NatashainDFW Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I am just curious because I see this being devastating where I live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I can't vote because I am not in favor. I drive a fuel-efficient car to my full-time job. I live 20 miles from my job. The closest public transport would be 8 miles away, and would involve 2 hours each way (due to transfers, etc.) We can not move closer to my job due to the higher rent costs. Doubling my gas costs would be financially devastating at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 In our area, it would mean financial devastation. Most people with a job that actually pays a living wage live 45 miles away from their employer. Most of the jobs in this area are minimum wage, part time, no benefits. Since the state is in dire financial straits and Detroit's bankruptcy looks like it is going through which means that a lot of retirees are going to get their pensions stolen (one of the proposals was to pay only 16 cents on the dollar!!!!!) there will be a new wave of many thousands of individuals who will require public assistance in order to survive. There will be no money to invest in public transportation. peoples will literally go hungry because the state legislature passed a law that benefits /food stamps, rent assistance, utilities assistance, child care subsidy cannot be collected for morenthan four years. More families will enter cyclical poverty. So I'm not a supporter because there is no public transportation infrastructure already in place for most citizens in Michigan and frankly, in many areas of the Midwest and South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 The only reason we can afford to visit family in the States is because the price of fuel is lower down there. It's be a pretty sad day for us if that were to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I'm not in favor. Dh has a 45 minute commute and if he wanted to take a bus he would still have to drive 20 miles away. He drives a very old Corolla that still gets great gas mileage, but those prices would hurt too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onceuponatime Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 What I'm wondering is where would the extra money go? Who would benefit? Doesn't the market drive prices in the US? ETA: Because almost everything we consume is transported at some point, the cost of living would also sky rocket. I don't think Americans know how to live with significantly less, nor do they particularly want to. We would have to revamp our whole economic system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I'm not in favor either, for the reasons already mentioned above. The impact to those who rely on their cars to get to work would be devastating. We're already dealing with record unemployment and underemployment in the U.S. To place this additional burden on workers in this country would be unconscionable. I'm all for exploring alternatives to gas and coming up with more sustainable and environmentally friendlier solutions. But we're not there yet. Electric cars and hybrids are still way more expensive than conventional gas-fueled cars. Public transportation is insufficient across most parts of the U.S. Until the infrastructure is in place, artificially driving up gas prices is only going to further devastate U.S. families and the overall economy. It's not going to push people towards quicker adoption of greener solutions - because the solutions aren't ready for wide-spread adoption yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 My sister could take the bus to college except that she is not walking distance to a bus stop and would have to walk through a very unsafe neighborhood if she were up for a three mile walk. She was going to drive to the bus stop and then ride from there but there is nowhere to park for free and since she doesn't work in the area, she can't get a discount parking pass. $15.00 per day for parking! It costs her $3.00 for gas and $2.00 to park on campus so it is a huge savings to drive. That is the way it is in so many places in America. The system just isn't friendly towards public transport. I wish it was. Other drivers make me crazy! I'd love to be able to take the train everywhere. and then walk a few blocks to do this or that though admittedly this is not ideal when trying to get to the doctor with sick or injured children! Faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I would suspect that the majority of people who believe that gas prices in the USA should equal the prices in Europe, are people who live in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 As onceuponatime mentioned above, commodities prices would soar - as if they haven't gone up enough in the last two years! We are stretching our budget as far as it will go. We might could eek out the extra fuel cost with me picking up a few more part time hours. But the rise in groceries and other consumer goods would send me back to work full time. I would personally love to live in a more nuclear, even pedestrian community, but having it forced on us via fuel taxes seems the wrong way to go about it. Like faith said, the infrastructure just isn't in place for that kind of change without making other, steps-along-the-way changes first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatHomeschoolDad Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 This is a year old, but lays it out succinctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I think any US politician who proposes it should be required to drive cross country, going through Kansas, and paying cash (not reimbursed) for gas. If you are only familiar with the East or West Coast, you have a very limited view of the United States. This is a massive country and very sparsely populated in large segments. There are areas where, if you see a sign saying "Last gas station for 100 miles", you take it very seriously. I also think any politician proposing rail as a solution should take a cross-country train from DC, paying cash (not reimbursed) for the ticket and seeing just how long and how expensive it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Here's a map of the population density of various countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_population_density_map.PNG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 