Unbelievable (youth group related...and long)

[BakersDozen]

I posted a while back about the new youth pastor who felt it necessary and appropriate to bring in games such as Call of Duty and Halo because kids won't attend unless stuff like this is offered. :glare: After a gentle discussion, I was assured that the games were to be moved to a separate room...they weren't and are still going strong (interestingly enough, only a few kids actually play them; the rest go outside and interact with each other).

 

Tonight I was sitting with my dh and our 6 younger dc waiting for Bible Quiz to be done. The pastor of the church approached and nicely informed us that after a parent meeting it was decided that all younger kids be kept on the other side of the building (there is a door that is closed/locked during the youth group/younger Bible Quiz time). We were a bit taken back because for the last few years families hung out in the youth area - younger siblings, parents, youth. There was never an issue. The door separating the two areas was kept open until 6:15 when it was closed/locked for safety and crowd control while the younger kids did Bible Quiz. The door is now locked at 4:00.

 

I asked a few of the moms who have been involved for years about this new policy and they knew nothing of a meeting or decisions resulting from it. I went with one of the moms to ask the pastor what the official rule now was and he confirmed that no one except for youth is to be on the "youth" side of the building. Here is his reasoning:

 

"Mixing ages doesn't work. Having elementary school kids with teenagers will never work. Combining preschoolers with elementary kids will never work. Plus, the youth need that time away from the little kids to "gel" as a group."

 

At that point I asked him (very respectfully) how this decision/conclusion had been reached - parents, the youth themselves, etc? He studied me for a moment then said, "The youth pastor wants it that way and I support him in this because combining ages will never work."

 

Ladies, I am dumbfounded. The youth didn't complain, the parents didn't complain, and there was no parent meeting. A youth pastor who is raising a truly dreadful 5yo (dreadful by her parents' own admission!) made this decision for everyone.

 

The youth in Bible Quiz/youth group walk up to their parents/siblings and hug them, play with them, and embrace the family environment. The younger siblings were never in the way and were never unwelcome...until now.

 

I now get to drop my teens off at 4:00 for Bible Quiz then be banished to the other side of the building where we are given permission to use the classrooms (we can't use the playground until two church workers are present which isn't until 6:30! Even as parents we can't supervise our own children!). I cannot be where my teenagers are because as we were clearly told by the pastor, "Your older kids can come find you rather than you coming over here to find them."

 

I love Bible Quiz, I love the kids in it and the fellowship my dc have with their friends. But this...what do we do? How do we work with this?? In order for my dc to participate in Quiz they are required to attend youth group (although we have been quietly told that we could miss quite a few and not get in trouble). I don't want to remove them from Quiz and there is no other Quiz group in the area, plus their closest friends are in this group.

 

My 13yod said, "Well, Mom, between Quiz and youth group we will all come out on the lawn in front of the building and play with everyone all together! They can't lock you out of the lawn, can they?"

 

Long post over. If I really am out of line and have no cause to be this upset, someone please tell me!

[tntgoodwin]

Well, maybe some parents were upset by violent video games, and they decided to separate the younger children from the teens?

[Liz CA]

If there are other Moms who are questioning this new policy, I would go as a group and ask for a meeting with the head pastor and youth pastor. Even if you are the only one wondering about this and it bothers you enough, I'd probably ask for an appointment.

Especially if you are doubting what the new youth leader's motives are.

[thebacabunch]

I don't understand the locked door thing.

 

I have no problem with youth meeting separately. They do need the separation to gel together imo.

[Oakblossoms]

My older three are allowed to play those games. I would be upset if they were playing them at youth group. Why would they do that?

[Carol in Cal.]

You can't fix stupid. "Don't confuse me with facts; my mind is made up," seems to be the stance here. I would try to get things changed, nicely, along with the other parents, but this youth pastor clearly has rather poor judgement coupled with a great deal of conviction. That is a foolish combination, and other craziness will happen. It's time to instruct your kids as to what to go along with and what not to. Next is probably one of those blindfolded 'you are all going to be arrested and shot' games--it's all the rage in these kinds of groups. Very unfortunate.

[happi duck]

:glare: at the situation and :grouphug: to you and yours!

[thebacabunch]

btw, our youth meet separately for activities, but there is never a locked door and we ALWAYS have access to them. They don't do things that wouldn't be appropriate for all ages, they are mostly separated because they can gel together and they have spiritual needs that are unique for their age.

[BakersDozen]

I have no problem with youth meeting separately. They do need the separation to gel together imo.

