Why is the rate of suicide increasing so much?

[Katy]

Today just said it's up 28%.

How much do you think it's about media?  There's that show on Netflix.

Kate Spade's sister said she had a morbid fascination with Robin Williams.

Now Anthony Bourdain. 

I've heard of suicide epidemics among teenagers, but is this the beginning of one among middle aged celebrities?

I don't know that much about this topic.  I've had situational depression before that ended when I got off the birth control pill but not major depression that lasted for years, and no bipolar in my family. I'd really like to learn more from those who are more educated about it than I am.

[umsami]

There's an article about it on NPR.

Yes...contagion (with a celebrity death) is part of it.

Internet...basically teaches people how to commit it.  

More lethal means being easily available too.  Attempted suicide by gun is far more successful than by drugs.

I'm sure our crappy health insurance/mental health factors play a role, too.

I've read that social media connections actually are a false sense of connection, and can contribute.  

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/06/07/617897261/cdc-u-s-suicide-rates-have-climbed-dramatically

[JennyD]

DH and I were just talking about this.  In the last 12 years we have known four people who committed suicide.  All successful, prosperous adult men, three of them fathers who left behind devastated families.  And those are just the people that we knew personally - not the (too) many more that we've heard of.  

It is just ghastly and it scares the heck out of me.  

 

[Bambam]

I think it is because people have no hope. If you don't believe in God or any eternal being, and things are bad, then what is the reason to not? 

http://www.omaha.com/news/nation/suicide-now-the-th-leading-cause-of-death-in-us/article_7b5f1b59-76fa-5fdf-a08e-b14bccc2749c.html

[HomeAgain]

I think anytime instability in a society increases, so will mental health issues and suicide.  Employment sucks for workers - low pay to keep them at the poverty level, lack of benefits.  Health care sucks for people - insurance is a joke and hospital prices have increased dramatically.  People don't feel safe - videos showing our police forces acting like thugs and school shootings make everyone feel vulnerable. Housing is becoming insane in areas - the homeless population of Seattle is greater than NYC, for example, and even people with homes struggle to make ends meet.  Education is a joke - college is necessary for a job but will saddle an average person with debt for the next 10 years.

Taking everything together, and people not seeing hope or a better future on the horizon, things seem hopeless. We see more drug use, more suicides, and more apathy than we would if people felt safe, cared for, and connected.

[HomeAgain]

12 minutes ago, Bambam said:

I think it is because people have no hope. If you don't believe in God or any eternal being, and things are bad, then what is the reason to not? 

http://www.omaha.com/news/nation/suicide-now-the-th-leading-cause-of-death-in-us/article_7b5f1b59-76fa-5fdf-a08e-b14bccc2749c.html

This would be an interesting question to examine rates in secular countries compared to religious ones.

[DawnM]

Our students are really into 13 Reasons and it caused a huge upswing in attempted suicides and cutting.

[Bluegoat]

I don't know that I'd pin it directly on belief in God, but I do wonder about people giving meaning and value to their lives.  The current pop culture approach to life seems to be really very devoid of it - it's not even like secular humanism, it's a kind of a nothing.  Bourdain struck me very much as someone who believed that fundamentally, we are just a bit of a blip in the universe  - so eat and drink so tomorrow we may die kind of thing.  That' not really about no afterlife, I think, it's about no Good.  

This has struck me a few times talking to my sister, who essentially takes that view.  She's said more than once if she is getting to where life is no longer livable for her, she'd want to be euthanized, but I was a bit shocked to realize how low that bar was for her when she said something like a urostomy, even if she was otherwise healthy, would be enough for her. Now that might change as she ages, but even the idea that there was so little that made a difference to life being worthwhile.  I also think of the way the euthanasia debate has gone in countries like Belgium, where initial attempts to limit it to cases where it seemed really awful situations have just been eroded - and it seems to me a big part of it is life has come to be seen as having a very narrow value and no real meaning in the larger sense.

If we are all just mayflies, what difference does it make if we drop dead a little sooner?  Why not chose that if you are unhappy?

[Bluegoat]

5 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I really think this sort of contagion factor is not recognized enough.  

 

I think it is huge, and not only with suicide.

[SarahCB]

I really think it's hard to quantify. Someone very close to me committed suicide about ten years ago. He didn't have a drug or alcohol problem. He was very successful in his career - which might have contributed, lots of demands and he was very busy. He was single and had been for a while. I can't imagine suicide contagion being a contributing factor. There were no warning signs. He was out for dinner with someone very close to him the night before and apparently everything seemed normal. He was in his forties.

Things like the economy, health care, and education were not factors as all of those were positive. 

