Are there really people who are anti-adoption??

[PeacefulChaos]

So maybe I'm totally clueless or naive - but I just saw something today that spoke about people who are anti-adoption, who think that kids are just as well off in foster care or institutions as they are being adopted.  

Is this for real?  Do some people really think that?

Why?  :001_huh:

[Scarlett]

I lived next door to a man...he is 91 now.....and he spent his first 14 years in an orphanage. He was then taken out by an aunt and uncle in another state. He speaks fondly of his life in the orphanage and he didn't want to leave. He also was very unhappy with the aunt and uncle who I think used him as slave labor basically. He joined the navy the day he was able to....at 18 I guess.

 

He thinks orphanages have gotten a bum rap. He has even written articles about it.

[Flowing Brook]

nm

[Plink]

Kara, Can you reference the source that you are talking about? It may influence the responses you get.

 

Adoption can be wonderful, but it can also be traumatic. As with everything it certainly needs to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

[Farrar]

In light of that heartbreaking series of articles about the children, mostly adopted from overseas, being shuttled from one family to another and becoming victims of abuse, I saw a number of people say that maybe overseas adoption should be banned or at least reconsidered.

[Ottakee]

I have heard that some Bill Gothard people are so so on adoption but not really for it either.

 

I am an adoptive mom so very for adoption. There are, however, some kids that I honestly think would be better off in an orphanage, treatment type situation than being adopted into a typical home.

[Janie Grace]

Some people think overseas adoption is ethnocentric (the idea that "life is better in America") or is at least careless in the way it severs a child's ties with his/her home country/ethnicity/heritage. Some feel the same way about transracial domestic adoption.

 

Bill Gothard thinks adoption is dangerous because of generational curses or some such nonsense. 

[PeacefulChaos]

Kara, Can you reference the source that you are talking about? It may influence the responses you get.

 

Adoption can be wonderful, but it can also be traumatic. As with everything it certainly needs to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

It popped up in my FB news feed.  I think it was an adoption page or something, suggested for me (since they do that now.  :glare: ).  

I can see where definitely if a kid gets mistreated that's not cool (not trying to sound flippant), but a blanket statement of being 'anti-adoption' is just something that I've never heard before.  

[Seasider]

I know some people who feel this way. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with their theology, but they have implied they question the mental stability of adoptees.

 

Very sad to hear them speak this way.

[KrissiK]

Some people are. I knew an older man (relative of a relative) who, when he found out we were adopting, told our relatives that we were going to be in for trouble because adopted kids turn out to be juvenile delinquents.

Whatever.

[sewingmama]

Yes there are. From what I've seen they have two main arguments..

 

1. They cite all the cases where adopted children where abused or killed by their adoptive parents

2. They say it is preferable for a child to remain in their own culture (overseas adoption).

 

They are also super against large families adopting or people adopting multiple kids....they call it "kid collecting".

 

Honestly someone needs to take them to a Russian special needs orphanage for one day and then ask them again whether it is better for the kids to remain in their own culture.

[JustEm]

I think adoption can be a wonderful thing but it can also be a terrible thing if you do it for the wrong reason or if the adoption agency you go through is doing it for the wrong reasons. 

[Spryte]

Yes, I have met some anti-adoption people.  It made me scratch my head, too.  Not people who are anti-adoption because they are concerned about children being mistreated, or taken away from their heritage (their concern was about domestic adoption), but about all adoption in general.  Their feeling, I think, was that children should stay in their family of birth, even if there is abuse or neglect.  That the blood connection transcends all manner of evil, no matter what the birthfamily does to a child.  That adoptive families are never "families."  ...You know what?  I can't repeat the rest of the garbage these ignorant people spouted.  It was sick.  Obviously, there are times when adoption is beautiful, and times when it is full of grief.  I try to chalk some of the anti-adoption talk from this particular couple up to their grief.  Honestly, I never knew there were "anti-adoption" people or groups until meeting these people either.

