Alternative painkillers

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

DH has severe and chronic shoulder pain from an injury that occurred almost a decade ago now. He’s had two surgeries and years of physical therapy, neither of which help.  His doctor has finally told him the amount of ibuprofen and Tylenol he is taking is killing his liver. The recommendation is always for a pain management doctor and opiate; but he does not metabolize opiates correctly and they turn him into someone I don’t know and don’t like, even a low dose.  I cannot emphasize enough how much he cannot have opiates, even though doctors don’t really believe us that his personality literally does a 180.

He’s tried chiropractor, massage(made it worse), acupuncture and TENS.  He’s tried a couple essential oils as well even though he thinks that’s woo and he doesn’t like woo.

Other suggestions? Things I haven’t thought of? We aren’t particularly holistic minded people but are getting no place with allopathic medicine.

 

[itsheresomewhere]

Has he tried massage therapy yet made for those with pain conditions?  That combined with turmeric/ also white willow bark for pain when needed has helped me tremendously. This is used in only certain countries and not the usual massage most here know. Regular massages can send me into muscle spasms and make it worse. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by itsheresomewhere

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

3 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

Has he tried massage therapy yet made for those with pain conditions?  That combined with turmeric/ also white willow bark for pain when needed has helped me tremendously. This is used in only certain countries and not the usual massage most here know. 

It was several years ago and I can’t remember. Fascia release, maybe? The massage therapist used essential oils but I’m sure he didn’t ask what they were.

his shoulder was so inflamed the days afterward that it locked up and he was in worse pain than normal.  

I think part of the issue is that there’s nothing structural that shows.  It started as a torn labrum and rotator cuff. The first surgery failed and they did a second a year later. They’ve done repeat MRIs and one doctor said the pain was coming from his neck and another doctor said it was just residual inflammation. It was a workers comp injury as well so that does limit some of the treatments that will be paid for by them.

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again

[Brittany1116]

Similar situation with a family member. All the efforts you mentioned. Best results with turmeric and Tiger Balm. He also likes oregano and peppermint EOs applied topically, and a heated massage gun. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Brittany1116

[itsheresomewhere]

Just now, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

It was several years ago and I can’t remember. Fascia release, maybe? The massage therapist used essential oils but I’m sure he didn’t ask what they were.

his shoulder was so inflamed the days afterward that it locked up and he was in worse pain than normal.

 

That is not the one to start with at all for this.  What a misinformed massage therapist.  If he wants to try again, message me and I can tell you what to ask and look for. 

[mumof6]

LED light therapy is promising as a drug free pain reliever. It’s been used for years by dentists and also by cancer patients to help with pain. I’ve tried a hand held device a few times and it helped me. SunPowerLED.com

[Katy]

When I had mumps mixing powdered ginger into a paste, spreading it over my swollen chin & jaw and putting a hot wet washcloth over it and a dry hand towel over that for 20 minutes was a miracle worker. 

That led me to researching other herbal anti-inflammatory foods and came up with garlic, ginger, turmeric, and cinnamon. Cassia cinnamon is safer for long term use. 

Since then I’ve had several people recommend a CBD roll on for spot treatment, but I haven’t tried that. 

[Corraleno]

Turmeric (curcumin) has been shown to be effective for pain and inflammation, and can also boost the effect of NSAIDs to allow pain relief with lower doses, so your DH could try combining turmeric with a lower dose of ibuprofen (acetaminophen is the one that damages the liver). From a meta-analysis of 10 studies on turmeric and knee arthritis:

"studies show a reduction in pain and improvement in function similar to that of NSAIDs but with a reduced incidence of adverse events. Turmeric appears to be a safe adjunct to NSAID therapy allowing for additional analgesic benefit as well as a reduced dosage requirement for NSAIDs."

(Note: if he takes blood thinners, he should consult his doctor before starting turmeric)

[Rosie_0801]

Pineapple and bitter melon are also anti-inflammatories.

The end point of tEA brewing is a more powerful antioxidant, however.

[Katy]

Oh yeah, turmeric thins blood so much I avoid it during my period. And I wonder if anyone who should avoid blood thinners should eat or use it. 

