I don't want to swim in my friend's pool...help me out here. (Trigger warning)

[rainbird2]

Three years ago, my dear friend's 3 year old son drowned in their backyard pool.  I came to their home after the incident and every day for the next week and a half to help with meals, funeral plans, etc.  We had a memorial service for him at our home a year later.

 

I am still not over what happened that day, and still cry when I pass the hospital where he was pronounced dead.  I still have horrible memories from the funeral.  I still have her son's bubbles in my kitchen cabinet.  I have not moved passed this loss, and I don't know how to move on.

 

All summer, she has invited our family over for a swim day.  I have had an excuse every time.  I need to tell her the truth, but I just can't bring myself to talk with her about it.  I know she wants us all to move on, but it's too hard for me.  I know it will help her with her own healing.  I don't know how to do it.  I can come to her house, but I just cannot swim in that pool. 

 

OK.  Please give me some advice on how to move on or how to proceed.  Going to dry my face now because I am crying.

 

 

[mom2bee]

Can you let your kids swim in the pool? Maybe you don't have to get in the pool at all, just let your kids get in.

Have you considered speaking to a counselor for your own grief :grouphug:

 

If its this hard for you, imagine the pain his actual parents are feeling. I can't think of a way to broach the topic, but I can imagine it going badly for a number of reasons if its done wrong.

 

When a person dies--it effects everyone who knew them. Your grief is valid, and I don't want to downplay that, but if you can't get in that pool but can allow your kids in the pool, then I would go and let the kids swim. I'd stand on the deck, lounge on a chair, buzz about the kitchen or help at the grill.

 

If you think that this is something that your friends need to do to help them move past their grief and help aid them on their healing journey then can you try to be there for them?

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

You might consider adding the word "Trigger" to your thread title. I thought this was going to be about hygiene, lack of supervision, drinking, bullying, or something else other than the death of a child.

 

I am so sorry for this terrible tragedy and loss.

 

I don't think I'd want to come out and say what I thought. I wouldn't want to interfere with the mother's attempt to make her yard a joyful place again. Because of that concern, I'd probably just continue to make excuses. The summer is nearly over, and you might feel differently next year, so just let it ride if you can.

 

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

You are still experiencing significant grief over this tragedy and you asked for help to move on. It sounds like to me that you are ready to heal and recognize you need help. Is it possible to seek professional help?

 

I had a friend whose mother died when he was 16. Every year in May (when she died) he would get very upset. Finally in his mid-40's, he went to a counselor. He also took meds for a while. Within just a few months, he no longer was upset with the memories of his mother. The counseling made a big difference in his life.

 

Please don't wait so long to get the help you need.

 

Best wishes

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Reefgazer]

I would go, but not go in the pool.  If she asks, tell her the truth, adding that you wanted to be there for her, but just cannot bring yourself to go in the pool and you hope she will understand.

[rainbird2]

mom2bee - I have two little ones who would need my help in the pool, so I can't avoid swimming.  Thank you for the suggestion, though.

 

Tibbie - I'm sorry about the trigger.  I updated the title, and thank you for the suggestion.  You are right, my friend is trying to re-establish her backyard as a place of joy.  It would be terrible for me to interfere with that, so perhaps I should just keep making excuses.  I am praying that I will feel differently next summer...

 

I want to ask her (but will not) how she was able to swim again.  I want to be OK swimming, but I know I will cry once I step in the pool.

[Farrar]

Since you know she's trying to reestablish the backyard and the pool as a place of joy, I think I'd just be honest. I'd just say, I've been putting you off because I still feel so sad when I think about what happened. I understand you want the backyard to become a place of family memories and happiness again, and I'm worried if we come over, I'll cry and be anxious the whole time which is not what I want for me or for you. Please keep inviting me because I hope I'll feel differently next year.

 

I don't think most people could ever be upset that you're still feeling grief for their loved one who passed away. If your kids are really little still, I'm guessing that as they grow up past that age it will be easier. Also, remember that she lives with the pool and a bigger burden of grief that is more pressing in a way - so she's been pushed to move past it in different ways. She may even be inviting you because she knows you feel this way and she wants you to also have the opportunity to make a new memory there. I wouldn't be surprised if she tells you that she also cries when she's there sometimes and that it's okay if you come and cry too.

[SKL]

Tough one.  I agree on being honest.  Maybe something like "I'm not ready."  I think it will be hard for your friend, but there really is no happy way to do this.

 

Maybe you could go over for a party but just stay out of the pool this time.  Or just dip your feet.  I think it's important for your friend that you eventually do get to the point of being ready.

 

Good for your friend for being strong enough to get to this point.  It must be terribly hard.  Personally I think I would fill in the pool with cement.  :(

[ErinE]

If she's a good friend, it's okay to tell her you're not ready; that you're happy to visit, but you can't get in the pool. I wouldn't go into detail, because it was her loss. Too much detail might give the wrong impression: that you think swimming in the pool is wrong.

