Drama

[kwg]

WWYD?

 

But be gentle because I have cried over this a lot.

 

So a  woman has come into our small (six families including her) "co op"- more like playgroup in the last year..  We are a tight group. Since she came, it feels like there has been a lot of drama.  This is the latest.

 

Back in September she started making  comments about my husband.  Since then we got together as an entire group a few times and it continued (he is a kissing her butt, he is mean,  etc.)  After our Christmas party she asked why I was distant so I told her these comments were making me uncomfortable and this has turned into this whole thing.

 

She reacted pretty strongly - she was shocked I could ever think that she would ever say anything bad about a friend's husband, was just joking, he started it, and was not a sneaky person.  I just said that I didn't think she was sneaky at all, they just made me uncomfortable and was glad we talked.  She has not come back to group and now wants to meet in person to resolve the issue b/c she is having a hard time with it.  I am very nervous about this meeting!

 

Full disclosure- I do not like this woman.  I find her manipulative, too helpful if that makes sense, and think she seriously lacks boundaries.  Just when I think I can tolerate her, she does something that brings me up short and reminds me that we do not get along.  SHe, however, before this anyway seemed to think we were great friends. Once she sent  this message that I really did think was for another friend- I almost copied and pasted it and sent it to her bc I thought it was a misfire - about how I was such a great friend to her and she would do anything for me and it turned out it was for me.   It was strange bc I have never done anything for her really.  Like I said, I just try to tolerate her.  I probably sound like a bitch here but I do usually get along with most people.  This is the first time I have been in this situation and I am 40 years old.

 

  I am pretty sure she is just going to go on and on about how she was just joking nad then go back to my other friend and say how unreasonable I was if I do not agree. But I do not. She wasn't! I know a joke when I hear one!  I would say I was being too sensitive, I can be, except I have repeated the incidences to several people and all of them have said yes she was being inappropriate.  So, I feel unwilling to go there really.  I do not know how to handle her.

 

An example: we go to a park. I talk to her three times before she will say anything to me and when she finally does and i ask what she is doing she says she is looking at the rocks b.c they have shiny things in them. (not kidding here) So ok she doesn't want to talk.  But later she goes to our friend and tells her I am giving her the cold shoulder. Uh, ....no. She didn't want to talk! The friend says obviously there is a communication problem and I am thinking pfft, she set me up to look bad.  *sigh* maybe I am being paranoid.

 

So how would you handle this situation.  How should I handle it?

[Melissa in Australia]

I would avoid her if at all possible. she sounds like a crazy

[bettyandbob]

How is she with the others in the group? Does anyone else notice her behavior?

 

I'd not meet with her. I'd tell her you both have stated your feelings on the issue and there's no reason to waste time on it and you won't waste time on it.

[littlebug42]

I would be pleasant when I saw her and then just not engage any further.   There is someone in my group that made a crack about my husband not long after I met her and it completely turned me off of her.   I am always nice to her but have no burn I Nguyen desire to be great friends either.   

[Laurie4b]

 I am not discounting your gut at all, but am asking these questions to explore what might be her point of view or the view from a group dynamic point of view because that might be helpful to you in thinking about this:

 

What does she mean that your husband started it? What does your husband say about that? How did it start as far as you know?

Did her comments make your husband mad or uncomfortable, too, or just you?

 

Where are you on the extrovert/introvert scale? Where is she? (What seems friendly to an extrovert can seem over-the-top and inauthentic to an introvert.)

 

Are you from the same ethnic group and region of the country? (What seems friendly to someone in one ethnic group/region of the country can seem over the top and inauthentic to a person from a different ethnic group or region of the country. There are some cultural contexts in which exchanging teasing barbs is considered a game and is done among friends. In other contexts, that would be considered hostile.)

 

 

She approached you directly to ask about your distance. Have you ever approached her directly about behavior that bothers you, or responded to it as it was happening? What was her response when you did that?

