Teens and Dating and Religion -Oh my.

[KungFuPanda]

My daughter and her Dh dated as teens and broke up over religion. He’s from a super fundy family, which I found annoying since I moved far from home so my kids wouldn’t be raised with that mindset. Eventually she de-fundied him. They got married in their mid twenties after college. 

[TechWife]

On 2/16/2023 at 7:26 PM, Soror said:

I can't speak for @katilacbut my objection to the 16 year and the discussion on marriage was the fact that the parents brought it up, not the kid. I'd tell my own kid to run for the hills if their boyfriend/ girlfriends parents did that. One I really, really don't care for the courtship model with parents picking/vetting spouses and two if the kid has that on their mind at all they better be mature enough to bring it up themselves. 

 

@Blsdmama kudos to your daughter for having the convo and making the hard decision.  

Based on extended family experiences and the fact that marriage and parenthood affect both parties, I don’t think it matters who brings it up, as long as someone does! 

[thatfirstsip]

I don't think dating, much less dating as a teenager, is for the primary or sometimes even secondary purpose of finding someone to marry. That's just a wild idea to me. It must be a cultural or religious disconnect.

[Sneezyone]

43 minutes ago, thatfirstsip said:

I don't think dating, much less dating as a teenager, is for the primary or sometimes even secondary purpose of finding someone to marry. That's just a wild idea to me. It must be a cultural or religious disconnect.

Nah, for us it’s more an issue of wasted time-lack of value. Relationships short of marriage can/should be really valuable in clarifying your needs and wants, goals and purpose. We don’t have any purity issues wrapped up in that just selectivity and discernment.
 

Relationships that don’t move the needle in those areas are, to DH and I, a waste of time. Ultimately, because DH and I enjoy each other so much, we hope our kids will find their person too. Dating (with purpose) is how you get there.

DD has gotten REALLY good of late at identifying controlling, insecure, politically disinterested folks as hard no’s…for herself. That’s the goal…to know what you like well enough that you don’t waste years on folks who won’t ever be who you need long term. Speedy break ups (with clear, articulable reasons) are, to my mind, celebratory events.

DH and I married at 18/22 tho so we don’t buy into the idea that young people feelings aren’t valid. We just want them to enter into relationships with eyes wide open and clear expectations. We’re, I guess, deeply conservative in this respect. No scrubs allowed.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Lawyer&Mom]

I’m still friends at 43 with the boy I dated at 15.  We would never have made a good long term match, and I mostly knew that then, but he is a lovely person and I hate to think that my relationship with him was a waste of time.  Some people help us learn and grow, even if we aren’t meant to be together.

He’s the only person I ever dated that didn’t go to college.  He’s the only friend I have who isn’t a professional.  (He’s a bike mechanic.)  He is brilliant in ways I’m not, ways that don’t show up on standardized tests, and knowing him has given me a lot of perspective over the years.  I guess we could have been “just friends” since he wasn’t husband material for me, but honestly I’m glad I actually dated him. 
 

I’d like my daughters to date some guys that are different from the types of guys they will eventually marry.  High school may be the time they have that opportunity.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Lawyer&Mom

[LucyStoner]

My older son broke up with his first girlfriend right after Christmas for a few reasons, but religious differences was high on the list.  She was very interested in him and was acting like it was a permanent thing that would lead to marriage.  When he realized he couldn’t see marrying her, he felt it would be mean to not break it off.  

My son is 19.  I started dating his dad (my husband of 21 years) when I was 19 so while I don’t think dating *has* to lead to marriage, I do know that many people do marry people they date when they are teens. I agree with Sneezyone that it’s best to not invest years of one’s life into a relationship with a person whom you won’t marry (provided your goal is getting married in the medium to longer term).  My son has expressed that he would like to be married by the time he’s 25ish.  

Edited February 18, 2023 by LucyStoner

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, LucyStoner said:

My older son broke up with his first girlfriend right after Christmas for a few reasons, but religious differences was high on the list.  She was very interested in him and was acting like it was a permanent thing that would lead to marriage.  When he realized he couldn’t see marrying her, he felt it would be mean to not break it off.  

My son is 19.  I started dating his dad (my husband of 21 years) when I was 19 so while I don’t think dating *has* to lead to marriage, I do know that many people do marry people they date when they are teens. I agree with Sneezyone that it’s best to not invest years of one’s life into a relationship with a person whom you won’t marry (provided your goal is getting married in the medium to longer term).  

This. It’s not good to string people along. The folks they’re dating have goals and dreams too.

My one and only regret is my first BF (of almost 4yrs) who thought we’d marry (I never did). He was devastated when I broke it off. I watched my oldest do the same thing to another kid even after I warned her. Sigh. I was very intentional after that and so too has DD been.
 

Some lessons are hard-won.

