. . .

[fairfarmhand]

5 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I am finding it really hard to make any decision, and any decision I can put off I will.  So, for example, I don't need to decide about the grocery store, because delivery is working.  

But we do need to decide about a few things.  It's not fair to my youngest that he keeps asking and asking and has no idea if we're going to say yes or no.  

I think the hardest decisions for me are about my youngest.  He clearly needs lots of exercise, and time with people who aren't grieving to get through this.  For exercise, the aunts and uncles and the college age cousin are stepping up.  There have been lots of bike rides, and basketball, and wrestling in the backyard.  I think that, with masks and hand sanitizer after, we'll probably continue all of that, and hope that it's safe.  

The second part is harder for me.  We've been letting our boys see a pair of brothers that are friends, only outdoors with masks, only playing in socially distanced ways, and only with adult supervision.  But I'm not sure where to go from there.  Masks and outdoors seems obvious, but do we allow them to play with more than just those 2 friends?  To play when an adult isn't there to watch them?  To go to the park?  To play games like basketball and football when social distancing isn't possible?  What about something like the church playground after outdoor mass?  

You know, it’s ok to say that “I can’t decide these things right now. Let’s just do x y and z  for the time being and well reevaluate in 6-8 weeks.” 

[Drama Llama]

Just now, fairfarmhand said:

You know, it’s ok to say that “I can’t decide these things right now. Let’s just do x y and z  for the time being and well reevaluate in 6-8 weeks.” 

If my 10 year old is begging to go outside and play with friends, I have to decide.  I can decide yes or I can decide no, but he needs an answer.   And I need an answer that can be the same every day, so I'm not paralyzed by the question.  

Other decisions, I don't have to make. We can just keep doing as we've been doing.  

[Katy]

What does your DH think about DS10 playing with friends?

[fairfarmhand]

1 minute ago, BaseballandHockey said:

If my 10 year old is begging to go outside and play with friends, I have to decide.  I can decide yes or I can decide no, but he needs an answer.   And I need an answer that can be the same every day, so I'm not paralyzed by the question.  

Other decisions, I don't have to make. We can just keep doing as we've been doing.  

Canvyou say “you can play with these particular friends outdoors with supervision (or whatever parameters you decide are acceptable) for the next month and we’ll talk in a few weeks.” 
 

I get it. I’m sick to death of having to think through these things and weigh risks. And I haven’t experienced and kind of horrible loss like you have. 

[Drama Llama]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

You may have already done this since I know that you were very careful about all illnesses.  But I would put getting flu shots as a priority for the entire extended family:  your FIL, your Dh's siblings and families as well as your own nuclear family.  The reasoning behind this is to vaccinate for what you can so that at least you are cutting down the fall/winter viruses that can attack besides just COVID19. 

Bike riding is very low risk in my opinion.  So is walking outside where there are good air currents. 

Could your hockey loving son get some rink time when the rink is almost empty - just to get some skating in and exercise? 

 

Yep we all got flu shots.  

I think hockey is a hard no.  At the point when I stopped paying attention, we knew the virus did better in cold environments, so indoor, contact sport, and freezing cold?  That seems like a no.  Even indoor basketball or something would be better.  Luckily we don't get a lot of snow, so he can play roller hockey with his brother and the neighbors in the driveway. 

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

What does your DH think about DS10 playing with friends?

He is deferring to me.  

[Katy]

Has DS10 shown himself to be otherwise responsible?  If you ask him to keep on a mask and wash his hands, will he?

[Drama Llama]

2 hours ago, brehon said:

How is your church handling confession right now? If you/your family aren’t comfortable with current practices, would the priest be willing to take some extra precautions for your GFIL? How is Communion handled?

I think you can include the other siblings and spouses in get-togethers. It may just look different — masked, outdoors, etc.

And it’s completely normal to feel everything you’re feeling and not know how to handle everything. Just know that there is no perfect in these times, muddling through is just fine. 