 

I consider myself pretty stoic, but I react emotionally to children being abused or dying. I don't read news articles, I change television channels, and I stop watching movies if children are hurt. I understand you not wanting to go swimming in the pool where a little boy, your friend's child, died.

 

However, if I found myself in this situation, three years after the death, I would go. I would do my best to be there for my friend and hope I could find some enjoyment in our time together. The swim day request is perhaps part of her grieving process. She may want you there because you were such a good friend to her when she lost her child.

[Word Nerd]

If it were me, I would honor that request because it seems so important to her, especially since you said yourself it would help her to heal—and as hard as it would be, facing that fear might help you to move past it too. Talking about it with a counselor sounds like a good idea.

[NorthwestMom]

You are getting great advice, so I am just going to step in here with a bunch of hugs.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I would feel exactly like you in that situation. I hope you can find a comforting resolution.

[Gil]

I'll be "that guy" and say it: I think you are being selfish. I don't say this to be mean. I say it to be honest. I don't think you are trying to be selfish--but nevertheless, you are being completely and utterly selfish.

 

 

Its been 3 years since your dear friends sons drowned in his parents pool in their yard. That family has had to process and work through that grief and trying to not let one moment of trauma and grief make them prisoners in their own home and re-establish their house and yard as a home--a place for work, play, love, sorrow AND joy is a tremendously difficult thing for them to do. The fact that they are repeatedly inviting you says that your absence is hurting them.

 

I'm not sure how many other families and friends they've had out this summer, but they keep asking for YOU to come--you, who are supposed to be their dear friend.

 

I'm assuming that you have a child close in age to the one who passed away. So while you might cry when you pass the hospital and have horrible memories of THEIR sons funeral--you're child is alive. Their grief is greater, more potent and more permanent then your own. It seems like your absence/refusal to enter the pool is hurting their attempts to heal.

 

How would you feel if you were in great pain and a dear friend of yours had the pain-relieving balm that could perhaps bring you some relief, YET every time you asked them to bring it over and see if it worked, they told you "Sorry, rainbird, I want to bring the pain-relieving balm, really. But I just can't bear to see you in the pain while we try and apply it..."

 

See how empty and pathetic it feels?

 

Its been 3 years--get yourself some help and then go try and be a friend/

[QueenCat]

I don't think you should tell your friend that it's too hard for you. I can't imagine that, when she is going in the pool, hanging out there. She needs for life to be "normal" at this point, and that includes having the gang over. If this had happened a few months ago, I'd understand, but not at this point. I really don't say this to be mean, but I think it would be hurtful to her for you tell her that it's too hard for you. If you are having this hard of a time, this long afterwards, get some outside help, please.

[Guest]

Do not tell her your excuse. Frankly, as a mom who has buried a baby, I would be hurt beyond hurt if my friend said they "can't get over" the death, which is most assuredly far more horrible for her than you can possibly imagine. I am certain that her invitation to swim in the pool is an attempt to help her own healing. So, you can either lie for years to come, lie until she takes a hint, or go anyway and pretend your way through it.

 

BTW, I am not at all bothered by lies that are meant to comfort another human being. It is preferable to telling her the truth. She has to live in that yard where her child died. She has much more right than you to refuse, but she is trying to do the decent thing and make happy memories in that awful pool.

[Guest]

I'm sorry; I'm taking this personally, but I'm not done, here, because I know what it's like to be That Mom, whose baby died. It sucks. There is no escaping the judgement everyone has over what you do or don't do. So, I can tell you this: if your friend filled the pool with cement and never swam again, people would talk badly about her behind her back or right to her face, telling her that she *can't* avoid swimming and water forever just because of what happened. But if she tries to go forward in some kind of normal, if she tries to invite the people she *thinks* are her closest friends to heal her darkest demons about pools, she hears a pile of excuses from those friends or - worse, the real reason; that it is painful for the friend, that it is too sad.

 

There is no way to win when you suffer the unthinkable, and we, in the so-called "Civilized World" are atrociously inept and inexperienced in navigating grief, either for ourselves, or with others.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Is this turn of the conversation really necessary?

 

The majority has already said

 

1. not to burden the mother with this, and

2. that the OP should seek help for herself.

 

Do we have to start calling her selfish, and tell her how hurtful she is for feeling this way, when she has very carefully NOT shared her feelings with her friend? Do we have to assume so much about her, including the assumption that she's never lost a child, herself? Come on. Common sense should tell us that there is probably a reason why her grief is spinning out this way, something in her past if not a too-similar event.

 

The recommendation to get counseling is sufficient. Bashing is against board rules, I thought.

 

My two cents.

[zoobie]

I would come up with an honest alternate excuse. Swimming with two little non-swimmers is stressful, but you'd love to meet at the park or grab lunch.

 

Have you considered a therapist to help you process your grief? It sounds possibly as though you may have PTSD, or something similar that is affecting your life fairly significantly. :grouphug:

[AimeeM]

Is this turn of the conversation really necessary?

 

The majority has already said

 

1. not to burden the mother with this, and

2. that the OP should seek help for herself.