[FaithManor]

Some people think overseas adoption is ethnocentric (the idea that "life is better in America") or is at least careless in the way it severs a child's ties with his/her home country/ethnicity/heritage. Some feel the same way about transracial domestic adoption.

 

Bill Gothard thinks adoption is dangerous because of generational curses or some such nonsense. 

Yes, Bill Gothard does preach this and many followers do believe in generational curses and attachment disorders as sin or even representing demon possession.

 

My father in law was adamantly opposed to adoption.

[DawnM]

I don't even know if I can stay in this thread if it goes the way of people being anti-adoption.  I joined a group called B*stard Nation for about 4 days.......that was the most angry, bitter group of adoptees I have EVER met.  Their premise is that all mothers were coerced into giving their babies away.   

 

I am an adoptee AND an adoptive parent.  

 

I posted on B*astard Nation that I had the most amazing son through adoption.  The responses I got were hateful.  One woman said, "So, you get to be living the dream while his real mother lives the nightmare.  How lucky are you now?"

 

Dawn

[kewb]

I know a fair amount of people who view adoption as babysitting someone else's kid for 18 years. 

[Spryte]

I don't even know if I can stay in this thread if it goes the way of people being anti-adoption.  I joined a group called B*stard Nation for about 4 days.......that was the most angry, bitter group of adoptees I have EVER met.  Their premise is that all mothers were coerced into giving their babies away.   

 

I am an adoptee AND an adoptive parent.  

 

I posted on B*astard Nation that I had the most amazing son through adoption.  The responses I got were hateful.  One woman said, "So, you get to be living the dream while his real mother lives the nightmare.  How lucky are you now?"

 

Dawn

 

:grouphug: Yikes.  

 

DH is an adoptee and we are adoptive parents, too.  

 

I know just where you're coming from here.

[Scarlett]

I am not anti adoption. But my former neighbor made me think about orphanages in a different way.

[Laura Corin]

My mother isn't anti-adoption as such, but she doesn't seem to see it as a complete joining of the family.  She always refers to my cousin as her sister's 'adopted daughter' (rather than 'daughter'), and didn't include her on the family tree that she sketched.  I carefully refer to my cousin in a more inclusive way, but it's clear that my cousin doesn't really 'count' to my mother.

 

In her case, I think that she felt resentment towards her sister, who was the pretty, good younger sister.  Her doing what my mother considers an ostentatiously virtuous thing and adopting after having three biological children just increased the resentment.  She rarely sees my cousin (who lives in a different part of the country) so I don't think that my cousin has any idea.  I hope she hasn't seen the family tree.

 

L

[LostSurprise]

I've only seen this from the older generation and only in private. 

 

What I've seen is an expression of RAD seen from a distance. The people I've seen express this opinion never say it out loud until someone in their family is starting adoption procedures, then the negative opinion comes out. What they've seen is that some adoptive kids have trouble attaching, there was no medical or psychological diagnosis or therapy for that, so it looked like adopting kids could be damaging to an existing family. Most of the people I know with this opinion are not abusive with this opinion, it comes out when they are worried about someone they care about. 

 

I can't fault that experience. There are kids who never get over that trauma. Unfortunately, that point of view doesn't include all of the adoption experience. 

 

 

[OnTheBrink]

I think people adopt overseas because it can, in some cases, be easier than trying to adopt in the US. I have friends who tried to adopt here but were repeatedly told they were too old (in their 40's, after years and years of trying to conceive). They eventually adopted out of Romania two boys who are biological brothers. They were in an orphanage and didn't even know about each other. Now they're strapping young men and I don't believe anyone's ever treated them as if they weren't part of their family. 

 

I don't personally know anyone who's anti-adoption. I can't fathom why anyone would adopt and not treat the child as any other child born into the family. I can't fathom why anyone would think a foster care situation would be better than a forever home and family. I'm not against foster care at all, but I'd imagine it would never feel permanent to child to be in a foster home, even a wonderful, loving foster home. 