The problem, though, is that the new youth pastor inherited a youth group that was completely "gelled" (is that a word). This is an amazing group of young people who love their families and who are very used to being with a huge range of ages (the majority are homeschooled) without any issue. My gut is that the youth leader is seeking less "gel" and more "separation".

 

Next is probably one of those blindfolded 'you are all going to be arrested and shot' games--it's all the rage in these kinds of groups.

Oh good grief...seriously?! I'll have to look into that and have a chat with my dc.

 

My older three are allowed to play those games. I would be upset if they were playing them at youth group. Why would they do that?

"You have to use this kind of stuff to get kids in and win them to Christ." I about fell out of my chair when I heard that one.

 

Well, maybe some parents were upset by violent video games, and they decided to separate the younger children from the teens?

That was not presented as a reason. I was the most vocal about the video games yet I would never want things to go as they are! Throw out the games that don't need to be there (the games, interestingly enough, led to separation of the few kids who do play them from the rest of the group...so much for "gelling").

 

but this youth pastor clearly has rather poor judgement coupled with a great deal of conviction. That is a foolish combination

You describe this guy perfectly.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Surely you can find Bible quiz type programs at another church with leaders with better judgment and wisdom.

[Liz CA]

Next is probably one of those blindfolded 'you are all going to be arrested and shot' games--it's all the rage in these kinds of groups. Very unfortunate.

 

What is the goal of this "game?" Never heard of this but my ds has been out of youth group for several years now.

[Carol in Cal.]

What is the goal of this "game?" Never heard of this but my ds has been out of youth group for several years now.

 

To give an idea of what it's like to be in a persecuted church. It's actually terrifying, like a real kidnapping. I think that it is wrong.

[Tammi K]

Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding but it sounds from your description that a throughway door (between two sections of the building) is being locked while people are in the building. All other issues aside, isn't this a safety/fire egress issue? I'm probably reading it wrong but I get the visual image of the youth pastor locking kids in to keep everyone away.:001_huh:

:grouphug: I hope you can all arrive at a solution.

[Liz CA]

To give an idea of what it's like to be in a persecuted church. It's actually terrifying, like a real kidnapping. I think that it is wrong.

 

Good Grief.

[Shamzanne]

So the pastor of your church told you that a decision was reached after a parent meeting, and you then find out that no meeting took place? I would be going to the board of the church, the superintendent, whoever to discuss the fact that your pastor lied to you. Although I also would have left over the video game thing. I would DEFINITELY not let this slide. Show your children that the church should not behave in this way.

[GWOB]

Ummm.... NO!!! I love the idea of youth group, but I clearly remember all the "sinning" I did when youth group was closed from parents. IMO, and my oldest is only 12, a good youth pastor should welcome/beg for/encourage parent participation. This guy wants to lock the parents out? Oh he!! no! Silly me thought youth group was intended to encourage young teens in their life with Christ. And a pastor making a unilateral decision like that? Would not fly in this house (not that our Pastor would ever do such a thing). If I were you, I too would be livid.

[Ellie]

Ummm.... NO!!! I love the idea of youth group, but I clearly remember all the "sinning" I did when youth group was closed from parents. IMO, and my oldest is only 12, a good youth pastor should welcome/beg for/encourage parent participation. This guy wants to lock the parents out? Oh he!! no! Silly me thought youth group was intended to encourage young teens in their life with Christ. And a pastor making a unilateral decision like that? Would not fly in this house (not that our Pastor would ever do such a thing). If I were you, I too would be livid.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Although I'm not necessarily opposed to pastors making unilateral decisions, this particular one is wrong on so many levels. It is exactly this kind of thing that would cause me to leave that church...after talking with the pastor and telling him why, of course, because he should know why. I wouldn't call the other parents and make a big stink about it, but neither would I be shy about telling others if they asked me outright.

 

Oh, and the word is "jell," not "gel." :)

[bettyandbob]

It sounds "what won't work" is for families/parents to be present and therefore somewhat observing the activities. The youth pastor is uncomfortable with parents knowing what he's doing.that's disurbing. I don't have a problem with youth meeting behind closed doors that are unlocked. The problem I have is he's trying create secrecy.

 

I think you need to meet with all the youth group parents and church leadership.

[Mama Geek]

Talk to the other parents, if you find that there are others like you who aren't happy with what is going on then maybe you can all get together and start your own group or take over the leadership of the group that exists especially if as a group you approach the pastors and nothing changes. It doesn't sound like you will get very far with them.