 

Do we have to start calling her selfish, and tell her how hurtful she is for feeling this way, when she has very carefully NOT shared her feelings with her friend? Do we have to assume so much about her, including the assumption that she's never lost a child, herself? Come on. Common sense should tell us that there is probably a reason why her grief is spinning out this way, something in her past if not a too-similar event.

 

The recommendation to get counseling is sufficient. Bashing is against board rules, I thought.

 

My two cents.

I'll add my same two cents to yours.

[KungFuPanda]

Going over may help you get past it.  Maybe just stick your feet in.  Be there for her, but tell her you're not quite ready to go in yet.  I'm sure she wouldn't be ready either if the pool wasn't part of her home.  It may be hard, but avoiding it hasn't gotten you past this.  It's time to try something uncomfortable.

[LucyStoner]

I am sorry that this is so intense for you 3 years later. I second the suggestion to get some professional help. Also, definitely don't tell your friend why. While you wouldn't mean it that way I think she would take it badly and you don't want to hurt her.

[Miss Mousie]

There is no way to win when you suffer the unthinkable, and we, in the so-called "Civilized World" are atrociously inept and inexperienced in navigating grief, either for ourselves, or with others.

 

[edited out most of quote in case you decide to delete for privacy some day]

 

All I wanted to do is offer you a whole mess of :grouphug:  :grouphug: :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  

[Gil]

OP, I'm sorry if I come across as insensitive or brash, I'm not judging you at all. "Peripheral" grief is hard because its not well understood as far as I know and most people in society aren't naturally inclined to sympathize with you, but if you feel sad about something then you feel sad. You have a right to your own emotions.

 

However after 3 years you may need to try and switch your focus (you've probably done this a dozen dozen times) but instead of focusing on how you feel about this situation maybe focus on the fact that your kids lost a friend and your friend lost her child. Do you want you're children to pick up your grieving habits? Do you want them to be crippled by death or held hostage by their grief? If not, then you need to model how to process this. Get help for yourself, talk about your grief for what it is.

 

IF you guys are really dear friends, then it should be okay to go--tell your friend that you just aren't ready to swim there but you would like to hang out with them by the pool. And even if you do begin to cry in her presence its not like she can't understand why. I'm sure she or her husband or her kids still have moments by the pool when they are over come with sadness. IF you happen to cry then can you excuse yourself to a private place and collect yourself? I think that you should probably try and go to the pool, as your normal coping mechanisms seem to be a big fail. Maybe revisiting the scene of the accident will help? You don't have to get in. If other adults are there, then perhaps your kids can swim without you needing to get in yourself.

 

Have you and your partner discussed this at all? What did they say?

 

 

[HeWillSoar]

I agree that some counseling might be needed to help you with your own grief.  There could be more as well, such as coping with possible anxiety that could be causing you to avoid this situation and avoid the pool.   I think your feelings are valid.  Maybe some help will get you over that hump so that you can move on and enjoy new times with your friend.  And when you are ready to go in the pool, wear some sunglasses and don't be ashamed if you cry.  :grouphug:

[El...]

What if you said to your friend, "Dear friend, I'm very afraid I'll cry.  I love you guys so much, and what happened still rips me open.  I know this is about you, not me, though."  And then see what she says. 

 

If I were your friend, I'd hug you and cry with you, and that would be ok.  It is ok to cry about terribly sad things.  It is ok to cry in the grocery store, in the park, in church, or in your shower when you are grieving.  I frankly howled in the shower recently over a loss from 10 years ago. 

 

If your friend's experience is giving you deep grief and YOU feel that it is too much for too long, by all means talk to someone.  I think things that attach fear, like the loss of a child, can linger and oppress. 

 

 

[rainbird2]

I'm sorry; I'm taking this personally, but I'm not done, here, because I know what it's like to be That Mom, whose baby died. It sucks. There is no escaping the judgement everyone has over what you do or don't do. So, I can tell you this: if your friend filled the pool with cement and never swam again, people would talk badly about her behind her back or right to her face, telling her that she *can't* avoid swimming and water forever just because of what happened. But if she tries to go forward in some kind of normal, if she tries to invite the people she *thinks* are her closest friends to heal her darkest demons about pools, she hears a pile of excuses from those friends or - worse, the real reason; that it is painful for the friend, that it is too sad.

 

There is no way to win when you suffer the unthinkable, and we, in the so-called "Civilized World" are atrociously inept and inexperienced in navigating grief, either for ourselves, or with others.

 

Quill, I am very sorry for you loss. 

 

After saying we are 'inept at navigating grief', do have any recommendations on how to do so?  That is exactly what I am asking...how to be sensitive and honest with my friend and how to help her (and myself) move on in this situation when I clearly do not know how to do so myself.  Any recommendations?

 

Again, I am sorry for your loss, and am truly sorry if you ever felt judged.  I would never blame my friend for the situation that happened.  It was an accident that she had no control over.

[rainbird2]

I appreciate everyone's advice (even those of you who think I am selfish...I appreciate your perspective.)

