What would make you consider putting your dc in public schools?

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

Lets start off by saying I do NOT want to do this. There is something going on that the thought actually crossed my mind today though.

 

1) if it were not for academic reasons

 

2) if it were not for financial reasons

 

What would (if anything) make you consider putting your dc in public school?

 

Dd 13 did/said something that absolutely CRUSHED the life out of me today. I am in tears as I type this....

 

I could also use prayers over this situation. I will be talking to our pastor today.

 

Thanks In Advance

[2squared]

Well, here are some reasons for me off the top of my head:

 

1) The school could offer more breadth

2) To save relationships within our family - whether that is between sibs or parent & child. Sometimes a little distance is truly better.

3) If I was overwhelmed trying to be everything to everyone and just couldn't do it all anymore.

[eternalknot]

Well, here are some reasons for me off the top of my head:

 

1) The school could offer more breadth

2) To save relationships within our family - whether that is between sibs or parent & child. Sometimes a little distance is truly better.

3) If I was overwhelmed trying to be everything to everyone and just couldn't do it all anymore.

 

I'm not anti-public school (rather, I'm not pro-homeschooling-for-all). It wouldn't take much for me to decide to put my children into public schools, and we keep it among our options every year as a definite possibility.

 

That said, I think the above list would be definite reasons I'd consider sending my kids to school. Most especially number two, and particularly if I were more on the die-hard lifestyle side of the homeschooling philosophy.

 

I wish I remembered which poster and which thread I saw it on, but in the past 24 hours there was a small blurb here at WTM in which a poster shared something along the lines of this: what mattered most was her relationship with the child; moreso than did the child's academics. So while public school wasn't a top academic choice, it was the best choice for helping their relationship when it needed something different to be happening.

[MindyD]

If I or the kids were burned out. Personally, I'm almost there right now myself, but I'm pushing through. Whatever is going on with your family, don't beat yourself up if school really is a better choice for you. It's okay to change direction.

[Mom-ninja.]

Money reasons is the only thing that comes to mind.

[QueenCat]

:grouphug:s and prayers. My only advice is not to make too quick of decision for change. Let yourself calm down, and have time to think things over. Also remember how hormonal 13 year olds are, both boys and girls.

[BlessedMom]

:grouphug: So sorry you are hurting. :grouphug:

[Quiver0f10]

:grouphug:

[5KidzRUs]

PS if it is the best interest of your child. Put all the 'noise' aside and you will figure out what is best. :grouphug:

[Princess Peach]

:grouphug:

 

I am not anti- public school. Right now we feel that the best thing for our kids is for them to be homeschooled. If I ever felt like they would be better served in PS, they would go. Our oldest will probably go to the public high school in 9th grade. There are so many opportunities there that I could not give him at home.

[Tree House Academy]

If my 12 year old became more than I could handle for me to feel like it is still "fair" to him, myself, and his younger brother for me to try to homeschool him, I could see us making a decision to put him back into school (maybe not ps, but private or another alternative).

[Parrothead]

It would take me being dead to consent to dd going to public school here.

 

That said, it sounds like maybe it is time for you and your kids to reconnect. Consider unplugging them from electronics and friends, if that is an issue, and use the next couple weeks for relationship building.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Parrothead

[Night Elf]

It isn't even a consideration for ds15 no matter what the circumstance, unless it is a private school designed for kids with special needs and those start around $18,000/year here.

 

Dd13 is a different person. If she really wants to go, I will let her go although I will miss her being at home. She expressed a slight interest this year but she is not old enough for the school district to place her in 9th grade. They wouldn't even allow her to go into 3rd grade after finishing the Calvert School 2nd grade with an accredited transcript. So, I told her that if she desired to go after she has completed 9th grade at home, we will enroll her. The school will have no choice but to accept the freshman year transcript from Keystone, an accredited school. I would be willing to argue that case. But just asking them to put her in now, there is no way.

[The Girls' Mom]

For us, my dh and I would have to both be dead. In which case we have provided enough insurance for their caretakers to send them to a private school. I just can't come up with a scenario in which we would even consider it.

[5LittleMonkeys]

I don't want to answer because even if I would put my dc in ps because of the exact problem your facing right now, that doesn't mean that you should. Everyone's family dynamics are different and everyone has a different threshold for what they are able or willing to deal with. I know that isn't any help at all....