[kiana]

It sounds "what won't work" is for families/parents to be present and therefore somewhat observing the activities. The youth pastor is uncomfortable with parents knowing what he's doing.that's disurbing. I don't have a problem with youth meeting behind closed doors that are unlocked. The problem I have is he's trying create secrecy.

 

I think you need to meet with all the youth group parents and church leadership.

 

I agree. This is very disturbing. What on earth is the pastor doing over there?

[frugalmama]

I'd be VERY worried. #1 you have a fire safety issue in having a locked door that likely leads to a main exit. #2 Is there anyone else adult with the youth pastor during youth group? His behavior sounds like grooming behavior for an abuser.

 

I'd demand to have another parent meeting with ALL the youth group parents present.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

Locking the doors is a big red flag. No door should be locked when children are in the room. Is there an assistant youth pastor in the room also? Or is it just one adult with the youth? I have worked in all age ranges in church and NEVER was a door locked. Parents were welcome to sit in any class with their children.

 

As for the video games, are these available for use during a scheduled event or for social time? It is weird that these particular games were brought in, (I personally have no problem with them in my own home). Video games can be fun in a group setting and their are many fun group type party video games out there that could be used instead. Maybe you can suggest these instead of the ones he has. Could be these were his games he brought in.

 

Over the many years I have worked in children/youth I have met some interesting youth pastors. The ones I have had the most trouble with are very young and try to be more of a popular guy then a mentor/leader/pastor to the youth.

[Matryoshka]

I'd be VERY worried. #1 you have a fire safety issue in having a locked door that likely leads to a main exit. #2 Is there anyone else adult with the youth pastor during youth group? His behavior sounds like grooming behavior for an abuser.

 

:iagree: Does the church not realize the huge liability it is opening itself up to with this kind of policy? Even if this guy isn't a predator but just a midguided idiot, all it would take is one kid to make an accusation, and that locked door would come back to bite them big time. It is wise to avoid even the appearance of impropriety, and this sends up huge red flags.

 

And no way would I allow my kids to attend any kind of activity behind locked doors. Yikes.

[angela in ohio]

It sounds "what won't work" is for families/parents to be present and therefore somewhat observing the activities. The youth pastor is uncomfortable with parents knowing what he's doing.that's disurbing. I don't have a problem with youth meeting behind closed doors that are unlocked. The problem I have is he's trying create secrecy.

 

I think you need to meet with all the youth group parents and church leadership.

 

:iagree:

 

And about his horrible 5 yo... It always amazes me that people are willing to put their teen group in the hands of people who are raising their own young dc badly. I've seen this before. The youth leaders at one church we attended couldn't parent their way out of a paper bag, but they were put in charge of the youth?!

 

Like a pp, we've seen youth pastors who would do anything to "fit in" with the youth, with no concept of leading them or guiding them religiously. It seems like this may be the case here.

[Pippen]

I would schedule a small representative group of parents to talk first with youth pastor, and then take it higher if your concerns aren't heard.

 

 

Our youth area is adjacent to the gym that is used by the younger kids on youth group night. Our youth do seem to enjoy having an area that's designated primarily for them. Parents and families feel free to go in and out of the room but I would never choose that area to just hang out in while they are there.

[Kathryn]

It sounds "what won't work" is for families/parents to be present and therefore somewhat observing the activities. The youth pastor is uncomfortable with parents knowing what he's doing.that's disurbing. I don't have a problem with youth meeting behind closed doors that are unlocked. The problem I have is he's trying create secrecy.

 

I think you need to meet with all the youth group parents and church leadership.

 

I'd be VERY worried. #1 you have a fire safety issue in having a locked door that likely leads to a main exit. #2 Is there anyone else adult with the youth pastor during youth group? His behavior sounds like grooming behavior for an abuser.

 

I'd demand to have another parent meeting with ALL the youth group parents present.

 

:iagree:

[Katy]

I wouldn't put up with this. No way, no how. First, for safety issues. How much I would confront it vs finding another church I suppose would depend on the size of the church and how involved we were as a family.

 

Also, WHY is someone who is BAD at parenting working as a pastor? The bible is very clear on that. If he can't handle his own family he certainly can't be trusted with others.

 

If I had a problem getting through to the pastor(s), I can't imagine DH not getting involved for me. Sometimes men just don't listen unless it's to other men.

