. . .

[Drama Llama]

. . . 

Edited October 26, 2021 by BaseballandHockey

[Drama Llama]

Just now, Medicmom2.0 said:

Also this is beside the point, but how does one change their name? (Sorry to thread hijack)

I deleted my account in August.  So, I made a new one using a burner email.

[PeterPan]

Hi, I wondered where you had gone and how things were. 

It seems like you have two questions or maybe three, not quite clear

-whether things have changed and the shared family bubble is ready to alter

-what is safe for your people (minus the 90 year old)

-what is best for the 90 year old

I have a fair number of elderly/vulnerable people in my family and they all make different choices. I feel like CHOICE is part of life and an important part of being respected and happy. For myself and my ds, we wear Happy Masks. They are evidence based and allow me some measure of ethical consideration that I am not doing something much higher risk (wearing a pea thin cotton mask that would fit our state parameters but offer zero protection). But if my elderly family want hugs, THEY GET HUGS. If they take off their mask, I look or ask to see if they want mine on or off. They're all making different choices and I think that respect is important.

The availability of effective treatments is changing rapidly, and I think even within the next month we could see a shift. I think that makes a difference. But I think it's ok to respect someone's choice if they want hugs and connection.

Little evidence of outdoor transmission (it seems) and little evidence of child to adult in under 10. Honestly, our local groups aren't even getting together. We had an informal at the park, all young children where my ds11 was the oldest. Outdoors, generally spaced, all young, no issues to me. 

Your level of approach now seems reasonable in context. So is the question how to handle the extendeds coming over for meals? It would be easy to say eat outside. That's what our family wanted to do but the weather is getting cold. So I think reality sets in. You can have the meal indoors but SPACE PEOPLE. Our family did that. You conspicuously noticed people sitting in chairs around the perimeter. You could rearrange the furniture to give space. 

I hope they get the therapeutics out soon so this becomes less of an issue. 

[brehon]

These are very hard times. I work in EMS, as does MM, so have been constantly exposed to various illnesses, including CV, since late February/early March. My area was hit much harder and much earlier than MM’s area and, while there was a lull in the late summer, numbers are creeping back up and people tend to be much sicker now.

My parents live in different cities than I do; so, I don’t have the option to easily visit them. Neither of my parents (they are divorced) are at the sanitizing groceries level of cautious, but they are at a mask, social distance, don’t go out unless necessary level. I haven’t seen my dad since late 2019. My mom has cautiously visited us a couple of times and it’s been fine. She is at a higher risk than my dad, health wise.

My kids are altar servers and, between the Vigil Mass and two of the English NO Masses on Sundays, they serve three Masses every weekend. They and the priests/deacons also mask during Mass. Confessions are still by appointment only and my family is happy with the precautions that are taken.

They also attend in person TWD classes on Mondays, Wednesdays, & Saturdays. They are usually the only people in the classes (in person, the classes are also offered via Zoom) and the instructor takes precautions very seriously.

Personally, I would not make decisions for my parents or other relatives as to whether or not they should see us. I do have boundaries (I won’t travel to see them, for instance, because of my work), but we give everyone all the relevant information and they make their own decisions. My dad has decided to stay in Houston (another hotspot) and my mom decides on a situational basis after ensuring no one in my household is ill in *any* way.

I’m not sure if what I wrote is helpful for you or not. My husband, who usually takes the kids to Mass and is the head cat — I mean, altar server — coordinator, also serves as needed. I occasionally sing at Mass (masked and distanced in the loft). We have decided to cautiously allow our family to participate in limited, vetted (by us for reasonable safety precautions) experiences. 

[Terabith]

I’m not sure where we fall on the caution spectrum.  We are more cautious than most people in real life, but less than some here.  We have thought a lot about how to balance covid precaution with mental health and what can we sustain for long term, since I figure this will go on for at least another year and possibly longer.  
 

Outdoor activities, masked if outdoors, are pretty much an automatic yes.  Walks, hikes, bike rides all would be fine.   Exception for high contact.  Probably not basketball, unless I know people playing with are also cautious.  Soccer and baseball, yes.  Swimming I am anxious about....I desperately want to swim but it’s indoors.  I haven’t yet, but I’m considering.  I’m letting my kids go to outdoor gatherings at school:  weekly lunches, a calculus retreat, Friday outdoor outings.  
 

I am letting my youngest sing in a masked, outdoor, socially distant choir and hang with four friends once a week. Some have more exposure than we do but not by much.  They are indoors.  Kids wear masks for most of it, and usually there’s an outdoor component of nerf guns or beating each other with sticks or taking a long walk.  They’re great for her cardio.  
 

My kids do more online socialization.  We see my in laws, who are fine with our choices and actually more willing to do things I’m not.   Indoor dining.  I’m trying to make sure groups are small and meet mental health needs.  We do get take out or a couple times patio dining.  
 