 

:grouphug::grouphug: I'm sorry you are so upset.

[Just Robyn]

If I became a single mother and no one would take me and my children into their home, then I would put them in ps. I really don't see how I would have any other option at that point, financially. (I suppose I would look for one though.)

 

That said, my children are younger. Who knows how my insistence on homeschooling might change as my children get older. I don't know what could make me think that my children would be better off, in some way, in public school, but I'm open to the idea that there might be something, and that something might hold true for us.

[Mommy22alyns]

It would take me being dead to consent to dd going to public school here.

 

 

 

That's kinda how I feel. But as a PP said, my kids are still young and I don't know how things will change as they get older.

 

:grouphug:

[Joyofsixreboot]

A strong desire on their part along with evidence they would do well.

A serious illness for me.

 

We homeschool for academic reasons. Our elementary and middle schools are poor. The county high school does offer lots of higher level and AP courses. My first 3 have chosen public high school. No problems so far.

[Wheres Toto]

Well, here are some reasons for me off the top of my head:

 

1) The school could offer more breadth

2) To save relationships within our family - whether that is between sibs or parent & child. Sometimes a little distance is truly better.

3) If I was overwhelmed trying to be everything to everyone and just couldn't do it all anymore.

 

This, plus if I just felt it was the best thing for that particular child.

 

I have one child who has always been in public school and done very well. She will be graduating next year.

 

We are homeschooling mostly due to my son's particular quirks with academics a close second (and the fact that his quirks would keep him from doing well academically in a school setting). If that should change, we would consider having him go to public school. I know such claims are often met with skepticism, but we really do live in an excellent school district.

[joannqn]

It would take me being dead to consent to dd going to public school here.

 

That said, it sounds like maybe it is time for you and your kids to reconnect. Consider unplugging them from electronics and friends, if that is an issue, and use the next couple weeks for relationship building.

:iagree:

 

 

My older two have no desire to go to school, and we have no desire to send them there. There would have to be no other options.

 

We don't have money to pay for life insurance and don't have a will (I know, I know). I'd like to get both because I'm considering naming a family friend as their guardian because she would homeschool them.

[melmichigan]

Dd 13 did/said something that absolutely CRUSHED the life out of me today. I am in tears as I type this....

 

I could also use prayers over this situation. I will be talking to our pastor today.

 

Thanks In Advance

 

:grouphug: We are just getting into the hormonal years and man can my DD push the right buttons. :glare: Take a little time to reflect before making any decisions.

[ChristusG]

Nothing, really.

 

I am homeschooling for so many reasons that I couldn't imagine putting them into public school. Okay, yes, sometimes I dream of dropping them off and having each day to myself.....but then I come back to reality LOL.

 

Kids can be cruel....kids know how to push their parents buttons and they won't hesitate to pull out all the stops. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day for you.

[Impish]

If I became incapacitated.

[Maverick_Mom]

Hell freezing over.

 

I mean that only half-flippantly. Three of my four children have been in public school. I will never do it again, at least not in this town.

 

We're going to be moving at some point in the (I hope not-too-distant) future, so maybe I'll answer the question differently then.

[HS Mom in NC]

Nothing.

 

I have Libertarian views on the role of parents vs. the role of government that would make using ps philosophically inconsistent.

[catz]

If I had a rational older child asking to go to school over a period of time and good indication that they could be successful in PS, I would consider it. My oldest went to PS for 2 years, so it's clearly not taboo for us. He's academically well ahead, so we chose to homeschool for those reasons. He was begging for a school change and we saw unfavorable changes in him at home. Both my kids are definitely in it for the next couple years at least.

 

I'd also consider it if I were completely burnt out and "done". If I weren't engaged enough to be affective, we'd make a change. I consider this a year to year proposition for our family.

 

I am also not willing to live in poverty or accept public assistance to continue homeschooling. So if we were to have a major change that brought on financial disaster, I'd return to work and my kids would return to (a carefully chosen) school.

 

Anyway, sorry you're having a hard time with your 13 year old. Good luck making decisions! If you need to change gears, don't panic. It's really ok to reassess as you go! :grouphug:

[Jan in SC]

If ps became a better option, I would enroll my child. It would have to be better academically, or provide some other activity I could not and still meet his academic needs.

