Help me decide how I react (job related, long)

[Moonhawk]

So, shortly, background:

I took an Admin Specialist job July 2021. The interview process covered future plans: January 2022 the Boss would retire, Secondary Boss would take their job, and I get Secondary Boss job. Being told "this will be your office in January", explicit "fast track your training you so you're ready in January", etc. Besides us three, there was an assistant at the front desk. I was unsure about taking the position originally, but with the expectation of advancement I figured it was worth it.

Well, things happened. November 1, Assistant at front desk left. I got moved to the front desk "temporarily" while they looked for a replacement. I held onto my original duties and assumed the assistant's also.

In January, Boss retired. Secondary Boss, after a couple weeks of cold feet, assumed his rightful place. I was back to "fast track to Secondary Boss position, once we get the front desk covered."

Here we are in July, we have not found a front desk person, and they stopped looking in June (posting came down). No known plans for trying again.

Boss and me have held the dept together surprisingly well considering. He's handling a lot more complicated things than I am, though, since my training effectively stopped once original Boss retired as we went into survival mode. But I am definitely putting in my hours and holding up my side.

This week, I was told they were posting Secondary Boss position: we need a third body in the office and having someone that already has experience in the industry would really ease the strain. It posted Thursday afternoon. I am expecting they have already received applications. Boss has not suggested, implied, or even seemed to have considered me applying for the job. He is just seeming relieved at the thought of having another body in the dept soon. Understandably.

I have been up front for 9 months, and only 3 months at my original desk. I am feeling a bit bait-switched, even if I know logically it's just how the cookie crumbled. 

So, I don't know how I want to respond to this. Do I apply to this position? 

• Boss and I are very simpatico, this is not a snub due to personality conflicts or anything like that. Last week, he was still trying to fit in a little training so I could take Big Task usually given to Second's position. He sincerely did look for a front desk replacement so we could go with the original plan. 
• 4 people have already given me "advice" or have quasi-assumed I'm going for the position. Former front desk (she moved to another dept) also reached out to be excited for me because I'm finally "up for your position". 
• I am very good at what I do. I would be very good at the Secondary position.
• I am not qualified for this position yet. I need more months of training, which can't happen until we find another person for the front desk. Which isn't going to happen, apparently. 
• I don't know if I want to pit myself against better-qualified applicants for this position and drop my estimation in my boss's eyes.
• I know if we find a person to fill the position, the front desk urgency will go down to none. Effectively, I will be stuck there. I do not want to be front desk.
• But, DH and I are talking about moving next May 2023. If I get it only to leave less than a year later I will have harmed the dept. That feels scummy.
• But, if we don't end up moving, this is going to be my only chance for advancement for realistically 2+ years. The idea of "if you're not moving forward you're falling behind" is something I think about a lot job-wise. Realistically this is the best employer in my area for my skillset, it kind of caps out how far I can go in this geographic location.

An added consideration: my annual performance review is coming up in less than 2 weeks. I expect regardless we are going to talk about my future trajectory. I could hold off applying until that meeting is done. I want to put the ball in his court and see how he responds, press him on how he sees this playing out. I could pose some other options if I'm going to be stuck in the front desk: maybe we move me to an office manager title, or some other made up position that will better encapsulate that I'm taking on two roles. I could do some general online training for Second Position to shore up my weaknesses and show that I am eager and willing to take on the Second job.  I could just do nothing since I might not even be here long enough for it to matter anyway.

Thanks for reading if you got this far. It's helpful to type it out and assess where I am. 

Any thoughts, advice, or considerations are welcome. What would you do?

[prairiewindmomma]

I would bring up the conversation in my annual review.

I would feel zero guilt about taking a promotion and then leaving a year later. Your loyalty should be to yourself and your family. You owe nothing to the corporation other than a job well done in trade for salary and benefits. It’s a transactional relationship. 

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I would bring up the conversation in my annual review.

I would feel zero guilt about taking a promotion and then leaving a year later. Your loyalty should be to yourself and your family. You owe nothing to the corporation other than a job well done in trade for salary and benefits. It’s a transactional relationship. 

This. And a ton of employers seem to believe that the relationship is really a one sided situation.