Mass is clearly important to Pop and maybe others.  Could he spend time talking to the priest?   Sacraments are important for everyone.  
 

I think I would allow take out food.  That feels very liberating and the risk is negligible.   I would consider school if the adults around aren’t able to give kids what they need.  I would prioritize outdoor play and friends.  
 

The brother at greatest risk....I’d stuff him with Pen’s protocol:  vitamin d3 with K2, selenium, zinc, vitamin C, quercetin, melatonin.  Hydration, strict cleanliness when he comes over.  And maybe try to keep six feet from him?  Mental health might trump that risk.  Can he get a weekly schedule, so he knows when he’s free.  

Do you feel safe going masked to grocery or Target?  
 

I would try really hard to meet S’s need for time outside the family with people who are trustworthy.  I think that’s important for his mental health, especially since hockey really isn’t a great sport.  Any others he is interested in?  Martial arts?  And I would work towards gradually encouraging R to do more.  Maybe confirmation with the kids from his class?   

I would try hard to keep adult with more community exposure in life, but I would try to get him on Pen’s supplements and change clothes/ shower before coming over   And maybe it sleeping over.  But Pops needs to see him.  And so do the boys.  But maybe discourage hugging.   

Data says outside over inside, ventilated over not, not crowded situations.  Surface and food transmission is incredibly rare.  

Edited October 10, 2020 by Terabith

[Not_a_Number]

We are basically being 100% cautious. However, I'm keeping excellent track of the risks, so I call tell them to you with no judgment. 

Here's what seems to be true right now: 

a) Most spread seems to occurs in crowded environments indoors. There seems to be limited outdoor risk, except with prolonged close contact. 

b) Most people apparently don't spread the virus. So this is a game of rolling a 1000-sided die with ONE bad side many times. That means that lots of decisions won't lead to badness until they do. You can't assume that something is safe because it was fine one time. This has to be a long game. 

c) As far as I can tell, the IFR of this illness hasn't budged since March, despite progress with treatments. I imagine that at some point, the treatments will actually improve enough to make a dent in the IFR, but we don't seem to be there yet. 

d) Kids do seem to spread it, last I checked. If I remember the study correctly, kids of age 6-10 spread it more effectively than adults if anything. However, they tend to have mild cases. 

So... what does this all mean? It's really unclear. I'm not sure you CAN be particularly cautious if interacting with someone who is going out into public. But it's also not clear that in your situation that the worst risks are COVID and not mental health and other needs. If you wanted to be mildly cautious, I'd socialize outside and with masks on. But if that's not feasible, I'd just do whatever your mental health needs. 

I would also try to remember that all of these probabilities are being multiplied together and it's not a "if I do one thing, I may as well do them all." The fewer interactions you have, the better. I'd make yourself a risk budget and think about the most important things are. Then do those and don't get more relaxed in other situations just because you feel like you are already not being careful. 

[Acadie]

I'm so sorry to hear your son passed. My condolences to you and your family on your loss, and the particular pain of Covid restrictions that don't allow families to be together in the way we usually would. I remember he and your dh had a special bond and I'm glad to hear he was held in his daddy's arms. 

It sounds like you're handling this period of grief and transition in the same thoughtful, heart-centered way you figured out how to care for your whole family through your son's illness. 

I'm not sure I can speak to the specifics of your situation, but I have two general thoughts--one is that we can't all live in our basements for the next year or more. We all have an "exposure budget" to spend, and your family's exposure just dropped because you aren't going to the hospital regularly for care, which makes things safer the 90 year old in your home. So to me prioritizing safer, masked & distanced, especially outdoor opportunities for worship, exercise and gathering with family and friends seems essential. 

The second thought is to focus on outdoor gatherings. I'd be concerned about the family member returning to a public-facing job, and wonder if you can come up with more ways to gather outdoors with extended family and friends, even as the weather cools. Fire pit gatherings, sitting or eating in the garage with the door open, electric blankets on the deck, grilling at a park, hikes or bike rides, whatever. If there's any room in the budget, investing in things that will make outdoor gathering more possible or more fun seems like a worthwhile investment right now. For hiking and biking, we go without  masks when we can maintain distance, but on crowded paths I have a mask looped over one ear and pull it up as needed. Or if that seems potentially dangerous when biking, a loose-fitting mask could be a good solution. Not as much protection as you'd want indoors, but a good compromise between easy breathing and safety. 

We are still keeping indoor gatherings to a minimum--we had 2 other couples over for dinner recently, but were outside the whole time except for a few minutes when people masked to come indoors to use the bathroom or get food. Drinks were outdoors, and I originally planned to put the food outdoors but it was a chilly evening. The blazing fire pit was fun, and it felt safe and worked out well. The other couples take distancing seriously too and I could tell everyone was really happy to be together in a safe way.

