Teens and Dating and Religion -Oh my.

[BlsdMama]

My rather lovely 16yo has a wonderful friend. They’ve gotten closer and closer over the past couple months and it’s obvious to all their friends they’re interested in the other. He really is one of her best friends.

A different denomination is doable. My second daughter converted to Orthodox. This difference is much bigger and each of them has strong individual beliefs in this area.

 I’m so sad for them. They had a talk last night further affirming their resolve but they’re sad. 
 

🤷🏼‍♀️ 

[ktgrok]

17 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

My rather lovely 16yo has a wonderful friend. They’ve gotten closer and closer over the past couple months and it’s obvious to all their friends they’re interested in the other. He really is one of her best friends.

A different denomination is doable. My second daughter converted to Orthodox. This difference is much bigger and each of them has strong individual beliefs in this area.

 I’m so sad for them. They had a talk last night further affirming their resolve but they’re sad. 
 

🤷🏼‍♀️

Ugh, that's so hard. And even though we all know that at 16 there is a lot of time to find the right person, when you ARE the 16 yr old, that's not helpful. 

[Guest]

Did your child bring this up to you? And with what context? Is your child upset because of it? 
 

I guess I’m asking because I know a lot of “incompatible” couples who have made it work. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[City Mouse]

I don’t understand what the problem is, but then again, I am not religious.

[ktgrok]

6 minutes ago, City Mouse said:

I don’t understand what the problem is, but then again, I am not religious.

There are a lot of things that can make marriage hard. Different strongly held beliefs, be that politics or religion or parenting strategies, are some of them. Can compromise be reached? Sometimes, depending on the religions involved, the amount that religion plays into other parts of life, etc. For instance, a Catholic mother who is dead set on being Catholic would need to raise her children in the Catholic church. A Jew would find the idea of Jesus being part of the Godhead blasphemy. In marriages where neither is particularly devout it can work...but otherwise, having one parent teaching the children things you find to be blasphemous is going to be a real struggle. 

Even when one is moderate in their religious belief and the other is agnostic it can add a lot of hardship. BTDT. 

[catz]

6 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

 

Even when one is moderate in their religious belief and the other is agnostic it can add a lot of hardship. BTDT. 

Sure but I have a hard time wrapping my head around expending too much energy grieving a relationship with a couple 16 year olds.  This is a good way to practice and find your deal breakers for later.  Guessing both are likely to make better decisions later based on what they've learned.  I mean 16 year olds "break up" all the time for a multitude of good and bad reasons.  I dated in high school, I remember how hard and all encompassing it felt.  I kind of regret giving so much emotional energy to it at the time.  

Sorry your kiddo is upset though BlsdMama!  As a parent, having an upset teen is always tough.  

Edited February 15, 2023 by catz

[Momof4sweetkids]

I would be so proud of my dd for holding her stance as a teen in that circumstance.

[Ann.without.an.e]

That is hard but if they are both strong headed in opposite directions it is good that they were able to talk about it now and go their separate ways. As hard as it may be, if it is a core value (ie something that defines you) and it is incompatible, it will just be more painful to drag it out. 

ETA: I made a similar decision at 16. A really sweet guy. He was Mormon, I am not. It really hit me when his family sat me down and had a convo to make sure I would be ok with raising my kids in the Mormon church (I was not). I made a decision to part ways and I have no doubt it was the best decision for us both. I was growing in my own faith and would have ended it eventually anyway since our beliefs were very very different.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Ann.without.an.e

[TexasProud]

Glad they are mature enough to see it, but yeah, togh.

[MercyA]

I'm sad for them, too. That's so hard. 😞 

16-year-old feelings are just as real and valid as adult feelings. ❤️

They both sound very mature.

[BlsdMama]

2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Ugh, that's so hard. And even though we all know that at 16 there is a lot of time to find the right person, when you ARE the 16 yr old, that's not helpful. 

Exactly!

2 hours ago, Quill said:

Did your child bring this up to you? And with what context? Is your child upset because of it? 
 

I guess I’m asking because I know a lot of “incompatible” couples who have made it work. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yeah, it’s been an ongoing conversation. She’d been to his youth group a couple times when we checked out his church’s teaching. We’re non-denominational and trinitarian. His church believes the Trinity is actually polytheist. It’s a pretty big chasm. One of my best friends is Catholic and married a Protestant. DH and I were cradle Catholics and I became Protestant. I have a cousin who is Catholic and married a Jewish man but neither are deeply committed to their own faith. Inevitably, if both feel strongly, it is difficult to decide how children are raised. Abigail is aware, probably because of our background and because of my friend. Their circle of friends have had some theological discussions around this lately because his church also is evangelical. 
 