Our priest was at our house the evening after my son died, and everyone spent some time alone with them.  I assume that those of us who felt the need for reconciliation took advantage of that time then.  I think if we asked he'd come back again.  My middle son took a lot of comfort from religion, and our priest spent a lot of time with him, visiting in our home before COVID, and then virtually.  He has been a wonderful support for us.

As far as communion, it's a single file line, 6 feet between families.  We put the kids and Pop in the middle so they're much more than 6 feet from anyone else.  You wear a mask, take the host from the masked priest, and then step away before consuming it.  It's about as safe as possible, I think.  

I think what I'm going to propose is that we do the outdoor mass only, and then if there are several weeks in a row when weather prevents that, we do a weekday mass. We went to a weekday mass a few days after he died, and in a sanctuary that seats hundreds, there were only a handful of people.  I think that's better than Sunday mornings, when there's social distancing and masks but still lots of people.  I'm not sure how that suggestion will go over, but it's the suggestion I'm going to make.  

[Katy]

What does your intuition say?

[Drama Llama]

11 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Canvyou say “you can play with these particular friends outdoors with supervision (or whatever parameters you decide are acceptable) for the next month and we’ll talk in a few weeks.” 
 

I get it. I’m sick to death of having to think through these things and weigh risks. And I haven’t experienced and kind of horrible loss like you have. 

Well yes, but that's why I started this thread, because I don't know what those parameters should be.  

I think that we can always add, but that taking away things we have allowed will be hard.  My kids know that when their uncle goes back to work on Monday, there will be changes there, but otherwise, I'd rather err on the side of caution and not take privileges back.  

[KathyBC]

8 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Yep we all got flu shots.  

I think hockey is a hard no.  At the point when I stopped paying attention, we knew the virus did better in cold environments, so indoor, contact sport, and freezing cold?  That seems like a no.  Even indoor basketball or something would be better.  Luckily we don't get a lot of snow, so he can play roller hockey with his brother and the neighbors in the driveway. 

Just a thought, maybe check in to how your organization is doing hockey. Here, there is no contact, no face offs, no away games - it's essentially modified practices and house games.  Major limits on numbers and spacing for dressing rooms, lobby, bleachers, even how many on the ice and on the benches. But yeah, recirculated indoor air does seem like no.

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

What does your intuition say?

My intuition says to never let my children out of my sight, even for a second, and to wrap them in bubble wrap forever.  

Clearly my intuition is broken and not taking my children's mental health into account.  

[Moonhawk]

22 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

The second part is harder for me.  We've been letting our boys see a pair of brothers that are friends, only outdoors with masks, only playing in socially distanced ways, and only with adult supervision.  But I'm not sure where to go from there.  Masks and outdoors seems obvious, but do we allow them to play with more than just those 2 friends?  To play when an adult isn't there to watch them?  To go to the park?  To play games like basketball and football when social distancing isn't possible?  What about something like the church playground after outdoor mass?  

Okay, I'm answering this with "certainty", but obviously it's all just suggestions. To me, this would be acceptable risk-wise in the situation:

Those two friends only, no adult supervision necessary so long as outdoors.

No other friends UNLESS you can be sure of their family's approach to stuff, but I've found it tiring to figure out (and then find out later that "safe" meant maskless farmers markets) so that's why I stopped neighbor kids.

Park is okay, just leave if it gets too crowded (you may want to scout this before getting kids hopes up, or have a backup plan of ice cream or something). Masks if other kids are around, long sleeves, and hand sanitizer afterwards. When going inside house, strip long sleeves and pants. Optional shower; my shower is broken right now LOL so I can't fairly require this of others 🙂. 

I'd say no to basketball and football at this point, risk is going up both with contact, heavy-breathing-proximity and with ball-sharing. Obviously ok with bubble people.

Church playground same as park.