I'm also thinking about exercise this winter, sprucing up a corner of our basement as a home gym. We like the streaming Mass and drive-through Communion at our church so we'll continue to do that, even though they opened last weekend for distanced, in person Mass. 

Getting out in nature is making a huge difference for all of us. Is there a park or beach where your family could gather for lunch or sunset? I think the natural world can be a comfort in grief, too.

 

[Lawyer&Mom]

Just wanted to say we are still sanitizing our groceries. You aren’t the only ones!  

[Ausmumof3]

Riding bikes outdoors, particularly if the kids can manage to remember to keep a bit of distance seems like it should be reasonably safe.  I’d also maybe do playgrounds if they aren’t crowded.  Personally unless you’re in a super low risk area I’d aim for outdoor mass rather than indoor if it’s available and the weather is ok.  I’d try to avoid anything with singing or chanting indoors.   
 

I totally get your concerns about Pop but I guess at 90 he can make his own decisions.  I think for many 60 or 70 year olds the social distancing feels more worthwhile because they hope to have many years but for those in their 90s it doesn’t feel worth it.  
 

I know by personal experience that time in a safe non grieving environment for your children is really important.  I would take some level of risk to provide that.  I’m not sure if you’re homeschooling or zoom schooling or what.  For me personally at the time in my life I was homeschooled but had a two day a week coop that was so important.  Not that the kids or even other adults necessarily understood but it was somewhere to be that things just felt normal for a few hours.  What that might look like for you probably depends a lot on how bad or well managed things are in your area.  Some of the schools in the US do seem to be doing quite an impressive job of managing risk.

[Drama Llama]

. . . 

Edited October 26, 2021 by BaseballandHockey
overshared

[Amira]

I am so very sorry for your loss.  I hope you can find a good path forward for your family. ❤️

[Drama Llama]

. . . 

Edited October 26, 2021 by BaseballandHockey

[sassenach]

I noticed your absence. Thank you for sharing your life with us.

The longer this goes on, the more my decisions have been emotionally based. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing, honestly. It feels more human. We all know that 100% protection would be to never leave our houses and have no human contact. Anything we do beyond that is on the sliding scale of risk and the only reason to slide that button over is emotional. So I'm leaning into it, even though I am still cautious.

Example: When people come over, we're almost exclusively outdoors with them. Well dd has a friend who is really struggling with distance learning and isolation (side note: the teens in my world are hitting a wall and it's getting very concerning). Dd's friend has had a lot of personal tragedy and really just needs a mom figure. I had her invite him over for the day- indoors, no masks. Emotionally, I knew that what this kid needs is people and love. It was a risk and the decision was 100% emotions based but I know it was the right choice.

I'm very comfortable with outdoor everything. Outdoor transmission is like peeing in a pool (or the ocean). Unless you are extremely physically close, you're not catching it outdoors. 

We're avoiding indoor things but we're making exceptions now. We have one family that we spend time indoors with because they have no family in our state and we're that family for them. All 4 adults get tested weekly because of work, so we decided to be indoors together. So as far as your BIL, could he get tested regularly? Or can you be primarily outdoors?

(((Big Hugs))) 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by sassenach

[Garga]

I have a rule that we don’t hang out with people indoors. But I know that rule will have to be broken for Thanksgiving and Christmas or there will be more tension in the family than I want to deal with.  My rule is that when we meet indoors for Tgiving/Christmas, we wear masks except for eating. I can’t force the other family members to do that, but for my family group we will

And when we eat, each family group will sit at separate tables.  The house we meet at for those meetings has an open living room/dining room area and we have folding tables, so it will work.  (There are 10 of us.)

That could be a rule for you as well perhaps?  And if everyone is on board to wearing their masks, too, all the better.  

 

I would say that it would be sad for your 90 yo GFIL to spend his remaining time alone. There’s a book called “Being Mortal” that talks about how it’s important to let people near the end of life choose how they want the quality of their remaining life to be, even at the cost of losing time. If he wants to see everyone, he should see everyone. But in that case, the best scenario is that everyone needs to mask and the masks need to be worn properly.  They need to fit tightly and not dip under noses. I see a lot of people trying to wear their masks, but due to the shape of their noses, the masks slide off.  If masks are slipping off, then buy those straps that go around the head that the mask strings attach to to make the fit tighter. Or try different types of masks.  

 

I would prepare the family in the event that GFIL gets covid.  Let everyone know that it’s one thing to get it and not be ready for it, but it’s another to make the calculated risk and balance out having dignity and love in ones last few days vs living longer and being alone and depressed.  Let everyone know that it is his choice to risk that and that the pros are worth the cons.  And if he contracts it, he’s at peace with it.

