We have a potluck every Sunday at our homefellowship (usually at least 50 people, frequently more). Nothing is ever assigned; everyone brings whatever they want. It always works out just fine. So I vote for wingin' it.

"For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name. And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation." - Mary, the mother of Jesus (in Luke 1:49-50)

I don't disagree with you at all. My point was that the girl is not free of her own personal responsibility in the situation. Not ALL of the blame for the horrible situation lies with the boys. I'm not sticking up for the boys at ALL. And yes, they were MORE wrong than she was. But she was still wrong. Look, if I went walking around downtown Detroit with a big wad of cash hanging out of my back pocket on purpose because I wanted everyone to see how much money I had, and then someone robbed me, I think it would be disingenuous of me to then say, "Well I'm just SHOCKED and APPALLED that someone robbed me!" Most people would probably think, "Well, it's awful you got robbed, and that guy should go to jail. But why in the *world* were your walking around downtown Detroit with a wad of cash hanging out of your pocket on purpose in the FIRST place?!" How is this different? Why should the girl bear NO personal responsibility? Yes, what the boys did was WORSE than what she did. No doubt. And the fact that she ended up taking her life is tragic, surely. None of that excuses her of her own personal responsibility in the situation.

This is absurd. Just because I believe the girl acted shamefully at that party does NOT mean I have no compassion for her and her parents. Again, it's not an either/or situation. Yes, it is absolutely awful that this girl felt she had to take her life. That *still* doesn't make what she did at that party not shameful.

Yeah, I get it, people don't agree with me. I'm ok with that. I'm curious how it is that MY OPINION on something can be *wrong*. I was unaware that you, ChocolateReign, were the authority on right and wrongness.

Yeah. 'Cause that's what I said. If I had a daughter, and she was getting drunk and making out with multiple boys at fifteen years old, I would feel I had done something seriously wrong in raising the girl.

I don't disagree. I'm sure that happens. I did say 'perhaps'. I don't care if it's and unpopular or un 'PC" opinion. I think the parents failed their daughter, and I think the girl did things she shouldn't have, AND I think the boys should be in legal trouble ALONG with being ashamed of what they did. I don't see how that's so horrible, but apparently it is.

If her parents had bothered to teach her from a young age that those things were shameful, and were involved in her life, and made sure she did not put herself in such dangerous situations, perhaps she would still be alive. If her parents had taught her she was worth more than that, that she didn't need to do those shameful things to get approval from other people, perhaps she wouldn't even have been in that situation. If people would bother to parent their children, teach them morals and values and how to treat one another, perhaps all this evil wouldn't happen in the first place. The fact that she killed herself does not *change* the fact that her participation in the event was shameful. It just doesn't.

I do not want to live in a society that teaches that Audrie *shouldn't* be ashamed of what she did. Because she SHOULD.She should be ashamed of lying to her parents, of drinking underage, of getting drunk and making out with multiple boys in one night, of wearing see-through shorts pulled down so that her thong underwear shows. She should have parents that teach her that those things are shameful. Because they are. None of that relieves the boys of their own misdeeds. None of that means they shouldn't be held accountable for violating her. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. It's both. Both her and the boys did things they shouldn't have. I don't think it's fair to say that the girl has NO responsibility for what happened to her in this situation. SHE chose to go to the party, knowing that she did not have parental permission to go. SHE chose to get drunk, knowing that she shouldn't even be drinking at all in the first place. I'm sure she knew that she'd lose control of her faculties once drunk. We all know that. And then those boys CHOSE to violate her. They ALL did things they shouldn't have. She should be ashamed. I did some very similar things when I was just a few years older than this girl. And yes, I am now very ashamed of them. Those boys should be ashamed. Regardless of how drunk a girl is, you shouldn't be taking naked pictures of her and showing them to your friends. I just don't get how it is that we're supposed to teach our boys that girls can be as slutty and falling down drunk as they want, but you'd better be completely responsible every single second. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. EVERYONE should be taking care to be responsible for themselves AND each other.

THIS. For crying out loud. No, the boys are not innocent. They should not have violated the girl. They should not have taken pictures, drawn on her with markers. She is not innocent, either. She lied to her parents about what she was going to be doing, she was drinking when she obviously is not of age. They all are to blame. All of them. She shouldn't have been violated, and at the same time, she shouldn't have put herself in a postion to BE violated. Because none of them should have been there in the first place. They shouldn't have been having a drunk party full of 15 year olds. Where are their freaking parents?!

I'm frequently faced with more than I can handle. Many (most?) of us are, I'd assume. The trials my father went through this past year with his heart attack? Many, MANY moments that I could not handle. And other, even more personal situations in my life feel like more than I can bear at times. But God. Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. - Philippians 4:11-13 Without Jesus I am nothing and can do nothing. I mean that sincerely. He is my strength, my rock, my ever present help in times of trouble. And scripture promises us that He will be. On my own, I am useless and can do nothing. But through Christ alone can I persevere. This life is full of hardships for everyone in our own ways. I cope by giving my burdens to Christ. When I try to carry them on my own, I fail miserably every time. Christ is what sustains me day to day.

Well, yeah, I understand that. Hmmm.... Perhaps your parents know someone selling a vehicle who would be willing to lend or 'rent' it to you while you're here? I don't know your parent's financial situation, but could *they* buy a vehicle for you to use while you're here, and then sell it again once you've gone back? You could forward them money to use and then they could send the money back after they sold it, too.

Heather, I'd buy the car and then ask your parents to make sure to use it at least once a month. Like others said, it's important to actually drive the car for a fair amount of time on a regular basis. Are your parents involved in a church? Or did you all have a church family here in Michigan before you moved oversees? Perhaps one of those groups has someone (or more than one person) who has a vehicle to lend you. For example, I know we don't know each other, but I'd lend you my van for a solid week to ten days. But honestly, it'd be too much to lend it for four to six weeks. So if you know four or five people who could lend a vehicle for a week or so each, maybe that'd work?

I had to vote other. I think it's fine for Christians to consume alcohol, either daily or occasionally, given two things; 1) that it is not causing another brother or sister to stumble, and 2) that there is no drunkeness involved. I, myself, have a glass of wine about every two years, lol. But if another Brother or Sister wants to have a glass of wine or a beer each night with their dinner, that makes no difference to me at all. However, if that other Brother or Sister was overindulging and becoming drunk, that is where I believe they are disobeying Scripture. Also there can be a situation where one Brother or Sister's alcohol consumption could become a stumbling block to another Brother or Sister, and in that case, Scripture instructs it would be best to abstain. (Perhaps a husband has past issues with alcohol abuse, and his while his wife is able to have a glass of wine with dinner and be fine, perhaps it's best if alcohol is not kept in the house at all so as not to be a temptation to her husband. Just trying to give an example.)

Sure, it makes sense. I just don't agree. :D