Update - So, if liberal/progressive Christianity is not an option . . .

[Jenny in Florida]

I just thought those who were so helpful and encouraging when I was feeling really down about this might like to know that I think I may have found a new church home.

 

Several weeks ago, I decided I should try the larger UCC church again. When I had visited there before, I had not felt inspired by their minister and had gotten kind of a cold vibe from the congregation. But they do have a wonderful music program. So, I looked up the website to find out what time the service begins, and I remembered that they have called a new minister since my last visit. I read some of his blog and watched a couple of sermon videos and got very excited. It seems that, with the new leadership, they have enthusiastically embraced the "progressive" label. 

 

I visited for the first time that weekend and have pretty much been going back every week since. I don't know whether it's me, the change brought about by the new minister or some combination of factors, but it feels like a very different place than it did the last time I went.

 

Today, I forced my little, old introverted self to attend an informal gathering for people who want to learn more about membership. I met the minister and a few members of their board and walked away feeling ready to try picking an activity in which to get involved.

 

So, basically, thanks so much to those who encouraged me to keep trying and who didn't treat me like I was crazy for thinking that it's possible to be a "Christian" the way I feel myself to be. It's amazing to know I'm not alone.

 

 

*******************************  (Original Post Below) ************************************

 

 

Where else should I look?

 

I'm having my annual post-holiday meltdown about missing connection to a church community. Although the issue is pretty much always on a slow simmer for me, it comes to a rolling boil around every holiday. The rest of the family seemed to take it for granted that we would go to service at the old church on Christmas eve, for example, and I went in the name of tradition. But I realized as I was getting dressed that I hadn't even set foot in that church since the same service a year before. And as I sat through the service feeling utterly unmoved and uninvolved, I realized it just isn't "home" anymore.

 

From the time I was in college until just a couple of years ago (about 25 years, all told), I attended Unitarian Universalist churches/fellowships. It was a big part of my life, even as I found myself less and less fed by the actual spiritual part. It was still my extended family, my emotional home. Then we had a falling out with the leadership of the local church, and, although I have let go of the actual disagreement and despite my best efforts to do so, I just was not able to find my way back to feeling right about being there.

 

Even before the falling out, I was reading and researching and searching, because I was feeling strongly that I needed more than I was finding at that church. I had resigned myself to trying to make it work, because my kids were both involved, and it was a place that worked for all four of us. (My husband is not interested in the church part, but was involved in the community.) But then, when we took a break following "the incident," it was kind of the straw that broke the connection for me. I continued to try and go for a while, but it didn't feel right. And once my daughter quit going (mostly because of her work schedule) and my son made it clear that he was absolutely uninvested in whether I went or not, I just sort of drifted away.

 

In the intervening couple of years, I've done a veritable ton of research on various faiths and denominations. What really calls to me, what resonates with my heart, is a very liberal/progressive flavor of Christianity. I've visited every church in this city that seems vaguely possible as a fit, but without any serious success. 

 

Then I read comments in threads here and think, oh, I must have it all wrong, anyway. Clearly, I don't understand Christianity at all and don't belong there.

 

The thing is, though, that--unlike my husband and son, for whom "church" serves a primarily social function--I really do crave spiritual/religious connection. And for a variety of reasons, I could certainly benefit from some support these days. In the past, I've had a lot to offer a church community, and maybe I'll be in that place again, but it's never going to happen if I can't find the right door to walk through.

 

My daughter keeps raving about the UU church she's attending in Brooklyn (where she lives now), and I'm thrilled for her. But Brooklyn is a bit of an unrealistic commute from Orlando. There are exactly two UU churches in town. The only one other than the one we no longer belong to is significantly smaller and is lay led, which isn't a format I can get excited about when I'm searching for more spiritual/religious content, rather than less. So, switching to another church of the same denomination isn't workable.

 

I've visited churches of a variety of denominations (Episcopal, three UCC, Lutheran, Unity, two different United Methodist, Metropolitan and more I can't remember right now). One or two call to me more than the others, but none feel "right." And now I'm thinking that Christianity just isn't going to be my place.

 

I've done that Belief-o-Matic quiz so many times I can recite my results by percentage. I come out nearly tied for secular humanism (which is a definite mis-fire) and UU (which isn't helpful, under the circumstances), followed by "liberal Christian Protestantism" (which seems to be what I thought I was looking for and now feel either isn't present here or isn't what I thought it was) and liberal Quakerism.

 

While I definitely do have Quaker leanings, the services don't call to me. (Yes, I've attended previously.) For one thing, despite my non-traditional theology, I do feel fed by beauty and, especially, really good music during services. And, although UU services often feel to me too much like a lecture instead of a sermon, I do need something articulate and intellectual to chew on. So, the unprogrammed thing--all we have in town--isn't a fit for me.

 

I really do feel a little bit like I'm sinking, here. (I don't want that to sound over-dramatic. I'm not "depressed," exactly, just feeling a bit emotionally adrift.) I keep sailing my little boat to different ports and docks, but I haven't yet found the right place to tie up and stay a while.

