Are we unreasonable?

[Calizzy]

FIL is turning 70 in April. Dh is from a family with 5 kids- 2 are in the midwest, 3 are in Idaho. FIL is in midwest. Dh is the oldest and wanted to take his father to a Boston Redsox baseball game for a birthday weekend getaway. He invited his siblings but asked for it to be siblings only- no spouses. That way they can rent an Airbnb and all spend the weekend together. The siblings are all pushing back that they want to bring spouses. It's a long flight from Idaho and to get their $ worth they want to make it a vacation. Dh said, "That's the point. It's not a vacation for you and your spouse, it's about dad." 

1st question- would you find it unreasonable to be asked not to bring your spouse?

2nd question- if that is what they want to do, dh wants to not be involved and just take the trip alone with his dad. The whole thing was his idea. How does he get out of this?

[mommyoffive]

Who is paying?  I think if you and your dh are paying then that would impact my thoughts.

Without knowing that I don't think anyone is unreasonable really.  I can get why they would want to bring a spouse but then also get the reason to limit it to a smaller amount of people.  Finding an Airbnb for 7 or more people is harder and $$$.  So I don't think you are unreasonable to ask to not bring a spouse but I get why that might upset people too. 

If you want to get out of it and you haven't paid for things yet just send an email and say your plans changed and are doing it this way now.

[itsheresomewhere]

Not unreasonable in what you said to me.  

[Junie]

If it were my birthday celebration, I would want my daughter-in-law and son-in-law included.

[Harriet Vane]

Not unreasonable. The only way out of this is with unflinching honesty. Keep it calm. Be prepared to repeat. Set the boundary and let the chips fall where they may.

It can also help to affirm a zillion times that dh loves all the people.

[Harriet Vane]

One thought to add--I adore my son-in-law and my daughter-in-law and feel like we hit the jackpot with them. But I know how very, very much I would treasure time just with my daughter and son. 

[Calizzy]

The main reason for not wanting spouses is that it makes the group 10 people- which is hard for an airbnb in boston. Also, the siblings are pretty independent and wander off alone a lot. It was going to be a quick 3 or 4 day trip and accommodating 10 people- what attractions do you want to see, where do you want to go for lunch, etc. Seems more likely that people will split up. 

Honestly, Dh would rather go alone with his dad. He was trying to be nice by inviting siblings. 

[Lecka]

Of course your dh is the oldest.  

I think it’s not unreasonable what he wants to do, but also not unreasonable for other people to want to adjust the plans.  

I don’t think that just because one person is “the inviter” that there can’t be some openness about what works for the whole group.

 

 

 

 

[Frances]

I think I would just have him take his dad alone and let another sibling plan the big family birthday event/trip that involves everyone who wants to attend.

Personally, I’d be fine with just my husband going, but then we aren’t particularly close with his family. I wouldn’t want to fly all the way across the country for just a long weekend, so I’d happily let him go on his own. 

 

[Arcadia]

My husband would want to bring me and kids along, book our own hotel room near the airbnb, and my husband would join his siblings in whatever planned activity for his dad and siblings. That way my kids and I can go and do whatever we want to do and my husband can join us after the weekend getaway for a family vacation.
Given that my in-laws don’t like me much due to favoritism, I am happy to not have to show up (17hrs flight) for FIL’s 80th birthday.  

Edited October 30, 2023 by Arcadia
typo

[Lecka]

If the invitation is already made, I think it would be rude.  
 

I would think people would need to make their  own arrangements for an Air B and B etc, I don’t think it’s fair to put all the planning on one person.

 

But if other people want to get a second B and B, or some couples want to stay in a hotel and not with the other siblings, I think that’s reasonable.  
 

This is pushing all my buttons of “guess what I’m 45 years old, don’t be so bossy, or if you’re going to be bossy, don’t be surprised people don’t want to go along with every detail.”  

[Lecka]

At the same time, I think your husband should be free to not take on more than he wants to, if other people expect him to manage and arrange everything.  
 

I think he should be free to focus on spending time with his dad and not worry about what his siblings are doing.  
 