 

My family still has playdates with my friend and her other kids.  We go to their home for birthdays, playdates, bbq's, etc. all of the time, so we are in the backyard and that is not an issue for me.  She comes to my home quite a bit, too.  We just saw each other this week.  We talk about her son and the memories we have of him.  I just avoid any invitations to swim.

 

My friend and I are going on a mom's retreat together in a couple of weeks.  It's supposed to be a fun event for both of us with spa treatments and fancy dinners.  I am trying to decide if I should talk with her about this before our retreat, afterwards or at the retreat.  Probably not at the retreat... I hate that it is viewed as selfish to lie to her about not wanting to swim.  I genuinely do not want to hurt her, and I know the issue is me.  I need to move on.  I just cannot figure out how to get into the pool. 

 

I talk with DH about it all of the time.  He doesn't want to go swimming, either, and this man is not the emotional type.  We were both at their home after the accident.  We both saw their son after he had passed.  We had to make the phone calls to our other friends and neighbors to tell them what happened.  It was horrible.  Maybe I do have some sort of PTSD from this.  I guess I need to figure out how to deal with it so I can eventually go swimming over there.

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

Quill, I am very sorry for you loss. 

 

After saying we are 'inept at navigating grief', do have any recommendations on how to do so?  That is exactly what I am asking...how to be sensitive and honest with my friend and how to help her (and myself) move on in this situation when I clearly do not know how to do so myself.  Any recommendations?

 

Again, I am sorry for your loss, and am truly sorry if you ever felt judged.  I would never blame my friend for the situation that happened.  It was an accident that she had no control over.

 

I'm not Quill, but it sounds like your friend knows how to move along, so you don't need to take responsibility for managing that for her. 

 

If you think about moving along instead of moving on, does it help or change your perspective at all?

 

The first step for you, I think, is about accepting your emotions. Try to work on meeting your emotions without having emotions about your emotions, if that makes sense. If you are sad about this little bloke's death, say "Oh, it's you again Sadness. Sit down over there and have a doughnut or something, Hon." You will still be sad, but it will be easier than freaking out over sadness. When you can do this, what you are trying to do now will come more naturally. I think you're trying to skip steps. 

 

And I don't think you are being selfish.

[marbel]

:grouphug: :grouphug:   I'm not sure if anyone said this... I did read all the posts but maybe I missed it.

 

If you tell your friend why you can't get in the pool, she may see it as a judgment against herself and her family.  I can imagine the line of thinking: "wow, if my good friend is still so sad and can't get in the pool, what is wrong with me that I can enjoy it?" 

 

I know you would not mean it that way, and I don't know if she would take it that way.  But, I can imagine myself in that situation, and second-guessing my own actions and attitudes. 

 

And, I agree with Rosie.  Your friends seems to be moving along in the way that suits her and her family.  You are not responsible for helping her in that way - even though I can see why you would want to.  :grouphug:

[Stacia]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[rainbird2]

I'm not Quill, but it sounds like your friend knows how to move along, so you don't need to take responsibility for managing that for her. 

 

 

Maybe I need to clarify a bit...

 

Would swimming in my friend's pool help her create more positive memories?  Would NOT swimming in the pool, and telling her why, be a cause of pain for her?  I know she is grieving much better than I am.  I don't want to create more bad memories for her, does that make sense?  Do I need to swim in the pool for her benefit?  And, if so, how do I suck it up and jump in?  Or, do I not think about how she will react because she doesn't need my help with moving on?

Thanks for the reply, Rosie.  I will have to try to separate the emotions from the emotion...definitely not a step I have been trying to do. 

[mommymilkies]

:grouphug: I understand what you're asking.  I've been the peripheral friend and it's hard to know what to do and what to say.  Especially when you have a kid close to the same age.  You have some good advice here and I hope it works well for you. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I appreciate everyone's advice (even those of you who think I am selfish...I appreciate your perspective.)

 

My family still has playdates with my friend and her other kids.  We go to their home for birthdays, playdates, bbq's, etc. all of the time, so we are in the backyard and that is not an issue for me.  She comes to my home quite a bit, too.  We just saw each other this week.  We talk about her son and the memories we have of him.  I just avoid any invitations to swim.

 

My friend and I are going on a mom's retreat together in a couple of weeks.  It's supposed to be a fun event for both of us with spa treatments and fancy dinners.  I am trying to decide if I should talk with her about this before our retreat, afterwards or at the retreat.  Probably not at the retreat... I hate that it is viewed as selfish to lie to her about not wanting to swim.  I genuinely do not want to hurt her, and I know the issue is me.  I need to move on.  I just cannot figure out how to get into the pool. 

 

I talk with DH about it all of the time.  He doesn't want to go swimming, either, and this man is not the emotional type.  We were both at their home after the accident.  We both saw their son after he had passed.  We had to make the phone calls to our other friends and neighbors to tell them what happened.  It was horrible.  Maybe I do have some sort of PTSD from this.  I guess I need to figure out how to deal with it so I can eventually go swimming over there.