Is she upset? She’s sad. He brought it up last night but he has been trying to help me understand their beliefs. He is very logical, persuasive, and well spoken. Great young man. After their talk last night she discussed it with me. She’s just sweet, one of the most genuinely sweet people I’ve ever met. They’re both very academically gifted so they challenge one another, they’re on the same team, so hours of practice. 

2 hours ago, City Mouse said:

I don’t understand what the problem is, but then again, I am not religious.

Imagine you think sugar is horrid. Your husband thinks sugar is a necessary food group. One stuffs their children with sugar. The other constantly deprives their children. Imagine this is of primary importance to both parents. Kinda like that on a grand scale. 😏 

1 hour ago, catz said:

Sure but I have a hard time wrapping my head around expending too much energy grieving a relationship with a couple 16 year olds.  This is a good way to practice and find your deal breakers for later.  Guessing both are likely to make better decisions later based on what they've learned.  I mean 16 year olds "break up" all the time for a multitude of good and bad reasons.  I dated in high school, I remember how hard and all encompassing it felt.  I kind of regret giving so much emotional energy to it at the time.  

Sorry your kiddo is upset though BlsdMama!  As a parent, having an upset teen is always tough.  

I think I’d agree with you but my oldest married her first boyfriend and my second daughter married the guy who was one of her best friends at 16. 😉 

1 hour ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

That is hard but if they are both strong headed in opposite directions it is good that they were able to talk about it now and go their separate ways. As hard as it may be, if it is a core value (ie something that defines you) and it is incompatible, it will just be more painful to drag it out. 

ETA: I made a similar decision at 16. A really sweet guy. He was Mormon, I am not. It really hit me when his family sat me down and had a convo to make sure I would be ok with raising my kids in the Mormon church (I was not). I made a decision to part ways since it was such a big deal to them that I convert.

Very much like that. They shared a coach a couple years ago that was dating another coach for three years. They broke up last year and I suspect it is one reason it was on their radar? It’s definitely north the best and maybe harder part of our homeschool group? Families who are homeschooling for (partly) religious reasons but not the same belief systems. They’re really challenged in do you believe X? Why? I love that part but the relationships are definitely complex. 

[katilac]

5 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

 ETA: I made a similar decision at 16. A really sweet guy. He was Mormon, I am not. It really hit me when his family sat me down and had a convo to make sure I would be ok with raising my kids in the Mormon church (I was not). I made a decision to part ways since it was such a big deal to them that I convert.

Wow, I can't imagine talking to a 16-yr-old my kid was dating about potential marriage and children! 

[Ann.without.an.e]

18 hours ago, katilac said:

Wow, I can't imagine talking to a 16-yr-old my kid was dating about potential marriage and children! 

 I hadn't really thought that far and when they forced me to think through it more I opted out so it was good in the long run.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Ann.without.an.e

[GoVanGogh]

My DH and I have been married 35+ years. We were of vastly different religious preferences until just the past few years. We were also vastly different in our support of political parties and always joked about canceling out each other’s vote. That said, we did agree on the big political issues, just that we saw solutions differently. The last few elections have swayed one of us from one side to the other. I do realize that may not work for all marriages, but I do think opposites attract. That is certainly the case for us. 

[mom2scouts]

10 hours ago, katilac said:

Wow, I can't imagine talking to a 16-yr-old my kid was dating about potential marriage and children! 

Two of my kids are married. Both of them married the person they were dating at 16. There absolutely is the potential for marriage and children at that age.

[Ann.without.an.e]

21 minutes ago, mom2scouts said:

Two of my kids are married. Both of them married the person they were dating at 16. There absolutely is the potential for marriage and children at that age.

I encouraged my own kids not to date someone they wouldn't marry since their long term goal was marriage. It is ok to date someone and not marry them and you definitely don't have to marry the first person you date but if you want to get married then you shouldn't date people you know you wouldn't marry. Just my little opinion. I've know too many girls to compromise because they became overly attached to someone who wasn't good for them or didn't have aligning goals and values. 

ETA: One DD was married at 20, the other 22, and DS was engaged at 20 (they will wait a little while to get married so she can finish school). So who they date at a younger age can indeed be who they end up with. Not everyone waits until 30. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Ann.without.an.e

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I encouraged my own kids not to date someone they wouldn't marry since their long term goal was marriage. It is ok to date someone and not marry them and you definitely don't have to marry the first person you date but if you want to get married then you shouldn't date people you know you wouldn't marry. Just my little opinion. I've know too many girls to compromise because they became overly attached to someone who wasn't good for them or didn't have aligning goals and values. 

