My formerly estranged brother has cancer--doesn't look good. Can you help with conversation ideas? (long)

[Chris in VA]

Quick backround

My eldest brother died in 2004 of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. Now my other brother has it. His was caused by the anti-rejection drugs given to him after his double-lung transplant (he has cystic fibrosis). He had his transplant 16 and a half years ago. It was truly a lifesaver.

For various reasons, we stopped talking about a year after my brother died. I had had the feeling a couple of years ago that I'd better reconcile, but just couldn't find the words. My sister in law (I think it was her, not him) sent me flowers (from the both of them and their 2 kids) for my January birthday, and I wrote a short but heartfelt note saying thanks and saying I knew I hadn't been a very good sister or aunt but I'd like to try if they wanted. No reply. Seemed kinda odd, but I felt like I had attempted to heal the breach, at least a little.

Then in April, brother was diagnosed with lymphoma. They removed intestine and he has bowel cancer, too. SIL began keeping me in the loop, sending updates via email every week or so. Treatment has been difficult, complicated by his other issues.

 

Now she is asking me (just me, not my family) and my parents to come see him, so we bought tickets and I'm going up on Tues. til Thurs. He is in hospital, and maybe still will be. Visits will be one a day, about an hour. No touching, etc. It's hard. 

 

Well, that's an understatement.

 

I've cried my tears and had my little tantrum about going and being uncomfortable, and I'm willing to go and just endure it for a couple of days, hopefully helping my parents during our time at the hotel (we won't be spending any time at their home). It will be awkward to meet my nephews (adopted right after the transplant--I've only met one of them, and that was years ago), but I am looking forward a bit to that.

 

So--

 

Any conversation tips? Any ideas how I can spend that hour with my brother? He is older than me by about 5 years--we were never close, but for a long time there was no animosity between us, and I don't feel any now. 

 

How do I use these 2 hours or so and say goodbye to my brother? What do I do? I don't even know him any more. I don't want to offend him. We don't share a faith, or a worldview--I can praise him for being a good dad, but I can't really share a lot of memories with him. 

 

I am breaking inside. Any help would really be appreciated. 

[Anne in CA]

He probably doesn't even want conversation, he wants to see his family. Whatever you do will be well received. My MIL saw her estranged brother right before his death and they were just together and it was a really special memory for her. 

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Kassia]

No advice, just big hugs for you.   :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Selkie]

I'm so sorry.  :grouphug:

[Dynamite5]

How about starting by giving your gratitude for being invited? "I can't tell you how much it means to me to have been invited here to share this time with you. I am looking forward to our time together. Let's use it to catch up on all of our lost time and reconnect. I know it may be awkward for us, but I am honestly happy to have this opportunity. Thank you for reaching out."

 

It's not going to be any less awkward, but naming it, giving them kudos for reaching out, and telling them how you want to spend your time (I said catching up and reconnecting, but you should exchange that for your goals) should be a decent kick off.  You can always use, "I think I need to go for a short walk" or something if things begin to get tense. 

 

I might also go with the attitude that you are there to help your parents and give them the majority of the time, if this is truly a good-bye visit for them, too. 

 

This won't be an easy trip, I'm sure, but clearly they want you there or they wouldn't have extended the invitation. Hugs to all of you, as your family has obviously been through a lot, and it's not over.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Dynamite5

[chiguirre]

Can you make a list of happy memories you've shared from childhood? Memories of your parents or grandparents or your other brother? That would give you lots of new topics to turn to if you need to.

[magnificent_baby]

Read to him (if he wishes), run errands if you are able, take the kids on an outings (movie, museum), borrow their kitchen and make them a meal, frame a picture of your parents/family to keep in his room along with flowers. Do as much as you can in that short time to show them love in other ways since you won't be spending a lot of time with him. When my aunt was dying, we made necklaces from her fingerprint and they turned out beautifully. Perhaps you can either give a kit to his wife for later, or if he agrees, make them while you see him. 