 

What am I missing? Where else can I look? If neither the UUs nor the Christians are my family, who else might be? Can anyone recommend resources that might help me do more research or present some alternatives with which I'm not yet familiar? Am I really alone out here?

 

 

[hornblower]

So.... I'll suggest something that might be way off but.... I'm going to assume the secular humanism is not a misfire and suggest this book: Waking Up: A guide to spirituality without religion by Sam Harris

[MarinesWife]

Hugs to you.  Could you try the Episcopalian and Lutheran churches again?   Are there any ELCA lutheran churches in your area?  They are very liberal, but I know a lot depends on the pastor.  I attended one for 4 years and we had 3 different pastors in that time (one retired, then an interim, then a new one), and the interim was very progressively liberal and while I am not, he gave me a lot to ponder and think on.  I appreciated all 3 pastors for their differences.

 

Perhaps attend one of them for longer.. ??

[Rosie_0801]

For thinking material, not because I'm convinced it's the right path for you, try reading the Higgenbotham's book on Christopaganism.

 

 

 

Being a liberal Christian seems perfectly respectable to me, and I don't really understand why you can't be one. 

[LucyStoner]

Maybe visit a Buddhist temple or meditation center?

[albeto.]

While I definitely do have Quaker leanings, the services don't call to me. (Yes, I've attended previously.) For one thing, despite my non-traditional theology, I do feel fed by beauty and, especially, really good music during services. And, although UU services often feel to me too much like a lecture instead of a sermon, I do need something articulate and intellectual to chew on. So, the unprogrammed thing--all we have in town--isn't a fit for me.

 

I grew up in a Quaker family and converted to the Catholic faith. One of the reasons I felt the RCC was a good fit was because there are many Saints who seemed to embody the very qualities of Quakerism I was familiar with and comforted by. I found the rituals to be enormously satisfying. The experience felt holistic. All my senses were being invited to this party, a party that my intellect and emotions were thoroughly enjoying. I felt I was a part of a long history, a family that spanned the centuries as well as the globe.

 

That didn't last (I'm an atheist, but I gather you know that by now), and for a while I felt this... lacking, too. I really did adore the rituals of the RCC, until the theology and everything the rituals symbolized became problematic to me intellectually and ethically. Then they weren't so much a comfort as an awkward repetitive behavior designed to keep certain habits strong, and when I disagreed with what those habits promoted, I couldn't enjoy the ritual anymore.

 

I found the "missing piece" by contributing to different things. I'm a part of a greater history in other charitable works for my community. I feed my senses through other media. I get my intellectual freak-on by talking to people and reading books that challenge me and expose me to new information. So, I have all the same things, just not in one place at one time on a schedule. Perhaps you can find outlets for your needs without compromising other needs.

 

In any case, best of luck. I hope you find something that brings you comfort and peace.

 

:)

[texasmama]

What you speak of yearning for reminds me of AA or other 12 step groups. If you even vaguely fit into one, you might give it a try. It's out of the box but you are in seeking mode so I wanted to toss that out.

[Anne in CA]

I really feel your pain, as someone who lives where there are no churches available to me at this time. You feel there must be something out there to feed your spiritual side, and maybe there is, but you may not find it in a conventional way. 

 

United Church of Christ is VERY liberal/ progressive and some of the churches are very spiritual, so it may be worth a look for you if there are any in your area.

 

I think you might consider doing an Alpha course to consider if you really do have any ties to Christianity at all. I am a Christian, but I have a lot of trouble with current theology/ dogma, and Alpha course helped me clear up some of what I really believe and what I don't. The leadership is very pro discussion, discourages putting down anyone's thoughts or promoting any particular theology although Alpha was designed by Anglicans.

 

If you think about it and really don't have ties to Christianity there are probably people on the board who could help you safely explore New Age for a spiritual experience that is not based in Christianity. I really hope you find what you are looking for. One thing I believe in that the Bible says is that anyone who diligently searches for truth WILL find it. So I always like to encourage someone who is really looking, because I am sure you will be rewarded in your search, even if your search is not conventional. Finding God is often not as easy as repeating a sinner's prayer and attending the closest church to your house. But IME, God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek.

[Incognito]

Thinking outside the box here: I'm sure I've heard of online churches - perhaps you could find one and attend in a virtual world?  There are also a lot of radio stations that broadcast spiritual instruction - you could find one/some that fit with your theology to get some "feeding" while you are looking for community.  Lots of audiobooks (or regular books) too.

 

FWIW, I feel more connected to people and places when I am a contributor.  So I would venture to guess that you won't really feel connected to a community anywhere until you find a way you can give of yourself as a part of it - even if it is not in the same capacity you would have in the past.

 

It's hard to be in a state of transition.  Maybe you could set aside a certain time each week to pursue your search - that would at least give you some framework to what you are trying to figure out.

