s/o of Faithmanor's post. If carrying your baby could kill you....

[fairfarmhand]

I am so sad about Faith's post.

 

I could see myself doing the exact same thing and it would make my dh livid.

 

As a mother, I would have a hard time deciding to give birth to micropreemies to save my own life.

 

Would your dh be angry?

 

 

I know mine would, but....I thought about it this way. If he were the one carrying babies and had to make the decision, I know without a doubt, he would put his own life in danger to save the baby's life. But he'd be mad at me for making that same decision :glare:

 

What about your guys?

[fairfarmhand]

btw, no condemnation of my dh's feelings or of other mothers who have made this awful decision. I am just sharing how it would go down in my family.

[Parrothead]

I honestly have no idea how dh would feel in that situation.

 

I know if it were me the doctors would be waiting until my last dying breath to take the babies out.

[Zebra]

You just have no idea what you are going to do in a situation like that until it happens. It's so hard no matter how you look at it.

[mama2cntrykids]

I can't say for sure what I would do in that situation. It's hard to know unless you're IN it. BUT...I think that I would be doing exactly what the poor dear mother in this case is doing. I guess my thinking is, I couldn't live with my self if I opted to give birth SO early and something happened to the baby (babies).

 

My dh would probably be very emotional and upset about my decision, but, it would be MY decision. Of course I would take into consideration his feelings. NOt sure that would change my decision, however.

[Crimson Wife]

I didn't see the original post, but I would try to carry a baby long enough until it has the potential to survive (so around 25 weeks). At that point, it is in God's hands and I would allow the doctors to deliver him/her as a micropreemie. No way would I have an abortion even to save my own life, but delivering past the point of viability I see as different. I have responsibilities to my other children. My responsibility to the unborn baby is very important as well, but once he/she could survive outside the womb, I think it is morally permissible to deliver early in order to save my life.

[Juniper]

Honestly it would depend a couple of things. One would be how old my kids at home are. The other issue is trickier to explain. Basically, if the hospital was intervening in such a way that the babies were being kept alive, when under natural circumstances I would have miscarried, I would allow nature to take its course. Please understand that if my life and the life of my kids mother was not at risk, I would do everything in my power to save them.

 

I know that my dh would feel the same.

[Dmmetler]

My son was born at 22 weeks when I developed severe HELLP syndrome, and didn't survive. I still, 10 years later, struggle with guilt that he died to save my life-because that's so opposed to what parents are supposed to do for their child.

 

The single thing that helped most was that, at one of my follow ups for BP, I tearfully asked my perinatologist if the baby could have been saved if I'd just hung on longer-and he pulled my file and showed me where the hospital had put in a request for a court order specifically in case I tried to do exactly that or to leave AMA-because my life was SO unstable at that point that it was not possible for me to hang on long enough to give the baby a chance to survive. It was literally either deliver now, and have a chance of saving my life, or lose both of us. Knowing that it truly wasn't my choice-it was the choice of people outside the situation, who had judged it from a medical standpoint (in a Baptist hospital, so preserving the life of that baby is something that they considered paramount) made a big difference. It's not POSSIBLE, in the case of class A, 2nd trimester HELLP syndrome to simply hang on longer, because the only effective treatment is to deliver the baby. Even waiting a day to do steroids and the like to mature lungs is a serious risk in such cases. Fortunately, HELLP usually strikes slower, and in the 3rd trimester, so having a rapid, severe onset so early in pregnancy is fortunately about a 1-5 million chance. My son and I just happened to be the unlucky one.

 

I read a lot of books on pregnancy and infant loss, and in those written for counselors and psychologists, it was repeatedly stated that this is one of the hardest situations for a mother to manage BECAUSE it's so hard to deal with that guilt, and that diffusing that guilt, over time, is necessary to allow the mother to grieve the loss and move on. The fact that society is constantly reinforcing the guilt, and many mothers face direct comments from family members and friends who do so, make it even harder. And I do not go to church when I know abortion is likely to be a topic, because emotionally, I can't handle it. Threads like this are tough-but I think the story needs to be out there that it is real, that it does happen, and that, no, it's NOT always possible to sit back and say "I'd save the baby"-because sometimes, you can't.

Edited June 22, 2012 by dmmetler

[Zebra]

My son was born at 22 weeks when I developed severe HELLP syndrome, and didn't survive. I still, 10 years later, struggle with guilt that he died to save my life-because that's so opposed to what parents are supposed to do for their child.

 

The single thing that helped most was that, at one of my follow ups for BP, I tearfully asked my perinatologist if the baby could have been saved if I'd just hung on longer-and he pulled my file and showed me where the hospital had put in a request for a court order specifically in case I tried to do exactly that or to leave AMA-because my life was SO unstable at that point that it was not possible for me to hang on long enough to give the baby a chance to survive. It was literally either deliver now, and have a chance of saving my life, or lose both of us. Knowing that it truly wasn't my choice-it was the choice of people outside the situation, who had judged it from a medical standpoint (in a Baptist hospital, so preserving the life of that baby is something that they considered paramount) made a big difference.