[Alice]

Has anyone suggested gabapentin? It works well for neuropathic pain/chronic pain. Either a neurologist or a pain management doctor should be very well-versed in prescribing it. Or a family doctor might be comfortable. 

[regentrude]

Cannabis? I know folks who use it successfully for pain

 

 

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Low dose naltrexone. It doesn’t take away all my pain but it takes the edge off. You can’t take it with opiates but he can’t take opiates anyway. (Neither can I). 

[kbutton]

Things I would check into (not all of which I have done or have evidence for--just ideas to research)...it's harder when they can't pinpoint something

• Different kind of PT--someone creative might help strengthen muscles that can compensate, which can be different than PT for surgical recovery
• Glucosamine and chondroitin
• Extended release tylenol--it lasts longer with a lower dose, assuming his liver doesn't need a hard break forever from it
• Magnesium supplement or lotion
• Arnica cream/gel (and things like Icy Hot, but I have extreme reactions to those)
• Steroid injection (if feasible--might not be the right kind of problem or pain)
• SoftWave Tissue Regeneration Technology (this is definitely not something I know about, but I've heard about)
• Longer lasting NSAID or different class of NSAID (like celebrex)
• Different kind of chiropractic/massage
• Accupuncture
• Muscle relaxers at bedtime

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I think part of the issue is that there’s nothing structural that shows.  It started as a torn labrum and rotator cuff. The first surgery failed and they did a second a year later. They’ve done repeat MRIs and one doctor said the pain was coming from his neck and another doctor said it was just residual inflammation. It was a workers comp injury as well so that does limit some of the treatments that will be paid for by them.

Any chance of a settlement since he has permanent problems?

[prairiewindmomma]

I use a tumeric pill: https://www.amazon.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Curcumin-Provides-Antioxidant/dp/B00TDFL8T0/ref=mp_s_a_1_16?crid=1XPG24JBQNTL2&keywords=curcumin+bcm-95+supplement&qid=1678326124&sprefix=curcumin+bcm%2Caps%2C208&sr=8-16 (any with the patented BCM-95 compound will do) and fish oil as anti-inflammatories. If I keep the inflammation under control, the pain stays under control. Curcumin/tumeric also has hepato-protective properties which is an added side benefit since I take a lot of toxic meds due to other things.

I am in a similar boat—no Tylenol, no opiates, etc. If I needed more control, I would look at low dose naltrexone, light therapy, acupuncture, and medicinal marijuana, in that order.

Does he feel relief when he isn’t using his shoulder heavily? His two jobs are both pretty physical.

[Terabith]

I did something to my shoulder and was having some seriously uncomfortable pain, sometimes up to an 8/10.  I did PT, which helped a lot but not all the way, and muscle relaxer, which helped a lot but not all the way and also made me very sleepy, but I've found that deep water aerobics in particular gives me 24 hours almost pain free.  Which is really kind of a miracle, because I was told to avoid ibuprofen as much as possible because my kidney numbers weren't looking great for a bit.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Terabith

[BeachGal]

Pulsed electromagnetic field therapy works very well for pain. Everyone uses pemf in our family for just about any kind of pain. If you're new to it, you might have to use it twice daily for a period of time until the pain goes away. You can use the devices for hours.

This doctor studies and uses it in his practice and sells reputable devices:

https://www.drpawluk.com/

This is the forum for the scientist who created NASA’s devices. He used them for his own back pain.

https://forum.fluxhealth.co/search?q=Pain

[Harriet Vane]

Topical diclofenac cream

I find that magnesium is downright miraculous for releasing muscle tension. 

I use heat on some areas and cold on others. Heat seems to work well when the pain is related to soft tissue tension. Cold seems to work best on inflammation. 

Arnica 

Turmeric

Sour cherry extract

Edited March 9, 2023 by Harriet Vane
spelling

[matrips]

What about ultrasound treatments?

and Voltaren ointment? It’s like ibuprofen in a gel that you rub on and not ingest.

Edited March 9, 2023 by matrips

[happi duck]

Salon Pas patches?

