Snickerdoodle Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 that my son won't be able to function in a real math environment (ie a job) because he doesn't have group experience with math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 How many mathematicians does it take to solve a math problem? I hear a joke coming. LOL. Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anissa Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Yea, I often see workers in the "real world" sitting around figuring out math problems. Oh please....that is the silliest thing I've ever heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted September 28, 2010 Author Share Posted September 28, 2010 In the interest in being neighborly, I was able to keep myself from unloading my feelings on the current educational model used in our local public school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3lilreds in NC Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Group math experience? I am very confused. Perhaps my own work experience doesn't qualify me to understand a "real math environment" but I don't see how my public school math education involved much "group math experience." I think your math teacher doesn't like homeschooling. What they said just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilymax Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 How many mathematicians does it take to solve a math problem? I hear a joke coming. LOL. Really? :lol: Thanks for that morning laugh! I wonder where that teacher learned that little gem of knowledge? :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted September 28, 2010 Author Share Posted September 28, 2010 but I don't see how my public school math education involved much "group math experience." She was explicitly referring to Everyday Math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mejane Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 I snorted. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 that my son won't be able to function in a real math environment (ie a job) because he doesn't have group experience with math. How hard is it to learn to copy someone's paper? That's what happens in our "group math." One or two kids learn how to do something and everyone else in the group copies it down... For what it's worth, I've yet to see that come in useful for my job - or hubby's and we both use plenty of math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarlaS Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 She was explicitly referring to Everyday Math. Oh. Well then.... feel free to explicitly ignore her. :D How young is she anyway? Apparently too young to have noticed it's massive failure yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 She was explicitly referring to Everyday Math. Oh, well that makes a difference. It took me 2 YEARS to catch my youngest up in math after he was introduced to that fiasco in our elementary school. I pulled him out after 4th grade... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 If you really want your child to have group math experience, try to find some math activities. Otherwise, don't worry about it. I think it would be nice for my kids to have experience with group problem solving; with motivated group members, it is a beneficial experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted September 28, 2010 Author Share Posted September 28, 2010 Otherwise, don't worry about it. Oh, I'm not worried about it. I think perhaps she was trying to pull the whole "Plebeians can't possibly teach math" routine on me. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosy Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Wow--the kids I knew who excelled in math weren't exactly....how should I say this...the type to welcome group situations. Myself included. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 I seriously just lol'd. I worked in the CAD/automotive enigineering field in my life-before-kids, and my dh is a computer programmer in the same field. I don't recall EVER solving a math problem as a group. How silly. I'd venture to say my dh hasn't, either. You either know how to do the math, or you know how to ask someone with help to figure it out. I'm guessing your son can do both just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole M Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Maybe this math teacher had confused the recent findings that indicate group study enhances math performance, specifically in Asian countries, with the idea that we need "group" math to be able to function in a work environment. Perhaps two studies came out, and in our brilliant American mind, we fused the two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 She was explicitly referring to Everyday Math. Ooh. I just had a chance to look at an Everyday Math teacher's book. It was scary. Calculators for first graders as an integral part of the curriculum? And apparently they mention things once and just move on:confused: I mean, I get that it had some elements that were better than just rote, chug and plug, but good grief. I'm so glad we're doing something completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Dh is an actuary and also has FSA certification. His jobs are almost entirely math and statistics focused. Group math is not something he ever does. It's true that he and his coworkers will check each others' final work, and it's true that they might collaborate on projects by each taking a chunk of the work, but they do not work through the math itself together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 I about spit out my coffee when I read the OP. Yes, I think it's about EM. What boggles my mind is that anyone could actually believe that, let alone a math teacher. Moreover, as much as I have no respect for EM whatsoever (and would afterschool or homeschool rather than have my kids do EM), my understanding was that the group component was about "discovering" ways to get to the solution rather than about collective/group action/thinking in and of itself. In other words, I think