Exactly.  Seems very wise advice to me. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

11 hours ago, katilac said:

Wow, I can't imagine talking to a 16-yr-old my kid was dating about potential marriage and children! 

Any dating partner was always viewed as a potential marriage partner in my FOO regardless of age.  When I was 16 I was madly in love and likely would have married someone who’s religious beliefs(very fundamental at that time, parents were missionaries, John MacArthur church affiliated mission group) were wholly incompatible with mine. My parents wisely kept pointing out the incompatibilities though due to the circumstances it would have been very easy to ignore them(long distance relationship due to missionary activities). But in our home then dating was for the purpose of finding a marriage partner, and if you were incompatible for lifelong commitments there was no point in dating and becoming emotionally involved.

Frankly this is the same stance we’ll be taking with our children and how DH and I approached our own dating relationship, though we were mid to late 20s at that point. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again

[marbel]

I also cautioned my young adults about getting heavily involved with someone who was incompatible with regard to faith, or even getting very involved early on/at a young age, even if the relationship continued. My daughter met the young man I hope will be my son-in-law when they were 17. My basic advice was "keep it light and don't become so involved that if/when a breakup happens, someone's heart is broken." I wanted to protect her and him as much as a parent can. (And I'll admit that a wee part of me who didn't know this boy didn't want to deal with someone's post-breakup anger and drama. Now that I know him well I laugh at myself for that, but I think based on my observations of others, it seems it may be a valid concern.) 

Of course people do change; I've known people who married within their faith and then one of the couple changed (loss of faith, change in belief) which would also be very hard. So there's no way to predict the future, but people can try to think ahead.

I can absolutely see a very devout person/family wanting to ensure that a potential marriage partner knew what they were getting into, particularly if the couple come from vastly different faith backgrounds. 

[cintinative]

OP, I think your dd's decision shows a lot of maturity. That doesn't make it any easier, I know.

 

[denarii]

1 hour ago, mom2scouts said:

Two of my kids are married. Both of them married the person they were dating at 16. There absolutely is the potential for marriage and children at that age.

I married the person I dated when I was 15. We split for almost a decade before getting back together after uni😅.

[shawthorne44]

It can be a problem even when one of them isn't devout.   I'm Christian and I'd been engaged to a very non-devout Jew.  Since he wasn't devout, I didn't think it would be a problem.   But for our kids to be Jewish, I'd have to convert and that was something I didn't know - that the mom has to be Jewish.  I saw converting as denying Christ.   

The rest of the story is that he married the next girl he dated.   She said she wanted kids but just not right away and was willing to convert.  Many years later, she confessed that she'd lied and never wanted kids but wanted to be married.  They divorced.   His only sibling, a sister, also never had kids.  His mother hated me with a purple passion when we were dating, and apparently she was behind the conversion "My grandkids must be Jewish" thing.  She regretted that since she ended up with no grandkids.  I know all this because he stayed friends with my dad and it was a blow to him when my DD's photos appeared at my parents house.  

[BlsdMama]

1 hour ago, cintinative said:

OP, I think your dd's decision shows a lot of maturity. That doesn't make it any easier, I know.

 

It’s funny that she’s so grown up… She is our (exact) middle child. I think she was just born this way. She’s such a fun human to be near. I was a little surprised when she became interested. She’s had a couple young men ask her out and while she said yes to a prom date, she made it clear it was as friends. I think her feelings for him snuck up on her. 
 

When first DD was younger we were far more “date intentionally” minded. I think, lately,  I’d prefer none of my kids date in high school and just be friends for now, have fun in groups, and date in college. DS has now sworn off dating because, “It’s too complicated,” graduating in May and headed for FT Army. I assume he’ll meet The One about April. 😜 

I think there’s so many things you can compromise on, but if either is passionate about their faith, religion probably shouldn’t be one of them. Raising kids in mixed faiths, when both parents feel strongly, is not for the faint of heart. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

19 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

The rest of the story is that he married the next girl he dated.   She said she wanted kids but just not right away and was willing to convert.  Many years later, she confessed that she'd lied and never wanted kids but wanted to be married.  They divorced.   His only sibling, a sister, also never had kids.  His mother hated me with a purple passion when we were dating, and apparently she was behind the conversion "My grandkids must be Jewish" thing.  She regretted that since she ended up with no grandkids.  I know all this because he stayed friends with my dad and it was a blow to him when my DD's photos appeared at my parents house.  

