Older moms who are EXPERIENCED breastfeeders

[BlsdMama]

When you got older (40ish) did you fail to make enough milk despite successfully nursing other children?

 

I have successfully nursed, tandem nursed, extended nursed.... I know if every breastfeeding, safe herb available in the US useful for increasing supply. No pacifiers, no thumbs, and he co sleeps, nursing on demand.

 

I am insanely sore from nursing NON STOP, and yes, it's from nursing, not yeast, not a plugged duct, not mastitis. He wakes up constantly at night to nurse, at every movement, unless I give him a bottle, then he sleeps.

 

It's been nine weeks. I'm wondering if I'll ever be able to stop buying formula. :(

 

This baby cries and cries and cries. I give him a bottle of formula and he passes out.

 

I have been trying to solely nurse him. He wets without soaking. He's gaining. But the only time he's remotely content is when he's stuffed like a turkey fill of formula.

[zoobie]

Could it be reflux?

[gardenmom5]

my milk was less with dudeling. (I was in my 40's - everyone else was in my 20's)  he also was a terrible nurser - whether bottle or breast.  he just couldn't be bothered to eat.  I had to teach him why we eat!  he's still not a big eater - though he's doing better.

 

how is the baby's latch?  (I had one who sucked the tip. it "looked" right (it even felt like it was a good latch) - but it wasn't.  I was in so much pain I was ready to wean by six weeks.  Instead, I started really shoving myself down his throat and things got better.)

are you eating enough nutritious foods? 

are you getting enough rest?

[freesia]

No, I successfully nursed my youngest who was born when I was 41 for 2 1/2 years. It was the same pattern as my other 3--although they weaned slightly earlier.

 

Are you getting enough rest and fluids?

 

Is he tongue tied and maybe not nursing well?

[Elisabet1]

I am 44, pregnant, and still nursing my 3 yr old. I still make milk.

[Clear Creek]

My first was a very poor nurser, which resulted in low milk production. She would nurse for 45 minutes then be off for 45 minutes - around the clock. You would think with that much nursing I would have produced an abundance of milk, but in retrospect I can tell that I wasn't. My next two would just about drown with all the gulping while nursing for the entire nursing session...but my oldest never gulped, though, not once. I don't know if she just had a weak latch, was mildly tongue-tied, or what, but she only got enough nutrition to just survive until she started solid food. In retrospect I wish I would have had the experience to tell that something was wrong and to get off my high horse of nursing and put her on formula. I don't believe it harmed her in the long run, but I think I would have had a much easier go of it and I think she would have had a better start if she would have been on formula.

 

If your instinct is telling you that your son is only getting full from formula, then I would give it a short amount of time to figure out if there is anything you can do to get his nursing to increase your milk production (and it sounds like you have already done that), and either supplement the formula with nursing to keep the health benefits, or switch completely to formula. I don't normally make that recommendation (I am as pro-breastfeeding, child-led weaning, etc. as it gets), but I also believe strongly in listening to your momma instinct.

[prairiewindmomma]

Can you pump and see what your actual output is?

 

Of the five kids/12 years I have been breastfeeding, I have had two kids like that. Kid1, it was not a supply issue; it was reflux and an inability to self-soothe.  My last child (who I am still nursing), I did have supply issues....due to her preemie birth and month in NICU.  I pumped regularly, but it wasn't the same stimulation as nursing a baby.

 

In terms of your comfort, get some soothies (Walgreens & Target have them). http://www.target.com/p/lansinoh-soothies-gel-pads/-/A-12729475?ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001&AFID=google_pla_df&LNM=12729475&CPNG=Baby&kpid=12729475&LID=9pgs&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=12729475&kpid=12729475&gclid=COzB08yOm8ECFdRaMgodKAwArw

 

Are you getting a TON of water into you? Are you eating regularly?  If you are sure that you are drinking at least 12 glasses of water a day, and eating well (enough calories, no long gaps between eating) and when you pump or hand express you are getting decent milk (or you notice a fullness of bre__t that deflates after nursing), I would start looking at his issues....

 

As an experienced mother, I would assume that you understand all of this....but with the sleep fog, I'm just making sure the boxes are checked.

 

So, for me, I solved my supply issue by babywearing constantly and logging my water intake.  In the end, preemie baby needed some heavy duty reflux meds. Once we got both of our selves sorted out, we have had a happy nursing career despite me needing to exclusively pump during surgeries, etc.  She is now almost 2 and still nursing.