[TammyS]

My family has never been involved in youth groups for two reasons:

 

1. I do not believe that encouraging teens to form a separate sub-culture from everyone else is proper, and this is what society and youth groups encourage. Ironically, yours is the only one that I have heard of that avoids this pitfall and your youth pastor is trying to create it! :svengo:

 

2. Every single youth group I have ever seen was run by a "youth pastor" who was themselves basically a youth. You cannot, CAN NOT hope to provide real guidance to young people when you don't have the life experience to have a clue. Personally, I don't think anyone who doesn't have at least one GROWN AND INDEPENDANTLY FUNCTIONING adult child should even be considered for the position.

 

I wouldn't be talking to the parents about a locked door. That's just a symptom. I would be talking about a deeper rethinking of what the entire program ought to look like.

[Janice in NJ]

Speak up.

Don't be meek about your thoughts. Be confident.

 

The church can be one of the more backward institutions when it comes to dividing people. No more thought goes into it than goes into separating the items in your silverware drawer. Forks into one bin. Big spoons and little spoons into separate bins. Knives into the fourth. And then the rest of junk gets piled into the big compartment in the front because that's where it seems to fit. Not very eternity-minded.

 

The women's group. The men's group. Pre-school. Kids club. Teens. Singles. You name it - the church has a group for it. They sort by size and shape with no real thought about what makes people people.

 

Really. That's about all the thought that goes into this. That's why you can't get answers. There are no intelligent answers.

 

The church is way behind on this one. Speak up. Don't be ashamed to point to the elephant in the room. You're not behind the times. You're trying to bring the church forward.

 

And remember that youth pastors don't usually have the kind of experience needed to do their job well. You don't need to be young to connect with kids. You need to be wise to connect with kids. Dh and I went to a "parent's meeting" at a church we were considering. The youth pastor (and his wife) were fresh out of college.

 

They insisted, "Your kids will talk to us about things that they won't talk to you about. That's why we're here."

My dh asked directly, "Did you put that idea in their heads? Did you tell them, 'We know that you're not comfortable talking to your parents. You can talk to us about things that you don't want to talk to your parents about.'?"

They answered proudly, "Yes, that's what we tell them."

Dh responded, "That's the most ridiculous, divisive thing I've ever heard. Why would you intentionally try to drive a wedge between my kids and me? Do you really think you are better equipped to offer them advice and guidance than their mother and their father?"

 

We left.

You just can't help the ignorant.

Don't be afraid to be wise. Speak up. Follow your gut. The youth pastor isn't going to be there to solve the problems he creates. You're going to have to clean up the mess.

 

Treat folly like folly. You have enough work to do without allowing someone to create work for you. Think of it this way: would you let a toddler eat pizza on your new couch just because the teen babysitter said it was a good idea? No! Rather than worry about the teen's feelings, you would pick up the toddler and put them in the kitchen. Then you would turn to the teen and say, "We don't eat pizza in the living room." End of discussion.

 

It's really no more complicated than that.

 

Speak up. I doubt they have really put too much thought into this. If they have, they will have wise answers at the ready. If not, understand that you as a supporting member of the church are paying the bills. It's time to instruct the folks whom you are paying about what it is that you are looking for. "Oh for heaven's sake, we don't feed the toddler pizza on the new couch. Understood?"

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[TammyS]

 

They insisted, "Your kids will talk to us about things that they won't talk to you about. That's why we're here."

My dh asked directly, "Did you put that idea in their heads? Did you tell them, 'We know that you're not comfortable talking to your parents. You can talk to us about things that you don't want to talk to your parents about.'?"

They answered proudly, "Yes, that's what we tell them."

Dh responded, "That's the most ridiculous, divisive thing I've ever heard. Why would you intentionally try to drive a wedge between my kids and me? Do you really think you are better equipped to offer them advice and guidance than their mother and their father?"

 

 

 

Yes, THIS!! It is crazy-making!! If these young people (who, frankly, need an "almost adults" group of their own!) actually had wisdom to impart they would tell the kids that while it might sometimes FEEL like they can't talk to their parents, they really can, their parents really are there for them, as evidenced by the very fact that they brought them to a youth group!! Maybe they would offer to individually help them work out what it was they wanted to tell their parents or something....be a HELP to the most important relationship these kids have in their lives, not a wedge!!

 

Thank you for understanding this!

[elegantlion]

It sounds "what won't work" is for families/parents to be present and therefore somewhat observing the activities. The youth pastor is uncomfortable with parents knowing what he's doing.that's disurbing. I don't have a problem with youth meeting behind closed doors that are unlocked. The problem I have is he's trying create secrecy.

 

I think you need to meet with all the youth group parents and church leadership.

 

:iagree:

[jen3kids]

They insisted, "Your kids will talk to us about things that they won't talk to you about. That's why we're here."