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

He’s also tried:

Voltarin and every other type of cream

Gabapentin

Celebrex

Trazadone

multiple different kinds of PT with different specialists

CBD oil. Cannabis is legal in our state but he won’t use it.  I think after the opiate disasters he’s afraid of anything he considers substances including cannabis and alcohol.  He had some weird metabolizing issues with alcohol too—he could drink enormous amounts without feeling buzzed. He was concerned that could lead to accidentally drinking too much so now he won’t even have a sip.

i showed him these suggestions and he plans to try all of them lol. He does not take blood thinners so tumeric seems a good place To start.

The pain actually increases when he’s not doing heavy work with it. The best it’s felt is when he was working out five or six times a week and strengthened the muscles around the shoulder.  He stopped during Covid with the gym shut downs but he’s going back this week.

[JennyD]

I recently read an interesting article re psychological management of chronic pain.

[BeachGal]

If he tries pemf, Bob Dennis’s devices would be good but I also really like the Sota device which costs a bit less. About $400-ish. Their old MP6 model would be fine.

https://www.sota.com/default.aspx?page=Magnetic-Pulser

A session on the Sota lasts about 20” but you can do more or less. I’d recommend the slower, deeper speed initially. Position the paddle over the sore area and turn it on. The hard part will be keeping it in position. The paddle is a Tesla coil encased in plastic and has some weight. A rice sock, pillow or tape might help. We use ours as needed while surfing the internet or watching tv.

[Amy in NH]

I second exercise, acupuncture, PEMF, and mindfulness meditation (which I haven't seen mentioned here yet). 

Jon Kabat-Zinn's mindfulness meditation pain management programs have shown amazing success for chronic pain sufferers.

[thatfirstsip]

Has the tried therapy? (Edit: psychotherapy)

Edited March 9, 2023 by thatfirstsip

[J-rap]

Has he tried steroid injections?  There's also a different type of injection, not steroids, but a gel compound that supposedly works differently than steroids.

I've also been hearing about stem cell injections that can help with joint pain.  Not sure if they're approved everywhere yet but I know of someone who has had success with a knee pain that nothing else was helping, even after surgery, steroid injections, etc.

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

i showed him these suggestions and he plans to try all of them lol. He does not take blood thinners so tumeric seems a good place To start.

Curcumin by itself has low bioavailability so ideally it should be taken in combination with piperine, which increases bioavailability by up to 2000%. It should also be taken with some kind of fat since it's fat soluble. I take these, which combine curcumin (95% curcuminoids), Bio-Perine, and coconut oil, but there are other brands with similar combinations.

[HSMWB]

I would add another vote for red light laser therapy as a possible non-invasive help. This seems like a really good list of ‘all the things’ that I have pretty much ever heard for pain. 

[prairiewindmomma]

If he feels better when active, when the muscles around the joint are strong and supportive, has he tried kinesthesiology taping? None of this is going to be a cure, but hopefully he can get his pain down to a tolerable level. 
 

My body is also very much move it or lose it in terms of function and pain tolerance…for me, I don’t think it’s just about fitness. There is something else that happens when I exercise. I am not sure what that is, exactly, but I really wonder about heat shock proteins interacting with pain regulation since I also find so much relief from the hot tub. 
 

 

[KidsHappen]

I find that ice packs and a home TENS machine are both very helpful. Also has he tried synthetic painkillers like Tramdol, Darvon or a muscle relaxer. When I took Tramdol it was more efective than hydrocodone at the 5 mg. dose. Finally tordol now comes in pill form and can be taken at home. Also gabapentin didn't work well for me but pregablin (Lyrica) does. 

[Eos]

Cutting out all forms of nightshades in his diet is another thing to try.  This worked to end my very debilitating lower back pain and continues to keep me pain free.  I get ache-y hands just from cutting potatoes. Even tiny amounts of paprika or ketchup would wreck my back and this list is all my favorite foods - but totally worth it to me for the relief.  My elderly mother also follows it for her severe arthritis and has been off pain meds for a few years.

Tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, peppers, tobacco.  He could try for two weeks and see if there's any change, but he has to be religious about it for those two weeks, read labels, etc. because tomatoes, peppers, and potatoes are in many foods.  If he's someone that puts hot sauce on everything he can use copious amounts of black pepper.