 

Is it accurate to say that both of you are going to other people in the group to talk about the other one in her absence? For your part, what has kept you from simply telling her that "x" bothered you instead of repeating the incidents to several people? After you've discussed the incidents with other people, have you talked with her directly?  (Gently: you both may be burdening other group members by not handling things between you directly.)

 

Is this happening with other group members or is it a dynamic between you and her? 

 

Were you the leader of the group?

 

Could you elaborate on what you said about talking to her three times before she would say anything? Were you asking her questions and she was ignoring you? (I am just asking for clarification. I don't quite get what happened. I'm someone who could be fascinated by something like mica in rocks, so I don't find that weird on its face , but it sounds like maybe it was used as an excuse as to why she was ignoring you??)

 

On the other side of it, saying something inappropriate and saying one is joking can allow a person to get in a dig, but then have plausible deniability and still be a
"good person."  It could be part of a manipulative pattern, but if it started with friendly teasing (again, what is your husband's point of view) she may simply have taken it too far and thought there was permission when there wasn't any.

 

I actually wondered on reading this whether she was flirting with your husband  or whether you thought she was flirting. The words "kissing my butt" could have sexual as well as aggressive overtones and some women use accusations such as "You're mean" accompanied with a cute little pout to draw a man in who is not giving them the attention they seek. He doesn't want to be mean, so he gives her more attention. Things can build from there. What is your husband's sense of this?

 

I think refusing to meet may end up making you look like the bad guy. She could truthfully say ," I asked to meet with kwg to try to work out this misunderstanding and she refused."  You might consider instead, "When we discussed it together, it seemed to make it worse. Why don't we ask ____ to be there to help us understand each other?"  Then you would have a witness.  The downside is that the witness gets drawn in. Is there a neutral person NOT inside the group who could mediate?

[DawnM]

Agreeing with Laurie that you need a mediator. 

 

I had a VERY BAD situation last year.  It was similar to yours in that I hadn't had an issue like that ever.

 

She sent me nasty emails and then I found out she had gossiped to everyone in the entire group about me (small group of 5 moms.)    She would CC copies where she was sticky sweet to me, "Oh Dawn, I realize I have talked about you behind your back to everyone, I am so sorry, but could you PLEASE tell me what I have done wrong so that I can apologize because I just don't know WHAT I could have done."

 

Nasty emails were NOT CCed to anyone and I wasn't going to gossip so I didn't share them.  I just dealt with them. 

 

I finally emailed her and told her to NOT email me anymore and that if she wished to talk, I would meet with her in a neutral place with a mediator so that it wouldn't turn in to "she said" thing.

 

She backed down immediately, told me she had nothing more to say to me anymore and we should just not talk.

 

We haven't spoken since.  I truly dislike her.  She treated my son like garbage and that will not be tolerated by anyone.  

 

Turns out one of the other moms in the group ended up in a huge thing with her and won't speak to her anymore either……hmmmm……I am sensing a pattern here and it isn't from me!

[kwg]

How is she with the others in the group? Does anyone else notice her behavior?

 

I'd not meet with her. I'd tell her you both have stated your feelings on the issue and there's no reason to waste time on it and you won't waste time on it.

 

Yes. That is what I really want to do.

 

 I am not discounting your gut at all, but am asking these questions to explore what might be her point of view or the view from a group dynamic point of view because that might be helpful to you in thinking about this:

 

What does she mean that your husband started it? He made a joke so she joked back which was ok...but then came to me and said "man your husband is mean when he drinks." FTR- things had just started he was no where near drunk or anything....or she thought he made a joke -he says he did not (i wasnt there) then she comes to me and says "your husband is in there kissing my butt" and when i said "i doubt that" she firmly told me "YES he was."