[thatfirstsip]

Oh, I see! I guess I just don't think of dating that way necessarily - certainly it *can* be to find a long-term or lifelong partner, but I don't feel like that's the main purpose or certainly the only purpose at all stages of life. Sometimes, it's like making friends - you're not necessarily hanging out only with people who you know will be your friends for life, or who you could see being best friends with forever. Sometimes you're just having fun making relationships, meeting different kinds of people, seeing what works for you and what doesn't.

 

But again, if it works for you, I have no quibbles. It's just such a foreign concept to me, so it surprises me that so many people see it that way.

[LucyStoner]

17 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

This. It’s not good to string people along. The folks they’re dating have goals and dreams too.

My one and only regret is my first BF (of almost 4yrs) who thought we’d marry (I never did). He was devastated when I broke it off. I watched my oldest do the same thing to another kid even after I warned her. Sigh. I was very intentional after that and so too has DD been.
 

Some lessons are hard-won.

Yep.  I dropped my high school sweetheart when I started dating my now husband and I do think it hurt him more because we’d been together for nearly 4 years.  I was very much part of their family and his parents were a bit sad about it as well.  My husband was “the one” in a way that my hs sweetheart never was though.  It was very much a that’s that situation with my husband.  We technically dated for 2 years before we married but we both knew it was for keeps just a few weeks in.  His mom asked him if I was “the one” and he was like “yep!”

I thought my son’s decision to break up was a wise one.  She’s not hoping for something he knows isn’t going to happen and he’s not closing himself off to possibly meeting “the one” by extending an attachment that he’s decided isn’t going to be permanent.  His reasons weren’t only religious differences - they have very different values and interests and some of the things that he enjoys talking about the most are things that bore her to tears.  

I stayed entirely out of it- I won’t be that mom who is all up my sons’ dating lives.  Other than providing some basic advice (don’t get the carnation corsage! i think her favorite color is purple) I stay the heck out of it.  He’s texting a girl he met at a dance on a college tour last weekend and I know nothing other than her name. 😉

Edited February 18, 2023 by LucyStoner

[Sneezyone]

21 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

Yep.  I dropped my high school sweetheart when I started dating my now husband and I do think it hurt him more because we’d been together for nearly 4 years.  My husband was “the one” though in a way that my hs sweetheart never was though.  I was very much part of their family and his parents were pretty sad about it as well.  

I thought my son’s decision to break up was a wise one.  She’s not hoping for something he knows isn’t going to happen and he’s not closing himself off to possibly meeting “the one” by extending an attachment that he’s decided isn’t going to be permanent.  His reasons weren’t only religious differences - they have very different values and interests and some of the things that he enjoys talking about the most are things that bore her to tears.  

I stayed entirely out of it- I won’t be that mom who is all up my sons’ dating lives.  Other than providing some basic advice (don’t get the carnation corsage! i think her favorite color is purple) I stay the heck out of it.  He’s texting a girl he met at a dance on a college tour last weekend and I know nothing other than her name. 😉

Exactly this. I was never flighty and knew DH was the guy. I hung out with folks plenty but didn’t ‘date’ a ton. DD has since adopted a similar approach. We’re not ‘date for funsies’ people and that’s ok. If we like you and bring you in…you’re in!! Too bad, so sad for you. 😂 Unless/until we get the ‘I like THIS ONE!!’ vibe from the kids, DH and I are not very interested.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Sneezyone

[LucyStoner]

18 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Exactly this. I was never flighty and knew DH was the guy. I hung out with folks plenty but didn’t ‘date’ a ton. DD has since adopted a similar approach. We’re not ‘date for funsies’ people and that’s ok. If we like you and bring you in…you’re in!! Too bad, so sad for you. 😂

I think that a lot of people subscribe to the idea that marriage is just a piece of paper or that marriage is something that might just happen but it’s not necessarily a main goal.  

In my family, we know that marriage has real value past the piece of paper (even leaving religious beliefs out of it, marriage has significant social, financial and family benefits) and if it’s something you want, you should be intentional about finding it at the time of life it is easiest to meet people.   

Edited February 18, 2023 by LucyStoner

[Soror]

9 hours ago, TechWife said:

Based on extended family experiences and the fact that marriage and parenthood affect both parties, I don’t think it matters who brings it up, as long as someone does! 

