How do you respond to this argument?

[Mommy22alyns]

When someone says, "You wouldn't do brain surgery yourself or represent yourself in court, so why are you teaching your kids? Why don't you leave it to the experts?"

 

:confused:

[Janie Grace]

I think there are a lot of professions that can be self-taught, if you are motivated enough to learn and get tons of practical experience. I consider education one of them. I am a self-taught educator.

[Impish]

I *am* the expert on my kids.

[LibraryLover]

Nobody has asked me that, but I can tell you with all seriousness that I have outsourced some things. I am not a jill-of-all trades.

 

Given that, I guess I would reply, "I have a whole community of good folks who can help me educate my children. We might not use a brick & mortar school, but we am not alone in this."

 

Or something like that. ;) :)

Edited October 30, 2011 by LibraryLover

[clarkacademy]

I would just shake my head and smile while looking at them as if they just grew another head. I would also say something along the lines that is that witty statement came from a public school then I am glad my kids aren't there. If you wanna get just as juvenile you could always say, "here's your sign!"

[LauraGB]

When someone says, "You wouldn't do brain surgery yourself or represent yourself in court, so why are you teaching your kids? Why don't you leave it to the experts?"

 

:confused:

 

What a stupid question! If my kids wanted to learn how to perform brain surgery, they would have to go to a specialized school. Duh. Humans naturally teach one another whether they mean to or not. The basics of elementary education isn't specialized; it's broad and far reaching so the kid can be able to learn specialized instruction.

[Pretty in Pink]

No one has ever said that to me. One of my dh's co-workers once said something along those lines to him. His response: "My children outscore the vast majority of public school students on standardized tests, so I think we're getting the job done."

[DusksAngel]

Seriously? Do you know how teachers are taught?

 

Okay, I probably wouldn't actually say that, going more with Imps idea. But I would be THINKING it the ENTIRE time! I really hate when people show their ignorance. And there are some doctors that I don't want operating on me either so ....

[sparrow]

I don't engage in that line of questioning. My general response to any question about homeschooling is, "It works for us". Sometimes I have to repeat myself, but overall, folks seem to get that it's not a topic that is up for discussion.

[tntgoodwin]

Do they drive? Cook? Clean? Do laundry? Why not get a professional to do those things too.

 

Or, tell them you feel it is your responsibility to raise your children, and you aren't going to abdicate that to someone who won't necessarily loves your kids and have their best interest in mind. If anyone gets to brainwash your kids and indoctrinate them, it will be you.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I would simply say "You mean the same experts that are delivering seniors who struggle to read? The same experts that are producing kids who simply can not compete with schools around the world? The same experts that are more concerned wit how kids feel than providing them with the feedback they need to improve on their work?"

 

 

The state of American schools in general is very very poor. Not all school are like this, I totally understand that, but over all they are failing. These experts are more worried about offending somebody than teaching. This has absolutely been my experience. My kids were in the hands of these "experts" My oldest through 4th grade. She was so far behind I had to remediate for the first 2 years and yet she was an honor student?? My now 4th grader was in PS for K.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

No one has ever said that to me. One of my dh's co-workers once said something along those lines to him. His response: "My children outscore the vast majority of public school students on standardized tests, so I think we're getting the job done."

 

 

 

:iagree:

[Homemama2]

I'd explain how homeschoolers are able to buy scripted lessons, subjects that are taught by video etc., so if you really struggled in school yourself, you could still do an excellent job teaching your children.

 

(The people I graduated with who got degrees in teaching were not by ANY means the top students anyway! Most were C students. So I am not sure that I would consider them an 'expert' in that area. In 'teaching', yes, but in knowledge of the material being taught, no. I know this certainly isn't the case with all teachers, and I'm not saying teachers aren't doing a fine job. But I would not compare it with being a brain surgeon.)

[Kirch]

You won't kill your kids by teaching them. You might if you operated on them.

 

Teaching is absolutely not comparable to brain surgery.