Whenever possible, do everything outside. Maybe make a fire pit or buy some sort of fire holder, so that even when it gets a little nippy, everyone can wear a hat and coat and sit around the fire.  

 

As far as church, I’d just say wear the masks and stay 6 feet apart whenever you can.  And measure indoors what 6 feet looks like.  It’s a bit more than people think. Couches are usually 6-8 feet long. So, stand a full couch-length apart from others. whenever you can.

 

As another poster mentioned, I too have dealt with a family member sinking into serious depression during covid, and had to make the choice between him losing his life due to harming himself vs losing his life due to covid.  He wasn’t quite at that point yet, but was teetering.  We decided to let him attend a weekly indoor activity around a table for 6 hours with masks (D&D with friends). Note: I was also able to have him take a medicine that has helped immensely., but he still goes every week to be with his friends.  In every other area, I’m pretty strict about covid, but had to make a change based on mental health needs vs just physical needs.  

Edited October 10, 2020 by Garga

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I'm pretty sure I remember a thread from you about potties and the park, so your 100% might be less cautious than what we're doing, which feels like a huge risk because of the place we're in.  I'm not saying that to be judgmental, but what I'm asking is kind of how to get to the point I think you're at?

We never did wind up doing any play dates. I thought about it, and then couldn't go through with it. (That is, if you know who I am -- I've changed names since you were last here.)  

So right now, all we're doing is outdoor time with no potties, doctor's appointments, and podding with our family in Boston. I've started running a Zoom class for social time for DD8 and otherwise, the kids play together. But then the kids don't have serious mental health issues and they love podding with their little cousin. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[hippiemamato3]

 

Second, our family is pretty cautious, but with some caveats. My son and his girlfriend both work in stores where they come into contact with (masked) public  - they need to see each other, so there's a risk we have agreed to take on.  My husband works at home and does the grocery shopping,etc. and my daughter does figure skate at her (very careful and masked) skating rink twice a week. These outside activities are not negotiable. So...we are careful and do see family (usually outside, mostly masked) knowing that they are also careful. It's a delicate balance, but we have chosen mental health to be equally as important as physical at this point. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by hippiemamato3
I'm a jerk and didn't notice the hugely capitalized request. So sorry.

[brehon]

You’re absolutely correct and y’all are going through an incredibly difficult time right now. I don’t think there are any perfect answers in your situation. You can only do the best you can do with the information you have at the time.

What that could mean practically is that, as you’ve decided, you make decisions that lower risk — no ice hockey, no in person school, yes to playing outdoors with friends/riding bikes/whatever. Yes to Mass outdoors. Maybe yes to extended family meals, but everyone is spaced further apart or you’re outside.

I personally don’t think of the decisions as physical v. mental health. Both are very important and each affects the other. I think of them as a risk benefit analysis and how the risks can be lowered so the benefits can be reaped. Each family’s individual analysis is different. Your family is very much between a rock and a hard place in terms of dealing with grief and protecting a beloved and vulnerable family member. I think you’re on the right track regarding your family’s activities. 

[Moonhawk]

I approach it as a risk budget. If the most important thing are extended family meals, then the majority of the new risk you take on should be budgeted for that. Then outdoor Mass, but maybe indoor Mass is put off a bit longer right now since it has a slightly-higher risk cost. Bicycling seems a lower risk cost, plus if it's an overlapping person from the extended family meals, I would say it's a "free risk." Walking between houses as long as you aren't licking the houses in between would probably be neglible; my DH, who since February has only been out for doctor appointments and this past week to a very limited church gathering, has been walking around the neighborhood most of the time and has seen it as no-risk situation for him (he crosses the street if he sees another walker, and has a mask with him in case someone approaches). 

Personally I wobble about neighbor kids. I've allowed it in times past, when I had absolutely no other risks outside of groceries. Right now I am not allowing it, as we are taking on a much-higher-risk-item to our budget -- we've seen my parents last week and they want to see us later in the month. They are high-risk in terms of they do not take any unnecessary precautions like washing hands or wearing masks in groups, so that is limiting everything else I'm willing to do. 

[Drama Llama]

. . . 

Edited October 26, 2021 by BaseballandHockey

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

I approach it as a risk budget. If the most important thing are extended family meals, then the majority of the new risk you take on should be budgeted for that. Then outdoor Mass, but maybe indoor Mass is put off a bit longer right now since it has a slightly-higher risk cost. Bicycling seems a lower risk cost, plus if it's an overlapping person from the extended family meals, I would say it's a "free risk." Walking between houses as long as you aren't licking the houses in between would probably be neglible; my DH, who since February has only been out for doctor appointments and this past week to a very limited church gathering, has been walking around the neighborhood most of the time and has seen it as no-risk situation for him (he crosses the street if he sees another walker, and has a mask with him in case someone approaches). 