I'm so sorry he's going through this.  Chronic pain is so awful.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Eos

[Ottakee]

I am sure he has tried it but my doctor friend said that studies show that 500g Tylenol plus 200-400mg Advil taken together is as effective as lower doe opioids.   The key is to take a low dose of each but together.

[Pawz4me]

8 hours ago, JennyD said:

I recently read an interesting article re psychological management of chronic pain.

 

8 hours ago, Amy in NH said:

 

Jon Kabat-Zinn's mindfulness meditation pain management programs have shown amazing success for chronic pain sufferers.

Ditto these suggestions.

I have three diagnoses that each cause/contribute to chronic pain. So I'm certainly not saying this in an "it's all in your head" kinda way. All of us with mechanical and/or inflammatory conditions know it's not. But how I allow myself to process things certainly seems to make a significant difference in my perceived pain level at times. I'm a huge huge huge believer in mindfulness.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

2 hours ago, Ottakee said:

I am sure he has tried it but my doctor friend said that studies show that 500g Tylenol plus 200-400mg Advil taken together is as effective as lower doe opioids.   The key is to take a low dose of each but together.

This is what he was doing but he just got routine bloodwork and his liver numbers aren’t great. His doctor told him he needs to back off the OTC meds but had no suggestions other than pain management and opiates.

He has done corticosteroids injections over the years. His orthopedist truly has no idea why he’s in so much pain because nothing shows on an MRI.  Maybe CRPS, but while he’s in pain he’s able to get through the day. Sleep is rough. 

I really appreciate all the suggestions and so does DH. 

[cintinative]

Sending up some prayers now.  

I had bilateral frozen shoulder and that was some of the worst discomfort I have had. Sleeping was horrible. I have so much sympathy for your dh.

At some point during physical therapy, the therapist recommended medical massage.  I agree with prior posters that you want to be careful with this and get someone very experienced.  

The only other thing I can think of--since you said that his pain is better when he is doing heavy work with it--is to find another physical therapist that specializes in athletes/weightlifters.  There may be something your ortho is missing that someone who works with athletes would know about. It's a long shot for sure. 

My mom was on opiates for over 22 years, and I can tell you, even absent of undesirable changes to a person's aspect/personality, those drugs take a toll on the body that cannot be overcome.  I hate to see anyone in pain, but I also hate to see someone deal with what my mom has to every day now.  I am not glad for your dh's pain, but I am glad that he doesn't want to pursue that.  I will pray that something else comes to light. 

[sassenach]

8 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

This is what he was doing but he just got routine bloodwork and his liver numbers aren’t great. His doctor told him he needs to back off the OTC meds but had no suggestions other than pain management and opiates.

He has done corticosteroids injections over the years. His orthopedist truly has no idea why he’s in so much pain because nothing shows on an MRI.  Maybe CRPS, but while he’s in pain he’s able to get through the day. Sleep is rough. 

I really appreciate all the suggestions and so does DH. 

My dh has crps. We've tried it all. It was unclear to me, has he gone to a pain management doctor? They have more tricks than just opiates. 

You've been given an extensive list above. The only thing I don't see is cold plunging. 

As a starting point, has he tried lidocaine patches while sleeping? We use those a lot in the hospital when there is a specific pain point. Has he tried flexeril? It sounds like it's unclear if this is muscle or nerve. Have you seen those pillows that keep you off of your shoulder? I wonder if that might be helpful...

I love CBD cream but dh says it does absolutely nothing for his pain.

Dh's CRPS flares like an autoimmune disease. It's best when we help him head off the flares. The number one thing is protecting the limb from the cold. 

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

Yes to lidocaine patches.  He has seen a pain management doctor who said he had tried everything the doctor would have suggested other than a low dose of opiates.   At least one of his physical therapists was an athletic therapist who specialized in shoulders.

The injury was in 2013.  His first surgery was 2015. We have been dealing with this a long time.

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again

[cintinative]

OP, when was his last MRI?
 

That is just HORRIBLE that he has been dealing with that since 2013.  UGGGGH.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

8 minutes ago, cintinative said:

OP, when was his last MRI?
 