[clemota]

A couple of thoughts:

 

1 - Is he sucking in his bottom lip at all when he nurses?  Sometimes it's hard to see - you're more likely to notice it in a football-style hold than any other.  Any kind of irregular flange could indicate that he's not latched on as well as he could be, and isn't getting the milk he needs.

 

2- Although I strongly doubt it based on your description, it could be a food intolerance.  Have you tried eliminating dairy and/or wheat from your diet?  Something that YOU eat, but the formula does NOT contain?

 

3-Tongue-tie.  Can he stick out his tongue very far?  (lol, I know, you can't exactly have him do it on demand).  Even a slight tongue tie could effect his ability to nurse - especially as he grows.  Here's a site that explains what to look for.

 

4- Stress.  Any major stress beyond new baby in the house?

 

I'll keep thinking about this, but from all of my research, unless you have had major surgery in the breast tissue area, or are on any drugs, you should not have issues with milk supply.  Age shouldn't be an issue.

 

ETA:  Ditto to the water intake suggestion.  It seems obvious but I think that new-baby business makes us focus on the new babe so much that we forget as moms to take care of our own needs.

[AnnE-girl]

I don't have experience as an older nursing mom, but tongue-tie immediately came to mind.  I follow Dr. Jack Newman on Facebook and he just had a post about tongue-tie causing nursing problems, but many care providers don't look for it.  I hope you are able to find some answers.

[VeritasMama]

I had problems with supply with my last baby, number 7, and I am only 34. I had some health issues that I think played into it, my thyroid stopped working and I was dealing with anemia after the birth. Both of these issues can cause problems with supply, a bad latch can also affect things. Stress and exhaustion take their toll as well, and who isn't exhausted with a new baby?

 

It also may not be te formula, but the bottle that is satisfying him as it is faster and less work. A poor or improper latch could be causing the soreness, and if he isn't emptying the breast effectively eventually the supply dwindles. Also, sometimes babies get a good latch but they are slightly tongue tied which means they can't effectively suckle.

 

My sister had a situation very similiar to what yours sounds like, her son ha a very mild case of ankyloglossia, or "tongue tie." It was so mild the doctor didn't recommend any treatment, but he just couldn't suckle properly. He did fine with a bottle but couldn't nurse well. She had his tongue tie snipped, and the problems were solved.

[Tiramisu]

I nursed until my early forties. I didn't have a problem with milk supply and I have had two with tongue ties that grew well. My first with a tongue tie was an around the clock nurser. In fact, all four of mine would happily nurse constantly, and none were good sleepers. My nipples hurt with all of them despite the great help I got. I was raw and blistered, but it usually improved after the first month or so.

 

One thing that was very clear with baby numbers three and four was that I never felt as engorged, which could give the impression of not having enough milk. So that if you have a baby who is fussy, you could then think you don't have enough milk. However, if you are eating, drinking, and sleeping well, and not under a lot of stress, your milk supply is probably fine.

 

All of my kids turned out to have SPD, which I think is the cause of their fussiness as infants. They also wound up having mild allergies, and that only became clear many, many years later.

[Halftime Hope]

It's funny that so many have mentioned tongue tie; similar issues with a tongue-tied baby in my household.  In fact, when the next child nursed well and would conk out for hours (for about the first month), I was afraid there was something wrong. :lol:

[xixstar]

Tounge tie or lip tie? No personal experience to offer but I know those can cause lots of issues too.

[ashfern]

No problems. I agree with the others that maybe it's a physical issue.

[justamouse]

Is he hitting his growth spurt?

I'm wondering though, if it were a physical issue,-tongue tie-- would he get so content with the formula? 

Are you eating enough fats and good, rich, nutritious things in your diet? 

[PrairieSong]

I had my youngest at age 38 and nursed until age 41 with no problems...well, okay, he was a premature baby and I had to pump at first. Then I had a massive DVT when he was seven weeks and my supply plummeted for a little while, but after we got past all that I didn't have any major problems.

 

I thought of tongue tie, too. A younger mom at church has had to have that corrected with a couple of her babies.

[northcoast]

Please have a consult with a lactation consultant to rule out nursing issues.  Then check for food intolerance.    I didn't recognize that my daughter wasn't latching on correctly and it turns out she was tongue tied.  She nursed constantly, wasn't satisfied, and cried a lot.  Once the lactation consultant diagnosed the problem and the tongue was fixed, she was satisfied with just nursing and didn't take so long to nurse.