[livetoread]

9 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I would feel zero guilt about taking a promotion and then leaving a year later.

Exactly. They seem content to leave you in the front desk position because it meets their needs and haven't asked if it meets yours. If you want the Secondary position, you should ask for it. Frankly I would have been ticked that they even posted it. But even if they had asked you if you wanted it and then posted the front desk job instead, if you leave, you leave. That's just the way it goes and is certainly not a reason for you to not pursue the job you want and they dangled.

[Amethyst]

Is it possible that Boss assumes that you will be applying, but he does not want to give the appearance of favoritism? Does the company have a policy that jobs must be posted for x amount of time, open to all? If you want this job, apply and don’t worry about all the what ifs

[fraidycat]

Apply for the job now.

Bring it up in your review.

Talk to your DH to see if moving is really on the table. Now would be the time to start downsizing and getting ready for that, anyway.

Make a decision to stay in your position or promote up once the decision is yours to make and you have all the info needed to decide; ie: have an offer for the job, and you know what page you and DH are on re: moving.

 

[Carol in Cal.]

Definitely apply.  Do not mention the possible move.  It’s so iffy that it’s irrelevant.  

[Clarita]

Apply.

2 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

• I am not qualified for this position yet. I need more months of training, which can't happen until we find another person for the front desk. Which isn't going to happen, apparently. 
• I don't know if I want to pit myself against better-qualified applicants for this position and drop my estimation in my boss's eyes.

I don't think you would drop your estimation in your current boss's eye. If your boss gets lucky and finds that better-qualified candidate who is willing to take the job, then good for him. He'll still need you to do whatever you're doing now.

2 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

I know if we find a person to fill the position, the front desk urgency will go down to none. Effectively, I will be stuck there. I do not want to be front desk.

Well then you make your decision about the job if he finds this better-qualified candidate. Right now that person is mythical.

2 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

But, DH and I are talking about moving next May 2023. If I get it only to leave less than a year later I will have harmed the dept. That feels scummy.

Some people do feel this is scummy but at the end of the day it's just a job. Most people in reality can't truly foresee what will happen in a year. Sure most of the time things stay the same old same old but life can always throw you curve balls. If you leaving does irreparable damage to this company it's not a very strong company (they have more problems than just you leaving).

2 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

But, if we don't end up moving, this is going to be my only chance for advancement for realistically 2+ years. The idea of "if you're not moving forward you're falling behind" is something I think about a lot job-wise. Realistically this is the best employer in my area for my skillset, it kind of caps out how far I can go in this geographic location.

You should just stop thinking about the idea "if you're not moving forward you're falling behind." If you want a promotion great go do the steps necessary to get the promotion. Ask for it, get trained for it, get the education needed for it whatever that might be. I believe it's also perfectly OK for someone to just be right where they need/want to be even if it means they aren't moving "ahead". A job is a job is a job, sometimes it's just the thing that pays your bills. It is not a reflection of you as a person. You are not failing if you are not getting promoted. There area  lot of reason for not getting promoted and a lot of reasons you may not want to be promoted.

If you are not qualified for the job (truly not qualified to the point you can't do it). The downside is actually that you get hired for it and are now incompetent. Then your estimation will drop in your boss's eyes. Getting the actual promotion is very different than fulfilling parts or all of that role "temporarily". People cut you a lot of slack (boss and coworkers alike) when you are thrust into the work, when that promotion happens they expect you to do that job well not just passable. (At least that's how I feel from experience.) You can see the Peter Principle if you want a more in-depth idea of how this works from people who research and studied it. 

[QueenCat]

I wouldn't wait two weeks until your eval. Your boss might make a decision before then. Speak up now. What you're experiencing isn't right. They should be looking for a new front desk person and move you to the promised position. 

[elegantlion]

The way I see it is that they hired you for a job, moved you to the front desk, couldn't hire for that position, so now they're hiring for the position in which you were originally hired in the first place. In the meantime you've been doing that job and the front desk, and now they want to stick you on the front desk and hire someone with more experience for the position you were originally hired. 

UGH! Yes, I would not be happy. I'd be meeting with the boss before your evaluation. Bait and switch indeed. 