I agree that either the man or woman can bring it up but I think it is a very inappropriate topic for the parents to bring up before the dating couple has even discussed it. I'd tell mine to stay far away from anyone whose parents are that controlling of their love life. Personally, I'd also just say in general stay far away from people that do the courtship model but I'd guess my kids aren't the ideal marriage material for them and that will work itself out 🙂

I am also of the opinion that sometimes it takes dating the wrong guy to find the right guy. Sometimes what you think you want in a spouse isn't what you actually want. Some people never figure out and keep going for the wrong person and end up with multiple divorces. I hope they will date people that are kind and respectful to them and generally good people. We will be as nice and welcoming as we can be. I try not to have expectations of my kid's lives- especially once they hit teenage years. We've done our best to teach them and will guide them as long as they are open to it but they will make their own choices. My son has a gf that he's been with nearly a year now. She mentioned to us they've talked about buying a property and building a house. Seems they are thinking long term but then again he's going to college 1.5 hours away when he could stay local close to her. She's a very sweet girl and I'd be happy to have her in the family but if it is meant to work out it will, if not it won't. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Soror

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, Soror said:

I agree that either the man or woman can bring it up but I think it is a very inappropriate topic for the parents to bring up before the dating couple has even discussed it. I'd tell mine to stay far away from anyone whose parents are that controlling of their love life. …
🙂

 

IME, thats how babies are made. A lot of people don’t discuss it, they just do it. 
Agree to disagree here 🙂.

[Soror]

2 minutes ago, TechWife said:

IME, thats how babies are made. A lot of people don’t discuss it, they just do it. 
Agree to disagree here 🙂.

I'm so confused 🤔

I'm not saying don't discuss such things. I'm saying I discuss things with my own kids, not their boyfriends and girlfriends. And I thought we were discussing talks of marriage, not sex. I'm saying if my kids boyfriends/girlfriends parents start talking to them about marrying their kid before they've even discussed it themselves it is a boundary issue. I'm not deciding who is or isn't marriage material for my kid. I will have opinions but won't be picking their spouse. 

 

[maize]

11 minutes ago, Soror said:

I'm so confused 🤔

I'm not saying don't discuss such things. I'm saying I discuss things with my own kids, not their boyfriends and girlfriends. And I thought we were discussing talks of marriage, not sex. I'm saying if my kids boyfriends/girlfriends parents start talking to them about marrying their kid before they've even discussed it themselves it is a boundary issue. 

 

This wasn't at all clear from your previous post. I also read it as parents shouldn't discuss marriage with their own kid if the kid didn't bring it up first.

[Soror]

4 minutes ago, maize said:

This wasn't at all clear from your previous post. I also read it as parents shouldn't discuss marriage with their own kid if the kid didn't bring it up first.

Aha well could be. I've had a lot going on so maybe I was talking Smurf....

[teachermom2834]

@SororI totally got what you were saying and agree with you. Probably because I had some very overbearing parents sit my 15 yo ds down and tell him given his current behavior he wasn’t the sort of man they wanted their dd to marry. 
 

Had they never met a 15 yo boy before? 
 

I’ve seen so many parents do that sort of thing with taking it on themselves to get involved with these teen relationships and I hate it. And it isn’t about birth control. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by teachermom2834

[TechWife]

On 2/15/2023 at 10:02 PM, katilac said:

Wow, I can't imagine talking to a 16-yr-old my kid was dating about potential marriage and children! 

First post that prompted my replies. 

40 minutes ago, Soror said:

I'm so confused 🤔

I'm not saying don't discuss such things. I'm saying I discuss things with my own kids, not their boyfriends and girlfriends. And I thought we were discussing talks of marriage, not sex. I'm saying if my kids boyfriends/girlfriends parents start talking to them about marrying their kid before they've even discussed it themselves it is a boundary issue. I'm not deciding who is or isn't marriage material for my kid. I will have opinions but won't be picking their spouse. 

 

We’re talking about both, generally. I’m talking about the kid piece, specifically and how the two relate. I have a niece who thought she had found “the one” more than once. Three children by two different fathers. The first baby was conceived, the relationship ended. The second baby was conceived in the heat of the moment with the same dad during a brief visit. The third baby came a couple of years later by another man who was “the one.”  A third man who was “the one” was on the run from another state, unbeknownst to her. He was arrested in the middle of the night after they had all lived together for about six months. He then went on trial and was convicted - a pedophile. Yes, he had abused my great nieces in the meantime. Of the children, great-niece #1 had a baby at sixteen, with “the one.” Dropped out of high school. Four years later, another “one” introduced her to drugs. Thankfully, the child’s father is now super stable and rightly has sole custody and will hopefully retain that. Great-niece #2 was college bound until she met “the one” at fifteen & then dropped out of high school. They stayed together almost a year after their baby was born. After a cross country move made together, there are family rumors that she and the baby will be back home soon. Great-niece #3 has made it to 16 and so far hasn’t met “the one.” She is still in school, though struggling for all the reasons.

Given that both parties, and therefore families, are impacted and could be for generations to follow, I don’t have a problem with any concerned parent stepping up for a talk when they see their child becoming attached to someone & they have concerns about long term compatibility. Why? Because that’s what love for your own child does. 
 