 

HTH

[TravelingChris]

Hi Jenny,

 

   I understand what you mean about music.  I attended a Jazz Christmas Service and the part that really moved me was the trio doing I wonder as I wander while we quietly prayed, first about how we have failed God, then how about praising or thanking God and then about asking for prayers for others.  I found it much easier to keep my mind on the praying with the music.  I know it isn't a suggestion for you but just how I get what you mean about music in services.

 

I would also suggest trying maybe another Episcopal, Lutheran or UCC church.  There are some very liberal Christian churches in both Methodist and Presbyterian USA too.  Mine wouldn't qualify but I know there are some since in some cities I had difficulty finding non liberal Methodist or Presbyterian church. 

 

I don't remember if I said anything in the other thread, but as a more traditional Christian, I still really believe that there are places for liberal Christians to have a meaningful faith experience.  I hope you find the right place for you.  I never lived in your area of Fl so I can't recommend specific churches but I will pray for you to find a place you will find comfortable.

[Farrar]

No advice, just to say I feel you. I grew up in an unbelievably nurturing liberal Christian church. I worked in Quaker education for many years. We used to attend a UU church but grew frustrated with the disorganization there. And now I have no church home and am also not sure what I really want from one. Sometimes I think I'll just start attending Meeting, but I know it would be without anyone in my family. Sigh.

 

BTW, I know that a goodly number of unprogrammed Quaker meetings have music beforehand. Just a sort of pick up the hymnal and sing sort of thing, sometimes not before every MFW though - just once a month or something. Not sure if that makes a difference or not...

[Liz CA]

Have you tried a non-denominational church in your area or several? I know nothing about churches in Florida, but here on the West coast, we have any number of non-denominational churches that each have their own flavor. In some, music is of paramount importance (I am thinking specifically of the Vineyard), others emphasize teaching or serving.  Some are more Pentecostal than others.

[Joanne]

You know I feel you. {{hugs}}

I hope that when I share my outcome of a very similar journey, it does not lead you away from Christ as you understand him.

 

Maybe a Course in Miracles study group would help?
 

I have always liked Richard Foster's work. Maybe a foray into spiritual disciplines?

At the end of my Christianity, I did a lot of retreats while seeking. I found them very, very helpful.

 

Maybe email this church and ask for advice?
 

http://houseforall.org/

 

Have you read Proverbs for Ashes?

 

ETA:

You are probably already familiar with this site:

 

http://progressivechristianity.org/

[happi duck]

(Hugs)

 

I long for a spiritual family. What I mean by that is like minded people who look out for each other and encourage and support each other in doing stuff that puts good out into the world.

[SeaConquest]

What is your relationship with Jesus? After searching every flavor of Christianity, I realized that I didn't believe in the fundamental tenets of Christianity. I converted to Judaism in my early 30s. Have you ever been to a synagogue or mosque? More thinking outside the box...

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Have you attended an Eastern Orthodox Christian church? You would remember the experience if you had as it wouldn't blend in with any of the churches you mentioned. I was true blue spiritual but not religious my entire life. I was drawn to Eastern religions as an adult, particularly Daoism. I longed for a Christian church that was Eastern and was literally dumbfounded when I came to understand that Christianity is Eastern and that the only Church that has undergone practically zero deviations from the original Eastern theology and worship has been around all along (not a claim, but a reality) from the Apostles until now. Anyway, it doesn't hurt to check one out. It's completely beyond the modifiers of liberal or conservatives but it's adherents are comprised of people from all across the spectrum. Yes it is traditional, so only married and never-married men can be priests which was initially a bit of a turn off for me until I came to truly understand the wisdom of this tradition. I wouldn't call Orthodoxy liberal or conservative, but I'd definitely call it radical and beautiful among other things.

 

ETA: Coming back to add that we were attending Friends meetings for a few months before we first attended an Orthodox Church, so I relate to that desire for social justice work within and by the church and this criterion was found in its fulfillment in Orthodoxy. Also, I am chiming in not because I need to 'save souls' but because you may not be aware of Orthodoxy. It is not mainstream in America. Anyway, good luck with your search!

[Alessandra]

I was going to suggest Buddhism too. I have a few friends who have chosen that path, and you remind me of them.

 

Another suggestion would be Eastern Orthodoxy, specifically Orthodox Church in America, because it is not as ethnically based as some other EO churches. Lots of converts. EO also has a strong tradition of mysticism. Look up apophatic vs cataphatic, if you are interested.

[ThisIsTheDay]

What you speak of yearning for reminds me of AA or other 12 step groups. If you even vaguely fit into one, you might give it a try. It's out of the box but you are in seeking mode so I wanted to toss that out.

 

I completely agree with this.  In this same vein, you might look at churches which draw a larger number of recovering addicts. The church won't be just those people, obviously, but those churches can tend to focus on the majors rather than the petty rules of what people "should" be, how they "should" vote, and where they "should" stand on social issues. You may find more true grace than those more middle-upper class churches who preach it and think they have it. 