[Word Nerd]

I remember reading a blog post a few years ago that held that view. The comment thread and links to other similar views made me realize it was not an uncommon opinion, at least in some circles online.

[Murphy101]

I lived next door to a man...he is 91 now.....and he spent his first 14 years in an orphanage. He was then taken out by an aunt and uncle in another state. He speaks fondly of his life in the orphanage and he didn't want to leave. He also was very unhappy with the aunt and uncle who I think used him as slave labor basically. He joined the navy the day he was able to....at 18 I guess.

He thinks orphanages have gotten a bum rap. He has even written articles about it.

My husbands paternal grandmother and her two siblings were raised in an orphanage in Texas and they grew up very close and with mostly okay memories of it. Her mother died and her father dropped them off there and was never heard from again.

 

They didn't want to be adopted and people willing to adopt 2 girls and a boy all well past the cute baby phase were pretty slim pickins anyways. (This was approx Great Depression times too.) All three of them have commented that they don't understand how foster homes could be better than a decent orphanage. The orphanage received church patronage (baptist), had a playground, many people on staff and no worries about where they might be next week.

 

I'm not anti adoption.

 

However, I do think that every mother or father who wants to keep his or her baby should get help to do so.

[Dahliarw]

I'm very much pro adoption in most cases.  That being said, there are definitely some ethical issues around adoption that can make things dicey.  There are kids who could, with support, stay with their own families, but who are taken away (just do some googling and you'll find cases of infants removed by CPS that may not be justified since Caucasian infants are very highly sought after - yes babies are illegally sold even in modern times).  I do believe sometimes women are coerced into give up their children too - though I do think in modern times this is less of an issue than it was back in the 1950s.  Then there is the whole dilemma that this child has a whole other family out there they do not know about (I have a personal adopted friend who really struggles with not knowing who her birth family is).  So while I wouldn't say "all adoption is bad", I would say that there are ethics surrounding adoption that should be looked into that one should consider when looking at adopting.

[Scarlett]

My husbands paternal grandmother and her two siblings were raised in an orphanage in Texas and they grew up very close and with mostly okay memories of it. Her mother died and her father dropped them off there and was never heard from again.

 

They didn't want to be adopted and people willing to adopt 2 girls and a boy all well past the cute baby phase were pretty slim pickins anyways. (This was approx Great Depression times too.) All three of them have commented that they don't understand how foster homes could be better than a decent orphanage. The orphanage received church patronage (baptist), had a playground, many people on staff and no worries about where they might be next week.

 

I'm not anti adoption.

 

However, I do think that every mother or father who wants to keep his or her baby should get help to do so.

I believe my neighbor had siblings in the orphanage too. He was only 6 months old when left there.....and he listed everything you did as the pros.....he was happy there. He had relationships with the staff...he felt loved and cared for.

[Laurie4b]

I am pro-adoption, but there are some problems with it as it currently exists.

 

I know many, many adopted families with beautiful outcomes. I know a couple with living nightmares.

 

Having worked professionally with kids with RAD, some (not all) of them  are more comfortable in group care (ie well run orphange) than in a family. When placed with a family instead, they can do great damage to the family and not be helped much themselves. So it makes more sense to me to have that as an option than to say that none should be adopted. No one should adopt an older child without being prepared for the reality of the nightmare of RAD though.

 

I think there can be problems with families getting almost addicted to adopting in super-huge families. I think workers are sometimes desperate for placement for kids who are hard -to -adopt, that they overlook warning signals. I don't think there are necessarily problems with all large adoptive families.

 

I have seen problems with transracial adoptions as kids get to be teens or leave home for college. Sometimes there is a choice a child is forced to make between parents and  ethnic peer group. Sometimes they choose peer group. It's very painful when that happens. Most transracial adoptions work out fine.

 

There is not enough support for families post-adoption, especially for families whose kids have attachment disorders.

 

There are some ethnic groups that consider adoption very negatively as part of their cultural view.