 

What does your husband say about that? How did it start as far as you know?  I think the very first time it started was she got mad at him at a birthday party.  She asked him and her husband to intervene with some children and my husband did not (neither did hers).  Prior to this everything between them seemed okay I thought.  The next time we all got together she fussed at him in front of a bunch of people for that and my husband said later he felt like that kind of stuff is reserved for high school girlfriend/boyfriend drama.

Did her comments make your husband mad or uncomfortable, too, or just you?  hmmm......the first few times, he was bothered.  Now it is just me.

 

Where are you on the extrovert/introvert scale? Where is she? (What seems friendly to an extrovert can seem over-the-top and inauthentic to an introvert.)  I am not really sure lol. I will look it up.  I enjoy being with people but I need to be alone also.  I have no idea with her.

 

Are you from the same ethnic group and region of the country? (What seems friendly to someone in one ethnic group/region of the country can seem over the top and inauthentic to a person from a different ethnic group or region of the country. There are some cultural contexts in which exchanging teasing barbs is considered a game and is done among friends. In other contexts, that would be considered hostile.)  No. We are from different regions.

 

 

She approached you directly to ask about your distance. Have you ever approached her directly about behavior that bothers you, or responded to it as it was happening? What was her response when you did that?  SHe approached me bc a friend basically forced her hand but no I did not and probably would not have.  My plan was to next time she said something negative to basiclally say something like "wow that is inappropriate" and walk away.  I hate confrontations.  She did come up with this meeting though on her own.

 

Is it accurate to say that both of you are going to other people in the group to talk about the other one in her absence? For your part, what has kept you from simply telling her that "x" bothered you instead of repeating the incidents to several people? After you've discussed the incidents with other people, have you talked with her directly?  (Gently: you both may be burdening other group members by not handling things between you directly.)  A friend and I both do not like her and we prob feed into each other.  I need to stop that.  I found out last night she was talking to my best friend some because I broke down. Previously I didnt want to put her in the middle so I never said anything to her.

 

Is this happening with other group members or is it a dynamic between you and her? Mostly me but one other member had some issues also.

 

Were you the leader of the group? No we do not really have a leader.  But my husband has pointed out that he thinks I am kind of like the glue that holds the group together and  if I am on vacation they rarely  meet. I am not sure about that but thought I would throw it out there.

 

Could you elaborate on what you said about talking to her three times before she would say anything? Were you asking her questions and she was ignoring you? (I am just asking for clarification. I don't quite get what happened. I'm someone who could be fascinated by something like mica in rocks, so I don't find that weird on its face , but it sounds like maybe it was used as an excuse as to why she was ignoring you??)  I said "hey", then "what are you doing?" then "did you lose something?" while standing beside her before she answered me.  She could have been engrossed I suppose. I did think maybe she did not hear my first "hey"

 

On the other side of it, saying something inappropriate and saying one is joking can allow a person to get in a dig, but then have plausible deniability and still be a

"good person."  It could be part of a manipulative pattern, but if it started with friendly teasing (again, what is your husband's point of view) she may simply have taken it too far and thought there was permission when there wasn't any.

 

I actually wondered on reading this whether she was flirting with your husband  or whether you thought she was flirting. The words "kissing my butt" could have sexual as well as aggressive overtones and some women use accusations such as "You're mean" accompanied with a cute little pout to draw a man in who is not giving them the attention they seek. He doesn't want to be mean, so he gives her more attention. Things can build from there. What is your husband's sense of this?

 

I think refusing to meet may end up making you look like the bad guy. That is what I am worried about!  She could truthfully say ," I asked to meet with kwg to try to work out this misunderstanding and she refused."  You might consider instead, "When we discussed it together, it seemed to make it worse. Why don't we ask ____ to be there to help us understand each other?"  Then you would have a witness.  The downside is that the witness gets drawn in. Is there a neutral person NOT inside the group who could mediate? Not that I can think of really.  I would be afraid that it would get out and that would be embarrassing for me.  There is a part of me that does not care how I look.  