My dh asked directly, "Did you put that idea in their heads? Did you tell them, 'We know that you're not comfortable talking to your parents. You can talk to us about things that you don't want to talk to your parents about.'?"

They answered proudly, "Yes, that's what we tell them."

Dh responded, "That's the most ridiculous, divisive thing I've ever heard. Why would you intentionally try to drive a wedge between my kids and me? Do you really think you are better equipped to offer them advice and guidance than their mother and their father?"

 

 

We interviewed a new youth leader (the 3rd in 5 years - ugh!) He came across as a very thorough, very devout young man. He's 28, married with 3 kids. Yes, he's young-ish, but seems very good. He's not all about playing games, like the first one, and appears more confident and in control that the most previous one.

 

However, he did make a point of telling us that our kids may tell him more than they tell their parents. I kind of get this, but I hope he did not 'tell' the kids that. I mean, it's one thing for a kid to confide in another adult, but it's different if they are told to confide in him because they cannot talk to their parent. Maybe it is just semantics, but I believe there is a difference.

[mandymom]

I think from a spiritual perspective, it's wrong. Over and over in scripture, we are told that the older people in the church are supposed to teach the younger people in the church.

 

Now, I'm not against youth group at all. My oldest 4 are very involved in our church's youth group, but parental and FAMILY (younger children) participation is HIGHLY valued. I agree that "youth" need to be taught differently than children as they are very near adulthood, however that training needs to come from adults (more than just one), parents need to be involved in the training (or at least be privy to it) so they can carry it on beyond the church building, and the youth need to be trained to teach those younger than them to continue on the model. The idea of withdrawing them on purpose from the rest of the church body seem counterproductive to the purpose of the Church as God designed it.

Edited October 11, 2012 by mandymom

[Dobela]

Honestly, I would leave that church. No way would I allow my kids to participate in anythign that wasn't transparent. I agree that sometimes the ages should be separated, but never behind locked doors. Too many things could be wrong about this than I want to even list. I get it that Bible Quiz is fun and all that, but it doesn't make all the rest acceptable or right.

[K&Rs Mom]

It sounds "what won't work" is for families/parents to be present and therefore somewhat observing the activities. The youth pastor is uncomfortable with parents knowing what he's doing.that's disurbing. I don't have a problem with youth meeting behind closed doors that are unlocked. The problem I have is he's trying create secrecy.

 

I think you need to meet with all the youth group parents and church leadership.

 

:iagree: Nothing good can come of secrecy, and the parents presenting a united front might be enough to change it back to the previous policy where they were separate but unlocked.

[Remudamom]

You are being desensitized.

[fairfarmhand]

Ummm.... NO!!! I love the idea of youth group, but I clearly remember all the "sinning" I did when youth group was closed from parents. IMO, and my oldest is only 12, a good youth pastor should welcome/beg for/encourage parent participation. This guy wants to lock the parents out? Oh he!! no! Silly me thought youth group was intended to encourage young teens in their life with Christ. And a pastor making a unilateral decision like that? Would not fly in this house (not that our Pastor would ever do such a thing). If I were you, I too would be livid.

:iagree:

It sounds "what won't work" is for families/parents to be present and therefore somewhat observing the activities. The youth pastor is uncomfortable with parents knowing what he's doing.that's disurbing. I don't have a problem with youth meeting behind closed doors that are unlocked. The problem I have is he's trying create secrecy.

 

I think you need to meet with all the youth group parents and church leadership.

:iagree:

Speak up.

Don't be meek about your thoughts. Be confident.

 

The church can be one of the more backward institutions when it comes to dividing people. No more thought goes into it than goes into separating the items in your silverware drawer. Forks into one bin. Big spoons and little spoons into separate bins. Knives into the fourth. And then the rest of junk gets piled into the big compartment in the front because that's where it seems to fit. Not very eternity-minded.

 

The women's group. The men's group. Pre-school. Kids club. Teens. Singles. You name it - the church has a group for it. They sort by size and shape with no real thought about what makes people people.

 

Really. That's about all the thought that goes into this. That's why you can't get answers. There are no intelligent answers.

 

The church is way behind on this one. Speak up. Don't be ashamed to point to the elephant in the room. You're not behind the times. You're trying to bring the church forward.

 

And remember that youth pastors don't usually have the kind of experience needed to do their job well. You don't need to be young to connect with kids. You need to be wise to connect with kids. Dh and I went to a "parent's meeting" at a church we were considering. The youth pastor (and his wife) were fresh out of college.

 

They insisted, "Your kids will talk to us about things that they won't talk to you about. That's why we're here."