 

Hugs!! 

[jewellsmommy]

:grouphug:   :crying:  I'm so sorry! I don't have any grand ideas, wish I did. I will pray for emotional strength for you and generally for your whole family.

[Rachel]

Did you have a good relationship prior to the estrangement?

 

Can you focus on the silly or fun memories you shared as children?

 

Tell him you love him.

 

I'm saying a prayer for you.

[bettyandbob]

I don't think you make a formal reconcile.

 

I think you tell him you love him and you tell him great stories (the time he scared off your awful high school boyfriend, the fort he built in the backyard, how your oldest still talks about wrestling with Uncle when he was 5, -- I'd make a list of happy times and talk in a stream of good memories).

 

I'm sorry. This stuff is awful to go through.

[Scarlett]

Quick backround

My eldest brother died in 2004 of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. Now my other brother has it. His was caused by the anti-rejection drugs given to him after his double-lung transplant (he has cystic fibrosis). He had his transplant 16 and a half years ago. It was truly a lifesaver.

For various reasons, we stopped talking about a year after my brother died. I had had the feeling a couple of years ago that I'd better reconcile, but just couldn't find the words. My sister in law (I think it was her, not him) sent me flowers (from the both of them and their 2 kids) for my January birthday, and I wrote a short but heartfelt note saying thanks and saying I knew I hadn't been a very good sister or aunt but I'd like to try if they wanted. No reply. Seemed kinda odd, but I felt like I had attempted to heal the breach, at least a little.

Then in April, brother was diagnosed with lymphoma. They removed intestine and he has bowel cancer, too. SIL began keeping me in the loop, sending updates via email every week or so. Treatment has been difficult, complicated by his other issues.

 

Now she is asking me (just me, not my family) and my parents to come see him, so we bought tickets and I'm going up on Tues. til Thurs. He is in hospital, and maybe still will be. Visits will be one a day, about an hour. No touching, etc. It's hard.

 

Well, that's an understatement.

 

I've cried my tears and had my little tantrum about going and being uncomfortable, and I'm willing to go and just endure it for a couple of days, hopefully helping my parents during our time at the hotel (we won't be spending any time at their home). It will be awkward to meet my nephews (adopted right after the transplant--I've only met one of them, and that was years ago), but I am looking forward a bit to that.

 

So--

 

Any conversation tips? Any ideas how I can spend that hour with my brother? He is older than me by about 5 years--we were never close, but for a long time there was no animosity between us, and I don't feel any now.

 

How do I use these 2 hours or so and say goodbye to my brother? What do I do? I don't even know him any more. I don't want to offend him. We don't share a faith, or a worldview--I can praise him for being a good dad, but I can't really share a lot of memories with him.

 

I am breaking inside. Any help would really be appreciated.

Just be there. I doubt you have to say much.

 

My heart is breaking for you. I am sorry.

[Lawana]

I just listened to a Shrink Wrap Radio podcast interview with a guy who was one of the early developers of hospice. He says that just being present is enough. Nothing need be said. The worst thing to do is appear and act as is the visitor needs comfort from the dying.

 

"I wanted to come and spend some time with you. If you would like to talk we will talk. Otherwise I would love to sit here with you." And focus on mentally sending energy and love to him. That keeps you "busy" without needing to "do" anything.

[catz]

I would say I've missed him and you're glad to be there.  I'd ask lots of questions about his kids and look for ways to connect to the next generation.  I'd share about your own kids too.  Ask what would be helpful to them while you're in town?  I doubt you'll need to say much at all.

 

I would especially focus on being supportive to your parents.  How hard for them. 