 

Younger DD was in a relationship where they were religiously compatible but not in lifestyle. He had a hobby that was a lifestyle, and the whole family really had to be involved or never see him. It was 9-10 months of the year and extremely consuming for both time and money. DD loved him but the environment is less than stellar for kids and he wanted his kids involved. When his mentor was almost killed in a accident related to this hobby (DD was there when it happened) she walked away from the relationship. His mom was very adamant that he could NOT give up his hobby for a girl even though she really liked DD a lot. She said he would always regret it and resent DD. DD didn't force him to make a choice, per se, she just said it wasn't what she wanted and he said he couldn't let it go. They went different directions. He reached out to her the night of her first date with SIL and he told her he regretted his decision and didn't know what to do anymore. She met SIL and their goals lined up so much better and it was an instant connection. As soon as DD announced her engagement, her ex boyfriend dropped the hobby completely and has no interest in it now. I think it was a gut punch for him and he regrets what he gave up for it. Young love is so hard and gut wrenching. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Ann.without.an.e

[teachermom2834]

I feel like this is such a hard balance. I have seen a bad outcome in super conservative circles where courtship is pushed and even if it isn’t called that anymore there is so much seriousness put on very young kids and teen interests that really can be toxic. I really want to lean to the other direction of “don’t worry about any of that” and “just have fun” etc. but then it is true that some of these relationships certainly can and do last. I guess it is something I would discuss in the abstract but not go as far as sitting a child down for a serious discussion. Other people have sat my children down for such discussions and I’m not a fan. 
 

What I really want is for all of them to just wait until they are older and it makes sense to date with intention to think about the future.  While I know many of you here have managed to just appeal to your children’s common sense that it doesn’t make sense to get mixed up in dating in high school, all I can say is that is not my experience with my children. Wish it was!

I am glad to only have one left to go and have three grown and old enough to be navigating this stuff on their own. But my last one is showing she isn’t going to be easier, I don’t think. 

[BlsdMama]

1 hour ago, teachermom2834 said:

I feel like this is such a hard balance. I have seen a bad outcome in super conservative circles where courtship is pushed and even if it isn’t called that anymore there is so much seriousness put on very young kids and teen interests that really can be toxic. I really want to lean to the other direction of “don’t worry about any of that” and “just have fun” etc. but then it is true that some of these relationships certainly can and do last. I guess it is something I would discuss in the abstract but not go as far as sitting a child down for a serious discussion. Other people have sat my children down for such discussions and I’m not a fan. 
 

What I really want is for all of them to just wait until they are older and it makes sense to date with intention to think about the future.  While I know many of you here have managed to just appeal to your children’s common sense that it doesn’t make sense to get mixed up in dating in high school, all I can say is that is not my experience with my children. Wish it was!

I am glad to only have one left to go and have three grown and old enough to be navigating this stuff on their own. But my last one is showing she isn’t going to be easier, I don’t think. 

I think the harder part of that courtship mentality is that it's like the family is dating the kid? There's just *so* much input and pressure.

I was raised the polar opposite. It was expected I'd do my entire young adult life *for fun* with zero intentionality and that was messy too. I adore DH and I'm grateful we ended up together, but I was that nightmare of a teen with no regard to the future. My high school boyfriend is still in prison for intent to deliver... So I appreciate the "date with intentionality" mindset.

[teachermom2834]

1 minute ago, BlsdMama said:

I think the harder part of that courtship mentality is that it's like the family is dating the kid? There's just *so* much input and pressure.

I was raised the polar opposite. It was expected I'd do my entire young adult life *for fun* with zero intentionality and that was messy too. I adore DH and I'm grateful we ended up together, but I was that nightmare of a teen with no regard to the future. My high school boyfriend is still in prison for intent to deliver... So I appreciate the "date with intentionality" mindset.

You are right about the part of courtship with the family dating the kid. Ugh. BTDT. So so so not a fan. That is probably what I am reacting to. 
 

My idea of “just for fun” is totally not a hands off let your kid run wild situation. I feel like everytime I have said I am not into the courtship model or not going to have my dh do a sit down conversation with any boy before he texts my dd it is taken as if I am saying I am encouraging promiscuity and that could just not be further from the truth. I’m so super strict with my kids. But I just feel like I saw so much fallout from treating any crush like they were “the one” by the whole family that I just don’t want to go there. 
 