[Halftime Hope]

5 hours ago, PeterPan said:

 

 

To add to PeterPan's reply, I am exposed to about 30-35 individuals daily as I'm on receptionist duty. Masking is required, but honestly masking is a joke--people coming into the office are not serious about reducing transmission.  (I'm calling it "pandemic theatrics", at this point.)  I used to be able to air out my reception area, and the science behind the recommendation to ventilate well is solid.  The US is not set up for that well at all, so I think I'll be buying some portable HEPA-rated air filters, probably MERV17s, and I need to look at the science regarding UV light units. (Note: I'm talking about due diligence before buying, not just falling for an ad.)  

To strengthen your 90 year-old (making him/her stronger to fend off the virus), an easy thing to do is 1) prophylactic vitamins and supplements and 2) masking to lower the load of viral exposure.  MedCram has an early video (#52 or 56?0 on what Dr. Seheult himself takes, and it is all evidence based. The additional study evidence for high levels of D mounts daily, and zinc plus any number of OTC ionophores (EMIQ iso-quercitrin, EgCg, CoQ10, or all of the above) -- any or all of those are good choices.  Melatonin is marvelous for the immune system at low levels, as is exercise. 

Another consideration is having an outpatient treatment plan, to help the 90 year-old fight the virus if needed:  I would find a doctor or PA willing to give early meds to treat the virus in the office, and become a patient of record of theirs.  You need them to take into account all the prior medical conditions of your loved one.  (I would be present at that initial consultation and be sure that the physician doesn't mentally shrug and sigh, just because your loved one is elderly.) There are several different treatment protocols that are being used in outpatient settings with success:  1) nebulized steroids (local, not systemic), plus either of the next two options, 

or 2) ivermectin+doxyclycline,

or 3) HCQ+zinc+a macrolide,

or 4) a bromhexine/famotidine/curucumin cocktail.

The doctors using these are treating patients who are newly diagnosed, and well as treating patients who've had illness for awhile and aren't getting better. (That part is a mystery to me, because most of these combinations are anti-viral (except the nebulized steroids), and studies have shown that the virus is pretty much all dead by days 11-13.)

AND possibly steroids or home 02 when needed.

The key is to get medical help early in the viral stage of the disease to dampen viral replication, not wait until the fire of secondary inflammation is raging.   

Since meals and exposure during them is a valid concern in your family, I would want social distancing and possibly using air filtration.  I read a study recently in which the single activity that statistically correlated with spreading events was eating in restaurants.  Indoor meetings and gatherings nearly made the statistical cut-off, but not quite.  

I also think it would help to set realistic expectations for the family meal gatherings with your elder.  These are not going to be "chat casually and snuggle up to people in close proximity" events like they might have in prior years.  In fact, one on one Facetime sessions might be better for having meaningful time with individual family members.  Large group events tend to be loud and hard for elderly to hear, and it's downright dangerous in areas with high positivity rates, for an elderly person to have their head close to someone else, trying to hear them, while that person is talking loudly trying to be heard.  (Trust me: that's what happens when people can't hear, they come closer!)

Finally, make sure that everyone eating knows to eat quickly then pull up their masks.  Eat in one area, preferably on it's own ventilation, then relocate everyone with their masks to a different area, immediately after the meal, for chatting.

That's what I've got. I hope it helps.  Much love and wisdom as you are in this difficult transition stage, trying to meet everyone's various needs. 

[Halftime Hope]

7 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

My intuition says to never let my children out of my sight, even for a second, and to wrap them in bubble wrap forever.  

Clearly my intuition is broken and not taking my children's mental health into account.  

That sounds like a perfectly normal mental state for what you've been through; clearly it's not so good for the kids, but it's a normal, natural response.  I'm just saying that "I'm OK" is an important part of making it through each day, when you have to, then, do things outside your comfort zone, like unwrap the bubble wrap.  ❤️ 

[Not_a_Number]

29 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Well yes, but that's why I started this thread, because I don't know what those parameters should be.  

I think that we can always add, but that taking away things we have allowed will be hard.  My kids know that when their uncle goes back to work on Monday, there will be changes there, but otherwise, I'd rather err on the side of caution and not take privileges back.  

I think that's wise. 