ETA - I think if parents are going to do this, that they talk to the couple together, not separately. That’s much more appropriate  & more respectful than pulling the dating partner away separately. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by TechWife

[Meriwether]

Four of the six marriages in my family and Dh's are couples who "dated" before high school. They didn't date at that age, of course, but called each other boyfriend/girlfriend. They all dated through high school. Three of the kids broke up for varying lengths of time in high school or college, but still ended up together. The idea that young relationships can lead to marriage is obvious to me.

[Soror]

11 minutes ago, TechWife said:

First post that prompted my replies. 

We’re talking about both, generally. I’m talking about the kid piece, specifically and how the two relate. I have a niece who thought she had found “the one” more than once. Three children by two different fathers. The first baby was conceived, the relationship ended. The second baby was conceived in the heat of the moment with the same dad during a brief visit. The third baby came a couple of years later by another man who was “the one.”  A third man who was “the one” was on the run from another state, unbeknownst to her. He was arrested in the middle of the night after they had all lived together for about six months. He then went on trial and was convicted - a pedophile. Yes, he had abused my great nieces in the meantime. Of the children, great-niece #1 had a baby at sixteen, with “the one.” Dropped out of high school. Four years later, another “one” introduced her to drugs. Thankfully, the child’s father is now super stable and rightly has sole custody and will hopefully retain that. Great-niece #2 was college bound until she met “the one” at fifteen & then dropped out of high school. They stayed together almost a year after their baby was born. After a cross country move made together, there are family rumors that she and the baby will be back home soon. Great-niece #3 has made it to 16 and so far hasn’t met “the one.” She is still in school, though struggling for all the reasons.

Given that both parties, and therefore families, are impacted and could be for generations to follow, I don’t have a problem with any concerned parent stepping up for a talk when they see their child becoming attached to someone & they have concerns about long term compatibility. Why? Because that’s what love for your own child does. 
 

ETA - I think if parents are going to do this, that they talk to the couple together, not separately. That’s much more appropriate  & more respectful than pulling the dating partner away separately. 

Aha as with every discussion we all bring our own background to the situation. I'm sorry your niece got involved with so many jerks 😞

If I had a kid in that situation I'd be doing everything I could to keep them from a scumbag. 

But I was thinking more along the lines of the poster that said she was sat down by her boyfriend's parents because she wasn't the right kind of person.  More like the Duggar family and similar and their picking out of spouses. I'm not going to step in to stop my kid from being with someone just cause I don't like them or don't agree with them. It would have to be a bigger issue than that. I might try to gently sway them away depending on the kid and if I thought that would be helpful and was really needed.

If some pedo was dating my kid nope. If my teen daughter was being pursued by a much older man nope. If it was a kid that was bad news in trouble with the law nope.

[TechWife]

18 minutes ago, Soror said:

…

But I was thinking more along the lines of the poster that said she was sat down by her boyfriend's parents because she wasn't the right kind of person.  More like the Duggar family and similar and their picking out of spouses. I'm not going to step in to stop my kid from being with someone just cause I don't like them or don't agree with them. It would have to be a bigger issue than that. I might try to gently sway them away depending on the kid and if I thought that would be helpful and was really needed.

…

I totally agree, the Duggar/courtship thing is gross. Minor differences are just that, minor. 

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

IME, thats how babies are made. A lot of people don’t discuss it, they just do it. 
Agree to disagree here 🙂.

They don’t discuss sex or they don’t discuss marriage?

Despite the fact that I don’t bring up marriage to my 15 year old, he certainly brings it up, and seems confident that he is going to be with his girlfriend forever.  And while I have no idea if that will happen I see no red flags that jt won’t.  They are a good match as 15 year olds go.

Her becoming pregnant at this age would still be very bad.  I don’t see their conversations about marriage preventing anything.  We do have conversations about prevention, albeit each set of parents with our own kid.

[TechWife]

Just now, BandH said:

They don’t discuss sex or they don’t discuss marriage?

Despite the fact that I don’t bring up marriage to my 15 year old, he certainly brings it up, and seems confident that he is going to be with his girlfriend forever.  And while I have no idea if that will happen I see no red flags that jt won’t.  They are a good match as 15 year olds go.

Her becoming pregnant at this age would still be very bad.  I don’t see their conversations about marriage preventing anything.  We do have conversations about prevention, albeit each set of parents with our own kid.

Both! 

[Drama Llama]

4 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Both! 

How do you see the marriage conversations preventing conceptions?  

[marbel]

30 minutes ago, Soror said:

But I was thinking more along the lines of the poster that said she was sat down by her boyfriend's parents because she wasn't the right kind of person.  More like the Duggar family and similar and their picking out of spouses. I'm not going to step in to stop my kid from being with someone just cause I don't like them or don't agree with them. It would have to be a bigger issue than that. I might try to gently sway them away depending on the kid and if I thought that would be helpful and was really needed.