[JustEm]

I'd apply for the position but I would also start applying for new jobs. I'd have a hard time caring about a workplace that treated me like that.

[Miss Tick]

13 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

I am not qualified for this position yet. I need more months of training, which can't happen until we find another person for the front desk. Which isn't going to happen, apparently. 

There was a discussion on the Boards recently where someone pointed out that this type of thinking is more stereotypically female thinking, and that the male analog is to apply regardless of having the qualifications stated in the posting. Kind of a "what can it hurt" approach. Also, if you don't apply then no one is forced to tell you directly why they promised you the job and then never followed through.

[Garga]

Apply for the job, don’t wait. Get your resume updated TODAY and write a cover letter and turn it in on Monday. Make the verbiage on your resume match the job posting. Point out in the cover letter that you were hired with the understanding that this would be your job and you’re glad they’re moving forward on that now. 

You can’t predict the future, so make your decision based on today, not on “maybe we’ll move”. 

Doesn’t matter if you need the training, apply anyway. You were told that you would have that job. It’s dodgy on their part that they’ve posted for it. I would 100% bring up in the interview that you were hired with the understanding that this would be your job. 

If you don’t get this job that you were hired for, start looking for a job somewhere else.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Garga

[livetoread]

Just want to add that they are probably assuming that as long as you aren't speaking up, you are fine with the situation, or at least fine enough that they can keep you in that position. If they were looking out for you, someone would have come to you before the job was posted and either encouraged you to apply or at least explained that they needed to post it because of policy or whatever. The fact that everyone is just keeping quiet about it makes me think they want you where you are. So you have to decide if that's what you want too, and if not, then time to speak up asap. I would be having the discussion before your review, as well. I would not ask them where they see me fitting in until I had already shown where I see myself and where I want to be. Say what you want and then ask them where they see you.

It sounds like maybe you are already starting to rationalize why you shouldn't get the Secondary job. Don't do that to yourself if you want it. Fight for it.

[happi duck]

Another vote for apply and say something *now*

[EKS]

And yet another vote for applying now.

[KidsHappen]

I would go to the boss and explain that you took the job because you were told that you would be moved up to 2nd boss position and that they can hire a temp for front desk if need be.

[Moonhawk]

18 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Is it possible that Boss assumes that you will be applying, but he does not want to give the appearance of favoritism? Does the company have a policy that jobs must be posted for x amount of time, open to all? If you want this job, apply and don’t worry about all the what ifs

They could have posted internal only; they did not. Boss also mentioned that they are doing this since they couldn't find the front desk person and so we're going to do this to get a third person in. That's what I'm basing the idea that he isn't expecting me to apply/get the job: if I take it, there isn't a third person coming in.

16 hours ago, Clarita said:

...

You should just stop thinking about the idea "if you're not moving forward you're falling behind." If you want a promotion great go do the steps necessary to get the promotion. Ask for it, get trained for it, get the education needed for it whatever that might be. I believe it's also perfectly OK for someone to just be right where they need/want to be even if it means they aren't moving "ahead". A job is a job is a job, sometimes it's just the thing that pays your bills. It is not a reflection of you as a person. You are not failing if you are not getting promoted. There area  lot of reason for not getting promoted and a lot of reasons you may not want to be promoted.

...

Sorry I wasn't clear. The comment about "not moving forward is falling behind" is not a universal truth, obviously. I was using it to simply explain how I feel about me in this situation. I switched tracks to take this job, letting some of my other skills go, with the expectation I would be growing in other ways. That is not what's happening.

5 hours ago, livetoread said:

Just want to add that they are probably assuming that as long as you aren't speaking up, you are fine with the situation, or at least fine enough that they can keep you in that position. If they were looking out for you, someone would have come to you before the job was posted and either encouraged you to apply or at least explained that they needed to post it because of policy or whatever. The fact that everyone is just keeping quiet about it makes me think they want you where you are. So you have to decide if that's what you want too, and if not, then time to speak up asap. I would be having the discussion before your review, as well. I would not ask them where they see me fitting in until I had already shown where I see myself and where I want to be. Say what you want and then ask them where they see you.

It sounds like maybe you are already starting to rationalize why you shouldn't get the Secondary job. Don't do that to yourself if you want it. Fight for it.