 

I would choose ps and work if I could not provide enriching activities for my children. (Art lessons, music lessons, theatre, sports, some travel ) They are not important to everyone, but they are important to dh and me.

 

I would put the boys in ps and work if my dh had health issues and couldn't work, or if he couldn't make enough money to support us. I would try to work my schedule to homeschool around work, but if it wasn't a consistent schedule that everyone did well with, I would enroll them.

 

My dc have to go to school if I needed to work to have enough income to live. I wouldn't let my dh work an extra job if I didn't already have one.

 

If I couldn't homeschool my children in a consistent and academic manner I would send them to school. I wont give my dc a year to read and do some math. I know it works for many people, but it would not help me meet the goals I have for my dc. (This scenario could be anything from a severe illness to a relationship issue with my child.)

 

That sounds like a lot if reasons, but we thought through these before we began and we do plan to homeschool for several more years.

[zenjenn]

For any multitude of reasons, most of which have already been outlined by other posters.

 

But, for me it would be highly unlikely I'd consider it in the elementary years. I would be hard-pressed to be convinced that the local public schools in my area can provide an enriching education for my kids.

 

At the high school level or even middle school, it becomes a different ball game, I think, because at that point education is not as centered around the educators. I'm not there yet so it's hard for me to comment, but I do think for the older grades/high school the decision on how to educate has an entirely different set of issues.

[FO4UR]

I've weighed this question very recently due to some stresses in our family.

 

Basically, I came to the conclusion that it would take a serious traumatic upheaval before sending them to PS becomes an option. I will take a light month/season/year if needed. I will eat ramen noodles daily, if needed. I will sacrifice just about anything BUT the ability to pass on an education and a childhood to my dc. If I am unable to educate them, or am unable to provide them with a safe/healthy childhood...I'll consider PS as a last resort/short term solution.

[Sheila in OK]

:iagree: especially with #2. For us, the most likely reason, though, would be financial. :(

 

Well, here are some reasons for me off the top of my head:

 

1) The school could offer more breadth

2) To save relationships within our family - whether that is between sibs or parent & child. Sometimes a little distance is truly better.

3) If I was overwhelmed trying to be everything to everyone and just couldn't do it all anymore.

[WIS0320]

I would absolutely consider public schools if I thought they could accomplish more in a school year than I could at home. I don't think public schools are evil entities that are designed to corrupt and stunt my children, a fear which I see promoted on homeschooling forums all the time.

 

I think it all boils down to why a family homeschools in the first place. If our public schools had smaller class sizes and used curriculum I liked and our parish co-op wasn't so wonderful then I would seriously consider putting my children in public school.

 

If something isn't working there is nothing shameful at looking at all the options. A happier child who is productive is worth a lot, even if that means they are happy and productive in public school.

 

JMO.

[LaxMom]

It would take me being dead to consent to dd going to public school here.

 

 

 

Yep, that's pretty much it. And I'm not anti-public school, or pro-homeschool for everyone.

 

My kids aren't "young". My 22yo daughter graduated from public school. Whatever the issue is, address it directly, with help. The public school social dynamic is unlikely to help the underlying problem.

[Jann in TX]

I guess you could say that she was expelled from our home school.

 

She was oppositional and physically abusive towards me.

 

She began PS in 6th grade. (Not my choice for entry years but it worked out).

 

Her PS experience was very good-- AND our home life was preserved. She was an excellent student (top 5%) and was often 'teacher's pet'.

 

Due to medical issues (lots of them including suicidal-level anxiety) she came back home in 10th. It was one of the most difficult decisions I have ever made. Other than her dual enrollment credits (27 hours), she did NOTHING and was verbally abusive and oppositional to me like never before. Counseling did not help. Her medical issues mimic bi-polar (but she is definitely NOT bipolar).

 

She bombed her ACT/SAT tests (medical crisis the week before each test --almost laughable she did not have a chance!-- the last time she took the ACT I did not tell her about the test date and she STILL had a medical crisis the week of the test.)

 

This dd is off to college 4 hours away. I'm counting the days. As soon as she is gone I will happily gut her room and start to repair all of the damage. Putting her through college is going to be a HUGE financial burden (we do not qualify for financial aid)-- but it is a better option that throwing her out on the street. My health and sanity is at stake.

 

I'm confident that dd will excel at the university level. She was an honor's student at the local CC with great recommendations from her instructors.

 

This is the daughter who was my 'best buddy' until she turned 12 (puberty began at 9). She talks fondly about being homeschooled for elementary-- and is pushing me to homeschool her youngest sister, but she LAUGHS at getting away with doing squat for me in high school.

 

--

To address the OP's question, I'd send my child to PS if our family/relationship/life was at stake. I'd also pull a child out of PS for the same reasons.

[sewingmama]

My main reason would be if our children where not getting an adequate education at home - I am not anti-public school - I just think I can do a better job then the local ones at the moment.

 

I guess the next reason would be that I just didn't want to do it anymore. I don't think people should homeschool unless they really are invested in it. If I found I was hating it and starting to take days off and letting things slide -I would put my kids in school. I don't subscribe to the thought -the worst day of homeschool is better then a great day at public school - it's not.

 

Also if I had a child that desperately wanted to go to school - I would let them - if there was no real reason that would make homeschooling more beneficial for them. You can always pull them out if it doesn't work.

[EKS]

Consistent refusal to do school work. Constant arguing during lessons or about school work. That sort of thing.

[Peela]

I put my son in school because we were fighting way too much, and he was resisting me too much in the day to day of our homeschooling. I didnt feel I was getting through to him, or that I was providing the best education that he could/would respond to. He wasn't inspired with anything we were doing. He put far more energy into fighting me than into his work.

 

I felt school would be a change that could be good for him.

I felt school would provide teachers who were experts in their areas, that he could learn from and bounce off.

I wanted him to know what school was like, to realise that I wasn't so bad after all. He wanted to know, too.

We were all curious how he would fare at school, academically, since it is difficult to know when homeschooling....he fared as we should have expected, for him- a B student.

I wanted to have a better relationship with him.

In retrospect, I was burned out. Dd was going off to college- I didn't want to have just him at home.

 

I think him going to school has been a good thing. He is probably coming home again- well, he is home right now and wants to stay home. But if he hadn't been to school, we would be on the same circuit- now we will be starting fresh from a different place. He knows what school is like. He values homeschooling for what it is like. I do not intend to be his motivation anymore- he needs to find that for himself- I am just going to supervise.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Ria]

Ah, sweetie. Take a deep breath.

 

If one comment, on one day, has you questioning your schooling goals, drink a beer, go to bed early, and rethink things in the morning.

 

If this is a child who has been a handful for years, if you have been at your wit's end and back numerous times, then perhaps I can offer my experiences.

 

We homeschooled for over 16 years. Our eldest two (twins) were homeschooled through graduation. This is not to say they were only schooled at home; we had a co-op and they took classes at the community college for two years prior to graduation.

 

DS (child #3) was always my challenging one (major understatement). I can remember saying to dh when this child was 8 that perhaps hs was not the best course for him. It came to a head when he was 15; I simply could not keep him at home any longer. There was no learning going on, only fighting and resentment. And, for me, burnout.

So...I put all four dc in school that Feb (10th, 8th, 6th and 5th grades).

 

You know what? For us it worked...probably because we are very hands-on with education and refused to "hand the kids over" without being involved, probably because we actually have a really fantastic school district, etc.

 

However - big caveat - this worked for us, at a certain point in time. We were ready for the changes and were able to stay on top of school no matter who was teaching. I'm not blind to the fact that many school districts are unable to offer as much to kids as ours is (dear Lord, did that sentence even make grammatical sense?).

 

Pray. Pray hard. Do NOT take one comment on one day as the end all/be all of your homeschool journey. Talk to people, lots of them. Take a week off. Put all else out of your mind....and then slowly, slowly evaluate what is best for your child's growth as a human being overall...not just education, but as the whole person. Then pray more.

 

Homeschooling is more than just education. Know that before you jump ship. I knew, and still made the choice to send the boys to ps. But don't get me wrong - I miss what we had. Homeschooling is awesome. For our family, it was just not for all times.

 

I will pray for you.

 

Ria

[Ester Maria]

13 year olds are not necessarily the best judges of the optimal schooling choice for them - it is a tricky age because they may sound so mature, but in effects, they are typically still governed primarily by hormones. So, if whatever happened with your daughter is a sort of rare blow-up, I would not give it too much weight - on the other hand, if it is a consistent attitude, then I would rethink the issue.

 

Personally, if the situation developed to a point of a true conflict between academics / having the parenting my way / whatever the reasons I homeschool and the relationship with the child, I would err on the side of the relationship. It may not be the optimal situation, but sometimes it may be the best situation that can be made. I would not homeschool a child who did not respond well to it, whether academically (different needs than what I can handle, the existence of better options for that particular child) or socially (opposite personalities, "power games" at home, etc.). I would not even homeschool older children who do respond well, but are capable (on the grounds of thinking it through, not a few hormonal blow-ups) of articulating why they need a different environment and what they would get there that they cannot get in their present schooling situation, with a vision of what kind of environment that would be, and if I felt they would do well.

 

I am not "married" to homeschooling. A public, private or an international school is not the end of the world. One can still lightly afterschool things they find important, but the school does not cover - and, of course, one does not cease to parent because their children are traditionally schooled. A strong home can still do wonders even when children are traditionally schooled. I realize that there are many parents for whom homeschooling is a lifestyle choice and who might disagree with it, but I honestly do not believe that homeschooling is the right choice for all children - in my eyes that attitude seems to be a homeschool version of "one size fits all" that people are trying to escape by homeschooling. :tongue_smilie: I honestly believe that, all things considered, some children are better served by not being homeschooled and insisting on homeschooling them might be counter-productive and ultimately a worse choice for them.

[LidiyaDawn]

 

What would (if anything) make you consider putting your dc in public school?

 

 

 

[i haven't read the thread yet - obviously something happened with you and your teen…i'm sorry that you're hurting.]

 

to answer the question: I'm quite likely enrolling dd14 at the high school in September… the 'what made me consider it' is that it's something she wants to do and I want to respect her choice. :)

[Mrs Mungo]

If they were big enough butt heads. That would do it for me.

[Pink Fairy]

I'm not sure what would make me consider it, but my best guess is that it would be something extremely traumatic, and I would have absolutely no other options. Horrible things happen to people all the time, and since I don't know the future I can't say with total certainty that it would never happen. What I can say with total certainty is that it would break my heart to put my kids in public school.

[Katiebug_1976]

I can't imagine what your son said, and you don't have to tell us, but what if he said you are the worst parent ever? Would that be grounds for quitting as a parent? Not for me, unless I felt it was true. And who hasn't ever said something along those lines (or at least thought it) as a kid?

 

Thank you for posting this. You don't know how encouraging it is to me. I have been going through some pretty rough times with my older dc (they can say some pretty hurtful things when they get frustrated or upset) and I just don't handle it very well anymore. I hate to admit it, but they rattle my cage alot lately. PS is not an option for us, & private school is just too expensive to even think about so we will just have to work it out somehow. Thank you for helping me to remember that I don't have to give up just because they don't like something.

 

 

OP, hang in there. You are not alone and it has to get better, hs or ps, right?

[UnsinkableKristen]

Ours are still very young, but DH and I have said from the start that we will choose whatever is best for each particular child in each particular season of their life.

 

Right now, it is best for our family to be homeschooling. I am doing a better job with my each of our children than the PS would and plan to homeschool them all through high school. However, if at some point I am NOT doing a better job, or if one child is continually unhappy, or if it is doing long-term damage to our family life, then we will step back and reevaluate.

 

Homeschooling is not the hill I choose to die on.

 

 

That said - :grouphug:.

 

Take a step back and get out of the fish bowl for an evening. Everything is magnified when you are there. I hope tomorrow morning you wake up knowing what is best for you all!

[tricia]

HMMMMM, let me think. Oh, I know. NOTHING

[Wabi Sabi]

Ours are still very young, but DH and I have said from the start that we will choose whatever is best for each particular child in each particular season of their life.

 

Right now, it is best for our family to be homeschooling. I am doing a better job with my each of our children than the PS would and plan to homeschool them all through high school. However, if at some point I am NOT doing a better job, or if one child is continually unhappy, or if it is doing long-term damage to our family life, then we will step back and reevaluate.

 

Homeschooling is not the hill I choose to die on.

 

 

Exactly, word for word.

[JaniceO]

 

1) The school could offer more breadth

2) To save relationships within our family - whether that is between sibs or parent & child. Sometimes a little distance is truly better.

3) If I was overwhelmed trying to be everything to everyone and just couldn't do it all anymore.

 

 

Well, my 8th Grader is going to school this coming year for pretty much these reasons. My children fought horribly this past school year and I need to take someone out of the equation to save their relationships. My oldest is smart and needs more than I am currently able to offer him with the attention I have to spend on his siblings.

[twoxcell]

:grouphug: I'm sorry you had a rough day.

Honestly I can not think of anything that would make me put my dc in public school.

[amyco]

What would make me consider putting my child in ps? Well, lots of things. We did in fact enroll dd in 8th grade this year at ps. She starts in 3 weeks. It was a long road getting there. I'd always said that we'd take it one year at a time. But when it came down to it, it was an agonizing decision. I feel better about it now, and hope and pray I don't regret it a year from now.

 

Many factors led to this. I was a little burnt out with the work of it all. The grand plans I had of her reading and loving history etc weren't a reality. She fought me (as in complained) about math and other subjects. Some (history) she just quit doing and I didn't even realize it (see my first reason) until a month later. She got hormonal every month and was just a pain to be around sometimes. So I wanted to stop being her teacher and just be her mom. And truth be told, I'm a wee bit tired of doing this on my own. My dh is completely supportive and no one I know is unsupportive, but all the same I feel isolated with hs.

 

There were 'positive' reasons for putting her in ps too. Our local schools are good and can offer challenging classes (whatever that means). She wants to play softball in high school and I just didn't want to deal with finding a ps team and getting her on it (even though I know we'd be fine and welcome). Pretty much, I had already decided not to homeschool for high school--I realized I was not willing to put in the work required to give her the education I want her to have. So, I figured, why not put her in 8th grade, she can meet a few people and get used to things before she's subjected to an enormous 5A school. Also, she does better work enthusiastically for other teachers (as evidenced by our co-op).

 

It was hard to let it go. I grieved the plans and dreams I had for her. But I think she'll be able to meet them in a different way. And, this summer, she told me she was glad she did Chalkdust prealgebra (a constant issue last year!) because while it was hard, she learned so much. *sigh* Also that she wants to continue Latin. Who knows...

 

I am sorry your child spoke to you so severely. I agree with the posters that relationship is more important than academics...if you don't have a good relationship with your dc, they aren't likely to learn much from you. There is just so much that comes into play when making this decision. Prayers and best wishes. (And sorry this is so long!)

[katilac]

For a kid approaching high school, I'd consider school based on their wishes.

 

For any age, I'd consider it if my child was deeply unhappy or our relationship was suffering (assuming these seemed to be related to hs'ing), or if we had financial issues.

 

I wouldn't seriously consider it based on one hurtful remark from a teen. Depending on what the remark was, I might spend some time thinking about whether he had a point, and whether changes needed to be made, but I wouldn't be dialing the local principal just yet.

 

Teens are very likely to make hurtful remarks to their parents at one point or another. If he didn't home school, he would say something about your parenting skills in general, kwim? Or your appearance, or lack of coolness, or whatever. Teens are just awesome like that, :tongue_smilie:. Sometimes they just say whatever they think will push your buttons; other times, there is genuine truth or at least genuine emotion behind the statement, and their point should be considered in spite of the awful way they presented it.

 

I would talk to him about it, but not until you've achieved a bit of emotional distance, and decided what is and isn't an option.

[creekland]

We finally allowed my youngest back into our local public high school when he became suicidal. We had quite a scare and came to the conclusion that a "lesser" educated alive son was better than a "better" educated buried son.

 

We pulled ours out due to the lack of educational quality at our local school. My older two loved it and did well (they had been in school through 8th and 6th respectively). Youngest finished 4th and was homeschooled from 5th to 8th, but his personality just didn't mesh with homeschooling and he started to dislike it after 6th grade.

 

Now, in ps (about to start 10th) he's doing well and there are no more suicidal issues. He sees every single thing (mainly relating to academics) that caused us to pull him out and agrees that they are real reasons. He's agreeable to working more after school and doing extra in pretty much all of the main four classes to get to the academic standards he is capable of. Yet, even though this would be easier homeschooling, he still wants to be with his peers in ps. His personality is just different and I've gotten ok with that.