So I'm not disagreeing with you - I think it's an odd thing to do too. So I do not agree with sitting down my kid's bf/gf like that.

BUT... in a family where certain views are very important - such as religion - and there is an obvious mismatch in religious beliefs - well, I can see that the parents might do that. Again, I don't agree with it, but I can kinda understand the impulse to do it.

I had a friend in high school who belonged to a very small Christian denomination. It was very important in her family that she marry within that group. There was like one guy in the right age range at the time, so she married him. Did she love him? Did he love her? Who knows? We lost touch after she married (at 18), not because of an argument, but we just faded away as we had nothing in common anymore. So I have no idea what happened to her. But, I can imagine that her parents - who were very kind people, in my experience - might have sat down with a boy of another religion/denomination to discuss the issue. 

It's more than a matter of not liking or not agreeing with them. It's a fundamental difference that would affect the couple's life if they were to marry. I think the person that brought that up was talking about dating a Mormon boy. I don't know much about Mormonism but I do know it has very different practices and beliefs than, say, a Presbyterian. 

This doesn't just happen with dating couples. When my kid was about 10 he became friendly with another boy in swimming class. Mine invited the boy over to play once, but the boy said he would not be allowed to do that because of their religious difference. I thought, wow, can't even form a friendship? It was hard to explain to a 10 year old that he was unacceptable as a friend because of the church he went to.  

[TechWife]

2 hours ago, BandH said:

How do you see the marriage conversations preventing conceptions?  

It’s one, integrated conversation. The purpose of the conversation is about relationships, not preventing conception. The physical aspect is only part of a relationship, but it is one that, should children be born, has long term ramifications that can extend beyond the life of the relationship, which also involve the lives of many others (the children, the grandchildren, the extended family, for example). While bringing it up doesn’t prevent contraception, it does lay out the seriousness of having children and hopefully prompts people to think about the long term relational issues that will arise in families when parents aren’t spiritually compatible. The issues will arise whether or not the parents have never been married, marry & remain so, or marry then divorce, because none of those scenarios remove spiritual life from the parent to parent, parent to child, parent to extended family or child to sibling relationships.

Edited February 18, 2023 by TechWife

[MercyA]

My husband and I started dating at 16 and have been married over 25 years. 

My brother and his wife started dating their junior and senior years of high school and have been married almost 30 years. 

My parents married when they were 17 and 18. They adore each other and are coming up on their 50th anniversary.

I am biased, obviously, but I don't think 16 is too young to be thinking about a marriage partner. 🙂 I'll be thrilled if DD finds her match early and avoids loneliness and heartache.  

Edited March 11, 2023 by MercyA

[katilac]

21 minutes ago, MercyA said:

 I am biased, obviously, but I don't think 16 is too young to be thinking about a marriage partner. 🙂 I'll be thrilled if DD finds her match early and avoids loneliness and heartache.  

Marrying young, or committing to a future marriage partner at a young age, doesn't automatically prevent loneliness and heartache. 

More to the initial point, though: it's one thing if a parent is okay with their own child marrying young and talks to their own child about marriage and the potential issues with dating outside of their faith. It's another thing entirely to sit down with the 16-yr-old their kid is dating to discuss marriage and raising children. That crosses enough borders to stamp an entire passport. 

[katilac]

On 2/18/2023 at 8:46 AM, marbel said:

So I'm not disagreeing with you - I think it's an odd thing to do too. So I do not agree with sitting down my kid's bf/gf like that.

BUT... in a family where certain views are very important - such as religion - and there is an obvious mismatch in religious beliefs - well, I can see that the parents might do that. Again, I don't agree with it, but I can kinda understand the impulse to do it.

 

I think it's just as likely to have the opposite effect. Nothing fuels teen love like being told you shouldn't be together, lol

[katilac]

On 2/16/2023 at 7:42 AM, mom2scouts said:

Two of my kids are married. Both of them married the person they were dating at 16. There absolutely is the potential for marriage and children at that age.

And parents can feel free to talk about it with their own children. 

On 2/16/2023 at 4:41 PM, TechWife said:

Sixteen is not too young. One of my great nieces was pregnant at 15, one at 16, one at 17. None of them are married and the fathers of two of them aren’t in the picture anymore. The father of the third child is raising him because great niece lost custody, possibly permanently.

Not too young to discuss all the things with your own children, agreed. 

On 2/17/2023 at 2:53 PM, BandH said:

To me, enjoying a relationship while it's happening can be enough of a reason to date 

I love it when my kids bring friends home, and hang out, and stay for dinner.  I don't care whether the friends are people they are dating, or just kids they are hanging out with.  I like to know the people my kid is connected to.  

Now, bringing someone to visit from out of town, or bringing them to a major family event or vacation, that does feel like a big deal and something to take slowly.  But saying "hey do you want to stay for supper, I'm making tacos" to the teenager playing video games on my couch seems natural to me. 