That is just HORRIBLE that he has been dealing with that since 2013.  UGGGGH.

Last August,  they were checking to see if the labrum had torn again because he was in excruciating pain. Nothing showed. It’s very frustrating.  And his reaction to opiates just make everything harder, especially if he does need another surgery at this point.  
 

[TravelingChris]

TrileptalIs it neeve pain? Lidocaine in any form including pain pump.  Also currently on amytetptilline but will be switching to a non anti cholirgernic as soon as I can get ist to write the low dose I nerd to start w/of Trileptal 

[Kassia]

3 hours ago, sassenach said:

My dh has crps. We've tried it all. It was unclear to me, has he gone to a pain management doctor? They have more tricks than just opiates. 

 

 

Maybe I should start a new thread for this - can you tell me (or PM) what a pain management doctor does?  After spending thousands on diagnostics and office visits, my doctor told me that's the next step.  I'm so frustrated.  

[Amy in NH]

6 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

 

Ditto these suggestions.

I have three diagnoses that each cause/contribute to chronic pain. So I'm certainly not saying this in an "it's all in your head" kinda way. All of us with mechanical and/or inflammatory conditions know it's not. But how I allow myself to process things certainly seems to make a significant difference in my perceived pain level at times. I'm a huge huge huge believer in mindfulness.

Agreeing that meditation is more than just an approach or attitude to pain.  The reason we experience reduced pain after exercise is due to myokines - muscle contractions create endorphins that block the pain, like natural morphine.  There are scholarly studies showing that meditation can produce more endorphins than even exercise.

[Ottakee]

3 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

Last August,  they were checking to see if the labrum had torn again because he was in excruciating pain. Nothing showed. It’s very frustrating.  And his reaction to opiates just make everything harder, especially if he does need another surgery at this point.  
 

Would a skilled surgeon be willing to go in and look?  My daughters CT didn’t show anything but once the doctor was in there he could see the issues with her elbow.

[Lecka]

My husband has had improvement from Lexapro and less stress (or better stress management).  I think he is just less tense.  
 

But he sounds less severe.  He has a TENS unit and mostly doesn’t need it, but when he needs it he does get relief from it.  But he used to use it much more.  
 

We have also been told they can’t go off an MRI.  My understanding is my husband is better off than expected from his MRI, but they don’t want him to think he should be worse off.

 

He was being treated in a pain clinic before we moved.  But he is better now than he was then.  He left a stressful job when we moved as well.  
 

It’s hard to know.  
 

Edit:  they also said you really can’t tell from MRIs, that some people are clearly having problems that don’t show up in an MRI, and then other people have more on an MRI but less problems.  They said they really don’t go off of MRIs.  I hope things aren’t minimized with not showing up on an MRI.  I was told I was not being productive with wanting to pay attention to that (in a very nice way l, I appreciated it).  I was being how I thought I was supposed to be, because I thought things were a different way, basically.  

Edited March 9, 2023 by Lecka

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have had the red laser light therapy for acute injuries in order to keep them from becoming part of my chronic pain.  It has helped.  Again - not a magic bullet but it seemed to promote faster repair in the region and lessened the level of inflammation. 

I'm surprised that he wasn't on prescribed NSaids previously that have less severe impact on the liver.  Meloxicam (Mobic) is one that I was on.  It can cause liver problems but it's rarer than the OTC drugs available. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

3 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I have had the red laser light therapy for acute injuries in order to keep them from becoming part of my chronic pain.  It has helped.  Again - not a magic bullet but it seemed to promote faster repair in the region and lessened the level of inflammation. 

I'm surprised that he wasn't on prescribed NSaids previously that have less severe impact on the liver.  Meloxicam (Mobic) is one that I was on.  It can cause liver problems but it's rarer than the OTC drugs available. 

He was for a while in the mid 2010s but they really didn’t help. The Tylenol/NSAID combo is the only thing other than opiates that has ever taken the edge off.  Nothing has ever taken the pain away completely, he just needs the edge taken off enough to manage.

im going to google the red light therapy as I’ve never heard of that.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again

[Lecka]

My husband was in a pain clinic….. so, when he was in the pain clinic, he was getting relief from the chiropractor especially a back board thing.  
 