 

(Please, I hope I didn't inadvertently use any wording that would offend.)

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well I think part of it is it takes time to feel like one belongs somewhere.  At least for me it does.  It takes me forever.  I don't think it is likely you will walk into a place and instantly feel like this is exactly the place you are looking for and everyone is all on the same page, etc. 

 

I haven't been to any churches lately, but I do feel this sort of sense of apathy most places I go.  I can't seem to find people who aren't just doing something because they are only going through the motions.  I don't quite understand that, but that's how it feels to me.  Of course it might be me. 

 

 

[Chris in VA]

There are about 20 Episcopal churches in your area. I'd look for one that has an Education for Ministry course and consider taking that. It's a commitment, although you can do it year to year (4 year course). Sometimes having one is a good indication of a more liberal church, but it's not always--we offer it and we are a mix of liberal folks and more conservative types (I am in my last year of the course and I'm more conservative, so there ya go...).

It's not my flavor of Episcopalianism (if that is a word!), but you have always struck me as someone who would fit very well in a really liberal Episcopal church.

If you search by website, some indicators that they are liberal would be words like, "inclusive," and they probably won't offer Alpha--also, they won't be an "Anglican" Episcopal church as that is a conservative breakaway (well, they have a beef with the mainstream Episcopal churches but don't really consider themselves breakaway). Most will have a sermon or two online, most will have some sort of backround info on their clergy (you might look for someone who went to Virginia Theological Seminary after 1990, but most won't list that) and most will have some details of their social action ministry. Look for lots of outreach. I can look and help you, if you want.

IDK, it just seems like a fit to me--but of course, YMMV.

You can pm me.

[sunflowerlady]

Of course you can be a progressive Christian. You just haven't found a local community. I get that because I don't have one either.

 

I hope you find something that works for you.

[73349]

I wonder if you might find community via one resource (say, a weekly volunteer commitment that will bring you together with others working for a shared purpose) and get inspiration from another (e.g., Church of the Larger Fellowship/Quest for Meaning).

 

Best wishes.

[Wheres Toto]

I learned in the past year (or so) that I definitely fit best in the Progressive/Liberal Christianity.  But finding that in practice may not be as easy.  I'm sure it was easier for me here in NJ where a lot of the churches are liberal comparatively speaking, then in other areas of the country.

 

We attend a United Methodist Church (which is also what I grew up with).  The pastor talks frequently about finding your own path, it not being necessary to agree with everything the "official" church stands for, to take what works for you and leave the rest.  He told us this at the meeting we went to before joining the church. 

 

I attended Catholic churches for a while (ex was Catholic, so is my mother) but I found the rigidity and rules were pushing me further away.

 

[bolt.]

While I am only slightly "progressive" in my Chistianity, I still want you to find what you want. So this is just a possible hint: is it possible that the "feels right" feeling might have a component of familiarity and comfort "like home"?

 

If so, it's logical that very few places of doing church will feel "like home" on your first visit, simply because it is your first visit, and therefore isn't at all familiar yet.

 

So, I suggest doing another round of visits to reasonable-candidate churches (that you have already tried) and going to each for 2 weeks in a row: to see how they feel once they aren't feeling unfamiliar and first-timey.

[StephanieZ]

I feel your pain. 

 

I've had this thought about why, as a liberal Christian who is flexible in church affiliation . . . it is particularly difficult to find and be "home" in a church long term. I think it is our very nature as being flexible in our denomination affiliation as well as our lack of conviction that showing up every Sunday is some moral imperative. Since it is ethically/religiously optional to us, then it is hard to stay committed to a church that is flawed or not a perfect match. Contrast that with plenty of cradle Catholics I know who stay convicted and committed despite profound differences with the entire church, let alone their local parish. I've had MANY Catholic friends who spent years or decades in serious internal conflict with some core teaching of their church, but rarely do they waver in their overall identity as Catholic or their commitment to their parish. I think this is because, for them, there is a fundamental moral imperative to remain connected, show up, etc, and so remaining so connected feels right even when they have complaints and disagreements . . . but, our commitment to a liberal UU congregation is 100% voluntary and there is no religious dictate that ever teaches us that we are bad people for distancing or leaving . . . so when even a small conflict arises, it feels wrong to stay.

 

I have married relatives in their 70s who met in a UU congregation during college. They've been in the same congregation for 40+ years. I remember them telling me some story about how they had been profoundly unhappy with some aspect of their leadership at some point 20-ish years ago . . . and they just waited until the minister they disliked left . . . maybe 5 years IIRC. It really made an impact on me that they just outwaited their minister! It was *their* church home, and they weren't leaving just because they disagreed with the *current* leadership! No wonder they've been members for so long! And, it is true, IME, that leaders tend to move on every few years. So, if you have staying power . . .