The issue appears to be the pool itself since you do go in the backyard etc.  Since it is at her house she's had the opportunity at least to do it slowly and privately.  To stick a toe or foot in.  To sit and cry a bit.  To get all the way in.  To cry some more.  If that was helpful to her.  (or to just jump right in if that was better for her.)  I think the difficulty is that this isn't your house and pool.  You won't have the privacy to do that.  It will be a social gathering, even if it is with a good friend and her family.  I don't have any solutions to offer you but perhaps seeing that she had that opportunity to deal with it in a way that you haven't, might give you some more insight into how she can do this and you can't right now.  

[Laurie4b]

Maybe I need to clarify a bit...

 

Would swimming in my friend's pool help her create more positive memories?  Would NOT swimming in the pool, and telling her why, be a cause of pain for her?  I know she is grieving much better than I am.  I don't want to create more bad memories for her, does that make sense?  Do I need to swim in the pool for her benefit?  And, if so, how do I suck it up and jump in?  Or, do I not think about how she will react because she doesn't need my help with moving on?

Thanks for the reply, Rosie.  I will have to try to separate the emotions from the emotion...definitely not a step I have been trying to do. 

 

One of the hard things about grief is that people do it differently, even people who love each other dearly. It is okay to be at different points in what you can and cannot deal with. However, not understanding this and compensating for it is the reason that trauma can strain relationships. You do many things with her. The pool can't be one of those right now. There are likely others for whom the pool is okay, but who maybe would not be able to do some of the things you do to help your friend. 

 

It sounds possible to me that you are not just dealing with grief but PTSD.  I think it would be helpful to see a counselor and just see if that is what is going on. If it is, that can be helpful to explain to your friend. 

 

Are you nursing or pregnant by any chance? Those hormones do a number on you when confronted with trauma and children. 

 

I think it would be fine to say that you are just not ready for that one thing. That you've tried to get yourself in that place, but haven't been able to yet. That implies no judgment. You can say that you wish that you could be caught up with her in this one thing, but you are not. It sounds like you have been there for her in many ways and over years; it's not like you are wimping out of walking through this pain with her.  (Many people fade after a few weeks and then judge the griever for not "moving forward." 

 

Absolutely do not tell her during the retreat. That would be awful for her if it triggers her. She won't have the same options she would have at home. 

 

My best advice is to make an appt with a therapist who deals with grief. It may just need to be a one time appt to get some perspective, see if it is PTSD, etc. and get some advice on how to overcome the dread of the pool if that is what you want to do. (If it's  PTSD or you need help to be able to do the pool then of course, it will be more than a one-off appt. But often just getting information from someone who understands the dynamics can be very helpful.) 

 

ETA: the way you are describing your reaction to the pool sounds similar to the way people feel when they have a phobia. There are certain cognitive behavioral therapies that can help you work up to that if that is what you want to do. 

[GinaPagnato]

Maybe I need to clarify a bit...

 

Would swimming in my friend's pool help her create more positive memories? I imagine it would, since she's asked you to many times. Would NOT swimming in the pool, and telling her why, be a cause of pain for her?Depends on your friend. If she is coping well with her grief, it may rattle her a bit to hear about how difficult it is for you, but in light of your friendship, she may be handle it well. If, on the other hand, you feel she's still in a fragile place and may not do well with your grief, don't mention it.  I know she is grieving much better than I am.  I don't want to create more bad memories for her, does that make sense? It make sense, and I think you have a kind and loving heart for being so considerate of her feelings. On the other hand, I don't think if you do get upset, that it will create a bad memory for her. She may be surprised at your emotional rawness, though. Do I need to swim in the pool for her benefit? Personally, I would do it for her. If I thought I was going to come undone and lose it in front of her, maybe not. Unless, of course, your relationship is one in which this would be okay, too. I can think of a couple of close friends who I could do this with and for whom it wouldn't be excruciatingly painful. And, if so, how do I suck it up and jump in? Maybe sit on the edge and dangle your feet initially. Then slowly make your way in.  Or, do I not think about how she will react because she doesn't need my help with moving on? It doesn't sound like she needs your help moving on. It's more that she wants you to join her in moving on. I would do it.

Thanks for the reply, Rosie.  I will have to try to separate the emotions from the emotion...definitely not a step I have been trying to do. 

 

 

[Guest]

Quill, I am very sorry for you loss.

 

After saying we are 'inept at navigating grief', do have any recommendations on how to do so? That is exactly what I am asking...how to be sensitive and honest with my friend and how to help her (and myself) move on in this situation when I clearly do not know how to do so myself. Any recommendations?

 

Again, I am sorry for your loss, and am truly sorry if you ever felt judged. I would never blame my friend for the situation that happened. It was an accident that she had no control over.

You know, I was pretty ungracious, so I apologize for that. In an odd coincidence, just before I saw your post, I was reading a blog post from a woman whose son died in a car accident. So I had literally, moments ago, just read about how bizarrely self-centered and judgmental people can be towards parents who lose their child and it resinated with me; I remember that and it is a grave injustice. So a lot of that emotion got transferred in on your post.