 

:iagree: It's apples and oranges. Brain surgery is a one-time, do-or-die (literally!) thing; teaching--and learning--is a process. Like Imp said, I am an expert on my kids, and as I teach them, I continue to learn more about their needs and grow in my strengths as a teacher--just like a classroom teacher does, only it's tailored to my children. New teachers aren't usually that great, not because they don't know the content but because so much of teaching is learning by doing--figuring out what works and what doesn't, figuring out how to explain concepts more clearly, learning to motivate kids--things you just can't learn in a college classroom. If they can learn those things on the fly with a roomful of kids, I can certainly learn it as I go with my children, and I'm probably going to be much more motivated to do so. And I'm sorry, but if I can't manage to teach pretty much all subjects up through at least 6th grade or so without much trouble, then my free, public education (not to say anything of my college degree) wasn't worth much, was it?

[Parrothead]

I *am* the expert on my kids.

:iagree:I'm with Imp.

[Night Elf]

I guess it would depend on who said it. My first inclination would be to say, "Well that's just stupid." Stupid comments deserve stupid responses.

[DawnM]

All this argument reasoning does is fuel more fire. Why do we need to turn it into a teacher bashing argument? The state of the US educational system is so much more than a few bad teachers.

 

Dawn

 

I would simply say "You mean the same experts that are delivering seniors who struggle to read? The same experts that are producing kids who simply can not compete with schools around the world? The same experts that are more concerned wit how kids feel than providing them with the feedback they need to improve on their work?"

 

 

The state of American schools in general is very very poor. Not all school are like this, I totally understand that, but over all they are failing. These experts are more worried about offending somebody than teaching. This has absolutely been my experience. My kids were in the hands of these "experts" My oldest through 4th grade. She was so far behind I had to remediate for the first 2 years and yet she was an honor student?? My now 4th grader was in PS for K.

[DawnM]

I do agree.....stupid reasoning and one that should not be dignified with an answer.

[Parker Martin]

"Teaching ain't brain surgery, and the education department ain't medical school."

 

The "ain't"s are necessary to making smoke billow from the person's ears.

 

Imp's answer is the accurate one.

[kalanamak]

I'd just laugh, and call the person "such a card". I'd add "you really do crack me up! I've never heard that one before. I'll have to tell my homeschooling buddies that one, hahahahahaha." And then ask them where they got that smashing sweater.

[5kidsforME]

I'd just laugh, and call the person "such a card". I'd add "you really do crack me up! I've never heard that one before. I'll have to tell my homeschooling buddies that one, hahahahahaha." And then ask them where they got that smashing sweater.

 

 

:iagree:

[angela in ohio]

Logically? "Well, obviously, teaching isn't as complicated as brain surgery. Just compare the education required for each and their salaries. You're comparing apples and oranges."

[silliness7]

When someone says, "You wouldn't do brain surgery yourself or represent yourself in court, so why are you teaching your kids? Why don't you leave it to the experts?"

 

:confused:

 

Just because it takes an expert to do brain surgery, it does not follow that it takes an expert to teach someone to read. You can OUTSOURCE childcare, housecleaning, pedicures, laundry, cooking, tailoring, plumbing, car maintenance, taxes, etc. But many people do these things just fine on their own.

 

So to that argument I would ask for proof that education belongs in the brain surgery level of expertise and not the cooking level of expertise.

 

Some people are expert chefs. They go to school for that kind of thing- above and beyond than the average person. But I can serve healthy, satisfying meals at home with just me and my Betty Crocker cookbook. If I want to get fancy, I can learn as I go. If I just want a good hearty basic nutrition that makes someone healthy and strong, I've got all that I need for that already.

 

Prove to me that education is rocket surgery (as my dh says) and not good old common sense. Just because people go to school for it, just because most parents outsource it is not proof.

[silliness7]

I *am* the expert on my kids.

 

Love it. :D

[Margo out of lurking]

I don't engage in that line of questioning. My general response to any question about homeschooling is, "It works for us". Sometimes I have to repeat myself, but overall, folks seem to get that it's not a topic that is up for discussion.

 

Me too. I probably wouldn't respond if someone actually had the nerve to say that to me.

[AvasMom]

When someone says, "You wouldn't do brain surgery yourself or represent yourself in court, so why are you teaching your kids? Why don't you leave it to the experts?"

 

:confused:

 

Because you can choose your surgeon and lawyer based on their training/ success record, etc. but the teacher your kids get is a crapshoot.

[higginszoo]

Um, frankly ... teaching kids is *not* brain surgery.

 

Not saying that it's not important for many people to have access to those services, but my kids didn't learn much at all when they were in a traditional school setting.