the fact that kids are in groups has little to do with the underlying process of discovery behind EM (other than to "discover" the answer faster; LOL, copying from the student next to you indeed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 My ds is in AP Precalculus & Computer Science at ps. They don't do any group math. He goes part-time and I supplement with precalc at home as well. I wouldn't worry one second about what that teacher said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 that my son won't be able to function in a real math environment (ie a job) because he doesn't have group experience with math. :blink: Ummm..... ok? When dh was in the Navy, they often had to calculate nuclear stuff (can't remember the exact term). It was always one person doing the calculations alone. Someone else may have checked, but it wasn't some group thing. I cannot think of any situation where people are actually doing calculations in group settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 How hard is it to learn to copy someone's paper? Oh SNAP! lol OP: I bet you just smiled and said, "Why bless your heart!" Like I've said before, some people just like to hear their mouths fart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3lilreds in NC Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 How hard is it to learn to copy someone's paper? That's what happens in our "group math." One or two kids learn how to do something and everyone else in the group copies it down... That is EXACTLY what I was thinking! :lol: I was trying not to be snarky. Ha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Did they say that with a straight face? I sure wouldn't have been able to keep one after hearing that!!! :lol: I would have said something about how they're not only missing out on group math, but spelling bees. Don't they usually have one of those after the morning coffee break at work? Oh and group penmanship too? We've found some teachers to be the most strongly opposed to homeschooling. Some others are supportive, or even homeschooling their own children. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x02100sks Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 How hard is it to learn to copy someone's paper? That's what happens in our "group math." One or two kids learn how to do something and everyone else in the group copies it down... My thoughts exactly... my nephew finished Saxon Math 2 last year at home and started 1st grade in PS (with Everyday Math)- he has "learned" to copy the kid next to him- erasing his CORRECT work to copy the wrong answers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tress Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 'group math experience' :lol: Thanks for the laugh! Group math experience, where one student does all the work and the rest of the students just wait and write down the answer. Yeah, I think we all need that experience, at least once, to be able to function in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alte Veste Academy Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Hmmmm....back when I worked in an office, one of my colleagues was a man from China with a PhD in math or stats. We would frequently consult with each other and have discussions about our work. I loved working with him because he had so many ideas and much knowledge to share, and was interested in other's ideas about different strategies to use, what would be most efficient, etc. When I read Liping Ma's book about the teacher's meeting and learning I was reminded of this man.Probably that's not what the OP was about though. After I laughed out loud and snorted, this was my second thought. However, after reading Ma's book, I sincerely doubt the same thing is going on in the OP's situation. I get the feeling that in the vast majority of American schools (especially elementary), group math is basically a situation of the blind leading the blind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristusG Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Group math experience? That's ridiculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 She was explicitly referring to Everyday Math. Geez that makes it even funnier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belacqua Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Wow--the kids I knew who excelled in math weren't exactly....how should I say this...the type to welcome group situations. Myself included. :P Heh. Good point. I'm just thinking of how my son's math team coach ran practices. Not a lot of collaboration. Even when the kids practiced for the "team" section of a competition, the coach had them work problems individually then compare answers. And typically, as Tress pointed out, in the case of disagreement the kids just deferred to whoever was strongest at that type of math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Group learning is a big trend in public school. My dh teaches world history in ps. He isn't supposed to "just lecture", use too many worksheets, or have them read the textbook too much. I guess he should use mental telephathy? They have to teach the standards and have them posted in the room daily. What they want are elaborate power point presentations (just a fancy overhead if you ask me) and group projects where kids are coming together to collaborate. We all know how that goes. The smartest, hardest working kid(s) in the group do all the work and others just sit there. I'm all for trying different methods. With 35 kids in some of his classes, different methods will appeal to somebody. I just wish some sanity would come back to public education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 How hard was it not to burst out laughing? I'm not a great mathlete(which means I'm not mathy;)), but when I was working on a hard problem in school I didn't want anyone bothering me, much less a group setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Oh, puleease. Congratulations on being gracious. People like that don't merit a response IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 I