The Rock, and why I’m sick of being considered overly cautious

[Carrie12345]

Dwayne Johnson and his family all got the rona from a close friend who doesn’t know how he or she got it.

I don’t understand how there are people (including some in my house) who feel like “close friends” aren’t just as risky as (if not more than) random strangers. Your feelings for a person may make you more inclined to take the risk, but it doesn’t reduce it.  At least not in and of itself.

I’m feeling extra sensitive these days, as the friends I love the most tend to have the opinion that if we got together once under certain circumstances, we may as well get together more frequently under all sorts of circumstances.  There seems to be a mash up of “If we didn’t get it yesterday, we won’t get it tomorrow” and “if we get it, we get it.”  And the focus is entirely on individual risk, and not the concept of spreading it beyond our circle.

Oh, I guess I’m also extra sensitive because my stepfather is about to undergo cancer treatment and now other family members are annoyed with my mom for having them skip a party. 😑 

Or I’m extra sensitive because we had such a close call with my daughters’ close friend.

Or I just realize that magical thinking isn’t helpful.

[EmilyGF]

I feel similarly. There's definitely exhaustion and fatalism going around here.

My parents are moving close-ish next month. Right now, they live a four-hour plane flight away. Afterwards, they will live a four-hour drive away. I'm nervous because I want to see them, but I also know that loving them and being related doesn't make the chance of virus transmission less. And now I have to think about what that ought to look like. Do we visit and mask? Do we only see them outside (but then where do we stay as they are buying a house big enough for us to stay at, but how do we do that safely?)?

Emily

[Tenaj]

I understand!  My mother is insisting on a Labor Day family get-together.  When I expressed my caution, first my mom responded that she is watching everyone else in their neighborhood and group of friends having big get-togethers and she doesn't understand why  we can't and then my brother responded that he's been going to graduation parties, everyone stay apart and it's been no big deal.  They live in a rural county that has a very low, but growing, covid rate.

I suggested that if she wants to have a gathering that we only do half the family (if everyone comes we are looking at about 50 people).  She didn't like that.  I asked how she was planning to handle this meal and she is planning for the food to be served from the garage and everyone to be outside.  I told her we would consider coming for a while but that everyone there needed to agree to the social distancing requirements.  I have received no answer.  We haven't seen them since February or so.  They live two hours away.  We live in an area that has been going "red" off and on plus we have a lot of exposure because of teens, sports, school and work.

I'm so over this!  I'm at the point of praying that someone in our immediate family gets a cold or something so we'll have an excuse not to go.  My mother is VERY vulnerable.  She gets pneumonia everytime she catches anything.  She's had a mitro-valve replacement so she's on blood thinners, has high blood pressure and diabetes (that she ignores).  But I'm the bad guy in the family because I'm trying to protect her.

[Catwoman]

14 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

I believe some here have mentioned visiting relatives when both parties agree to strictly quarantine for 2-3 weeks prior to the visit. If you can do that and trust your folks to do the same, you could have a safe visit. You’d first have to agree on what a strict quarantine actually looks like, though. As in, no, just running into COSTCO is not an acceptable quarantine activity. 😂

 

That is so true!!!

Also, people lie. Most people probably aren’t trying to put anyone at risk; they just don’t believe that there actually is a risk, and they want to get together with their their more cautious friends and relatives who they think are “paranoid” or “scared” or “sheeple,” so they feel justified in not mentioning that trip to Costco or to church or to restaurants or to friends’ homes for indoor visits. 

It is maddening.

[TheReader]

Agreeing. We had a panic moment a month-ish or two ago when my youngest randomly had a fever and headache. Now, he gets that exact combo a few times a year, so in other times than this, I wouldn't have even blinked. BUT, he'd been at the dentist and haircut and had our one single "we are allowing this" activity all within the timeframe of "could have been exposed." 

So, we isolated, tested, waited (he was negative), but no one understood why we were even concerned. 

My mom had to evacuate for the recent hurricane (it missed her area, thank goodness) and she's lately acquired a boyfriend (who's in law enforcement) and so we had to politely but firmly explain that we would happily pay for a hotel for her, and bring her meals, but she couldn't stay in our house b/c her recent behavior hasn't been safe. :sigh:

My neighbors are all discussing what to do for Halloween, and the convo ranges from "hope your kids can catch candy in their bucket from 10 feet away" to "dang Corona ain't stealing another thing from us! We are T-or-T'ing like normal!!" 

Now, for the record, we are allowing one particular gathering with close friends....but it's not the "close friends" aspect that makes them safe, it's the "also following strict social distancing guidelines themselves" aspect.  And we're there on the cumulative exposure thing too....now that I'm teaching in person (small co-op, many guidelines in place, masked, etc.), I'm super extra limiting my other exposures (both for myself and the safety of my students). 

I'm so over all the people who don't get it. I had a co-teacher yesterday venting about all the ridiculous mask wearing for about 15 mins yesterday. :sigh: 

[TheReader]

Just now, Seasider too said:

This is sadly true. It’s another exercise in mental gymnastics - calling someone for a cordial phone chat, hoping maybe you can meet up, and letting them talk long enough to reveal all their recent exposures. 
 

