Oscars/Will Smith

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I didn’t want to hijack the alopecia thread but I kind of wanted to discuss this. As I posted there, my sister had alopecia and it was devastating for her. If someone had joked about it she would have been very hurt.  Jada’s face was nothing but hurt, and I don’t condone violence and it could have been handled better but…there was something really satisfying about Will Smith slapping Chris Rock.  I actually assumed it was staged until Will Smith’s apology this morning.

Obviously we shouldn’t go around slapping people and it detracted from some legitimate firsts and winners last night but still…as a wife who is married to a very kind and mild man who I sometimes wish would stand up for me a little more…it was satisfying.  Joking about her well known struggle with alopecia crossed some serious lines for me and was clearly hurtful.

Feel free to disagree. I really don’t condone violence.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Acorn]

I was just reading news trying to figure out what the other post meant. A person’s syndrome or illness should never be a joke. 

[1234]

I didn’t like the joke. There are several comedians who I think are way offensive but they still get quite a bit of a support and I wish they didn’t. But, I think what Will Smith did was more out of line and I would be beyond angry if my Dh did something like that.

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Joker2

[Soror]

My question was did Chris Rock know that she had alopecia? If so, then yes, horribly bad taste and crossing the line.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

6 minutes ago, Soror said:

My question was did Chris Rock know that she had alopecia? If so, then yes, horribly bad taste and crossing the line.

She’s been very public about it since 2018.  I thought it was fairly common knowledge that she has a medical condition.

My great uncle owned a country bar when I was little and for decades before I was born.  By country I mean it was 20 miles to another tavern or store, aside from tiny little country groceries. It wasn’t uncommon for someone to make a joke about someone’s wife or daughter and get punched in the face there. There were just lines that were never to be crossed. Maybe that’s why I don’t find this incident that shocking. Inappropriate, but not really shocking to me.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[BlsdMama]

I thought it was rockstar as was his speech. 
 

Hollywood and entitled actors behave as if nothing is off limits. Sometimes lines must be drawn and held. I can’t tell you how much I respected the action, the exchange, and the speech. And if it says something unpleasant about me, so be it. 
 

Chris Rock never draws or respects the line. If it was addressed behind the scenes, I highly doubt he would have seen the light. He owes her a very public apology. 

[Elizabeth86]

11 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

She’s been very public about it since 2018.  I thought it was fairly common knowledge that she has a medical condition.

My great uncle owned a country bar when I was little and for decades before I was born.  By country I mean it was 20 miles to another tavern or store, aside from tiny little country groceries. It wasn’t uncommon for someone to make a joke about someone’s wife or daughter and get punched in the face there. There were just lines that were never to be crossed. Maybe that’s why I don’t find this incident that shocking. Inappropriate, but not really shocking to me.

Right? I'm over here going, men slap people? I would have expected a first, but whatever.

[catz]

Sorry, I don't think words justify violence.  These people have the biggest platform available to them to respond appropriately and I would have been 100% behind them in doing so.  It's not shocking to me it happened.  It's more shocking to me that everyone thinks it is just fine.  I would be livid with any male in my life throwing up violence as a response to someone being an AH verbally.

 

[sassenach]

19 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

I thought it was rockstar as was his speech. 
 

Hollywood and entitled actors behave as if nothing is off limits. Sometimes lines must be drawn and held. I can’t tell you how much I respected the action, the exchange, and the speech. And if it says something unpleasant about me, so be it. 
 

Chris Rock never draws or respects the line. If it was addressed behind the scenes, I highly doubt he would have seen the light. He owes her a very public apology. 

Gosh I have the exact opposite reaction. His speech was entitled and narcissistic. Vessel of love? I don’t think so. 

[Amethyst]

I read something this morning about how Jada Smith is getting lost in all of this. Will Smith going to save the day - sort of misogynistic. Did she want him to do that? I heard NPR describe the incident as “Chris Rock made a comment about Will Smith’s wife” - you have to keep listening or reading to find out it was about her alopecia. 
 

My dd21 just discovered her first patch 6 days ago, so we’re all very worried for her. At first, my reaction to Will Smith was like, I can totally understand! Had she just been crying to him a few hours before about having to go out in public with no hair? And then this jerk gets up there and says such an ignorant and mean joke! 

But after my initial reaction, of course he shouldn’t have hit someone. Of course his words might have been a more powerful advocate for people with alopecia. Violence is rarely the answer. (And I can’t stand mean comedians!)

Edited March 28, 2022 by Amethyst

[Jean in Newcastle]

There are plenty of witnesses if Chris Rock wants to press charges for assault. Just saying. 
 

Chris Rock’s joke was out of line. Like they often are. And this isn’t the first time the two men have fought over something Chris Rock has said about Jada. So he definitely needed to be taken down a peg. But not assaulted. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I don’t think culture really weighs in on this—it was likely an impulsive act and not something Will Smith thought about beforehand at all—but the whole “men defending their women even with violence” still exists.  We have one not quite bar not quite hangout establishment in the city I work.  We go there once or twice a month for a serious assault, usually a stabbing. It almost always turns out someone was talking smack about someone else’s woman and it turns into an assault.  So someone goes to the hospital and someone goes to jail.  But the people who frequent that place take defending their women very seriously, even if they go to prison.  I don’t understand it, but then—a year or two ago we had an issue with DD being bullied on the school bus. we told DD and DS just to ignore the bully and we’d deal with it through the school. My neighbor, however, instructed his son, same age as DD, to protect her on the school bus from this bully, even if it meant punching the kid.  We were shocked by this, but chalked it up to the fact that the dad is from the Caribbean and it was a cultural difference.  But there are definitely still people teaching their sons that it’s okay and maybe even desirable to defend women with violence. It is something that we’ve had to discuss with our children a couple of times.

(In my family, though, it’s DD that’s most likely to throw a punch.  She hasn’t ever hit anyone else, but if any of my kids is going to, it’s not my boys, who are both very much kind and loving to all, much like their dad. I am fascinated by cultural differences though.)

Edited March 28, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[sassenach]

46 minutes ago, Soror said:

My question was did Chris Rock know that she had alopecia? If so, then yes, horribly bad taste and crossing the line.

There’s no way to know. I had no idea until last night. 

[wintermom]

Both of these men are 'professionals' and know full well that they are in the public eye. One man was doing his job by making jokes, and the precedent was set years (more like decades) ago that actors would be the target for jokes at this event (and others like it). The other man was a bit of an idiot, tbh. Yup, the joke was in poor taste for a lot of people, as are a million other jokes. That is Rock's job, though, and that's what he was paid to do. What Smith's job is at that point in time, is to be a professional and deal with his own emotions and behaviour, just like he does in any other professional situation.

Edited March 28, 2022 by wintermom

[Amethyst]

59 minutes ago, Soror said:

My question was did Chris Rock know that she had alopecia? If so, then yes, horribly bad taste and crossing the line.

This is why it is so important for us to be kind to one another, and to teach our children kindness. Someone looks weird? Stop. Think. Maybe they’re hurting inside. Even if they look like they’re rocking their look. Just be kind to one another. 

[Corraleno]

I think Will Smith was overcompensating for the fact that he had laughed out loud at the joke before he realized that Jada was upset. So to me it looked less like a spontaneous expression of anger and more like a contrived performance to cover his ass with Jada for laughing at the joke to begin with. Not that assaulting someone in response to an insult is ever okay, even if it's genuine and spontaneous. But the fact that it seemed so artificial made it even worse IMO.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

2 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I think Will Smith was overcompensating for the fact that he had laughed out loud at the joke before he realized that Jada was upset. So to me it looked less like a spontaneous expression of anger and more like a contrived performance to cover his ass with Jada for laughing at the joke to begin with. Not that assaulting someone in response to an insult is ever okay, even if it's genuine and spontaneous. But the fact that it seemed so artificial made it even worse IMO.

I really thought it was scripted when I saw it and to be honest, I’m still not entirely certain it wasn’t, but we’ll never know.

[Janeway]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

…as a wife who is married to a very kind and mild man who I sometimes wish would stand up for me a little more…it was satisfying.  Joking about her well known struggle with alopecia crossed some serious lines for me and was clearly hurtful.

 

I feel the same way.

[teachermom2834]

I have three boys and have always taught them to walk away from words. Just walk away. They are just words.  My boys are not wimps. They were high school/college athletes, popular as teens and always had girlfriends. They are now young adults and successfully navigating the business and professional world. 

Yet, we have definitely had situations where people thought they were not defending their own/their female companion/their family honor by walking away. I have been accused of raising them to be soft or weak because they walk away.

We were at a 5 yo tee ball game one time when a fist fight broke out between two dads. It got very bad with one man on top of the other beating him. After it was all over I was in utter shock. The prevailing opinion was “well the guy said something about his wife.” As though that was what was supposed to happen. Beating someone to a pulp in front of five year olds is really the only option there. 
 

So I am not on Will Smith’s side here. And I continue to encourage my people to walk away until the first punch is thrown. They are just words. I don’t want anyone going to jail or the hospital defending my honor. No thank you. Let’s just get in the car and go home. But I do think I’m in the minority. As I am in many things. 

[Soror]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

She’s been very public about it since 2018.  I thought it was fairly common knowledge that she has a medical condition.

I've not heard anything about it so  I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. (ETA- To be clear still one should be very careful making jokes about such things. But I find many jokes to be in bad taste.)

Edited March 28, 2022 by Soror

[SKL]

I don't watch awards shows, and I just saw a very short bit of video posted by the Wall Street Journal.

I think it was appropriate for WS to do something publicly and immediately.  I kinda don't view the slap as violence the way a punch would be.  I am not sure what would have been a better way to say what needed to be said in the moment.

I think Chris Rock owes a public apology if he hasn't already made one.

I like CR as a comedian, but he also needs to remember he's a human and so are the butts of his jokes.  Learn something from this, CR, please.

(PS I am not sure he knew she has a medical condition.  That said, there really was nothing funny about his joke even if she didn't have one.)

Edited March 28, 2022 by SKL

[Catwoman]

I’m sorry, but a big part of the Oscars is that the celebrities are joked about — and often not in kind ways — yet as far as I know, no one has ever walked up on stage and hit anyone. 

I think Will Smith came across as an arrogant, entitled jerk. I didn’t know his wife had alopecia, so maybe Chris Rock didn’t know it either, but even if he did, the way to address that with him was not with violence. 

I can’t believe people are excusing (and even condoning!) that kind of behavior. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Catwoman
Typo

[Pawz4me]

I don't keep up with celebrities and have little idea of who these people are. But as an avid news consumer I have unfortunately been subjected to the whole ridiculously silly thing everywhere this morning.

I'm truly surprised anyone thinks what happened was okay or justified.

Don't like what somebody says? Smack 'em upside the head. And get cheered for it. No. Just . . no.

I think there's little hope left for us.

(And not to bring politics into the thread, but it might be instructive to look up Steve Schmidt's tweets about this, and how what happened last night relates to what's been happening politically for the past few years. Nobody should be cheered for physically assaulting someone, whether that person is wearing a tuxedo or a red hat or whatever.)

Edited March 28, 2022 by Pawz4me
fix tenses

[teachermom2834]

Will Smith could have not laughed. He could have mouthed “No” or “Shut the F up” when the camera panned on him. Or given a death stare to show his disapproval. He’s an actor. Apparently the best one this year. I’m sure he can convey his disapproval. He could have stood up and taken Jada by the hand and walked out. He didn’t need to just sit and laugh and pretend it was ok and he didn’t need to stand up and walk on stage and smack CR. Those were not the only options.

[JustEm]

12 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I really thought it was scripted when I saw it and to be honest, I’m still not entirely certain it wasn’t, but we’ll never know.

I don't know the anger in Will's voice when he says 'keep my wife's name out of your f***ing mouth' seems genuine. Especially, from the stark difference from when he was laughing at the joke at first. If it were scripted Will would not have laughed at first, he's too good of an actor.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, catz said:

Sorry, I don't think words justify violence.  These people have the biggest platform available to them to respond appropriately and I would have been 100% behind them in doing so.  It's not shocking to me it happened.  It's more shocking to me that everyone thinks it is just fine.  I would be livid with any male in my life throwing up violence as a response to someone being an AH verbally.

 

Honestly, even in the most alpha male scenario, in my head anyway, the guy SAYS something like, 'you need to apologize to my wife" or whatever, then hits him IF he doesn't back down and apologize. 

This wasn't defending his wife, it was a temper tantrum. It was bad behavior (so was Chris Rock), and there is nothing okay about it. But, Will Smith is a man child so a temper tantrum is about right. 

[Fritz]

The joke was likely scripted and if the academy knew of the diagnosis they should have cut the joke. I don't follow the Hollywood set so I did not know about her diagnosis. Maybe Chris Rock didn't either. In any case, Will Smith's reaction was inappropriate.

[JustEm]

I think the smack was unacceptable. Violence is never the answer to a verbal insult. He could have just as easily ranted angrily from his seat like he did after the hit. 

[Kassia]

I don't understand why Will Smith wasn't removed from the ceremony after he got up and assaulted someone.

[Katy]

On the one hand, everyone seemed to know who was going to win weeks in advance this time.  And they were going to do whatever it took to up ratings.  This stunt should do it.

If CR didn't know the joke would be fine.  She looked gorgeous. She is an actress.  It could very well have been for a role.

I have a difficult time believing the same man who started a public conversation about Jada cheating on him and claiming he never cheated on her has a deep value of protecting his family. Will Smith seems like an emotional wreck.  But then again maybe most actors are.

I thought Amy's joke at the beginning about women being ignored and finally there was a movie focusing on the FATHER of two successful women was on point. I wish that got more news coverage.

[JustEm]

1 minute ago, Kassia said:

I don't understand why Will Smith wasn't removed from the ceremony after he got up and assaulted someone.

I imagine because they knew he was winning the Oscar so needed to let it blow over so they would still have him there to receive his Oscar. 

[BlsdMama]

1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

I read something this morning about how Jada Smith is getting lost in all of this. Will Smith going to save the day - sort of misogynistic. Did she want him to do that? I heard NPR describe the incident as “Chris Rock made a comment about Will Smith’s wife” - you have to keep listening or reading to find out it was about her alopecia. 

Interesting because the anti-Will stuff I’m seeing is that he was “emasculated” by looking to her for “permission” before reacting so he’s being cut down. 
My husband looks to me before reacting when something profound touches me. He doesn’t want to draw attention I don’t want. 
Jada isn’t exactly a wallflower. But disease destroys your sense of identity - how you identified yourself. I *need* people to advocate for me. 
 

Now, could he have been effective by using his speech to eloquently make a rebuttal to crock’s comments. Sure. But families hit by disease - it’s such a raw, open wound. And how do you process the “joke” made in front of millions of people at your loved one’s expense?! AND control your instinct/emotion? Ya’all are better people than me. I’ll just own it. I thought Will Smith was remarkably self controlled. Chris Rock, who I think is a complete a$$, makes that joke about my child and her disease, I guarantee I’d have publicly lost my mind. And I think that “paternal/maternal” sense of protection exists when a husband moves from a place of equality into a place of protection because the wife is facing something that leaves her defenseless, like disease. 

[SKL]

I did wonder why WS laughed at the joke at first.  I thought maybe it was a badly edited video, or maybe he was just programmed to laugh no matter what CR said, until he realized the effect on his wife.

If he in fact laughed at the joke and his wife saw that, he probably felt like he needed to do damage control.  I don't know.  It did look like his reaction wasn't well thought out at all. 

But, in a perfect world where WS was the best husband and male specimen in the universe, what should he have done in the moment?  I don't think he should have let it go.