So, I have been nicely vocal about my spot and not liking the front desk. Not annoyingly, not making it an unpleasant work environment, but he knows and has commiserated with my situation as much as a Boss could. Boss recognized this is not what I signed up for, and until this past week had been reassuring about it being temporary.  

I think that, as far as he is thinking about how this goes, he might feel bad about my situation, but not enough to stop from seeking relief for himself in an increasingly stressful situation. And probably telling himself that as soon as we have this new person trained, we will find a front desk so I can take the #3 spot and he'll train me more thoroughly and give me a good ladder of titles to climb even if I'm really staying in place. Once he has time, he'll do right by me. <-- This isn't what I want, but probably his justification for how it might shake out. 

[Clarita]

4 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

I think that, as far as he is thinking about how this goes, he might feel bad about my situation, but not enough to stop from seeking relief for himself in an increasingly stressful situation. And probably telling himself that as soon as we have this new person trained, we will find a front desk so I can take the #3 spot and he'll train me more thoroughly and give me a good ladder of titles to climb even if I'm really staying in place. Once he has time, he'll do right by me. <-- This isn't what I want, but probably his justification for how it might shake out. 

So, if I'm getting this right ideally there would be three people, a front desk person, admin specialist, and secondary boss. Being optimistic, I'd say what he's trying to do is get a second body in there and hoping he can then figure out where to put everyone. Sometimes employers will offer different job to a candidate than the one they interviewed for. Something like "hey I know you applied to be x, but would you be willing to be y. When milestones are met you could be promoted to x. Here's the compensation package what do you think?" I don't know how big the company is and how much say boss has over the whole thing, but there are companies whose policy is to always go through the process even though there in someone internal that can be promoted to a position.

[Clarita]

16 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

They could have posted internal only; they did not. Boss also mentioned that they are doing this since they couldn't find the front desk person and so we're going to do this to get a third person in. That's what I'm basing the idea that he isn't expecting me to apply/get the job: if I take it, there isn't a third person coming in.

Be very clear that you want this job. Depending on how strongly you feel about it it's not in bad form to threaten to leave if you don't get said job. Ask what you need to do to be "qualified" or promoted into that job. They need to give you a very specific goals/checklist, where it only hinges on you accomplishing those goals. Be very serious about it. 

[Clarita]

In the original post you talked about needing training. Boss needs to start giving you and scheduling in that training otherwise you'll leave. If he won't do this you'll probably never see that promotion in this company.

[Catwoman]

8 hours ago, QueenCat said:

I wouldn't wait two weeks until your eval. Your boss might make a decision before then. Speak up now. What you're experiencing isn't right. They should be looking for a new front desk person and move you to the promised position. 

Yes! And I’ll be honest — if I were the one in this situation, I’d be telling the boss I expected that promotion, and if I didn’t get it, he would be looking for two new employees because there’s no way I would be working the front desk while the boss hired someone else for the job I had been promised.

I would not trust the boss to do the right thing later on, because if the new person does a good job, there will be no promotion available for you. As was already suggested, let the boss hire a temp for the front desk while he trains you for your promotion. 
 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Catwoman
Forgot something

[JustEm]

I think you need to have a talk with your boss and straight up say you want that position. That you are unhappy in the position you are in, which isn't what you were hired for, and when you were hired the expectation was that you would be getting that position. That him not finding a replacement for the front desk shouldn't effect you getting the position you were expected to get. Don't tell him you'll seek employment elsewhere because of the snub but he'd be smart to realize it is a high likelihood if he continues to find someone else after you expressed your disappointment. There is no reason to be silent about this issue or to allude to it.

[Garga]

56 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

. Don't tell him you'll seek employment elsewhere because of the snub but he'd be smart to realize it is a high likelihood if he continues to find someone else after you expressed your disappointment. There is no reason to be silent about this issue or to allude to it.

I agree. Don’t make announcements that you’ll look for another job. But be very clear and up front that you want this job. This isn’t a time for being subtle. This is a time for frank talk. Walk in with your resume and cover letter and say, “Boss, do you have a few minutes?” Plan out what you’ll say. Something like, “Here’s my resume and a cover letter because I’m applying for X position. Frankly, I’m surprised that I have to apply for the position I was hired for and that you’ve posted for it outside the company. When did my career track change?” And then see what he says and go from there.