As onceuponatime mentioned above, commodities prices would soar - as if they haven't gone up enough in the last two years! We are stretching our budget as far as it will go. We might could eek out the extra fuel cost with me picking up a few more part time hours. But the rise in groceries and other consumer goods would send me back to work full time. I would personally love to live in a more nuclear, even pedestrian community, but having it forced on us via fuel taxes seems the wrong way to go about it. Like faith said, the infrastructure just isn't in place for that kind of change without making other, steps-along-the-way changes first. I am lucky enough that I live in an old suburb that I could walk everywhere...grocery, library, park, pediatrician, ice rink, pool, restaurants, drug store, etc. But 5 miles how the crow flies, you'd take your life in your hands trying to walk anywhere. And having lived and travelled in the West and Midwest, I know how isolated some places are. So ditto about the infrastructure you and Faith mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatHomeschoolDad Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I also think any politician proposing rail as a solution should take a cross-country train from DC, paying cash (not reimbursed) for the ticket and seeing just how long and how expensive it is. LOL. I used to take Amtrak once a month from NYC to Pittsburgh. Drive time, 6 hours. Train time, 12. There were times we were chugging along at walking speed. Our rail system isn't really a system at all, but rather little bits cobbled together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 LOL. I used to take Amtrak once a month from NYC to Pittsburgh. Drive time, 6 hours. Train time, 12. There were times we were chugging along at walking speed. Our rail system isn't really a system at all, but rather little bits cobbled together. In NYC, I regularly took Amtrak to Philly, Boston, and DC. There are not many traffic corridors (short distance, high density) in the US that can support rail. Planes are faster; buses are more flexible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatHomeschoolDad Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 In NYC, I regularly took Amtrak to Philly, Boston, and DC. There are not many traffic corridors (short distance, high density) in the US that can support rail. Planes are faster; buses are more flexible. Not to mention municipalities from small to large, that would all get in a snit at any regional proposal to build dedicated lines. That's another US vs Europe vs Asia thing. The US is really just a loose assortment of micro nations travelling in rough formation. We'll never see a real bullet train network here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 What thread is this thread a spin-off of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 What thread is this thread a spin-off of? The "Confess Your Unpopular Opinion" thread. A few people shared the opinion that U.S. gas prices should equal Europe's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I pay those prices and live in the countryside. I work as an office administrator and spend £35 a week on petrol (small car) for my commute, so about USD 58. One lives with it. L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I would suspect that the majority of people who believe that gas prices in the USA should equal the prices in Europe, are people who live in Europe. I have a half sister who had never lived in the USA. She came for a visit. She could not understand that she would need a car. At that point, she had lived in many different countries in Europe and South and Central America. It wasn't until she was here that she understood how necessary driving was, or how spread out America is. She thought she could zip down to FL for a day at the beach.... I pay those prices and live in the countryside. I work as an office administrator and spend £35 a week on petrol (small car) for my commute, so about USD 58. One lives with it. L Yeah, I spend $100 a week on gas. Minimum. I don't even live out in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I don't agree.North America is a lot more spread out than Europe.Canada's prices are close to those of Europe. With even less population density than the US, and those people still have to drive to get to work. All it does is cost more for everything, including wages. My family, in rural prairie province, have a higher cost of living than we do in Southern California. Most people think SoCal is expensive, but in my experience, it's not as bad as it could be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Yeah, I'm not in favor of it. DH drives 45 miles each way to work, five days a week, and even in a car that gets 30mpg or more, that still adds up. It would seriously impact us financially to pay more for gas. (In fact, when gas hits around $4 here, we ARE impacted; if it costs more for DH's commute, we cut back on outside activities that we do as a family -- we don't do a lot of them anyway, but when gas is high, we cut down on things like trips to state parks.) (And no, don't tell me to move closer to DH's work. We'd pay more for a house down there than we do in commuting costs, which is why we live all the way up here.) Otoh, if gas was that high, DH would have a good case to lobby his employer for working at home, which would be nice (and very doable, via the internet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 It's something that would have to be done gradually, and infrastructure would have to be put in place to make it feasible. Everything from bike friendly roads to adequate public transit, something non-existent in many parts of the U.S. and inadequate most places it does exist. Money currently subsidizing fuel prices would have to be reallocated to building infrastructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SproutMamaK Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I don't think US gas prices should equal Europe's, but I do think the US needs to work on transportation infrastructure so that there are more viable options for travel.That in and of itself would cost billions. But with gas prices going up as they are... either way, someone's gotta pay sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMA Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 To extend the