 

I read a lot of books on pregnancy and infant loss, and in those written for counselors and psychologists, it was repeatedly stated that this is one of the hardest situations for a mother to manage BECAUSE it's so hard to deal with that guilt, and that diffusing that guilt, over time, is necessary to allow the mother to grieve the loss and move on. The fact that society is constantly reinforcing the guilt, and many mothers face direct comments from family members and friends who do so, make it even harder.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[garddwr]

I am so sad about Faith's post.

 

I could see myself doing the exact same thing and it would make my dh livid.

 

As a mother, I would have a hard time deciding to give birth to micropreemies to save my own life.

 

Would your dh be angry?

 

 

I know mine would, but....I thought about it this way. If he were the one carrying babies and had to make the decision, I know without a doubt, he would put his own life in danger to save the baby's life. But he'd be mad at me for making that same decision :glare:

 

What about your guys?

 

 

I would be doing a lot of praying as I made my decision. As a mother, I would happily give my own life for any of my children--but, as a mother, I would also take my responsibility to my living children seriously. Could I justify risking my life for an unborn child with only a slight chance of survival, and leaving my other children motherless? I think there is no easy solution, but I believe in a God who hears and answers prayers and can direct us when the path is not clear to us.

I know in the case cited this is a first pregnancy so there are no other children to consider, only the husband...under those circumstances I'm pretty sure I would do just what this mother is doing.

 

Life can be so, so hard to navigate sometimes.

[Haiku]

I would not die for my unborn baby/babies. Not at this point in my life. I have three children who need me, two of which have already lost their original mothers, one to death and one to abandonment. Putting my kids in the situation of having a sibling who lived at my expense would not be good. Putting my husband in the position of raising three kids alone would not be good. Putting my children in the position of losing their mother (again) would be very, very bad. I have a responsibility to those who are already here and aware.

 

My religious beliefs would allow me to make this very difficult decision. And I am pro-life, all the way around.

 

Tara

[Twilight Woods]

HE would be very upset but would understand.

 

I would not risk my life though when I already have chldren to take care of. I know this is the first chldren for the mother and I just cant imagine the emotions the both of them are going through right now.

[justLisa]

I would not endanger my life for the unborn. It saddens me to think about anyone going through this, but in no way would I risk my life.

[BakersDozen]

As a mother, I would have a hard time deciding to give birth to micropreemies to save my own life.

 

Would your dh be angry?

 

 

I don't think I could decide to give birth...no, I'm sure I couldn't make that decision. My dh would be angry but he also knows me well enough to know how I would feel and the kind of wife/mom he would be left with if he pressured me to do otherwise.

 

This is a horrible thing that my heart cannot even comprehend. I remember laying in the hospital bed willing my babies to stay in, for my body to stop laboring, for my babies' lives to be spared. I have never felt so helpless or so afraid. All that mattered was those babies and yes, I would have died if it meant they survived.

 

Off to have a good cry now.

[livetoread]

I was never in that situation thankfully, but I made sure that my midwife understood if I was, that I wanted to be saved over the baby. I felt strongly about this and reminded her of it before going into labor. I loved my babies while I was pregnant and would have been devastated by the choice, but I still would have made it. This was even more true when I was pregnant with my second and already had a child dependent on me. Maybe I'm different than many pregnant women but as much as I was bonded to my babies in utero, I still wanted to live.

 

I would willingly give my life for my children now, but at delivery or earlier, no.

Edited June 22, 2012 by livetoread

[UnsinkableKristen]

My son was born at 22 weeks when I developed severe HELLP syndrome, and didn't survive. I still, 10 years later, struggle with guilt that he died to save my life-because that's so opposed to what parents are supposed to do for their child.

 

The single thing that helped most was that, at one of my follow ups for BP, I tearfully asked my perinatologist if the baby could have been saved if I'd just hung on longer-and he pulled my file and showed me where the hospital had put in a request for a court order specifically in case I tried to do exactly that or to leave AMA-because my life was SO unstable at that point that it was not possible for me to hang on long enough to give the baby a chance to survive. It was literally either deliver now, and have a chance of saving my life, or lose both of us. Knowing that it truly wasn't my choice-it was the choice of people outside the situation, who had judged it from a medical standpoint (in a Baptist hospital, so preserving the life of that baby is something that they considered paramount) made a big difference. It's not POSSIBLE, in the case of class A, 2nd trimester HELLP syndrome to simply hang on longer, because the only effective treatment is to deliver the baby. Even waiting a day to do steroids and the like to mature lungs is a serious risk in such cases. Fortunately, HELLP usually strikes slower, and in the 3rd trimester, so having a rapid, severe onset so early in pregnancy is fortunately about a 1-5 million chance. My son and I just happened to be the unlucky one.

 

I read a lot of books on pregnancy and infant loss, and in those written for counselors and psychologists, it was repeatedly stated that this is one of the hardest situations for a mother to manage BECAUSE it's so hard to deal with that guilt, and that diffusing that guilt, over time, is necessary to allow the mother to grieve the loss and move on. The fact that society is constantly reinforcing the guilt, and many mothers face direct comments from family members and friends who do so, make it even harder. And I do not go to church when I know abortion is likely to be a topic, because emotionally, I can't handle it. Threads like this are tough-but I think the story needs to be out there that it is real, that it does happen, and that, no, it's NOT always possible to sit back and say "I'd save the baby"-because sometimes, you can't.

 

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

I don't think I could decide to give birth...no, I'm sure I couldn't make that decision. My dh would be angry but he also knows me well enough to know how I would feel and the kind of wife/mom he would be left with if he pressured me to do otherwise.

 

This is a horrible thing that my heart cannot even comprehend. I remember laying in the hospital bed willing my babies to stay in, for my body to stop laboring, for my babies' lives to be spared. I have never felt so helpless or so afraid. All that mattered was those babies and yes, I would have died if it meant they survived.

 

Off to have a good cry now.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

[EducationX2]

I haven't read the original post, but, I would be unable to place my own life in danger in order to save an unborn baby. Don't misunderstand me, I would be very, very upset, and it wouldn't be an easy decision to make. But DD is already here, and she needs me, and she takes precedence over anything. I'm all she has. She's already lost her grandfather, who was more like her father. My mother isn't in good health. Her biological father isn't in her life. We don't have a large family. And DD has some emotional special concerns. It scares me now that something might happen to me and leave her behind.... I could never do something that might leave her alone.

[MinivanMom]

My son was born at 22 weeks when I developed severe HELLP syndrome, and didn't survive. I still, 10 years later, struggle with guilt that he died to save my life-because that's so opposed to what parents are supposed to do for their child.

 

The single thing that helped most was that, at one of my follow ups for BP, I tearfully asked my perinatologist if the baby could have been saved if I'd just hung on longer-and he pulled my file and showed me where the hospital had put in a request for a court order specifically in case I tried to do exactly that or to leave AMA-because my life was SO unstable at that point that it was not possible for me to hang on long enough to give the baby a chance to survive. It was literally either deliver now, and have a chance of saving my life, or lose both of us. Knowing that it truly wasn't my choice-it was the choice of people outside the situation, who had judged it from a medical standpoint (in a Baptist hospital, so preserving the life of that baby is something that they considered paramount) made a big difference. It's not POSSIBLE, in the case of class A, 2nd trimester HELLP syndrome to simply hang on longer, because the only effective treatment is to deliver the baby. Even waiting a day to do steroids and the like to mature lungs is a serious risk in such cases. Fortunately, HELLP usually strikes slower, and in the 3rd trimester, so having a rapid, severe onset so early in pregnancy is fortunately about a 1-5 million chance. My son and I just happened to be the unlucky one.

 

I read a lot of books on pregnancy and infant loss, and in those written for counselors and psychologists, it was repeatedly stated that this is one of the hardest situations for a mother to manage BECAUSE it's so hard to deal with that guilt, and that diffusing that guilt, over time, is necessary to allow the mother to grieve the loss and move on. The fact that society is constantly reinforcing the guilt, and many mothers face direct comments from family members and friends who do so, make it even harder. And I do not go to church when I know abortion is likely to be a topic, because emotionally, I can't handle it. Threads like this are tough-but I think the story needs to be out there that it is real, that it does happen, and that, no, it's NOT always possible to sit back and say "I'd save the baby"-because sometimes, you can't.

 

:grouphug:

 

I have a family member who went through the same thing, but she was a few wks further than you and the babies survived. I think what people don't understand in the abstract is that it's not always a choice between mom's life and the baby's life; it's often a choice between the baby dying or both mom and baby dying. You wouldn't be dying for your baby; you would be dying with your baby.

[Paige]

It would depend on the babies' chances. Would they be likely to live and be healthy if I held on for the few days I could before dying or refused treatment for myself? Would my efforts likely be futile, leaving me and the babies dead, or perhaps me alive and babies suffering to live only briefly and at high risk for severe disabilities? I do not think I would die to keep micro preemies inside of me a few days. I probably would risk dying if it were to save babies who had a better chance of survival. I don't know what DH would think.

[Parrothead]

My son was born at 22 weeks when I developed severe HELLP syndrome, and didn't survive. I still, 10 years later, struggle with guilt that he died to save my life-because that's so opposed to what parents are supposed to do for their child.

 

The single thing that helped most was that, at one of my follow ups for BP, I tearfully asked my perinatologist if the baby could have been saved if I'd just hung on longer-and he pulled my file and showed me where the hospital had put in a request for a court order specifically in case I tried to do exactly that or to leave AMA-because my life was SO unstable at that point that it was not possible for me to hang on long enough to give the baby a chance to survive. It was literally either deliver now, and have a chance of saving my life, or lose both of us. Knowing that it truly wasn't my choice-it was the choice of people outside the situation, who had judged it from a medical standpoint (in a Baptist hospital, so preserving the life of that baby is something that they considered paramount) made a big difference. It's not POSSIBLE, in the case of class A, 2nd trimester HELLP syndrome to simply hang on longer, because the only effective treatment is to deliver the baby. Even waiting a day to do steroids and the like to mature lungs is a serious risk in such cases. Fortunately, HELLP usually strikes slower, and in the 3rd trimester, so having a rapid, severe onset so early in pregnancy is fortunately about a 1-5 million chance. My son and I just happened to be the unlucky one.

 

I read a lot of books on pregnancy and infant loss, and in those written for counselors and psychologists, it was repeatedly stated that this is one of the hardest situations for a mother to manage BECAUSE it's so hard to deal with that guilt, and that diffusing that guilt, over time, is necessary to allow the mother to grieve the loss and move on. The fact that society is constantly reinforcing the guilt, and many mothers face direct comments from family members and friends who do so, make it even harder. And I do not go to church when I know abortion is likely to be a topic, because emotionally, I can't handle it. Threads like this are tough-but I think the story needs to be out there that it is real, that it does happen, and that, no, it's NOT always possible to sit back and say "I'd save the baby"-because sometimes, you can't.

:grouphug:

[Elinor Everywhere]

 

I would willingly give my life for my children now, but at delivery or earlier, no.

 

:iagree: This is my answer as well. Although I had only one pregnancy, I already know that if I was pregnant again and had that choice, I wouldn't give up my life for an unborn child. Hard, hard to say, but it's the truth. Would I die for my kids? Absolutely, 100% yes.

[Jennay]

It's always a risk being pregnant, in a way everytime we carry a baby we are risking our life for the unborn.

That's one reason I don't want to get PG again - I have 4 and 3 of them have been c/s. The risks associated with pregnancy and birth increase with each c/s and I have these little ones to take care of.

I'm not sure what I would do in an extreme situation like Faith's friend but my gut is to say I'd do what I could to get them to viability if possible, but my primary responsibilities are already here.

[FaithManor]

I don't think I could decide to give birth...no, I'm sure I couldn't make that decision. My dh would be angry but he also knows me well enough to know how I would feel and the kind of wife/mom he would be left with if he pressured me to do otherwise.

 

This is a horrible thing that my heart cannot even comprehend. I remember laying in the hospital bed willing my babies to stay in, for my body to stop laboring, for my babies' lives to be spared. I have never felt so helpless or so afraid. All that mattered was those babies and yes, I would have died if it meant they survived.

 

Off to have a good cry now.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I am sooooo sorry!

 

This is why I relate to my dear friend's daughter so very much. If you had asked me prior to my pregnancy with ds if I would sacrifice myself, I would have given the rational response that "No, as gut-wrenching as it would be to save myself knowing the baby wouldn't make it, I have other children that must, must be thought of first." However, in the midst of the pregnancy, the hormones coursing thing your veins the way they do through second and third trimester when the biological imperative to absolutely, mother-bear, protect that child is soooooo strong, wowza, logic went out the window. Emotionally I couldn't see myself in a different light, I couldn't imagine NOT doing every possible thing to save him, couldn't imagine telling my children that I saved me over that little person, couldn't, couldn't, couldn't....it didn't make sense. Seriously, my decision didn't make sense. Sometimes I look back on it and wonder if I was medically competant to make the decision, no clotting factor, so low in potassium that the possibilty of heart damage was very real, hemoglobin count below 8 and sinking fast, transfusion reaction making future transfusions even more dangerous, ....really...maybe the docs shouldn't have even allowed it to be my decision. Certainly, dh was both heartbroken and furious at the conclusion I came to and the fact that he had no say in it when I signed those directives.

 

I think this young mom has both that pregnancy "do anything to help these babies make-it" momma-bear going on, and she doesn't have any children at home to be devastated by her loss. She measures her husband's loss against her own sense of not being able to imagine sacrificing the babies if there is any chance they could make it, and thinks he's better off raising his sons alone, than she is to live with "what if". I think that post-pregnancy hormones, it's very possible for that "what if" game to be just massive, not rooted in medical data, not rooted in logic, not rooted in statistics, or any of the things we run to when we need information to help us make logical choices. Her heart is drowing out her brain and the voices of reason around her. BTDT.

 

It's something that men can't understand because they don't physically go through it. But, my husband made me sit and listen to him, when it was all over and both ds and I were miraculously safe, to try to make me understand that I can never have any idea what he went through...the weeping on his knees beside the bed begging God to spare me and if possible, his son as well but please oh please preserve my children's mother, the endless nights of no sleep while he tried to figure out all of his contingency plans for single parenting three children and possibly the fourth if baby made it, sitting through OB appointments and literally struggling not to HATE the midwife and the OBGYN for allowing me to make that decision, the panic attack when I went into labor, finally coming to grips with what appeared to be the inevitable and steeling himself for it, only to flip flop and realize everything is okay so breathe again, being so angry with himself for getting me pregnant again (hey dude, two forms of birth control failed, I ovulated bizarrely late, and I was a willing participant), and then having a hard time bonding with the baby the first week...I'm surprised he didn't lose his mind and I can't relate to any of that.

 

And today and for the next however many days this drags on, we relive it again...me understanding her and being supportive of whatever decision she ultimately makes, and dh being devastated for his friend and understanding his friend's anger with his wife and the complete and total helplessness he feels. We are trying really, really hard today to be "friends" with each other and normally that's just not a problem for us. But, 12 years and one month to the day, post delivery of our youngest and the end of the miracle pregnancy, we seem to have a little PTSD or something to deal with.

 

That said, none of it is about us. We just have to be there for our friends and try to hold them up when they don't have the strength to do it themselves.

 

Thanks to everyone who is praying and thanks for listening too!

 

Faith

[higginszoo]

We've been faced with the potential of things turning this way, but thankfully they never did, so we were never actually faced with the decision. It did give us cause to discuss. Dh would be angry at the situation, but not at my decision if I tried to buy a few more weeks of inside growing time for the baby. It's a stinky situation to be in all around. We were before viability, and we had decided that we would fight to wait until viability before delivery, but exactly when in that process to have us go our separate ways -- we hadn't decided, and like I said, our situation never came to an actual either/or decision -- baby was early, a different complication made the delivery tricky, but he and I came through fine in the end -- they didn't even take him to NICU, which in retrospect, the well-baby nursery didn't handle him well, and he probably would have done better long-term if he had stayed in NICU at least until I was ready to go home.

[LizzyBee]

My son was born at 22 weeks when I developed severe HELLP syndrome, and didn't survive. I still, 10 years later, struggle with guilt that he died to save my life-because that's so opposed to what parents are supposed to do for their child.

 

 

:grouphug: I had HELLP with two of my pregnancies, but fortunately, it was in the third trimester with both. With my third dd, my bp was running high at about 20 wks, and I was beside myself thinking that I had HELLP and knowing dd wouldn't survive it; but I tested neg at that point although I did have it later in the pregnancy. I'm so sorry you lost your son.

[fairfarmhand]

My son was born at 22 weeks when I developed severe HELLP syndrome, and didn't survive. I still, 10 years later, struggle with guilt that he died to save my life-because that's so opposed to what parents are supposed to do for their child.

 

The single thing that helped most was that, at one of my follow ups for BP, I tearfully asked my perinatologist if the baby could have been saved if I'd just hung on longer-and he pulled my file and showed me where the hospital had put in a request for a court order specifically in case I tried to do exactly that or to leave AMA-because my life was SO unstable at that point that it was not possible for me to hang on long enough to give the baby a chance to survive. It was literally either deliver now, and have a chance of saving my life, or lose both of us. Knowing that it truly wasn't my choice-it was the choice of people outside the situation, who had judged it from a medical standpoint (in a Baptist hospital, so preserving the life of that baby is something that they considered paramount) made a big difference. It's not POSSIBLE, in the case of class A, 2nd trimester HELLP syndrome to simply hang on longer, because the only effective treatment is to deliver the baby. Even waiting a day to do steroids and the like to mature lungs is a serious risk in such cases. Fortunately, HELLP usually strikes slower, and in the 3rd trimester, so having a rapid, severe onset so early in pregnancy is fortunately about a 1-5 million chance. My son and I just happened to be the unlucky one.

 

I read a lot of books on pregnancy and infant loss, and in those written for counselors and psychologists, it was repeatedly stated that this is one of the hardest situations for a mother to manage BECAUSE it's so hard to deal with that guilt, and that diffusing that guilt, over time, is necessary to allow the mother to grieve the loss and move on. The fact that society is constantly reinforcing the guilt, and many mothers face direct comments from family members and friends who do so, make it even harder. And I do not go to church when I know abortion is likely to be a topic, because emotionally, I can't handle it. Threads like this are tough-but I think the story needs to be out there that it is real, that it does happen, and that, no, it's NOT always possible to sit back and say "I'd save the baby"-because sometimes, you can't.

 

thank you so much for this point of view. You are right that there are so many variables that this is impossible to honestly figure out before hand.

 

You've given me much to think about.

[SKL]

Since I already have two children and I'm a single mom, rationally I have to say I'd put my life first for the sake of not leaving my kids (already adopted once) orphans. But of course I might be in a completely different mindset at a time when such a thing was happening to me.

 

If it were my first child, I might very well have done as this mom is doing. I could see myself hoping against all odds that God would choose me and my babies for his next miracle.

 

Hopefully her dh can understand despite how painful it is.

[Seshet]

I terminated a pregnancy because I was not going to survive. I was pretty much at death's door & had been going down hill consistently since the beginning of the pregnancy. There was no chance of the baby surviving, because I would not live long enough for it to have a chance outside the womb. So, it was a choice of both of us die or just the baby. I already had a child at home and there was no chance of the unborn surviving. I chose to live & not leave my already living child motherless. It was the choice I had to make. My living child needed me. I could not sacrifice my life for a child that wouldn't survive, especially with my responsibilities to the child I already had.

 

If it was my first pregnancy & there was a chance of the baby (or babies) surviving, I don't know what I would do. My situation was quite clear cut for me. At time of termination, I was about 17-18 weeks. The baby had not been growing properly and was guaranteed to not survive. It is a very different thing to have even a small possibility of the child surviving. Also, having children at home is vastly different from it being your first pregnancy. So, I really can't say what I would do. It simply would not be an easy choice to make. My dh's feelings would definitely matter to me, just as I would hope my feelings would matter to him if he were making a life or death decision. I have always done everything I could to give my unborn children the best chance of being born & surviving , but I don't know that giving my life is something I could do.

[DianeW88]

I didn't see the original post, but I would try to carry a baby long enough until it has the potential to survive (so around 25 weeks). At that point, it is in God's hands and I would allow the doctors to deliver him/her as a micropreemie. No way would I have an abortion even to save my own life, but delivering past the point of viability I see as different. I have responsibilities to my other children. My responsibility to the unborn baby is very important as well, but once he/she could survive outside the womb, I think it is morally permissible to deliver early in order to save my life.

 

:iagree:I have other children who need their mother. I would allow them to deliver at 25 weeks.

[Impish]

I honestly don't know. Truly.

 

I know that I went into shock when dx'd w/an ectopic pregnancy, tried to convince Wolf to just take me home, and everything would be ok.

 

He, under the guise of, "C'mon, Honey, let's just cuddle for a bit..." climbed into the hospital bed beside me, and essentially pinned me down until they came to get me for surgery.

 

The rational part of myself says I have 4 children at home, and a husband, who need me. Not just *want* me, but *need* me. Do I have the right to value one life over all of them? Do I have the right to say, "I'm sorry, but this baby is more important to me than all of you?"

 

Reality of it is, I don't know that I could possibly make a logical decision in that situation. I pray that I never have to.

[lmrich]

I honestly don't know. Truly.

 

I know that I went into shock when dx'd w/an ectopic pregnancy, tried to convince Wolf to just take me home, and everything would be ok.

 

He, under the guise of, "C'mon, Honey, let's just cuddle for a bit..." climbed into the hospital bed beside me, and essentially pinned me down until they came to get me for surgery.

 

The rational part of myself says I have 4 children at home, and a husband, who need me. Not just *want* me, but *need* me. Do I have the right to value one life over all of them? Do I have the right to say, "I'm sorry, but this baby is more important to me than all of you?"

 

Reality of it is, I don't know that I could possibly make a logical decision in that situation. I pray that I never have to.

 

Agree 100%

[Bang!Zoom!]

I've walked this season in my life. I can only quietly offer that it's a very holy and spiritual time.

[nova147]

I have no idea how I'd respond.

 

Intellectually, I agree that my living children need me, so I would choose to live, even if that meant the baby didn't. But in the moment? Filled with emotion? Facing the burial of a child? No clue. I also have no idea how DH would react.

 

A cousin of mine had HELPP. But her case was bizarre in that delivery didn't cure her. The baby was 26 weeks and did much better than anyone expected, but her liver failed and she had to have a transplant. The doctors said she could only live two or three days without a donor liver; she lived 10. She spent 8 months in the hospital. Her son is 4 now. They are both doing well.

 

I have no idea how she made the decision. I suppose his gestational age made it easier - odds at 26 weeks are much better than 24. Still, I pray I never have to make the choice.

 

:grouphug::grouphug: to all of you who've been there.

[Mommy22alyns]

My son was born at 22 weeks when I developed severe HELLP syndrome, and didn't survive. I still, 10 years later, struggle with guilt that he died to save my life-because that's so opposed to what parents are supposed to do for their child.

 

The single thing that helped most was that, at one of my follow ups for BP, I tearfully asked my perinatologist if the baby could have been saved if I'd just hung on longer-and he pulled my file and showed me where the hospital had put in a request for a court order specifically in case I tried to do exactly that or to leave AMA-because my life was SO unstable at that point that it was not possible for me to hang on long enough to give the baby a chance to survive. It was literally either deliver now, and have a chance of saving my life, or lose both of us. Knowing that it truly wasn't my choice-it was the choice of people outside the situation, who had judged it from a medical standpoint (in a Baptist hospital, so preserving the life of that baby is something that they considered paramount) made a big difference. It's not POSSIBLE, in the case of class A, 2nd trimester HELLP syndrome to simply hang on longer, because the only effective treatment is to deliver the baby. Even waiting a day to do steroids and the like to mature lungs is a serious risk in such cases. Fortunately, HELLP usually strikes slower, and in the 3rd trimester, so having a rapid, severe onset so early in pregnancy is fortunately about a 1-5 million chance. My son and I just happened to be the unlucky one.

 

I read a lot of books on pregnancy and infant loss, and in those written for counselors and psychologists, it was repeatedly stated that this is one of the hardest situations for a mother to manage BECAUSE it's so hard to deal with that guilt, and that diffusing that guilt, over time, is necessary to allow the mother to grieve the loss and move on. The fact that society is constantly reinforcing the guilt, and many mothers face direct comments from family members and friends who do so, make it even harder. And I do not go to church when I know abortion is likely to be a topic, because emotionally, I can't handle it. Threads like this are tough-but I think the story needs to be out there that it is real, that it does happen, and that, no, it's NOT always possible to sit back and say "I'd save the baby"-because sometimes, you can't.

 

 

I'm so sorry. :grouphug:

 

I do agree that you never know until you're in that situation. It's a very hard decision and I couldn't judge anyone for their choices in that matter.

 

I had complete placenta previa with Sylvia and had a huge bleed at 32 weeks. I begged DH to call 911 and he insisted that we drive to our chosen hospital as it's the best place in the area to have a baby. They would be more equipped to deal with a preemie and we had no idea what the facilities would be like at the local hospital. It was a 45 minute drive and I was continuing to bleed. When we got to the hospital and they managed to monitor Sylvia, she was having decels into the 80s. Obviously everything turned out fine (I stayed on hospital bedrest for 4 more weeks and had a scheduled C-section at 36 weeks. Sylvia had no NICU time and I didn't have to leave her behind.). But to be perfectly honest, if we had lost Sylvia because of that extra drive, I don't know if I could have forgiven DH. :(

[Dustybug]

My DH would be upset, but not because of the decision that I made. He would agree with the decision, but would be upset at the possibility of losing me.

 

I believe I would make the same decision this young mother has. I don't think I could bear living with myself if I didn't. Yes, I know that I can never know for sure what I would do unless I was in that situation, but for us, once we are pregnant, that child is the same as our other children. We believe he/she is one of our "living children." If I would die to protect the three that have been born, then I'd die to protect the one who was still in my womb.

 

My SIL was told very early in her second pregnancy that her son would likely not survive until delivery, that it was a serious risk to her life to carry him, and that on the slight chance he did make it to term, he likely would not live very long. She refused to terminate even with tremedous pressure from her physicians and went through a lot of hard times. Her son Connor was born and lived for only a few short hours. It was hard for her to watch him die, but I believe that God had a purpose for his life even though it was so short. She has never regretted her decision.

 

I do not judge anyone else who has made a different decision. It is a very personal choice and it breaks my heart every time I hear of a situation like this. :(

[ktgrok]

I don't know what I'd do....if I die the babies would have to be born anyway, so I don't know that it would make sense to try to keep them in. Also, if I already had other kids they would have to be my priority....they need me as their mom and leaving them and two new twins with special needs motherless....I couldn't do that to my husband.

[ktgrok]

Also, a dear friend died recently, leaving her 2 year old and her husband. Watching them...I couldn't do that to my husband. I just couldn't. I'd choose myself over the babies.

[Murphy101]

I can't seem to find the original post?

 

Me either.

 

For me, it isn't about unborn vs born children. I simply don't share that perspective. Once I'm pregnant, that's my baby. Just as much my baby as the 1 year old toddling about on the outside. Location, size - these just don't seem to affect my decision. That's my baby. I don't think I would make some kind of Sophie's choice over any of them if myself were an option to chose instead.

 

I think my dh would be justly terrified and frustrated and heartbroken. And it would not surprise me to see that expressed as anger.

 

I think I would spend a lot of time crying and praying. :(

[Walking-Iris]

I think it is devastating to lose a loved one---even one not born yet. I have friends who have miscarried who grieve, friends who have lost babies--premature and older infants. It's heartbreaking to lose a baby.

 

I think that I would likely do all that I could do medically and if there were a really good chance that a baby could be born premature and I would be in reasonable recovery then I'd try. I would also weigh that decision on *how* premature---one would have to decide "are we ready to face the potentially long long time we would have a micro preemie and be able to face the possibility that the baby may die anyway?"

 

It would definitely take a lot of inner strength either way and I don't envy anyone in that position. If however, it was a pretty sure thing that my life was in real danger regardless of anything they could do, I wouldn't sacrifice myself and die with the very real possibility that the preemie may die as well. I wouldn't want to cause my family that sort of grief---there will be grief if the pregnancy needs to be terminated to save the mother...but that grief won't be as bad (still bad though) as the grief to my family from losing a mom/wife/dd etc and then possibly losing a baby as well. I'm not terribly sure it would be even fair to leave a dh and children and extended family with that kind of grief as well as a baby to take care of and a baby growing up without it's mother.

 

I'm not really even terribly sure, from a legal standpoint, how much a woman *would* be able to place herself in a life threatening danger to save a baby?