 

[katilac]

23 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

 

• I am not qualified for this position yet. I need more months of training, which can't happen until we find another person for the front desk. . 
• I don't know if I want to pit myself against better-qualified applicants for this position and drop my estimation in my boss's eyes.
•  
• But, DH and I are talking about moving next May 2023. If I get it only to leave less than a year later I will have harmed the dept. That feels scummy.

100% apply, while also looking around for what else might be out there. 

Don't tell yourself no! Apply, let them tell you yes or no. I've never known a boss to lose respect for someone bc they applied for a job that others were more qualified for. That would be weird. 

Don't worry about hurting the department. The department does not give a flying flip whether it hurts you (see: you being stuck at front desk). 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Yes! And I’ll be honest — if I were the one in this situation, I’d be telling the boss I expected that promotion, and if I didn’t get it, he would be looking for two new employees because there’s no way I would be working the front desk while the boss hired someone else for the job I had been promised.

I would not trust the boss to do the right thing later on, because if the new person does a good job, there will be no promotion available for you. As was already suggested, let the boss hire a temp for the front desk while he trains you for your promotion. 
 

Yup. Completely agree. I just had to make a very similar pronouncement at my job. My boss offered me up to do reception work for another attorney who is renting space. I said I do not want to do that; it’s a demotion for me and my hands are full with the paralegal work I was hired to do. 

[Danae]

13 hours ago, Garga said:

I agree. Don’t make announcements that you’ll look for another job. But be very clear and up front that you want this job. This isn’t a time for being subtle. This is a time for frank talk. Walk in with your resume and cover letter and say, “Boss, do you have a few minutes?” Plan out what you’ll say. Something like, “Here’s my resume and a cover letter because I’m applying for X position. Frankly, I’m surprised that I have to apply for the position I was hired for and that you’ve posted for it outside the company. When did my career track change?” And then see what he says and go from there.

 

This!  Be very clear, “I was hired for a position and a future plan that did not involve staffing the front desk.  I was happy to fill in for a short time, but I am not willing to have my career redirected permanently.”

 

 

 

[Catwoman]

@Moonhawk Have you decided what you are going to do? I'm sorry you're stuck in such an uncomfortable situation, but I hope you're able to stand up for yourself and get the promotion you deserve!!!

[Garga]

@Moonhawk Any updates? 

[Moonhawk]

So, I did talk with Boss on Tuesday. Bit of a mixed bag.

I told him I'd be applying for the position. And that when I was on the website reviewing the posting I noticed the Assistant position wasn't posted (I knew this already, but we hadn't explicitly talked about it).

He said they hadn't had any luck on the Assistant position and the feedback they got was the $ was too low, and so the new plan is that the Secondary person will cover the front for a couple hours. So if I get the Secondary, they would advertise my current position and after someone is hired I'd be covering up front a couple hours (lunch I always assumed, but maybe more?), and if someone else is hired instead for Second they will help me out up front so I can have some focus time on my other duties.

Reading between the lines, we are becoming a 3-person department and whoever is in my current position will be up front permanently. 

So, not great news to me.

He doesn't seem opposed to my getting the job, but it's not being treated as a given either. He made sure I knew the cutoff date for applying (it wasn't on the website yet, only the open date was showing) and he asked for me to make sure I get my application in before that day.

I'm doing some online little trainings to supplement my resume this weekend that are Secondary-position specific. I'll put in my application on Sunday.

My official annual review is scheduled now for Tuesday.

First review of applicants for Secondary is August 4.

In the space between this application and interviews for Secondary, I will be putting in applications elsewhere. There are no other opportunities close by, so will see if there are things for remote work that I can apply for. 

 

[KungFuPanda]

On 7/16/2022 at 9:05 PM, Moonhawk said:

So, shortly, background:

I took an Admin Specialist job July 2021. The interview process covered future plans: January 2022 the Boss would retire, Secondary Boss would take their job, and I get Secondary Boss job. Being told "this will be your office in January", explicit "fast track your training you so you're ready in January", etc. Besides us three, there was an assistant at the front desk. I was unsure about taking the position originally, but with the expectation of advancement I figured it was worth it.