commuter rail to the South Coast in Massachusetts would cost almost 2 billion. This is just for a rail that would give 1 to 1 1/2 hour ride into the Boston area. And around here it is cheaper to commute than to live close to the city. The commuting costs are much, much less than the property taxes of places around the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 California is actually going totally the wrong way about it IMHO because they are talking about scrapping the flat per gallon tax and substituting a per-mile one. So those of us who can't afford to live close to the city but who drive fuel efficient vehicles would be screwed while all the owners of gas-guzzlers who can afford to live close by would be helped by the shift. DH takes BART (light rail) home from work but because he works market hours and has to be in super-early, I drop him off at his office in the morning. The trains don't run frequently that time of day so taking BART in the morning would turn the trip from 45 minutes into at least 1 hr. 15 min. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatHomeschoolDad Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 The cost of an actual gallon of fuel is set on the global exchange markets. What taxes any nation adds on top is the big difference. Whether the US wants European-level infrastructure will depend on whether we are willing to pay for it. Historically, the answer has been "meh." Sorry, 2005 is the first graph I grabbed. The point is the same, tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 As far as I know, tax on petrol in the UK goes into general taxation, rather than being hypothecated for infrastructure. Because of taxation, we are able to pay for a universal health care system and cheap university fees (USD 15,000 per annum for Oxford). For families, paying higher prices for petrol probably works out cheaper than paying US-level health insurance premiums (plus tax for some uninsured) or US-level university fees. I'm not arguing that the US should have high prices for petrol - I don't care either way. I'm just laying out the choices that countries make. L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I can't vote because I am not in favor. I drive a fuel-efficient car to my full-time job. I live 20 miles from my job. The closest public transport would be 8 miles away, and would involve 2 hours each way (due to transfers, etc.) We can not move closer to my job due to the higher rent costs. Doubling my gas costs would be financially devastating at this time. If the price increase was for taxes to support a better transportation infrastructure so that you could take an efficient bus/train route to work, would you think it worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumto2 Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I don't want the US prices to equal Europe because of our vacations but I do feel the need to share with you a calculation dh and I made regarding our European habits compared to American. We kept the milage identical -- oddly enough it is irl. In the US we drive a basic mini van which gets 20 miles to the gallon. Our insurance is on the inexpensive side for typical US. Milage identical. In UK we bought an economy model that gets 60 miles to the gallon typically (for this calculation we used 50). Our far better insurance liability wise costs way less and includes goodies like roadside coverage, airfare home from the continent in case of breakdown. Lots of coverage. When we compare the actual cost for our family to own a vehicle last year it was $2500 a year less to drive in Europe. Budget wise in Europe we spend $4000 compared to US which would be $6500. Yes we drive a small car but most do. We seat 5 not 7. The car is diesel and manual. The price of petrol changes habits and that isn't totally bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherri in MI Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Pardon me, if I am ignorant on this topic. I'm not sure I understand why anyone (American or not) would want our gas prices to be higher? I wouldn't want to wish higher prices for anything for anyone, in any country. It seems somewhat malicious thinking to me. Is the idea for our government to artificially inflate gas prices to force us to buy smaller cars/conserve on gas? That seems coercive and very unAmerican. Conservation is a good thing, but not done that way. What am I missing? Our area is rural. Our life is already very "small" because our income is so low - there are a lot of things we don't do. But I do have to drive a lot of miles to do anything, even just to see a friend (17 miles to church; 8 miles to grocery store, 20 miles to Walmart; 20 miles to movie theater). My husband drives from place to place for his job. We are already hurting financially. Higher gas prices would confine us even more and I agree with whoever said it would make the cost of everything go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I'm not sure I understand why anyone (American or not) would want our gas prices to be higher? I wouldn't want to wish higher prices for anything for anyone, in any country. It seems somewhat malicious thinking to me. Is the idea for our government to artificially inflate gas prices to force us to buy smaller cars/conserve on gas? That seems coercive and very unAmerican. Conservation is a good thing, but not done that way. What am I missing? The people I know IRL who advocate higher gas taxes are global warming alarmists. They are also population doomsayers and think that it's totally irresponsible for anyone to have more than a single biological child ("if you want more than one, just adopt!" is their mantra). Higher prices on everything they would see as a good thing because it would up the incentive to reduce/reuse/recycle more and buy less, lowering the "carbon footprint". Everyone I know who holds this worldview is a yuppie who lives in a city or dense suburb with easy access to public transit, Zipcars, ride-sharing services like Lyft or Uber, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Pardon me, if I am ignorant on this topic. I'm not sure I understand why anyone (American or not) would want our gas prices to be higher? I wouldn't want to wish higher prices for anything for anyone, in any country. It seems somewhat malicious thinking to me. Is the idea for our government to artificially inflate gas