Yes and yes.

Relationships have their own value, above and beyond how long they last. 

We were never like, Would the young lady or gentleman care to come for dinner next week? but treating romantic interests the same as friends means we know them, and they are always invited to eat when food was available. 

We did see various friends who would invite the other parents over for dinner, and I was like, absolutely not, lol. It was extra funny to me bc we all at least knew each other anyway (homeschool group, all the kids were fishing in a shallow pond), why start spending more time together bc the kids are dating? We're not dating, I don't want to socialize with you any more than I did before. 

On 2/17/2023 at 9:20 PM, Lawyer&Mom said:

I’m still friends at 43 with the boy I dated at 15.  We would never have made a good long term match, and I mostly knew that then, but he is a lovely person and I hate to think that my relationship with him was a waste of time.  Some people help us learn and grow, even if we aren’t meant to be together.

Yep. 

On 2/17/2023 at 9:59 PM, thatfirstsip said:

Sometimes, it's like making friends - you're not necessarily hanging out only with people who you know will be your friends for life, or who you could see being best friends with forever. Sometimes you're just having fun making relationships, meeting different kinds of people, seeing what works for you and what doesn't.

Yep. 

People can be a meaningful part of your journey even if you don't travel together for long. 

On 2/16/2023 at 3:03 PM, Rosie_0801 said:

There are few things more important in life. I started when my dd was 3 with "No Mr Wickhams!" 😂

I feel you are disregarding the fact that his regimentals make him completely charming. 

[Jaybee]

We discouraged dating during high school except for special events. We didn't forbid it, though. Before any of ours had a special relationship, we talked about all kinds of things about dating, relationships, marriage, etc. We did discourage dating anyone they knew from the beginning (for whatever reason) that they wouldn't marry. Others, you don't know until you date them. I have always told my kids that time has a way of showing you things in another person that nothing else will. We also encouraged friend groups/activities as a way to get to know people in a less pressurized way. Personally, I learned a whole lot about what I did and didn't want in a marriage partner through my friend groups, especially in college. I never really dated anyone before my dh--not because I didn't want to, but because I wasn't asked (by anyone I was interested in). I was always a more serious person, though, and it is possible that my male peers saw that and they were not looking for a serious relationship. I did have a lot of male friends through high school and college.

We did sit down with one of ours and the dating partner because there were some glaring issues--not with the person, but with the relationship due to religious differences and discrepancies in what they wanted in life. They kept saying, "We are not that serious (etc., etc.)" All indications to others, though, were that they were. We knew we were taking a serious risk to our relationship with them by confronting, if they decided to stay together. However, we never wanted one of ours to come to us after marriage asking, "Why didn't you say something?" In fact, what happened in this case was that after they broke up a couple of months later, our child went to friends who then said things like, yes, I saw *these* problems. And at that point, our child was asking the friends, "Well, why didn't you say something?" The friends had been all gungho and saying how cute they looked together, how much they liked this person, etc., until they broke up. At that point, we decided that marriage is too serious of an issue for us not to be honest with our kids. This is the only situation where we ever talked in that way to both parties. We have some awesome kids-in-law. (And that kid ended up marrying one of the best ever!)

[Melissa Louise]

This is fascinating to me.

I don't think y'all talking about marriage (to your own kids) are wrong, at all.

It's just really, really different to the way I grew up, my cultural norms (Gen X, urban, 90's, secular).

~

I literally can't imagine my parents sitting down to talk about marriage to me, and me listening. I would have found it an egregious interference.

And I sure as heck feel no authority to sit my kids down and talk to them about it, not that they would find that comfortable or desirable in any way.

I wonder if it's less necessary because there isn't really a culture of early marriage (in my boho neck of the woods)? It's vanishingly unlikely that anyone my kid(s) dated as teens were going to be long term fixtures.

I also don't have a cultural sense that a future spouse is entering my family, and I can 'vet' them.

~

I can definitely see benefits to the other way of doing things, so I'm not criticizing, just observing how different it is.

 

 

 

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Jaybee said:

We discouraged dating during high school except for special events. We didn't forbid it, though. Before any of ours had a special relationship, we talked about all kinds of things about dating, relationships, marriage, etc. We did discourage dating anyone they knew from the beginning (for whatever reason) that they wouldn't marry. Others, you don't know until you date them. I have always told my kids that time has a way of showing you things in another person that nothing else will. We also encouraged friend groups/activities as a way to get to know people in a less pressurized way. Personally, I learned a whole lot about what I did and didn't want in a marriage partner through my friend groups, especially in college. I never really dated anyone before my dh--not because I didn't want to, but because I wasn't asked (by anyone I was interested in). I was always a more serious person, though, and it is possible that my male peers saw that and they were not looking for a serious relationship. I did have a lot of male friends through high school and college.