 

I have heard some older people remark on adoption and adopted kids negatively. I've not heard anyone middle-aged or younger do so. I think there were more stereotypes some years ago.

[Excelsior! Academy]

I am against coercion. 

 

I have adopted siblings, older and younger, and watched my older (adopted) sister get pregnant and adopt out at sixteen.  I am raising another sister's children in a private kinship agreement.  While it is not a final adoption, it is similar, yet not necessarily permanent.  I also watched the latter sister adopt out.  Obviously I am not anti-adoption.  What I have experienced has given me pause that adoption may not be the best in every situation.  Adoption seems to be marketed to young un-wed girls, especially from Christian circles.  I have no problem with a young girl who is pregnant and is choosing adoption to have that option.  Heck, I WAS that girl.  I was a very immature 20 years old when I got pregnant with dd, while I did choose to get married, I did consider all options.   I DO have a problem with marketing adoption (as well as abortion) as the only option and with no regrets or lasting emotions, as if you go away for a few months, have the baby and *bam* everything is back to normal.  The child has a happy upbringing, you have your youth, everyone sings Kum-by-Yah.  Gag!  It is a very emotional decision for everyone involved and one that shouldn't be taken lightly, even if it is the right one.  There are emotions attached.  Consequences to be considered such as RAD, FAS, etc.  These are real and need to be considered.  It can be very right and it can be very wrong.  I have seen adoption done wrongly and done very well.  It is ridiculous to say a child's future is limited just because they weren't raised by blood relatives or people of the same ethnicity.  Ridiculous.  If a child is born to parents in circumstances that are deemed not ideal to those same parents due to young age, financial status, etc. or if that children's parents are deceased, or God forbid, abusive, I am thankful that there is a system in place to allow those children to be raised in a family.  Adoption is a wonderful thing. 

[Excelsior! Academy]

I have a friend who is donor-conceived but only found out about it a few years back. She was relieved at first, then confused, then angry... and she started blogging about her feelings and her search for her biological father. (She didn't find him.) Once she started the blog, she got in touch with all kinds of other donor-conceived people and adoptees as well. 

 

By reading their comments and clicking on the links to their blogs, I found out that some people are extremely opposed to donor conception and adoption. The adopted folks had wonderful relationships with their adoptive parents, they mostly said, but they were angry that they lost legally-recognized kinship with their bio family — birth mom and dad, but also grandparents, uncles, aunts, etc. This anger mainly seemed to come from the need to understand where they come from. My friend, (donor-conceived, so grew up with bio mom and social dad) wondered whether her love for literature, her facial shape, her food tastes, etc came from bio dad, for instance. Most of these folks were not anti-adoption as such, but wanted more clarity that involved keeping their original birth certificate, and maybe adding adoptive parents on there while making their biological origins clear as well. 

 

Others are totally anti-adoption — not from an "adopted kids are damaged goods" perspectives, but from a human rights perspective. They believe private newborn adoptions in the US are basically baby-selling, and many want to disallow adoption completely and have a guardianship arrangement instead. I've never heard about anyone opposing giving loving homes to kids in need. It's the adoption industry that is problematic to them. 

 

This.  Especially the bolded.

 

 

I do have mixed thoughts about donor-conceived rights.  Some of what you have described about donor children I have seen first hand with children from closed adoptions.  It seems ingrained into most people to search out there roots no matter their upbringing.  You can have an excellent childhood yet yearn for your biological parents. 

[jillian]

We are in the process of researching adoption and saving. I haven't met anyone adamantly opposed to adoption but I have met people who feel it is necessary to share their "horror" stories that they have heard from so and so. Do I expect it all to be perfect? No I don't. Are we realistically researching what RAD is and what that may mean? Yes. Will we have resources lined up before and after the adoption? Yep. Many many people only hear the horrible stories of adoption not the good ones. We hear about the woman who poured hot sauce down her son's mouth. The family who put their kid on a plane back to Russia. The children adopted from Africa who were abused and beaten and died. We don't hear about the positive beautiful outcomes. Biological birth isn't any guarantee against having a "delinquent" or a "criminal" or someone "emotionally disturbed". I don't get that argument.

