TechWife Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I'd like to discuss the Paige Patterson fiasco with my fellow believers, so I've started a discussion on the Bible Believing Christians club if anyone would care to join me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I hadn't heard of the controversy. I can't imagine I can lend much to this conversation. My question is - I understand why the most conservatives do not advocate for divorce. I do. However, we need to protect women against violent men. In this day and age we recognize (and should have for years) that men beat women, not because women should sit down and shut up, BUT BECAUSE men have a sin nature and their anger works not the righteousness of God. Recognizing that abuse is not condoned by the Bible (as a man should love his wife as Christ loved the Church - sacrificially) then I do not understand why we don't call abuse a sin. We can call a sin a sin, we can choose to not blame the victim, and we can advocate for separation and reparation (keeping women safe from sinning and abusive men) while not going all the way to divorce and stay within biblical mandates. All very easy for me to say because I don't have to worry about my husband smacking me when he gets home from work tonight because the house is a mess, kwim? But this is a mess. More has surfaced about him and it's damning. We cannot condone abuse and by telling women to submit more, we say they were responsible for it happening and/or they can make it stop. They cannot. The sin lies with the fault of the sinner. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I never know who any of these people are in these controversies. . . 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Techwife, I can't join the group--I can't remember if I left it or not but it is not showing in my clubs. Jean in Newcastle, can you re-ad me? Actually, I can't even find it in the list of clubs. Why aren't they in alphabetical order?!!! Who wants to scroll thru 10 pages... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Chris in VA said: Techwife, I can't join the group--I can't remember if I left it or not but it is not showing in my clubs. Jean in Newcastle, can you re-ad me? Actually, I can't even find it in the list of clubs. Why aren't they in alphabetical order?!!! Who wants to scroll thru 10 pages... I will try but despite asking tech support here, I am not listed as a moderator of the group any more. But let me see what I can do. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Thx!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I can no longer identify as a Bible believing Christian, and mostly I shrug this stuff off when I read about it. Not my business any more. But I stumbled across an article about this last night and . . . wowzer. The SBC really, really needs to ditch this guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I've never sure if I count as a Bible believing Christian - it sometimes seems to be short for a literalism approach as in fundamentalism or evangelicalism. Is that what it means here? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aura Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bluegoat said: I've never sure if I count as a Bible believing Christian - it sometimes seems to be short for a literalism approach as in fundamentalism or evangelicalism. Is that what it means here? That's what I've found, at least in my area. Bible-believing Christan is synonymous with an inerrant, literal belief of the Bible. I believe the Bible, but I don't believe it was ever meant to for literal interpretation, so then I guess I don't fall under that mantle. ? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 " This group is for Bible believing born again Christians, who believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. We also believe in the Holy Trinity- Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe that Jesus Christ, son of God, died on the cross and rose again on the third day to save us from our sins. Our salvation comes from faith in Jesus Christ alone. There are no other gods. We look forward to spending eternity with our Lord and Father and other believers who have gone before us. We believe in living our lives for the Lord. " This is a private group. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I have been reinstated as a moderator but am working with tech support to figure out how to add people to the group. I don't see the options that I used to have to invite people. But we're working on it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/05/sbc-patterson/559532/ Quote Patterson was asked about women and quipped, “I think everybody should own at least one.” I hadn't heard about this guy before this thread, but I think I'm learning all I need to know about him... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, Mimm said: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/05/sbc-patterson/559532/ I hadn't heard about this guy before this thread, but I think I'm learning all I need to know about him... oh my Lord - me too. And he represents a Christian group of some kind? Terrible. I don't think I count as "Bible believing Christian" anymore either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I would like to be invited into this group. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebcoola Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I would like to join the group but can't find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Just now, rebcoola said: I would like to join the group but can't find it. It is by invitation only. I am noting the people on this thread who want to join but I'm still figuring out how to invite people. Please stand by! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 3 hours ago, BlsdMama said: <snip> Recognizing that abuse is not condoned by the Bible (as a man should love his wife as Christ loved the Church - sacrificially) then I do not understand why we don't call abuse a sin. We can call a sin a sin, we can choose to not blame the victim, and we can advocate for separation and reparation (keeping women safe from sinning and abusive men) while not going all the way to divorce and stay within biblical mandates. All very easy for me to say because I don't have to worry about my husband smacking me when he gets home from work tonight because the house is a mess, kwim? <snip> I agree with you, but... who is the "we" you are talking about? All my adult life I have heard abuse (child, spousal, elder) called sin from the pulpit. I've been in churches that actively helped women/children get away from abusive husbands. I've seen men disciplined and excommunicated and their wives and children supported (spiritually as well as financially). I don't see a general "us" (as in, all Bible-believing Christians?) not calling abuse a sin. ETA: Maybe churches that shy away from the notion of sin overall? Not sure the SBC is one of those? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said: It is by invitation only. I am noting the people on this thread who want to join but I'm still figuring out how to invite people. Please stand by! Jean, I am one, when you are able to add/invite people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeppermintPattie Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 21 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said: It is by invitation only. I am noting the people on this thread who want to join but I'm still figuring out how to invite people. Please stand by! Me, too, please! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, marbel said: Jean, I am one, when you are able to add/invite people. Jean, me too! Thanks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Please add me too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorien Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Jean, could you add me too, please? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 56 minutes ago, Mimm said: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/05/sbc-patterson/559532/ I hadn't heard about this guy before this thread, but I think I'm learning all I need to know about him... That's the article I read last night. This part is also a doozy -- First came another quote from the same audio clip, in which Patterson is heard telling a story about a female congregant of his who confessed to being abused by her husband. Rather than report the incident to the authorities or help the woman escape, he sent her back to her spouse and asked her to pray “not out loud, but quietly.” The woman returned the next Sunday with two black eyes, a sight which Patterson said made him “very happy” because it made her husband feel guilty enough to attend church for the first time. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cave canem Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Please count me in too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 2 hours ago, texasmom33 said: I just had to google this guy and the situation because I wasn't aware, but now Beth Moore's blog post earlier this week makes a lot more sense........ I looked up Patterson (had not heard of him) and then the Beth Moore post. Good for her. Now I have to hunt around for the club, let's see if I can find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Actions and attitudes such as those attributed to Mr. Patterson in the Atlantic article get women killed. That such actions and attitudes are coming from someone in a leadership position undermines the credibility of the organization he is leading as a legitimate source of moral guidance. Good, moral leaders respect and stand up for women's lives. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutTN Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said: It is by invitation only. I am noting the people on this thread who want to join but I'm still figuring out how to invite people. Please stand by! When you get it working, I would like to join too, if that is okay. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Can I be invited? I am a Christian but if I find that "Bible believing" doesn't fit me, I'll quietly step out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvToRead Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, texasmom33 said: Look at this. I can't believe this guy had the nerve to publish this post: http://pulpitandpen.org/2018/05/03/a-letter-back-to-beth-moore-from-seth-dunn/ The SBC has a big problem. I don't know who Seth Dunn is, but wow. I'm sort of speechless. I've been in a bubble I guess. I have never of heard of Seth Dunn either, but what an awful thing to say about another person. You can publicly disagree with someone else's Bible teaching and not the use phrase "I detest you". To me, this speaks volumes of the kind of person Seth Dunn is. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachyDoodle Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said: Seth Dunn is in the JDHall camp, I think. I think it was JD Hall that started Pulpit and Pen. You can google him and find out ... more. Yeah, that's Hall's group, and Pulpit & Pen is not exactly known for its... tact. I'd love to join the group as well, please, Jean -- whenever you get things ironed out. Thank you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, texasmom33 said: Look at this. I can't believe this guy had the nerve to publish this post: http://pulpitandpen.org/2018/05/03/a-letter-back-to-beth-moore-from-seth-dunn/ The SBC has a big problem. I don't know who Seth Dunn is, but wow. I'm sort of speechless. I've been in a bubble I guess. The internet platform really brings out the worst in some people. I have never heard of Seth Dunn either but he has done himself no favor with this letter. It is one thing to politely criticize or disagree with someone, inviting dialog and inspiring thinking, however, this letter does neither. It seems he has just vented with bad writing style. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutTN Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Here is the Christianity Today article which calls for Patterson to step down and explains some of the relevant SBC history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutTN Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said: but as much as she isn’t my cup of tea, the Beth Moore blogpost above was really good. Yes, I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/thabiti-anyabwile/apology-beth-moore-sisters/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 53 minutes ago, texasmom33 said: Look at this. I can't believe this guy had the nerve to publish this post: http://pulpitandpen.org/2018/05/03/a-letter-back-to-beth-moore-from-seth-dunn/ The SBC has a big problem. I don't know who Seth Dunn is, but wow. I'm sort of speechless. I've been in a bubble I guess. Wow. He thinks this article makes him look "like a theologian who loves Jesus"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Paige Patterson, on his advice to a victim of domestic violence. Worth a listen; start at 3:00. Does a man being saved justify a woman being beaten? Is she just the price that has to be paid for his salvation? Or is there another way? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I am Christian but I am often less literal than those who are "Bible believing." I'm interested in the group if you think I qualify. I don't understand how someone with advanced degrees who works with people doesn't know that: staying in domestic violence with children constitutes child abuse, it is one of the most frequent reasons for children being placed in foster care there is an 80% correlation between domestic violence and child sexual abuse abuse and addiction are the two circumstances where it has been proven that children are healthier and happier if their parents divorce. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, justasque said: Paige Patterson, on his advice to a victim of domestic violence. Worth a listen; start at 3:00. Does a man being saved justify a woman being beaten? Is she just the price that has to be paid for his salvation? Or is there another way? My word. He is off his rocker. This kind of "theology" makes Christians look like nutjobs. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneezyone Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 The SBC is in a league of its own on a variety of issues. I’m just gonna stick with my (other denomination) kinfolk. Where is that popcorn emoji when you need it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 19 minutes ago, texasmom33 said: I've gone through all ten pages of Clubs, and although I've found some highly entertaining Club Names, I cannot see the Bible Believing Christians anymore. ? I couldn't find it either. Which one were you tempted to join? :) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 20 minutes ago, texasmom33 said: I've gone through all ten pages of Clubs, and although I've found some highly entertaining Club Names, I cannot see the Bible Believing Christians anymore. ? You will not see it on a list of clubs because it is private. I'm still working with OtherJohn to be able to actually add members. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said: You will not see it on a list of clubs because it is private. I'm still working with OtherJohn to be able to actually add members. There went 20 minutes of my life..and while you guys discuss things, can you tell him to bring the emojis back as well. They show up as question marks. :) :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I've been in conservative groups for 40 years and have heard this thing over-and-over. Michael Pearl is another one who says the same thing. But on a bright note, there are conservative groups out there that hold men accountable. Truly! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintinative Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said: You will not see it on a list of clubs because it is private. I'm still working with OtherJohn to be able to actually add members. Could I please be added when you figure things out? Thank you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 5 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said: I never know who any of these people are in these controversies. . . I had to google it myself. Which is shocking, now that I've read about it. Seems it should be bigger news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintinative Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I saw Beth Moore's blog post but didn't know anything about the stuff with Patterson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I'd like to be added to the club. Kelly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurel-in-CA Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 May I [re]join please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 5 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said: It is by invitation only. I am noting the people on this thread who want to join but I'm still figuring out how to invite people. Please stand by! Jean, I would love an invite. Thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmom Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 5 hours ago, marbel said: I agree with you, but... who is the "we" you are talking about? All my adult life I have heard abuse (child, spousal, elder) called sin from the pulpit. I've been in churches that actively helped women/children get away from abusive husbands. I've seen men disciplined and excommunicated and their wives and children supported (spiritually as well as financially). I don't see a general "us" (as in, all Bible-believing Christians?) not calling abuse a sin. ETA: Maybe churches that shy away from the notion of sin overall? Not sure the SBC is one of those? Yes, I belong to a "Bible-believing" church, and this is my experience as well. Also, I'd like to join the club! :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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