1GirlTwinBoys Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 This is another thread where I know opinions will vary greatly, but I would be interested to know what you think. The other day, I needed to run in Home Depot and was only in there about 7-8 minutes. My 3 children are middle school age where I live. They are extremely responsible and mature for their ages. VERY safe area. The temp was high 70's and the windows were all cracked. Also, my German Shepherd dog was with them. I came out to the van to find this elderly lady looking in the tinted windows and talking to my children. She approached me and said she was worried about them etc... I told her they were middle school age and they're fine. She said she didn't know etc... So my kids told me when I got in the van that she was asking them if they're alright, are they hot.... They were like "No, we're fine". She had even told a worker that was in the parking lot getting carts. My kids asked me why that lady was talking to them like they were toddlers. But I got to thinking about it and wondering if it was not something most people do when their kids are those ages (10 and 11 years old). I'd never let them stay in the van when it's too hot or I'll be longer than just a few mins. Thoughts??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLMom Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I don't see a problem with it. I actually leave my kids this age in the car (when they don't want to come in with me) and have them leave the windows down, but the door locked. If they, or anyone else unlock it, the alarm goes off. I have to remind them though, not to unlock it because they have set it off several times. :huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelotmom Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 The only real reason I'm afraid of leaving kids in the car, assuming they're old enough and have good enough judgement to safely get out and come find me or other help if something is wrong, is concerned strangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 It is illegal under a certain age here. I do not leave them alone in the car before 14 yrs old. At 10 and 11, it is too easy to take those two in. Better safe than sorry. There have been news reports of kids that age being stolen from parking lots (usually, girls get stolen) but I don't want to risk CPS showing up or otherwise. Plus, upper 70's, the car can heat up fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in TX Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I might leave my 13 year-old in the car, depending on where we were and what time of day. I wouldn't leave my 11 year old alone. I would leave my 11 year old with my 13 year old. To be safe, you might want to check the laws in your area. The state of TX has laws about how old a child has to be to be left alone in a vehicle: Sec. 22.10. LEAVING A CHILD IN A VEHICLE. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly leaves a child in a motor vehicle for longer than five minutes, knowing that the child is: (1) younger than seven years of age; and (2) not attended by an individual in the vehicle who is 14 years of age or older. An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor. Susan in TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiMi 4under3 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I leave my kids in the car only if I can see them from the store window and if I'll be less than 10-15 min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I leave mine in the van. Mine are younger. I leave my cell if they need to call 911. I'd never leave them for an hour but that concern is for strangers not their personal safety skills. I was babysitting kids alone during the summer in 6th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1GirlTwinBoys Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 I don't think anyone would be brave enough to try and steal them with our German Shepherd guarding them in the car. :huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 In temps that high, I wouldn't believe it would be safe in the car, unless the A/C were running. Cracked windows do not allow for enough air circulation. If the windows were all down, then I think it would have been okay. My kids probably wouldn't have liked it, but it would be necessary because it wouldn't have been safe for the dog otherwise. ETA: Other than the temperature, it wouldn't be a big deal to me. My kids were tall/big for their age, which gave an added measure of safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freckles Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 yes, I would leave middle school age kids in the car if they didn't want to come in the store with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1GirlTwinBoys Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 Also, I won't leave them in the car if there is just one of them. I feel like the 3 of them together, along with our GS dog are pretty safe for just a few mins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 In the situation you described, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trudence1 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Yes, I have let me two oldest stay in the car by themselves. They are 10 and 12. It matters where we are and how hot it is, but, as someone else said, I was babysitting on my own by the age of my oldest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink and Green Mom Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I am more inclined to leave mine home alone than have them wait in the car. The oldest is a very responsible 13 and they know not to go outside, open the door to anyone, eat, or turn on the oven/stove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Middle school age? Definitely. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMamaBird Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Based on what you've said, yes, I would leave them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Three middle schoolers and a German shepherd are just not at risk of being kidnapped or overheating. At that age, if they're hot they can open the doors and get themselves and the dog out. I can see people making an emotional what-if argument, but statistically there's just no risk. I have teens. They'd just rather not go in half of the time. They listen to two or three songs on the radio and I'm back out. I don't leave my 14-year-old alone in the van, but ONLY because he needs assistance to get his wheelchair out. Otherwise I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loowit Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I leave my DD in the car for short store trips. I had to do it once when she hurt her foot and couldn't walk well. I wasn't going to drag her into the store. However, I left the