 

I don't rescind my advice, though...I really think you should go. I remember feeling so abandoned by people whom I thought would be there for me and your post reminded me of it. One SIL said to me, defensively, "Well, you know, I lost a niece when your daughter died..." Yeah, well, so? Obviously, my commisseration is with the mother because it is doubtful anyone has a greater right to pain than the mother and anyone else's secondary grief seems like very small potatoes by comparison.

 

I have more of a meta-complaint against our society in general, because we really don't *do* death and we don't like people who are a mess. Americans especially love a rise-from-the-ashes story; it just doesn't make a good story to be messed up and stay messed up for a long while.

 

There is a book called "The Art of Comfort," but truly, such books are rare, and it is rare for people to read them proactively. Few people will even read such a book when they have a good reason to, much less just to have some insight into how to be a friend to the grieving. There are a lot of websites and blogs that speak to this topic, though; it would not hurt to google such topics as "Helping a friend whose child died."

 

In the specific instance you describe in the OP, my immediate instinct is to feel that your friend specifically has invited *you* to the pool because you do know what happened, you do know how terribly fraught with bad vibes the pool must be for her. She is most likely asking you to be the friend she can trust with her most vulnerable wound and to do that, you must go to the pool.

 

Similarly, I did not want certain people to come to the hospital when I had my baby that followed the baby that died. OTOH, there were a couple friends whom I did want to come. It was my way of asking them if they could navigate with me my most vulnerable fears, to go back to the scene where it had all gone so horribly wrong the time before.

 

It may be too much projection on my part, but I was imagining your friend trying to find if you can be that friend and to hear that the answer is no, you can't is a type of further loss. It is this further loss that complicated my own grief and it is the reason I would so much rather you learn how to navigate grief than fail to use this awful experience as a chance to grow as a person.

[ThisIsTheDay]

 

I talk with DH about it all of the time.  He doesn't want to go swimming, either, and this man is not the emotional type.  We were both at their home after the accident.  We both saw their son after he had passed.  We had to make the phone calls to our other friends and neighbors to tell them what happened.  It was horrible.  Maybe I do have some sort of PTSD from this.  I guess I need to figure out how to deal with it so I can eventually go swimming over there.

 

I stopped reading after this post.  I just want to say that I get it.  No advice for you, but I were at this point that you are, I would not be able to just go sit poolside or dip my toes in.  It would not be about GETTING into the pool, the grief would get me just being near the pool.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:  to you, and I know that you can continue to be a loving support to your friend, whether or not it involves her pool. 

 

I'm so sorry, both about what you've experienced, watched your friend and family experience, and about what you're struggling with now.

[CAMom]

I, too, have lost a child and wanted to say that Quill expressed my thoughts.

[krsmom]

I am sorry that you are going through this. Grief is so very different for each person. It is okay to feel the way you do. 

 

I lost a child when he was four years old. It is hard for everyone. I've read everyone's advice and I really like Farrar's. To me, it appears honest and nonjudgmental.

 

The only thing I would add is to tell your friend that you realize you need counseling and that you plan on getting help. Then do so. It is important for your relationship and for your children to move through this (notice, I didn't say get passed this, big difference). 

 

You seem to be a wonderful, thoughtful friend. I think it may be time to treat yourself with the same care and attention you have poured into your friend.

 

Best wishes

Edited August 15, 2015 by krsmom

[Little Nyssa]

I have put The Art of Comfort on reserve at the library.

((Hugs))

[Rosie_0801]

Maybe I need to clarify a bit...

 

Would swimming in my friend's pool help her create more positive memories?  Would NOT swimming in the pool, and telling her why, be a cause of pain for her?  I know she is grieving much better than I am.  I don't want to create more bad memories for her, does that make sense?  Do I need to swim in the pool for her benefit?  And, if so, how do I suck it up and jump in?  Or, do I not think about how she will react because she doesn't need my help with moving on?

Thanks for the reply, Rosie.  I will have to try to separate the emotions from the emotion...definitely not a step I have been trying to do. 

 

You can't suck it up and jump in, so don't try until you can.

 

Really, we can only guess at what your friend does and doesn't need. There are people in this thread who have lost children and they don't all hold the same opinion. Life can be complicated.  :grouphug:

[Joules]

 

 

I talk with DH about it all of the time.  He doesn't want to go swimming, either, and this man is not the emotional type.  We were both at their home after the accident.  We both saw their son after he had passed.  We had to make the phone calls to our other friends and neighbors to tell them what happened.  It was horrible.  Maybe I do have some sort of PTSD from this.  I guess I need to figure out how to deal with it so I can eventually go swimming over there.

 

This is it...you do have some lasting effect from the trauma.  I'm sure she got help and support.  She also has to live in that house every single day, so has progressed farther in healing.  If you are the person who supported her at the time and helped her through the grief, you may be struggling as a caregiver that is not taking care of your own needs.