We did sit down with one of ours and the dating partner because there were some glaring issues--not with the person, but with the relationship due to religious differences and discrepancies in what they wanted in life. They kept saying, "We are not that serious (etc., etc.)" All indications to others, though, were that they were. We knew we were taking a serious risk to our relationship with them by confronting, if they decided to stay together. However, we never wanted one of ours to come to us after marriage asking, "Why didn't you say something?" In fact, what happened in this case was that after they broke up a couple of months later, our child went to friends who then said things like, yes, I saw *these* problems. And at that point, our child was asking the friends, "Well, why didn't you say something?" The friends had been all gungho and saying how cute they looked together, how much they liked this person, etc., until they broke up. At that point, we decided that marriage is too serious of an issue for us not to be honest with our kids. This is the only situation where we ever talked in that way to both parties. We have some awesome kids-in-law. (And that kid ended up marrying one of the best ever!)

Yes. To all of this.  

[Melissa Louise]

Oh, and one of the things I hate most about my kids being adult is having to meet the parents of their current people - it is truly the most awkward thing - I feel like I am not dating the parents, so why must I spend time with them? My dd2 really pushed me to meet up with the mother of her then-partner, and it was fine, but also weirdly pressured - like I was being assessed for suitability? I felt like saying, hey, don't judge my dd by me, she rocks way harder!

I also found it unbearably awkward when my parents and in-laws would meet up.

All to say, I cannot imagine ever talking to the parents of someone my minor child was dating about anything consequential. Even the weather is a bit too intimate for me!

I am sure this is all personal neuroticism, though, and doesn't really have anything to do with the best ways to function in society! Just...cannot imagine the talks...

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Melissa Louise

[Jaybee]

My kids that are married were young, but not "super" young at their marriage dates: 27, 23, and 24. I grew up in a family that talked pretty openly about most everything. I especially talked to my mom about all kinds of things, so it has been only natural to do the same with my kids. There has been  a lot of mutual respect in the relationships; that doesn't mean never any bumps, but really good for the most part. There is one who doesn't talk to us, but it isn't the norm. ETA: That one isn't married.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Jaybee

[shawthorne44]

37 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

This is fascinating to me.

I don't think y'all talking about marriage (to your own kids) are wrong, at all.

It's just really, really different to the way I grew up, my cultural norms (Gen X, urban, 90's, secular).

 

The only thing really from my parents was that I should be able to support myself before I married.  (GenX, born in '70)   My mom was the weird one in my neighborhood in that she worked.  They also said they wouldn't forbid me from dating anyone, since that was how they ended up married, so they know it backfires. 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, shawthorne44 said:

 

The only thing really from my parents was that I should be able to support myself before I married.  (GenX, born in '70)   My mom was the weird one in my neighborhood in that she worked.  They also said they wouldn't forbid me from dating anyone, since that was how they ended up married, so they know it backfires. 

At least that's a decent piece of advice.

I had zero advice.

Literally, zero.

Endless criticism of my person, but zero advice.

I am not great with the advice for my own kids, though I do know to ask if they would like advice, and if they say yes, I try my best, but at least I didn't also pair it  up with the criticism.

 

[teachermom2834]

8 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Oh, and one of the things I hate most about my kids being adult is having to meet the parents of their current people - it is truly the most awkward thing - I feel like I am not dating the parents, so why must I spend time with them? My dd2 really pushed me to meet up with the mother of her then-partner, and it was fine, but also weirdly pressured - like I was being assessed for suitability? I felt like saying, hey, don't judge my dd by me, she rocks way harder!

I also found it unbearably awkward when my parents and in-laws would meet up.

All to say, I cannot imagine ever talking to the parents of someone my minor child was dating about anything consequential. Even the weather is a bit too intimate for me!

I am sure this is all personal neuroticism, though, and doesn't really have anything to do with the best ways to function in society! Just...cannot imagine the talks...

 

 

I agree with you on this and I’ve had to do a fair amount of it. I have even done holiday dinners with the parents of significant others. Do not enjoy. Of course, I do realize I can refuse but I have been roped into these things a few times out of trying to keep the peace, trying to get along in homeschool circles, trying to make things smooth for my kids, etc. There is alot of this in homeschool circles. It’s exhausting. I also don’t feel like it has anything to do with me. My kids are choosing their own partners. I don’t need to meet the parents as any part of the process. 

My 9th grade dd just went to a formal dance with a boy from her school. I was so relieved the other mom never reached out to me to meet or friended me on FB. A couple of my friends couldn’t believe I didn’t reach out to the other mom or request her on FB. The next week the kids had a little disagreement and I was really glad I didn’t know the mom. I’ve had moms reach out to me after the dating kids get into an argument and it is the worst. If my dd and this boy go their separate ways now I’m going to be glad not to know the mom and have to smooth over that awkwardness. 
 