[Mergath]

I agree with Dialectica's statement. While adoption itself can be a wonderful thing, the industry is corrupt and needs some serious reform. I would guess that at least some of the people who claim to be anti-adoption feel the same. When people who publicly claim that they only adopt to convert kids to Christianity are allowed to adopt child after child after child after child, something needs to change. And when kids are essentially stolen from good bio parents who want to raise them, something is very wrong. It's too much about the money and not enough about the kids.

[LucyStoner]

I am generally favorable towards adoption. It's a great option for many kids and parents.

 

That does not mean I don't have concerns about the industry or lack understanding about the potential pitfalls and troubles. Adoption can be amazing and wonderful. But it can also fail. Such is life. There are risks no matter how someone becomes a parent.

 

That said, none of my concerns make me anti-adoption or are patently absurd like Gothard's claims about generational curses. Good grief. That man needs to stick a cork in it.

[Lisbeth]

Some people are. I knew an older man (relative of a relative) who, when he found out we were adopting, told our relatives that we were going to be in for trouble because adopted kids turn out to be juvenile delinquents.

Whatever.

 

This.  I have heard this numerous times, as in, if they had mentally ill or criminal parents, they carry a propensity for that and you are setting yourself up for trouble.  That sort of thing.

 

"That's the kind (puts) strychnine in the well!" - from Ann of Green Gables

[sparrow]

I don't even know if I can stay in this thread if it goes the way of people being anti-adoption.  I joined a group called B*stard Nation for about 4 days.......that was the most angry, bitter group of adoptees I have EVER met.  Their premise is that all mothers were coerced into giving their babies away.   

 

I am an adoptee AND an adoptive parent.  

 

I posted on B*astard Nation that I had the most amazing son through adoption.  The responses I got were hateful.  One woman said, "So, you get to be living the dream while his real mother lives the nightmare.  How lucky are you now?"

 

Dawn

 

I had the exact same experience, as an adoptee, with B*astard Nation (we had not adopted yet).  It was truly shocking to have someone tell me how I felt about MY experience. Bitter, nasty people who refuse to listen to anything but their own thoughts. Ugh! It has been 12-15 years and it still ticks me off.

 

As an adoptive parent and adoptee,  I can completely understand being against corrupt adoption.

[Farrar]

I don't know that much about the adoption industry, so I'm aware that there are issues, but the basic objection of "baby-selling" seems like it would be hard to counter.  There are legal costs and inspection costs that go with adoption.  I'm glad that there are legal and inspection hurdles to adoption because they provide safeguards.  Therefore, there will always be "baby selling" costs...  What do people who oppose the industry but not the concept of adoption propose?  Should the government cover all costs and make all decisions?  I'm actually curious...

[Ann.without.an.e]

My in laws.  Especially when we mentioned our desire to adopt across typical racial "boundaries"......hit.the.roof!!!! ugh

[TravelingChris]

I haven't encountered any in real life.  We haven't adopted.  Before our oldest was born, we were foster parents for about five months.  That first experience, with a nine year old girl who grew up in horrendous circumstances and then was mistreated at the first foster home, were a real eye opener, for us.  Unfortunately, the girl was well on her way to psychopathology (not just my opinion but psychiatrist too) and I learned that good treatment and nice home with all sorts of extras wouldn't erase the genetic and environmental aspects from her first nine years of life that were going to lead her into a not good fate.

 

I have met plenty of adopted children since then.  Most seemed fine but some definitely were not and I think one family I knew may have had the perfect storm happen because of adoption.  I am not anti adoption but I think if not going the foster to adopt route (where you have an out if the child turns out to be much more seriously damaged than obvious and you can't cope), I think meeting RAD families or at least reading lots of stories of theirs ought to be required reading.  I am talking about adopting children who are not newborns.  It is a particular risk when adopting children out of foreign orphanages or whose early childhoods were marred by total neglect- like many drug abusing homes have.