I think what I am trying to get at is not elevating every teen interest to the level of dating the family as you say. But the big questions as to what makes good partners are discussions that can start very early on- before there is even specific players involved.  Even if a romance started at 16 doesn’t lead to marriage it can tie kids up into their late teens and early twenties in a way that changes the trajectory of their lives for sure. 
 

But all that was off topic…just jumping off of some other comments posters made. I do think your dd did a good job, OP, and it is tough to watch our kids go through these things but I know you are proud of her decision making. 

[shawthorne44]

I know several couples who married their high school sweetheart but much later.   They broke up mainly because *everyone* was telling them they were too young for marriage, went different paths after high school, married other people, divorced, ran into each other again and quickly realized that they should never have broken up then married quickly and happily.   

Not that I'm saying people should marry young.   I'm convinced that God kept us apart until we were ready for each other.  It is freaky the near misses we had.   

Two things that I will tell DD when she gets to dating age.  
1) Don't date anyone who isn't marriage material.  

2) Don't go exclusive until you convinced that he is The One.  

 

Somehow I got the idea that you only dated one person at a time.   So things got serious quickly.  Like by the second date I was exclusive. Shortly after I'd dumped Mistake, the bf before DH, I was chatting with my mom.   She said she'd accidentally made dates with three different boys on the day of her first date with Dad.  She didn't keep a calendar.   One date was to the Winter Ball, one date was for "Next Saturday" and another was for that date.   Dad lived on a farm and she couldn't reach him by phone, so he got the date.   So, I decided to give that a try, which was good because DH was my third favorite bf for a few months.  
 

[vonfirmath]

17 hours ago, katilac said:

Wow, I can't imagine talking to a 16-yr-old my kid was dating about potential marriage and children! 

Even at 16, I knew not to be dating anyone I was not willing to marry.

I have encouraged my kids, at 4th, 5th, 6th grade not to even THINK about dating.  Dating is about looking for a partner to marry. You can go do things with friends, guy and girl, without making it a big romantic thing and getting feelings entangled when you can do nothing about it other than get hurt.

 

[Sneezyone]

49 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

Two things that I will tell DD when she gets to dating age.  
1) Don't date anyone who isn't marriage material.  

2) Don't go exclusive until you convinced that he is The One.   
 

We offer this advice too but probably not for the same reasons. 1) dates are expensive, 2) it takes some time to be able to define what ‘marriage material’ means for you (which goes beyond compatible life goals/approaches, is near impossible to ascertain at 16, and includes physical compatibility), and 3) DH and I have zero desire to invest our time and energy making friends with your temporary “boo’s” who aren’t gonna last. When either kid brings home the one, we’ll know. Until then, they all get polite greetings and no more.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

17 hours ago, katilac said:

Wow, I can't imagine talking to a 16-yr-old my kid was dating about potential marriage and children! 

We do. Not as a hey, this means marriage 2-4 years down the line but as a hey, is this really someone you want to swap spit/share DNA with? IJS. Think long and haaard about this connection. It seems to do the trick without invoking hellfire and brimstone.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Rosie_0801]

17 hours ago, katilac said:

Wow, I can't imagine talking to a 16-yr-old my kid was dating about potential marriage and children! 

There are few things more important in life. I started when my dd was 3 with "No Mr Wickhams!" 😂

[Drama Llama]

10 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

We offer this advice too but probably not for the same reasons. 1) dates are expensive, 2) it takes some time to be able to define what ‘marriage material’ means for you (which goes beyond compatible life goals/approaches, is near impossible to ascertain at 16, and includes physical compatibility), and 3) DH and I have zero desire to invest our time and energy making friends with your temporary “boo’s” who aren’t gonna last.

Other than kissing, which is free, my kid does pretty much exactly the same thing on the majority of his  "dates" with his "girlfriend" as he does with his other friends.  A lot of what they do is free, like walking the dog, or playing basketball, or baking cookies together (OK not free, but using ingredients I paid for), and a lot of the rest is things like going to the rock climbing gym.  They do, occasionally, like to pretend to be adults and go to a sit down restaurant, and her parents and I have each bought them a pair of tickets to a concert or a show as a birthday gift, which they went to together, but those are a tiny portion of their dates.  

You can also call me old fashioned, but I'd rather my kid did those kinds of things with someone before he began exploring whether he was physically compatible with them.  