keys with her so she could control the windows and have a panic button, plus she has a cell phone if needed. In temperatures that high it can get much hotter in the car than we may expect. However I would expect my kids to be smart enough to open a door or something if they were getting overheated. I also know that sometimes a quick trip into the store may not be as quick as expected, so if I wasn't willing to leave them for a longer time, I am not willing to leave them a short time. I don't yet leave my boys alone, they can stay with their sister. I never ever leave all three. They would start fighting with each other. Any combo of two works, but not all three together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Mine is 10 and goes into the store with me for the simple reason that I do not do short trips. When I drive into town and go to the store I am usually looking at buying a large amount of stuff and he helps me find, put in the cart and then load the truck. We never take dogs into the city and we very very rarely just run into a store for that short of time. But if we did I would probably leave him in the vehicle to keep an eye on the inside temp to make sure the dog is OK. He is large for his age and adult sized, I doubt anyone would even do a double take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I would have been irritated with you had you left the dog alone, he can't roll down the window if he was hot. With 3 kids and the dog, I would not have had a second thought and walked right on by. I do think older people can have a hard time telling age of children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 My 10 year old rarely actually asks to stay in the car. If he wants to stay he is sick. Otherwise he comes in and begs for food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 That's borderline for me. A little younger, no; a little older, yes. Check out your state laws. I don't think it would be illegal in my state, but whether it's a good idea or not, I don't know. At 10 and 11, they could easily come inside if you took too long and it got too hot. It's not like they're four and stuck in car seats and can't cross the parking lot safely. I think they would be fine, but my biggest concern is busybodies like that woman. It only takes one call to the police to open up a big can of worms for you, and since my family is a little on the fringe anyway (homeschoolers, for one, but we homebirth too, etc.), I tend to err on the side of caution about stuff like that, and I probably would have made them come in with me. Now, small business where I could see them from the window, or a super fast errand like depositing a check or dropping off library books -- at those ages, sure. Larger parking lots and stores makes me more cautious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I would and have, but do worry about concerned strangers. Actually, when I haven't wanted to bring my 4/5 yo in, I have all the kids get out of the car and wait outside the store (oldest is 13 and the next looks 14) for me, bc I know there won't be any trouble leaving a little one with 2 "teens" on a sidewalk. It seems a bit crazy to me, but there it is. Once I did take my youngest 2 in (they were 3 and 7) and left my older 2 (9 and 11) in the car. I came out and there was a police officer approaching the car. When he saw I had 2 littles with me, he turned away. I don't know if it was bc I was back or bc he was checking for littles. Actually, when I'm worried and it's a quick trip (like we are stopping bc someone forgot water for soccer), I will send a 9, 10, 11 on up in by themselves to buy whatever is needed instead of going in myself with the younger one or leaving kids alone and worrying I'll get in trouble. The added bonus is that they learn to do independent errands (I grew up in a city where I had a lot more experience shopping/going to the library alone than my poor suburban kids get). They also are doing meaningful work, which is important for kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I once had my 2 standing outside of a restroom inside a store. I had to go. Well it was a matter of a couple of minutes before a manager came over and made a big stink about it. They weren't little either. Definitely old enough to stand there quietly for a moment. Nothing came of it, but geesh....can't a mother pee without suspicion?! Seriously. I was at Burger King today with my 5 yo and 9 yo. I DIDN'T go bc I couldn't work out how to go without anyone making a stink about me leaving the 9 yo out (boy, so too old to come in) alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 As Sparkly said, if your state does NOT have a law, it's actually more risky from a legal standpoint IMO. Mine does not, and I don't leave my kids in the car. My comfort level = each kid can get himself inside to me or a safe person in exigent circumstances OR one kid is old enough and responsible enough to shepherd everyone else. Mine just aren't there yet. We leave the older kids at home for brief periods, but for some reason, both lose their wits in parking lots. And yes, we work on this! I'd be more concerned with one getting bored and deciding to come inside and getting splatted by a car than anything else. My oldest is close, but if she decided to come in and DS wanted to stay, there would be an argument, and DS is definitely not ready (or comfortable) alone. Anyway, 3 middle schoolers (middle school here is 11-14ish) and a GSD? Absolutely. But my old GSD mix was almost smart enough to *drive* the car. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 at Home Depot? My 10 year old rarely actually asks to stay in the car. If he wants to stay he is sick. Otherwise he comes in and begs for food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1GirlTwinBoys Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 I do think older people can have a hard time telling age of children. This is what I was thinking after it happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 3B4G Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I have no problem leaving them if it's not too hot or too cold. Sometimes I leave the engine running for them for the ac or heat - but only for under 10 mins. They usually prefer to read in the car while I run into the drug store or grab a pizza or pay for gas. I ask them to be quiet to not attract attention (my kids are highly boisterous) because though I feel it's okay and it's legal because my oldest is old enough, there's always that hypersensitive person that feels the need to call police - though it hasn't happened to us, it happens where I live all the time. My oldest is a teen and 5' 6" so I doubt anyone would be concerned but I've been doing it for a few years when it may have been hard for an observer to determine his age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzymom Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I would not, but every town, every situation is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1GirlTwinBoys Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 No, I'd never leave my dog in the van during warm months. The other day we had to go an hour out of town for an appt and took him with us. I left the dog in the van with the a/c on and car locked while I went inside for my appt: I could see the car from the window and went outside to check on him once just to make sure things were running and ok. I'd never leave my kids in the car with it running though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeetime Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Middle school age? Of course! But I would check the laws in your state first just to make sure it's on your side. In my state, it is legal to leave children in the car unattended as long as the car is not running and the weather is not inclement. (Too hot OR too cold). But for goodness sake, my middle school age child babysits for me at home- why wouldn't he be able to sit in a locked car alone for a few minutes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I have nothing against leaving middle school aged and older kids in a car. I've done it many times. But with temps in the high 70's, and with a dog in the car (who may overheat even more quickly than the kids)? No. I wouldn't have left them with only cracked windows. I would have left the car running, AC on, and told the oldest to hit the door lock after I got out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belacqua Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I think that's a good point about people misjudging kids' ages. My neighbor works in a grocery store and told me about an older woman coming in, genuinely upset (concerned, not in a busybody kind of way) about a "little boy left alone in a car." The manager went out to check only to see the boy start the car and drive away. The woman who reported it was terribly embarrassed, but it seems she really thought it was a young child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I wouldn't have any problem with the situation you described in the OP. Some people are just bad at guessing ages. A coworker was shocked when she learned my age and thought I was almost 10 years younger than I am. My aunt—who was in her 20s at the time—got pulled over once because the cop didn't think she looked old enough to be driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I checked my state guidelines. There isn't state laws but recommendations for GA. Ages 8 and under never alone. Ages 8 to 12 brief times alone (they didn't define brief) ages 13 and up allowed to babysit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upennmama Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Ugh, I'm so sick of busybodies. My 12 year old is a mother's helper/babysitter for littler kids, and yet somehow she's going to get hurt in a locked car on a cool day? Ridiculous. I have gotten people compaining when I walked away from my van to the gas station office, 25 feet away, to pay for gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel Mertz Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 This may help: http://www.kidsandcars.org/state-laws.html We're more likely to leave our soon-to-be 12 year old boy (small for his age) at home than leave him in the car alone. I've only done it once - in the library parking lot when I went in to pick up a book that was on hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 at Home Depot? Yep, even at Home Depot. They only sell junk food he won't eat though. Might be a regional thing to have food at the registers even at Home Depot. Today he alis not feeling well so asked to go to Great Grandmas instead of the half a dozens stores I have to visit today. I wish I could go to great grandmas instead of the store on a Saturday but that is not to be and I cannot wait until Friday next week to go which is my next free day due to camps and appointments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecclecticmum Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I'd have to think about that when they are middle school aged. Right now, no, I don't. But hubby does and has, no matter how many times I tell him not to. He's left them in the car a few times to pay for gas. I only find out about it afterward, after finding he did it more than once, and again ignoring me, I have been more wary of letting him take them out by himself. But its because he has a different mindset then me, he never does prevention, only cure after the fact. So if the car got blown up with the kids inside, and years later I had more babies ,,,,THEN... at that point he MIGHT think twice about leaving them in the car (weird example, but you get my point). Where as I am at the opposite end of the spectrum and see the reasons not to without even havign to think (Eve likes getting out of her seat, Chaos doesn't understand and could try to start the car or take off the handbrake, Atlas would overreact about something jump out of the car and fly into the shop with little thought, leaving her two younger siblings alone. Someone could take them. Someone could try to steal the car not knowing they are in the back, eve could open the window lean out (shes done this numerous times) and with noone to watch her fall/tumble out and crack her head on the concrete, Chaos could do something and have a meltdown causing the other kids to freak or be hurt, Atlas might decide to let her brothers & sisters clamber around the car, which could cause an accident. SO many things could happen its not funny. And its not a situation that needs to happen for any reason, its just laziness on getting the kids in and out of the car or unwillingness to "deal" with them inside the shop, so its unacceptable. Whereas the toilet situation I have slowly adapted my mind on, I can see my kids are at the point (apart from Chaos) where they can go into seperate toilets in certain situations (rather than all in with me) and sometimes only atlas can go to a separate toilet, and sometimes they all come in with me. So it differs upon the situation. Right now, considering all the things that could happen and the physical, mental and emotional stages of my children, I wouldn't leave them in the car till they were about 14. Where they can be at that age where they know what to do in most situations, and where, if it does get hot, they can happily get out of the car, lock up, and either make their way in to find me, or leave a note in the car as to where they have gone, and I can be happy enough with them going off. So all that seems around 14 to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhsmom Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I just read this article about the exact same topic. It definitely made me rethink my position on this issue. http://www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_day_i_left_my_son_in_the_car/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 The age is fine, but at those temperatures I wouldn't just leave the windows "cracked" (using quotes here because I don't know if that words means the same to both of us). I'd leave the windows at least halfway down, if not all the way. If the area wasn't safe enough to do that in the first place, then I wouldn't have left them in the car. Again, I think middle school age is perfectly fine for being left in a car. It's the temperature that I'd be worried about. Maybe my view is different because I live in a hot climate and we hear about tragic left-in-the-car stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davysmom Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Middle school age here - yes. 10 and 11 no. Middle school age here is 12 - 14. I would leave them home but not in the car mostly because of concerned people. I leave my older kids with my younger kids all the time. I always make the oldest who stays sit in the front seat that way no one ever walks by and sees a baby or toddler and not someone older. I think it also makes it appear that they older because younger kids don't sit in the front. Now I love that my oldest looks like an adult. I don't ever worry about them. Seriously, they are old enough to know if they are hot and get out of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storygirl Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Yes, I have left my children in the car alone. But very few times, never when it is very hot or very cold, never when a child is alone, and never for more than five minutes. I had to run into the dance studio to fetch a child whose class was finished and who was sitting in a chair, waiting for me. It took two minutes, and the parking lot is a small one behind the building only used for the studio, so no random strangers. I also let them stay in the car the other day when I ran a library book in and put it in the drop box. A few minutes max. Any more than a quick dash inside somewhere, and I would make them go with me. As a side note, I will never let my children wait outside the ballet studio on the sidewalk for me when their class is over, even though other children their age do it, and even though it is in the rear of the building where the public won't see them standing there. They must wait inside. I am sure that on a scale of cautious to permissive, I am generally on the extremely cautious end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I just read this article about the exact same topic. It definitely made me rethink my position on this issue. http://www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_day_i_left_my_son_in_the_car/ While that article does point to where we should really think about what we are doing; the child in question was 4. Not middle school aged like OPs children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Again, I think middle school age is perfectly fine for being left in a car. It's the temperature that I'd be worried about. Maybe my view is different because I live in a hot climate and we hear about tragic left-in-the-car stories. I've never heard even one left-in-the-car story about a middle-school-age child. They aren't strapped into a car seat unable to do anything if they start getting too warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I don't consider 10 and 11 middle school age. And trips often take longer than they should. Additionally, Home Depot will let your dog shop with you if he is appropriately behaved. However, I still don't have an issue with it provided you feel you can trust the children AND the children can handle the dog should they need to roll the windows down further, get out of the vehicle for some reason, etc. Additionally, of course, they'd need to know what to do in the case of an emergency. I think parents tend to be one extreme or another these days, either way permissive/careless or overprotective. This is a pretty middle of the road situation so there will likely be plenty judging from each end :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I don't consider 10 and 11 middle school age. Middle school includes 6th to 8th graders here. My DD didn't turn 12 until the summer after 6th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto10blessings Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 In the scenario described I would have no problem. I love my big van with tinted windows because no one can see in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I have, frequently left my almost 13 year old in the car - often with my younger boys. I can leave the car running with heat/air, and she is well versed in locking the car as I get out, and looking three times before unlocking it for me again. She has a good head on her shoulders, is legally old enough to babysit, and is fiercely protective of her younger brothers. At first this was a practical concern for my middle son's health needs - when we started doing it, it was far more likely that he would end up in the hospital if he caught something from being sneezed on, or from touching a contaminated counter/shopping cart, than it was that the car would be stolen (which would require considerable, loud, noticeable effort given the locked, alarmed, SUV, with a spitfire Big Sister inside). As time goes on, and middle boy grows stronger, it generally only happens if the boys have fallen asleep on our way to our destination. She also has my cell phone while I'm in the store. Considering the sheer number of times my middle son ended up with pneumonia from places like Chuck E Cheese, the emergency room, or other random seemingly innocent places, it would have been more irresponsible of me to take him INTO these places, than it was to leave him safely in the car with Big Sister, especially during peak flu season here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belacqua Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I think parents tend to be one extreme or another these days, either way permissive/careless or overprotective. This is a pretty middle of the road situation so there will likely be plenty judging from each end :) That's an interesting point. Sometimes it seems we're asked to choose sides: Are you Team Free-Range or Team Helicopter? Whereas I imagine most of us probably aim for somewhere in the middle. That may present as sometimes overprotective and sometimes lenient, rather than the ideal of moderation in every instance, but it's still not asking anybody to declare an extreme position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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