 

 

 

[kwg]

So here is kinda what I am thinking: If she starts in on the just joking thing I will say something like yes, you said that in your message, was there anything else you needed to say to resolve this? ANd just kinda broken record that.  Does that sound ok?

 

 

Honestly, I already tried to say 'hey we are cool' when we had group at our house by saying something like 'i forgot to give you your Capri suns so do not let me forget' but she totally did not get that at all and sent me a message like 2 days later saying she did not want them back.  My plan was to avoid her and be pleasant.

[Tammyla]

It sounds like her goal is to continue to hammer away and push at you and your boundaries, until you submit and see things her way.

 

I would come up with a statement of something like... Please stop bringing this up, we need to move on ....  Wash, rinse, repeat. 

 

 

BOUNDARIES by Cloud and Townsend or a number of other titles by the same authors are an excellent recommendation for dealing with someone not respecting your boundaries.  Many libraries have the book btw.

 

 

[Starr]

I would not meet with her alone.

[QueenCat]

I would never meet with her alone.........

[LucyStoner]

Don't meet with her alone. And don't meet with with with a mediator either. That is giving her way, way, way too much of your energy and effort.

 

"I don't think there is anything more to discuss."

[zoobie]

Don't waste more time and effort on her. This is a woman you barely know, not a relative, and your gut is telling you she's bad news. You did more than you had to by being honest with her. Now treat her like a crazy coworker--never be alone, never talk about her, and be professionally polite in groups. She will focus her crazy on someone else soon.

[Dmmetler]

I agree with staying away as much as you can. I think every group breeds a "Crazy"-and sometimes, the best thing you can do is keep your distance. If she's making you miserable, she's probably making others miserable as well, and if you stand your ground, others will probably join you.

 

 

 

 

[MomatHWTK]

I would add the proviso that my DH would never be alone with her ever.  Not in a room, not passing in a hallway, not ever.  Based on your statements, she didn't start out trying to make drama with you, but with him. DH and I don't let others try and play that with us. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I agree.  Don't meet with her alone.

 

She sounds. . . immature.  Why is she tattling on your husband to you?  If she had a genuine problem with your dh, then she should have taken it up with him.  Why are you listening to her complaints about your husband?  I would have referred her back to him right there.  I'm assuming that while you weren't there, he wasn't alone with her, so it wasn't an issue of her accusing him of sexual harassment or impropriety.  I would advise your husband to never ever be alone with her btw.

 

Why was it so important for her to answer you on the walk?  If I asked someone a question and they ignored me a couple of times, I would have shrugged and walked on companionably in silence.  

 

I agree with the boundaries book.  I would be polite and pleasant but just because you are in a group of only 6 people does not mean that you have to be best friends.  And it doesn't mean that either of you have to get out a "play book" to tell the other how they should behave.  

 

 

[Truscifi]

I would meet with her, though I would not go alone. I am wondering if cultural and personality differences are being misunderstood on both sides, and I would want to figure that out.

[Word Nerd]

I wouldn't meet with her alone either. I think I would say you already talked about this and you consider it resolved. "Let's move on." I would also avoid talking about her to other friends, as whether you intend it to or not, that feeds the drama. Don't focus so much on what she says or does.

 

I'm reminded of another poster's story about a conflict with a woman in her small group a couple of years ago. The one-on-one confrontation went horribly and made things much worse. I have a feeling that would be more likely in this situation than truly resolving the problem.

[Dandelion]

I agree that meeting with her will not help, and will possibly make things worse.

Respond to her request with "There is nothing more to discuss", and then be the broken record if she asks again.

IME this kind of drama only resolves when one of the parties involved leaves the group. You mentioned that she has stopped coming to the meetups. Hopefully it will stay that way. My guess is that she's more likely to stay away if you refuse to meet with her.