 

Though I was practically incoherent for three months, I think it took my mom longer to heal after the death of my dd (15 years ago), because she had to be strong and take care of me and ds.  She postponed her dealing with it taking care of me.  I think (in far hindsight) the kindest thing you can do for your friend is deal with your trauma.  A counselor, pastor, Stephen's Minister, maybe even just a removed friend or a book, could help move on for the sake of your friend (and yourself.)  You may never be able to go in the pool, but I think it would be kind to try to work through it to see if you are able.

 

As far as telling her, I would have been fine with someone sharing that three years out, but everyone is different.  I'm not sure it is a good idea.  It may cycle her into another bad spell.  If you can heal without the conversation, I think that might be better.

 

*ETA - I was rereading and actually used the phrase "get over" a death, which is in no sense what a grieving mother does..."comes to term with it" is I think the best case goal.  

[StephanieZ]

I'd just keep making excuses. In cases of grief, I give weight to whoever has the "primary" loss, in this case the parents. So, I'd do anything I *could* to avoid complicating her grieving or healing. So, I'd make excuses, lie, whatever would be easiest for her. 

 

If practical (i.e., you don't go to other swimming places that she'd know about), then maybe just tell her you've developed an allergy to chlorine, or recurrent UTIs, or some other thing that makes it reasonable that you can't swim. Summer is nearly over, so hopefully a few more excuses can get you through this summer. 

 

Then, since this is about her more than you, I'd try to figure out how to get past swimming in her pool by next summer. Perhaps some counseling might help you, as you've surely suffered a great loss. If you can't get past it by next summer on your own, and next summer presents the same problem, then maybe next spring, find a quiet time, take your friend to lunch, and during dessert, carefully tell her (maybe with guidance from your counselor on wording), that you SO don't want to make her healing harder or her grief more painful, but that you just can't swim in her pool, as, for you, it is just to sad a reminder of her terrible loss. Hopefully that one short conversation will be all it takes, but before I'd do that, I'd do my level best to "move past it". 

((((hugs)))) I am so very sorry for your pain and the loss of your tiny friend. 

[rainbird2]

Hi Everyone,

 

I have received a wealth of good advice from your replies and I cannot thank you enough for your advice.  I can imagine how especially difficult my thread was for those of you who have lost children.  To you, I am deeply grateful for your words.  I apologize for any pain my thread has caused.

 

I think that I haven't had a chance to visit my friend's pool and come to terms with what happened there.  (Jean in Newcastle, I never thought of that before.)  I think the fear of visiting the pool again, along with the pressure to hold it together since other people (including my children) would be there, and bringing my two little ones in the pool (they remind me of my friend's child), has been too much for me to bear.  I think the first step is to visit my friend's pool without my family or any other friends around. 

 

So the plan for now is to:

 

- Visit a grief counselor.

 

- Avoid the pool for the rest of the summer without bringing in details with my friend.  I think this would be best for her.

 

- Sometime this fall, have a conversation with my friend.  I will be honest with her and let her know that I haven't taken the time to grieve her son's death.  I will tell her that I want to swim again, and I am making a goal to swim next summer.  (I'm thinking of Farrar's post and how your words were honest and not judgmental.)

 

- Last, I'm keeping in mind something a friend IRL said to me about my friend's pool:  It isn't the same water.  He did not drown in the water I'm swimming in.  I know that's minor, but it's something I can hold on to and something to keep my anxiety in check. 

 

Again, thanks to everyone for your honesty and guidance.  I know I will move forward and will be a better friend to my friend for doing so.  If you are they praying type, please pray for peace and healing in this situation.

 

 

[DawnM]

I am sorry you are dealing with this.  I realize I am late to the thread.  

 

I am glad you are looking at visiting a grief counselor.  I really hope you find a good one and it can be of help to deal with some of the feelings you are experiencing.

 

One way for you to deal with is also to teach your own children to swim and to swim well.   It is very important that young children know how to swim.  Please don't misunderstand me, I know that swimming lessons don't provide a guarantee that something like this will never happen again, but it does provide your children with the tools to handle many pool situations.

 

Hugs,

 

Dawn

[madteaparty]

I really don't think you should burden your friend with your grief, she has her own to carry. I think being a friend means carrying your own somehow.

[cera2]

What about asking your friend if there is a time you could go to her pool alone.  Swim in it again for the first time by yourself, without anyone (even her) around so that you can process the experience as you need to.  It sounds like the actual act of getting into the pool is becoming more of an issue rather than less as time goes on.

[Guest]

Hi Everyone,

 

I have received a wealth of good advice from your replies and I cannot thank you enough for your advice. I can imagine how especially difficult my thread was for those of you who have lost children. To you, I am deeply grateful for your words. I apologize for any pain my thread has caused.

 

I think that I haven't had a chance to visit my friend's pool and come to terms with what happened there. (Jean in Newcastle, I never thought of that before.) I think the fear of visiting the pool again, along with the pressure to hold it together since other people (including my children) would be there, and bringing my two little ones in the pool (they remind me of my friend's child), has been too much for me to bear. I think the first step is to visit my friend's pool without my family or any other friends around.