think it would be nice for my kids to have experience with group problem solving; with motivated group members, it is a beneficial experience. :iagree: I remember vividly one math exercice we had to work on in university, that took about 10 students to solve, and the whole thing ended up being 16 pages long. (now I have no clue what it was we were supposed to solve, but I remember the group effort it took!) That said, we had no group experience in school; it was fashionable when we were youngster, and we still managed to solve that differential equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Dh is a physicist and he has never done math in a group if you mean everyone sit around and throw out possible answers. He has done math alone that belonged in a group project and he has either helped someone with math or asked for some help with math but no group math. One big reason I homeschool is so my kids don't have to go through the tortures of group projects. They have all worked on projects in groups but those were voluntary projects that only willing participants helped. That is different. Throwing together mostly unwilling participants plus one diligent participant ensures that all the work is done by the diligent student. Such activities as Odyssey of the Mind, being on a debate team, or being in Boy Scouts and helping in Eagle Projects all are examples of willing group work. ALso, all of my children were in choirs and sports teams, again willing group work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberia Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Not entirely off topic: I have a friend who is a public high school math teacher. She said her classroom theme for the year is: "Social Justice." No kidding. This was imposed on her, not her choice. She would have chosen something that mentioned working hard, attention to detail, or something about MATH perhaps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatherwith4 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 How hard is it to learn to copy someone's paper? That's what happens in our "group math." One or two kids learn how to do something and everyone else in the group copies it down... For what it's worth, I've yet to see that come in useful for my job - or hubby's and we both use plenty of math. :iagree: I was a kid who did the work, and other kids copied my paper. Fun times...really useful... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippen Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 that my son won't be able to function in a real math environment (ie a job) because he doesn't have group experience with math. She might partially be onto something there. If he's ever working as a cashier and the register goes down, this means he'll be able to calculate change without the help of a group. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 my dh (math-head to the extreme) would bust a gut laughing at that !!! He's an engineer and uses big time math EVERY DAY! Nobody ever holds his hand and helps him with it, he would tell them to get lost if they even wanted to watch over his shoulder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalypso Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 :iagree: I was a kid who did the work, and other kids copied my paper. Fun times...really useful... This was my experience with any group project in high school and a couple of times in college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Goldwater Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 that my son won't be able to function in a real math environment (ie a job) because he doesn't have group experience with math. Your son will be the CEO. With the 'group' working for him...how's that for a 'function?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 She was explicitly referring to Everyday Math. I don't think I would have had your self control. I've already unloaded to one local teacher about that program. New math is the whole language of this generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 She might partially be onto something there. If he's ever working as a cashier and the register goes down, this means he'll be able to calculate change without the help of a group. ;) :lol::lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Oh SNAP! lol OP: I bet you just smiled and said, "Why bless your heart!" Like I've said before, some people just like to hear their mouths fart. You are hilarious. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 :iagree: I was a kid who did the work, and other kids copied my paper. Fun times...really useful... Yep, me too. I cannot stand group projects. Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 I pulled mine out after 5th and it took us until 10th. Ug. Group math can be fully experienced when they get together with friends to do their homework together in college. I do think there is such a thing as group math, having experienced it under those circumstances, but I also think it isn't anything that can't be learned by group something else, like making and eating family meals together. I wouldn't worry about it. I would be much more worried about the Everyday Math part... Flee. Flee. -Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 that my son won't be able to function in a real math environment (ie a job) because he doesn't have group experience with math. Because engineers are known for their social skills? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Because engineers are known for their social skills? Really? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 my dh (math-head to the extreme) would bust a gut laughing at that !!! He's an engineer and uses big time math EVERY DAY! Nobody ever holds his hand and helps him with it, he would tell them to get lost if they even wanted to watch over his shoulder! Yes, but does he use Everyday Math?! If not, and if not in a group situation, then he is DOING IT WRONG and will never make it in a public school! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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