I am going into my stores about once a week, so I’m not exposure-free. But I am all about the mask, hand sanitizer, space, close quarters, avoiding crowds, not gathering indoors, etc, etc. That’s a far cry from many who are meeting up regularly with friends in their homes or at restaurants where “we only take our masks off to eat!”

 

ugh, yes, this too. 

My mom tried to tell me she's "being careful" -- she's dating. Dating a law enforcement officer, who has (by nature of his job) contact with the public. A lot.

She "always wears a mask in public" -- but takes it down off her nose/mouth to talk to people in stores (I've been with her when she does this). 

She "only goes out to eat a little" -- a few times a month. We're still only doing take-out, and even at that, aiming for places that will do curbside delivery to your car. 

She visits with friends, neighbors, etc, in close quarters, w/o masks. 

It's mind boggling and exhausting sorting through the different levels of who is doing what.

[Sneezyone]

31 minutes ago, TheReader said:

Agreeing. We had a panic moment a month-ish or two ago when my youngest randomly had a fever and headache. Now, he gets that exact combo a few times a year, so in other times than this, I wouldn't have even blinked. BUT, he'd been at the dentist and haircut and had our one single "we are allowing this" activity all within the timeframe of "could have been exposed." 

So, we isolated, tested, waited (he was negative), but no one understood why we were even concerned. 

My mom had to evacuate for the recent hurricane (it missed her area, thank goodness) and she's lately acquired a boyfriend (who's in law enforcement) and so we had to politely but firmly explain that we would happily pay for a hotel for her, and bring her meals, but she couldn't stay in our house b/c her recent behavior hasn't been safe. :sigh:

My neighbors are all discussing what to do for Halloween, and the convo ranges from "hope your kids can catch candy in their bucket from 10 feet away" to "dang Corona ain't stealing another thing from us! We are T-or-T'ing like normal!!" 

Now, for the record, we are allowing one particular gathering with close friends....but it's not the "close friends" aspect that makes them safe, it's the "also following strict social distancing guidelines themselves" aspect.  And we're there on the cumulative exposure thing too....now that I'm teaching in person (small co-op, many guidelines in place, masked, etc.), I'm super extra limiting my other exposures (both for myself and the safety of my students). 

I'm so over all the people who don't get it. I had a co-teacher yesterday venting about all the ridiculous mask wearing for about 15 mins yesterday. :sigh: 

 

We will be leaving a bucket on the porch with the light on for families who want to come by and grab something. Dassit. LOL.

[Sammish]

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

I don’t understand how there are people (including some in my house) who feel like “close friends” aren’t just as risky as (if not more than) random strangers. Your feelings for a person may make you more inclined to take the risk, but it doesn’t reduce it.  At least not in and of itself.

YES! This! My parents are particularly bad about this - "it's someone I know well, so they're "safe."" No! They're not! I've called them out on it a few times, and they eventually agree that I'm right, but then they keep doing it. 🤦‍♀️

They're also of the "we're quarantining, except for the trips to the store, helping out at the library, eating out, etc. etc." type. I dread talking to my mom these days, because I just don't want to hear about all the places she's been and the things they've done. 

[TheReader]

28 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

We will be leaving a bucket on the porch with the light on for families who want to come by and grab something. Dassit. LOL.

In my neighborhood, the first kid to come by would take the whole thing, sadly. 

I haven't decided what I'll do/not do.....I usually sit outside with a bucket and let kids get candy. So far I've thought of putting things into individual little bags so I just hand to kids, no kid hands touching anything (and wearing my mask/face shield combo while I do so). Not sure yet if I'll do it or not, though.....I may instead make some baggies and drop off with certain neighborhood kids I know personally, and keep our lights off this year. (I would porch drop off/contactless drop off). 

[Pam in CT]

Testing helps.

My three branches of NYC in-laws (varying degrees of isolation -- my SIL's whole family is still pretty locked down; my FIL has OT and PT services come in and other fairly frequent medical appointments; my BIL's household includes an EMT and a HCW who obviously have lots of exposure risk) have started getting tested on a fairly routine basis, before meeting up with us or others.  Of course in NYC testing is easily available, free, and results are back within 12 hours.  All of which makes it possible.  (My SIL was pretty nervous about her first nasal test but reports that it was "weird" but not actually "painful.")

Once the saliva test is available to the public, we'll use that before meeting up with my mother. That has a lot of potential in enabling Nearly Normal, but it's looking like costs will be a barrier to many.

[Carol in Cal.]

I’ve only been out to eat once, and that was at an isolated outdoor table in front of a Mexican restaurant.  Since February.

I only shop when I absolutely must, and only masked.  When I get home I usually take a shower immediately, and if that’s not practical I wash my hands and face very thoroughly.