My dh asked directly, "Did you put that idea in their heads? Did you tell them, 'We know that you're not comfortable talking to your parents. You can talk to us about things that you don't want to talk to your parents about.'?"

They answered proudly, "Yes, that's what we tell them."

Dh responded, "That's the most ridiculous, divisive thing I've ever heard. Why would you intentionally try to drive a wedge between my kids and me? Do you really think you are better equipped to offer them advice and guidance than their mother and their father?"

 

We left.

You just can't help the ignorant.

Don't be afraid to be wise. Speak up. Follow your gut. The youth pastor isn't going to be there to solve the problems he creates. You're going to have to clean up the mess.

 

Treat folly like folly. You have enough work to do without allowing someone to create work for you. Think of it this way: would you let a toddler eat pizza on your new couch just because the teen babysitter said it was a good idea? No! Rather than worry about the teen's feelings, you would pick up the toddler and put them in the kitchen. Then you would turn to the teen and say, "We don't eat pizza in the living room." End of discussion.

 

It's really no more complicated than that.

 

Speak up. I doubt they have really put too much thought into this. If they have, they will have wise answers at the ready. If not, understand that you as a supporting member of the church are paying the bills. It's time to instruct the folks whom you are paying about what it is that you are looking for. "Oh for heaven's sake, we don't feed the toddler pizza on the new couch. Understood?"

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

 

one reason that so many young people leave the church after high school is that they have no clue how to operate once they have graduated from youth group. They've been separated out for years and haven't been taught how to be a part of the larger "body" where you serve as well as being served. Your youth pastor wants to toss the other youth out and will probably later complain that "I just can't do the parents' jobs for them" when the teens are not measuring up. He will be right in that, but then again...he asked for it.

 

I think from a spiritual perspective, it's wrong. Over and over in scripture, we are told that the older people in the church are supposed to teach the younger people in the church.

 

Now, I'm not against youth group at all. My oldest 4 are very involved in our church's youth group, but parental and FAMILY (younger children) participation is HIGHLY valued. I agree that "youth" need to be taught differently than children as they are very near adulthood, however that training needs to come from adults (more than just one), parents need to be involved in the training (or at least be privy to it) so they can carry it on beyond the church building, and the youth need to be trained to teach those younger than them to continue on the model. The idea of withdrawing them on purpose from the rest of the church body seem counterproductive to the purpose of the Church as God deigned it.

 

more and more I am finding how unusual my church and my kids' youth pastor is. They'd never dream of doing such a thing. Every service, there's 6-8 miscellaneous adults of ALL generations in the youth room and before and after services the kids (big and small) and parents are encouraged to hang out in the youth room.

[brehon]

As another poster so elegantly stated, "Oh, Hell No!!!"

 

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. It's wrong on so many levels that there ain't any right here. Because of this my kids would no longer participate in youth group or Bible quiz. The leadership of your church has shown, is showing, and will more than likely show again & again that they do NOT have the best interests of you and your family in mind.

 

In this day and age, especially, to lock doors and prevent families from seeing their kids and the kids' activities is just...well, stupid, really. And the leadership will be (I imagine) breaking just about every fire & safety code on the books by doing locking doors. Does this youth group practice 2-deep leadership? If so, who is the second adult? If not, why not?

 

As I said neither dh nor I would be comfortable with our kids going to this youth group/bible game. By allowing them to do so we would, in effect, be condoning the "leadership" (and the quotes apply to everyone who agreed with these asinine decisions -and I think the plural here is important!) even after being lied to by the head pastor and condoning placing our children in these situations.

 

Oh, Hell No!!

[lisamarie]

Out of curiosity, how did the pastor present this to you? Just to you or to all the parents? All together or individually? Your description makes it sound like he only told you and not everyone.

 

Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding but it sounds from your description that a throughway door (between two sections of the building) is being locked while people are in the building. All other issues aside, isn't this a safety/fire egress issue? I'm probably reading it wrong but I get the visual image of the youth pastor locking kids in to keep everyone away.:001_huh:

:grouphug: I hope you can all arrive at a solution.

 

It sounds "what won't work" is for families/parents to be present and therefore somewhat observing the activities. The youth pastor is uncomfortable with parents knowing what he's doing.that's disurbing. I don't have a problem with youth meeting behind closed doors that are unlocked. The problem I have is he's trying create secrecy.

 

I think you need to meet with all the youth group parents and church leadership.