 

My lactation consultant told me it's much easier to get milk from a bottle.  Sucking on a bottle is not the same as sucking on mom.  Being tongue tied doesn't seem to be as much of an issue with bottle feeders.

[NoseInABook]

I agree, looking into a tongue tie and/or a lip tie is a good idea. http://www.kiddsteeth.com/2013bookbreastfeeding.pdf This has some good pictures to help give you an idea if your baby might have a tongue or a lip tie. My fourth had a posterior tongue tie and an upper lip tie. Both had to be taken care of before he started gaining weight like he should and he slowed down with the nursing. He was nursing every 45 minutes around the clock and shredding my nipples. *wince*

[Reefgazer]

Sounds like my son.  Never full.  He's 10 now, and nothing's changed, LOL!

When you got older (40ish) did you fail to make enough milk despite successfully nursing other children?

I have successfully nursed, tandem nursed, extended nursed.... I know if every breastfeeding, safe herb available in the US useful for increasing supply. No pacifiers, no thumbs, and he co sleeps, nursing on demand.

I am insanely sore from nursing NON STOP, and yes, it's from nursing, not yeast, not a plugged duct, not mastitis. He wakes up constantly at night to nurse, at every movement, unless I give him a bottle, then he sleeps.

It's been nine weeks. I'm wondering if I'll ever be able to stop buying formula. :(

This baby cries and cries and cries. I give him a bottle of formula and he passes out.

I have been trying to solely nurse him. He wets without soaking. He's gaining. But the only time he's remotely content is when he's stuffed like a turkey fill of formula.

 

[Chris in VA]

Agreeing with latching on improperly. Could be a physical problem of his (TT or LT) or just a poor latch. It's hard to break suction and relatch when you are practically screaming with pain! But a finger in the corner of baby's mouth and guiding your breast into his mouth with one hand can help.

 

Like gardenmom, I "shoved myself" down dd's throat! I put much more of the breast than I thought I needed to--it had been 8 years, so I'd refreshed my memory WRT putting the entire aerola into dd's mouth--it was rather large after two nursing babies and 8 years! But it worked.  lol

My second son sucked on the tip, and oh, boy, it was awful. I was NOT going to let that happen again.

 

ETA: Sorry if that seems condescending--you have WAY more experience than I do. I'd say, if latch is ok, then drink and rest for you. I hope it goes well with you and your dear one.

[prairiewindmomma]

I'm still thinking about this this afternoon.... Have you tried tight swaddling?  If that doesn't work, I'd look at reflux positioning as well (easy to do in a swing or bouncy seat or car seat while you are teaching your other kids and you can monitor and make sure the child doesn't chin tuck).  This may give you an idea whether silent reflux is an issue....

[VeganCupcake]

Tongue tie is what comes to mind here, too. Posterior tongue ties can be really hard to detect, even by experienced lactation people, and yet they can really affect nursing.

 

The only thought on your end might be retained placenta if you think you're having milk production problems. But I think it's much more likely that it's a milk transfer problem.

 

ETA: I'm 39 and exclusively nursing my twins. I just seem to make more and more milk as needed.

 

ETA again!! If you're sore, then it's even more likely that there is some kind of latch issue going on with him. Find the best IBCLC in your area and see her as soon as possible. Here's the ILCA IBCLC directory: http://www.ilca.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3432

[LisaKinVA]

I had problems with supply with #1, #2, and #3 (they lessened with each pregnancy). No problems nursing #4 or #5.

[texasmama]

I never had supply problems and nursed my last baby from age 38-42. I would see an LC for advice.

[Veritaserum]

My sixth child had a latch that visually looked good but felt horrible. Laid back breastfeeding/biological nurturing fixed it. I stopped latching him on and let him do it. Here's a video:

 

 

There are also links and articles if you do a search.

[Jane Elliot]

When you got older (40ish) did you fail to make enough milk despite successfully nursing other children?

 

 

Yes, this happened to me with my last four babies, beginning around my mid-thirties. I had successfully nursed eight children before that, including one set of twins. Fenugreek was super helpful. If you use it, be sure to note the directions in this article. 

 

http://kellymom.com/bf/can-i-breastfeed/herbs/fenugreek/

[DesertBlossom]

My mom nursed all 7 of her kids, and she said she felt like it go harder to maintain her supply as she got older. She was 38 when my baby brother was born.