[Scarlett]

I remember my mom told me many times that no matter how bad things seem today you have no idea what tomorrow will bring.  That your life can change for the unbelievable better in an instant.  And that suicide is a permanent solution to temporary problems.  She was in such despair in early 20s she was about to kill herself but she did not because of the one year old child that was there in the house with her that depended on her completely.  From that experience she learned that things get better....that feeling goes away and tomorrow is another day.  She really wanted me to learn that without going through it.  

So I don't know if these celebrities are just so far out of the loop that they don't have someone saying things like that to them...or if it is drugs and alcohol or mental illness or total loss of hope for the future or what.  I suspect it is a combination of things.  People's thinking gets really really messed up with a lot of external and internal pressure. 

And even though the WWW has allowed people to learn how to kill themselves, it also has a ton of information on how to  cope with problems if one is inclined to go look.    

[Pawz4me]

54 minutes ago, Bambam said:

I think it is because people have no hope. If you don't believe in God or any eternal being, and things are bad, then what is the reason to not? 

http://www.omaha.com/news/nation/suicide-now-the-th-leading-cause-of-death-in-us/article_7b5f1b59-76fa-5fdf-a08e-b14bccc2749c.html

I'm not disputing your opinion (you certainly have every right to it), but anecdotally -- My mental health/overall outlook on life improved tremendously once we left organized religion, and it's only continued to improve as I've studied secular Buddhist teaching. I have so much more peace now. The thought you express is a common enough one, but it's also commonly refuted by atheists and agnostics to no avail--the religious folks just ignore them and insist they're right.

ETA: In contemplating this it just struck me--the only person I know well who tried to commit suicide was at the time (it was many years ago) a devout, middle aged Christian male. I suppose I'm very lucky I've only known one person who's tried, and nobody who succeeded.

[Scarlett]

Dh and I talked about this some this morning.  There is a real drive for 'thrill seeking'.  Be it high stakes investing, being driven to accumulate wealth to excess, extreme sports, risky personal behavior around drugs, sex and alcohol.....people want a thrill.  And the media is full of this---maybe leaving some to believe their own life is meh.

So it seems there is a real lack of appreciation for life.  Like someone says, 'oh we just mayflies so what if we die sooner'.  

And when these thrill seekers get to the top of their thrill....or years of it leaves  them empty....they just think, 'what is the point.?'

 

[gardenmom5]

my father committed suicide.   my sister made numerous suicide threats (started before our father's death.  I think she was doing it more for attention/drama.)

I think there are a number of factors that have gone into the increase.

the decrease in intimate/close relationships.  people have fewer "meaningful connections" with real people in real life.  when things get hard - they don't have a support system.

an increase of focus on "outward appearance", and more demands of "perfection".   this can lead to a fear of "exposure of who you really are".  there are cultures where suicide is about 'saving face'.   I think that is part of what is driving the increase here.

changes in diet that can upset chemical physiology.    it can be very easy to not realize just how finely tuned the human-body/brain ( it is NOT "just" the brain) is to chemical changes.  even a slight change in make-up can throw off the system and lead to dysfunction.  I've experienced the potentially very serious effects of chemical imbalance first hand after a seriously bad reaction to anesthesia that left me with compulsions to do serious damage to myself. (it took months to get my chemistry balanced.)   and for all the claims rec drugs are safe - anything that changes the chemistry within the body or brain - should be regarded seriously.

I think chemcial is a big one.   mental health system wasn't very good when my father killed himself and the rx available were even worse - but in reality, we haven't really made any progress and in some areas we've gone backwards. 

there is an even bigger stigma against mental illness, as people have become more aware, - instead of increased understanding and compassion, there seems to be an increase of intolerance driving those who struggle further into isolation.

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

my father committed suicide.   my sister made numerous suicide threats (started before our father's death.  I think she was doing it more for attention/drama.)

I think there are a number of factors that have gone into the increase.

the decrease in intimate/close relationships.  people have fewer "meaningful connections" with real people in real life.  when things get hard - they don't have a support system.

an increase of focus on "outward appearance", and more demands of "perfection".   this can lead to a fear of "exposure of who you really are".  there are cultures where suicide is about 'saving face'.   I think that is part of what is driving the increase here.

changes in diet that can upset chemical physiology.    it can be very easy to not realize just how finely tuned the human-body/brain ( it is NOT "just" the brain) is to chemical changes.  even a slight change in make-up can throw off the system and lead to dysfunction.  I've experienced the potentially very serious effects of chemical imbalance first hand after a seriously bad reaction to anesthesia that left me with compulsions to do serious damage to myself. (it took months to get my chemistry balanced.)   and for all the claims rec drugs are safe - anything that changes the chemistry within the body or brain - should be regarded seriously.