 

I'm very sorry.  I have found that anticipation for this type of thing is almost always worse than the actual event.  I'm sure you won't regret it.  :grouphug:

Edited July 14, 2017 by WoolySocks

[TCB]

I don't have any personal experience with this scenario but I would have some things prepared, childhood memories, photos to look at, but maybe see what he wants to talk about first. He may have some things he wants to discuss so you may find it's more listening and responding than coming up with things to talk about. I thought the idea of reading to him was a good one too, if he wants you to. Maybe take some photos of your family, where you live, your life, in case he does want to catch up. I'm sorry , this must be very hard.

[Guest]

Hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs

 

Say whatever is true, about yourself. Don't over think it if you can avoid it.

 

I have missed you. I am sorry. I think what you have accomplished is just wonderful. I wish you weren't in pain. I have been blessed [in some way] by having you as my brother.

 

Ugh. Hugs hugs hugs op.

[happi duck]

I just listened to a Shrink Wrap Radio podcast interview with a guy who was one of the early developers of hospice. He says that just being present is enough. Nothing need be said. The worst thing to do is appear and act as is the visitor needs comfort from the dying.

 

"I wanted to come and spend some time with you. If you would like to talk we will talk. Otherwise I would love to sit here with you." And focus on mentally sending energy and love to him. That keeps you "busy" without needing to "do" anything.

Ita with this.

 

many (hugs) op

 

.

Edited July 14, 2017 by happi duck

[MercyA]

I am so sorry, Chris.  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[PrincessMommy]

lots of hugs and prayer for you... others have given such wise advice.  

[displace]

Hugs and prayers :(

 

Maybe initiating conversations about his kids?

[fraidycat]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[3 ladybugs]

Can't you see him through glass or something else to have more time? I was on that floor once. I had a neutropedic fever. Can you skype with him or anything to break the ice before you see him?

 

How sad! Prayers for your meeting. 

[Guest]

Seconding and thirding that being there is the point.  

 

Instead of saying "I've missed you" say "It is good to be here with you."  The first can sound judgy even if you don't mean it that way.  I love the idea of having on hand pictures from your earlier days.  And the "It's good to be here ... talking or not" is a good approach.  

 

But the main thing I want to say is this:  May God bless this time you have, bring to it the richness of any needed forgiveness, offered or asked, and let this be a means to a peaceful parting.  (((You)))

[Chris in VA]

Thank you for your suggestions. They really help. 

My nephews will not be there the majority of the time we have. I can go to one of their games (tennis and hockey) but we are not spending time at their home.

I really can't be of much help.

 

My brother is basically starving to death. He has no energy because he can't eat. They are giving him IV nutrition starting tonight. He's down to around 120 lbs (he's 5'11") and the treatment is so harsh--it comes with nerve pain and screws up your body tremendously. If the cancer doesn't get you, the treatment does, iykwim. That's why we may only have an hour at a time. We can't touch him, hug him, sit next to him, breath on him--you know, talk closely. My parents can't hear very well, so I don't know how he's going to be able to talk clearly and loudly enough for them to understand, but I can help with that. 

 

He may, honestly, not even be awake. 

 

I do have some good memories. I have a book--Chancy and the Grand Rascal--that is his; my mom sent it to be years ago when she was clearing out stuff. She sent a couple of my other brother's books, too, and I wrapped them up and gave them to my nieces one year. I want to give it to my nephews and say I remember a time your dad read this in the car on a long trip, and he laughed so hard I still remember it. I can't bring it into the room with my brother, but I can give it to them. 

 

Thanks for your advice. 

[Miss Mousie]

Seconding Patty Joanna's suggestions.  

 

Honestly, after a first greeting I'd let him take the lead.  And I'd focus on helping my parents.

 

:grouphug:

 

I love your plans for the book.  That's so thoughtful and such a special gift.

 

 

[elegantlion]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Dynamite5]

Thank you for your suggestions. They really help. 

My nephews will not be there the majority of the time we have. I can go to one of their games (tennis and hockey) but we are not spending time at their home.

I really can't be of much help.