 

That being said, I agree with the others about seeing a lactation consultant. Even when you're an experienced breastfeeder, each baby is different. I didn't see a LC until my 5th baby. I would have thought by then I knew it all. ;)

[sunflowerlady]

When I saw the thread title I thought it said "Older moms who are experienced BARTENDERS." LOL

[mamakelly]

3 of my kids have had a tounge tie. My last kiddo had a posterior tie, and it was very difficult to detect. Nursing was a PITB until it was clipped.

[umsami]

I did not have an issue with my last few kids…nor notice any supply issues.  I exclusively nursed all of them for 6 months, and then continued nursing until they were two.

 

Are you getting enough fluids? Food for yourself?

 

I'd also say, that every little bit helps.  I'm less militant breastfeeding in my old age.  So, if formula is working better for you right now, then perhaps do half and half or whatever works.  I don't think it has to be either or.

[cjzimmer1]

I had issues with #6 when I never had problems with the first 5.  All my kids gain slowly at first but he was much worse than others.  Took close to a month to get back to birth weight.  My the time he was 6 months old he had gained 3 pounds.  Lots of doctor appointments, tests, etc later.  Baby was only drinking 1/2 to 1 ounce per feeding.  No wonder he wasn't growing.  It's really hard to say what worked but the issues we ended up addressing were lack of food (tried homemade formula, commercial formula, donor breast milk and solids - result - he refused everything but nursing despite the fact he was getting almost nothing), lack of milk (I tried fenugreek, blessed thistle, another herbal tea that I'm drawing a blank on at the moment, red raspberry leaf tea, Reglan, and folic acid - I was low and hadn't been taking any vitamins, as well as pumping to increase my supply), allergy testing (turns out he had very low level allergies to milk and egg, I completely eliminated those for two months, until I was absolutely crawling the walls because I missed my cheese).  I really can't say for certain what caused the problem or what fixed it but during the 2 months I was off dairy and eggs things really started to turn around.  However, things continued to improve after I added his allergens back to my diet so I can't even say for certain that was the issue.  Anyways, time made a difference,  My failure to thrive baby who fell lower on the growth curve month after month, is now a 20 month old toddler who is at the 50% percentile.  We went for his 1 year follow-up on the allergies and the computer flagged his weight as too high for his growth curve. 

 

I did have a friend who had problems with milk supply for her 6th baby in her 40's as well.  I'm not sure what the resolution was but they did get through it.  So I guess if I were you I would decide how much my sanity could take and then decide to continue as is, push for more doctor appointments to attempt to find the problem or switch to formula.  Any of those is acceptable options as long as you are comfortable with them in your heart.  I'm very pro-breastfeeding and none of my other kids ever had formula but the stress of trying to find out what was wrong with my little guy was absolutely overwhelming.  I would have happily given him formula if only he would have taken it.  I was stuck trying to fix "me" because that was the only food he would take but I can't tell you how many doctors appointments I left in tears because nothing was working and my baby was in trouble.

[VeritasMama]

Is he hitting his growth spurt?

 

I'm wondering though, if it were a physical issue,-tongue tie-- would he get so content with the formula?

 

Are you eating enough fats and good, rich, nutritious things in your diet?

Bottles are much easier to suck with a tongue tie than nursing is. Nursing requires a very specific set of muscle movements that can be very difficult with a tongue tie. Bottles are very easy to suckle compared to a mother's nipple.

[Justmeandyou]

I had trouble with milk production as I aged.  I had a ton with my first and second, I pumped and gave to a milk bank.  I had an adequate supply with my 3rd, but no where near enough to pump and donate.  With my 4 my supply was not nearly as strong and it dwindled significantly by 6 months.  From 9 mo-15 months I nursed all night long in order to give him enough to eat.  My supply was higher at night. 

 

 

[Lucy in Australia]

I had my boys in my late 20s early 30s and had an oversupply of milk. I fed them each for 15 months. I had DD when I was 42 and did not make enough milk in spite of taking appropriate supplements, herbs, eating the right foods and even, as a last resort & in desperation, taking medication. She had to go over to formula at about 8 weeks. It was a huge relief for everyone.

[pollyanna]

I wonder about thyroid function too. Its a simple blood test that your doctor can order.

 

Tongue Tie is a distinct possibility. You've gotten some good advice here!

[gaillardia]

nm

[HS Mom in NC]

Call an Internationally Board Certified Lactation Consultant.  They're worth the $50 per hour consultation fee and they're the only ones qualified to answer breastfeeding questions.

[umsami]

You can also call where you gave birth, they sometimes have LCs on staff who will see you.  Also, a local LLL meeting.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Google breast compression and milk transfer.