Well, things happened. November 1, Assistant at front desk left. I got moved to the front desk "temporarily" while they looked for a replacement. I held onto my original duties and assumed the assistant's also.

In January, Boss retired. Secondary Boss, after a couple weeks of cold feet, assumed his rightful place. I was back to "fast track to Secondary Boss position, once we get the front desk covered."

Here we are in July, we have not found a front desk person, and they stopped looking in June (posting came down). No known plans for trying again.

Boss and me have held the dept together surprisingly well considering. He's handling a lot more complicated things than I am, though, since my training effectively stopped once original Boss retired as we went into survival mode. But I am definitely putting in my hours and holding up my side.

This week, I was told they were posting Secondary Boss position: we need a third body in the office and having someone that already has experience in the industry would really ease the strain. It posted Thursday afternoon. I am expecting they have already received applications. Boss has not suggested, implied, or even seemed to have considered me applying for the job. He is just seeming relieved at the thought of having another body in the dept soon. Understandably.

I have been up front for 9 months, and only 3 months at my original desk. I am feeling a bit bait-switched, even if I know logically it's just how the cookie crumbled. 

So, I don't know how I want to respond to this. Do I apply to this position? 

• Boss and I are very simpatico, this is not a snub due to personality conflicts or anything like that. Last week, he was still trying to fit in a little training so I could take Big Task usually given to Second's position. He sincerely did look for a front desk replacement so we could go with the original plan. 
• 4 people have already given me "advice" or have quasi-assumed I'm going for the position. Former front desk (she moved to another dept) also reached out to be excited for me because I'm finally "up for your position". 
• I am very good at what I do. I would be very good at the Secondary position.
• I am not qualified for this position yet. I need more months of training, which can't happen until we find another person for the front desk. Which isn't going to happen, apparently. 
• I don't know if I want to pit myself against better-qualified applicants for this position and drop my estimation in my boss's eyes.
• I know if we find a person to fill the position, the front desk urgency will go down to none. Effectively, I will be stuck there. I do not want to be front desk.
• But, DH and I are talking about moving next May 2023. If I get it only to leave less than a year later I will have harmed the dept. That feels scummy.
• But, if we don't end up moving, this is going to be my only chance for advancement for realistically 2+ years. The idea of "if you're not moving forward you're falling behind" is something I think about a lot job-wise. Realistically this is the best employer in my area for my skillset, it kind of caps out how far I can go in this geographic location.

An added consideration: my annual performance review is coming up in less than 2 weeks. I expect regardless we are going to talk about my future trajectory. I could hold off applying until that meeting is done. I want to put the ball in his court and see how he responds, press him on how he sees this playing out. I could pose some other options if I'm going to be stuck in the front desk: maybe we move me to an office manager title, or some other made up position that will better encapsulate that I'm taking on two roles. I could do some general online training for Second Position to shore up my weaknesses and show that I am eager and willing to take on the Second job.  I could just do nothing since I might not even be here long enough for it to matter anyway.

Thanks for reading if you got this far. It's helpful to type it out and assess where I am. 

Any thoughts, advice, or considerations are welcome. What would you do?

You absolutely apply for the job and remind your boss of the original plan under which you accepted the position. Clearly, Second Boss is a more desirable position and an easier one to fill, so don’t even worry about moving. You have effectively accepted a demotion. Once someone is hired to assume your original track, you have list your leverage. I’d make it clear that you move to 2nd Boss or you move on. THAT’S how the cookie crumbles. 
 

Ack. Sorry. Late to the party and missed the update. I was so annoyed by the original post that I felt compelled to immediately rant. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by KungFuPanda

[Harriet Vane]

3 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

You absolutely apply for the job and remind your boss of the original plan under which you accepted the position. Clearly, Second Boss is a more desirable position and an easier one to fill, so don’t even worry about moving. You have effectively accepted a demotion. Once someone is hired to assume your original track, you have list your leverage. I’d make it clear that you move to 2nd Boss or you move on. THAT’S how the cookie crumbles. 
 

Ack. Sorry. Late to the party and missed the update. I was so annoyed by the original post that I felt compelled to immediately rant. 

I agree.

[QueenCat]

3 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

So, I did talk with Boss on Tuesday. Bit of a mixed bag.

I told him I'd be applying for the position. And that when I was on the website reviewing the posting I noticed the Assistant position wasn't posted (I knew this already, but we hadn't explicitly talked about it).

He said they hadn't had any luck on the Assistant position and the feedback they got was the $ was too low, and so the new plan is that the Secondary person will cover the front for a couple hours. So if I get the Secondary, they would advertise my current position and after someone is hired I'd be covering up front a couple hours (lunch I always assumed, but maybe more?), and if someone else is hired instead for Second they will help me out up front so I can have some focus time on my other duties.

Reading between the lines, we are becoming a 3-person department and whoever is in my current position will be up front permanently. 

So, not great news to me.

He doesn't seem opposed to my getting the job, but it's not being treated as a given either. He made sure I knew the cutoff date for applying (it wasn't on the website yet, only the open date was showing) and he asked for me to make sure I get my application in before that day.

I'm doing some online little trainings to supplement my resume this weekend that are Secondary-position specific. I'll put in my application on Sunday.

My official annual review is scheduled now for Tuesday.

First review of applicants for Secondary is August 4.

In the space between this application and interviews for Secondary, I will be putting in applications elsewhere. There are no other opportunities close by, so will see if there are things for remote work that I can apply for. 

 

What did he say when you reminded him that you were promised this position when it came open? I would make it clear that I wasn't able to accept a permanent demotion. Which is what it would be to not put you in the Secondary position. Move on if you aren't given the secondary position. Your boss is being disrespectful  to you by not honoring the original agreement. That won't change if you aren't given the position.

[Catwoman]

Thanks for the update -- I think you are VERY smart to be putting in applications elsewhere! 

I feel like this was sort of a bait-and-switch situation, and your boss shouldn't have even advertised the position at all. You shouldn't have to apply for a position that was supposed to be yours!

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, QueenCat said:

What did he say when you reminded him that you were promised this position when it came open? I would make it clear that I wasn't able to accept a permanent demotion. Which is what it would be to not put you in the Secondary position. Move on if you aren't given the secondary position. Your boss is being disrespectful  to you by not honoring the original agreement. That won't change if you aren't given the position.

We were posting at the same time -- I agree completely!!!

The boss has a lot of nerve saying it's ok to apply for the position that had already been promised! GRRRRR!!!!!

[Moonhawk]

17 minutes ago, QueenCat said:

What did he say when you reminded him that you were promised this position when it came open? I would make it clear that I wasn't able to accept a permanent demotion. Which is what it would be to not put you in the Secondary position. Move on if you aren't given the secondary position. Your boss is being disrespectful  to you by not honoring the original agreement. That won't change if you aren't given the position.

He didn't respond to that part. Just did the frog face pushed lips together semi nod. 

To be fair, he wasn't in the lead position when I was hired, he wasn't the one saying this at the start. It was talked about as what will happen, but not guaranteed (ie not in writing).

Although he certainly gave me no reason to question it until recently. 

I didn't say I was walking if I was stuck up front. I'm sure it has crossed his mind. Or it should have by now, he's a pretty smart guy. There is the real factor of finding a place to walk to, though. I don't have time to do a good thorough job search and I'm irritated that they are adding this to my plate. 

[BlsdMama]

On 7/16/2022 at 9:07 PM, fraidycat said:

Apply for the job now.

Bring it up in your review.

.

 

👍🏼 

[2squared]

I would be surprised if an employer outright promised a promotion while hiring a new employee. I would expect language to the effect of, “this is the next step” or “this is the direction I would like to go,” but not 100% you will be promoted at x time. Employers don’t know if new employees will succeed in the roles they are hired into, much less if they would be automatically ready for promotion.

I also would be surprised if any employer could make a detailed, specific list of items that needed to be done for an employee to be ready for a promotion. So much of performance and skills are subjective and not checklist, and promotions are usually evaluated versus other employees. 

[Moonhawk]

On 7/23/2022 at 5:33 PM, 2squared said:

I would be surprised if an employer outright promised a promotion while hiring a new employee. I would expect language to the effect of, “this is the next step” or “this is the direction I would like to go,” but not 100% you will be promoted at x time. Employers don’t know if new employees will succeed in the roles they are hired into, much less if they would be automatically ready for promotion.