[Parker Martin]

"Tell you what: Go out and meet five teachers. Then meet five brain surgeons. Let me know if you still think that was a good analogy."

 

I'm not impugning teachers, but comparing almost any job to brain surgery, one of the most educationally and mentally demanding jobs around, is silly.

[9763653]

When someone says, "You wouldn't do brain surgery yourself or represent yourself in court, so why are you teaching your kids? Why don't you leave it to the experts?"

 

:confused:

 

I've heard that one too, but related to homebirth. I was asked if I would give myself an episiotomy or a c-section too :D. It's a stupid question, with a simple answer. We outsource what we need or want to, but not what we can and want to do ourselves.

[elegantlion]

I *am* the expert on my kids.

 

:iagree:

 

My snarky reply would be that I'm not performing brain surgery on my child. If ds was nearby I'd probably ask him if I'd done surgery on him lately. Ds would probably reply we'd studied the brain, but that's about it. Then ds would laugh because we'd both be thinking a particular zombie song. I like to further confuse people when they ask stupid questions. :lol:

[kalanamak]

"Tell you what: Go out and meet five teachers. Then meet five brain surgeons. Let me know if you still think that was a good analogy."

 

 

Actually, THE smartest docs I've met have been in infectious disease, cardiology, endocrine, and general surgery, in that order. I met a couple cardiothoracic surgeons who were really bright, but they were a close circle of well-educated Jews from South Africa.

 

Neurosurgeons (keep in mind I've only known 10 or so) have been tense and laconic.

[mcconnellboys]

I would beg to differ that those obtaining teaching certificates are "experts" at anything. Those I know who hold degrees tell me that they were never trained, not even one class, in how to handle different learning styles, how to handle special needs kids (on either end of the spectrum), etc.

 

A brain surgeon does undergo many, many years of specialized training, as well as on-the-job training, before doing even that first surgery. As well, that person may be involved with constant research work and ongoing training and retraining. This is not comparable to the training received by teachers at all.

[Ailaena]

Is that question a fallacy of questionable analogy (faulty comparison) or a fallacy of composition (since it is true that brain surgeons need extensive training, so must career X)?

 

Either way, I would certainly call out the person on their sneaky attempt to use rhetoric or logic in order to confuse people...;)

[MariannNOVA]

When someone says, "You wouldn't do brain surgery yourself or represent yourself in court, so why are you teaching your kids? Why don't you leave it to the experts?"

 

:confused:

 

I wouldn't do brain surgery on myself b/c it's physically impossible and b/c I am not a neurosurgeon.:001_huh:

 

I have represented myself in court and it has turned out just ducky.:)

 

I educate my children because as the first pediatrician I EVER went to when my two older girls were infants told me: 'No one knows your children like you.'

 

I dabble in lots of stuff, but I am the hands-down expert on my children and educating them.

[smilesonly]

When someone says, "You wouldn't do brain surgery yourself or represent yourself in court, so why are you teaching your kids? Why don't you leave it to the experts?"

 

:confused:

 

Something along the lines of..."Last time I checked, the U.S.is the leader when it comes to health care, and our courts, while being laughable at times, still stand in the top 10 in the world. Education? The U.S. has a horrible position in every area at this time. Therefore, I am certain I can do as good, if not better than a public school teacher."

[Parker Martin]

Actually, THE smartest docs I've met have been in infectious disease, cardiology, endocrine, and general surgery, in that order.

 

I can believe that. Especially infectious disease. The massive amount of information one would have to know, the pressure, and the constant puzzling out. Not that those things aren't applicable to the others, but it seems as though that would especially be the case with infectious disease.

 

Neurosurgeons (keep in mind I've only known 10 or so) have been tense and laconic.

 

I can believe that too. But then, I don't mind laconic and am rather a fan of his cousin terse.

[LaxMom]

Last time I looked, teachers weren't subject matter experts. They used to be, but now the vast majority are generalists who develop skill in an area through interest and experience.

 

As I was fond of pointing out when people waxed on about the perceived difficulty of software engineering: rocket science isn't Rocket Science if that's what you do for a living.

[dcjlkplus3]

Just because it takes an expert to do brain surgery, it does not follow that it takes an expert to teach someone to read. You can OUTSOURCE childcare, housecleaning, pedicures, laundry, cooking, tailoring, plumbing, car maintenance, taxes, etc. But many people do these things just fine on their own.