That may sound harsh but I've seen this kind of drama completely tear groups apart before. The vast majority of the time, it was because one or a handful of people *created* drama. When people are inclined to do that, no amount of discussion is going to change anything or restore a healthy group dynamic. In those cases, it's better for everyone involved when the person causing the drama moves on.

[gardenmom5]

you are correct.  she's manipulative and has no boundaries. she could be called toxic or a drama queen.  in any case, she's got issues.  she hasn't been back to the group?  I would celebrate.

 

there is nothing to meet about.  since she has no boundaries, you have to enforce them with her.  I wouldn't meet with her.

 

even if she doens't have narcisstic personality disorder - it would be worth reading about.

there's also a great book on amazon on boundaries.

they would be helpful for the future if you ever end up dealing with this kind of person, or horror or horrors - she returns to the group.

[bolt.]

A think the above posts are wise. There's definitely no need to engage with her, and he behaviour is quite unusual.

 

However, I caution you (for your own sake) that it sounds a bit like you actually consider her to be cold, calculating and intentional about what she is doing... That she has a plan, that she is acting against you on purpose.

 

Her actions don't read like that to me. They read like someone with a (very mild) disability or developmental delay -- someone who has 99% of the usual social skills, but gets in over her head (and doesn't want that to be her fault). She sounds a lot like an elderly lady I know.

 

I suggest that you can take her honestly, that she was just trying to be 'jokey' -- that she was absorbed in her rocks, etc. That doesn't mean that it's OK, but I feel differently (and plan differently) when I believe someone is honestly missing the problem... Vs when I actually believe they are acting as my social enemy, setting me up, whatever.

[justasque]

A think the above posts are wise. There's definitely no need to engage with her, and he behaviour is quite unusual.

 

However, I caution you (for your own sake) that it sounds a bit like you actually consider her to be cold, calculating and intentional about what she is doing... That she has a plan, that she is acting against you on purpose.

 

Her actions don't read like that to me. They read like someone with a (very mild) disability or developmental delay -- someone who has 99% of the usual social skills, but gets in over her head (and doesn't want that to be her fault). She sounds a lot like an elderly lady I know.

 

I suggest that you can take her honestly, that she was just trying to be 'jokey' -- that she was absorbed in her rocks, etc. That doesn't mean that it's OK, but I feel differently (and plan differently) when I believe someone is honestly missing the problem... Vs when I actually believe they are acting as my social enemy, setting me up, whatever.

This is how the situation sounded to me also.  She sounds like someone who has some brain-based issues around social interaction.   The shiny rocks, the thinking you're her good friend when it's not the case - think about the kids you know who struggle with these kinds of things, and ask yourself if she could be struggling with similar challenges.  I think you'll find that if you view her actions through this lens (instead of the "she is intentionally manipulating me" lens), you'll find yourself feeling quite differently about her, and you'll be better equipped to address situations where she is behaving strangely.

[Library Momma]

She sounds like a tween or  teenager - Is she extremely young?

[elfgivas]

if she isn't coming back to the group until you meet with her, i'd, hmmm...., not meet.....

 

i can't see this ending well.

 

but do make sure there is a witness to what is being said.  maybe your friend who she has been talking to would agree to do that.  if she does, i would copy her on any email that is sent.  and i would do it by saying that it isn't really about the two of you, it is about how it is affecting the group.

 

fwiw,

ann

[Truscifi]

A think the above posts are wise. There's definitely no need to engage with her, and he behaviour is quite unusual.

 

However, I caution you (for your own sake) that it sounds a bit like you actually consider her to be cold, calculating and intentional about what she is doing... That she has a plan, that she is acting against you on purpose.

 

Her actions don't read like that to me. They read like someone with a (very mild) disability or developmental delay -- someone who has 99% of the usual social skills, but gets in over her head (and doesn't want that to be her fault). She sounds a lot like an elderly lady I know.