 

My brother is basically starving to death. He has no energy because he can't eat. They are giving him IV nutrition starting tonight. He's down to around 120 lbs (he's 5'11") and the treatment is so harsh--it comes with nerve pain and screws up your body tremendously. If the cancer doesn't get you, the treatment does, iykwim. That's why we may only have an hour at a time. We can't touch him, hug him, sit next to him, breath on him--you know, talk closely. My parents can't hear very well, so I don't know how he's going to be able to talk clearly and loudly enough for them to understand, but I can help with that. 

 

He may, honestly, not even be awake. 

 

I do have some good memories. I have a book--Chancy and the Grand Rascal--that is his; my mom sent it to be years ago when she was clearing out stuff. She sent a couple of my other brother's books, too, and I wrapped them up and gave them to my nieces one year. I want to give it to my nephews and say I remember a time your dad read this in the car on a long trip, and he laughed so hard I still remember it. I can't bring it into the room with my brother, but I can give it to them. 

 

Thanks for your advice. 

(Bolding mine) Honestly, this is so much different from "doesn't look good" that I'm not sure my advice from my first post would be helpful, unless you speak with his wife. Best to all of you during this time. 

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:

 

I agree with up thread.  Keep this very, very simple.  Don't even inadvertently be seeking some sort of official reconciliation.  I wouldn't bring up the estrangement at all, even in a round about way.  He may not have the emotional/physical energy at all for anything, much less something like that.  I wouldn't even be working on small talk.  I doubt he would have energy for that, either.  Smile, make eye contact, tell him you are there for him and his family and let him decide if he wants anything more.  Bring the book, share it with his children or your SIL if the opportunity arises, ask if she knows of anything else you and your family can do and then just be there.  Don't try for too much.  If the conversation flows a bit, ask about his kids, share any positive stories you have from childhood, but keep it simple.  And try to keep the emotional weight out of the conversation if you can, unless HE chooses to go there.  Even then, keep it simple.

 

:grouphug:

[JoJosMom]

Thank you for your suggestions. They really help. 

My nephews will not be there the majority of the time we have. I can go to one of their games (tennis and hockey) but we are not spending time at their home.

I really can't be of much help.

 

My brother is basically starving to death. He has no energy because he can't eat. They are giving him IV nutrition starting tonight. He's down to around 120 lbs (he's 5'11") and the treatment is so harsh--it comes with nerve pain and screws up your body tremendously. If the cancer doesn't get you, the treatment does, iykwim. That's why we may only have an hour at a time. We can't touch him, hug him, sit next to him, breath on him--you know, talk closely. My parents can't hear very well, so I don't know how he's going to be able to talk clearly and loudly enough for them to understand, but I can help with that. 

 

He may, honestly, not even be awake. 

 

I do have some good memories. I have a book--Chancy and the Grand Rascal--that is his; my mom sent it to be years ago when she was clearing out stuff. She sent a couple of my other brother's books, too, and I wrapped them up and gave them to my nieces one year. I want to give it to my nephews and say I remember a time your dad read this in the car on a long trip, and he laughed so hard I still remember it. I can't bring it into the room with my brother, but I can give it to them. 

 

Thanks for your advice. 

 

I am so sorry for your pain.  :grouphug:

 

Sitting with the dying is so hard; it's difficult to know what to do sometimes.  My paternal grandmother suffered a stroke and refused treatment, so she essentially died of dehydration.  Even though she was unable to speak, she clearly responded to me reading her Bible to her.  My maternal grandmother, once she began the active dying process, preferred quiet (although before that she loved to be read to and chatted with, even though she had lost the ability to speak months before.)

 

I know that you can't take your brother's book into his hospital room, but would it be possible to bring something that could be cleaned, like a phone or other electronic device?  Perhaps you could read and record segments of the book and play them for him?  Even if he is not able to communicate directly, it might be a way for you to share a happy memory.

 

I will pray for you and for your family.