[fairfarmhand]

32 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Well yes, but that's why I started this thread, because I don't know what those parameters should be.  

I think that we can always add, but that taking away things we have allowed will be hard.  My kids know that when their uncle goes back to work on Monday, there will be changes there, but otherwise, I'd rather err on the side of caution and not take privileges back.  

Aha! I missed that. Sorry.

How respectful will your neighbors be if you gently ask some questions? Like "Id love to have the kids play some outdoors together, but would it be possible to text me if you have anyone with any kind of cold symptoms in the house?" Don't know that I'd use the words "Covid Symptoms" because we all know they're so similar (until they're not). So many people may be certain "It's just a cold." when it could be or I could be Covid. 

If you have neighbors who are trustworthy enough that you feel ok that they;ll tell you or keep their kids in, then that would help decide stuff. I'd be ok with outdoors stuff with neighbor kids, particularly if they let you know if someone has a sore throat or something. 

[frogger]

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

He is deferring to me.  

My husband does this too. I love him. I think he believes I know more about it, which is probably true but it is so exhausting. 

Grief is exhausting on top of that. I'm so sorry that you lost your son. 😥 

I wish I could be more help but everything is so personal with these decisions.

 

I'm sorry. This is all so hard.

Edited October 10, 2020 by frogger

[Ottakee]

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

We have connected with a grief counselor.  Right now, only DH and I have seen her, because I think what the kids need most is for us to be a little more stable.  But long term, the idea is that she'll work with them.  They also have groups and camps for when the kids are ready.

That is awesome.  My guy went to the grief camp about 5-6 months later and that was good timing for him.

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Yep we all got flu shots.  

I think hockey is a hard no.  At the point when I stopped paying attention, we knew the virus did better in cold environments, so indoor, contact sport, and freezing cold?  That seems like a no.  Even indoor basketball or something would be better.  Luckily we don't get a lot of snow, so he can play roller hockey with his brother and the neighbors in the driveway. 

Yes I agree.  I was going to say ice hockey may be best to avoid for now till we know more given the questions over survival on frozen surfaces.  
 

I’m so sorry for all you’re dealing with right now.  

[Drama Llama]

18 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Aha! I missed that. Sorry.

How respectful will your neighbors be if you gently ask some questions? Like "Id love to have the kids play some outdoors together, but would it be possible to text me if you have anyone with any kind of cold symptoms in the house?" Don't know that I'd use the words "Covid Symptoms" because we all know they're so similar (until they're not). So many people may be certain "It's just a cold." when it could be or I could be Covid. 

If you have neighbors who are trustworthy enough that you feel ok that they;ll tell you or keep their kids in, then that would help decide stuff. I'd be ok with outdoors stuff with neighbor kids, particularly if they let you know if someone has a sore throat or something. 

My neighbors with the two kids are really good people.    They  were good about those things when it was just flu we worried about.  I am sure I don’t need to ask, but I might start so that my kids hear me asking and build the habit.  

But their Dad’s a doctor, and their kids are in school.  So, even if I know they will tell us, there is still a risk of asymptomatic spread.  Having said that, I think that interaction is too important to stop.

[DawnM]

I see my 85 year old father weekly since he moved to NC in June.   I also have to go to work every day, in a middle school.   I wear a mask but I am worn out!

We did take a trip to the beach as a family for a week and I went to the beach with my friends who are part of my bubble.

We are careful but not isolating anymore at all.  Some of my extended family are still isolating and we are respecting their choices.

Hugs.

[Acadie]

Something we did with my parents, who are in their 80s, was to take out old photo albums and go through them together outdoors. I actually paged through the album, with my teens seated near me, and would hold it up to ask my parents who people in the pictures were, or ask leading questions (whose answers I often knew) so that my girls could hear my parents' stories. I learned a lot too, and I know my parents really enjoyed it. 

Wondering if something like that would appeal to your family. Or maybe Grandpa just wants to hug his grand babies. 