 

IME, I've regretted it every time I became seriously involved in a church. Eventually, the flawed leadership becomes apparent, and I lose my rose colored glasses . . . then church is no longer fun and all positive, but irritating and stressful. I've very much enjoyed several years at several churches . . . but only when I stringently avoided serious involvement in church politics or finances. I thrived when I accepted only limited (no real power or importance) leadership roles . . . but trouble arises when I accepted roles that gave me too much insight into the foibles of leaders . . . So, that's my best advice for future church roles. Only accept things like "grounds maintenance" or "organize kids' party" . . . no vestry, no finance committee, etc. :)

[livetoread]

Before becoming an atheist, I found a spiritual home as a progressive Christian in a liberal Presbyterian church that had a liturgical service with beautiful music. I like all kinds of music but am a music snob when it comes to church which eliminated most other churches. This one had a strong social justice flavor too, and it worked for me until I finally accepted that it didn't anymore.

 

It might be that you have to compromise on certain things and just get those elsewhere. The non-negotiables for me were the church couldn't discriminate against women so EO was out, and had to be pro-lgbti even if the denomination was not quite there yet (like Presbyterian USA). The other non-negotiable was style of service, especially music. I needed a high church, traditional style to satisfy my beauty-craving. I compromised on the community part since the people were nice but not a close community. My kids and I found that in our homeschool group, so the need was still met, but it would have been nice to get it all in one package. The youth program was so-so too, but my kids were never believers anyway so it was okay.

 

I remember what it felt like to feel adrift. I hope you find a home that feeds you.

[Runningmom80]

Just chiming in to say that you are singing my song.  I haven't even looked for a church in years because I got so discouraged. 

 

Personally I'm looking elsewhere spiritually.  I'm hoping the answer comes to me soon.

[MotherGoose]

nm

[ktgrok]

Can you say more about what you didn't like about the Episcopal church you went to? They vary a LOT from parish to parish, so maybe try another. I also have felt you would fit there. Beauty, litugrical, spiritual, but socially progressive. And open to a wide range of beliefs. 

 

That said, and this will sound pretty crazy, but what about attending a Catholic Mass or Eastern Orthodox service, or both? There ARE liberal, progressive Catholics. 

 

 

[Shellydon]

I think perhaps you need to decide what your beliefs are before you look for a place to worship. 

[ktgrok]

I sent you a private message. 

[Rachel]

I don't have advice on a particular church, but do you have friends from where you had the falling out? Could you start a home church or life group with a couple of those friends? It may not meet all of your spiritual needs but perhaps it would help.

[Jenny in Florida]

Thank you all so much for offering suggestions and support. If it's okay, I'm going to just toss out some general thoughts/answers in response to some of the questions folks have posted.

 

First, I think it's important that I maybe define my terms a little better. I'm using the terms liberal and progressive Christianity to refer to a non-literal, inclusive interpretation (more or less in line with the major points defined here: http://progressivechristianity.org/the-8-points/).It's not necessarily about politics, although I lean liberal there, too. Essentially, I feel a very strong pull toward Christianity and the Jesus story, but I don't/cannot accept it as literal truth. Instead, it resonates with me as a very powerful and meaningful metaphor. I feel extremely uncomfortable, or maybe 'dishonest' is a better word, participating in worship that puts a great deal of emphasis on a more literal understanding.

 

I'm also never going to feel welcomed in any community that places more importance on enforcing or following a set of rules or standards than it does on loving and nurturing actual people.

 

Both of my kids sang with choirs based at the Episcopal cathedral here in town. Between the two kids, I spent about 10 years visiting a lot of churches all over Central Florida, most of which were Episcopal. I do think that, if it were the right Episcopal church, it could be a good fit for me, since I feel very drawn to the beauty and ritual of the services and, especially, the music. However, in addition to the churches I visited kind of incidentally during the choir years, I've visited two Episcopal churches in the last couple of years specifically during my church hunting mission. One I went to just once and didn't make it through the service, although I can't now remember what it was that bothered me so much. The other I got through the service, but had no desire to return. The music was not my thing, the service was missing many of the elements that normally appeal to me, and I just did not feel like the sermon was directed to me.

 

I also visited one United Methodist church twice and another three times. One of them was small and homey and seemed nice, but almost too focused on stating and re-stating the inclusive thing. Also, the music was kind of painful. The other is quite large and has a thriving arts program, but the sermons felt sort of bland, and it was a very impersonal experience.

 

I've visited three UCC churches. The first one I felt generally positive about but was kind of a drive from my house. I put them on the back burner, figuring it was worth another visit later. When I went to look them up a couple of months ago to check the service times, I discovered the church has been shuttered. Another I've been to twice and found kind of cold and, at least on the days I visited, not especially welcoming to my somewhat offbeat theological interpretations.I do see that they have changed ministers since I was there last time, though. So, it may be worth another visit or two. The third I attended four times, I think. I felt fairly positive about it, but then things came up and I missed a few Sundays and I don't feel strongly enough about going back to do so. The music there, too, leaves much to be desired. And, although I have a sort of warm feeling about the minister, she has yet to say anything terribly thought provoking when I was present. 

 

I went to two different Unity congregations, once each, and listened to/watched a few additional sermons from each one online. What I read on the denomination's website feels possible to me, but what I hear in the sermons seems much more "power of positive thinking" than spiritual.

 

I've visited just one Lutheran church, I think. I walked out after the service feeling just sort of uninterested and uninspired.

 

I've also spent a fair amount of time on the websites of most of the churches I've visited and several others. I've downloaded and listened to sermons and read the "about us" pages and perused the newsletters and the lists of service projects. Honestly, they all blur within a very short time. It feels like all of them are putting the same information out there, using mostly the same buzzwords, and I have no idea how I'm supposed to be able to tell which are even worth a visit. I get myself all geared up for this, get out of bed, put on decent clothes, drive to yet another unfamiliar place where I don't know anyone, psych myself up to put on my social face and go . . . only to feel deflated and disappointed yet again. It's all pretty exhausting for introverted old me. And after a while, I just start to feel like I must be crazy, like I'm searching for something that doesn't exist.

 

And then I come here and read comments and discussions that suggest I really do have it all wrong. And I feel like that explains why I'm not finding my place.

[bolt.]

I don't think you have it all wrong. I think you deserve a home-church. I'm sorry it's hard on you.

 

When you feel that 'want to keep trying' feeling -- that's a good time to keep trying. When you feel that feeling of wanting to give it a rest... That's a good time for a rest. God isn't into high-pressure sales, so take your time. Time is a blessing too.

[Tsuga]

 

Essentially, I feel a very strong pull toward Christianity and the Jesus story, but I don't/cannot accept it as literal truth. Instead, it resonates with me as a very powerful and meaningful metaphor.

 

I find the Bahai community stifling, personally, but what you are talking about sounds a lot like the Bahai faith.

 

I'm a secular humanist. I miss a spiritual, metaphysical community. Luckily I have a like-minded family.

[PrincessMommy]

I'm glad you came back and explained a bit further.  It helped me to see that your search is much more than just about politics (when I see "liberal/conservative Christianity" my mind goes to politics -sorry). And of course, Christianity is about so much more than a political stance...it's just that here in America it gets all mixed up. I have no answers really...but I hope and pray you find a place of peaceful worship.  I don't think you're doing it wrong but I'd encourage you to keep looking...and keep looking.  In my tradition we embrace the idea that our hearts and souls are always searching for God.. the "longing sigh" as one theologian put it.   On one hand we need to have that desire satified (in finding a spiritual home) but in another understanding we will never find it this side of heaven.

 

 

[Chris in VA]

Oh Jenny, I'm sorry if I made you feel you have it all wrong.

:grouphug:

 

Thank you for clarifying more about your experiences and your beliefs.

 

I think you would be hard-pressed to find any Christian church that doesn't believe Jesus was a real, historical person. That would be a bit of a sticking point.

 

Maybe you should look somewhere else. :grouphug:  I don't know a lot about what you are describing, spiritually. It's not in my experience at all, so I'll bow out.

 

I don't have any ideas for you, but I do wish you peace on your journey.

[Chris in VA]

dp sorry

[Jenny in Florida]

Oh Jenny, I'm sorry if I made you feel you have it all wrong.

:grouphug:

 

Thank you for clarifying more about your experiences and your beliefs.

 

I think you would be hard-pressed to find any Christian church that doesn't believe Jesus was a real, historical person. That would be a bit of a sticking point.

 

Maybe you should look somewhere else. :grouphug:  I don't know a lot about what you are describing, spiritually. It's not in my experience at all, so I'll bow out.

 

I don't have any ideas for you, but I do wish you peace on your journey.

 

Oh, I do think there is good reason to accept that Jesus was a real, historical person, a role model and much more. I just can't make the leap from that to divinity.

[bolt.]

Although a person with a non-divinity view of Jesus should be (more than!) welcome at Christain churches... the idea of a somehow-worship-worthy Christ is pretty much why Christianity is called Christianity.

 

If that's what's bothering you during Christian worship experiences, you might need to not worry so much about feeling 'dishonest' while (at the same time) giving others 'permission' to think and speak of Jesus in that way, and to direct their worship to him -- because that's honest for them. It's ok to be together, and have differences... Even differences that you don't care to always reveal and casually chat about.

[zoobie]

I find the Bahai community stifling, personally, but what you are talking about sounds a lot like the Bahai faith.

 

I'm a secular humanist. I miss a spiritual, metaphysical community. Luckily I have a like-minded family.

I know next to nothing about Baha'i, but out of all my friends and acquaintances, the one woman who exudes spirituality (and creativity) is Baha'i. Not in an obnoxious evangelical way. Just if you asked me who is the most spiritual person I know, it would be this woman. Not any of the deacons or former missionaries or...

[ktgrok]

Honestly, you may be describing Islam to some extent. I have no idea if there is such a thing as progress Islam. The idea of Jesus as prophet, rather than divine, would fit. 