I have a next door neighbor who thinks that I am more lax than she is.  She sprays all deliveries with Lysol, while I just set them aside for 2-3 days before opening them, for instance.  But she invited me to an outdoor 80th birthday party for a mutual friend, which I assumed would be fully masked with self-food only.  I went, and there were about 15 households represented, all eating potluck food, unmasked.  It was outside on a breezy day, so the viral load would have been lowish, but I was surprised that she would do that, and not all that comfortable being there myself—it was the highest risk thing I had done during the whole SIP period.  I mostly kept my mask on and left earlier than everyone else.  

Bottom line—everyone has different exceptions.  And they add up to risks that can multiply.  

 

[ktgrok]

I agree totally! 

We were talking about this yesterday at my house, and my 21 yr old sarcastically said, "but you can't get it from people you KNOW" and rolled his eyes. He sees it too. People who wear masks in public, then socialize with no distancing or masks at houses. 

And what also should be driving this home is the Rock is a healthy guy, fit and strong, and he says it was was a very very difficult illness. The hardest challenge he's had - and he's had a LOT in his life. 

[EKS]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I don’t understand how there are people (including some in my house) who feel like “close friends” aren’t just as risky as (if not more than) random strangers. Your feelings for a person may make you more inclined to take the risk, but it doesn’t reduce it.  At least not in and of itself.

It is because we are genetically programmed to view familiars as being less risky than strangers.

Edited September 3, 2020 by EKS

[SKL]

I think we weigh the risks and benefits of each interaction, and the benefits of being with loved ones is going to outweigh the risks at some point.  Also, there are real health risks of staying away from people.

I can tell you that my 13yo's health has been significantly and possibly permanently affected by being stuck at home for 4 months.  We are not going to stay away from friends indefinitely, regardless of whether they may or may not be exposed.  Call that whatever you want.

[mathnerd]

It is summer and these people have fabulous houses (I mean The Rock surely has a comfortable back yard or outside patios). I wonder what is wrong with having a socially distanced get-together with family while wearing masks, outdoors in your backyard or in your patio. I guess that it might work if people socialize with very strict parameters: like no taking off the masks, hand washing, socialize at 6 ft away outside at all times, no entering the house for using the bathroom or kitchen or watching TV, kids strictly told to stay 6 ft away from other kids etc. In my house, it would never work because I don't trust others to be as cautious as myself and I have a small house and getting a serious case of COVID could be highly disastrous (even fatal) to my family members. But, I can see it working for other families.

[Carol in Cal.]

I’m in CA where this time of the year it just does not rain.  I mean, almost never.  So it’s fairly easy to be cavalier about requiring everything to be outside here right now.  But come October or November when the rain starts or the temperature drops, and it’s going to be a different story.  And people are getting very sick of this now, and not even doing the outdoor stuff, most of them; so I’m expecting an exasperation-driven spike in infections when they start doing things inside that they won’t even do outside right now.  My husband is going to be teaching some of the only non-virtual classes in his university starting in a couple of weeks.  I have to admit that I’m very concerned about this.

[Carrie12345]

1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

Testing helps.

My three branches of NYC in-laws (varying degrees of isolation -- my SIL's whole family is still pretty locked down; my FIL has OT and PT services come in and other fairly frequent medical appointments; my BIL's household includes an EMT and a HCW who obviously have lots of exposure risk) have started getting tested on a fairly routine basis, before meeting up with us or others.  Of course in NYC testing is easily available, free, and results are back within 12 hours.  All of which makes it possible.  (My SIL was pretty nervous about her first nasal test but reports that it was "weird" but not actually "painful.")

Once the saliva test is available to the public, we'll use that before meeting up with my mother. That has a lot of potential in enabling Nearly Normal, but it's looking like costs will be a barrier to many.

We’re still in a situation where my EMT dd’s test cost us $100 and results took several days. So we couldn’t be certain she was clear for a few days. She could have tested negative because it didn’t “kick in” yet.  She could have caught it while waiting. She could have caught it after getting the results. She could catch it today while getting her car registered. 🤷‍♀️ 

 

[teachermom2834]

Just because someone chooses to do one risky thing doesn't mean they choose to do all the risky things.

I see my dad every two weeks for about two hours. He isn't careful so I know we are at risk. We try to distance as much as possible but, for various reasons I'm not going to defend here, we are taking on this risk two hours every two weeks with less than perfect precautions.

Now, if someone invites us to a movie outing and I decline saying I am not doing those things right now I might be met with a "but you see your dad!" 

My 17 yo ds works at a grocery store. He declined a birthday party invite that included a four hour round trip van ride with a bunch of people who are not practicing any precautions at all. He declined and the mom was pretty miffed. "But he is working!"

I guess I feel like while it would be best if people were just all careful and not taking risks, we would all be a heck of alot better off if people took fewer risks. Perfectly safe? Of course not! But I wish we could slow the spread by people just cutting back on their number of risky behaviors. Like if church is your thing and you won't give it up but you then laid low most of the rest of the week it would surely help some to slow things. But everyone is doing all the things and it seems to have been decided that if you have one point of exposure then you throw up your hands and decide there is no point in any precautions. 