 

I suggest that you can take her honestly, that she was just trying to be 'jokey' -- that she was absorbed in her rocks, etc. That doesn't mean that it's OK, but I feel differently (and plan differently) when I believe someone is honestly missing the problem... Vs when I actually believe they are acting as my social enemy, setting me up, whatever.

 

bolt said it better than I would have, but this is sounds plausible to me. I wasn't thinking of a disability, just general social ineptness perhaps in addition to the cultural/personality issues.

[LostSurprise]

I'd get out of the meeting by telling her that it was a social mishap, I accepted her apology, and that I didn't understand the problem. 

 

I don't get crazy out of this. I agree with bolt. This is someone who has a very limited point of view and doesn't leave that POV easily. As such I would forgive her--she simply can't see things from other's POVs--and either limit interactions or create very strict boundaries for interaction with her. 

 

Often people like this have few friends, so the ones they cultivate seem larger to them then it may be to the people they befriend. Sometimes they even use this as a hold over those people. They apply an overlying narrative (we're such great friends and I'd do anything for you!) to the reality. Often they misinterpret things other people do and take offense or joy at things that don't make sense to the people around them. Your entire story seems to support her being this kind of person. 

 

Be very careful with her. Be very literal with her. Boundaries high and expectations low. 

[laundrycrisis]

This was my thought as well.  Kids who have difficulties with social interaction often grow up to become adults who have difficulties with social interaction.  She really may not understand how she is coming across in many situations or relationships.  She may be upset that her relationship with you turned negative, and have hopes of defending herself or trying to fix it (but will probably only dig herself into a deeper hole).  I would try to say something to her to encourage her to  move on and relax, and/or respect a boundary with you, so she doesn't feel the need to continue trying to resolve something. 

 

This is how the situation sounded to me also.  She sounds like someone who has some brain-based issues around social interaction.   The shiny rocks, the thinking you're her good friend when it's not the case - think about the kids you know who struggle with these kinds of things, and ask yourself if she could be struggling with similar challenges.  I think you'll find that if you view her actions through this lens (instead of the "she is intentionally manipulating me" lens), you'll find yourself feeling quite differently about her, and you'll be better equipped to address situations where she is behaving strangely.

 

[Guest submarines]

A think the above posts are wise. There's definitely no need to engage with her, and he behaviour is quite unusual.

 

However, I caution you (for your own sake) that it sounds a bit like you actually consider her to be cold, calculating and intentional about what she is doing... That she has a plan, that she is acting against you on purpose.

 

Her actions don't read like that to me. They read like someone with a (very mild) disability or developmental delay -- someone who has 99% of the usual social skills, but gets in over her head (and doesn't want that to be her fault). She sounds a lot like an elderly lady I know.

 

I suggest that you can take her honestly, that she was just trying to be 'jokey' -- that she was absorbed in her rocks, etc. That doesn't mean that it's OK, but I feel differently (and plan differently) when I believe someone is honestly missing the problem... Vs when I actually believe they are acting as my social enemy, setting me up, whatever.

 

:iagree:

 

From what I read in the first post, it seems that both of you might have some difficulties in communication and perceiving each other.

 

I don't really understand how her saying she was looking for shiny stuff in the rocks, could be interpreted as her not wanting to talk to you. Of course you can't convey intonation here, but the way you related the interaction doesn't make sense either.

 

If someone asked me what I was doing, and I replied that I was searching for certain rocks, and the person walked away, I would interpret it as the person not wanting to talk to me, not vice versa.

 

Regardless, I'd stay away from her.

 

[readinmom]

I wouldn't meet; period.  If you decide to send an email response, I would make it a very positive "let's move forward" message. This does not mean, however, that you ever intend on spending time with her again.

 

Often when an insecure person comes into an established group of friends, the outsider tries to do things to fit in at another's expense. Continuing to engage her in an sort of dialogue just feeds her purpose.