 

So the plan for now is to:

 

- Visit a grief counselor.

 

- Avoid the pool for the rest of the summer without bringing in details with my friend. I think this would be best for her.

 

- Sometime this fall, have a conversation with my friend. I will be honest with her and let her know that I haven't taken the time to grieve her son's death. I will tell her that I want to swim again, and I am making a goal to swim next summer. (I'm thinking of Farrar's post and how your words were honest and not judgmental.)

 

- Last, I'm keeping in mind something a friend IRL said to me about my friend's pool: It isn't the same water. He did not drown in the water I'm swimming in. I know that's minor, but it's something I can hold on to and something to keep my anxiety in check.

 

Again, thanks to everyone for your honesty and guidance. I know I will move forward and will be a better friend to my friend for doing so. If you are they praying type, please pray for peace and healing in this situation.

Rainbird, I think your strategies are sound. One thing I want to point out, because I feel like you aren't realizing this, is that most probably, your living child the age of her child that died is difficult for her. Though everyone grieves differently, this is most often the case: seeing other people happily interact with their living children can feel like a stabbing pain in the heart.

 

When my baby died, two of my SILs had babies, too. My nephew was born thirteen hours before my daughter was born. So many innocuous things brought a cascade of agony in my heart and I would think, "I'll never rock my baby to sleep...I'll never sing Happy Birthday to my child..." Maybe your friend's experience is different, but I would imagine it is a herculean task for her to even invite your family to swim.

[rainbird2]

Rainbird, I think your strategies are sound. One thing I want to point out, because I feel like you aren't realizing this, is that most probably, your living child the age of her child that died is difficult for her. Though everyone grieves differently, this is most often the case: seeing other people happily interact with their living children can feel like a stabbing pain in the heart.

 

When my baby died, two of my SILs had babies, too. My nephew was born thirteen hours before my daughter was born. So many innocuous things brought a cascade of agony in my heart and I would think, "I'll never rock my baby to sleep...I'll never sing Happy Birthday to my child..." Maybe your friend's experience is different, but I would imagine it is a herculean task for her to even invite your family to swim.

 

Thank you, Quill.  My friend and I both were pregnant a few months after her son's passing.  She and I both have 2 year olds, and her little one swims in their pool all of the time.  I think she has had time to make peace with the pool and I have not.  I need to do so so I can move forward like she has been able to do.  I do think that it is a herculean feat for her to watch my dd grow up.  Her son that passed away and my dd were both play mates.

 

It's hard all around.  I am just trying to figure out my part and how to be a good friend to her.  I really appreciate your perspective.  It's helping me think through these things.

[JulieA97]

I think you have gotten some good advice and have a solid plan.  So no advice from me-just that in a small way, I understand.  When I was young, we had a close family friend whose son drowned in a family pool (not theirs, a relatives they were visiting).  Even that long ago, I am still affected by it.  I am nuts around water and put my son in swimming lessons the first second I could.  I insisted he learn to swim early and swim well.  I also will not give him a bath unless 2 adults are in the house.  I refuse to look at any houses that have pools, or even that have neighbors with pools.  A friends cousin drowned and this friend does the same things I do.  Its bound to change you, especially since you were there right after and its still fairly recent.

 

So no advice, just understanding and hugs. 

[Suzanne in ABQ]

 

 

The longer you don't go, the bigger an obstacle it will get. 

 

Just a thought - maybe you could have your own personal 'goodbye' ceremony for this child. Take the bubbles out of the kitchen cabinet, go into the garden and blow them. Imagine each bubble as whatever helps you - love travelling into the ether, the terrible memories of his death disappearing...whatever speaks to you. Explain to him that going in the pool doesn't mean you've forgotten him. Plant something in his memory. 

 

 

Sadie's post along with a previous one sparked an idea in my head.  Perhaps it is the public nature of these gatherings that makes you so uncomfortable.  Perhaps, before you go to a pool party at your friend's house, you need to have your own private ceremony of sorts to help you say goodbye to your little friend, and help bring you some closure.  

 

It sounds like you are close to your friend, and she wants to pull you into the circle of healing.  She would probably be comfortable having you in her yard all by yourself.  Consider asking her for access to her yard when no one will be home.  Take her little boy's bubbles from your cabinet, go over to her yard, and spend a couple hours there, by yourself.  Take your time, talk to the little guy, remember him, blow some bubbles and imagine him popping them, dip your toes in the water, and blow some more bubbles.  Take as much time as you need, and as you are comfortable, slowly make your way into the water.  You'll be all by yourself, so you can cry, or laugh, or just reflect or pray.  

 

Of course, if you think this would be dangerous for any reason, speak to a grief counselor before trying it.  Or, you might take one person with you, someone who will be understanding, and patient above all.  But do find a way to work through this.   You have been crippled by this grief for so long...

:grouphug: