New Covid medicine reduces hospitalizations and death by almost half among unvaccinated!

[chiguirre]

This is such excellent news. They stopped their trial early because of the overwhelmingly positive results. Merck will license generic manufacturers in poorer countries to produce it at affordable prices. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/10/01/pill-to-treat-covid/

 

 

Quote

 

Merck announced Friday that an experimental pill it developed to treat covid-19 reduced the risk of hospitalization and death by nearly half in a clinical trial.

 

An independent board of experts monitoring the trial recommended the study be stopped early because of the positive results, a significant and telling step in a pharmaceutical study.

Merck and partner Ridgeback Biotherapeutics said in a news release they would apply for emergency use authorization for the drug, molnupiravir, in the United States as soon as possible. It would be the first antiviral pill for covid-19.

 

ETA: There is a free access article at CNBC.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/01/merck-to-seek-emergency-authorization-for-oral-covid-19-treatment.html

Edited October 1, 2021 by chiguirre

[MEmama]

I wonder if antivaxxers will take it, given that it’s new and “untested” and authorized for emergency use only. You know, the very reasons they give for not getting vaccinated in the first place? 
 

I realize that’s a bit snarky, but also not really. Their inconsistencies are staggering and deserve to be called out. That said, this is truly excellent news for those who don’t have the vaccine available yet or can’t get vaccinated for real medical reasons, and for those suffering from breakthrough cases. 
 

[Ausmumof3]

Awesome news.  Hope the data stands up to scrutiny - this would be amazing.

[CTVKath]

This is a wonderful piece of news to read this morning!!!!!!! I hope the new drug really works as well as the initial studies say it works and I am sooooo glad it's a pill and not an IV!!!!!!!!

[chiguirre]

2 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Awesome news.  Hope the data stands up to scrutiny - this would be amazing.

I found a free article that explains the reason to halt the trial.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/01/merck-to-seek-emergency-authorization-for-oral-covid-19-treatment.html

 

It was an independent monitoring committee in consultation with the US FDA that decided that new recruitment into a control group would be unethical since Molnupiravir was so effective. So the data has passed an initial assessment by independent bodies already.

 

[Syllieann]

This is exciting.  Idk if anti-vaxxers will take it, but I've already seen claims that it's actually ivermectin that they have to buy from big pharma.

[Dmmetler]

I wonder if they've tested it against breaktrhough cases. With an antiviral plus vaccination for all age groups, we could really get COVID to the level the flu is, which wouldbe amazing!

[KSera]

2 hours ago, MEmama said:

and for those suffering from breakthrough cases. 
 

I hope they will prescribe it for people with breakthrough cases as well. It seems unfair to me that people with breakthrough cases are having a hard time getting monoclonal antibodies because they are largely being reserved for those who are unvaccinated. That just doesn’t seem right.

[MEmama]

16 minutes ago, KSera said:

I hope they will prescribe it for people with breakthrough cases as well. It seems unfair to me that people with breakthrough cases are having a hard time getting monoclonal antibodies because they are largely being reserved for those who are unvaccinated. That just doesn’t seem right.

Wow, I hadn’t heard this. Do you know why? I agree, not right at all, on several levels.

[KSera]

9 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Wow, I hadn’t heard this. Do you know why? I agree, not right at all, on several levels.

I think because unvaccinated people are so much more likely to die, and supplies are still limited, so they are saving it for those people. It’s not only about supply of the antibodies themselves, but the resources to administer it, since it has to be given by infusion. I would hope that at least elderly or otherwise at high risk vaccinated people would be given it, but I don’t know. 
 

article on Tennessee’s policy to only give to the unvaccinated: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tennessee-limiting-monoclonal-antibody-treatment-unvaccinated-residents-n1279740

Edited October 1, 2021 by KSera

[ScoutTN]

2 hours ago, Syllieann said:

This is exciting.  Idk if anti-vaxxers will take it, but I've already seen claims that it's actually ivermectin that they have to buy from big pharma.

I heard this yesterday. 🙄🙄🙄

Edited October 1, 2021 by ScoutTN

[happi duck]

If they withhold treatment from those with breakthrough cases then antivaxxers have more reason not to vax.  "I'll just overload the hospital and get treated if I get the 'rona."  Ugh!

We need layers...as many as possible get vaccinated... as many as possible mask...etc.  Then treat the cases that slip through!

[KSera]

Just now, happi duck said:

If they withhold treatment from those with breakthrough cases then antivaxxers have more reason not to vax.  "I'll just overload the hospital and get treated if I get the 'rona."  Ugh!

We need layers...as many as possible get vaccinated... as many as possible mask...etc.  Then treat the cases that slip through!

Exactly. I don’t know how that’s good public health policy at all. I understand it from the perspective of trying to save the lives of people who have put them self in a position where they are much more likely to die, though. 
 

i’m still trying to understand why people who refused to follow doctor‘s advice and get vaccinated and accuse them of lying and only recommending things because of the money, etc., why do those people all then flock to the hospitals and want those very same doctors to save them when they eventually get sick? It’s so inconsistent. And so incredibly frustrating given how many stories I see every day of people who couldn’t get the care they or their family members badly needed for other conditions, because the beds were all full of unvaccinated Covid patients.

Also, as an aside, am I the only one who finds the term “the ‘rona” grating 😳? Almost always said by someone dismissing the seriousness of the disease. (that’s not directed at you, happi duck, I took your use to mean it as imitation of the same way that I hear it from others—pretty much only online. No one I know calls it that.)

[MEmama]

8 minutes ago, happi duck said:

If they withhold treatment from those with breakthrough cases then antivaxxers have more reason not to vax.  "I'll just overload the hospital and get treated if I get the 'rona."  Ugh!

We need layers...as many as possible get vaccinated... as many as possible mask...etc.  Then treat the cases that slip through!

Yeah, the policy seems backward. 😞 

[Bootsie]

I was just watching some news reports on this.  The medication is more effective if it is given early on.   It is hopefuly that it makes the infected person less contagious and that it will also be effective against new variants when they arise because it doesn't depend on the spike protein (I didn't understand any of the science being discussed after that).  It is also easy to manufacture and distribute.  So, this sounds like a lot of good news.

[happi duck]

6 minutes ago, KSera said:

Exactly. I don’t know how that’s good public health policy at all. I understand it from the perspective of trying to save the lives of people who have put them self in a position where they are much more likely to die, though. 
 

i’m still trying to understand why people who refused to follow doctor‘s advice and get vaccinated and accuse them of lying and only recommending things because of the money, etc., why do those people all then flock to the hospitals and want those very same doctors to save them when they eventually get sick? It’s so inconsistent. And so incredibly frustrating given how many stories I see every day of people who couldn’t get the care they or their family members badly needed for other conditions, because the beds were all full of unvaccinated Covid patients.

Also, as an aside, am I the only one who finds the term “the ‘rona” grating 😳? Almost always said by someone dismissing the seriousness of the disease. (that’s not directed at you, happi duck, I took your use to mean it as imitation of the same way that I hear it from others—pretty much only online. No one I know calls it that.)

Not being able to get proper care for something else really scares me.  It's truly terrible.

I loathe the use "the 'rona". (and was being snarky 😉 ) I agree, so very dismissive.

[TechWife]

This is very promising & exciting. We do need to manage our expectations though.  There is a bit of wait time ahead.  

According to Stat News they are only getting ready to apply for an EUA. 

“If approved, molnupiravir could have a dramatic impact on efforts to fight the pandemic. Merck and Ridgeback said they would seek an emergency use authorization from the Food and Drug Administration ‘as soon as possible’ and would submit it to regulatory agencies worldwide.” 
 

Also important- 

“The data from the study were made public in a press release and have not yet been peer-reviewed.”

https://www.statnews.com/2021/10/01/mercks-antiviral-pill-reduces-hospitalization-of-covid-patients-a-possible-game-changer-for-treatment/

[Dmmetler]

59 minutes ago, KSera said:

I hope they will prescribe it for people with breakthrough cases as well. It seems unfair to me that people with breakthrough cases are having a hard time getting monoclonal antibodies because they are largely being reserved for those who are unvaccinated. That just doesn’t seem right.

My state is one that is doing this. The rationale is that breakthrough cases are so much less likely to become severe that it reduces the demand on hospitals more to give that MAB dose to someone who isn't vaccinated. But especially for high risk vaccinated adults, it just feels mean.

[Acadie]

3 hours ago, Syllieann said:

This is exciting.  Idk if anti-vaxxers will take it, but I've already seen claims that it's actually ivermectin that they have to buy from big pharma.

Holy smokes!

The mental contortions people go through so that they don't need to question their beliefs never cease to amaze me. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

4 hours ago, Syllieann said:

This is exciting.  Idk if anti-vaxxers will take it, but I've already seen claims that it's actually ivermectin that they have to buy from big pharma.

That's stupid on so many levels.

1.  Don't they know that Merck is the manufacturer of Ivermectin for humans?  They are already buying from Big Pharma if they get it. 

2.  Don't they know that drug companies have to post what's in their meds?  They can't just slip another name on Ivermectin without telling anyone. . .

[wathe]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

This is very promising & exciting. We do need to manage our expectations though.  There is a bit of wait time ahead.  

According to Stat News they are only getting ready to apply for an EUA. 

“If approved, molnupiravir could have a dramatic impact on efforts to fight the pandemic. Merck and Ridgeback said they would seek an emergency use authorization from the Food and Drug Administration ‘as soon as possible’ and would submit it to regulatory agencies worldwide.” 
 

Also important- 

“The data from the study were made public in a press release and have not yet been peer-reviewed.”

https://www.statnews.com/2021/10/01/mercks-antiviral-pill-reduces-hospitalization-of-covid-patients-a-possible-game-changer-for-treatment/

Here's the press release from Merck, for those interested

[Jean in Newcastle]

Treating sicker patients first is the "prime directive" of triage.  (Unless they switch to emergency mode where it is the most likely to survive and not just the sickest patients).  I see how galling it is to have patients who have rejected the vaccine come in especially when there is rationed care, but I would not throw out the rules of triage because of it. 

The fact is that at some point, for some of these patients, the sickest are not going to be the most likely to survive in a rationed care setting and so are more likely to die not only from the disease but the lack of extreme life-saving measures. 

My own response to this news is a wait and see approach.  Not out of skepticism of the science.  But because it's going to take awhile for the meds to be available in a hospital setting.  It's going to take awhile for areas of hospital overwhelm to be able to treat everyone who needs it.  And it still requires you to catch the illness within a certain time frame (before you are severely ill) in order for it to be most effective.  So I'm going to patiently mask, get a booster and am going to be careful to monitor my social exposure even with the masks and vaccines. 

[rebcoola]

5 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

That's stupid on so many levels.

1.  Don't they know that Merck is the manufacturer of Ivermectin for humans?  They are already buying from Big Pharma if they get it. 

2.  Don't they know that drug companies have to post what's in their meds?  They can't just slip another name on Ivermectin without telling anyone. . .

Yes they know they are the makers of Ivermectin that's just adding fuel to fire for them.   

They seem to think it is incredibly common for drug companies to lie and the government to know but be paid off.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2021 by rebcoola

[Dmmetler]

8 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Treating sicker patients first is the "prime directive" of triage.  (Unless they switch to emergency mode where it is the most likely to survive and not just the sickest patients).  I see how galling it is to have patients who have rejected the vaccine come in especially when there is rationed care, but I would not throw out the rules of triage because of it. 

The fact is that at some point, for some of these patients, the sickest are not going to be the most likely to survive in a rationed care setting and so are more likely to die not only from the disease but the lack of extreme life-saving measures. 

My own response to this news is a wait and see approach.  Not out of skepticism of the science.  But because it's going to take awhile for the meds to be available in a hospital setting.  It's going to take awhile for areas of hospital overwhelm to be able to treat everyone who needs it.  And it still requires you to catch the illness within a certain time frame (before you are severely ill) in order for it to be most effective.  So I'm going to patiently mask, get a booster and am going to be careful to monitor my social exposure even with the masks and vaccines. 

The problem in TN with MABs is that the policy isn't "save monoclonals for those likely to be the sickest" but to prioritize non-vaccinated over vaccinated even if they are high risk. It definitely is not playing well, and in a state where vaccination rates aren't great, is not encouraging people to get vaccinated. 

 

Meanwhile, I got my booster dose and will be continuing to mask and to avoid group settings wherever possible. 

[Ailaena]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

i’m still trying to understand why people who refused to follow doctor‘s advice and get vaccinated and accuse them of lying and only recommending things because of the money, etc., why do those people all then flock to the hospitals and want those very same doctors to save them when they eventually get sick? 

Because it’s all fun and games until you’re actually, literally facing your death.  

[mathnerd]

2 hours ago, KSera said:

i’m still trying to understand why people who refused to follow doctor‘s advice and get vaccinated and accuse them of lying and only recommending things because of the money, etc., why do those people all then flock to the hospitals and want those very same doctors to save them when they eventually get sick? It’s so inconsistent.

a lot of unvaccinated folks end up asking for and getting the monoclonal antibody treatment - if only we could point out that this treatment is under EUA while the Pfizer vaccine is approved, MAB treatment used embryonic cells in its development process which many of the antivaxxers oppose etc etc.

Many of them are not anti-technology at all considering that they take an anti-microchip, anti-5G, anti-BillGates stance: a lot of them end up using the internet to host gofundme pages to collect money for their covid stricken/dead unvaccinated family members making use of cloud technology, social media, online transactions etc etc which are all high tech. This is the part I find grating.

As for the OP, Pfizer is also testing a pill to treat people who have been exposed to coronavirus and in early stages of infection:

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/pfizers-covid-pill-could-be-game-changer-boston-doctor-says/2503689/ 

[WildflowerMom]

I'm grateful and I hope they can get this in hospitals soon.   Dh is unvaxxed at this point (not anti-vax, just very hesitant) and I'm praying he doesn't get covid again before he does get vaxxed.   Hopefully, this will be another miracle drug (along with the vax) in tamping down this stupid virus. 

[ScoutTN]

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

My state is one that is doing this. The rationale is that breakthrough cases are so much less likely to become severe that it reduces the demand on hospitals more to give that MAB dose to someone who isn't vaccinated. But especially for high risk vaccinated adults, it just feels mean.

My doc told me to call him if I get covid and he will find a way get me the MAB. 

[kbutton]

5 hours ago, KSera said:

i’m still trying to understand why people who refused to follow doctor‘s advice and get vaccinated and accuse them of lying and only recommending things because of the money, etc., why do those people all then flock to the hospitals and want those very same doctors to save them when they eventually get sick? It’s so inconsistent. 

The treatments they want are also available only through a doctor--IV doses of vitamin C (very high doses), D, and ivermectin. 

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, KSera said:

 

Also, as an aside, am I the only one who finds the term “the ‘rona” grating 😳? Almost always said by someone dismissing the seriousness of the disease. (that’s not directed at you, happi duck, I took your use to mean it as imitation of the same way that I hear it from others—pretty much only online. No one I know calls it that.)

We use it sometimes in my family  - but in a gallows humor way. Like, it's laugh or cry sometimes, so we choose laughter. My mom and I both come from medical backgrounds where inappropriate gallows human is not uncommon, and DH has a dark sense of humor as does DS22...so it is par for the course here. 

I'm positive DS22 called it "the 'Rona" when he had it. But more in a mocking way. 

[bookbard]

Great news, small sample size, hopefully they replicate it with larger numbers. If this works, it is wonderful news for really pulling the teeth out of covid and getting life back to normal. Next step, the flu plus covid vaccine each year, and life going on so we can buckle down and focus on climate adaptation. 

[lynn]

Some choose vaccine to help lesson covid  and some will take meds to help their covid infection.  Sounds pretty close to a win, win situation.  I agree some still may not want it.  Cant please everyone.

[Corraleno]

Fox News host calls it a scam (of course):

[Ausmumof3]

It sounds like it’s only been tested in unvaxed so far.

[Farrar]

It's clearly not about something being "new" or "untested" for the no vax crowd because they have been going at the Regeneron like mad. That's a way newer technology that's way less tested overall compared to the vaccine technology.

But then they're targeting this too? I do not understand these folks. It's so random what they want to hate and what they decide is life saving amazingness. Really, if you wanted them to take it, WaPo shouldn't have written about it, actual medical doctors shouldn't have published the results of the study. They have to feel like they're getting special, secret, word of mouth, just for them treatment in order to go for it.

[Tanaqui]

WHY are they LIKE this!?

[Fritz]

4 hours ago, kbutton said:

The treatments they want are also available only through a doctor--IV doses of vitamin C (very high doses), D, and ivermectin. 

I am happy to see this new drug. Also as it happens, India had much success treating Covid-19 with home kits given to newly diagnosed patients that included Ivermectin. Dr. John Campbell recently spoke about this on youtube. Seems like a better approach than has largely been implemented here with the go home until you can't breathe then get to the ED.

 

[KSera]

2 hours ago, lynn said:

Some choose vaccine to help lesson covid  and some will take meds to help their covid infection.  Sounds pretty close to a win, win situation.  

Well, except choosing to rely on meds if/when one gets Covid while unvaccinated is to HUGELY increase the risk that one will be hospitalized and/or die. I think there are people under the mistaken impression that doctors will be able to save them if they get a bad case. Some will be saved, but from the over 700,000 dead of Covid in the US so far, clearly a lot won’t. (Did you know 3,800 people in their 40s died of Covid in the US in just the one month of August alone?)

[KSera]

4 minutes ago, Fritz said:

I am happy to see this new drug. Also as it happens, India had much success treating Covid-19 with home kits given to newly diagnosed patients that included Ivermectin. Dr. John Campbell recently spoke about this on youtube. Seems like a better approach than has largely been implemented here with the go home until you can't breathe then get to the ED.

 

If you listen to doctors working Covid wards right now, they have a lot of patients in their ICUs who were home taking ivermectin before they finally came in, deathly ill. 

[Fritz]

30 minutes ago, KSera said:

If you listen to doctors working Covid wards right now, they have a lot of patients in their ICUs who were home taking ivermectin before they finally came in, deathly ill. 

At what dosage? If it had been correctly prescribed rather than them resorting to guessing at dosage they might have had a better outcome as evidenced by the India home kits discussed. 

[Faith-manor]

36 minutes ago, KSera said:

If you listen to doctors working Covid wards right now, they have a lot of patients in their ICUs who were home taking ivermectin before they finally came in, deathly ill. 

Our DWB friend says this is very true. He is back in the states helping in a state with a big surge, and is just situated by the number of people coming on death's door who were home chugging down Ivermectin from TSC and other supply places. He is so discouraged!

 

[WildflowerMom]

This is off topic and probably just because I'm a little depressed and pissy tonight, but seeing so many countries and doctors and scientists work so well together for the good of the world, really makes me sad they can't do this for type one diabetics (and other diseases), too.  ☹️  
don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly grateful for anything that helps fight covid, but I'd love to see the same motivation for eradicating other diseases.   

[Ausmumof3]

12 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

This is off topic and probably just because I'm a little depressed and pissy tonight, but seeing so many countries and doctors and scientists work so well together for the good of the world, really makes me sad they can't do this for type one diabetics (and other diseases), too.  ☹️  
don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly grateful for anything that helps fight covid, but I'd love to see the same motivation for eradicating other diseases.   