Personally I wobble about neighbor kids. I've allowed it in times past, when I had absolutely no other risks outside of groceries. Right now I am not allowing it, as we are taking on a much-higher-risk-item to our budget -- we've seen my parents last week and they want to see us later in the month. They are high-risk in terms of they do not take any unnecessary precautions like washing hands or wearing masks in groups, so that is limiting everything else I'm willing to do. 

Yep. This is the right way to think about it, I think. Figure out what your risk tolerance is, evaluate the risks according to current data, then make your decisions. 

We're doing more stuff than we were in March, but that's mostly because we have information about what situations are safe and what situations aren't. And we're lucky in that we don't have nearly as much balancing to do as you do. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, BaseballandHockey said:

He lives with us.  He's in a bubble with 5 kids, a college student and 5 other adults.  That collection of people won't change, so he's definitely not alone.   That doesn't change the fact that he, and the rest of us, want to see DH's other two siblings and their spouses, and that he wants to go back to mass and reconciliation, and I think we'll figure out some kind of middle ground for those two things.  But, I don't want people to think he's alone. 

I'd personally avoid crowded indoor events if at all feasible. It depends how necessary they feel, of course. But assuming they are not of the first order of importance, those seem like the scariest situations. 

[Zoo Keeper]

OP,

My deepest sympathy on your loss; please know I am praying for you and your family right now. 

May you be granted wisdom, strength, and peace throughout the coming days.

[Drama Llama]

17 minutes ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

I forgot to add—my younger brother passed away when I was 11.  It would have been devastating to lose a beloved grandparent during that time as well.  There are no perfect answers in this imperfect world, especially during a pandemic.  I know you are religious; it is something you could discuss with a trusted Priest? 

I am sorry for your loss.  I am very worried about the long term impact on my kids.  This isn't easy.

I am also clearly struggling with this, because I've talked to the priest, and my kids' therapist, and the grief counselor, and some friends. My anxiety is just really high right now. 

[catz]

I am so sad and sorry for your loss.  Thinking of all of you as you navigate to a new normal and grieve your sweet boy.  ❤️

I think a senior of sound mind should be able to make their own calls.  Both my father-in-law and mother who live alone are being less conservative than we are at our house.  I turned 50 this year, my husband is in his later 50's.  And we're in a metro that has just been doing an up and down slow burn so it's not like numbers have been great since spring.   We do see them, primarily outside.  My father-in-law is 90 and we just lost my mother in law a few months ago so he has especially needed extra support.  My husband goes and takes him food weekly.   

I am of the mind, the more that you can do outdoors the better.  Invest in good cooler weather gear.  Think of getting a heater/tent shelter.  Our garage is built such that there is a garage door on both sides that open so can serve as a shelter.  Stock up on blankets.  I think of things in terms of risk budget too.  If that once a week get together is what you need to do, just ask folks to monitor any symptoms and meet as safely as possible.  Hopefully your area is contact tracing.  I also think your meal train stuff is very low risk, I would just wash hands before and after unpacking your food.  I really wouldn't worry much about outdoor biking, walking, park visits, mass if you are decently spaced and there is good air circulation.  It is clear from our metro indoor, close range stuff is really driving outbreaks.  I have been walking outdoors daily in covid heavy urban neighborhood including past nursing homes with covid, etc for 7 months.  This is like single family home dense, not NYC dense and our numbers have never been that high.  If I can maintain distance, I do not worry about masking outdoors, I just keep one on me.   I'd just to budget anything indoors not more than weekly and with limited numbers if possible.  

Edited October 10, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[freesia]

We would fall into your parameters.  I  am now very comfortable with outside play dates. I even allow them unmasked if they make a general effort to social distance and mask when it’s difficult. Except the family whose father is immune compromised. Dd always masks with them. I haven’t seen much evidence of outside spread. 

I don’t know what your local positivity rate is, but ours is low (although rising.). Because it’s low, I have allowed them to go to an indoor youth group that follows protocol. My third, in particular, absolutely needs the social aspect and I think things will go online again soon and I wanted to let him have some fun. 

There are some other things I do, but unless you were in an area where things are really getting bad, I’d be comfortable with mass and letting the kids play freely outside.

With regard to family visiting and the grandfather, I would strive to have outside get together s if possible, but, at this point, and in those circumstances, I think you need family and he needs to make the call. At 90 I’d just want to see family. A couple of months is one thing, but, if everyone is careful, I would do it. ( maybe consider getting a Hepa filter air purifier with UV settings.)