[Matryoshka]

I have married relatives in their 70s who met in a UU congregation during college. They've been in the same congregation for 40+ years. I remember them telling me some story about how they had been profoundly unhappy with some aspect of their leadership at some point 20-ish years ago . . . and they just waited until the minister they disliked left . . . maybe 5 years IIRC. It really made an impact on me that they just outwaited their minister! It was *their* church home, and they weren't leaving just because they disagreed with the *current* leadership! No wonder they've been members for so long! And, it is true, IME, that leaders tend to move on every few years. So, if you have staying power . . .

 

 

Our church has been going through a leadership change the past few years (longtime beloved minister left, then 2-year interim, now 6-month bridge minster, and our brand-spanking new minister is starting next week).  This is the attitude that I've kept in mind - that this is the congregation's church, not the minister's church.  That has helped.

 

I find the Bahai community stifling, personally, but what you are talking about sounds a lot like the Bahai faith.

 

On paper, I think many of my beliefs line up better with the Baha'is than the Christians, but I've also gotten the feeling that there's more to it than what's on paper (as there usually is). 

 

On the other hand, when I've taken the Belief-o-Matic, I've come up with some combo of Liberal Protestant (even checking off that I also don't believe in the divinity of Jesus) and Liberal Quaker.  UU and Secular Humanist are down lower.  Love the Quakers, but I don't think I could manage the sitting-in-silence services.

 

My church is a combined UU/UCC church.  I find most UU churches I've visited (and I know they're tremendously diverse) to be too spiritually vague and adrift, and even most liberal Christian churches focus a bit too much on Jesus (who I see more as a prophet/teacher, not God - so as far as worship goes, I'd like more focus on God).  It's like a very Christian-leaning UU church, or a really liberal Christian church.

 

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time, Jenny!  I'm guessing it might be harder in the south where things are more conservative (although you think all those northern snowbirds would help diversify things?)  But don't let the conservative Christians define Christianity for you. 

 

I think perhaps you need to decide what your beliefs are before you look for a place to worship.

 

 

GAH!  For me, anyway, I want a church that will be a safe place for me to explore my beliefs, to stretch them, challenge them, to make me think.  I would never want to go to a place that lined up with a certain way of thinking only and if any of my beliefs changed or were outside their proscriptions would not be a fit.  If you polled all the people at my church I don't think you'd find two people that agree completely in their beliefs.  We've got the range from Jesus-is-divine to atheists (with most in the middle but no one pressing on the particulars).  Love that!

 

Jenny, you are not wrong in your thinking.  I hope you find a spiritual home.

[Rosie_0801]

Honestly, you may be describing Islam to some extent. I have no idea if there is such a thing as progress Islam. The idea of Jesus as prophet, rather than divine, would fit. 

 

A couple of weeks ago I read a book called 'Green Deen' so yeah, Islam has it's progressive side. :)

[ktgrok]

Of course, Muslims still believe in the virgin birth, which I assume you don't. Honestly....have you considered Reform Judaism? (assuming you do believe in God in some way).  This sounded like you might enjoy it. Ritual, community, spirituality, but at least in Reform Judaism, a lack of dogmatic literalism.

http://www.convert.org/Judaism_and_Christianity.html

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

This is another good read, along with the Christopaganism book, which I still recommend for the personal testimony chapters- http://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Hunger-Integrating-Ritual-Daily/dp/1844095606This one is along the lines of what Sadie is saying.

[Tsuga]

Of course, Muslims still believe in the virgin birth, which I assume you don't. Honestly....have you considered Reform Judaism? (assuming you do believe in God in some way).  This sounded like you might enjoy it. Ritual, community, spirituality, but at least in Reform Judaism, a lack of dogmatic literalism.

http://www.convert.org/Judaism_and_Christianity.html

 

Yeah.

There are a lot of literalist issues she'd have to deal with in even the most liberal branches of Islam. Not to say unreasonable--but based on what she wrote, I have a hard time imagining her finding a mosque that's more liberal than, say, a Unitarian church.

[milovany]

Personally, I think you are struggling because you have three distinct needs, and you're trying to wrap them up in one package, kwim ?

 

Community

Beauty

Spirituality

If wanting these things within Christianity, I have found them in Eastern Orthodoxy, all three in very different ways than I experienced them as an evangelical. But for the OP, the issue of literalism might remain.

[Sahamamama]

Where else should I look?

 

I'm having my annual post-holiday meltdown about missing connection to a church community. Although the issue is pretty much always on a slow simmer for me, it comes to a rolling boil around every holiday. The rest of the family seemed to take it for granted that we would go to service at the old church on Christmas eve, for example, and I went in the name of tradition. But I realized as I was getting dressed that I hadn't even set foot in that church since the same service a year before. And as I sat through the service feeling utterly unmoved and uninvolved, I realized it just isn't "home" anymore.