 

My guess is it is not age but milk transfer that is an issue. Your baby may have an inefficient latch and suck. I really would see an LC if possible.

Exactly this.

[HS Mom in NC]

You can also call where you gave birth, they sometimes have LCs on staff who will see you.  Also, a local LLL meeting.

 

But only if it's an IBCLC. The LC at a hospital can be unqualified.  IBCLC certification requires years of medical training.

[VeganCupcake]

But only if it's an IBCLC. The LC at a hospital can be unqualified.  IBCLC certification requires years of medical training.

 

So true. With someone whose credential is "LC," you don't know what you're getting. An IBCLC has to meet a rigorous standard.

[FloridaLisa]

With my last child, my peds tried to tell me it was a supply issue and hand me a bottle. It wasn't. I had to make several trips to the lactation consultant before we were able to figure it out.  She was a classic snacker and would eat just enough to drop off to sleep and but wouldn't be full. So she constantly nursed.  She actually wasn't gaining well and because she wasn't nursing well (I think there was also a muscle issue where she didn't have a strong suck) I did lose some supply.  

 

I pumped and supplemented until she was about 4 months old and strong enough and awake enough to really nurse until full. She nursed beautifully after that and was my longest nurser (I go until about 18 months). 

 

Have you tried fenugreek, oatmeal, blackstrap molasses?  Kellymom.com was a great site, even though I felt like I knew so much having nursed my other six. 

 

Best wishes ~

Lisa

[Desert Strawberry]

I hadn't considered it, but number 4 is the only one I had supply problems with. I was 35. I had to eat so much, more than twice my normal intake, or it would drop. I started him on cereal at 5 months because he was always hungry. I didn't do formula because of rampant protein allergies in my other kids. He still has a big appetite.

Now I'm wondering if my age is a factor. I'm 38. I will keep an eye on my supply this time around.

[fdrinca]

My older sister (now in her late 40s) had an issue with supply with her last, born when she was 42? 43? 

 

Her supply issue was rooted in thyroid issues. 

 

Thyroid issues are so common in postpartum women that my OB orders the test as part of the 6-week postpartum check.

[IfIOnly]

Tounge tie? I've had to have our fourth child clipped.

[busymama7]

My older sister (now in her late 40s) had an issue with supply with her last, born when she was 42? 43?

 

Her supply issue was rooted in thyroid issues.

 

Thyroid issues are so common in postpartum women that my OB orders the test as part of the 6-week postpartum check.

This makes me mad. My dr(family as I had a mw for a home birth) wouldn't order a thyroid test on me at about 7 weeks pp when I asked because she said it was too soon and wouldn't be accurate anyways. I think she's wrong and did at the time but was tired of pushing(was in for something else)

 

I am 37 and nursing my 9th nursing. She is 8 weeks and gaining but a lot slower than my others have. Wih my first 5 I easily could have fed triplets my supply was so high. I think now it is lower but still adaquate. I'm nervous though as I did have issues around 9-11 months with my last one. Then I got pregnant anyways and weaned at about 16.

[SporkUK]

I echo the sentiments of checking tongue tie, latch, thyroid issues, rule out the more common stuff off.

 

I've found age-related issues can be a factor - my fourth, the youngest, was by far the most painful and difficult child to nurse for quite some time - and I had nursed during two pregnancies before him. He was always more difficult to nurse and had to be parent-led weaned because it started becoming really really close to unbearably painful shortly after he turned two and I constantly felt empty/dry. The reason which I only figured out after I started weaning him was that I was starting menopause! I had completely overlooked many of the other symptoms until I started getting hot flashes and all the other stuff I hadn't paid attention and hand waved away as the result of breastfeeding or my disabilities (I was practically a full check list for it by that point) even though I knew early menopause ran in my family. It's highly unlikely but it is possible and can be checked alongside thyroid levels. 

[Laura Corin]

FWIW, I used to pump a bottle for Calvin to have at (my) bedtime.  He breastfeed for 45 minutes every two hours throughout the day, but that bottle of breastmilk lasted him six hours.  Initially, the pumping was in order that his father would have time with him and I could get to sleep a little earlier; the six hours of rest was a nice side effect.

 

Good luck

 

L

[FO4UR]

The pain & lack of satiety make me think bad latch. A bad latch could be the cause of a low supply.  Tongue-tie? Clicking?  You are an experienced nurser...so that seems silly to say...

 

I'd encourage you to find an IBCLC.