I think chemcial is a big one.   mental health system wasn't very good when my father killed himself and the rx available were even worse - but in reality, we haven't really made any progress and in some areas we've gone backwards. 

there is an even bigger stigma against mental illness, as people have become more aware, - instead of increased understanding and compassion, there seems to be an increase of intolerance driving those who struggle further into isolation.

I have a friend who has 2 sisters and one nephew (son of one of the sisters) who killed themselves.  One sister jumped off a 5 th floor building and a year later her son jumped from the same spot.  So there seems to me to sometimes be some romanticizing of the act. 

[chiguirre]

I've only known two people IRL who've killed themselves, both were young teen boys using their father's guns. If their families had been more careful with their guns, they'd have their sons.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

1 minute ago, chiguirre said:

I've only known two people IRL who've killed themselves, both were young teen boys using their father's guns. If their families had been more careful with their guns, they'd have their sons.

Not necessarily. The gun was a means to an end. They very well could have found another method.

[HollyDay]

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

I think anytime instability in a society increases, so will mental health issues and suicide.  Employment sucks for workers - low pay to keep them at the poverty level, lack of benefits.  Health care sucks for people - insurance is a joke and hospital prices have increased dramatically.  People don't feel safe - videos showing our police forces acting like thugs and school shootings make everyone feel vulnerable. Housing is becoming insane in areas - the homeless population of Seattle is greater than NYC, for example, and even people with homes struggle to make ends meet.  Education is a joke - college is necessary for a job but will saddle an average person with debt for the next 10 years.

Taking everything together, and people not seeing hope or a better future on the horizon, things seem hopeless. We see more drug use, more suicides, and more apathy than we would if people felt safe, cared for, and connected.

This would not explain the celebrity suicides that happened this week.  They were wealthy, had jobs, fame, success, admired by millions.  On the surface anyway, their society was not only stable but highly successful. 

[Bluegoat]

10 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

my father committed suicide.   my sister made numerous suicide threats (started before our father's death.  I think she was doing it more for attention/drama.)

I think there are a number of factors that have gone into the increase.

the decrease in intimate/close relationships.  people have fewer "meaningful connections" with real people in real life.  when things get hard - they don't have a support system.

an increase of focus on "outward appearance", and more demands of "perfection".   this can lead to a fear of "exposure of who you really are".  there are cultures where suicide is about 'saving face'.   I think that is part of what is driving the increase here.

changes in diet that can upset chemical physiology.    it can be very easy to not realize just how finely tuned the human-body/brain ( it is NOT "just" the brain) is to chemical changes.  even a slight change in make-up can throw off the system and lead to dysfunction.  I've experienced the potentially very serious effects of chemical imbalance first hand after a seriously bad reaction to anesthesia that left me with compulsions to do serious damage to myself. (it took months to get my chemistry balanced.)   and for all the claims rec drugs are safe - anything that changes the chemistry within the body or brain - should be regarded seriously.

I think chemcial is a big one.   mental health system wasn't very good when my father killed himself and the rx available were even worse - but in reality, we haven't really made any progress and in some areas we've gone backwards. 

there is an even bigger stigma against mental illness, as people have become more aware, - instead of increased understanding and compassion, there seems to be an increase of intolerance driving those who struggle further into isolation.

 

Those are some interesting ideas.

Ultimately, I think causes overall are a mix, we'll never pin down one reason everyone does something like this.  

I do think isolation is a factor - our society has been set up for increasing isolation for a few generations, but it's really skyrocketed with the internet - we were probably vulnerable because we already were isolated.  Even though it gives a feeling of connectedness, in many cases it's false, or replaces more immediate connection.

It's an interesting point that even though we feel like we deal better with mental illness in terms of drugs, numbers are up.  Maybe we've been tricked into thinking the problem has been solved chemically - my suspicion is that it's not mainly a chemical problem though.  I do wonder about emotional resilience - it seems to be on the decrease too.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Bambam said:

I think it is because people have no hope. If you don't believe in God or any eternal being, and things are bad, then what is the reason to not? 

 

I'm sorry, but this attitude really bother's me.  not sure if it's because i find it woefully naive - or offensively sanctimonious.  It completely disregards the physiological responses in the body from either health issues that can affect the brain, or mental illness.  that type of attitude drives those in a religious community who are struggling - further into isolation.  "if you had more faith - you wouldn't be suicidal"  (iow: "it's the person's own fault their mental health is so bad they think of killing themselves) - do you realize that is the message that attitude is sending?

there are many myths about suicide - one is that "everyone makes a plan and leaves a note" - that's BS.  it completely denies those who act on impulse in the midst of a crises and are unable to think about anything but stopping the pain.

I have a deep belief in God's love for me - and I've btdtgtts.

[Murphy101]

A lot of what seems normal often isn’t. People just don’t learn that until after the suicide. The slow decline to that point isn’t always obvious. What do many people do when it feels like their life are falling apart? The same things many do when it isn’t. They go through the motions hoping eventually it won’t be just going through the motions. Until at some point they are exhausted with that exercise of futility and decide to not bother anymore. But hey, everyone else seems to be swimming along just fine, and they don’t want to bring anyone lose down. So they go through the motions one last time, then go home and off themselves.  Like they’d wanted to do for countless nights for who knows how long before. 

Sadly it’s not an unusual tale. 

[RootAnn]

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

I agree with most of this, and I think drugs are also playing a factor.  Spending your life doping up on heroin, crack, whatever pill/cocktail of choice is bound to create a lot of damage to the brain and body.  I know that a lot of drug and alcohol problems are often symptoms of larger issues, but the damage these things can do to a body can make them an issue all on their own. 

I've known three people who committed suicide. One had taken some prescription drugs for depression, but otherwise was not a smoker or drinker. The other was a teenage girl (no known drugs/alcohol use) who broke into her father's locked gun safe in the middle of the night. She'd been on the internet (back in the dial-up AOL days) in chat rooms & the theory was that someone egged her on, but I don't think her family ever got closure on what caused her to kill herself. It was really weird that she'd physically break into a gun safe like they found things. Her parents were out of town & her older sister was bartending, so she was home alone.

1 minute ago, chiguirre said:

I've only known two people IRL who've killed themselves, both were young teen boys using their father's guns. If their families had been more careful with their guns, they'd have their sons.

The third was another teenager at my high school. He used a belt. IMO, if someone is really intent on it, they'll use whatever they can find, e.g., a scarf.

"Permanent solution to a temporary problem" is something I tell my kids, too. Some things look really bad, but with some time & distance from the issue, maybe things aren't so horrible after all. Perspective is tough to have sometimes, though.

[gardenmom5]

4 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

Those are some interesting ideas.

Ultimately, I think causes overall are a mix, we'll never pin down one reason everyone does something like this.  

I do think isolation is a factor - our society has been set up for increasing isolation for a few generations, but it's really skyrocketed with the internet - we were probably vulnerable because we already were isolated.  Even though it gives a feeling of connectedness, in many cases it's false, or replaces more immediate connection.

It's an interesting point that even though we feel like we deal better with mental illness in terms of drugs, numbers are up.  Maybe we've been tricked into thinking the problem has been solved chemically - my suspicion is that it's not mainly a chemical problem though.  I do wonder about emotional resilience - it seems to be on the decrease too.

I completely agree - there is no "one fits all answer".  it's a multitude of factors for a multitude of people.  all of whom are different.

[Scarlett]

I have known several very religious people who killed themselves.  You can believe in God and falsely believe you are not worthy and thus no hope so why bother.  That doesn't make religion or God the blame anymore than lack of belief in God is to blame.

We humans are just messed up.  

[Joules]

I just read this from the NYT (hoping they didn't put it behind the firewall!)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/health/depression-suicide-helping.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

As someone who has struggled with PTSD, I think it has merit.  From the recipient, the only one that concerns me is the last.  When your spouse has had enough, says they can't deal anymore, and puts you in a not-right-now box, it can send you into a tail-spin.  Sometimes I wonder if strict boundaries are what send some people over the edge.  Of course, everyone needs boundaries to protect themselves, so I don't really know what the solution to that is..."Compassion Fatigue" is real and I feel like that's what Kate Spade's husband ran into.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

I'm not disputing your opinion (you certainly have every right to it), but anecdotally -- My mental health/overall outlook on life improved tremendously once we left organized religion, and it's only continued to improve as I've studied secular Buddhist teaching. I have so much more peace now. The thought you express is a common enough one, but it's also commonly refuted by atheists and agnostics to no avail--the religious folks just ignore them and insist they're right.

ETA: In contemplating this it just struck me--the only person I know well who tried to commit suicide was at the time (it was many years ago) a devout, middle aged Christian male. I suppose I'm very lucky I've only known one person who's tried, and nobody who succeeded.

not all.

My church leaders recognize the reality of mental illness, (incl. depression) - and understand it can lead to drastic actions someone in their right mind wouldn't take.  

while I know my paternal grandmother was of the opinion my father was going to hell for killing himself/not being her main-line protestant religious - and it left her utterly devastated.  

I don't wish to go into details - but my own experience was very different. 

[Pawz4me]

 

1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said:

not all.

My church leaders recognize the reality of mental illness, (incl. depression) - and understand it can lead to drastic actions someone in their right mind wouldn't take.  

while I know my paternal grandmother was of the opinion my father was going to hell for killing himself/not being her main-line protestant religious - and it left her utterly devastated.  

I don't wish to go into details - but my own experience was very different. 

??

That isn't what the part of my post you highlighted is referring to. Not at all. My post had nothing to do with whether churches believe in mental illness or not, but was about whether believing in God makes one mentally healthier/less prone to suicide.

[sassenach]

2 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

I think anytime instability in a society increases, so will mental health issues and suicide.  Employment sucks for workers - low pay to keep them at the poverty level, lack of benefits.  Health care sucks for people - insurance is a joke and hospital prices have increased dramatically.  People don't feel safe - videos showing our police forces acting like thugs and school shootings make everyone feel vulnerable. Housing is becoming insane in areas - the homeless population of Seattle is greater than NYC, for example, and even people with homes struggle to make ends meet.  Education is a joke - college is necessary for a job but will saddle an average person with debt for the next 10 years.

Taking everything together, and people not seeing hope or a better future on the horizon, things seem hopeless. We see more drug use, more suicides, and more apathy than we would if people felt safe, cared for, and connected.

 

I'd be curious to know if the rate is actually higher among people with lower income. I've seen it more in people with comfortable incomes, but I also live in a wealthy area so it could just be my sample.

[gardenmom5]

7 minutes ago, Joules said:

I just read this from the NYT (hoping they didn't put it behind the firewall!)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/health/depression-suicide-helping.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

As someone who has struggled with PTSD, I think it has merit.  From the recipient, the only one that concerns me is the last.  When your spouse has had enough, says they can't deal anymore, and puts you in a not-right-now box, it can send you into a tail-spin.  Sometimes I wonder if strict boundaries are what send some people over the edge.  Of course, everyone needs boundaries to protect themselves, so I don't really know what the solution to that is..."Compassion Fatigue" is real and I feel like that's what Kate Spade's husband ran into.

 

yeah-  probably why my mother thought my dad was bluffing.  he'd been struggling with severe depression since before they got married and she was burned out.  then during her teenage years - my sister was constantly threatening to  kill herself.

and it get's back to the lack of interconnectedness and social support among people compared to 40 years ago.  the (admittedly lacking) focus is on the suicidal person, but their immediate circle also need support.

[gardenmom5]

3 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

 

??

That isn't what the part of my post you highlighted is referring to. Not at all. My post had nothing to do with whether churches believe in mental illness or not, but was about whether believing in God makes one mentally healthier/less prone to suicide.

most people who believe in God  belong/ed (even if as a child) to an organized religion who teach things like "if you really believed in God, you wouldn't be suicidal" (a previous poster)  or "if you kill yourself you'll go to hell" - (my paternal grandmother.).

 

someone who has never participated in an organized religion - but believes in a higher power anyway, isn't going to pick up on some of those more negative teachings of a particular church organization.  those ideas came from somewhere.

[Mergath]

10 minutes ago, sassenach said:

I'd be curious to know if the rate is actually higher among people with lower income. I've seen it more in people with comfortable incomes, but I also live in a wealthy area so it could just be my sample.

 

The studies aren't conclusive, but there seems to be a link between suicide rates and both poverty and income inequality. So you're at greater risk if you're poor, but you're also at a greater risk if you're middle class but live surrounded by wealthy people.

[sassenach]

30 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

Those are some interesting ideas.

Ultimately, I think causes overall are a mix, we'll never pin down one reason everyone does something like this.  

I do think isolation is a factor - our society has been set up for increasing isolation for a few generations, but it's really skyrocketed with the internet - we were probably vulnerable because we already were isolated.  Even though it gives a feeling of connectedness, in many cases it's false, or replaces more immediate connection.

It's an interesting point that even though we feel like we deal better with mental illness in terms of drugs, numbers are up.  Maybe we've been tricked into thinking the problem has been solved chemically - my suspicion is that it's not mainly a chemical problem though.  I do wonder about emotional resilience - it seems to be on the decrease too.

1

I don't think our current generation sees suffering as a part of life. I don't mean just the millennials, I mean almost everyone who is alive in the US right now. We're on a long run of general stability and prosperity. Struggle and suffering used to be synonymous with living, now it's viewed as enormously bad luck. I know a lot of people who have gone through hard things and fought through, so I don't know if I'm even talking about the big things. It's almost more the smaller daily suffering that we don't have to live with anymore. That's what wears people down. 

IDK if that makes any sense. I don't feel like I know enough about suicide to really understand what pushes people over that edge. I personally feel like the stigma around mental health has decreased. Depression and other struggles are talked about much more openly in my circles than even 10 years ago. Choosing to go on meds has become MUCH more common and accepted.

The increase in suicide is since 1999, so I think we need to examine what has changed in the last 20 years. 

[Katy]

I've barely known 5 people who committed suicide, all many years ago and the factors today didn't seem to be much of an issue.  Guns were the method in the two adult men who already owned guns.  The other three were hanging, hanging, and slitting wrists. I think guns are a means to an end rather than a cause.

One of them was mentally ill and the purpose seemed to be getting revenge on his mother on her birthday.

One the economy and menopause seemed to be a factor.

One had been disabled for a number of years, his spouse could no longer properly care for him as she became disabled too, and he didn't want to move to a nursing home.

One was a teen who had some physical and learning disabilities and seemed to be devastated by the fact that his crush started dating someone else.

One was a person whose family abandoned her at menopause.  Husband left for a younger woman, kids took dad's side because he bribed them with money.

This does not include the people I knew who just decided that they didn't want to live anymore and stopped taking care of themselves with serious diseases, and/or gave into addictions that eventually killed them. I don't mean everyone who dies of an addiction has that as an intention, but in a few cases I know it was definitely a slow indirect route to suicide after something happened that made them give up on life.  As a nurse I saw a number of people decide to give up on life.  Some died in days, others took years, but it always worked eventually.

[SKL]

Drugs, both prescription and illegal.

Long term effect of diminishing value of life.

Kids not being allowed to experiment, problem-solve, resolve their own boredom, and learn from mistakes.

Media glorifying extreme behavior.

Media normalizing the expectation of immediate gratification and quick, neat problem resolution.

Ageing population.  Suicide is pretty high as you get into the older ages.

 

[sassenach]

10 minutes ago, Mergath said:

 

The studies aren't conclusive, but there seems to be a link between suicide rates and both poverty and income inequality. So you're at greater risk if you're poor, but you're also at a greater risk if you're middle class but live surrounded by wealthy people.

 

That's interesting. I live in an area where there will always be someone richer than you. Seriously, my friend lives on waterfront property with a sweeping view of San Francisco and one day she was talking about her neighbors who have multiple homes and remodel all of the time and commenting on people who are "wealthy." I was kind of stunned at how different her view of her own wealth was in comparison to my view of it.

But obviously, there has to be something more. Very few of us ever perceive that we're keeping up with the Joneses. 

[Katy]

6 minutes ago, Plum Crazy said:

There are so many misconceptions and misleading behavior when it comes to suicide. I've seen articles about Chester Bennington and Bourdain smiling and acting happy in their final days. Depression can be masked.

 

So in one of the suicides I mentioned above I was questioned by the police to make sure there was nothing suspicious going on.  I was this person's neighbor. I mentioned it was confusing because in the week beforehand they'd seemed very happy.  As in this was a quiet, sullen, shy person before who suddenly was visibly smiling, had a bounce in their step, and was more outgoing than typical. The police said that was quite common in suicide victims.  Once they decided they were going to die they felt much better about whatever problems they were having because they knew they would be over soon.

[Carrie12345]

I don't have the actual answer, but I pretty much reject most of the ones offered.  Though I've never been actively suicidal, there are a lot of mental health issues in my family, including my own bouts with depression, so keeping watch for risk factors (and knowing they aren't always there) is my every day state of mind.

There's nothing "meh" or "trendy" or "romantic" about gross pain, whatever a person may appear to be expressing.  Having experienced the intense, horrific pain of the lies depression tells *without coming to the conclusion some do, I can only imagine the depths felt by those who have.  Knowing what I've written (my main way of coping) during the worst times, the message sent doesn't accurately reflect what's really going on. To believe that the average person who tries to end their life has room for "normal" thoughts and emotions that other people can make sense of is mind boggling to me.

I do believe our obsession with entertaining correlation over causation will become its own correlation.

[BarbecueMom]

Ironically, I wonder if the decrease in smoking is actually a factor.  When my mom was younger, nearly everyone she knew smoked as a way to deal with stress and anxiety, and as a social bond.  Smoking went with smoke breaks and bars and bowling alleys and parties, and it created clear breaks within the work day.

We snuffed out the tobacco and nicotine to “save lives”, and replaced that stress relief and social glue with... what?  Nothing, really.

 

[umsami]

So, piggybacking on the God-thing.....one thing that keeps people from committing suicide in Muslim countries is the strong prohibition on suicide in Islam.  (Yes, ironic given the recent (in terms of Islamic history.....40 years vs. 1400) on suicide bombings.)  

There was an article on suicide in Egypt, and basically the religious prohibition (which exists also in Coptic Christianity) was given as one major reason for not committing suicide.  But I'll add that there is still such social stigma regarding mental illness and suicide, that people hide suicides as well.

When I was in high school, my best friend's best guy friend committed suicide on her 16th birthday.  They were both Catholic, and their priest refused to bury him.  That was faith-shattering.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

 

One other factor is that suicide is often an impulsive act.  So...just getting through that bad moment can be key.  If you turn to an easily available gun, you're far more likely to succeed in killing yourself.    This article states that 48% of attempted suicides in a study were impulsive.  That's a huge factor.  Not everybody is suicidal and depressed for months/years before making the decision to kill themselves.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4965648/

 

[frogger]

14 minutes ago, Margaret in CO said:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/adventure-blog/2016/05/16/why-are-ski-towns-suicides-happening-at-such-an-alarming-rate/?beta=true

We have an interesting phenomenon in our valley (and other mountain towns). For us, so much of it is the lack of connection. It's fine if you're still healthy and can go, go, go, but if not, folks find that they're left behind. That their human connections are based on activity, not actual love for each other. 

 

 

Thank you for posting this. It really makes one think about the way relationships are handled in modern times.

[gardenmom5]

5 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

So in one of the suicides I mentioned above I was questioned by the police to make sure there was nothing suspicious going on.  I was this person's neighbor. I mentioned it was confusing because in the week beforehand they'd seemed very happy.  As in this was a quiet, sullen, shy person before who suddenly was visibly smiling, had a bounce in their step, and was more outgoing than typical. The police said that was quite common in suicide victims.  Once they decided they were going to die they felt much better about whatever problems they were having because they knew they would be over soon.

it can also be they were genuinely feeling better because they were feeling better.  but it's an up and down road to healing - and then they go back down.   going back down after feeling better is actually more discouraging because it almost exacerbates the "down" feelings and leads to more intense feelings of "this will never get better" and more thinking that death really is the only "permanent" out.

those are lessons learned through experience, that "crap happens, but it passes".  so those with that life lesson, when they start to feel better, then worse - have something to hold onto until the next time they feel better.   that may be part of why the suicide rate for those who recently started antidepressants is higher.

back to that "emotional resilience" thing.   and social support systems matter.

[Pawz4me]

8 minutes ago, BarbecueMom said:

Ironically, I wonder if the decrease in smoking is actually a factor.  When my mom was younger, nearly everyone she knew smoked as a way to deal with stress and anxiety, and as a social bond.  Smoking went with smoke breaks and bars and bowling alleys and parties, and it created clear breaks within the work day.

We snuffed out the tobacco and nicotine to “save lives”, and replaced that stress relief and social glue with... what?  Nothing, really.

 

I couldn't bring myself to like (react to) your post, but that's a very interesting thought, and certainly correlates with social isolation.

[Tsuga]

I think we don't value human life.

Low wages for anyone who isn't in the top 25%--that is lack of value.

I think that people like Spade, Williams--I can see where they are coming from. If I'm not creating, I'm taking. There's no greater purpose in life.

I don't think religion can save people unless you really think that suicide leads to eternal damnation. Suppose you're on pills and you know God doesn't like it and you're hurting your family. Why not kill yourself and save everyone the trouble?

The lack of social support and social connection in the US is a huge problem, and the callous way people treat each other is making it worse.

I'll never forget what someone here said to me, "We aren't your family." That was chilling. It's that kind of thing that does lead to suicide. We aren't in it together, you can't count on us, nobody needs you, nobody wants you but your own. That's hard to live with. People only tell you you're worth something if you say you're going to kill yourself. But god forbid you have cancer and need health care. Then everyone's all about "Well you should have planned better. I'm sorry but it's not my job to take care of other poor planners."

Better to shoot yourself in the head then have no value.

If you say that God values people--hopefully you show that value every day and don't disparage poverty. Hopefully you believe in living wages. Hopefully you care about the things that show that their work, and their lives, should not be cast aside as worthless. But that's what I see now. "Your job has been automated, and now you should think about not having studied in school. Well, you made those choices, you need to accept the consequences. No whining. Health care for your kids? You shouldn't have had kids you couldn't afford."

Who would want to live with that kind of talk coming into them from society every day?

[PrincessMommy]

I haven't read all the responses, but I do wonder if part of the uptick is that it is more accurately reported.  Back in the day suicide wasn't talked about... if someone killed themselves you may not have known that was actually the cause because families were embarrassed and because there were religious repercussions against it.   So back in the day when something was called and "accidental death" it may not have actually been an accident.

I don't think that accounts for all of it... I do believe it is happening more frequently.   Modern society is very stressful.  

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Tsuga said:

I think we don't value human life.

Low wages for anyone who isn't in the top 25%--that is lack of value.

I think that people like Spade, Williams--I can see where they are coming from. If I'm not creating, I'm taking. There's no greater purpose in life.

I don't think religion can save people unless you really think that suicide leads to eternal damnation. Suppose you're on pills and you know God doesn't like it and you're hurting your family. Why not kill yourself and save everyone the trouble?

The lack of social support and social connection in the US is a huge problem, and the callous way people treat each other is making it worse.

I'll never forget what someone here said to me, "We aren't your family." That was chilling. It's that kind of thing that does lead to suicide. We aren't in it together, you can't count on us, nobody needs you, nobody wants you but your own. That's hard to live with. People only tell you you're worth something if you say you're going to kill yourself. But god forbid you have cancer and need health care. Then everyone's all about "Well you should have planned better. I'm sorry but it's not my job to take care of other poor planners."

Better to shoot yourself in the head then have no value.

If you say that God values people--hopefully you show that value every day and don't disparage poverty. Hopefully you believe in living wages. Hopefully you care about the things that show that their work, and their lives, should not be cast aside as worthless. But that's what I see now. "Your job has been automated, and now you should think about not having studied in school. Well, you made those choices, you need to accept the consequences. No whining. Health care for your kids? You shouldn't have had kids you couldn't afford."

Who would want to live with that kind of talk coming into them from society every day?

Chilling and sickening.  Oh I pray it was not I who said that! 

[SKL]

I do see communities working on creating more community opportunities for people of all ages.  In particular I see more interest in community activities for elderly people, who might otherwise not have a reason to go out and be with other people.  To me that is so important.

The comment about strangers on the internet not being family - on one hand, we do develop relationships and concern for others we kind of "know" on the internet.  On the other hand, it probably isn't healthy in the long run to equate those "relationships" to the ones we should be having with our actual neighbors and relatives.  I'm sitting here right now talking to you people in cyber space when there is a person sitting next to me with whom I've exchanged few words today.  It probably should be the other way around.

[gardenmom5]

6 minutes ago, Tsuga said:

I think we don't value human life.

 

The lack of social support and social connection in the US is a huge problem, and the callous way people treat each other is making it worse.

I'll never forget what someone here said to me, "We aren't your family." That was chilling. It's that kind of thing that does lead to suicide. We aren't in it together, you can't count on us, nobody needs you, nobody wants you but your own. That's hard to live with. People only tell you you're worth something if you say you're going to kill yourself. But god forbid you have cancer and need health care. Then everyone's all about "Well you should have planned better. I'm sorry but it's not my job to take care of other poor planners."

Better to shoot yourself in the head then have no value.

that's terrible. I'm so sorry.

I agree, there are many who say they value people, but when it gets down to the nitty and gritty of everyday human interaction - their actions belie the claim.  (that isn't exclusive to any group I've seen it from those who claim to be very conservative religious to those who are very progressive and claim to be "enlightened" - their word.).  it's possible to disagree on things and still treat people with respect.

and valuing human life -  we all need to start by just, being nice.  I think just starting by giving people the benefit of the doubt could go a long way in getting past misunderstandings.

[Lady Florida.]

3 hours ago, Bambam said:

If you don't believe in God or any eternal being, and things are bad, then what is the reason to not? 

 

No. Just no.

ETA: That statement can only be made by someone who believes in a god and has no understanding of atheism (or even agnosticism). Not believing in a higher power does not in any way equal no hope, no reason to live. 

[Carrie12345]

3 hours ago, Bambam said:

I think it is because people have no hope. If you don't believe in God or any eternal being, and things are bad, then what is the reason to not? 

 

For one major reason, I don't want to destroy my childrens' lives.  Can you imagine if I were to suggest... Never mind.

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

 

??

That isn't what the part of my post you highlighted is referring to. Not at all. My post had nothing to do with whether churches believe in mental illness or not, but was about whether believing in God makes one mentally healthier/less prone to suicide.

 

I would amend that to:

Believing we are worthy of God’s love makes one mentally healthier/less prone to suicide. And being part of community that believes that too.

Whether someone believes in God or not, if they think they are unworthy of His love or that He doesn’t love them - belief isn’t going to be much comfort.

And sadly, there are too many churches that think believing in God makes everything okay. 

My church is very supportive of mental health services and provides to anyone for free or a nominal sliding scale.