 

:iagree: That's my take. He is either doing something that the parents won't like or he doesn't want his practices being called into question. No, I would not allow my child to participate if it was a closed off thing like this. Even if I knew all of the kids, fully trusted the leaders, etc. Open door policy is the only policy I would be okay with.

 

Echo rounding up all the unhappy parents and calling a meeting to discuss.

[Outinthegarden]

"They insisted, "Your kids will talk to us about things that they won't talk to you about. That's why we're here."

My dh asked directly, "Did you put that idea in their heads? Did you tell them, 'We know that you're not comfortable talking to your parents. You can talk to us about things that you don't want to talk to your parents about.'?"

They answered proudly, "Yes, that's what we tell them."

Dh responded, "That's the most ridiculous, divisive thing I've ever heard. Why would you intentionally try to drive a wedge between my kids and me? Do you really think you are better equipped to offer them advice and guidance than their mother and their father?" "

 

:iagree: First, I would be VERY worried that the Pastor just lied to me. That in itself would send my dh and our children out of the building like it was on FIRE! If it is no big deal to misrepresent (trying to be kind) about a meeting that had to do with children - wow, what else may he misrepresent without a passing thought.

 

Second, we attend a church that has all the "groups" and the youth Pastor is the Pastor's son. And while we absolutely love our Pastor, his son sounds just like this. Outings that ONLY the teens can go to - they PREFER that the parents not "tag" along. The chaperon's that do go are all young (read - you can do that, we won't tell your parents or your parents are just old-fashioned, they just don't understand. :glare:) - encourages and pushes the boyfriend/girlfriend mentality from the pulpit in Jr. Church - it is mind boggling to us that such would go on in our church and our Pastor not say a word. (We are not against dating, per say, just not at 11, 12, 13, you get the idea :001_smile:) He has been there for about seven years now and you would be amazed at some of the not so good stories we hear from friends who let their children participate. Changes in attitudes towards parents, siblings, and anyone who is not a "teen" changes in appearance. (Including a young lady becoming pregnant - of course it was all her fault, she should have said no) There is way more to this than just locking the door to keep the parents out so they can gel.

 

I'm sure you've guessed - our children don't participate. I agree with the OP about the youth group mentality, and would encourage you and your dh to pray about this as it could have serious life long ramifications for your children. If you would like more information on how we dealt with this feel free to PM me.

 

I feel for you and I'm sure that this is most likely the beginning of a not so great experience.:grouphug:

[Remudamom]

1) This is why I have a high contempt for "youth" programs, 2) run for you children's lives.

[sassenach]

The new policy wouldn't bother me nearly as much as your pastor LYING to you about the parent meeting. I can actually think of some good reasons why they might want to keep it as just the older kids. However, I'm just dumbfounded that your pastor lied to you twice before telling the truth.

[Desert Rat]

Um. I was raised by a youth pastor. No locked doors. Not ever. Unless it was a sleepover situation. How many adults are in the locked room with the kids? I asked this because this situation sends up lots of red flags. Locked doors and "cool" video games they shouldn't be playing?

I'm not usually a reactionary type person, but the youth pastor before my dad was a bad, bad man. My dad had lots of fixing to do. Those kids needed lots of counseling. It was bad.

If it were my kid, no. No locked doors.

[SpecialClassical]

You are being desensitized.

 

:iagree: Our former pastor did this in order to be in control and "build his own kingdom". He wanted control, but wanted to appear as an understanding, reasonable guy. So he lied and manipulated. The desensitization was intentional from the beginning of his ministry and he used sermons to do it. He also believed children needed to develop relationships with adults outside their parents, so he started a youth group for 4th and 5th grade students.

 

I suggest you report the pastor's dishonesty and your concern for the culture of youth seclusion being created. And I think it is unlikely that will change, so I suggest you look into finding a different Quiz group now so you are ready if you need to switch. I'm sorry you are dealing with this.

 

The church is a place for God's people to worship, grow, and build His kingdom, not our egos. Blessings to you and your family.

[Janice in NJ]

 

However, he did make a point of telling us that our kids may tell him more than they tell their parents. I kind of get this, but I hope he did not 'tell' the kids that. I mean, it's one thing for a kid to confide in another adult, but it's different if they are told to confide in him because they cannot talk to their parent. Maybe it is just semantics, but I believe there is a difference.

 

Hi Jen,

 

I think the next question to ask is, "So how do you handle that? What happens next when a child confides in you?"

 

His answers will tell you plenty about how he views his role and how he views yours.

 

Peace,

Janice

[my2boysteacher]

As another poster so elegantly stated, "Oh, Hell No!!!"