Edit:  there’s a lot of additional context that could make me think the siblings are totally unreasonable and expect way too much from your husband, with way too little consideration for him.  
 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Lecka

[EKS]

My answer to the first question is that I don't think it's unreasonable at all.

That said, I don't have siblings, so what do I know?

[Corraleno]

I don't think your DH's request is unreasonable, but I also don't think that the siblings' wanting to bring their spouses is unreasonable either. Unless the issue is that the siblings are expecting your DH to foot the bill for everyone, I think it's rude to tell his siblings what they can or can't do for their dad's birthday. Is there any reason to believe that his dad would absolutely not want the spouses there, or is it just that your DH doesn't want them there? If he really doesn't want to deal with the spouses, then he can go on his own, but IMO that seems kind of petty and a bit spiteful, like he didn't get his way so he's just taking his ball and going home.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Corraleno

[Grace Hopper]

55 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

One thought to add--I adore my son-in-law and my daughter-in-law and feel like we hit the jackpot with them. But I know how very, very much I would treasure time just with my daughter and son. 

I feel the same way about my kids’ spouses, love them tremendously! However, the dynamics are different when it’s a reunion of the small nuclear family. My dh gets together with his in town sibs and folks regularly without me/other spouses, and when his out of town sibs come to visit, at least part of their time together is with just their nuclear knot. I do not begrudge their time together at all. 
 

It’s easy because we live in town. However, if my dh came to me and said he and his sibs wanted to do a trip as your dh is suggesting, while I’d probably be fine with it, the destination, amount of time, and cost might give me more to think about!

I do agree with what someone said upthread - a group vacation is really a different thing than what was originally proposed. And would probably be a fun thing to plan…. some time. Your dh can let them get busy on that while he enjoys a Boston baseball game with his dad. Yes, making sure that his pop gets his quality time. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Grace Hopper

[Grace Hopper]

To clarify, imo I think of this like a birthday party invitation. The host has a guest list. Invited guests can choose to accept or decline the invite. It’s not really polite for the invited guests to bring a bunch of not invited people and go changing all the party plans made by the host. (Yes I’m oversimplifying, I know.)
 

So I think it’s probably much in the way of how it was proposed in the first place, whether he shared his specific idea or just tossed out a loose plan. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Grace Hopper

[Lecka]

To me, the original trip is a group vacation, too.  It’s still a group, it’s still a vacation.  
 

I don’t think there’s anything intrinsic to the original idea that couldn’t be flexible to include looking a different way.  
 

I think maybe your dad could say — he is just going to get an air b and b with dad, let everyone else make their own arrangements, have a date he’s going to buy tickets and they need to have sent him money before that date if they want to be in on it.  Then see how things work out and make some more plans later on in the process.  I think if he wants to say he wants the baseball game to be siblings only, that’s fair.  To me, that would be reasonable at this point, as an example of something I think would be reasonable.  

[matrips]

1 hour ago, Calizzy said:

FIL is turning 70 in April. Dh is from a family with 5 kids- 2 are in the midwest, 3 are in Idaho. FIL is in midwest. Dh is the oldest and wanted to take his father to a Boston Redsox baseball game for a birthday weekend getaway. He invited his siblings but asked for it to be siblings only- no spouses. That way they can rent an Airbnb and all spend the weekend together. The siblings are all pushing back that they want to bring spouses. It's a long flight from Idaho and to get their $ worth they want to make it a vacation. Dh said, "That's the point. It's not a vacation for you and your spouse, it's about dad." 

1st question- would you find it unreasonable to be asked not to bring your spouse?

2nd question- if that is what they want to do, dh wants to not be involved and just take the trip alone with his dad. The whole thing was his idea. How does he get out of this?

1- not unreasonable to ask, but also not unreasonable for them to want to bring their spouses especially if the money is coming out of the family bacation budget and it’s using vacation days.

2– I would suggest dh just say- I understand, it’s not a great idea. We’ll do a local party that all can attend. And then at a later point, do his own thing with dad.

[Lecka]

I can understand thinking of it like a birthday invitation, but I don’t think this is comparable.  
 

This is a level of planning/commitment that would naturally invite the input of various people involved.  
 

It’s not a level of planning/commitment that would naturally obligate the guest to be pleasant and accommodating to the host.  
 