I am sure there is a healthy balance, in fact I am positive there is! But I have been burned by the family dating/ courtship/ overinvolved parents for my kids. I think lots of times the families are so excited to meet each other and hang out and for everyone to be friends but they forget that is going to be awkward when the break up comes. That’s a lot to untangle. BTDT.
 

 

[Jaybee]

I'm not crazy about the meeting the other parents thing either, unless it happens in a natural way. One in-law: the mom wanted to meet us at a park to hang out; I felt awkward, but it turned out okay. Other opportunities after that were fine, but not numerous due to distance and circumstances. One in-law: we met at the kids' church, I think, sometime in the dating process. They knew my sister from several years before. Not too weird, and we visit occasionally when we are in town, but we are really different from them. One in-law: this happened more naturally because we lived in the same community for a time, and the kids hung out with a group of friends in high school. When they picked back up the relationship after college, we already knew them, but don't see them because of distance.

[Sneezyone]

26 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

I agree with you on this and I’ve had to do a fair amount of it. I have even done holiday dinners with the parents of significant others. Do not enjoy. Of course, I do realize I can refuse but I have been roped into these things a few times out of trying to keep the peace, trying to get along in homeschool circles, trying to make things smooth for my kids, etc. There is alot of this in homeschool circles. It’s exhausting. I also don’t feel like it has anything to do with me. My kids are choosing their own partners. I don’t need to meet the parents as any part of the process. 

My 9th grade dd just went to a formal dance with a boy from her school. I was so relieved the other mom never reached out to me to meet or friended me on FB. A couple of my friends couldn’t believe I didn’t reach out to the other mom or request her on FB. The next week the kids had a little disagreement and I was really glad I didn’t know the mom. I’ve had moms reach out to me after the dating kids get into an argument and it is the worst. If my dd and this boy go their separate ways now I’m going to be glad not to know the mom and have to smooth over that awkwardness. 
 

I am sure there is a healthy balance, in fact I am positive there is! But I have been burned by the family dating/ courtship/ overinvolved parents for my kids. I think lots of times the families are so excited to meet each other and hang out and for everyone to be friends but they forget that is going to be awkward when the break up comes. That’s a lot to untangle. BTDT.
 

 

Everything about this feels cringe to me. I don’t even want DD to point out the parents at sporting events!

[Scarlett]

In my first marriage my mom never met MIL in 26 years of marriage.  Second marriage we had both  sets of parents to my house for dinner 3 weeks after we met.  I love and adore my current MIL and she and mom are friends.

Balance seems key. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Scarlett

[teachermom2834]

5 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Everything about this feels cringe to me. I don’t even want DD to point out the parents at sporting events!

You are correct. It is totally cringe. Now that my youngest is in school instead of homeschooled it is easier to avoid that stuff. And I have the scars from having been through it with three boys so I intentionally keep my head down if I might encounter someone. Lol. 
 

One of my boys had lots of learning to do in his high school years. Not fun to get texts to the tune of “your son said blah blah blah to my daughter and now she is crying” and that sort of thing. I have scars I’m telling ya!

I’m okay with meeting in laws at the rehearsal dinner or a bridal shower. There are lots of occasions to visit once married so if they are going to be permanent that is a different situation. But I can wait until then.
 

 

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

You are correct. It is totally cringe. Now that my youngest is in school instead of homeschooled it is easier to avoid that stuff. And I have the scars from having been through it with three boys so I intentionally keep my head down if I might encounter someone. Lol. 
 

One of my boys had lots of learning to do in his high school years. Not fun to get texts to the tune of “your son said blah blah blah to my daughter and now she is crying” and that sort of thing. I have scars I’m telling ya!

I’m okay with meeting in laws at the rehearsal dinner or a bridal shower. There are lots of occasions to visit once married so if they are going to be permanent that is a different situation. But I can wait until then.
 

 

I cannot even!! That’s awful!

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, shawthorne44 said:

The only thing really from my parents was that I should be able to support myself before I married. 

This is a fantastic piece of advice. My mom gave me the same piece of advice (I was born in the 80's). Even though I'm a SAHM now, I felt like that piece of advice goes beyond giving someone financial stability.  

[shawthorne44]

14 hours ago, Clarita said:

This is a fantastic piece of advice. My mom gave me the same piece of advice (I was born in the 80's). Even though I'm a SAHM now, I felt like that piece of advice goes beyond giving someone financial stability.  

I think the reason that my mom worked is that she preferred working outside the home to the cleaning the house.   So, we had a cleaning lady growing up and we went out to eat more than if she wasn't working.  She'd seen friend's marriages suffer because the woman felt trapped.   

The advice worked out well for me.  DH is the stay at home parent, homeschooling and building our house and I bring in the money.  So, for us we only have one income and we live the one-income lifestyle.  I feel blessed.