[brehon]

8 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

He lives with us.  He's in a bubble with 5 kids, a college student and 5 other adults.  That collection of people won't change, so he's definitely not alone.   That doesn't change the fact that he, and the rest of us, want to see DH's other two siblings and their spouses, and that he wants to go back to mass and reconciliation, and I think we'll figure out some kind of middle ground for those two things.  But, I don't want people to think he's alone. 

How is your church handling confession right now? If you/your family aren’t comfortable with current practices, would the priest be willing to take some extra precautions for your GFIL? How is Communion handled?

I think you can include the other siblings and spouses in get-togethers. It may just look different — masked, outdoors, etc.

And it’s completely normal to feel everything you’re feeling and not know how to handle everything. Just know that there is no perfect in these times, muddling through is just fine. 

[J-rap]

We no longer have children at home, so I know our situation is different.  Our bubble is very small right now -- our two dd's, the dh of the one who is married, my father and my sister.  They are all very careful too, but they all also have their own small bubbles outside of us (although our dd's only meet outdoors with their bubble friends, which in both cases, consists of only 2 people-- but who also have their own "other" bubbles of family members.  So, we know we are not risk-free!   But the point is being careful to the extent that we can, masking anytime in public indoor places (essential places), and not seeing many other people.

So even though there are multiple small bubbles going on here, I feel there's still at least a thin layer of cushion between our bubbles.  If our dd's get sick from their small bubbles, then we won't see them anymore for awhile.  If I get sick from seeing my sister, I'll do the same.  We know we're taking small chances, but I know everyone in each of our bubbles is being careful.  We almost always meet outdoors, even for meals.  (A lot of picnics!)   And our state has a mask mandate, so everyone here wears masks in public spaces.  The people getting sick here are the ones who are unmasked in private larger group INDOOR settings.  

So, we do a lot outside, go to cafes with outdoor tables, and live life.

Again, the point is not being perfect, but doing as best as we can while still doing things important to our hearts.  

Many blessings to you and your family. 

 

[Corraleno]

I've been thinking about you and wondering how you and your family were doing. I'm glad to "see" you here again, but I'm so very sorry for the loss of your son. (((hugs)))

It sounds like your primary goal is to allow your DH's other siblings and their families to interact with grandpa as safely as possible. Two practical suggestions for that would be to make outdoor gatherings more doable and to provide enhanced protection for grandpa. Do you have a fire pit or would it be possible to add one to your back yard? Do you have outdoor furniture that would allow a large group to gather with sufficient distancing? As for protecting grandpa, I would buy the best quality mask you can find that offers the most protection for the wearer. Can you get medical grade N-95s? A well-fitted respirator with an exhaust valve would be easier to breathe in and would protect him without really putting others at increased risk. That would make it safer for him to hug his grandkids sometimes.

[cintinative]

I don't have any answers. I just wanted to say how sorry I am about your loss.  I can't even imagine.  To lose someone in this pandemic is doubly hard. We so need people to sit with us and grieve.  And I totally understand how making all these decisions for your family would be difficult.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

You may have already done this since I know that you were very careful about all illnesses.  But I would put getting flu shots as a priority for the entire extended family:  your FIL, your Dh's siblings and families as well as your own nuclear family.  The reasoning behind this is to vaccinate for what you can so that at least you are cutting down the fall/winter viruses that can attack besides just COVID19. 

Bike riding is very low risk in my opinion.  So is walking outside where there are good air currents. 

Could your hockey loving son get some rink time when the rink is almost empty - just to get some skating in and exercise? 

 

[mommyoffive]

I am so sorry for your loss.  I am sending prayers to your entire family. 

We are still living like it is March.   After our lockdown ended, I was starting to get comfortable with the kids doing outside with others, but then our cases started rising and now soooooo high.

But I would have people on the vitamin protocol. 

Do things outside even when it is cold.   Firepit, heater, blankets, warm drinks. 

Masks when with people. 

That is where I am going to start when we get back into life.

 

[BusyMom5]

My deepest condolences for your family.   I am trying to balance are the emotional needs of my kids vs exposure.   Its hard, but I think there are real mental health risks to staying so isolated.   

My grandparents are much older- and one has health issues.  They locked down for the first 2 months, but it was very bad for their mental health.  We have been seeing them every few weeks.  They go to church- masked.  They go-to the store and a handful of other places- masked.  It is hard to say, but honestly they will probably be gone within the next year- Covid or no Covid.  The one who is sick will be getting a treatment in the next few weeks that knocks the immune system and our family has been discussing how to handle it.  On one hand,  its very risky to expose them to any germs at all- flu, Covid,  even a cold (and honestly they could just get sick from allergies).   On the other hand, the only happiness they have in their lives cones from going to church and seeing their family.  I think at 90 your grandpa has a completely different perspective than we do in our 30s and 40s.  I know mine have already prepared to pass at any time.  Their friends have passed, they know its something that will happen in the near future.   

I think you should make choices based on mental health.  Most older people who get Covid do recover.  Even if 85+  has a 15% mortality rate,  85%  of them recover!  Its his choice to make, not yours.  

[fairfarmhand]

I am so sorry for your loss.

we do outdoor stuff with people. We do church with distance and masks.

We avoid large groups of people we don’t know. So like for my dd, a party of strangers+friends would be a no go even outdoors, but outdoor small gatherings with people we know who are careful are ok.

I also want to say that whatever you decide, it’s ok for you to do some stuff for now, and change things in the future, especially if numbers change. Just be sure that you communicate that fact to your son especially and your extended family members. You do really need people around you. Emotional health is important too.

[Gobblygook]

I consider us to be fairly cautious, but we are less cautious than others on this board. We have reduced risks in some areas, so I feel like we can take certain other risks for mental health reasons. 

We have a child who is pretty high-risk and at his doctor's recommendations, we are keeping him home from school. Another child went to school part-time and she is now entirely homeschooled. Child #3 was already 100% homeschooled. Child #4 attends a small private school that is meeting 5 days a week but has done well so far with its COVID precautions. 

We limit our gathering with friends and family to outside, socially-distanced and often mask-wearing. Church is online, with occasional outdoor fellowship with masks and social distancing required. Confirmation class is online, my Bible study is online. We mostly see other people who are also cautious. We do grocery pick-up, very occasional shopping in-person always with masks and hand sanitizer afterwards. We go to co-op, but 95 percent of people mask and classes are small with outdoor space, open windows, etc. One child goes to an occasional outdoor art/nature class at a nearby nature center and requires masks and social distancing outside. I organize our group and we limit it to families that are also taking COVID precautions. High-risk child goes to individual occupational, physical and speech therapy 2x/week but both he and therapists are fully masked (he also wears a face shield.) One child plays outdoor soccer with a very small private school. Our primary vector is our high school student who is in school full-time and also plays sports. I accept that risk because it's so important for his mental health for a variety of reasons. 

What's going to be hard is that we tend to have very long, cold and difficult winters and we are nearing the point where it will be difficult to be outside for all of the things that I describe above. I suspect we'll basically lock ourselves down, with the exception of co-op and school for the high schooler. It will be difficult from a mental health standpoint, which is why we are trying to get out as much as possible now, in a safe and responsible way. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Gobblygook

[Katy]

I've been thinking about you and said a few prayers for your family.  I know you were anticipating this, but I can't imagine that makes it any easier.  I'm so sorry for your loss.

It sounds like you want permission to both include Grandpa in your lives and let your youngest one relax a bit, within reason.  I think your instincts to do so are good.  You can let him be careful, within reason, and still have Grandpa around.   Presumably a 90 year old who's not in a nursing home is of sound mind to decide how he feels about the risks himself.  You need family, you need normality, you need an emotional break.  And that's okay.  It's okay to let your guard down now and take time to grieve.

[maize]

We are cautious but not isolating.

One thing I have done is to find the highest quality masks I can locate, KN95 or N95. We wear those masks rather than cloth or surgical style masks when we need to be around other people.

[Ottakee]

So sorry for your loss.  Later, grief camp might get helpful for your kids.  It was a huge help with my foster son who lost his mother.

I would focus on the outdoor stuff as much as possible.  I am not as cautious as many here, but more so that most on my area.

[Frances]

I’m so sorry for your loss. My thought are with all of you as you navigate through this difficult time.

[SKL]

There seems to be some consensus that brief encounters are very low risk. 

That said, I would try to keep as much as possible outdoors as long as the weather allows.  (I would allow outdoor church, bike rides, picnics, and similar, provided people keep a bit of distance from each other.)  After the season becomes too wintry for much of that, you would want to re-assess and decide what to change.  Things will be a little different as far as where everyone is emotionally.

In the case of your elderly family member, I would be sure to get a test immediately if symptoms are seen.  This could make a big difference in outcomes.  Of course you will also want to do all you can as far as keeping everyone's immune system healthy.  I keep pushing vitamin D.  I know there are other things too, but vitamin D seems to be a universal game changer.

[Shoeless]

Oh, I'm so incredibly sorry about your son.  I wish I could offer you something more than words on a screen.  I am thinking of you. ❤️ 

[Drama Llama]

2 hours ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

If you think it would help at all, now or in the future, I’d be glad to share our story privately.  My mother and her sister also lost their seven year old brother as children.  It is hard to imagine, but all of us grew up to be functional adults, with perhaps an extra dose of compassion and wisdom.  

Be gentle with yourself.  These are not normal times and you are not going through normal experiences. It’s okay to keep talking for as much and as long as you need to.  It’s also okay to not know what the right thing is and to just muddle through the darkness.  