 

From the time I was in college until just a couple of years ago (about 25 years, all told), I attended Unitarian Universalist churches/fellowships. It was a big part of my life, even as I found myself less and less fed by the actual spiritual part. It was still my extended family, my emotional home. Then we had a falling out with the leadership of the local church, and, although I have let go of the actual disagreement and despite my best efforts to do so, I just was not able to find my way back to feeling right about being there.

 

Even before the falling out, I was reading and researching and searching, because I was feeling strongly that I needed more than I was finding at that church. I had resigned myself to trying to make it work, because my kids were both involved, and it was a place that worked for all four of us. (My husband is not interested in the church part, but was involved in the community.) But then, when we took a break following "the incident," it was kind of the straw that broke the connection for me. I continued to try and go for a while, but it didn't feel right. And once my daughter quit going (mostly because of her work schedule) and my son made it clear that he was absolutely uninvested in whether I went or not, I just sort of drifted away.

 

In the intervening couple of years, I've done a veritable ton of research on various faiths and denominations. What really calls to me, what resonates with my heart, is a very liberal/progressive flavor of Christianity. I've visited every church in this city that seems vaguely possible as a fit, but without any serious success. 

 

Then I read comments in threads here and think, oh, I must have it all wrong, anyway. Clearly, I don't understand Christianity at all and don't belong there.

 

The thing is, though, that--unlike my husband and son, for whom "church" serves a primarily social function--I really do crave spiritual/religious connection. And for a variety of reasons, I could certainly benefit from some support these days. In the past, I've had a lot to offer a church community, and maybe I'll be in that place again, but it's never going to happen if I can't find the right door to walk through.

 

My daughter keeps raving about the UU church she's attending in Brooklyn (where she lives now), and I'm thrilled for her. But Brooklyn is a bit of an unrealistic commute from Orlando. There are exactly two UU churches in town. The only one other than the one we no longer belong to is significantly smaller and is lay led, which isn't a format I can get excited about when I'm searching for more spiritual/religious content, rather than less. So, switching to another church of the same denomination isn't workable.

 

I've visited churches of a variety of denominations (Episcopal, three UCC, Lutheran, Unity, two different United Methodist, Metropolitan and more I can't remember right now). One or two call to me more than the others, but none feel "right." And now I'm thinking that Christianity just isn't going to be my place.

 

I've done that Belief-o-Matic quiz so many times I can recite my results by percentage. I come out nearly tied for secular humanism (which is a definite mis-fire) and UU (which isn't helpful, under the circumstances), followed by "liberal Christian Protestantism" (which seems to be what I thought I was looking for and now feel either isn't present here or isn't what I thought it was) and liberal Quakerism.

 

While I definitely do have Quaker leanings, the services don't call to me. (Yes, I've attended previously.) For one thing, despite my non-traditional theology, I do feel fed by beauty and, especially, really good music during services. And, although UU services often feel to me too much like a lecture instead of a sermon, I do need something articulate and intellectual to chew on. So, the unprogrammed thing--all we have in town--isn't a fit for me.

 

I really do feel a little bit like I'm sinking, here. (I don't want that to sound over-dramatic. I'm not "depressed," exactly, just feeling a bit emotionally adrift.) I keep sailing my little boat to different ports and docks, but I haven't yet found the right place to tie up and stay a while.

 

What am I missing? Where else can I look? If neither the UUs nor the Christians are my family, who else might be? Can anyone recommend resources that might help me do more research or present some alternatives with which I'm not yet familiar? Am I really alone out here?

 

Conservative Christian here. I normally wouldn't have anything to say, really, because my experiences are from that end of the spectrum. But your post seems very much from the heart, and I do have a thought for you.

 

If you are drawn to some aspects of Quakerism -- is it the mystical element? the emphasis on the spiritual, more than the social? the simplicity? -- and you also need beauty, have you thought about the Roman Catholic or Greek Orthodox traditions? I don't know what your local Catholic or Orthodox churches are like, if you have those, but usually those churches do incorporate more beauty of surroundings, music, and liturgy than some Protestant churches seem to do. I think they also make more space for silence, reflection, and personal prayer, while still remaining in corporate worship. I don't know how important it is to you to align doctrinally. ??? What if, in this season of life, it's more meaningful for you to align experientially, and just not concern yourself as much at this point with all the particulars of specific beliefs?

 

Again, I wouldn't ordinarily advise this "feel it out" approach, becaue I do think that what we believe does matter. However, it is better to be where God can speak to you, than to die a slow death where you agree with the statement of faith. KWIM? I'm not being trite when I say, "Go where you can hear God speak to you." To me, that matters more than the label, liturgy, or other considerations.

 

I'd go out in the woods and be a hermit, if that's what it takes.

 

:grouphug:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tsuga]

Can I just say, WHY would anyone rate this topic "one star"? What the heck is that about?

 

I mean, there's no hate. There's no unkindness. There's one person's experience with a few groups of people and her search.

 

How is it beneficial to the community to low-star honest questions? I mean unlike on Amazon where other people need to know if a toaster will ruin your home's electrical wiring.