Isn't this a double standard?? (cc)

[hsmom23]

I don't wanna start arguments and I am gonna add a poll. I am a conservative Christian and I expect pure thoughts and loyalty from my husband. Not perfection but that's the goal. I see people on here who I Think hold husbands to the same standards, but then I see some of these women openly commenting on kilt pictures and such. Is it a double standard in Christian households that women expect husbands to have eyes only for us but don't hold themselves to the same? Is it common? Is this expected from husbands because it's a known male problem but as wives it's not? I really am just curious what people of Christian conservative faiths think about this??

[Ottakee]

I see the same thing in that many women don't want their husbands looking at p&rn but then think there is nothing wrong with reading many very explicit books.

[kroe1]

Yep, it's a double standard.

 

:)

[Mama Geek]

I think there are several you agree with you, but I also know there are lots of people on the board who aren't conservative Christians or Christians at all for that matter.

[hsmom23]

I think there are several you agree with you, but I also know there are lots of people on the board who aren't conservative Christians or Christians at all for that matter.

 

This is why I wrote the post to that specific group that do, please just don't respond if you aren't conservative Christian. I wasn't trying to cause issues, just am curious what people think truly.

Edited May 10, 2012 by hsmom23
To add info

[melissad2]

I'm Christian but I think it is unrealistic to think that men or women are never going to admire the opposite sex. I'm from the "look don't touch" category :)

[jillian]

I'm Christian but I think it is unrealistic to think that men or women are never going to admire the opposite sex. I'm from the "look don't touch" category :)

This. I voted the "neither" option fwiw.

[Jennifer in MI]

I'm Christian but I think it is unrealistic to think that men or women are never going to admire the opposite sex. I'm from the "look don't touch" category :)

 

:iagree:

 

Oh - and I'm just as likely to point out a beautiful woman as I am a beautiful man.

[ThisIsTheDay]

I see people on here who I Think hold husbands to the same standards, but then I see some of these women openly commenting on kilt pictures and such. ?

 

I think your question is the same as asking a bunch of apples if they think oranges should act like apples too. It's okay for the oranges to be oranges, and the apples shouldn't speak for them.

 

And possibly the apples don't know that all of the apples are really apples.;)

 

I didn't answer the poll because based on your comments in the first post, it is too vague. Perhaps your interpretation of the "open" comments is not as the poster intended, or perhaps your definition of "pure thoughts" differs from theirs.

 

(Conservative Christian here.)

[Farrar]

I think there are different standards and expectations about this in society in general and sometimes that's unfair. And sometimes there are double standards in individual relationships, which can also be unfair. However, for myself (and my dh), I think it's fine for everyone to appreciate beauty.

[Sneezyone]

I think your question is the same as asking a bunch of apples if they think oranges should act like apples too. It's okay for the oranges to be oranges, and the apples shouldn't speak for them.

 

And possibly the apples don't know that all of the apples are really apples.;)

 

I didn't answer the poll because based on your comments in the first post, it is too vague. Perhaps your interpretation of the "open" comments is not as the poster intended, or perhaps your definition of "pure thoughts" differs from theirs.

 

(Conservative Christian here.)

 

Oddly phrased but :iagree:.

I am most certainly conservative and most definitely do not want DH looking at porn or breaking his neck checking out other women *although it has occasionally happened* but I have a hard time putting silly images of men (or stormtroopers) in kilts in the same category. One set of behaviors/images is demeaning both to the person being oggled and to me as the ignored spouse. The other is not. Besides that, conservative Christian is a self-applied label with no real common definition. There are always going to be people who are more/less conservative than X.

[hsmom23]

Fwiw, I used the wording in my first post because that's what prompted the question, I am not judging apples or oranges. Just asking a question about what other conservative Christian women think. I truly see why people would see both sides and was wondering what others had to say on the subject and what a poll would look like. :D

[Juniper]

I asked dh about this once a few months back. Did it bother him? He playfully toyed with me a moment, pretended to act like I would (early in our marriage) if I caught him admiring a beautiful woman then He just kinda snorted! :D

 

I guess he isn't threatened by men in skirts! ;) I have no problem with my dh admiring beauty. Like another poster I am equally likely to point out a stunning women.