[Catwoman]

I’m glad to see you back on the forum, but I’m so sorry about your son. I know you weren’t asking for condolences, but I couldn’t not say something about it, because I think we all felt like we kind of “knew” him in a way, and he sounded like such a kind and sweet boy. Your loss is unimaginable, and I hope you will give yourself some grace if you’re not feeling like the perfect, decisive parent right now. 

We are still being super-cautious, but maybe you can get your 10yo to wear a mask so he can play with a few friends. It wouldn’t even have to be the perfect mask if the kids were always outdoors — it still has to be breathable so he can wear it comfortably. My main reason for the mask is safety, but I’m also thinking that if your son wears some kind of mask when he is playing, he won’t blame himself if someone in the family ever contracts Covid.

Praying for your family.

[frogger]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yes I agree.  I was going to say ice hockey may be best to avoid for now till we know more given the questions over survival on frozen surfaces.  
 

I’m so sorry for all you’re dealing with right now.  

Forget frozen surfaces, locker rooms are atrocious. There have been a multitude of outbreaks from hockey. It's hard to get rid of locker rooms for hockey due to the type and amount of gear they wear. No one drives to the rink outfitted for hockey. Skiing, baseball, etc you can just show up in uniform. 

[KathyBC]

19 minutes ago, frogger said:

Forget frozen surfaces, locker rooms are atrocious. There have been a multitude of outbreaks from hockey. It's hard to get rid of locker rooms for hockey due to the type and amount of gear they wear. No one drives to the rink outfitted for hockey. Skiing, baseball, etc you can just show up in uniform. 

Actually yes, players are being asked to show up dressed and use the dressings rooms, a few at a time, to lace on their skates only. It's gotta be a challenge if you live far from the rink, I'm not sure if I had young kids again whether I could pull it off. (No siblings allowed either, which would have been a deal breaker way back when.)

[frogger]

Just now, KathyBC said:

Actually yes, players are being asked to show up dressed and use the dressings rooms, a few at a time, to lace on their skates only. It's gotta be a challenge if you live far from the rink, I'm not sure if I had young kids again whether I could pull it off. (No siblings allowed either, which would have been a deal breaker way back when.)

That would be great. Too bad it didn't happen here. 😞

 

 

[itsheresomewhere]

We are not as cautious as most here but more than others around me.  I don’t wipe down groceries.  I do have two who are high risk and one more than the other.  But one of my kids has mental health needs that are suffering with the lockdown.  So I am having to balance things while attempting to meet her needs.  I would let him play with his friends. If they are not going to be riding bikes or something that puts them a distance from each other, then mask up.     Would a schedule of you can play these days and these days are off days help both of you? 
 

Here, I am allowing her to play ice hockey as our rules are strict. No locker rooms so the kids are dressing in the parking lot/car including skates and no parents in the building ( they have a private thing like zoom so you can watch them through the link). Plus, the place is really on top of things including making parents understand that if they come to the place knowing the kid is sick, has been exposed or tested positive, you are removed. It is really only practice but it is fulling a need.  While some might see it as reckless, I need to keep her mental health in the front right now.  
 

Hugs to you and the family.  I know it is hard right now and you just want to grab each other and hold on. Just remember you will get through this together as I know it seems so hard right now but you will.  

[Guest]

I’m the highest risk person in my household. I have really good masks, and am careful about hand washing and use air purifiers. I’m also on a ton of supplements and meds to try to keep my immune system as stable as possible (to the point that I am already taking most of what is prescribed for early-stage COVID all the time). It’s worth asking about testing blood levels for some of the more common things for high risk individuals and optimizing. 

 

 Because of anxiety/depression concerns, DD is now seeing her friends who have parents who are willing to allow get together some in person. We’ll reevaluate when it gets too cold to be outside, but right now, outside is an option. We did go to the memorial service for DD’s friend who died of COVID recently, because she needed it. I think that sometimes, it is necessary to take some risk to meet emotional needs. She has also done a couple of college tours and we’ll probably do more over the next months, because it both gives her the information she needs to make a decision-but, more importantly, it gives her a connection to a future to look forward to. You may need an equivalent for your kids now, too. 