Not only that but a lot of resources that would typically be focussed on other disease have had to be diverted to Covid research meaning other research is set back a couple of years. On the other hand Covid research has certainly improved general understanding of viruses and immunity I guess.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[KSera]

3 hours ago, Fritz said:

At what dosage? If it had been correctly prescribed rather than them resorting to guessing at dosage they might have had a better outcome as evidenced by the India home kits discussed. 

Well, if we want to talk about logic and evidence, then had they gotten the well tested vaccine rather than staying home taking a drug off label for a purpose that it has not yet shown strong evidence of therapeutic benefit for, that would have been overwhelmingly likely to give them the better outcome of not needing any treatment at all.

[ktgrok]

13 hours ago, lynn said:

Some choose vaccine to help lesson covid  and some will take meds to help their covid infection.  Sounds pretty close to a win, win situation.  I agree some still may not want it.  Cant please everyone.

The vaccine is way more effective than this drug though. Ideally we'd be vaccinating everyone, and using the drug for breakthrough cases. 

[ktgrok]

They withdrew the meds out of the kits because they were not effective, and people were getting sick from too much zinc. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/goa/ivermectin-doxy-zinc-to-be-excluded-from-covid-home-isolation-kits/articleshow/83676133.cms

[Faith-manor]

6 hours ago, KSera said:

Well, if we want to talk about logic and evidence, then had they gotten the well tested vaccine rather than staying home taking a drug off label for a purpose that it has not yet shown strong evidence of therapeutic benefit for, that would have been overwhelmingly likely to give them the better outcome of not needing any treatment at all.

Here, here! 

I think people who have loved ones that are avid listeners of FoxNews who got covid and have disabilities or died, need to find some son of a b*tch type take them down with a vengeance lawyers and go after them for practicing medicine without a license. It is incomprehensible to me that they continue to get away with that. Alex Jones just got nailed on Sandy Hook, so why can't Tucker Carlson and company be nailed on covid lies? I don't think the Fourth Estate is exempt from suits just because "press".

[Tanaqui]

If you don't get vaccinated even if you can, you are infringing on everybody's right to live in a world where they can't get infected with covid. That's not win-win, that's an utter failure of you taking responsibility for your actions. The fact that medication can help does not absolve anybody of their responsibility to others.

[catz]

11 hours ago, Fritz said:

At what dosage? If it had been correctly prescribed rather than them resorting to guessing at dosage they might have had a better outcome as evidenced by the India home kits discussed. 

Again, there has not been a double blind randomized peer review study that has shown efficacy of ivermectin for covid to this point.  Several small studies have shown it not to have significant affect.  Metadata analysis does not equate to double blind randomized peer review study.  If/when such studies exist, then it will get widely used. 

To say India did great with covid is ridiculous.   My husband's India office had 5 people die from a 400 person office and 4 of them were under age 40.  Plenty of other stories of lost parents and how people transported family members many hours to try and find a hospital bed from that small sample.   And this was from a wealthy cohort in India.  

This new drug was so efficacious during the double blind study, it became unethical to continue to have a control group.

Agree we'd have everyone vaccinated who could be and use this for breakthrough cases.  I hope they are studying that.   We need layers of protection.  

[Fritz]

8 hours ago, KSera said:

Well, if we want to talk about logic and evidence, then had they gotten the well tested vaccine rather than staying home taking a drug off label for a purpose that it has not yet shown strong evidence of therapeutic benefit for, that would have been overwhelmingly likely to give them the better outcome of not needing any treatment at all.

Covid-19 did not start when the vaccine came out. Many people died before the vaccines were out. Had many of the dead been given ivermectin in the correct dosage along with the other vitamins included in the home kits those in India were given perhaps there would have been fewer deaths. Telling doctors they are not allowed to prescribe medications (old medications with known effects, I might add) but rather must send patients home to wait and see if they get to the point of not being able to breathe is not a plan to provide the best care for your citizens. I am sure the families of the now dead, if asked, would have preferred their family member to at least been offered these kits or at least a prescription for Ivermectin at the outset of diagnosis.