[SKL]

I also don't think it's misogynistic for a husband to stand up for his wife.

[livetoread]

I thought it was all gross and still do. I haven't watched the Oscars in years (don't care) and none of this makes it any more likely for me to do so. I'm as left as they come and today I completely and fully understand some of the right's disgust with preening, hypocritical, narcissistic, entitled, self-congratulatory Hollywood. 

There is always an excuse for violence if you want to believe it. You know who else is under enormous stress and pressure? Men who have work pressures and home demands and insecurities and who hit their wives. Not okay. I'm disgusted with all of it and utterly disgusted that Smith was allowed to stay in the building and accept his award. You can make all the lip service you want to love and peace, blah, blah, blah, but when violence erupts in your midst, you turn your back, wring your hands some,  and then applaud the perpetrator as he wins an award a few minutes later? Just no. So, so hypocritical.

I don't expect Chris Rock to press charges because he's been humiliated already and won't want to seem even weaker. So Smith will get away with it because when you are rich and powerful... Disgusting.

[gardenmom5]

Chris Rock has made jokes about Jada Pinkett-Smith, at the Oscars, since at least 2016.  This goes back a long way.

If she just had a super short haircut, that would be one thing - but she has alopecia. In that case, I consider hair jokes out of line.  (or for anything medical related.)

reportedly - Chris Rock did not vet the joke with the Academy beforehand. 

[Carrie12345]

I’m torn in all sorts of directions, even as someone who doesn’t particularly like any of the individuals involved (though I think all 3 are talented.)
Yes, we are all supposed to be above physical violence.
I do think a LOT of us can be provoked to bypass that rule.  There is a giant spectrum spanning a nasty comment on the playground, a hugely broadcasted deep, personal insult (and WS’s initial faux pas), a person trying to mug someone, and invading soldiers trying to take over your country.  Slapping a Russian soldier might seem kind of lame while bludgeoning a kid at recess would generally be revolting.  Is any of it truly okay? No.
But…

I think both men got off easy, and the real victim gets twice the suffering.
If I were an official juror in an identical case, I’d stick to the law though.

[livetoread]

So very many jokes done at these things are in poor taste. It's a big reason I don't watch. I get uncomfortable when jokes are made at other's expense. So yeah, that's just the way it works, and I don't think what Chris Rock said was any worse than a lot of things I've heard. It certainly didn't merit violence. Or maybe I should say if that did, then any celebrity get together with emcees would turn into a free for all brawl.

[gstharr]

Rock's joke was funny. The audience , including Will,  laughed when first hearing it.  If Will considered it crossing the line, then both Will and Jada should have slapped Regina Hall's  joke about their marital relationship.  The irony for me is that Will got started  and rich by making obnoxious and insensitive jokes about Uncle Phil and cousin Carlton appearance every episode of Fresh Prince.    BTW, where was security?  Will should have never been allowed to reach the stage.  Then allowed to just sit there.  That's entitlement.

[Junie]

Was Chris Rock's joke inappropriate.  Yep.  But Chris Rock is often inappropriate.  It's what he's paid to do.

Was Will Smith's reaction inappropriate.  Yep.  I think that there were a thousand ways he could have handled this better.  In the end, what he accomplished was to ruin his own Oscars win.  Unfortunately, he also spoiled the night for many others by becoming The Headline.

I will say that I think Chris Rock handled the situation well.  Including the fact that he is not pressing charges.

[Pam in CT]

re Agency, and what's the focus of the story

1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

Jada Smith is getting lost in all of this

The story last night, and the story today, is neither about Jada Smith nor her medical condition.

 

Just how one manchild responded to another manchild.

 

Kinda like

18 minutes ago, Katy said:

..Amy's joke at the beginning about women being ignored and finally there was a movie focusing on the FATHER of two successful women ...

The *very movie* that was the reason Smith stayed around after The Incident, and also the reason that he was not asked to leave after The Incident, because the show must go on.