prices to force us to buy smaller cars/conserve on gas? That seems coercive and very unAmerican. Conservation is a good thing, but not done that way. What am I missing? Our area is rural. Our life is already very "small" because our income is so low - there are a lot of things we don't do. But I do have to drive a lot of miles to do anything, even just to see a friend (17 miles to church; 8 miles to grocery store, 20 miles to Walmart; 20 miles to movie theater). My husband drives from place to place for his job. We are already hurting financially. Higher gas prices would confine us even more and I agree with whoever said it would make the cost of everything go up. I don't think US gas prices should be equal to Europe's. But, I could see supporting a tax increase that is earmarked for improving infrastructure (roads, bridges, public transit systems, etc). Our infrastructure is aging and needs improvement. BUT, I don't think people who think that are *at all* malicious. Anyone who has lived in both the US and Europe (and there are quite a few of us here) knows how differently they are set up. I think *if* we were to have a tax on gas that equaled Europe's (and, again, I'm not in favor of that), then it would eventually change the landscape of the US. I think you'd eventually see small towns with their own small town centers and rail systems connecting them to bigger cities. I think it works better than our crazy urban/suburban sprawl issues. It would drive us toward a completely different infrastructure which would probably be beneficial to everyone. We lived in 2 different places in Germany. The first was a medium sized city of about 40,000 people. We could easily walk to the downtown area. You could grocery shop, go to the bakery, go to a movie, any of that kind of stuff. There were both bus and rail systems that helped transport people in from outlying areas. There are no separate school buses. Kids ride the city buses. The second place we lived was a small town. There were shops, a farmers market, etc. You could easily hop on the train to go to a movie theater or something else in a bigger town. So, understand, a lot of people here have lived both sides of this coin. What they understand is that changing the way Americans live would be beneficial to families like yours in *many* ways, if infrastructure was changed and improved. It isn't a malicious way of thinking at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I don't want the US prices to equal Europe because of our vacations but I do feel the need to share with you a calculation dh and I made regarding our European habits compared to American. We kept the milage identical -- oddly enough it is irl. In the US we drive a basic mini van which gets 20 miles to the gallon. Our insurance is on the inexpensive side for typical US. Milage identical. In UK we bought an economy model that gets 60 miles to the gallon typically (for this calculation we used 50). Our far better insurance liability wise costs way less and includes goodies like roadside coverage, airfare home from the continent in case of breakdown. Lots of coverage. When we compare the actual cost for our family to own a vehicle last year it was $2500 a year less to drive in Europe. Budget wise in Europe we spend $4000 compared to US which would be $6500. Yes we drive a small car but most do. We seat 5 not 7. The car is diesel and manual. The price of petrol changes habits and that isn't totally bad. Interesting. I wanted to add that I recently purchased a diesel (automatic) and am getting 47 mpg. So despite the premium on diesel, my fuel expenditures are much reduced. While I too do not want to see gas taxes skyrocket, I do think that Americans have not had much incentive to conserve which is why most drive inefficient vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto10blessings Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Definitely not in favor. My husband has to commute for work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Definitely not in favor. My husband has to commute for work I know a lot of people gave this sort of answer. But, I think if US gas prices doubled and that money went toward changing infrastructure, then you'd see urban sprawl change. I think *eventually* fewer people would need to commute so far to work. Oahu has *massive* traffic problems. They are putting in a light rail system, but I think it's going to only going to be a single rail system, which means it won't help as much as a multi-rail system with express trains would. My daughter does theater downtown. The theater is 12 miles from my house. It takes us about 40 minutes to get there, if there are no traffic accidents (there are OFTEN traffic accidents, there were two yesterday). What *is* slowly helping? The fact that Honolulu is so congested that they are starting to build and move infrastructure and businesses to other parts of the island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatHomeschoolDad Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 As far as I know, tax on petrol in the UK goes into general taxation, rather than being hypothecated for infrastructure. Because of taxation, we are able to pay for a universal health care system and cheap university fees (USD 15,000 per annum for Oxford). For families, paying higher prices for petrol probably works out cheaper than paying US-level health insurance premiums (plus tax for some uninsured) or US-level university fees. L And your infant mortality rates are better, too. Hey, it's all just money, and how much we want to pay. Getting 300 million people on board all at once isn't likely, but social security and medicare were each flamed in their early years as massive mistakes, so it's worth it to sit back and watch the soundbites being lobbed hither and yon. Churchill said America always does the right thing after we've tried everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I'm wondering who thinks such a thing? :huh: Gas and food prices are killing us as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto10blessings Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I know a lot of people gave this sort of answer. But, I think if US gas prices doubled and that money went toward changing infrastructure, then you'd see urban sprawl change. I think *eventually* fewer people would need to commute so far to work. Oahu has *massive* traffic problems. They are putting in a light rail system, but I think it's going to only going to be a single rail system, which means it won't help as much as a multi-rail system with express trains would. My daughter does theater downtown. The theater is 12 miles from my house. It takes us about 40 minutes to get there, if there are no traffic accidents (there are OFTEN traffic accidents, there were two yesterday). What *is* slowly helping? The fact that Honolulu is so congested that they are starting to build and move infrastructure and businesses to other parts of the island. Our nearest town is half an hour. He's a contractor so has to drive a truck. Even if he could work nearby, driving to the town to pick up supplies once a day would be expensive. And if forgets something, runs out of something or has to buy more?? Yikes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Our nearest town is half an hour. He's a contractor so has to drive a truck. Even if he could work nearby, driving to the town to pick up supplies once a day would be expensive. And if forgets something, runs out of something or has to buy more?? Yikes! You quoted my post which included this bit, "the fact that Honolulu is so congested that they are starting to build and move infrastructure and businesses to other parts of the island." So, contractors had to drive into "town" (which is what everyone calls Honolulu here) for supplies. But, as traffic congestion grew worse and gas prices increased, they built supply places elsewhere. Now, they can get supplies in Pearl City or Kapolei instead of always driving into Honolulu. Other solutions tend to show themselves when one option becomes too expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Is the idea for our government to artificially inflate gas prices to force us to buy smaller cars/conserve on gas? As far as I know, your gas prices are low because your government artificially suppresses the price. (I haven't read about this in years so this may no longer be the case.) I think the US has a much better chance of reducing commuter times than we do here in Oz because you have more than one major city in most states. It's quite frustrating here, with virtually all white collar jobs being in the one major city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes on gas. I get so aggravated by the "why walk/bike when you can just drive everywhere?" crowd. And don't even get me started on Halloween, where we had a line of SUVs shuttling kids from house to house on a warm night in safe neighborhoods with wide sidewalks. Heaven forbid kids walk ten feet to the next house when they can just hop in mommy's Escalade and be driven the ten feet. Or the people who are enraged about our city's plan to expand the walking paths and add in more bike trails for the downtown area because the construction will temporarily make it harder for them to drive everywhere, and according to them, no one in their right mind would ever voluntarily walk or bike anywhere when they could drive there instead, so the city should just build more parking spaces. Aaarrrggghhh. Bring on the gas taxes. Maybe it will shake people out of their mindset that the outdoors are for cars and anyone walking or biking needs to get the heck out of their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRG Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I don't understand the sentiment. Where I live there is no public transportation. A lot of the United States is still rural and a mass public transit system or neighborhood markets are just not something that we have here. A rise of fuel costs to that degree would cripple many towns and families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 As far as I know, your gas prices are low because your government artificially suppresses the price. (I haven't read about this in years so this may no longer be the case.) I think the US has a much better chance of reducing commuter times than we do here in Oz because you have more than one major city in most states. It's quite frustrating here, with virtually all white collar jobs being in the one major city. I was under that same impression as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Our gas prices at the pump do not reflect the true cost of gasoline. The relatively low price of gas in America is an artificial construct. It is lower because we subsidize the heck out of gas in this country. That money comes from somewhere. We're paying it, just not at the pump. But we like our illusions. Perhaps pulling back the curtain to reveal the illusion and moving steadily toward personally paying the real cost of gasoline would also accelerate progress toward reducing our dependence on it. At the very least, it would cause many to reconsider gas guzzlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Well we subsidize junk cereal and McDonald's too so why not gas? Yeah, I don't want to subsidize that crap either. Two wrongs don't make a right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susankenny Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 We can barely afford gas costs now. It would be financially crippling here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I don't understand the sentiment. Where I live there is no public transportation. A lot of the United States is still rural and a mass public transit system or neighborhood markets are just not something that we have here. A rise of fuel costs to that degree would cripple many towns and families. Lots of Europe is rural too. Most people live in small villages, not big towns. There is a rail system that connects the small villages to bigger towns. I'd like to reiterate that I'm not advocating for doubling our gas prices. But, I do think the argument is usually using the tax money to improve our infrastructure, to include rail systems. It might hurt people in the short term, but it would change things in the long term. At least, that's how I would see things happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 But truth is it would be painfully hard for people to live with super high gas prices. I can live without Lucky Charms and McDonald's. That is why I mentioned a steady move in that direction. Obviously an overnight change would be devastating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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