And yes, I do think orphanages are needed since some children can't be cared for by individual families without seriously damaging those families.

[mommaduck]

Some states, Oklahoma as one, have a limitation in the amount of money that can be paid for attorney and court fees or to the mother. I like the guardianship idea. I'm not against adoption; I'm against the industry and the attorneys that find loopholes to get around those that want to keep a child in the family. I'm very, very pro-adoptee rights. We should not have birth certificates that lie about our origins. We should have the basic rights everyone else has to our family history, our names, our family medical histories, etc. We shouldn't face adoptive parents that disown us when we find our natural families. We shouldn't have to grow up in a family where we are constantly reminded that we "aren't blood" or treated like an unwelcomed presence at family reunions. Kudos to those adoptive parents that have really done their best to truly work with those children and UNDERSTAND the emotions that adoptees deal with.

 

Bastard Nation is a bit over the top...I don't spend much time there. However, it just shows how many adoptions turn out just as ugly or uglier than if the child stayed with their biological families. There is no guarantee on adopted children or their adoptive families. People are messy...relationships are complicated.

[HRAAB]

My mother-in-law.  On several occasions she vocalized her disapproval of adopting knowing full well my sister is adopted.  She said having an only child was my parents' cross to bear.  Hmmmm.....  So for the child being abandoned is their cross????  She is equally opposed to mothers giving up children for adoption.

 

After the last comment out of her mouth, it was almost a year before I went to her house again.  I told my dh if she ever said another word, she was going to get an answer.  He thought it was a good idea if I stayed away, too.

[Laurie4b]

We are in the process of researching adoption and saving. I haven't met anyone adamantly opposed to adoption but I have met people who feel it is necessary to share their "horror" stories that they have heard from so and so. Do I expect it all to be perfect? No I don't. Are we realistically researching what RAD is and what that may mean? Yes. Will we have resources lined up before and after the adoption? Yep. Many many people only hear the horrible stories of adoption not the good ones. We hear about the woman who poured hot sauce down her son's mouth. The family who put their kid on a plane back to Russia. The children adopted from Africa who were abused and beaten and died. We don't hear about the positive beautiful outcomes. Biological birth isn't any guarantee against having a "delinquent" or a "criminal" or someone "emotionally disturbed". I don't get that argument.

 

Well the argument is one of probability. It is a much higher risk of getting a child with intractable mental/emotional problems (ie RAD) when adopting than when giving birth with the child raised in a stable home-- much, much, much higher. It's much like choosing to attempt to get pregnant at age 24 vs. 44. One is predictably higher risk than the other in terms of problems with the baby's health.

 

And if you ever talk with someone who adopted a child with those kinds of issues, it can leave major scars on the whole family. Though some good parents can have a  birth child who is a psychopath, chances are quite low. Parents whose child gets so ill they have to be hospitalized when very young and are in a lot of pain can develop RAD, but otherwise, it's not going to happen except in very unusual circumstances in a normal home.

There are, on the other hand, a high enough number of very, very difficult  placements when adopting older children that people are right to be concerned.

 

People who are talking to you about the issues may have your best interests and that of your family at heart. They don't know you already know about RAD. Much better to be in your situation (getting info you already have) than to be someone who didn't know RAD existed and who wasn't able to make an informed decision. That happens way too often because adoption agencies don't always do a good job of presenting reality to parents.

[freeindeed]

I'll be brief. My adopted daughter would probably be dead if she'd been left in an orphanage overseas. I understand the culture argument, but a chance at life trumps that every time.

[SKL]

There are some folks, as has been explained above, who believe adoption is pretty much always unethical and therefore wrong.  One group I had the misfortune to stumble across was US women who had relinquished their newborns for adoption and then felt that had been a mistake.  They felt they were talked into it unethically.  Sounded to me more like transferring their own feelings of regret, but whatever.  I'm sure unethical things happen in adoption as in anything else.  But I'm also sure there are many ethical adoptions.  I tend to believe the latter outnumber the former.