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, BandH said:

Other than kissing, which is free, my kid does pretty much exactly the same thing on the majority of his  "dates" with his "girlfriend" as he does with his other friends.  A lot of what they do is free, like walking the dog, or playing basketball, or baking cookies together (OK not free, but using ingredients I paid for), and a lot of the rest is things like going to the rock climbing gym.  They do, occasionally, like to pretend to be adults and go to a sit down restaurant, and her parents and I have each bought them a pair of tickets to a concert or a show as a birthday gift, which they went to together, but those are a tiny portion of their dates.  

You can also call me old fashioned, but I'd rather my kid did those kinds of things with someone before he began exploring whether he was physically compatible with them.  

I consider kissing part of ascertaining physical compatibility. We don’t encourage sex but we don’t poo-poo it either. I can’t imagine anything less comfy, for me…long term, than a miserable sex life.

[Drama Llama]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

I consider kissing part of ascertaining physical compatibility. We don’t encourage sex but we don’t poo-poo it either. I can’t imagine anything less comfy, for me…long term, than a miserable sex life.

I consider it to be too.  I guess I can't imagine saying to my kid -- don't spend time with her 1:1 (which is basically all a date is) until you've kissed enough to know you might want to marry her.  

But maybe I am misunderstanding your post.  

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, BandH said:

I consider it to be too.  I guess I can't imagine saying to my kid -- don't spend time with her 1:1 (which is basically all a date is) until you've kissed enough to know you might want to marry her.  

But maybe I am misunderstanding your post.  

Yes, not what I mean. Our peeps are free to date. They also know that bringing someone home is more than a lark, nice gesture.

Bringing someone home for dinner means it’s a potential life partner and we’ll treat them accordingly. DH and I don’t know ‘dates’ well. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Sneezyone

[PaxEtLux]

20 minutes ago, BandH said:

  I guess I can't imagine saying to my kid -- don't spend time with her 1:1 (which is basically all a date is) until you've kissed enough to know you might want to marry her.  

Maybe I'm confused by terminology, but are you saying go out and  kiss a bunch of people you aren't "dating"?  In my world, kind of by definition, anyone I kissed I was dating.

[Drama Llama]

Just now, PaxEtLux said:

Maybe I'm confused by terminology, but are you saying go out and  kiss a bunch of people you aren't "dating"?  In my world, kind of by definition, anyone I kissed I was dating.

I was saying the opposite.  @Sneezyone seemed to be saying she tells her kids not to date anyone until they know they are marriage material, which includes physical compatibility.  I was saying I'd rather my kids date before doing anything, including kissing, that would establish physical compatibility.  

But I think I misunderstood Sneezy?  To be honest, I'm still confused.  

[vonfirmath]

BandH the way it works here is:
Once you are of the age to start thinking about marriage (yes, my daughter got asked to date by a boy in 4th grade. She said No and had to continue to say No because he didn't seem to know how to take that answer. Before that point, they were occasional friends that played on the playground but she ended up having to avoid him entirely until he moved away from the school due to the repeated questions.), then sure go out one on one with a boy. Get to know them better. But, if at any point something comes up that makes you realize he is NOT marriage material -- different faiths is a big one -- then extricate yourself from the relationship quickly. Don't continue to date because it is fun or you enjoy the attention, etc. It is not fair to you or your boyfriend to continue to grow the emotional ties once you know marriage is not an option for the two of you.

 

PS I went to my senior high school prom with a boy and it was NOT a date. I asked him as a friend because I wanted to be able to said I did it. And we had fun spending time together - with no expectations of anything else since we both knew it was not a date.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by vonfirmath

[maize]

I also never saw any point in dating (in the sense of establishing a continued close relationship--a single casual date for fun was different) someone I wouldn't consider marrying, and of those I did date, once I figured out I wasn't interested in marrying them I broke things off. 

I had zero interest in investing time and energy in a relationship that I knew would not be long-term. Sometimes it took awhile of trying out a relationship to figure that out--that to me was the point of dating. Figuring out who I wanted as a permanent partner.

[Sneezyone]

18 hours ago, BandH said:

I was saying the opposite.  @Sneezyone seemed to be saying she tells her kids not to date anyone until they know they are marriage material, which includes physical compatibility.  I was saying I'd rather my kids date before doing anything, including kissing, that would establish physical compatibility.  

But I think I misunderstood Sneezy?  To be honest, I'm still confused.  