I don’t see the inviter as the host, basically.  I don’t think it’s a host/guest situation.  

[Lecka]

I think changing to “let’s do a birthday party” is a great option.  

[Lecka]

I don’t know if the dad has any preferences.  It can be hard to know sometimes, I think parents can not want to get into the middle of things sometimes, they can’t win, lol.  
 

At this point if it ends up that some siblings make plans to go to Boston, the dad is free to go to Boston, too.  
 

If the plan is already out there and people are making serious plans — that is the situation.

 

If people are just talking and not making serious plans or arrangements, then that is the situation.  
 

 

[sassenach]

It's a little unreasonable to want it to be all or nothing, imo. (and as a parent, I would take all over nothing)

If it's not possible to find an accommodations that work for a larger group, then split it up and the people bringing spouses can get a hotel. 

 

[Grace Hopper]

14 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I can understand thinking of it like a birthday invitation, but I don’t think this is comparable.  
 

This is a level of planning/commitment that would naturally invite the input of various people involved.  
 

It’s not a level of planning/commitment that would naturally obligate the guest to be pleasant and accommodating to the host.  
 

I don’t see the inviter as the host, basically.  I don’t think it’s a host/guest situation.  

Well I have another example for you then: destination wedding where kids aren’t invited 
 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Grace Hopper

[Frances]

21 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

To clarify, imo I think of this like a birthday party invitation. The host has a guest list. Invited guests can choose to accept or decline the invite. It’s not really polite for the invited guests to bring a bunch of not invited people and go changing all the party plans made by the host. (Yes I’m oversimplifying, I know.)
 

So I think it’s probably much in the way of how it was proposed in the first place, whether he shared his specific idea or just tossed out a loose plan. 

But with a birthday party, the host is usually paying for everything. I don’t get the impression that is the case with this birthday plan.

[Frances]

2 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Well I have another example for you then: destination wedding. 

It just doesn’t seem comparable because in this case, it appears everyone is paying their own way and are not attending an event hosted and paid for by anyone except the entire group of siblings all paying for everything.

[Shoeless]

Has anyone asked FIL what he wants?  

Edited October 30, 2023 by Shoeless

[Clarita]

From the post I get the impression that everyone is paying their own way, if they aren't then my opinion changes.

I think it would be reasonable to say for the game it's just the siblings but for the vacation spouses/families can come. I think it's reasonable to say if people decide to bring a spouse they have to figure out their own living situation on the vacation, since the AirBnB no longer works. 

30 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Well I have another example for you then: destination wedding where kids aren’t invited 

In the case of a destination wedding usually the kids are just not invited to the event(s) not to the vacation. So, I can bring my family to the vacation I just have to figure out care for my children during the event(s).

[Arcadia]

40 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Well I have another example for you then: destination wedding where kids aren’t invited 
 

 

The one inviting is OP’s husband though and not the FIL. If my in-laws said they want a private event with their children only, that would be different. 

[KungFuPanda]

If the siblings are all getting their own beds, does it matter if their spouse is in it with them or not?  It’s the number of beds that determine accommodations and finding beds for four people can be the same as finding beds for four couples. Maybe the husband should get a hotel with Dad and invite siblings to make their own arrangements if they wanna attend. Then he avoids the inevitable grumbling from the sibling who gets the sofa bed. Or maybe he can organize the singles condo and let the couples plan their own. 
 

I wouldn’t want to apply a level of micromanagement that goes beyond assuring Dad has a good time. It would be stressful to him to see adults squabbling like kids.

[KungFuPanda]

3 hours ago, Clarita said:

From the post I get the impression that everyone is paying their own way, if they aren't then my opinion changes.

I think it would be reasonable to say for the game it's just the siblings but for the vacation spouses/families can come. I think it's reasonable to say if people decide to bring a spouse they have to figure out their own living situation on the vacation, since the AirBnB no longer works. 

In the case of a destination wedding usually the kids are just not invited to the event(s) not to the vacation. So, I can bring my family to the vacation I just have to figure out care for my children during the event(s).

I think “siblings only for the game” would be the most unreasonable request of all. There are a gazillion people in the stadium but we’re gonna specifically exclude these three relatives? That feels way more petty than limiting the number of bodies in an air bnb.

[Laura Corin]

I have found that, with my siblings,  deciding things about my parents and then presenting a fait accompli never ends well. I would apologise for being bossy and start over with, What shall we do for Dad's birthday? 

[Carrie12345]

49 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

I have found that, with my siblings,  deciding things about my parents and then presenting a fait accompli never ends well. I would apologise for being bossy and start over with, What shall we do for Dad's birthday? 

This is how I would (and basically did) approach it. Mom just had a big birthday milestone and was (supposed to be) retiring. Even though I don’t speak to one sister, I called the other and threw out some ideas. It wouldn’t cross my mind to tell them I was doing something for mom and they could join me if they felt like it.

Circumstances later caused us to shift plans, but it was still a sibling group effort.

If I did want to do something on my own with Mom, I would have presented that as her birthday gift, to be done afterward. 

[Elizabeth86]

I say it’s not unreasonable giving the reasons they gave. I’d certainly give dh my blessing to go. However, if it were me; I wouldn’t travel without dh. I’m a country girl that seldom leaves the country. Cities, navigating airports and public transportation is awful for my anxiety so I’d say no way without dh. 

[Katy]

I think this depends on family culture, but in many not inviting spouses is rude. Once you’re married or living together for more than 2 years, you’re a unit. For many people budgets are tight and they turn visiting family in another region into a vacation. In others with looser budgets travel isn’t a big deal and the spouses will go there several times a year, so one trip isn’t a big deal. 

[fairfarmhand]

I don't think either side is being unreasonable.

I can see both sides. My dh would not spend $$$ on a flight and such and his time off of work is so limited, that he would probably want to bring me and/or me and the kids along.

However, I can definitely see the logistics issue being so very complicated.

I think your dh should say "I love you guys all so much but this trip is turning into something that is not what I had in mind. So I'll just go with Dad and it really is ok." On a phone call, with a loving, cheerful tone. (because email and text can be misread and your dh doesn't want to come off as pouty/disgruntled.)

[Clemsondana]

I think that an event that Is just a parent and kids could be really special. At the same time, if spouse had limited vacation days or budget and chose to spend a good fraction of it without me I could see being frustrated.  Some people only get 10 days and end up using several for local stuff with their kids, for instance. Its hard for us to know their circumstances. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Clemsondana

[SKL]

I don't think it's unreasonable, but I would have tried to find gentler words such as "I totally understand if you can't make it.  I wasn't thinking in terms of making it a family vacation, just a quick trip for dad and any of his kids wanting to participate."

I think it's up to each family whether or not their spouses and kids travel with them.  You are under no obligation to plan activities or accommodations beyond what you originally signed up for, but your siblings can plan their own.  They could also stay in the city longer than you and your dad if they want.  It's a free country.  🙂

Edited October 30, 2023 by SKL

[Faith-manor]

I think that the other siblings probably feel like your dh has taken over the "what to do for dad's birthday" planning without consulting them,  made the plan, set the rules, and they feel very left out. What he should have done was decide that his gift to his father was taking him to the game, called dad, decided on dates and game, and then executed but not on or over the birthday itself so that the other siblings had the option to have a party or take him out to eat or something. His big mistake was he wanted to do this for his dad as a gift, did not want to pay for anyone else to go along, but still announced this is what was going to be dad's birthday and then put up the restriction which is pretty controlling and not taking anyone else's feelings into consideration.

He needs to call everyone up. Apologize. Then say that he should never have brought it up and just done it alone as his gift to his father because he cannot afford to buy everyone else a vacation, and since he can't pay for everyone, he shouldn't have invited them but then dictated what they can and cannot do with their own money which is just really offensive.

If he was going to pay for he and his dad's flights, ticksts, AirBnB, and food, then he should have said that and said "I am renting an AirBnB and there will be room for up to 8 more people. While I can cover accommodation for 8, I cannot cover more than that so if you want to take any other family members, you will need to make your own hotel reservations and pay for them because it just isn't in my budget to do it for more people. Then let the chips fall where they fall. He doesn't have the right to control everyone else, and shouldn't expect anyone to be happy about him attempting to dictate this.

Word to the wise. Never invite people to an event out of misplaced feelings of obligation and then get upset when the people invited take you up on it. The reality is that your dh didn't want anything of them to come so he should never have extended the invitation. There was nothing wrong with him choosing to do this for his dad, alone.

 

[catz]

If they are expected to front money for an event, flights, room, tickets, I don’t think it is unreasonable they are going to have an opinion.   And I don’t think wanting to  make it into a family vacation is unreasonable for a family with limited vacation time and money.  I only have 1 sibling that I have a somewhat tenuous relationship with and neither of us would do this.   We would plan together.   My DH has a sister in a sibling group of 4.    She is the oldest and does dictate from on high occasionally.   And we do get irritated with some of that.  Sometimes we push back or don’t participate.  I’ve been the family black sheep at times for not jumping when she says to do so.  
 

i don’t consider this equivalent to a destination wedding.  A baseball game is a public event and you can’t dictate if kids come, you make a vacation of it and just don’t attend a private event.   And I actually think inviting some people with zero thought on their circumstances may be rude anyway.  Like if you had a young nursing infant and your entire family was going to be at the event.   It used to be that a wedding was to bring family together and to host a warm family event.   Not to create expensive and difficult demands on close family and say take it or leave it.  
 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by catz

[LuvToRead]

3 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

This is how I would (and basically did) approach it. Mom just had a big birthday milestone and was (supposed to be) retiring. Even though I don’t speak to one sister, I called the other and threw out some ideas. It wouldn’t cross my mind to tell them I was doing something for mom and they could join me if they felt like it.

Circumstances later caused us to shift plans, but it was still a sibling group effort.

If I did want to do something on my own with Mom, I would have presented that as her birthday gift, to be done afterward. 

This is how I feel.  There is a difference in "this is what I'm giving dad for his birthday" vs "this is how we are celebrating dad's birthday"   I'm not sure how one sibling gets to decide how the entire birthday will be celebrated.  I only have one sister and we get along so these kinds of things are easy, but DH is from a large family and it's never just one person who decides how milestones are celebrated.  I think a small B&B with the OP's DH and dad is fine and everyone else who wants to come can find their own accommodations.  You can't actually require spouses to stay home, but you don't have to invite them to stay with you.

[Meriwether]

I think it was fine. It is also fine if some choose not to come. As an aside because I know you were limiting the party due to size of places to rent and not to specifically get the FOO together, but I'd love if my brother wanted to do something for my dad and invited just my sister and me (although I would want my mom along in that case) to come along. And I'd also love it if one of the kids in my Dh's FOO would organize something for just their siblings to do. We, my parents and my siblings, spent just a couple of hours alone together at my grandmother's wedding and it was a very special time. It is too hard to get together with my brother due to life circumstances, but I'm going to see if Dh would like to do something with his FOO this summer.

[LuvToRead]

I too agree this isn't the same as a destination wedding.  Just because kids aren't invited to the wedding doesn't mean kids aren't allowed to the destination.

[Calizzy]

It has been FIL's dream to go to a Red Sox game for 20 years. They were in Boston in 2004 when they won the World Series after the 86 year curse but couldn't get tickets. So it's not really a "what should we do for dad's bday" situation. It was a "this is what I am doing and I'm opening the invitation if you want to come with us." 

Dh's clarified with his siblings that he IS doing this with dad for his birthday. You are welcome to plan a different party on your own if this is not what you want to do. If you don't want to come without your spouse- that is fine, no hard feelings. His brother has responded "You're giving us an ultimatum- just like mom always does."

[marbel]

I'm sorry it's not working out the way your DH hoped/expected. It does no good to say what he should have done in the first place. If it was my husband, I would suggest he apologize for taking over, and tell the sibs that he knows Dad would love to go to a Red Sox game and he wants to make that happen for him but it's getting too complicated. I mean, even buying tickets to the game itself seems complicated if he would be trying to buy a block together. 

I do understand the desire to be just family of origin together, no spouses/kids, just siblings and parent. Unfortunately often that is impractical for all the reasons people stated. 

I hope he can work it out to everyone's satisfaction or at least so there are no hard feelings. 💗

[kirstenhill]

I think the other difference between this and a destination wedding is with a wedding, the people who want to be celebrated (the couple) are doing the inviting, and they basically can say who they want to attend (but I agree, they really can't say who else can fly to the destination unless they are buying everyone's plane tickets!).   In this case the person being celebrated (FIL) is not the one making the request, so it does seem more controlling to have the person planning the event (who wasn't offering to pay for everyone he invited) control who comes to the destination.  If FIL wanted to have only his kids on the trip and no spouses, that would be totally different.

On the other hand, it is kind of rude for the other siblings to demand that DH find accommodations to fit everyone who wants to come.  It would be absolutely fair to say, "I've found a place for 5, who wants to stay with me".    But also fair for sibs to say, my wife/kids want to come to Boston too, we'll get our own place.  I don't see how DH can dictate who takes a trip at the same time as this baseball game.

I think ultimately if there was no flexibility in the plans, it would have been better to either just invite FIL to a trip and a game alone (unless he can pay for everyone - then it is the payer's prerogative). 

I think I would be a little miffed if one of DH's siblings planned a trip and put such tight parameters on it.  It's hard enough for holidays, where sometimes family members will have very limited availability and a family member says, "It's celebrate on December 25th or nothing".  We are just having to choose between our special nuclear family celebration (could be held on a different day), and seeing extended family.  With vacation time, it might be the difference of getting to take a whole family vacation or not that year if there was an extra request for DH to take a trip without us.   Vacation time is limited for most people.

[Harriet Vane]

50 minutes ago, Calizzy said:

It has been FIL's dream to go to a Red Sox game for 20 years. They were in Boston in 2004 when they won the World Series after the 86 year curse but couldn't get tickets. So it's not really a "what should we do for dad's bday" situation. It was a "this is what I am doing and I'm opening the invitation if you want to come with us." 

Dh's clarified with his siblings that he IS doing this with dad for his birthday. You are welcome to plan a different party on your own if this is not what you want to do. If you don't want to come without your spouse- that is fine, no hard feelings. His brother has responded "You're giving us an ultimatum- just like mom always does."

I think your dh is fine. No fair for his brother to throw down mom like that.

[Lecka]

Wow, I’m sorry it’s working out this way.  It sounds like your husband’s heart was really in the right place!  

[catz]

I’m sure intentions are in the right place. 

But is dads dream attending the game.  Or is dads dream the attend a game and stay in an air b&b just with his own kids for the weekend and nothing else would do?  Because I can see why throwing this back in the face of siblings as “dad’s dream” to do it this exact way could feel like a slap in the face for people trying to balance wanting to celebrate dad in this way and not being at a place in life where it is easy to fly across the country alone for the weekend.  Had (if?) Op been paying for the whole thing, I think that is different.   

[Bootsie]

I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest a father-child only trip for dad's birthday.  But, I do think it is unreasonable to expect all of the families to go along with the idea in the original format if that does not meet with their own family cultures and financial planning.  Not all of the families may be able to prioritize a plane ticket, a baseball game ticket, accommodations, time away from work/family obligations for this idea and I think that should be repsected.  

[Spryte]

Going on the assumption that everyone is paying their own way, and the invite is a “come join us if you can” type invite:

I’m going to be one of the lone unreasonable people and say — my family would not be represented at a major event where one of us is not welcome. My skipping the game itself would be NBD, if FIL’s dream was to attend with only his kids, but a trip, etc — no. 

Neither DH nor I would be on board with flying and a vacation without the other. DH travels *a lot* for work, and I used to be the spouse who would say, “Oh, you’ve never been to X city, take a few extra days to sight see!” But no more. It’s a lot of extra work for me when he’s gone, a lot of money we’d otherwise spend on something for the family, and vacation time — those are family resources, and so the gift to the FIL is much bigger than a game. Will the spouses even get a “thank you” for making this possible? We’ve done our time apart and I want to be with him now. He says the same. So, nope, we’d only go if we were both welcome. Invitations that exclude one or the other would be a “No thanks.”

That said, DH did take his dad to games, and on trips without me, and those memories are precious. So I’m all for OP’s DH doing those things, and anyone else doing those things, as a gift to their dad.