 

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. It's wrong on so many levels that there ain't any right here. Because of this my kids would no longer participate in youth group or Bible quiz. The leadership of your church has shown, is showing, and will more than likely show again & again that they do NOT have the best interests of you and your family in mind.

 

In this day and age, especially, to lock doors and prevent families from seeing their kids and the kids' activities is just...well, stupid, really. And the leadership will be (I imagine) breaking just about every fire & safety code on the books by doing locking doors. Does this youth group practice 2-deep leadership? If so, who is the second adult? If not, why not?

 

As I said neither dh nor I would be comfortable with our kids going to this youth group/bible game. By allowing them to do so we would, in effect, be condoning the "leadership" (and the quotes apply to everyone who agreed with these asinine decisions -and I think the plural here is important!) even after being lied to by the head pastor and condoning placing our children in these situations.

 

Oh, Hell No!!

 

:iagree: we would be looking for another church-one that recognizes the importance of the family unit. My kids are just approaching Jr. High, (confirmation and youth group) and we have already had one meeting with the pastor about concerns over the Sunday School curriculum. The Pastor worked with us, and got us a copy of the curriculum so we could decide if we liked it. Everyone knows my husband or I will hang around whenever the boys are in

in a class at church, and no one has a problem with it. If we were ever prevented from seeing what was going on in one of their classes (especially by means of a LOCKED door) we would run the opposite direction and never look back.

[Matryoshka]

I love Bible Quiz, I love the kids in it and the fellowship my dc have with their friends. But this...what do we do? How do we work with this?? In order for my dc to participate in Quiz they are required to attend youth group (although we have been quietly told that we could miss quite a few and not get in trouble). I don't want to remove them from Quiz and there is no other Quiz group in the area, plus their closest friends are in this group.

 

I was just wondering how the parents of your kids' closest friends view this. If I were them, I wouldn't want to stay any more than you. If you all feel like this is a leaving issue, either you could confront the pastor as a group, or you could form a new group elsewhere (maybe there's a church without a Quiz group that could start one if it got an influx of kids who already knew about it?)

[Denisemomof4]

I have read none f the responses but IMO you really don't have a reason to be upset.

 

I used to work with the youth. I strongly believe it is good and healthy for them to be away from their younger siblings. I have been through this with my oldest ds and am going through this now with. Oldest dd. It is GOOD for them to have some space from the younger sibling. A few hours per week? I don't understand what there is to get upset about. My boys were very close. They matured at different rates and I could see how it was good for him to have a break from his brother. My dd12 NEEDS a break from her sister and I make sure she has this opportunity several times per week.

 

Also, if I were working with youth and parents and siblings were present, I would ask the pastor to change that.

 

When the homeschool group leader and I started a tween social group, I made it clear that I did not want younger siblings along. All too often the youth were in charge of watching them, they whined and complained, and it completely changed the dynamics of the group.

 

I personally think it is stupid to play violent games at a church youth group but I don't know that I'd say anything. During all my years of working in the church, homeschool group and with youth, all you ever hear is complaints and negativity. Nobody ever appreciates all the effort put into such things, and likely have no idea how time consuming it is. I am sure you can rest assured that someone has spoken up about it, though.

[Delighted3]

I have a friend who goes to an "Assembly of God" church. This sounds just like the decisions the leadership in her church have been making for the last couple of years. I have always been slightly uncomfortable with the way she describes the things that go on at her church with the youth. I would be very unhappy with a church leadership that tries to separate the youth from the family unit. It seems like the church leadership wants to have more influence over the youth than I would be comfortable with.

JMO,

Joy

[Denisemomof4]

You can't fix stupid. "Don't confuse me with facts; my mind is made up," seems to be the stance here. I would try to get things changed, nicely, along with the other parents, but this youth pastor clearly has rather poor judgement coupled with a great deal of conviction. That is a foolish combination, and other craziness will happen. It's time to instruct your kids as to what to go along with and what not to. Next is probably one of those blindfolded 'you are all going to be arrested and shot' games--it's all the rage in these kinds of groups. Very unfortunate.

 

I never heard of the blind folded game before. Lovely.:glare:

 

I agree that you need to talk with your dd to establish firm boundaries with her and the group. Also make sure the lines of communication are WIDE open. If things become questionable, time to leave the group regardless of friends. I did this. The youth leader kept grabbing his wife's rear end and that was an issue with me (do teens really need to see that?) and the day the leader had all the kids at his house and showed them his guns was the last day my son went. The pastor thought all was fine. Five years later, pastor and youth group leader are still at the church. We left long ago.