 

In addition, the term "anti-adoption" may be somewhat like the term "anti-choice" in that it is used against groups/entities that want adoption regulations etc. that will have the effect of reducing the number of adoptions.  For example, UNICEF has pushed and paid developing countries to make the adoption process much more cumbersome, with the result that more kids end up homeless or dependent on a third-world / practically non-existent social system, illiterate, forced into criminal lives, etc.  UNICEF and its supporters would say this is actually more ethical than "exporting" babies from their motherland.  So are they anti-adoption or not?  It's a charged question for sure.

 

For the record, I am the mom of two girls who were adopted internationally.  I am not a fan of UNICEF but I am not sure what their real intentions are.  I think they are misguided at minimum but not sure they are anti-adoption.

[AimeeM]

I lived next door to a man...he is 91 now.....and he spent his first 14 years in an orphanage. He was then taken out by an aunt and uncle in another state. He speaks fondly of his life in the orphanage and he didn't want to leave. He also was very unhappy with the aunt and uncle who I think used him as slave labor basically. He joined the navy the day he was able to....at 18 I guess.

 

He thinks orphanages have gotten a bum rap. He has even written articles about it.

 

My father is only in his 50's and he has given me the impression that he preferred the orphanages to foster care (where he was further abused).

[LucyStoner]

Orphanages really, really varied. My grandfather was barely 5'5 because he starved in an orphanage (his siblings who were much older when their parents died were much taller and his 5 sons are all just one side or the other of 6 feet). The orphanage staff beat him up badly and he ran away and was eventually taken in by an older woman in exchange for chores. He joined the army as soon as he could because there really wasn't any other opportunity in west Texas for a boy who had no family business/land and no education. It's a lot like foster care- some are great, some are awful, most somewhere in the middle. This was a long time ago- my grandfather would be past 100 if he were still living- he was orphaned in the 1910s.

[Anne in CA]

I have visited a lot of orphanages overseas. All but one (the best funded one) were very clean, had good food, the children went to good schools and were well dressed. But none of them had babies. Babies are placed for adoption when they are left in an orphanage. Most of the children in the orphanages I have visited were school age and most had a living parent who just could not care for them for many different reasons. They were not adoptable. Most of them shared beds with other children and were "se*ualized". They get comfort wherever they can. I do not blame them at ALL, but they would make poor older siblings for someone's children and they seem to be pretty happy where they are.  After being at these orphanages I would not adopt an older child from another country. I would adopt a baby who really needed a home if I didn't give them one, but there are so many people who want babies I would never do it.

[SKL]

I support orphanages and other institutions for destitute kids in developing countries.  Those that are privately-funded and get frequent visits from benefactors (without advance notice) are well-run.  Yes, they are always clean, lessons are always in progress (except at night), and the children seem as healthy and happy as any group of kids.  My girls and I visited a couple of them this past summer.  I always get a high when I go there, because these are girls who have a future they wouldn't otherwise have.

 

The orphanage we visited used to have a baby adoption center, but it has been closed.  The prospect of being accused or investigated for corruption in adoption was just too daunting.  I just hope those babies are finding good homes.

[daniela_r]

I have visited a lot of orphanages overseas. All but one (the best funded one) were very clean, had good food, the children went to good schools and were well dressed. But none of them had babies. Babies are placed for adoption when they are left in an orphanage. Most of the children in the orphanages I have visited were school age and most had a living parent who just could not care for them for many different reasons. They were not adoptable. Most of them shared beds with other children and were "se*ualized". They get comfort wherever they can. I do not blame them at ALL, but they would make poor older siblings for someone's children and they seem to be pretty happy where they are.  After being at these orphanages I would not adopt an older child from another country. I would adopt a baby who really needed a home if I didn't give them one, but there are so many people who want babies I would never do it.