I also would be surprised if any employer could make a detailed, specific list of items that needed to be done for an employee to be ready for a promotion. So much of performance and skills are subjective and not checklist, and promotions are usually evaluated versus other employees. 

They knew for a while that original Boss would be retiring. She gave them months of notice, for various reasons. Secondary Boss was hired with the intention of replacing her and that was well over a year before she actually left. 

The position of Sales VP at my previous company was handled similarly: hire a General Sales Manager under then-current VP, and once VP became COO, the General Sales Manager took Sales VP place. Everyone knew that's why he was hired, it was just getting the ducks in a row so the transitions were smooth and there was time to make sure he had time to work with his predecessor and get trained on the particulars of the company. And, yes, make sure they would succeed in the role they were hired into -- but, understanding the role they were "hired into" is actually the higher position, not the holding place.

I guess because I've seen this before, it didn't seem at all odd to me. 

---

Had a family thing happen on Sunday so didn't get my application in. Will do either Tuesday or Wednesday after I've processed my performance review. Boss gave me the printout of his evaluation this afternoon, with just the "6 Month Goals" area left blank. Nothing concerning in the rest of the document. We will discuss any changes I want to include, and the Goals section together tomorrow.

[Moonhawk]

Performance review went really, really well. No issues, no negatives, nothing brought up in person that wasn't on the draft version, except more positives.

6 Month Goal Conversation: we need to have 3 goals written down for the eval. He specifically said to keep the goals flexible enough that they would apply "no matter what position you're in" and to make sure they were not front-desk specific. (eg. we had a discussion about one of the goals could be "finalizing front desk procedures and tools..." that I've been doing to streamline my work and make the front work well -- no one up front before me had any training/experience for reception or an assistant, so there's a lot of issues -- but I was frank I didn't want to pigeon-hole me or to make it seem like my goals included being up front in any capacity, and he completely agreed with the assessment.) One of the goals is to directly take on a Second Boss duty. 

Raise: got the maximum allowed. He explained it will go into effect mid-August, and "it may not even matter by then" (ie, I could have the new position by the time it hits the books).

He was careful not to say that I definitely have the job, no promises and nothing direct, but at least I'm not out of the running at the gate and he does seem to be giving careful consideration to how we'll be splitting duties if I get Secondary. We had calendar conversations of some events coming up in August-September-October, and when I asked if we handled XYZ Event, he said "Yes we do, and by we, I mean you :)". 

Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but I am taking all the positives to heart to help keep my head in the game. 

Working on my resume tonight and seeing how this goes. I've never shown a current resume to a current employer so I need to take some time to figure out the best way to present my experience in the office optimally.

[Jaybee]

That certainly sounds encouraging!

[Catwoman]

I’m glad things went so well!!!!! Thanks for the update!

[Soror]

I'm so glad to read the good update. It does sound very promising. Keep us posted.

[Garga]

Thank you for the update! I hope it goes exactly as you wish it to go! 

[Moonhawk]

Small update: they set up a short video interview with me for Tuesday afternoon. The HR person who called [my cellphone while I was at my desk] said I was being treated like every other applicant. 

So prayers, well wishes, good vibrations, etc., that you're able to send me on Tuesday would be appreciated. I know there is at least 1 other applicant getting a video interview (maybe 1 more, too). If it goes well, next step would be an in-person interview the following week.

While the in-person is hours long, the 20-minute video interview is biggest determiner of my success. Logically, just knowing how the office works, if I'm not the only person offered an in-person interview, I probably didn't get the job. Always a possibility it still goes my way, but the chances get decimated. 

If they see another applicant in-person, I'll be pushing my application out in earnest, even before the official decision comes out.

[Frances]

Best of luck on Tuesday!!

[Spryte]

Good luck! Crossing fingers and toes for you!

[Soror]

Lots of luck to you!

[Melissa in Australia]

sending positive thoughts

[Catwoman]

Thinking of you today @Moonhawk  and sending lots of positive thoughts and good luck for your interview today!!!

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Catwoman