 

So to that argument I would ask for proof that education belongs in the brain surgery level of expertise and not the cooking level of expertise.

 

Some people are expert chefs. They go to school for that kind of thing- above and beyond than the average person. But I can serve healthy, satisfying meals at home with just me and my Betty Crocker cookbook. If I want to get fancy, I can learn as I go. If I just want a good hearty basic nutrition that makes someone healthy and strong, I've got all that I need for that already.

 

Prove to me that education is rocket surgery (as my dh says) and not good old common sense. Just because people go to school for it, just because most parents outsource it is not proof.

:iagree:

[happyhomemaker]

After pointing out some of the inconsistencies in the argument, I'd be tempted to inquire about where this person found a good, education degree holding, homework expert for his/her dc since it's so ridiculous for a "layman" to teach his/her child anything at home. :tongue_smilie:

[kiana]

Just because it takes an expert to do brain surgery, it does not follow that it takes an expert to teach someone to read. You can OUTSOURCE childcare, housecleaning, pedicures, laundry, cooking, tailoring, plumbing, car maintenance, taxes, etc. But many people do these things just fine on their own.

 

So to that argument I would ask for proof that education belongs in the brain surgery level of expertise and not the cooking level of expertise.

 

Some people are expert chefs. They go to school for that kind of thing- above and beyond than the average person. But I can serve healthy, satisfying meals at home with just me and my Betty Crocker cookbook. If I want to get fancy, I can learn as I go. If I just want a good hearty basic nutrition that makes someone healthy and strong, I've got all that I need for that already.

 

Prove to me that education is rocket surgery (as my dh says) and not good old common sense. Just because people go to school for it, just because most parents outsource it is not proof.

 

Thanks for saving me typing time by saying what I was going to say :D

[nono]

When someone says, "You wouldn't do brain surgery yourself or represent yourself in court, so why are you teaching your kids? Why don't you leave it to the experts?"

 

:confused:

 

 

No one has ever said that to me. If they did, here's my answer:

 

"I've represented myself against the IRS, which is arguably equivalent to/more trecherous than court. They paid out in five figures."

 

"I've never needed brain surgery. However, I did need minor foot surgery on a holiday weekend at the shore. I did it myself. My medical friends later gave me new scalpels. No one was horrified that I did it. So, what is it that you do again that sits in such judgement of me teaching my children?"

[LauraGB]

No one has ever said that to me. If they did, here's my answer:

 

"I've represented myself against the IRS, which is arguably equivalent to/more trecherous than court. They paid out in five figures."

 

"I've never needed brain surgery. However, I did need minor foot surgery on a holiday weekend at the shore. I did it myself. My medical friends later gave me new scalpels. No one was horrified that I did it. So, what is it that you do again that sits in such judgement of me teaching my children?"

 

Nono, you are very cool :). (sincerely, no sarcasm intended!)

[RegGuheert]

When someone says, "You wouldn't do brain surgery yourself or represent yourself in court, so why are you teaching your kids? Why don't you leave it to the experts?"

Hmmm...Let's see...

 

1) MomsintheGarden is THE BEST teacher I know of for our children. I will put her results up against ANY TEACHER ANYWHERE for grades pre-K through the second year of college.

 

2) Because it is a well-known fact that one-on-one instruction is far superior to education in a classroom.

 

3) If my kids want to grow up to be lawyers or brain surgeons, I want to provide them with an education which gives them the best opportunity to achieve that goal.

 

4) You mean you don't do brain surgery on yourself? I do it ALL THE TIME and it doesn't affect me none!

 

5) If we sent our kids to a school, how could they spend all of their waking hours studying for spelling bees.

 

6) Because the socialization that children receive in the schools around here seems to cause psychotic behaviors that I do not wish my children to exhibit.

 

7) Because I do not agree with much of the indoctrination (teaching one side of an issue) that is done in the public schools. If anyone is going to indoctrinate our children, their mother and I will do it.

 

8) Because I was educated in the local public schools. You wouldn't want them to turn out like me, would you?

 

9) I am not interesting in turning my children over the to public school system just to have them taught that their parents are idiots who are not to be trusted or obeyed.

 

10) Because they do not teach logic in the public schools. I wouldn't want them going around spewing logical fallacies about subjects of which they have no knowledge.