ETA:  One other thought, about reconciliation.  I agree with others that, if your brother is conscious and lucid, that you should not push it and should let him take the lead.  If you are losing him, however, and he cannot speak, personally I would take the time to apologize and extend forgiveness to him.  I lost my brother to a stroke.  Although we were not completely estranged, there were things in our past that were a barrier between us.  I am glad that I had the chance to offer forgiveness and to tell him that I will always love him, even if I don't know whether he knew that I was there.  Again, I'm sorry for your pain.

Edited July 14, 2017 by JoJosMom

[ScoutTN]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I will be praying for your visit! 

[Alicia64]

My sister and I aren't close -- we don't speak -- but if one of us were going I'd love to be there for her, and vice-versa.

 

Just to hear you say how much your heart is breaking would likely be an incredible gift.

 

I read just the other day that we're all on devices . . .  seeking contact. That we all really want contact with each other.

 

Hang in there,

 

Alley

Edited July 14, 2017 by Alicia64

[Rosie_0801]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[applethyme]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: 

 

When my father was dying in the hospital, we had been estranged for several years, I got the call to see him.  I found a variety of old photos and went and photocopied several per page and put them in a plastic sleeve and placed those in a small three ring binder that I decorated.  I did this so that if the book became lost, I would still have the original pictures.  I left that book with him. it became a conversation starter for many people coming to say goodbye.  By having the book present, friends and family could page through and reminisce with him.  

[Guest]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

When my father was dying in the hospital, we had been estranged for several years, I got the call to see him. I found a variety of old photos and went and photocopied several per page and put them in a plastic sleeve and placed those in a small three ring binder that I decorated. I did this so that if the book became lost, I would still have the original pictures. I left that book with him. it became a conversation starter for many people coming to say goodbye. By having the book present, friends and family could page through and reminisce with him.

Great idea. I was going to suggest scanning the photos and uploading to a digital frame. It's just another way of doing the same thing but the digital frame is completely non-energy use for the viewer.

 

I'm yhinkkng of getting one to use just for this "loaner" purpose. It's becoming more frequent an occasion in my life to need something like this. Alas.

[Starr]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  You will know when you get there. But oh wow, not being able to touch him. I'm so sorry. My brother enjoyed hearing old fun family stories.

[Pippen]

:grouphug: Hugs to you. I think the picture idea is lovely and I agree that you'll know what to say when you get there. 

 

I had a long reply written last night which disappeared when I tried to post. No time to repeat it now, but I will say when it came to visiting my father for his last weeks in hospice, it had all the makings of a disaster. My brother had been estranged from him since helping my father's 4th wife get out of the situation, me--the daughter who kept him at arm's length because of his history of toxic relationships, a 5th wife who was doing the caretaking despite being separated from him, friends and neighbors who had done much to care for him through his long illness.  

 

Obviously all of us had rocky relationships with him, but what happened is we all converged upon the VA hospital and made my dad's last weeks on earth as peaceful and comfortable as possible. We met his 5th wife for the first time in hospice, and got along beautifully with her (and still keep in touch.)  My brother didn't have any need for himself to reconcile, but my dad did and kept asking for him. He was slipping away from consciousness when my brother arrived, but he roused long enough to say he was sorry and ask forgiveness. Between the two us it wasn't like a daughter saying farewell to a beloved father, but it was enough that my father felt at peace. 

 

 

I dreaded going, and it definitely put me out of my comfort zone, but it didn't matter, because for these few days out of my lifetime it wasn't about me, it was about moving beyond the circumstances that had led us all there. The rest of us were able to handle the relationships in a mature way that my dad wasn't able to--so much so that the staff at the hospital kept walking in and commenting that we'd not met before. I won't say it wasn't hard, but not in the ways that I had dreaded. It was hard because of the regret for what could have been and wasn't possible with my dad.