 

 

[Acadie]

I apologize in advance if this has been discussed upthread, but how would you feel about telling your 10 yo that playing outside with a mask (on him) is okay? I completely understand your desire for a consistent policy and the difficulty of walking things back once you've permitted something. Not that you can't reverse course, but it makes it easier for you and your children if you don't have to do that. So I was trying to think of what might be a conservative way to start. 

Kids can accept it even if their peers aren't doing the same. 

 

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

I know if feels like the answer needs to be the same every day.  It feels like every question asked of you is enormous and you want something that you don't have to think about.

But, it doesn't have to be the same every day.  Sometimes it can be "yes, go play."  Sometimes it can be "no, mommy's not comfortable with it today, please just go read a book."  Sometimes it can even be "I don't know, go ask dad" (or grandpa or whoever is there and available to ask) and let them be the decision maker for you.  

One reason the answer doesn't have to be the same every day is that the question isn't really the same every day.  What the kids are doing, who all is involved, where they are, how long they are playing together....those things are going to be different each time.  

I hear you on this, but I think we need to take into account that this is a little boy who is grieving, and scared, and confused by the behavior of the adults around him.   It takes a lot of wisdom for him to know what might help him feel better (something that the adults in the family are struggling with) and courage for him to approach me and ask a question that he knows might make me cry.  And his brother, who is reacting  more like me and is terrified of covid, is watching my face to see if it's safe for little brother to go play.  

I also think that if the rules were clear, he could work within the rules.  He's a really extroverted assertive kid, and he's quite capable of calling someone up and saying "My mom says you can come play if you wear a mask, and go back to your own house if you want to use the bathroom" or whatever but he needs to know where those lines are.  

 

[Spy Car]

My sincerest condolences.

Bill

[Drama Llama]

46 minutes ago, Acadie said:

I apologize in advance if this has been discussed upthread, but how would you feel about telling your 10 yo that playing outside with a mask (on him) is okay? I completely understand your desire for a consistent policy and the difficulty of walking things back once you've permitted something. Not that you can't reverse course, but it makes it easier for you and your children if you don't have to do that. So I was trying to think of what might be a conservative way to start. 

Kids can accept it even if their peers aren't doing the same. 

 

Oh yeah, he's not playing outside without a mask, unless the only people in the yard live with us.  

[Drama Llama]

51 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I will offer one last suggestion because I don't want you to feel like I am arguing or trying to beat you down or anything when you are dealing with something so difficult.

It can be healthy for kids to see and learn that grief doesn't really play by rules.  

I don't feel like the bolded.  I appreciate everyone's thoughts and ideas.

But even though I'm worried about everything right now, I'm not worried about my kids thinking that grief is simple or that it isn't messy.  I can pretty much guarantee that they're learning a lot about grief.  

[mominco]

I am so very sorry ! I wondered where you were, We are still super cautious due to DS's immune issues so I'm afraid I cannot help much(((hugs))) op.

[Katy]

I don't think your intuition is broken.  I think your intuition is saying let him play, and your anxiety and grief is saying no.  I think with a 10 year old I would be really honest. Tell him you're afraid to let him go play, and you don't know how much this is reasonable wisdom in a pandemic, and how much it's your grief interfering.  So right now the answer is no, but "I'm creating a reminder right here in my phone" to talk about it again in 10 days.

At some point in the next 3 months I would make a choice to listen to my intuition instead of my anxiety.  I mean I'd make him stay OUTSIDE to play, and wear a happy mask and when he came inside go straight to the shower to scrub down with antibacterial soap, but I think I'd let him go.  And I'd stick to your completely reasonable plan of outdoor or weekday mass until something else felt reasonable.

I think for now the science is that indoors is super dangerous, and outside less so.  Most transmission is airborne.

[wathe]

We are very cautious.  This is how we've handled in-person socializing, for what it's worth:

We have 3 families we've spent time with regularly since June or so.  Strictly outdoors only.  We set up 2 tables, at least 2m apart (I measure!).  Each family has their own table for eating/snacks or sitting and talking.  May not enter the other family's table space.  If you are sitting at your table, you may remove your mask.  Otherwise, masked for playing together outside.  The kids try their best to maintain distance while playing - it's imperfect, but pretty good.   We have a bathroom off the foyer that gets wiped down and is reserved for guests' use for the duration of their visit.  Guest enter the house (masked) to use the washroom only, while everybody else stays outside.  There is strictly absolutely no gathering or socializing inside the house - I am a adamant about this.  If the weather is rainy, I set up in the carport (fully open on 3 sides and breezy, equivalent to outdoor space as far as I am concerned).  I've bought a propane patio heater, with the intention of keeping this routine up through our Canadian winter.  Everyone agrees on the rules and follows them.  We've successfully shared meals this way, and even played D&D with some sense of normalcy. 

We have not allowed random neighbourhood play, even if outside.  I need to know that my kids are interacting with others who are as serious about Covid as I am, and I know the neighbours aren't.

We have restarted swimming lessons: Private lessons (only the instructor and us in the pool), first lesson of the day.  The instructor is masked the entire time, and teaches from the deck from a distance.

We have declined participation all other indoor sports (for us, that's gymnastics and volleyball).

We have maintained good momentum with our scouting group virtually only. 

[Drama Llama]

7 hours ago, Katy said:

Has DS10 shown himself to be otherwise responsible?  If you ask him to keep on a mask and wash his hands, will he?

I missed this.  He's not perfect, we had some incidences of trying to sneak into friends houses in the winter when the rule was no playing indoors.  

But I think that he's had a pretty significant lesson in the fact that bad things really can happen.  And he loves his great grandfather.  I think he could easily forget and tackle someone in a game, or otherwise break the 6 foot rule, but he wouldn't do something intentional like go in someone's house, or take off his mask.  

 

ETA: His brother is super responsible, probably too responsible. So, if I send them together, he'll make sure little brother toes the line. 

[Katy]

I think I'd let him play, given that you trust him.   I haven't had that kind of grief so I can't say for certain how long it would take for me to get there.

For context of how careful we are, we don't go anywhere but walks, drives and contact-less grocery pickup.  We have one kid that is high risk and to the best of our knowledge the rest are average.

[matrips]

We are cautious but doing stuff.  This after not leaving the neighborhood even until July.  

The essential needs for me to have my family go to school or church or out are: masks, hand washing, change clothes after a day out (school/work), get outside as often as possible, and a strict daily regimen of supplements that include Quercetin, zinc, D, magnesium and others.  If someone feels a bit off, then extra Quercetin and zinc and a NAC.  And Emergen C and rest.  I have one very tired teen today that I’m concerned about.  It’s unusual tiredness, so I’m upping his supplements.

I think the supplements help, as does acting at the first sign of something off. Any kids activities have been outside.  

For your family, if you can do outdoor gatherings, with masks, I’d definitely be okay with that.  With extra distancing.  I’d let my son play outside and ride a bike.  

I’d talk to my doctors and FIL doctors to get a plan together if there is an onset of covid.  What would they prescribe?  I believe in early meds to reduce viral replication, rather than just waiting it out.  See what they’re on board with. 

I get your FiL.  He knows he’s old and he doesn’t want to spend it in a bubble.  He wants to enjoy his last years and love his family.

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by matrips

[Drama Llama]

Thanks!
 

[matrips]

I realized the quote the second I posted it 🤦‍♀️  I tried to get it deleted before anyone noticed, but you were quick :)

[slackermom]

In my own 2 person household (me and my 16 yo) we are pretty cautious about interacting with the outside world. We try to combine safety measures. Masks PLUS 6 feet, not masks OR 6 feet. We even practiced spatial awareness in the kitchen using the floor tiles, noting that 2 people on tiles 6 feet apart became 4 feet apart just by leaning forward a little.

We have 2 levels of masks, some with built in filters (for when we intend to interact with others), and a bunch of 2-ply cotton masks (for when we don't intent to interact, but just in case, like when we are taking out the trash, getting the mail, or out walking). All of the masks are fitted with nose wires, and most have elastic that wraps around the head for a snug fit.

I do a weekly grocery shop online and have it brought to my car in the parking lot. I quarantine food rather than wash it. I have an old frig I use for that, since when I got the new one in April, Home Depot wasn't doing haul-away.  I rotate stuff into the new frig before I go to pick up the new stuff, and then the new bags go right into the old frig and then I wash up. I occasionally do a Target pickup, but mostly I have stuff shipped to me.

My teen does school online, and a hybrid dance program, a combo of zoom and in person no-contact dance class. At dance class everyone is masked, but they can take it off briefly to drink water at their individually assigned break spots, which are spread out though out the very large ballroom. That's still pushing it for us, but it seems a reasonable balance.

So, all that said, probably more relevant to your situation:

Someone whose bubble intersects with mine is an actual epidemiologist and she has an 11 year old son (who is an only child). His school is online right now, and the kid is not doing any organized sports. She occasionally lets her son get together with a couple of kids at a time when they are all masked. Good masks that stay on. Typically an adult monitors their no-contact activities, like riding scooters or playing eye-spy. Usually they are outside, but sometimes briefly inside, though their house is very spacious and well ventilated. Shoes come off at the door and hands get washed. 

They put a big effort into redoing their yard this year so people could sit outside to socialize, installing a large recessed patio with built in electrical outlets and room for a fire fixture in the middle. They have several little tables so people can eat but be spread apart. They even installed a pull down projection screen on a porch so people can watch movies out there.

[Drama Llama]

14 hours ago, wathe said:

I've bought a propane patio heater,

Can you tell me more about this?  How safe is it with impulsive or younger kids around?  How much work?  Do you think it would heat things well enough for the 90 year (he's a pretty tough 90 year old) to eat or socialize outside when it's around freezing?

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, parent said:

Treatments are better now, death rate is lower, etc.

I feel like a jerk saying this, but I haven't seen evidence of this 😕 . I hope to see evidence of it soon, but I'm not seeing it. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I feel like a jerk saying this, but I haven't seen evidence of this 😕 . I hope to see evidence of it soon, but I'm not seeing it. 

I don't think that is being a jerk.  It's just stating the truth.  We have dropped some treatments like immediately putting people on ventilators and have some new protocols but a lot is still really comfort care and breathing support while hoping that the body deals with the virus on it's own.  

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Jean in Newcastle said:

I don't think that is being a jerk.  It's just stating the truth.  We have dropped some treatments like immediately putting people on ventilators and have some new protocols but a lot is still really comfort care and breathing support while hoping that the body deals with the virus on it's own.  

But I understand the hope that things are better now. Frankly, I was hoping that they WOULD be better by now back in the spring. And some hospital data does support that more people are doing well, but my personal take on this is that we're simply treating different patients in hospitals than we were in the spring. I'm getting here via the IFR calculations from the summer and the stubborn strong correlation between positivity rates and death rates 2 weeks later... 

This one's debatable, anyway. But it's at the very least not obvious that we're doing better now. 

Sorry, this is a longer discussion 😞 . Just chiming in with my pessimism, sigh. 

[Drama Llama]

From my perspective, whether or not there has been some improvement, there hasn't been a change in the fact that this is a devastating disease for 90 year olds, and we'd really really rather he didn't get it.  I also have a 13 year old and an 8 year old niece with asthma, and those statistics have been more reassuring.  It's possible that if was just making decisions with the goal of protecting them, I'd be more relaxed.  But 90 years old + covid is definitely not a winning combination.  

 

 

[Drama Llama]

Can we actually move the conversation about whether covid is getting worse or better somewhere else?  

[Denise in IN]

I don't have any advice for the situation, but just want to express my sympathy in the loss of your son.  Praying for peace and comfort for you and your family.