I went to the intake with him which included talking to a psychologist.  
 

They also offered PT, yoga, acupuncture, and…. That’s what I can remember.  Oh, also a water PT class.  Like — a water exercise class taught by a PT.  
 

My husband was given muscle relaxants, lidocaine patches, and a tens unit.  Out of those he only liked the tens unit.  
 

The psychologist in his case said he had a high pain tolerance and that this was common in his job.  He said it was good to stay active and not think the pain should be limiting.  We only saw him at the intake, for whatever reason.  

 

His stress level and tension are a lot better sense he did go to counseling and has been taking Lexapro.  It’s basically replaced going to the chiropractor twice a month.  After we moved he didn’t like the chiropractor anymore, he just did not.  He doesn’t go anymore.  
 

At a time his back was bad he was also having TMJ issues, with his jaw.  Well that is very exacerbated by stress and apparently clenching his jaw during his sleep.  He also had sleep apnea (I honestly don’t think he has it anymore).  He had severe sleep apnea at the time, they were very surprised because he was a normal weight but he had a really high number of sleep disturbances at his sleep study.  He was not expected to have sleep apnea at all.  But it turns out there is a relationship between sleep apnea, TMJ, and PTSD.  His jaw has not bothered him a in a couple of years now, too, it really was only bad for one period, but it had bothered him on and off, too.  So that might come back but it hasn’t yet. 
 

Anyway — that’s some info about a pain clinic my husband went to.  They offered various things, and would recommend some, and then some things were options they said some people tried and some didn’t, it was up to the person.  My husband was not going to try yoga or acupuncture and that was completely fine with them.  
 

 

[Harriet Vane]

Just remembered a major, amazing one:

MAT adjustments

stands for Muscle Activation Technique

My PT does this. It’s so gentle that I was extremely skeptical, but I became a believer because it really works. The practitioner puts you in a funny position and you either push, pull, or resist what the practitioner is doing. This basically tugs the joint or vertebrae into place.

And another one that made a huuuuuuuge difference is dry needling. Again, I was skeptical because I didn’t really get anything from acupuncture. However, dry needling was the only thing that finally broke up a really locked down injury—it was helpful for my neck+left shoulder and also for lateral epicondalitis. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

45 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

Just remembered a major, amazing one:

MAT adjustments

stands for Muscle Activation Technique

My PT does this. It’s so gentle that I was extremely skeptical, but I became a believer because it really works. The practitioner puts you in a funny position and you either push, pull, or resist what the practitioner is doing. This basically tugs the joint or vertebrae into place.

And another one that made a huuuuuuuge difference is dry needling. Again, I was skeptical because I didn’t really get anything from acupuncture. However, dry needling was the only thing that finally broke up a really locked down injury—it was helpful for my neck+left shoulder and also for lateral epicondalitis. 

So that’s what that PT technique is called!  It’s the only thing that will release my muscles sometimes.  

[sassenach]

9 hours ago, Kassia said:

Maybe I should start a new thread for this - can you tell me (or PM) what a pain management doctor does?  After spending thousands on diagnostics and office visits, my doctor told me that's the next step.  I'm so frustrated.  

Some of the treatments Dh got at the pain clinic:

high dose topical capsaicin- went spectacularly bad

Stellate ganglion block- really helpful but short lived. Had some hope that treatments would build but his 3rd or 4th treatment went really poorly so dh discontinued

5 day ketamine infusion- didn't have any long term benefit.

I think I'm missing some other treatments...they tried a variety of prescription meds

Dh found his best relief through psychotherapy (though it wasn't specifically aimed at pain management). As he states it, therapy helped him to learn how to live with the pain by helping him process what the pain was taking away from him. As an outsider, I would also say that exercise and keeping our home at an overall warmer level also helped. He's also a motorcycle rider and he experiences a lot of pain relief from that (something about the vibration + stress relief). He hasn't been on opioids for years, though I'm grateful for the role they played in his recovery. When he needed them, he really needed them. His pain is nerve pain, but he does spectacularly bad on Neuro meds and has not been able to tolerate any of those.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by sassenach