No. Not what I was saying. We encourage dating. Dating may or may not include kissing or more but it should always be, in our view, with an eye toward WHY AM I DATING YOU AND WHERE IS THIS GOING? If the kids can answer those questions for themselves, great, have fun! These aren’t questions we ask of them but ones we want them to ask of themselves. If the answer is I don't know (b/c you suck) and/or nowhere (because you suck and we're not compatible) then you quit when you're ahead and the consequences are few and far between. That's our approach.

We don't invoke God in this discussion. As the long-term product of a 'forbidden' romance we've had to think long and hard about our bottom lines. Where we landed is…we don't want to be forced to spend time with/cozy up to significant others until they are in the running for wife/husband status. They're not our friends, dinner guests, vacation companions, etc. We want our kids to tell us when they want us to invest. When it's real, REAL...they must let us know so we can go all out! Until then..."Hi. Nice to meet you."

It always surprises me when families are super invested in who their teens date for this reason. I’m not privy to every passing fancy, nor do I want to be.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Sneezyone

[TechWife]

19 hours ago, katilac said:

Wow, I can't imagine talking to a 16-yr-old my kid was dating about potential marriage and children! 

 

9 hours ago, mom2scouts said:

Two of my kids are married. Both of them married the person they were dating at 16. There absolutely is the potential for marriage and children at that age.

 

7 hours ago, denarii said:

I married the person I dated when I was 15. We split for almost a decade before getting back together after uni😅.

 

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

We do. Not as a hey, this means marriage 2-4 years down the line but as a hey, is this really someone you want to swap spit/share DNA with? IJS. Think long and haaard about this connection. It seems to do the trick without invoking hellfire and brimstone.

Sixteen is not too young. One of my great nieces was pregnant at 15, one at 16, one at 17. None of them are married and the fathers of two of them aren’t in the picture anymore. The father of the third child is raising him because great niece lost custody, possibly permanently.

Edited February 16, 2023 by TechWife

[Soror]

I can't speak for @katilacbut my objection to the 16 year and the discussion on marriage was the fact that the parents brought it up, not the kid. I'd tell my own kid to run for the hills if their boyfriend/ girlfriends parents did that. One I really, really don't care for the courtship model with parents picking/vetting spouses and two if the kid has that on their mind at all they better be mature enough to bring it up themselves. 

 

@Blsdmama kudos to your daughter for having the convo and making the hard decision.  

[Clarita]

6 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

I think the harder part of that courtship mentality is that it's like the family is dating the kid? There's just *so* much input and pressure.

I was raised the polar opposite. It was expected I'd do my entire young adult life *for fun* with zero intentionality and that was messy too. I adore DH and I'm grateful we ended up together, but I was that nightmare of a teen with no regard to the future. My high school boyfriend is still in prison for intent to deliver... So I appreciate the "date with intentionality" mindset.

As a girl whom mother's deemed marriage material for their sons as a teen. I do not condone date with intentionality courtship stuff AT ALL. It was off-putting in my teens, it absolutely disgusts me as a mother of a daughter. I don't think I would have survived that onslaught if my mother was also in the courtship camp. Honestly wouldn't surprise me if I would have never graduated college or had a career and achieved the things that I did in my twenties and thirties.

[rebcoola]

We don't really push date to marry but we do point just how many people we know who have married their high school sweetheart and that it's good to think about whether they really are a good fit or just fun.  

My ODD has a boyfriend and they seem to be a great match and he is just so sweet.  He is going to a different school next year so we will see.

[ScoutTN]

16 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

There are few things more important in life. I started when my dd was 3 with "No Mr Wickhams!" 😂

I love this! Definitely NO Mr. Wickhams!!!

[ktgrok]

I want to add to my "she's 16 and has tons of time to find the right guy" post that I'm not dismissing the idea you could find the right guy young. On the one hand, had I continued dating my boyfriend I had when I was 16 we could have married and it would likely have been a very nice life. I still know him now and see zero signs it wouldn't have worked out, other than at 16 we KNEW we were getting too serious, and he kind of got weirded out by that (we were on the verge of an intimacy level we both knew wasn't a good idea yet), and we broke up. But I've got zero doubts that had we been both single a few years later we would have gotten back together.

On the other hand, I DID marry the next guy I dated, started when I was 17. That was a disaster. 

[Faith-manor]

14 hours ago, Clarita said:

As a girl whom mother's deemed marriage material for their sons as a teen. I do not condone date with intentionality courtship stuff AT ALL. It was off-putting in my teens, it absolutely disgusts me as a mother of a daughter. I don't think I would have survived that onslaught if my mother was also in the courtship camp. Honestly wouldn't surprise me if I would have never graduated college or had a career and achieved the things that I did in my twenties and thirties.