[Trez]

Ugh...reading these replies brings back some very awful feelings for me. Let me say that I was always brought up to believe that terminating a pregnancy was wrong. Unfortunately, I ran into a situation with my 4th where due to the development of the heart, the baby would not survive and *if* anything temporary could be done, would be cronically ill. The manner of death for the child would not be easy/painless. I had another toddler at home about 1.5 years, a 3.5 year old and a 7.5 year old. They knew about the pregnancy. We essentially were given one hellish weekend to decide what to do. We made the decision to end the pregnancy due to the stress/depression/etc that it would cause to our family and in order to avoid suffering for the yet to be born baby. (I know everyone doesn't agree with this but please don't comment on whether this is true or not...it was our feeling). Our kids know that the baby died of a broken heart....I'm not sure how much they remember about this.

 

Needless to say...I agree with those who say that it is a personal decision made at the time based upon family circumstances. It still makes me cry to even think about this time in my life and we revisit the decision we made quite often. It is by no means an easy one and sometimes we can never know if it was the *right* one. Either way...we live with the decision we made.

 

I will never be judgemental of anyone who has to go through this agonizing decision.:crying:

[Veritaserum]

Dh would want me to live to raise our other children and be with him.

[*Lulu*]

:grouphug:

 

I have a family member who went through the same thing, but she was a few wks further than you and the babies survived. I think what people don't understand in the abstract is that it's not always a choice between mom's life and the baby's life; it's often a choice between the baby dying or both mom and baby dying. You wouldn't be dying for your baby; you would be dying with your baby.

 

:iagree: The older I get the more I am learning that so many of the things I thought I would do, so many of the decisions I believed to be totally black and white, are in reality complicated, grey-shaded and filled with opportunities for me to realize the niaveite my much younger self.

[Jennifer in MI]

Dh would want me to live to raise our other children and be with him.

 

:iagree:

[gardenmom5]

I haven't seen faithe's original post. My last pregnancy was physically very difficult and I was hospitalized at one point. due to my age I had to waive genetic testing. Fom what I have read, I would choose to carry. My husband would support that choice. We would do everything we could to make it work, and pray very hard.

[Kissy]

I am in a different situation. My oldest son is my dh stepson and if something happened to me he would have to go live with a very irresponsible bio-dad. I don't think he would be taken care of and he would want to go be with him. So for me I would have to make the choice to make sure I live for him. I grew up without a mother and I can't tell you how bad it hurt me. My mother couldn't help it she died in a wreck when I was 6 but if she had made the choice to risk her life instead of live for me I would be so devastated. When she died I was passed around my family like a gravy bowl and eventually lived with a neglectful emotionally abusive dad. If she would have taken the risk to leave me that way I would be angry. So for me I would have to make sure I am here for my oldest and I want to be here for my little ones too. It is a hard choice and I hope I never have to make it. Either way I am sure it hurts beyond measure.

 

I think dh would understand my decision and would be ok. We talked about it when I became pregnant should anything arise.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:iagree:I have other children who need their mother. I would allow them to deliver at 25 weeks.

 

Yes but sadly there have been cases of women pregnant at 14 weeks or so and the mother had emergency hypertension which was uncontrollable and very likely fatal as long as she remained pregnant. Obviously, a 14 week old cannot survive and I think it would be tragic to let both mother and baby die. Obviously, I believe everything should be done to save both the mother and child but that is not always feasible:( I know that if it were me, I would not sacrifice my life in such a hopeless situation.

Edited June 23, 2012 by priscilla

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Dh would want me to live to raise our other children and be with him.

 

:iagree: A woman's life is important too.

[EKS]

I would have an abortion to save my own life. If delivering a micorpreemie is what will happen if I die, it, frankly, doesn't make sense to lose two lives.

 

Also, I understand that the circumstances of the woman in question are different in that she doesn't have other children, but as a mother of two children, I can't see sacrificing my life, the life of their *only* mother, to bear a child who very likely won't survive.

 

My husband would support me in this.

[Crimson Wife]

I'm not really even terribly sure, from a legal standpoint, how much a woman *would* be able to place herself in a life threatening danger to save a baby?

 

No one can force a woman to have an abortion in this country, even if it would be done with the intention of saving her life. And I am very thankful that it is so.

 

With a baby who is past viability, the court could probably step in to force delivery if there is a high probability that continuing the pregnancy would threaten the baby's survival (e.g. if the mom dies and the mom's death causes the baby to not survive).

[BMW]

My sil was in this situation... I cried a lot when her twins were aborted to save her life. She died several months later from diabetes problems. I often wondered what would have happened if they had kept her going as long as possible to give the babies a chance, then my brother would have had his children... as it was he lost them all.

 

I tried to deny a blood transfer in the hospital when my youngest was being born... it ended up saving my life. I was glad that the staff kept pressuring me to take blood. I didn't like it, but it was worth it to be the kids mom and be alive.

 

It's so sad, indeed.