[MamaT]

I'm Christian but I think it is unrealistic to think that men or women are never going to admire the opposite sex. I'm from the "look don't touch" category :)

 

:iagree: We're married, not blind!

[beccad777]

I think that we can look but not lust or ogle. If I see a man who is obviously built and attractive, I am going to notice that. Like someone else said, I'm married, not dead. But if I am openly staring, flirting, going over inappropriate scenarios in my mind, that is wrong.

 

The Bible says that "as a man (woman) thinketh in his (her) heart, so is he (her)." It also says that if you look on someone to lust after them, you have committed adultery already with them in your heart. We are to keep our minds pure.

 

So, it's ok to notice, but not to dwell on it. That is not respectful to your husband. You are communicating to him that he is not good enough if you are ogling other men. That is how I would feel if dh was constantly checking out or staring at other women.

 

You can appreciate beauty in another person, be it man or woman, without crossing the line.

[Ellie]

I don't wanna start arguments and I am gonna add a poll. I am a conservative Christian and I expect pure thoughts and loyalty from my husband. Not perfection but that's the goal. I see people on here who I Think hold husbands to the same standards, but then I see some of these women openly commenting on kilt pictures and such. Is it a double standard in Christian households that women expect husbands to have eyes only for us but don't hold themselves to the same? Is it common? Is this expected from husbands because it's a known male problem but as wives it's not? I really am just curious what people of Christian conservative faiths think about this??

I have always seen discussions about kilts and knock-dead-gorgeous men as fun, goof-off discussions. There's no one here who is truly lusting after any of the men in kilts, no one who is having impure or disloyal thoughts.

 

And it always amazes me when someone brings this up. :001_huh: I mean, seriously?

 

Now, if we were talking about a group of us going to Chippendale's, I'd be all over that.

 

But pictures of men in kilts? :chillpill:

[hsmom23]

Ok, once again to clarify, I understand that a person will notice beauty, to notice and continue on is one thing. I am more debating the "admiring" stage. That moment when noticing becomes admiring. If that makes sense. I know everyone is gonna notice a stunning woman/man momentarily. It's the intentional staring, seeking out pictures (not just p@rn), watching a show because of a favorite looking celebrity, etc. The more casual admiration, not addiction. Iykwim

 

Eta: I am not gonna post anymore. I wasn't upset about men in kilts pics at all, i don't get it myself, but it doesn't mean I am worked up. it was just a springing board for my thoughts. I am not wound up so feel no need to chill : ) I was just curious what other Christian women felt the line was for them in comparison to what they felt it was for their hubby. Simple as that, no judgement.

Edited May 10, 2012 by hsmom23
Done

[Murphy101]

:iagree: We're married, not blind!

 

I have always seen discussions about kilts and knock-dead-gorgeous men as fun, goof-off discussions. There's no one here who is truly lusting after any of the men in kilts, no one who is having impure or disloyal thoughts.

 

And it always amazes me when someone brings this up. :001_huh: I mean, seriously?

 

Now, if we were talking about a group of us going to Chippendale's, I'd be all over that.

 

But pictures of men in kilts? :chillpill:

 

 

:iagree:

 

Also it's not that man that is sexy - it's the kilt!! EVERY man looks more manly in a kilt!;)

[DawnM]

Never mind. If the OP isn't even going to post anymore then I don't see the point in getting involved in the discussion.

Edited May 10, 2012 by DawnM

[T'smom]

I didn't vote because you said you only wanted conservative Christians, and I wasn't sure what you meant by that. I am VERY Christian, but VERY liberal.... it's not a contradiction to me, but it seems to trip other people up.

 

Anyway.....I would not have a problem with dh looking at clothed women. Even if the clothing is very flattering and even kinda skimpy. Like someone else said- it's about what is in your heart. Some people may be truly lusting after some picture- but I'm not. People should stay away from things that they are personally tempted by. The rest of us should not have to cater to them. An alcoholic should stay away from bars. Bars should not cease to exist because they are a problem for some people.

[Aelwydd]

This is why I wrote the post to that specific group that do, please just don't respond if you aren't conservative Christian. I wasn't trying to cause issues, just am curious what people think truly.

 

 

I wish you had made this clear in your first post, and in the poll itself. I voted and then read down. So you may as well minus one vote from your count under "Neither/ Sexual Beauty Appreciation."

[Aelwydd]

I

Now, if we were talking about a group of us going to Chippendale's, I'd be all over that.

 

 

*looks interested* There's a group of us going to Chippendale's?

[Ellie]

*looks interested* There's a group of us going to Chippendale's?

Shhhhhh!!!!! ::whispers:: don't give it away!

[tntgoodwin]

I think it is a double standard.

[Mrs Mungo]

:grouphug:

This is why I wrote the post to that specific group that do, please just don't respond if you aren't conservative Christian. I wasn't trying to cause issues, just am curious what people think truly.

 

Whoops, sorry, I answered the poll before I saw this post. I am Christian, but not a conservative one. I think there is a difference between admiring fully clothed people and viewing images intended to incite lust.

[Parrothead]

Honestly the OP comes across as holier than thou. Then the second post clarifies wanting Conservative Christians (whatever that means) to JAWM.

 

I can't help but wonder if you are passing judgement even though you say you aren't.

 

Honestly I don't care to what standard one holds his/her spouse we live in a fallen world. It is unrealistic to expect someone to never look at someone besides one's spouse in a manner of admiration. God made us visual beings. He made us this way so that His creation would flourish and procreate. One cannot just turn it off when one says "I do." Holding one's spouse to that high of a standard and waiting to pounce (because what else would one do?) is just wrong.

 

I think if one is threatened by ones' spouse doing a little admiring that is more one's problem not one's spouses. IMO jealousy is the 8th deadly sin.

 

There is also a big difference in admiring God's creation (in a kilt or in a burka) than outright lust. I don't think at any time have I seen someone on these boards express an interest in a sexual relationship with any of the guys in a kilt photo. A lot of what I would describe as teen-aged silliness but nothing that will break up a marriage.

 

Oh, as for the vote I voted other. I don't think admiring someone's means admiring them sexually be it a man or a woman doing the admiring.

[LG Gone Wild]

Honestly the OP comes across as holier than thou. Then the second post clarifies wanting Conservative Christians (whatever that means) to JAWM.

 

I can't help but wonder if you are passing judgement even though you say you aren't.

 

Honestly I don't care to what standard one holds his/her spouse we live in a fallen world. It is unrealistic to expect someone to never look at someone besides one's spouse in a manner of admiration. God made us visual beings. He made us this way so that His creation would flourish and procreate. One cannot just turn it off when one says "I do." Holding one's spouse to that high of a standard and waiting to pounce (because what else would one do?) is just wrong.

 

I think if one is threatened by ones' spouse doing a little admiring that is more one's problem not one's spouses. IMO jealousy is the 8th deadly sin.

 

There is also a big difference in admiring God's creation (in a kilt or in a burka) than outright lust. I don't think at any time have I seen someone on these boards express an interest in a sexual relationship with any of the guys in a kilt photo. A lot of what I would describe as teen-aged silliness but nothing that will break up a marriage.

 

Oh, as for the vote I voted other. I don't think admiring someone's means admiring them sexually be it a man or a woman doing the admiring.

 

 

 

:iagree:

[The Girls' Mom]

I voted that, yes, there does seem to be a double standard. In our house, we try to keep to the same one.

 

We both feel free to comment on the beauty/attractiveness of the opposite sex. (i.e. dh thinks Helen Hunt and Leelee Sobieski are gorgeous, and I find Vin Deisel (don't hate) and Nicholas Cage quite pleaseing to the eye, and we talk about that sometimes) Leering/lusting after said person is NOT ok, nor is veiwing pornographic photos of them.

[FairyMom]

I think there are different standards and expectations about this in society in general and sometimes that's unfair. And sometimes there are double standards in individual relationships, which can also be unfair. However, for myself (and my dh), I think it's fine for everyone to appreciate beauty.

 

:iagree:

[Zebra]

There is no double standard, DH is allowed to look at men in kilts any time he wants to.

 

Seriously, I don't think joking about men in kilts is a big deal. It's what is UNDER the kilt that is a big deal ;)!

[KristinaBreece]

There is no double standard, DH is allowed to look at men in kilts any time he wants to.

Seriously, I don't think joking about men in kilts is a big deal. It's what is UNDER the kilt that is a big deal ;)!

 

:smilielol5:

[justamouse]

I have always seen discussions about kilts and knock-dead-gorgeous men as fun, goof-off discussions. There's no one here who is truly lusting after any of the men in kilts, no one who is having impure or disloyal thoughts.

 

And it always amazes me when someone brings this up. :001_huh: I mean, seriously?

 

Now, if we were talking about a group of us going to Chippendale's, I'd be all over that.

 

But pictures of men in kilts? :chillpill:

:iagree:

[gardenmom5]

I think your question is the same as asking a bunch of apples if they think oranges should act like apples too. .)

except she was only asking the apples about apples - not the oranges.

 

I guess he isn't threatened by men in skirts! ;) .

this made me think of Jeff Dunham's routine with (dummy, the crabby) Walter. "I used to chase skirts, then I went to scotland. Boy did I get a suprise!"

Edited May 10, 2012 by gardenmom5

[SonshineLearner]

I think of myself as VERY conservative :) I can see guys in kilts and think "Wow, good lookin'!!" without wanting to have s*x with them. If my husband can look at another woman and think the same... fine. In fact, I'm pretty sure that almost every guy, when seeing an attractive woman, notices. It's what they do with that visual that is the problem... or not. I mean... I see many beautiful flowers... but it doesn't mean I have to pick them all :)

[littlemeadow]

I think that we can look but not lust or ogle. If I see a man who is obviously built and attractive, I am going to notice that. Like someone else said, I'm married, not dead. But if I am openly staring, flirting, going over inappropriate scenarios in my mind, that is wrong.

 

The Bible says that "as a man (woman) thinketh in his (her) heart, so is he (her)." It also says that if you look on someone to lust after them, you have committed adultery already with them in your heart. We are to keep our minds pure.

 

So, it's ok to notice, but not to dwell on it. That is not respectful to your husband. You are communicating to him that he is not good enough if you are ogling other men. That is how I would feel if dh was constantly checking out or staring at other women.

 

You can appreciate beauty in another person, be it man or woman, without crossing the line.

 

 

The above is quoted from one of the other posters, but it doesn't look right because apparently I don't know how to work the features of a forum...I don't forumize very much. My apologies to the poster who wrote this if it looks as though I plagiarized your reply.

 

 

I agree with the above quote. And I also wanted to say that I think we probably all notice beauty in another individual. It is the dwelling stage that is being questioned, I think. For me personally, I don't feel right if I linger on someone else's beauty, man or woman. If it is a man's beauty, then I feel a disloyalty to my husband. If it is either sexes beauty, I still don't feel right, as I feel like I am objectifying that individual.

Edited May 10, 2012 by littlemeadow
I don't know how to use this forum very well.

[Coffeetime]

I'm Christian but I think it is unrealistic to think that men or women are never going to admire the opposite sex. I'm from the "look don't touch" category :)

 

:iagree:

[Farrar]

I have always seen discussions about kilts and knock-dead-gorgeous men as fun, goof-off discussions. There's no one here who is truly lusting after any of the men in kilts, no one who is having impure or disloyal thoughts.

 

Oh, I think some of us are actually lusting for the men in kilts. :D

[mo2]

I see many beautiful flowers... but it doesn't mean I have to pick them all :)

 

 

I can't comment on the thread because I'm not Christian, but I do love this analogy, regardless of religion!

[6packofun]

I think there is a double standard, but I also think that women have, in part, helped sustain it.

 

There are a surprising number of Christian women who think that, biologically, God created men to be so visual and sex-hungry that having their husband get some relief by himself sometimes (ahem, with or without pics to "help") is perfectly OK and even preferable because they can't/won't satisfy their dh alone and, by golly, God just made him that way. Talk about reducing men to cavemen without self-control or helping perpetuate a stupid stereotype! Men are visual! They can't help it! Boys will be boys! And this from the women in their lives. Gag. God calls us all to purity and that doesn't end when one gets married.

[elegantlion]

All that said, if my husband were bothered by me saying some celebrity is good looking I would keep it to myself. The last thing I want to do his hurt him over something dumb like that. And I'd expect the same from him.

 

But honestly, we are both secure enough not to care about some fleeting comment or noticing of underwear models. If other couples are not, that's fine too. It's really about treating one's spouse with respect (based on what the other spouse finds respectful or not).

 

:iagree:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Not this again. . . . I'm a conservative Christian. The only man I desire is my husband. I laugh about men in kilts. I'm not lusting after them. Most of us don't actually find kilts themselves all that wonderful but it is an in-joke. (There are polls and threads on this that you could look up if you have the time to waste.)

[PeacefulChaos]

I have to be honest and say that I am a complete prude. :lol:

I do definitely see a double standard between men and women in society. Here, however, we (DH and I) feel that ogling of someone by either of us is just wrong. That's just how we feel. I don't judge others for it. We are both comfortable with noticing attractiveness (this is the most prevalent in media, obviously) but I know that if I find an actor particularly good looking and he takes his shirt off in the movie (for example), I look away. DH does the same. It's one thing to notice when someone is attractive, it's another thing to ogle someone or allow oneself to get...um...heated by someone other than one's spouse.

That's just our personal feelings/convictions on the subject. I know for many it is much different, but it's what we've found that is best for us.

[Soror]

I see it at as a double standard.

[butterflymommy]

I have ogled a few men in view of the hive. But... it never goes further in my mind than ogling. I never have fantasies or X rated thoughts about the guys. I just think, "WOW!" My impression is that men tend to take those extra steps in the direction of mental videos. So I voted it's ok because of the differences between the sexes.

[WishboneDawn]

I don't wanna start arguments and I am gonna add a poll. I am a conservative Christian and I expect pure thoughts and loyalty from my husband. Not perfection but that's the goal. I see people on here who I Think hold husbands to the same standards, but then I see some of these women openly commenting on kilt pictures and such. Is it a double standard in Christian households that women expect husbands to have eyes only for us but don't hold themselves to the same? Is it common? Is this expected from husbands because it's a known male problem but as wives it's not? I really am just curious what people of Christian conservative faiths think about this??

 

I think you're assuming some faulty things here. Do you know that the women here commenting on kilt pictures are conservative Christians or are conservative Christians that hold the same view of pure and loyal thoughts that you do?

 

I'm betting the majority of women here don't have a double standard and the ones commenting on the kilt pictures are not those that expect completely pure and loyal thoughts from their husbands.

[Joanne]

No double standard here. I don't hold the expectation that married people should limit their fantasy and mental fun the their spouse.

:grouphug:

And, frankly, if both parties mutually decide to allow in person fun, I am ok with that.

[Parrothead]

I take the kilt thing as a joke too. Although it would be interesting if my husband would put one on. :D

My dh refuses. I've tried to get him to put one on several times over the past year or two.

[Parrothead]

To me it is only a problem if a spouse is upset by it. I don't go on and on about how hot I think this or that guy is, but make an occasional comment. DH doesn't go on and on about women, but makes an occasional comment. I'm pretty sure he notices the women in the Victoria Secret commercials. I often say out loud that I wonder who they are selling their underwear to...certainly not women IMO, but anyhow. I'm not upset about it at all. I know he would not be upset about a comment about a guy (especially a celebrity). It would get uncomfortable, I am sure, if we started going on and on about people in our lives. I mean who wants their spouse to tell them that gee I think your friend John is hot? Not me. But we don't do stuff like that.

 

...

Probably in all reality the spouse doing the looking doesn't stop he/she just learns to hid it better.

[leeannpal]

I agree that it is a double standard.

[Jean in Newcastle]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347277