 

It's going to be hard, but you are going to have be the bigger person here. Your true friends/relationships will eventually see through her behaviors. You can be polite at get-togethers, but that's as far you need to take it.

[myfunnybunch]

I would come up with a statement of something like... Please stop bringing this up, we need to move on ....  Wash, rinse, repeat. 

 

I agree, except I'd say something like, "Oh dear, I felt we were able to voice our concerns about our miscommunication when we talked about it, so I've put it behind me. I'm sorry that's still bothering you. Let's leave it in the past. I'd rather focus on (current group activity)." And then, as Tammyla says, wash, rinse, repeat as needed.

 

It sets the boundary politely.

It tells her that you're not dwelling on the topic yourself.

It defines the incident as a miscommunication, which gives her an "out" and a way to view it without either of you having to be the bad guy.

You're acknowledging her feelings without taking responsibility for them. 

 

If she has some social communication challenges, it might take some time and patience, but if you set firm and polite boundaries, you and the rest of the group will either adjust to accommodate her communication style or she'll eventually wash out without you being a part of the drama.

 

Hugs, I know this stuff is hard to negotiate. :grouphug:

 

Cat

 

 

[mytwomonkeys]

If I didn't care for her but she was part of my group, I would probably meet with her and chalk it up to a misunderstanding. I would allow her to speak her peace and then be cordial in the future. It wouldn't be worth my time to make sure she understood my point of view at all. If she is manipulative and gossipy, I would guard my own words around her and let our relationship be only through the group.

 

I'm sure others would handle it differently. But if I'm being totally honest, I would just let the other person speak their peace, walk away knowing nothing was accomplished, but praying the drama would cease and the group could go back to less drama. I would try to nurture other friendships with additional play dates, etc. it would be very exhausting and stressful for me otherwise. I find manipulative and gossipy people rarely change, and I definitely don't want to be in a tangled web with them.

 

 

ETA - better yet, I agree with other posters. Don't meet. Handle it over the phone or via email. Give minimal attention to this.

[Wheres Toto]

Her actions come across to me like someone who was smoking a little weed or having a few drinks before coming to group.   I had someone in a group I ran that constantly flaked out, didn't show up for things (groups or smaller playdates), made really off-the-wall comments, acted inappropriately.  Turns out she smoked fairly regularly.

 

I would definitely avoid her as much as possible, avoid being alone with her, and have dh avoid being alone with her.  No need to be best friends, stick with being acquaintances and only seeing her when it's as part of the group.

[kwg]

Thank you so much for all your thoughts!  You all have given me a lot to think about.

 

Our meeting is planned for tomorrow but I am going to send her an email instead.  Hopefully that will be the end of this "issue" and we can move on.

 

ETA- I put the suggested book on hold as well as another by the same author.  Thank you!

[Anne in CA]

Some people worm their way into a group by pushing someone else out. This sounds to me like that sort of situation. I don't just think she has boundaries issues, I think some of the things you say sound scary and the only people I have known IRL who do them are criminals. Like, go to jail criminals. So, please don't meet with her alone. Don't let her push you out of the group either, that is really what she wants, I think. 

[Laurie4b]

I don't know how to quote a quote, but it seems significant to me that your dh's reaction was that that kind of drama was reserved for high school bf/gf problems. That's what I wondered about when I wondered if there was a sexual tone to it. The interaction with and about your dh seems very weird.

 

I asked whether you were the leader of the group because if it's a power-seeking person, they will undermine the leader and move in.

 

I think your idea of just having a pre-packaged response: "That's very inappropriate" for the future is wise. It flags the behavior right then and there.

 

"

What does she mean that your husband started it? He made a joke so she joked back which was ok...but then came to me and said "man your husband is mean when he drinks." FTR- things had just started he was no where near drunk or anything....or she thought he made a joke -he says he did not (i wasnt there) then she comes to me and says "your husband is in there kissing my butt" and when i said "i doubt that" she firmly told me "YES he was."