 

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by Pippen

[Guest]

:grouphug: Hugs to you. I think the picture idea is lovely and I agree that you'll know what to say when you get there. 

 

I had a long reply written last night which disappeared when I tried to post. No time to repeat it now, but I will say when it came to visiting my father for his last weeks in hospice, it had all the makings of a disaster. My brother had been estranged from him since helping my father's 4th wife get out of the situation, me--the daughter who kept him at arm's length because of his history of toxic relationships, a 5th wife who was doing the caretaking despite being separated from him, friends and neighbors who had done much to care for him through his long illness.  

 

Obviously all of us had rocky relationships with him, but what happened is we all converged upon the VA hospital and made my dad's last weeks on earth as peaceful and comfortable as possible. We met his 5th wife for the first time in hospice, and got along beautifully with her (and still keep in touch.)  My brother didn't have any need for himself to reconcile, but my dad did and kept asking for him. He was slipping away from consciousness when my brother arrived, but he roused long enough to say he was sorry and ask forgiveness. Between the two us it wasn't like a daughter saying farewell to a beloved father, but it was enough that my father felt at peace. 

 

 

I dreaded going, and it definitely put me out of my comfort zone, but it didn't matter, because for these few days out of my lifetime it wasn't about me, it was about moving beyond the circumstances that had led us all there. The rest of us were able to handle the relationships in a mature way that my dad wasn't able to--so much so that the staff at the hospital kept walking in and commenting that we'd not met before. I won't say it wasn't hard, but not in the ways that I had dreaded. It was hard because of the regret for what could have been and wasn't possible with my dad.

A beautiful post.  Thank you.  I hate it when a post I made gets eaten by the internet, and wonder if that is not God's way of telling me to stick a sock in it.  I am glad you did not stick a sock in it.  This was a beautiful and honest post.

[Melissa in New York]

I just listened to a Shrink Wrap Radio podcast interview with a guy who was one of the early developers of hospice. He says that just being present is enough. Nothing need be said. The worst thing to do is appear and act as is the visitor needs comfort from the dying.

 

"I wanted to come and spend some time with you. If you would like to talk we will talk. Otherwise I would love to sit here with you." And focus on mentally sending energy and love to him. That keeps you "busy" without needing to "do" anything.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. In our church I oversee our compassion ministry which encompasses quite a broad spectrum of people situations. One thing I have learned the most is just to be there. Don't worry about what to say. It's usually best you don't speak. Let that person take the lead and just listen. Maybe say "I'm sorry". Bring a cold glass of water (if feasible). Cry with him.

 

Really, most of the time words are not necessary. You showing up is the best.

 

The concern you are showing here with us will show when you see him. And that is all that is needed.

 

All the best,

~melissa

Edited July 16, 2017 by Melissa in New York

[katilac]

 

ETA:  One other thought, about reconciliation.  I agree with others that, if your brother is conscious and lucid, that you should not push it and should let him take the lead.  If you are losing him, however, and he cannot speak, personally I would take the time to apologize and extend forgiveness to him.  I lost my brother to a stroke.  Although we were not completely estranged, there were things in our past that were a barrier between us.  I am glad that I had the chance to offer forgiveness and to tell him that I will always love him, even if I don't know whether he knew that I was there.  Again, I'm sorry for your pain.

 

A million times this. I had the same situation - not estranged, but definite barriers. We had already discussed many things (at my sister's lead) before she seemed to drift into unconsciousness, but I again took the chance to both apologize and forgive and offer love. And always assume that they do know you are there and can hear - we didn't think my sister would wake up again at that point, but she opened her eyes and said a few relevant words when I was talking to her. Actually startled the daylights out of me, lol. 

 

I personally consider that it was a great gift to have the chance to knowingly say goodbye. Once you get past the first shock, it gets much easier to sit with them and offer comfort - sometimes practical comfort, sometimes just your silent presence. 

[mominco]

:grouphug: