Should everyone go gluten-free?

[Hyacinth]

Earlier this week I asked about my husband’s severe joint pain. One dose of Prednisone knocked the symptoms overnight and the blood test came back negative for whatever would’ve triggered a referral to the rheumatologist. Yay! 

But while I was waiting for those results, I did some googling 🤪. And now I’m wondering about the Hive’s opinion on gluten. Bad for everyone (even if some don’t recognize symptoms of auto immune disease)? Should be limited? Not a concern? Somewhere in between these options?

[KatieJ]

I’m starting to think that way.

[Harriet Vane]

I don't think it's bad for everyone.

I gave it up because of intolerance--symptoms included a spectrum. I had swelling and joint pain that improved dramatically when I gave up gluten, but I also had gastro symptoms. 

Prior to a serious illness several years ago, I could eat gluten just fine. 

No one else in my family has any of my issues. For those reasons I also think gluten is fine. 

I do think there is a lot of evidence out there for the perils of processed foods. 

[SKL]

I'm no expert, but I think for most of us, at least in middle age or older, gluten can be a mild irritant.  I would think just eating it in moderation would suffice for most people.

It would be very difficult to go gluten free - economically and logistically.  It's not realistic to consider taking the whole world population off of gluten.

[Catwoman]

I see no reason for most people to go gluten-free.

I understand it's necessary for those who have an intolerance, but for the rest of us, I don't think gluten is harmful.

And they can pry my pasta and my fresh baked Italian bread from my cold, dead hands. 😉 

[marbel]

I think people who feel better not eating gluten, or those who have had tests indicating celiac or gluten intolerance, should not eat gluten.  There are lots of resourced for gluten-free eating and I know several people who avoid it at various levels. It's not easy to live completely GF, at least at a level that cross-contamination is an issue. 

But, I don't know why healthy people with no issues should avoid or restrict it. I think the time will come shelf space in the grocery store for gluten-free items may rival that of gluten-containing items, but that is a long way off. 

[prairiewindmomma]

I think most people would do well to eat more veg and legumes, but I don’t believe gluten = evil. I think a % of people have issues with gluten, but I think a lot of the binders and gums used in GF products are just as irritating as gluten. Do your own GFCF trial to sort out whether gluten affects you, but for me it has 0 effect on my rheumatoid arthritis. 
 

I think highly processed foods are more of an issue. 

[El...]

When we lived in Germany, a number of friends who had previously believed themselves seriously gluten intolerant found that they could eat the fresh bakery foods.

Those leaves would mold in four summer days. The crumb was excellent; they had plenty of gluten.  So we came to think that it might not be gluten that was the issue for folks. Maybe preservatives? Processing?

It's not scientific, but it was very interesting. 

[cintinative]

I would say, generally, no..  I think the impression people get of "gluten free" is that it is all healthy. That can be true, but it is not always true. 

Whole foods are generally always going to be good for you: whole grains, beans, nuts, meat, dairy, fruits, veggies, etc. I would go that route before I went gluten-free if I had options. 

Eating totally gluten free can be challenging (and by that I mean no trace amounts).  Traveling and finding places to eat can be challenging in this scenario.  We have a Celiac kid so we live this.

For the people who do not have Celiac or a more serious form of sensitivity, a good variety in the diet is always good.  Eat a mix of grains, gluten free and otherwise.  

I find if I eat too much gluten, I feel off, but I can eat it. So balance, I guess?

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by cintinative

[ktgrok]

Did they test him for Celiac?

 

[Indigo Blue]

I have a non celiac gluten intolerance. Having said that, my opinion (and it’s only an opinion) is that, yes, gluten seems to be bad for so many people, so we’d be better off if we didn’t eat it. How much of this is because commercial processed white bread is not good for you and doing terrible things to people’s health? How much of it is just the gluten itself? 
 

I tend to think if one uses organic heirloom  flours and bakes from scratch and eats bread in moderation, that might be way less offensive. 
 

Lots of people get gassy from gluten. Like clear the room gassy. It’s very common. When Dh stopped eating gluten, that problem completely vanished. See, that just makes me wonder. 
 

I mean, we’d all be better off to eat a better diet, right? I would say that probably includes avoiding gluten…..I suppose. Demonizing gluten aside, bread is full of bad carbs, and for that reason, I believe we’d be healthier as a population without it. I somehow feel I should duck and run now……
 
Just my two cents. 

 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

9 minutes ago, El... said:

When we lived in Germany, a number of friends who had previously believed themselves seriously gluten intolerant found that they could eat the fresh bakery foods.

Those leaves would mold in four summer days. The crumb was excellent; they had plenty of gluten.  So we came to think that it might not be gluten that was the issue for folks. Maybe preservatives? Processing?

It's not scientific, but it was very interesting. 

This is true for me. A lot of US commercial bakeries use preservatives and dough conditioners that are banned in Europe. Homemade stuff or stuff from the local artisan bakeries causes me no problems.

[Junie]

Fifteen years ago, a few years after being diagnosed with RA, I went to the allergist for testing to see if I was possibly allergic to something that might be enhancing the RA inflammation response.  I tested allergic to wheat, oats, and barley.

I went gluten free the next day.

A few weeks later, I noticed that my arthritis was much better.  Not in remission, but noticeably better.  The benefit lasted for nine years, before my symptoms worsened again.

However, I became very, very sensitive to gluten.  I would have anaphylactic symptoms, even though I never cheated.  The allergy was airborne and I had to avoid certain situations and my kids were limited in the gluten they could eat (such as pizza bagels and oatmeal) because the smell of it would make me sick.

Sometimes I would have stomach cramps that were extremely painful.  The only effective way I found to treat them was to go on a liquid diet for five days to give my digestive system time to heal.

This summer, when I went to the allergist to get a new epi-pen, he decided to redo my testing.  I was reluctant because I didn't want to find out that I was allergic to something else, but he convinced me.  

I was absolutely shocked to find out that my food allergies were completely gone.  We did additional testing and it seems that my allergies are gone.  There's really no medical explanation for my allergies disappearing.  I have been telling people that God smiled on me.

I have added gluten back into my diet and I have not noticed any negative effects.  And I am very much enjoying foods that I thought I was going to have to avoid forever.

[busymama7]

In my opinion it's not the gluten exactly but the lack of proper processing.  Quick rise yeast seemed to be such a blessing but it prevented the long slow rise of sourdough which breaks down the gluten.  We feel a big difference when we eat bread etc that is properly soured/prepared.  I have close family who has been gluten free for years/decades for health and genetic reasons and can eat sourdough just fine.  

[Pawz4me]

No, I most definitely do not believe everyone should go gluten free. I have two AI diseases and have experimented a lot with diet. Gluten has zero effect on any of my symptoms, inflammation markers or any other blood work. And as someone who prefers to eat mostly vegetarian and who has IBS that requires limiting or eliminating several types of FODMAPs—I’d be in a bad place if I also gave up gluten. 

I agree that much of what is blamed on gluten is likely due to processing methods and/or other additives. 

[Laura Corin]

No, I don't.  There have been well-conducted double-blind trials that have showed that most people who think they have a sensitivity to gluten do not. 

[Pawz4me]

FWIW—Over the years I’ve had two rheumatologists. Both have recommended a mostly vegetarian, Mediterranean type, low processed food diet. Both have said not to eliminate gluten unless I had reason to believe it was a problem for me (which as I posted before—I don’t ). 

[alysee]

My understanding is As long as you eat healthy - you will need to replace B vitamins specifically if you do decide to go gluten free. Those vitamins are easy to get when you eat lots of whole wheat Bread. You will have to eat the green vegetables that have a lot of B vitamins. This is just off the top of my head so I could be wrong on the vegetable type. It's easy with a bit of Practice though and necessary for lots of people. 

[KungFuPanda]

I can't imagine giving up a food that is causing me zero problems.  Usually I eat the bread I make because I like it better, but I eat store bought stuff too.  I don't eat TONS of bread either way.  Homemade sourdough doesn't mold very fast either.  I live in a humid climate and it lasts days longer than non-sourdough baked goods.  I make my favorite bread with all the seeds, slice it, and keep it in the freezer until I need a piece.  It can last me a month.

Giving up something that doesn't bother you seems silly.  I'm blessed with cooperative systems.

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, El... said:

When we lived in Germany, a number of friends who had previously believed themselves seriously gluten intolerant found that they could eat the fresh bakery foods.

Those leaves would mold in four summer days. The crumb was excellent; they had plenty of gluten.  So we came to think that it might not be gluten that was the issue for folks. Maybe preservatives? Processing?

It's not scientific, but it was very interesting. 

Yes.  I can eat bakery bread in Germany and I can bread I bake myself,  but American store bought bread gives me severe stomach issues. It's not the gluten, but all the other additives.

[regentrude]

I see no reason to avoid gluten if it doesn't cause issues for a person. Historically, grain based foods were staples that provided 70-80% of calories. The traditional diets of our European ancestors include gluten. The Mediterranean diet that is touted as healthful has gluten.

It may be an issue for some, but isn't generally unhealthy. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by regentrude

[Clarita]

I think gluten isn't bad for you unless you have an intolerance. That said I think some people eat a lot of non-nutritious that also happens to have gluten. They go gluten-free, cut those out and feel better.  

Like some the examples people have cited here with bread. fresh bread made with high quality wheat (not processed until there isn't a shred of nutrition left) vs highly processed Wonder bread can make a big difference. The same with pasta and other foods with gluten.  

[Rosie_0801]

Factory processes take all its quality away, then we blame it for being unhealthy? How abusive of us. We're victim blaming wheat!

[ScoutTN]

Just now, Rosie_0801 said:

Factory processes take all its quality away, then we blame it for being unhealthy? How abusive of us. We're victim blaming wheat!

🤣🤣🤣

[Rosie_0801]

A lot of people who are sensitive to bread wheat are perfectly fine with durum wheat.

[Kalmia]

There might be a second (or third or fourth) player involved, with some people having celiac disease, and other people sensitive to gluten or other additives (dough conditioners, rapid rise yeast) and still others sensitive to the herbicide glyphosate (Roundup) sprayed on conventional crops right before harvest as a desiccant. 

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

Lots of people get gassy from gluten. Like clear the room gassy. It’s very common. When Dh stopped eating gluten, that problem completely vanished. See, that just makes me wonder. 

I’ve not heard of other people having this issue before, but that was me. My belly would swell daily to the point that I looked pregnant, and I was in agony from the cramps toward the end of day until things worked out. 

Later, after I started having issues with other food (though not the gas), I found out that people with mast cell activation syndrome tend to get gassy like this, and many people with MCAS are triggered by gluten.

Your husband might want to look into MCAS.

[klmama]

And some with MCAS are affected by the wheat germ in the whole wheat, but can eat white bread just fine.  

In response to the original question, no, I don't think everyone should be gluten-free.  But a lot of people benefit from it, whether because of the gluten or some other component in gluten-containing grains.

[Grace Hopper]

4 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

This is true for me. A lot of US commercial bakeries use preservatives and dough conditioners that are banned in Europe. Homemade stuff or stuff from the local artisan bakeries causes me no problems.

I have a non-Celiac gluten intolerance (lots of diagnosing/testing iow not just me figuring it out). I avoid gluten most of the time, but can eat a slice of sourdough bread every now and then. I buy local, not commercial. 
 

Can’t remember if it was here or elsewhere that I read many people with “gluten” issues are actually reactive to the super active yeast used in factory bread. 
 

My GI doc says gluten is not a problem for people who don’t have issues tolerating it. But imo “tolerating” it goes beyond feeling it in the gut. If I am traveling or for some other reason take in too much gluten and/or dairy, it shows on my face (rosacea flare). Not surprised to hear of others’ non-GI reactions. 

[Indigo Blue]

6 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Not surprised to hear of others’ non-GI reactions. 