 

Not questioning your experience, but would you please mention what countries you visited orphanages in?

 

The only orphanage I have visited overseas was in Uzbekistan and was a special needs orphanage.  It was a "good" orphanage for there, and yet it bordered on horrific.  I visited several times to volunteer when I lived in Tashkent.

[shawthorne44]

I'd place myself in the pro-adoption and pro-orphage camp.  But a tiny bit in the anti-foster camp.  Not as a concept.  But I am against the current idea that kids should never be in a group home, but should be in a foster home and they should be moved as soon as they get comfortable.  That last part really drives me crazy.  But not very anti-foster, because it can be a wonderful thing for a kid. 

[Guest]

As much as I would love to grow my own family by opening my home and heart to a child who needs me, I dobn't think that's going to happen.

 

It was much more common in 1958 than it is now, but a family member was coerced into giving up a child she could have raised as a single parent with just a little bit of support. I'm not sure whether this would have meant WIC and a six week maternity leave or just a cheerleader therapist saying "You can do it!" and "Don't listen to that old meanie, haters gonna hate." at appropriate times.

 

Giving up a child is a lot more emotionally devastating then giving up a puppy. She wound up in the psych ward after surrendering her son. The adoption has had a negative impact on her ability to parent her subsequent children and her entire life.

 

If I had enough money to cover the costs of an adoption, that might be enough money to help keep the family together. I'm not a better person than a woman in Guatemala just because I have access to more disposable income, nor do I feel like the culture of the middle class US is superior to any other culture.

 

I don't automatically judge all adoptive families as "baby stealers" or completely rule out the possibility of fostering or adopting in the context of rescuing a specific child from an institutional setting, but when I hear "Aren't you going to adopt?" when I tell my infertility story, this is what I wish I could say without being accused of hating puppies and rainbows. ;)

[Laurie4b]

As much as I would love to grow my own family by opening my home and heart to a child who needs me, I dobn't think that's going to happen.

 

It was much more common in 1958 than it is now, but a family member was coerced into giving up a child she could have raised as a single parent with just a little bit of support. I'm not sure whether this would have meant WIC and a six week maternity leave or just a cheerleader therapist saying "You can do it!" and "Don't listen to that old meanie, haters gonna hate." at appropriate times.

 

Giving up a child is a lot more emotionally devastating then giving up a puppy. She wound up in the psych ward after surrendering her son. The adoption has had a negative impact on her ability to parent her subsequent children and her entire life.

 

If I had enough money to cover the costs of an adoption, that might be enough money to help keep the family together. I'm not a better person than a woman in Guatemala just because I have access to more disposable income, nor do I feel like the culture of the middle class US is superior to any other culture.

 

I don't automatically judge all adoptive families as "baby stealers" or completely rule out the possibility of fostering or adopting in the context of rescuing a specific child from an institutional setting, but when I hear "Aren't you going to adopt?" when I tell my infertility story, this is what I wish I could say without being accused of hating puppies and rainbows. ;)

 

That is so very sad.

 

[Laurie4b]

I'd place myself in the pro-adoption and pro-orphage camp.  But a tiny bit in the anti-foster camp.  Not as a concept.  But I am against the current idea that kids should never be in a group home, but should be in a foster home and they should be moved as soon as they get comfortable.  That last part really drives me crazy.  But not very anti-foster, because it can be a wonderful thing for a kid. 

 

Do you mean  that they should be intentionally moved as soon as they get comfortable? When I was in graduate school in social work in the 1980s, that was already known to be harmful and the idea had been abandoned--or so I thought. Where is that still practiced? Best practice in foster care is to get a kid to a stable home as soon as possible and keep them in that same home until being reunited with the parent or adoption. Foster parents usually get first dibs on adoption if they want to. People do know how much stability means to kids' mental health. 

" It's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all,:" is definitely the mantra. Better to bond with the foster parents and grieve that loss than to remain unbonded for long stretches of time. If kids are difficult, however, they can really get bounced around a lot.