[JustEm]

15 minutes ago, SKL said:

I did wonder why WS laughed at the joke at first.  I thought maybe it was a badly edited video, or maybe he was just programmed to laugh no matter what CR said, until he realized the effect on his wife.

If he in fact laughed at the joke and his wife saw that, he probably felt like he needed to do damage control.  I don't know.  It did look like his reaction wasn't well thought out at all. 

But, in a perfect world where WS was the best husband and male specimen in the universe, what should he have done in the moment?  I don't think he should have let it go.

He could have just ranted about it like he did. Or addressed it during his acceptance speech he knew he was going to make.

[BlsdMama]

5 minutes ago, gstharr said:

Rock's joke was funny. The audience , including Will,  laughed when first hearing it.  If Will considered it crossing the line, then both Will and Jada should have slapped Regina Hall's  joke about their marital relationship.  The irony for me is that Will got started  and rich by making obnoxious and insensitive jokes about Uncle Phil and cousin Carlton appearance every episode of Fresh Prince.    BTW, where was security?  Will should have never been allowed to reach the stage.  Then allowed to just sit there.  That's entitlement.

It was funny? You’re going to stand by that?

 

Huh. Interesting. 

[gardenmom5]

34 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I’m sorry, but a big part of the Oscars is that the celebrities are joked about — and often not in kind ways — yet as far as I know, no one has ever walked up on stage and hit anyone. 

I think Will Smith came across as an arrogant, entitled jerk. I didn’t know his wife had alopecia, so maybe Chris Rock didn’t know it either, but even if he did, the way to address that with him was not with violence. 

I can’t believe people are excusing (and even condoning!) that kind of behavior. 

She's reportedly been public about it since 2018.  Hollywood tends to know what's going on - so even if those outside didn't know, those inside probably do.

CR started joking about JPS in 2016.  This joke was not vetted by the Academy.

Neither of them are innocent.

[itsheresomewhere]

38 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I don't understand why Will Smith wasn't removed from the ceremony after he got up and assaulted someone.

Same reason that people are not standing up to Kayne West (Ye). And those few who do are mocked for it. 

[livetoread]

I'd put good money down that Will Smith is going to be the focus of many a comedian's joke now, and if we think Rock's was mean - they are going to be merciless. Hollywood might forgive and forget, but comedians won't.

 

[Catwoman]

13 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

She's reportedly been public about it since 2018.  Hollywood tends to know what's going on - so even if those outside didn't know, those inside probably do.

CR started joking about JPS in 2016.  This joke was not vetted by the Academy.

Neither of them are innocent.

Even if Chris Rock knew about it, the proper response was not for Will Smith to make a scene and resort to violence.

[Catwoman]

26 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

It was funny? You’re going to stand by that?

 

Huh. Interesting. 

To anyone who didn’t know that Will Smith’s wife has a medical condition, there was nothing wrong with the joke. Demi Moore was the butt of constant jokes for her GI Jane crew cut.

Also, Jada Smith appears to be embracing her hair loss by not wearing wigs, so even if he knew about it, maybe Chris Rock didn’t even realize that she was sensitive about her condition.

But in the end, even if Chris Rock knew all about her problem and told the joke knowing full well that it would upset her, Will Smith had no right to go up on stage and hit him. It was assault, pure and simple. We don’t teach our kids to haul off and hit anyone who insults them, so why should a 50-something-year-old man get a free pass to do that?

Edited March 28, 2022 by Catwoman
Typo, as usual

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

Also, Jada Smith appears to be embracing her hair loss by not wearing wigs, so even if he knew about it, maybe Chris Rock didn’t even realize that she was sensitive about her condition.

This. Also, wasn’t it CR who produced some sort of documentary about black girls’ hair?  It would have been ages ago, I think Oprah did a segment on it. He knows it can be a sensitive topic because it was sensitive for his own daughter. I bet he legit thought it was for a role or a feminist stance. 

[Catwoman]

52 minutes ago, SKL said:

I also don't think it's misogynistic for a husband to stand up for his wife.

A man doesn’t have to resort to violence in order to stand up for his wife.