[rebcoola]

Yeah it's so frustrating.  Our numbers are finally down and I would like to see friends.  Their just no way to feel comfortable with them knowing what they have been doing. Knowing they don't wear masks with close friends and family that adds up to 50+ people.   I am also supposed to be comfortable going to church because they mask for that.  You know the day after wine tasting in the next county maskless 🙄

Edited September 3, 2020 by rebcoola

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Dwayne Johnson and his family all got the rona from a close friend who doesn’t know how he or she got it.

I don’t understand how there are people (including some in my house) who feel like “close friends” aren’t just as risky as (if not more than) random strangers. Your feelings for a person may make you more inclined to take the risk, but it doesn’t reduce it.  At least not in and of itself.

I’m feeling extra sensitive these days, as the friends I love the most tend to have the opinion that if we got together once under certain circumstances, we may as well get together more frequently under all sorts of circumstances.  There seems to be a mash up of “If we didn’t get it yesterday, we won’t get it tomorrow” and “if we get it, we get it.”  And the focus is entirely on individual risk, and not the concept of spreading it beyond our circle.

Oh, I guess I’m also extra sensitive because my stepfather is about to undergo cancer treatment and now other family members are annoyed with my mom for having them skip a party. 😑 

Or I’m extra sensitive because we had such a close call with my daughters’ close friend.

Or I just realize that magical thinking isn’t helpful.

My husband thinks as your second paragraph indicates. When I talked about the baby shower and how I was glad I stopped by but also glad I did not plan to eat (because the lack of distance between people eating was unacceptable to me), he said something like that. “Well, you know all these people...” So What? My BIL even flatly stated a couple months ago, “We are not socially-distancing anymore and I don’t wear masks if its not required.” So at least some of those supposedly-safe people I know are disregarding precautions any time it is within their own control. So, no; knowing someone does not make them “safe” in my world, unless by knowing them I also know they are at least as cautious as I am. 

[kbutton]

50 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Just because someone chooses to do one risky thing doesn't mean they choose to do all the risky things.

I see my dad every two weeks for about two hours. He isn't careful so I know we are at risk. We try to distance as much as possible but, for various reasons I'm not going to defend here, we are taking on this risk two hours every two weeks with less than perfect precautions.

Now, if someone invites us to a movie outing and I decline saying I am not doing those things right now I might be met with a "but you see your dad!" 

My 17 yo ds works at a grocery store. He declined a birthday party invite that included a four hour round trip van ride with a bunch of people who are not practicing any precautions at all. He declined and the mom was pretty miffed. "But he is working!"

I guess I feel like while it would be best if people were just all careful and not taking risks, we would all be a heck of alot better off if people took fewer risks. Perfectly safe? Of course not! But I wish we could slow the spread by people just cutting back on their number of risky behaviors. Like if church is your thing and you won't give it up but you then laid low most of the rest of the week it would surely help some to slow things. But everyone is doing all the things and it seems to have been decided that if you have one point of exposure then you throw up your hands and decide there is no point in any precautions. 

I agree. I think cutting back on the number of risky behaviors is helpful. Sometimes you can't help having to do multiple errands, but we do try to keep the number of errands we run down to a reasonable number (maybe I don't usually buy my groceries at Menards, but if I'm at Menards for something I need, I can pick up some cereal and toothpaste it if keeps me from going to a second store). Or we run multiple errands at a time. Going to three stores on one day is still three different errands, but at least if I get exposed to COVID at the first stop, I am unlikely to have started being contagious during stops 2 and 3. But if I went to stops 2 and 3 on different days before showing symptoms, I am much more likely to be spewing germs without knowing it. 

Most people don't have the luxury of perfect decisions, but being honest about our risks and doing less is good. I think lying low vs. throwing up our hands is a good strategy. 

If online ordering/curbside is not workable for a store or situation, I try to choose a particular location to shop that is not likely to be inundated with people (the least busy Target, for instance)--that sometimes means a little bit of a drive, but I end up encountering a fraction of the people that I would at the closer option. Also, my closest options often have more people unmasked than the ones I have to drive a bit farther to do.

 

[Pam in CT]

2 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I’m in CA where this time of the year it just does not rain.  I mean, almost never.  So it’s fairly easy to be cavalier about requiring everything to be outside here right now.  But come October or November when the rain starts or the temperature drops, and it’s going to be a different story.  And people are getting very sick of this now, and not even doing the outdoor stuff, most of them; so I’m expecting an exasperation-driven spike in infections when they start doing things inside that they won’t even do outside right now.  My husband is going to be teaching some of the only non-virtual classes in his university starting in a couple of weeks.  I have to admit that I’m very concerned about this.

I'm in CT where the weather is just never what it's theoretically supposed to be, I mean, almost never. Today is nice but for the last two days it's been COLD, a prefiguring of what is to come and what I dread.

I've lived outdoors throughout COVID thus far.

Every single thing that has made our lives bearable throughout all this -- eating on the patio, biking, hiking, kayaking, backyard wine with friends, meeting up in Central Park with our NYC relatives, outdoor movie screenings from our ancient bar mitzvah-days projector, camping in the parking lot of my mother's senior independent living complex so we can see her IRL -- all of it is weather dependent.

I dread fall.

[Pam in CT]

re limitations of testing

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

We’re still in a situation where my EMT dd’s test cost us $100 and results took several days. So we couldn’t be certain she was clear for a few days. She could have tested negative because it didn’t “kick in” yet.  She could have caught it while waiting. She could have caught it after getting the results. She could catch it today while getting her car registered. 🤷‍♀️ 
 

Oh, I agree. I'm still working on my mother, who seems still sustain the (obviously mis-) perception that if she tested negative ONCE in the PAST she has some sort of forward-facing guarantee that she's clear and good to go in the future.

And NYC's free & fast-results testing program is the exception not the rule.

Expanded testing is a TOOL to enable more and safer contact, but it's no panacea. This isn't over till there's a) a safe & effective vaccine that b) is deployed at scaled and c) is actually utilized by a majority of the population. Hard to see that, from here. Sigh.

[MEmama]

21 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

I'm in CT where the weather is just never what it's theoretically supposed to be, I mean, almost never. Today is nice but for the last two days it's been COLD, a prefiguring of what is to come and what I dread.

I've lived outdoors throughout COVID thus far.

Every single thing that has made our lives bearable throughout all this -- eating on the patio, biking, hiking, kayaking, backyard wine with friends, meeting up in Central Park with our NYC relatives, outdoor movie screenings from our ancient bar mitzvah-days projector, camping in the parking lot of my mother's senior independent living complex so we can see her IRL -- all of it is weather dependent.

I dread fall.

Yeah, it’s all going to change come colder weather. We haven’t done much this summer but like you, it’s all been outside. Walking with a friend every couple weeks, kayaking, mountain biking with a friend (DS), etc. Very few people and only very occasionally. But already it’s changing—XC practice, study group for DS's college class, even an outdoor party with school friends (only 7, but still)...
 

All summer I’ve been squirreling away supplies for winter. Right now I feel okay going to the grocery or Target every couple weeks, but I’m planning to stop once schools start back up. Because there a few things for DS that we feel are necessary to allow (XC while it lasts, study group), it will be extra essential for me to reduce my family's potential viral load by giving up other things. I expect the states numbers, which have remained very low, will change quickly once kids are crammed together inside and the heat gets turned on everywhere. 

[Matryoshka]

37 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

I'm in CT where the weather is just never what it's theoretically supposed to be, I mean, almost never. Today is nice but for the last two days it's been COLD, a prefiguring of what is to come and what I dread.

I've lived outdoors throughout COVID thus far.

Every single thing that has made our lives bearable throughout all this -- eating on the patio, biking, hiking, kayaking, backyard wine with friends, meeting up in Central Park with our NYC relatives, outdoor movie screenings from our ancient bar mitzvah-days projector, camping in the parking lot of my mother's senior independent living complex so we can see her IRL -- all of it is weather dependent.

I dread fall.

I live even a bit north of you, and yes to all of that.  I do worry about the Northeast when the weather drives us all back indoors.

[Carol in Cal.]

37 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

 

I've lived outdoors throughout COVID thus far.

Every single thing that has made our lives bearable throughout all this -- eating on the patio, biking, hiking, kayaking, backyard wine with friends, meeting up in Central Park with our NYC relatives, outdoor movie screenings from our ancient bar mitzvah-days projector, camping in the parking lot of my mother's senior independent living complex so we can see her IRL -- all of it is weather dependent.

 

Here, too.

For the last three weeks, although the weather has been fine, the air quality is so bad that I am unwilling to continue my HIIT, which had been the One Big Thing that was making the situation positive.  Can’t exercise safely anywhere, but especially outside.  And there is no end in sight—once the Bay Area fires stopped spewing so badly, the Walker Fire kicked in.  I know I’m so fortunate compared to others who have had to evacuate, and I even know someone whose rental house burned down with just about everything she owned in it, so I feel like a jerk complaining, but being truly cabin bound is getting to me.  And what will fix it (a bunch of good rain) will also make it harder to go outside as well.  

[wathe]

43 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

I'm in CT where the weather is just never what it's theoretically supposed to be, I mean, almost never. Today is nice but for the last two days it's been COLD, a prefiguring of what is to come and what I dread.

I've lived outdoors throughout COVID thus far.

Every single thing that has made our lives bearable throughout all this -- eating on the patio, biking, hiking, kayaking, backyard wine with friends, meeting up in Central Park with our NYC relatives, outdoor movie screenings from our ancient bar mitzvah-days projector, camping in the parking lot of my mother's senior independent living complex so we can see her IRL -- all of it is weather dependent.

I dread fall.

Here too (Ontario, Canada).  We have committed to continuing on outdoors as much as possible,  adopting the "no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothes" philosophy.   Our homeschool social group will have an outdoor theme, focusing on outdoor rec (snowshoeing etc) and survival skills.  We've committed as a family to camping once a month year-round for a year (will rent a yurt for  a few nights each in Dec, Jan and Feb and possibly March).  Visits to my parents will still be backyard visits - either daytrips or camping out in the yard (a chance to practice winter camping skills).  We are fortunate that my kids are at a good age for this (11 and 12) and are keen, and have already done some winter camping with scouts.  We'll see how it goes.

[Pam in CT]

re no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing

6 minutes ago, wathe said:

Here too (Ontario, Canada).  We have committed to continuing on outdoors as much as possible,  adopting the "no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothes" philosophy.   Our homeschool social group will have an outdoor theme, focusing on outdoor rec (snowshoeing etc) and survival skills.  We've committed as a family to camping once a month year-round for a year (will rent a yurt for  a few nights each in Dec, Jan and Feb and possibly March).  Visits to my parents will still be backyard visits - either daytrips or camping out in the yard (a chance to practice winter camping skills).  We are fortunate that my kids are at a good age for this (11 and 12) and are keen, and have already done some winter camping with scouts.  We'll see how it goes.

are you -- by chance -- of Scottish descent?  That is where I first heard this sentiment expressed.  Truly it has rocked my world.

 

I am really inspired by your commitment to outdoor camping. Please report on how it goes.  I've always wanted to do a winter yurt.

(Back in the Beforetimes, we did an extended family bucket list excursion one winter at the Hotel de Glace in Quebec City.  Soooooo amazing. Unsurprisingly it seems to be closed for COVID this season.)

[Pawz4me]

2 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

 

I guess I feel like while it would be best if people were just all careful and not taking risks, we would all be a heck of alot better off if people took fewer risks. Perfectly safe? Of course not! But I wish we could slow the spread by people just cutting back on their number of risky behaviors. Like if church is your thing and you won't give it up but you then laid low most of the rest of the week it would surely help some to slow things. But everyone is doing all the things and it seems to have been decided that if you have one point of exposure then you throw up your hands and decide there is no point in any precautions. 

 

36 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Right now I feel okay going to the grocery or Target every couple weeks, but I’m planning to stop once schools start back up. Because there a few things for DS that we feel are necessary to allow (XC while it lasts, study group), it will be extra essential for me to reduce my family's potential viral load by giving up other things. I expect the states numbers, which have remained very low, will change quickly once kids are crammed together inside and the heat gets turned on everywhere. 

I've seen the above approach referred to as a Covid budget. And it makes some sense to me. Obviously less exposure is always better in terms of risk of infection, infection rates, etc. But if you want to go to (for example) church so you intentionally choose to skip that dinner out in a restaurant to help balance out the exposure risk . . I think that's gotta be a better choice than doing both, and that if enough people made those intentional budgeting choices it would add up across a city/state/region. I hope.

[skimomma]

1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

I'm in CT where the weather is just never what it's theoretically supposed to be, I mean, almost never. Today is nice but for the last two days it's been COLD, a prefiguring of what is to come and what I dread.

I've lived outdoors throughout COVID thus far.

Every single thing that has made our lives bearable throughout all this -- eating on the patio, biking, hiking, kayaking, backyard wine with friends, meeting up in Central Park with our NYC relatives, outdoor movie screenings from our ancient bar mitzvah-days projector, camping in the parking lot of my mother's senior independent living complex so we can see her IRL -- all of it is weather dependent.

I dread fall.

This is what keeps me up at night.  We have literally been living outdoors all summer and camping remotely almost every other weekend.  We are also super active outdoors in the winter but winter here is 6+ months of snow.  Lots and lots of snow.  And blizzards and wind and ice and and and.....  Keeping warm is only part of the challenge with socializing or doing things outdoors.  Just the two months at the beginning of this pandemic almost did my whole family in until the snow melted enough to really do anything.  Looking at the colors change on the trees has always brought me joy.  Now it brings crippling anxiety.  We have a four-family bubble but still do all things outdoors and distanced as much as possible.  These are hearty people and I can see us still doing the occasional bonfire in the dead of winter but it will be very occasional and predicated on decent weather which can be distanced by weeks.

[Carrie12345]

26 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

 

I've seen the above approach referred to as a Covid budget. And it makes some sense to me. Obviously less exposure is always better in terms of risk of infection, infection rates, etc. But if you want to go to (for example) church so you intentionally choose to skip that dinner out in a restaurant to help balance out the exposure risk . . I think that's gotta be a better choice than doing both, and that if enough people made those intentional budgeting choices it would add up across a city/state/region. I hope.

I like that.
My household is already over the covid budget I’d be comfortable with, just by way of essential tasks,  jobs, and volunteer work. Blech.

[mom2scouts]

Honestly, I'm so discouraged. I'm so sick of seeing all these same people have parties, get togethers, and vacations while I'm sitting at home trying to be safe. I want to do those things too!!! I want to get together with people and go to church and take a vacation. I want to visit my parents and hold my grandbaby. They'll just keep having fun and this will just keep going on and on. We've been very cautious and only allowing activities that have multiple protections in place, but all of our precautions seem like such a waste. The other day I had to replace my cell phone and the salesman had a mask that fell off his face for most of the time and the other salesmen kept pulling their masks off to talk to customers. I was in a parking lot where a baseball game was ending and a large group of people, including pregnant women and babies, were close together and not one mask in sight. I'm letting DD do one activity because she *needs* some social outlet and the one we chose has gone above and beyond with safety rules, but so many other people don't seem to even be aware that there's a pandemic going on. And fall,...oh no, there's goes all our enjoyable out of the house activities. 

[ktgrok]

Regarding weather - it really does make a difference. Here, it's been miserably hot (heat index 105 and up) daily, and the only time it isn't is when it during thunderstorms. Can't even send the kids to play in the rain because of the lightening! We do have a pool, and are SO blessed because of that - but for weeks every time we went in it it would start thundering. Never even freaking rained on us to cool it down, just thunder and lightening! Thankfully today we got a nice window to swim for an hour or so. But I'm SO looking forward to the cooler weather so we can go on nature walks, camp, eat outdoors, etc. 

[Laura Corin]

3 hours ago, wathe said:

Here too (Ontario, Canada).  We have committed to continuing on outdoors as much as possible,  adopting the "no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothes" philosophy.   Our homeschool social group will have an outdoor theme, focusing on outdoor rec (snowshoeing etc) and survival skills.  We've committed as a family to camping once a month year-round for a year (will rent a yurt for  a few nights each in Dec, Jan and Feb and possibly March).  Visits to my parents will still be backyard visits - either daytrips or camping out in the yard (a chance to practice winter camping skills).  We are fortunate that my kids are at a good age for this (11 and 12) and are keen, and have already done some winter camping with scouts.  We'll see how it goes.

I'll  carry on doing most  things outside - Scotland  - but my 97 year old mother won't be meeting me in the garden of her care home in December. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Laura Corin

[Carol in Cal.]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Regarding weather - it really does make a difference. Here, it's been miserably hot (heat index 105 and up) daily, and the only time it isn't is when it during thunderstorms. Can't even send the kids to play in the rain because of the lightening! We do have a pool, and are SO blessed because of that - but for weeks every time we went in it it would start thundering. Never even freaking rained on us to cool it down, just thunder and lightening! Thankfully today we got a nice window to swim for an hour or so. But I'm SO looking forward to the cooler weather so we can go on nature walks, camp, eat outdoors, etc. 

That dry lightning is what started all the big fires at once in NorCal.  Honestly it was like something out of the freaking Hunger Games.  

[Laura Corin]

Come to think of it, we often get ice rather than snow in winter, so all the paths are treacherous.  I'm considering getting a rowing machine.

[math teacher]

Quote

 

I'm also tired of being in the minority in my caution. Only 5 or 6 people wear a mask to church. My son won't even come to in person church because of the cavalier attitude. Last night a couple at Bible study had some hurtful remarks about him. I'm so tired of it all. Why does it have to be a religious or political thing. People! It's a virus!!

[Farrar]

My brother yelled at me when I suggested that in order for us to visit, that he take his kids out of preschool/daycare for a couple of days so that there would be enough of a window for them to all get tested, isolate, then get the results and then for us to get there and spend a couple of days with them. He was being so careful. No one is taking any risks, etc. etc. I was like, the kids being at school all day is a risk. He was like, what are you talking about, we've been doing this for months, they're fine, they have lots of rules and precautions. And how dare I suggest they miss SCHOOL. Um, your kids are 2 and 4. They're not missing much. Not that I said that. Sigh. The day after that, his mil, who comes to see them at least every couple of weeks and stays at their house posted photos of herself out to lunch, inside, literally leaning face to face with her best friend without masks. I'm so frickin done with this stuff.

We are NOT going to see him until it's all finished. Sigh.

[maize]

I commented on one friend's post on Facebook that was minimizing covid and she responded reassuring me that she was being careful, wearing a mask, etc.

The post right below that was of her at an indoor recreation place with friends, leaning in close together, none of them masked.

[Farrar]

2 hours ago, maize said:

I commented on one friend's post on Facebook that was minimizing covid and she responded reassuring me that she was being careful, wearing a mask, etc.

The post right below that was of her at an indoor recreation place with friends, leaning in close together, none of them masked.

Honestly, this behavior is killing me more than anything. Like, my kid completely lost it over it a few days ago. He knows so many people who go on social media and shame others for their behavior all while doing the exact same things. Meanwhile, he hasn't been inside a building that isn't our house since February. Like, not at all. Everyone else here has popped in the store at least once but not him. He was like, they're total hypocrites. And it's nearly everyone at this point.

[HS Mom in NC]

Quote

 

 I sympathize. 

Today I got the news that my 77 year old father, who lives alone,  has cancer and that my middle daughter, with a history of lung issues and history of being immunocompromised, has COVID symptoms. Her husband is immunocompromised. Her test results come back on Saturday. We're the only people they see in person outside of her work.  We stay home except for rare shopping trips for essentials as do they. She masks and distances at work, but not everyone there does. Her husband works from home.

We do let my youngest hang out at one neighbor's house.  Her dad is an ER nurse who works with COVID patients because his specialty is in infectious disease and he knows how to be careful.  We run things past him first if we do anything possibly questionable like let their kids use our VR headset. His kids will be home this year  if even schools open back up. His wife works from home. They only take their masks off outside if they're not physically near anyone else.

[pitterpatter]

Can we imagine what Thanksgiving and Christmas will be like? How about Halloween?

[J-rap]

7 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

 

I've seen the above approach referred to as a Covid budget. And it makes some sense to me. Obviously less exposure is always better in terms of risk of infection, infection rates, etc. But if you want to go to (for example) church so you intentionally choose to skip that dinner out in a restaurant to help balance out the exposure risk . . I think that's gotta be a better choice than doing both, and that if enough people made those intentional budgeting choices it would add up across a city/state/region. I hope.

Interesting...  I haven't thought of it like that before.  But obviously we all have our own measurement of risks.  There are no exact lines, and we all make choices which allow at least some risks.

[wathe]

10 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

re no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing

are you -- by chance -- of Scottish descent?  That is where I first heard this sentiment expressed.  Truly it has rocked my world.

 

I am really inspired by your commitment to outdoor camping. Please report on how it goes.  I've always wanted to do a winter yurt.

(Back in the Beforetimes, we did an extended family bucket list excursion one winter at the Hotel de Glace in Quebec City.  Soooooo amazing. Unsurprisingly it seems to be closed for COVID this season.)

England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales.  Though I always thought it was a Finnish expression 🙂

We've yurt camped in Algonquin Park in January before.  It's pretty cushy - electric heat and an outlet (you can bring an electric kettle!). 

[wathe]

7 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

I'll  carry on doing most  things outside - Scotland  - but my 97 year old mother won't be meeting me in the garden of her care home in December. 

Right.  I absolutely realize how fortunate I am to have family who are all at an age and stage/health status where outdoor winter socializing is possible.  I know winter is going to cause serious social hardship for a lot of people. 

[easypeasy]

f

11 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

Every single thing that has made our lives bearable throughout all this -- eating on the patio, biking, hiking, kayaking, backyard wine with friends, meeting up in Central Park with our NYC relatives, outdoor movie screenings from our ancient bar mitzvah-days projector, camping in the parking lot of my mother's senior independent living complex so we can see her IRL -- all of it is weather dependent.

I dread fall.

Same here. Especially for my kids. This is how they’ve been able to stay in touch with friends. I can’t even bring myself to imagine this continuing through the wintertime...

10 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Yes yes yes to testing. I do hope when a reliable saliva test is available, some one with the authority and will to do so will make sure it’s affordable. 

YESYESYESYESYES!!! My college daughter has tested 3 or 4 times already, as have her closest friends. It’s made all the difference in the world for her! It’s easily accessible and free! My son and dh have also tested a couple of times here in our state: also free and easy to access.

6 hours ago, maize said:

I commented on one friend's post on Facebook that was minimizing covid and she responded reassuring me that she was being careful, wearing a mask, etc.

The post right below that was of her at an indoor recreation place with friends, leaning in close together, none of them masked.

As referenced above, my dd and her uni friends are being tested regularly and are being *super* careful. And yet, dd posted a photo today of her with her new best friends - all maskless. They went to a new-to-them restaurant today and the photo was taken indoors. They all were very recently tested and spend almost all their time together. And that restaurant severely limits the # of ppl who can come in and took extraordinary precautions. It’s why they chose it when they felt they just *needed* to get off campus for a night out. Their masks were in their laps for the photo and back on while they waited for their food to arrive. So that photo might have looked irresponsible, but actually... they’re being as safe as 18-20 year olds are going to be able to be without being home 24/7. So, hopefully some of that is what you’re seeing on FB - ppl doing the best they can without going completely stir crazy. 💚

[Carrie12345]

7 hours ago, wathe said:

re no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing

A part of me wishes I could be that person.  I was sort of raised as that person, spending plenty of weekends camping (in a trailer with electricity, heat, and hot water!), spending all day running around, sledding, skating, and warming up at the campfire, but it just did not stick.  Which is kind of crazy, considering I live in a ski resort area, lol. Now I get annoyed with having to bundle up to shovel the driveway.

My family is used to near-hibernating during the +/- 6 months of winter, so we have that, but it will definitely be harder than usual after losing our entire spring, summer, and fall.

[Guest]

I'm opposite-fall is when spending more time outside becomes bearable. Right now, it's either too hot, or raining. Or both at once. I'm hoping it starts cooling down a bit so we can do more outdoor activities with friends. 

 

[alisoncooks]

5 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

I'm opposite-fall is when spending more time outside becomes bearable. Right now, it's either too hot, or raining. Or both at once. I'm hoping it starts cooling down a bit so we can do more outdoor activities with friends. 

 

Yes. This is what I've been thinking -- it's so miserably hot right now in my area. I can't wait for fall/winter, so we can go outside. 

[rebcoola]

I'm ready for fall it's 105 and smoky from all the surrounding fires. Not pleasant for outdoor activities.