I would love it if you would share. You have always seemed both compassionate and wise to me so you give me hope.

[Drama Llama]

30 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

So sorry for your loss.  Later, grief camp might get helpful for your kids.  It was a huge help with my foster son who lost his mother.

I would focus on the outdoor stuff as much as possible.  I am not as cautious as many here, but more so that most on my area.

We have connected with a grief counselor.  Right now, only DH and I have seen her, because I think what the kids need most is for us to be a little more stable.  But long term, the idea is that she'll work with them.  They also have groups and camps for when the kids are ready.

[rebcoola]

The only people we see indoors are in our bubble.  We are saying yes to things outdoors with distancing.

The one exception is church we are going about once a month when DH's schedule allows us all to go together.  We wear our most protective masks, we don't socialize inside , our church is following all the guidelines.  It makes me nervous but we needed some more connection there.  We don't use the childcare. 

We don't grocery shop generally because we can afford delivery-pick up and it's an easy way to lower our total exposure.

[Not_a_Number]

39 minutes ago, maize said:

We are cautious but not isolating.

One thing I have done is to find the highest quality masks I can locate, KN95 or N95. We wear those masks rather than cloth or surgical style masks when we need to be around other people.

Yeah, I've started wearing N95s for anything indoor. I'm not currently wasting those on being at the park, though. 

[Drama Llama]

38 minutes ago, maize said:

We are cautious but not isolating.

One thing I have done is to find the highest quality masks I can locate, KN95 or N95. We wear those masks rather than cloth or surgical style masks when we need to be around other people.

One blessing is that we went into this with a lifetime supply of N95, because DH's dad has a business that does a lot of painting.  We donated a lot, but kept a fair number because of the high risk family members. They don't fit the kids, so we got them Happy Masks. 

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

One blessing is that we went into this with a lifetime supply of N95, because DH's dad has a business that does a lot of painting.  We donated a lot, but kept a fair number because of the high risk family members. They don't fit the kids, so we got them Happy Masks. 

Are Happy Masks supposed to be better than basic cotton masks? Sorry, I can take my usual thread derailing to a spin-off if you prefer. 

[Drama Llama]

2 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

I also want to mention that.........this is a thing.  Your grief is very fresh and right now, it's ok to not have all the answers.  It's ok to take time to just breath.  Just do what works right now.  And what works today, might not be what works tomorrow.....and that's ok.  

I am finding it really hard to make any decision, and any decision I can put off I will.  So, for example, I don't need to decide about the grocery store, because delivery is working.  

But we do need to decide about a few things.  It's not fair to my youngest that he keeps asking and asking and has no idea if we're going to say yes or no.  

I think the hardest decisions for me are about my youngest.  He clearly needs lots of exercise, and time with people who aren't grieving to get through this.  For exercise, the aunts and uncles and the college age cousin are stepping up.  There have been lots of bike rides, and basketball, and wrestling in the backyard.  I think that, with masks and hand sanitizer after, we'll probably continue all of that, and hope that it's safe.  

The second part is harder for me.  We've been letting our boys see a pair of brothers that are friends, only outdoors with masks, only playing in socially distanced ways, and only with adult supervision.  But I'm not sure where to go from there.  Masks and outdoors seems obvious, but do we allow them to play with more than just those 2 friends?  To play when an adult isn't there to watch them?  To go to the park?  To play games like basketball and football when social distancing isn't possible?  What about something like the church playground after outdoor mass?  

[Drama Llama]

6 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Are Happy Masks supposed to be better than basic cotton masks? Sorry, I can take my usual thread derailing to a spin-off if you prefer. 

Yes, at least according to their website.  

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, BaseballandHockey said:

The second part is harder for me.  We've been letting our boys see a pair of brothers that are friends, only outdoors with masks, only playing in socially distanced ways, and only with adult supervision.  But I'm not sure where to go from there.  Masks and outdoors seems obvious, but do we allow them to play with more than just those 2 friends?  To play when an adult isn't there to watch them?  To go to the park?  To play games like basketball and football when social distancing isn't possible?  What about something like the church playground after outdoor mass?  

I'd probably slowly introduce activities and figure out what is actually necessary for mental health. So, I wouldn't add lots of things at once. 

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

Presumably a 90 year old who's not in a nursing home is of sound mind to decide how he feels about the risks himself. 

For decisions that involve the risk he takes directly, yes.  But he's not the one making the decisions about what the kids are allowed to do that impact him.  We aren't going to socially distance inside the bubble, that would be heartbreaking for him I think, so anything my kids are exposed to, he's exposed to at the breakfast table, or when they hug and kiss him goodnight.  And making the decisions about what the kids are exposed to is my responsibility.