 

For some reason, I never seem to be asked silly questions like that. ;)

[Jenny in Florida]

There used to be a kind of parody of this attitude that floated around in homeschool circles. It purported to be a new law requiring that parents not be allowed to prepare meals and feed their children, because they were not formally educated, professional dieticians.

 

I love it because it takes this argument to an extreme that makes it clear how silly it is.

 

I don't have a copy on hand, unfortunately.

 

On a more serious note, I think I'd point out that, based on my experience spending a year in a teacher education program in college, much of what is required to become a certified teacher has to do with skills like classroom management. Those things are not an issue when a parent teaches a child at home. Also, there could never be a teacher who cared as much about, knew as much about or worked harder to educate my kids than I do. One-on-one teaching by an extremely motivated parent tends to be pretty effective.

Edited October 30, 2011 by Jenny in Florida

[GoVanGogh]

A former friend of mine said that to us when we decided to homeschool. Ironically, a year later she and her husband built their own home from the ground up. Yup - former friend (a preschool teacher) and her husband (a community college drop-out) designed and built a house w/o an architect, electrician, plumber, brick mason... When her husband needed help, he found a mentor. Hm. Sounds a bit like homeschooling to me, right? :lol:

 

 

My best comeback for that question - not that I have ever used it - but it is pretty telling on the state of education if I, a public school and college grad, cannot teach basic reading, writing and math! :tongue_smilie:

I may not be a certified teacher, but my self-taught reader just scored post-high school reading level on a standardized test and often reads adult-level science books.

[Haiku]

When someone says, "You wouldn't do brain surgery yourself or represent yourself in court, so why are you teaching your kids? Why don't you leave it to the experts?"

 

I wouldn't respond, because it's a dumb argument.

 

Tara

[sassenach]

As taken from the Bitter Homeschooler's Wishlist:

 

 

11. Please stop questioning my competency and demanding to see my credentials. I didn't have to complete a course in catering to successfully cook dinner for my family; I don't need a degree in teaching to educate my children. If spending at least twelve years in the kind of chew-it-up-and-spit-it-out educational facility we call public school left me with so little information in my memory banks that I can't teach the basics of an elementary education to my nearest and dearest, maybe there's a reason I'm so reluctant to send my child to school.

[Tea Time]

When someone says, "You wouldn't do brain surgery yourself or represent yourself in court, so why are you teaching your kids? Why don't you leave it to the experts?"

 

:confused:

 

Is that question a fallacy of questionable analogy (faulty comparison) or a fallacy of composition (since it is true that brain surgeons need extensive training, so must career X)?

 

Either way, I would certainly call out the person on their sneaky attempt to use rhetoric or logic in order to confuse people...;)

 

:iagree: Well put!

 

So my response would probably be, "Because I want them to have a better understanding of logic than you have just demonstrated."

 

Or how about, "Um, maybe you should leave reasoning to professionals. Clearly you are not qualified."

 

Or, "Now that you mention it, if public schools were being taught by brains surgeons, I might use them."

 

Or how about, "Speaking of brain surgeons, if you really think like that, maybe you should have your head examined."

 

:lol: Not really. I wouldn't say that.

 

But here is what I would really say, "What, exactly, do you think public school teachers and administrators are 'experts' in? Because I think that teachers as human beings are awesome, but public education's actual purpose on the large scale has little to do with educating my children."

[Carpe]

Two that I've used:

 

"Did you know podiatrists will clip toenails? In fact diabetics are urged to have their toenails trimmed by the experts. But I bet you just cut your own. If my kids needed help from an expert, I'd get it. Whether it's their toenails or their education. But they don't, so I don't."

 

"If brain surgery becomes mandatory and everyone gets the same one regardless of need, I might start."

[TravelingChris]

I don't ever have anyone seriously ask me this. The only thing anyone ever asks is about regulations- not about my abilities. It may be because I have a certain personality (INTJ) and people really don't question me usually on much of anything. It may have to do with the way I talk. I really don't know but I sure don't mind. I have been homeschooling for 17 years in many places and no one has ever questioned me in this way. I didn't get the socialization arguments either, probably because I didn't get into homeschooling discussion with total strangers, usually. So the only comments I get are either neutral- how does homeschooling work, what are the rules, or complimentary.