 

What does your husband say about that? How did it start as far as you know?  I think the very first time it started was she got mad at him at a birthday party.  She asked him and her husband to intervene with some children and my husband did not (neither did hers).  Prior to this everything between them seemed okay I thought.  The next time we all got together she fussed at him in front of a bunch of people for that and my husband said later he felt like that kind of stuff is reserved for high school girlfriend/boyfriend drama."

 

 

[Lisbeth]

She sounds like someone with a personality disorder, like a Borderline. Having a sitdown would be an utter waste of time, and would give her the idea that this drama she has created has validity and importance. I would do what others have said, a positive, "let's move on!" and remain polite but distant. Hopefully she will find somewhere else to be.

[kbutton]

I'd get out of the meeting by telling her that it was a social mishap, I accepted her apology, and that I didn't understand the problem. 

 

I don't get crazy out of this. I agree with bolt. This is someone who has a very limited point of view and doesn't leave that POV easily. As such I would forgive her--she simply can't see things from other's POVs--and either limit interactions or create very strict boundaries for interaction with her. 

 

Often people like this have few friends, so the ones they cultivate seem larger to them then it may be to the people they befriend. Sometimes they even use this as a hold over those people. They apply an overlying narrative (we're such great friends and I'd do anything for you!) to the reality. Often they misinterpret things other people do and take offense or joy at things that don't make sense to the people around them. Your entire story seems to support her being this kind of person. 

 

Be very careful with her. Be very literal with her. Boundaries high and expectations low. 

 

I think this is good advice, and I agree that it's very possible she has some kind of disorder that is developmental, not mental (or drama-based). I am fairly certain that my mother-in-law has some kind of undiagnosed developmental issue. The description by LostSuprise is how I try to approach her...however, that said, even if the problem is not from being a drama queen or having a narcissistic personality, she might still act like it! Her compensation skills may cause her to act like she has BPD; she might have developed a tendency to be passive aggressive if she didn't learn other strategies. My MIL has wildly inappropriate reactions to things--both over the top and underwhelming, depending on the situation. She changes her story more often than I change socks, while acting like she is normal, consistent, and up front with everyone (haha!). She doesn't see how she has one set of rules for herself and another set for everyone else. It's very unpleasant.

 

The literal part is very, very important if she does have a developmental issue. Even if she is not literal with you, you should always be literal with her. Avoid sarcasm too, even if she tries to use it. You can't gauge whether or not she understands certain types of humor, etc. by her using them herself. It's best to always be straightforward and serious.

 

[Catwoman]

Thank you so much for all your thoughts! You all have given me a lot to think about.

 

Our meeting is planned for tomorrow but I am going to send her an email instead. Hopefully that will be the end of this "issue" and we can move on.

 

ETA- I put the suggested book on hold as well as another by the same author. Thank you!

Did she respond to your email?

 

I think you did the right thing. :thumbup:

 

The woman sounds like a troublemaking wackadoodle.

[kwg]

Did she respond to your email?

 

I think you did the right thing. :thumbup:

 

The woman sounds like a troublemaking wackadoodle.

 

 

HA! If only it were that easy! No she hasn't responded.  I am trying to let whatver happens, happen. In the mean time, the floors in my house are all clean  :hurray:

[Catwoman]

HA! If only it were that easy! No she hasn't responded. I am trying to let whatver happens, happen. In the mean time, the floors in my house are all clean :hurray:

Hopefully, no news is good news. Maybe she will give up and leave you alone.

[kwg]

That is totally how I need to think of it! Until I hear otherwise anyway :-)

[Trish]

"I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't make comments about my husband, thanks." Smile.

 

I wouldn't engage her otherwise, or worry about talking/not talking to her. Don't encourage others who want to talk *about* her or anything else, that way you won't have to hear the drama. Only respond to meaningful emails related to group activities, not this loosey goosey stuff.

 

She sounds like a nut.