'Change is always good'?

[Laura Corin]

We are in the middle of a massive reorganisation at work. I asked a colleague what she thought about a particular development, and she said, 'change is always good'. 

Do you enjoy/value change for its own sake? 

[Starr]

No. Change is not always good and be quite disruptive and non productive.

[Ann.without.an.e]

“Change is sometimes good.”

 

There, fixed it for her 

- - - you’re welcome 😂

[Pawz4me]

I don't think change is always good, but neither do I fear it. IME some people truly do seem to fear, or at least resent, any kind of change. I'm not one of them.

[Indigo Blue]

Oh, yes. Lots of times change is great. There are time, though, it’s not. 😕 I love change, but it may not ALWAYS be good. 
 

There are some situations I’m witnessing right now where the change is wreaking havoc, and the fallout continues to be devastating. (Not for me. It’s stuff I’m observing as an outsider). 

For me, the simplest change can be fun. Arranging furniture or even a new wallpaper on my computer. 

[JennyD]

I don't think anyone -- including your colleague -- actually believes that change is always good.  "Change is always good"(or what I'm guessing is the American version, "Change is good!")  is the sort of thing people say to convey that they are trying to be open-minded about a potential change over which they have no control.  

 

[Indigo Blue]

In the situation I’m speaking of above, “unwillingness to change and move forward” is being used as a way to coerce people into believing that if they aren’t willing to be progressive, it is a moral failing. It’s used to try to make them feel bad and guilty. 

[Pam in CT]

"change is often good and in any event always inevitable"

[HomeAgain]

I've got two minds here:

1. I don't believe change is always good.  I think change, after looking at the way things are done, can be a good thing.  I think someone coming in and throwing their ego on the table to make the change is bad.

2. I do believe that change can be an indicator that the status quo is being looked at.  Whether or not the change itself is good or the recognition of the way things work is good remains to be seen, but getting fresh eyes on something is usually a good thing.

[bolt.]

I don't love change, and I instinctively find myself a bit 'stuck in the mud' anytime significant change is proposed in the organizations I'm involved with -- especially if they involve spending money. However, I recognize this conservationist tendency in myself is an element of my personality and not an accurate assessment of the actual pros and cons of various changes. In general, the vast majority of changes that have been against my nature have been good for those organizations. (And even those that weren't totally 'good' in the universal sense, did at least contribute 'some good things' to the situation.)

[bolt.]

13 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

In the situation I’m speaking of above, “unwillingness to change and move forward” is being used as a way to coerce people into believing that if they aren’t willing to be progressive, it is a moral failing. It’s used to try to make them feel bad and guilty. 

That's a sucky dynamic. It's fair to ask people / an organization to give a fair shake to changes that are well thought out and presented in a reasonable way -- especially if the leader have done some actual *leading* to bring people towards willingness.

It's not fair to expect people to persist in a positive view of a specific change if they are seeing bad outcomes.

It's also not fair to say to people 'you are bad for being unwilling' if the leaders are the ones who haven't successfully led people towards that willingness. People with good leader should be flexible and responsive most of the time. If they aren't -- it's not because they are bad people. It's because the leader doesn't have the skills to measure up to the situation. It's a leader's responsibility to lead, not a person's responsibility to pretend they have been successfully led if they haven't been.

[wintermom]

Change can force us to grow, learn new things and alter our brain patterns. In nature, change can be a kick-start on new life. 

What holds a lot of people back is attitude, perhaps some fear, stress from other sources, etc. 

I do value and embrace change. I get bored with the same old thing. I like variety at home and at work. I'm not afraid to show some weakness in adjusting to changes and learning new things. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by wintermom

[elegantlion]

I do think that change is the only constant - heard that years ago. 

Administrative change is not always good and in some cases destructive and detrimental to the well-being and livelihood of others. [Disclaimer: SO got caught up in the administrative change that was labeled as "good" and ended up losing his career and three years later we are still trying to recover, at an age when new opportunities are not as available - sorry, it's a bit of a trigger for me apparently]

[lovinmyboys]

I love change- but it obviously isn’t all good. We have lived 7 different places since we got married 21 years ago. I love the fresh start and change of pace. 

I will say I like changes that I choose. So, a change at work would not necessarily be something I would like. When I have worked, it did seem like every time we got a new boss they wanted to change things and it mostly just seemed pointless. 

[marbel]

I don't believe change is always good. I also don't believe that "we have always done it this way" is a good reason not to make changes. 

Change should have a purpose,  and be well-thought-out; the people who will be affected by the change should be given explanation of the reasons for the changes (and input if feasible). 

[Pam in CT]

38 minutes ago, lovinmyboys said:

.... I will say I like changes that I choose.

..

I think this is both pretty universal and also the crux of the issue, and explains a great deal beyond the immediate subset of top-down changes that occur in the workplace.

[Terabith]

NO!

Change for its own sake is ridiculous and sucks.  

I mean, some change can be good, if it is needed or makes an improvement, or you want novelty.  But I do not enjoy change or crave it very often, and the changes I like are pretty small ones, like trying a new ice cream flavor.  

[Clemsondana]

Change with a purpose can be good.  Sometimes there is change just to make a change, and there's no reason to think that the new way will be better than the old way.  The line for check-in moves from right to left - let's reverse that!  Group meets at 6:30 - let's change it to 5:30...or 7:30.  Either of those changes could be for the purpose of making something more efficient, or to accommodate a specific group (people needing to be home to put kids to bed, or people who can't get there on time due to work).  But, the original plan was made for a reason so if the new plan isn't made to adapt to some change in the behavior of the people doing the thing, there's no reason to think it will work better.  And sometimes there are downstream effects that aren't predicted.  

I posted on another thread about changes made to the church schedule by a new pastor.  Things were already rocky after a prolonged covid closure.  The schedule he wanted to do has worked at other churches.  I've seen it a previous church, and had a good idea of the pros and cons and thought that in our particular church it would be more disruptive than helpful.  We did it for over a year, and it was highly disruptive to the small groups, particularly the under-50 crowd.  There were people who came a couple of times and couldn't figure out where to settle, since with the disrupted groups there wasn't any base to welcome them to.  Eventually they switched back, but some people were permanently lost. 

The issue in this situation wasn't that the plan was terrible, it was that it wasn't a good fit with the strengths of the people, and the leadership didn't yet know the people and were making decisions based on demographic charts.  Like, the younger demographic doesn't like Sunday School - they prefer midweek small groups!  That may be true in some areas, but in our area many families are heavily invested in kid activities - band, dance, sports, drama, choir.  There is no way for them to commit to other nights.  So, it's fine to add more groups on other days of the week, but if you have a group of people who regularly meet on Sundays it may be because that is the day that is most often available, and the fact that their demographic loves meeting at Panera for dinner doesn't mean that these particular people are free on Tuesday night.  So...well-thought-out change can be good.  Arbitrary change probably isn't.  

[Garga]

3 hours ago, JennyD said:

I don't think anyone -- including your colleague -- actually believes that change is always good.  "Change is always good"(or what I'm guessing is the American version, "Change is good!")  is the sort of thing people say to convey that they are trying to be open-minded about a potential change over which they have no control.  

 

This. The colleague doesn’t believe it either. 

It’s the sort of stuff you say at work to smooth things over and attempt to be a team player while you keep your fingers crossed that the change will in fact be good.
 

If you were complaining about it too much, she just might not have wanted to go into a negative headspace over it and said “Change is always good” just to change the tone of the conversation.

[Laura Corin]

4 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I don't think change is always good, but neither do I fear it. IME some people truly do seem to fear, or at least resent, any kind of change. I'm not one of them.

I've chosen to live a life full of change - I've lived in six countries and three continents.  I've had five distinct careers. I don't in general fear or resent it.

3 hours ago, wintermom said:

 

I do value and embrace change. I get bored with the same old thing. I like variety at home and at work. I'm not afraid to show some weakness in adjusting to changes and learning new things. 

I could more easily be accused of over-confidence in my ability to learn, and I have thrown myself into the re-org - I'm on three working groups to help design the new unit, whereas the 'change is always good' person has volunteered for none of them. 

I think that I've just gone through too much forced change in the past six years, and I've recently learned that I'm also losing my wonderful manager as part of the re-org. I'm walking the walk but I'm secretly just tired. 

[wintermom]

2 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

I've chosen to live a life full of change - I've lived in six countries and three continents.  I've had five distinct careers. I don't in general fear or resent it.

I could more easily be accused of over-confidence in my ability to learn, and I have thrown myself into the re-org - I'm on three working groups to help design the new unit, whereas the 'change is always good' person has volunteered for none of them. 

I think that I've just gone through too much forced change in the past six years, and I've recently learned that I'm also losing my wonderful manager as part of the re-org. I'm walking the walk but I'm secretly just tired. 

You have lived a very full and exciting life. You've also experienced some heavy loss recently. I think that loss and grief can affect our energy levels in subtle ways. It's perfectly ok to be tired and uncertain about having to face a new manager.

All the best with the re-org! I applaud your efforts to throw yourself in there with the working groups! Way to go! Maybe three working groups is a bit much, especially if they all involved many meetings. Extra meetings always sucks up my energy. I like seeing the people, but I like more to work on my own. 😉 

[Laura Corin]

Just now, wintermom said:

You have lived a very full and exciting life. You've also experienced some heavy loss recently. I think that loss and grief can affect our energy levels in subtle ways. It's perfectly ok to be tired and uncertain about having to face a new manager.

All the best with the re-org! I applaud your efforts to throw yourself in there with the working groups! Way to go! Maybe three working groups is a bit much, especially if they all involved many meetings. Extra meetings always sucks up my energy. I like seeing the people, but I like more to work on my own. 😉 

Thanks. The working groups each only meet monthly,  so it's not too much. I'm not convinced that their output will be substantive, but one does what one can. One of them is looking into a new kind of course that I would be interested in administering,  so that's a form of sideways career development. That would be the kind of my-choice change that could be fun.

[Jaybee]

Change is sometimes needed, and sometimes it isn't. Sometimes re-orgs are just attempts for new leadership to make an organization reflect their ideas, and they don't always work. In the corporate world, they sometimes happen before the previous system has hit the "productive" stage, and it just rolls everything over again into the re-org turmoil. I believe there is a process that has to take place before a new system becomes effective, and part of it is that people have to understand it and get used to it before it can run smoothly and start seeing the benefits. The organizations that are constantly in re-org never reach that point of productivity, and it leaves people unsettled and unhappy, and never reaching the point of seeing the returns from their labor.

Personally, we have moved a lot, and after a few years, I start getting restless for another change. I have become so used to it that I look forward to it. I don't expect to move more than one more time--though it could happen, I suppose. But we have now been in this house for 5 years, and the town for 6. That is the longest we have lived in the same house, ever (since we married--our childhoods were very stable). We have lived in towns/cities longer than 6 years, though. I'd be up for moving to a place of our choice in a heartbeat, if we could support ourselves well.

ETA: I meant to include that I do sometimes long for the town of my birth and childhood. It would be nice to be in a place where someone knew me as a child, and knew my family and my background.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Jaybee

[catz]

Sounds like somehing someone who is ready for a change of scenery would say.  Or possibly someone who leans optimistic hoping this change that is coming goes reasonably well because they have no power to influence it.   I wouldn't overthink that simple statement said in context of a particular change.   

I realize I am someone who doesn't love the mundane and do like trying new things, visiting new places, etc.  So in some ways, yes, I like change.  My youngest kid is heading to college next month and I'm both excited and it's bittersweet.  She is heading to a city that I'm going to make a bucket list for and crossing all digits we'll have lots of opportunity to visit.

But at the same time, all change isn't necessarily good.  

[Elizabeth86]

No way. I hate change.

[Not_a_Number]

This is not quite on topic, but I've been thinking about change in the context of my personal life. 

One thing I've seen is that changing things that DO NOT WORK is always good. It doesn't even matter if you change it to something even stupider, because throwing out something bad gets you psychologically unstuck and gives you the space to figure out solutions. 

But in general . . . no, I don't like change. I value ritual and routine. 

[KidsHappen]

I realize that change is sometimes necessary but I don't like it. I don't like surprises either.

[DawnM]

Please tell me this woman doesn't work in public education.   The forced changes we have all endured for the last 20 years are not in any way good.

[Laura Corin]

30 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Please tell me this woman doesn't work in public education.   The forced changes we have all endured for the last 20 years are not in any way good.

She does but not in the US.

[DawnM]

17 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

She does but not in the US.

Wonder if you guys are facing some of the same stuff in education that we are?   

[Laura Corin]

15 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Wonder if you guys are facing some of the same stuff in education that we are?   

Not much at university level. The current upheaval is to do with amalgamating two under performing departments.  It has some merit.

[Meriwether]

Nope. We had decided not to accept any more transfers. We've been in our current location for 10 years now. We found out last week that all people with my husband's job will have to move to a central location. We have lives here that we are pretty invested in.

[Lady Florida.]

21 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

“Change is sometimes good.”

 

There, fixed it for her 

- - - you’re welcome 😂

This 100%. I'm not afraid of change even at my age. Change can be good. But pointless change? Change for the sake of change? No. 

Change for the sake of change should be limited to rearranging your furniture at home just because you're tired of the old arrangement. It can be a new wardrobe (if it's affordable to you). Change "just because" isn't good in a work environment imo. At least not without looking at the status quo and determining if change is needed.

[Hannah]

16 hours ago, Jaybee said:

Sometimes re-orgs are just attempts for new leadership to make an organization reflect their ideas, and they don't always work. In the corporate world, they sometimes happen before the previous system has hit the "productive" stage, and it just rolls everything over again into the re-org turmoil. I believe there is a process that has to take place before a new system becomes effective, and part of it is that people have to understand it and get used to it before it can run smoothly and start seeing the benefits. The organizations that are constantly in re-org never reach that point of productivity, and it leaves people unsettled and unhappy, and never reaching the point of seeing the returns from their labor.

This is SO true for the corporate I work for.  We've had two re-orgs to try and "fix" previous re-orgs and all it does is cause more chaos. None of them were done with proper design or proper change management.  So, change just for the sake of it is definitely not always good.

On a personal level I think change that one chooses can be very enriching.

[Pam in CT]

re change precipitated by contracting demand or other structural factors

7 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

Not much at university level. The current upheaval is to do with amalgamating two under performing departments.  It has some merit.

That's hard.  Those sorts of changes are not arbitrary. 

Still, that doesn't mean that the changes aren't very hard for those affected; nor that the changes will actually stem the underlying problems.

[Laura Corin]

Just now, Pam in CT said:

re change precipitated by contracting demand or other structural factors

That's hard.  Those sorts of changes are not arbitrary. 

Still, that doesn't mean that the changes aren't very hard for those affected; nor that the changes will actually stem the underlying problems.

Yes. I think we are all worn out from working flat out to provide the best education we could to our students during the pandemic. Oh well.

If you go far enough back, the two departments were formerly a single unit. Maybe a couple of decades ago? What goes around comes around. 

[Melissa Louise]

9 hours ago, DawnM said:

Wonder if you guys are facing some of the same stuff in education that we are?   

Maybe not so much at the tertiary level, but secondary and primary across the Anglosphere are known for the adoption of fads, one after the other.

Often non-evidenced.

Change for the sake of chasing the new shiny thing.

Not a fan. 

 

 

 

 

[Murphy101]

On 7/17/2023 at 11:42 AM, Laura Corin said:

We are in the middle of a massive reorganisation at work. I asked a colleague what she thought about a particular development, and she said, 'change is always good'. 

Do you enjoy/value change for its own sake? 

Um.  No. That’s blarney.