This. It is very creepy to me, and when our dd was 16-18 years of age, many parents of teen and young twenty something sons were quite in our face about her being such good marriage material. It was so revolting. She was not a piece of meat to us, a piece of property to be acquired by a male raised to think he can't be single and be whole. Ugh. I was so glad when she went to college, and we eventually left that group and never looked back. I am still creeped out by the obsession with marriage being the fundamental consideration for young people's social lives. 

I am 100% team "No Mr. Wickhams!" Rosie always nails it!

[Drama Llama]

22 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

No. Not what I was saying. We encourage dating. Dating may or may not include kissing or more but it should always be, in our view, with an eye toward WHY AM I DATING YOU AND WHERE IS THIS GOING? If the kids can answer those questions for themselves, great, have fun! These aren’t questions we ask of them but ones we want them to ask of themselves. If the answer is I don't know (b/c you suck) and/or nowhere (because you suck and we're not compatible) then you quit when you're ahead and the consequences are few and far between. That's our approach.

If the answer includes "because you suck" then yes, split up.  I agree 100%.  But there are lots of reasons why a couple of 16 year olds might not expect to get married that have nothing to do with anyone sucking.  To me, enjoying a relationship while it's happening can be enough of a reason to date, even if you expect that you'll go different directions for college.  And kids change a lot in those years.   A couple can feel like something is really important at 16, and then find it doesn't matter at all at 25.  Or they can feel that something isn't important at 16, and then later find out it's a big deal. 

22 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

We don't invoke God in this discussion. As the long-term product of a 'forbidden' romance we've had to think long and hard about our bottom lines. Where we landed is…we don't want to be forced to spend time with/cozy up to significant others until they are in the running for wife/husband status. They're not our friends, dinner guests, vacation companions, etc. We want our kids to tell us when they want us to invest. When it's real, REAL...they must let us know so we can go all out! Until then..."Hi. Nice to meet you."

It always surprises me when families are super invested in who their teens date for this reason. I’m not privy to every passing fancy, nor do I want to be.

I love it when my kids bring friends home, and hang out, and stay for dinner.  I don't care whether the friends are people they are dating, or just kids they are hanging out with.  I like to know the people my kid is connected to.  

Now, bringing someone to visit from out of town, or bringing them to a major family event or vacation, that does feel like a big deal and something to take slowly.  But saying "hey do you want to stay for supper, I'm making tacos" to the teenager playing video games on my couch seems natural to me. 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, BandH said:

If the answer includes "because you suck" then yes, split up.  I agree 100%.  But there are lots of reasons why a couple of 16 year olds might not expect to get married that have nothing to do with anyone sucking.  To me, enjoying a relationship while it's happening can be enough of a reason to date, even if you expect that you'll go different directions for college.  And kids change a lot in those years.   A couple can feel like something is really important at 16, and then find it doesn't matter at all at 25.  Or they can feel that something isn't important at 16, and then later find out it's a big deal. 

I love it when my kids bring friends home, and hang out, and stay for dinner.  I don't care whether the friends are people they are dating, or just kids they are hanging out with.  I like to know the people my kid is connected to.  

Now, bringing someone to visit from out of town, or bringing them to a major family event or vacation, that does feel like a big deal and something to take slowly.  But saying "hey do you want to stay for supper, I'm making tacos" to the teenager playing video games on my couch seems natural to me. 

Probably just a difference of perspective. For one, we’re a family of intense people with strong personalities (not just immediate family but extended too). A lot of the people DD has dated can barely handle an introductory conversation without wanting to collapse in a puddle of miserable tears (and that’s with me being on my best, most cordial behavior!!). I’m happy to say hi to ‘friends’  and dates but her besties look forward to our FaceTime chats! They’re adorbs. I want that in a SIL/DIL too. DH and I are holding out to ‘invest’ in a BF/GF that ‘fit’ and most of these lily livered young souls do not. 🤣
 

DD has been invited into lots of homes and been given ‘carte-blanche’ in inappropriate ways because the other parents like her. So do we!! Still, not a fan of that approach, and because we like/love her, we don’t want to co-sign every relationship. They’re not created equal.
 

We discuss her preferences and goals/expectations with her as well as our own. We trust that by college-age she’ll offer up some fantastic folks for lifelong-partner consideration. That’s the extent of our involvement right now. I do look forward to a DIL/SIL that will give as good as they get in the ‘sooooooo when do I get to demo my GRAND skills discussion’ tho.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Sneezyone