I get giant, red, angry ulcers inside my mouth that last for over two weeks. I have read in more than one place that these aren’t the average mouth sores people sometimes get, and that the type associated with gluten sensitivity (and celiac, too) are much larger and more painful. It’s wonderful to be free of those horrid things. 

[PronghornD]

I once thought I had a problem with digesting gluten. After a while, I figured out that the problem was broader -- excess carbohydrates. So, if you think gluten is causing some digestive issues, watch for any impact of other carbohydrates. Now I eat gluten, but I just try to keep the overall carbs down to a level that does not irritate my gut.

[popmom]

4 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I think most people would do well to eat more veg and legumes, but I don’t believe gluten = evil. I think a % of people have issues with gluten, but I think a lot of the binders and gums used in GF products are just as irritating as gluten. Do your own GFCF trial to sort out whether gluten affects you, but for me it has 0 effect on my rheumatoid arthritis. 
 

I think highly processed foods are more of an issue. 

This is what I was going to say. Add emulsifiers (carageenan??) to the list of problematic ingredients for some people. Sometimes I wonder if people who go gluten free and feel better are responding to eliminating processed foods. 

Although there are now tons of gluten free processed foods on the market, so...

Edited November 3, 2023 by popmom

[lewelma]

I've just finished the scientific literature review for the application here in NZ to the Environmental Protection Authority to reassess glyphosate (Roundup herbicide) and potentially ban it. (My first big side hustle since starting to reorient my career after homeschooling). I summarized the impact to both the environment and human health, and the problems with the archaic assessment methodology they use which masks roundup's effects. 

In short, Roundup is used in the USA (and most countries) to dessicate wheat to make it easier to harvest. About 90% of the wheat crop in the USA is sprayed.  Because it is sprayed at harvest time (rather than during planting), glyphosate is definitely still in wheat when it is eaten (the half life is somewhere from 30 to 180 days, and that is HALF life). Glyphosate has been found the food we buy and in human gut, urine, and feces. Glyphosate is not denatured by cooking. Glyphosate kills not only plants but also kills bacteria, including the microbiome in the human gut.

So if you are having trouble with wheat, it could be because your gut bacteria cannot tolerate the impact of glyphosate. After doing this work, I have switched to organic wheat for my family.

Edited November 3, 2023 by lewelma

[Corraleno]

The long slow fermentation process of traditional sourdough allows enough time for the yeasts and bacteria to break down gluten and fructans and neutralize phytic acid, which makes the nutrients more bioavailable and the bread more easily digested. The quick-rise yeast and other dough "enhancers" used in commercial bread don't allow time for that, so the fermentation that should have been done by natural yeasts and bacteria before baking happens in your gut instead, leading to bloating, gas, and inflammation.

 

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

I've just finished the scientific literature review for the application here in NZ to the Environmental Protection Authority to reassess glyphosate (Roundup herbicide) and potentially ban it. (My first big side hustle since starting to reorient my career after homeschooling). I summarized the impact to both the environment and human health, and the problems with the archaic assessment methodology they use which masks roundup's effects. 

In short, Roundup is used in the USA (and most countries) to dessicate wheat to make it easier to harvest. About 90% of the wheat crop in the USA is sprayed.  Because it is sprayed at harvest time (rather than during planting), glyphosate is definitely still in wheat when it is eaten (the half life is somewhere from 30 to 180 days, and that is HALF life). Glyphosate has been found the food we buy and in human gut, urine, and feces. Glyphosate is not denatured by cooking. Glyphosate kills not only plants but also kills bacteria, including the microbiome in the human gut.

So if you are having trouble with wheat, it could be because your gut bacteria cannot tolerate the impact of glyphosate. After doing this work, I have switched to organic wheat for my family.

Did the study look at colon (and/or other GI) cancer correlation? Because eating that stuff for years…😳

[kokotg]

Oh, gluten. We've been back and forth on it for years. We originally did gluten free trials mostly because of my husband's psoriasis, with a side dose of one kid's asthma. We're kind of an auto-immune mess around here (asthma kid outgrew his asthma but now has psoriasis). Didn't seem to help significantly with either of THOSE things, but it sure seemed to help with a different kid's rage/emotional regulation issues. Huh. We thought. THAT kid now (as an adult) eats gluten with no apparent problems, but now we have another kid who seems a lot more in control of his temper when he's off gluten. We're experimenting with adding it back in right now, because it sure is a pain to avoid it. I alternate between being sure I must be imagining it and being positive I'm not and that life is an awful lot easier when we keep him off it. So I have no idea. Basically. I'm pretty skeptical in general, and I also like feeding kids to be easy, so I don't think I'm really the sort of person who would imagine it. I don't notice any difference myself eating/not eating gluten. The pesticide thing is very interesting...although only doing organic wheat wouldn't help much with my main problems with avoiding gluten, which is dealing with eating out without it being a big PITA.

[maize]

Several of my siblings are gluten free, they feel much better in general when they don't eat gluten. I tried eating gluten free and didn't notice any significant difference in my health.

Interestingly, 23andMe now recognizes a "more likely to have celiac disease" genetic marker. I don't have it, but my siblings who react to gluten do. We found out about the marker years after figuring out that some of us react badly to gluten and others don't.  

[maize]

2 hours ago, lewelma said:

I've just finished the scientific literature review for the application here in NZ to the Environmental Protection Authority to reassess glyphosate (Roundup herbicide) and potentially ban it. (My first big side hustle since starting to reorient my career after homeschooling). I summarized the impact to both the environment and human health, and the problems with the archaic assessment methodology they use which masks roundup's effects. 

In short, Roundup is used in the USA (and most countries) to dessicate wheat to make it easier to harvest. About 90% of the wheat crop in the USA is sprayed.  Because it is sprayed at harvest time (rather than during planting), glyphosate is definitely still in wheat when it is eaten (the half life is somewhere from 30 to 180 days, and that is HALF life). Glyphosate has been found the food we buy and in human gut, urine, and feces. Glyphosate is not denatured by cooking. Glyphosate kills not only plants but also kills bacteria, including the microbiome in the human gut.

So if you are having trouble with wheat, it could be because your gut bacteria cannot tolerate the impact of glyphosate. After doing this work, I have switched to organic wheat for my family.

This is why I now buy only organic bread.

[prairiewindmomma]

A general heads up that glyphosate is often sprayed onto beans and other legumes as well. If you buy dried beans in bulk, it’s something to watch out for.

[lewelma]

2 hours ago, Grace Hopper said:

Did the study look at colon (and/or other GI) cancer correlation? Because eating that stuff for years…😳

There is lots of data on cancer including colon/GI, but the relationship it is not super clear because of the time delay between consumption and cancer. Basically, some studies find Yes, and other find No for cancer. However, it is absolutely Yes that if you eat traditionally grown wheat, you eat glyphosate, and it is absolutely YES that it kills your gut bacteria because it is a biocide - it kills plants and bacteria by design. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by lewelma

[lewelma]

26 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

A general heads up that glyphosate is often sprayed onto beans and other legumes as well. If you buy dried beans in bulk, it’s something to watch out for.

The top crops that use glyphosate in the USA are:

Corn, soy, canola, and sugar beet. This is because they are "roundup ready" GE crops so they spray the crop without worry because the crops are immune. This means they use LOTs of glyphosate.

And wheat. It is not GE, but they use it to dessicate the crop.

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by lewelma

[lewelma]

16 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

A general heads up that glyphosate is often sprayed onto beans and other legumes as well. If you buy dried beans in bulk, it’s something to watch out for.

Half life is 30 to 180 days (depending on all sorts of stuff). So the longer it stays on your shelf before you use it, the less you are eating. So leave dried beans in your cupboard for a year before use.

[popmom]

18 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Half life is 30 to 180 days (depending on all sorts of stuff). So the longer it stays on your shelf before you use it, the less you are eating. So leave dried beans in your cupboard for a year before use.

What about canned beans? Same thing? I am so glad legumes came up. I knew about the wheat and only buy organic wheatberries. But I hadn't even thought about beans. 😞I think I worry more about my kids now. Round Up wasn't being used widely when I was growing up. My own kids grew up eating this crap. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by popmom

[prairiewindmomma]

4 minutes ago, popmom said:

What about canned beans? Same thing? I am so glad legumes came up. I knew about the wheat and only buy organic wheatberries. But I hadn't even thought about beans. 😞I think I worry more about my kids now. Round Up wasn't being used widely when I was growing up. My own kids grew up eating this crap. 

Yes. It’s there. Hummus, cheerios, protein bars…it has shown up everywhere in testing. 

[lewelma]

5 minutes ago, popmom said:

What about canned beans? Same thing? I am so glad legumes came up. I knew about the wheat and only buy organic wheatberries. But I hadn't even thought about beans. 😞

I don't know about beans. Just that if you are worried, store them for a while before using. Roundup-ready crops are the ones I listed: corn, wheat, canola, sugar beet, and soy. (plus cotton and alfalfa which we don't eat. Alfalfa is used for feed, so humans not eating it directly so the half life can make it disappear).

Basically, if it is Roundup-ready, they don't have to worry about how much they spray because the crop is immune. But if it is not Roundup-ready, they have to be careful with spraying weeds, because if they spray the crop, the crop will die. So basically, they use way less glyphosate on the non-Roundup-ready crops. They still use it, and you are likely eating it, but just way way less compared to the biggies of wheat and roundup ready crops. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by lewelma

[popmom]

9 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I don't know about beans. Just that if you are worried, store them for a while before using. Roundup-ready crops are the ones I listed: corn, wheat, canola, sugar beet, and soy. (plus cotton and alfalfa which we don't eat. Alfalfa is used for feed, so humans not eating it directly so the half life can make it disappear).

Basically, if it is Roundup-ready, they don't have to worry about how much they spray because the crop is immune. But if it is not Roundup-ready, they have to be careful with spraying weeds, because if they spray the crop, the crop will die. So basically, they use way less glyphosate on the non-Roundup-ready crops. 

Thanks. Just today I added organic whole corn to my Azure Standard order for this month. I am so glad now. I will be milling my own corn meal and grits. I thought I was doing it for the nutrients (and avoiding pesticides of course). Never even thought about glyphosate.

How depressing.

Edited November 3, 2023 by popmom

[lewelma]

3 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Yes. It’s there. Hummus, cheerios, protein bars…it has shown up everywhere in testing. 

Plus drinking water and dust in the air.  You are not escaping glyphosate, but you can reduce exposure. 

[lewelma]

6 minutes ago, popmom said:

Thanks. Just today I added organic whole corn to my Azure Standard order for this month. I am so glad now. I will be milling my own corn meal and grits. 

After all the research I did (I read about 500 articles out of the 50,000 available), I went and looked at Maseca masa. I can't eat wheat, so eat corn masa. Maseca is a Mexican (but also international) company, and GE corn in Mexico is illegal. So I was hoping they were sourcing their corn from Mexico so it was not roundup ready. But it is really hard to tell, unfortunately. They do say they source some corn from the USA but they claim they use the non roundup ready corn crop. But roundup ready corn in the USA is about 98% of all corn, so I kind of doubt their claim.

Edited November 3, 2023 by lewelma

[popmom]

2 minutes ago, lewelma said:

After all the research I did, I went and looked at Maseca masa. I can't eat wheat, so eat corn masa. Maseca is a Mexican (but also international) company, and GE corn in Mexico is illegal. So I was hoping they were sourcing their corn from Mexico so it was not roundup ready. But it is really hard to tell, unfortunately. They do say they source some corn from the USA but they claim they use the non roundup ready corn crop. But roundup ready corn in the USA is about 98% of all corn, so I kind of doubt their claim.

Wait...So does this mean that the organic label means nothing? Because it is not technically a pesticide?

Edited November 3, 2023 by popmom

[lewelma]

Just now, popmom said:

Wait...So does this mean that the organic label means nothing? 

I don't know about the organic label in the USA. 98% of corn in the USA is roundup ready, but that leaves 2% for organic. That is totally possible. Organic in NZ is not GE by definition, and roundup ready is one type of GE.