Am I the jerk? Not jawm

[Lisa]

No, not a jerk. Hugs!

[Corraleno]

Not a jerk! I'd be pissed that not only did SIL disrespect the wishes of the deceased, she conned your DH into paying for it with money he didn't have. So she made herself feel good, without lifting a finger or spending a dime, while making things worse for both the widower and your family. She's the jerk.

[Frances]

Not a jerk. If your SIL was healthy enough to send the text, she probably could have handled ordering the flowers and wind chime (never heard of that one before as a funeral gift) she wanted to give and then asked others to contribute or not.

But I do have a SIL story that tops this one. Unbeknownst to us, my MIL and SIL and her husband had been looking for over a year for ways for my MIL to move near them. While we always knew this would happen someday, we had absolutely no idea anything was actively being done until my husband got a phone call from his sister (only sibling) saying after looking extensively at apartments, senior living, houses, etc., they had found the perfect house just a block away from theirs and we would like to pay for half of it? While they knew all of the details of my MIL’s finances, they provided no information to us at all. And they also wanted us to pay for almost half of the extensive renovations they had already all decided were necessary. And if we didn’t pay half, then the entire house, including the small amount my MIL was paying towards remodeling and the monthly rent she would pay to them, would go to them and the house would be all theirs after she passed. Needless to say, we declined to get financially involved in such a situation where it was very clear that others were making all of the decisions from the other side of the country. We don’t care if they get everything when she passes. 

[Catwoman]

Honestly, I know a lot of people are saying that Saraha should just let this go, but if she does, it is just one more time that her DH is allowed to disrespect her with no consequences.

I would feel differently if the deceased was a close relative, but this is literally someone they barely knew. There was no reason for her dh to have spent money they don’t have in this particular instance, and I think saraha should insist that her dh get the money back from his sister. Why should saraha have to do without, when she never agreed to spend the money? 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Catwoman
At least there was only one typo this time (I hope)

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, Frances said:

Not a jerk. If your SIL was healthy enough to send the text, she probably could have handled ordering the flowers and wind chime (never heard of that one before as a funeral gift) she wanted to give and then asked others to contribute or not.

But I do have a SIL story that tops this one. Unbeknownst to us, my MIL and SIL and her husband had been looking for over a year for ways for my MIL to move near them. While we always knew this would happen someday, we had absolutely no idea anything was actively being done until my husband got a phone call from his sister (only sibling) saying after looking extensively at apartments, senior living, houses, etc., they had found the perfect house just a block away from theirs and we would like to pay for half of it? While they knew all of the details of my MIL’s finances, they provided no information to us at all. And they also wanted us to pay for almost half of the extensive renovations they had already all decided were necessary. And if we didn’t pay half, then the entire house, including the small amount my MIL was paying towards remodeling and the monthly rent she would pay to them, would go to them and the house would be all theirs after she passed. Needless to say, we declined to get financially involved in such a situation where it was very clear that others were making all of the decisions from the other side of the country. We don’t care if they get everything when she passes. 

Your SIL sounds super nice. You must just love her. 🤬

Thank goodness you and your DH were both on the same page!

[BusyMom5]

Your posts paint a very clear picture of the roll each person plays.  Once again every person played their part to perfection.   

SIL bosses and demands, and your DH follows her orders.  This pattern was set when they were little and no one had broken the cycle.  This is what you are mad about.  It isn't about money or wind chimes- those are physical representations of this family dynamic that you see hurts your husband.  If you want your marriage to work,  you need to keep in mind who the real Villain of your story is.  Don't let her win.  

As for the wind chimes, after my FIL passed, we did like having the few little figurines and things given by close family in memory of him.  Not many people gave those types of gifts, but honestly they were better than live plants which have to be cared for (also got lots of those).  We still have them years later.  Since its their family,  I would just roll with whatever they thought.  I'm assuming the gift was as much from FIL and MIL than from the siblings.  

[Shelydon]

I would be FURIOUS if my DH spent $$$ without agreement from me.  What it was spent on would be irrelevant.  This would cause a come to Jesus meeting at my house.  If it was an ongoing issue, it would end in divorce. 

[Spryte]

I don’t think anyone is being a jerk, but it sounds like there wasn’t enough communication between you and DH about it. And I don’t think your DH should have covered the cost with a CC, for everyone else — if money is tight, have a different sibling front the cost. I’m so sorry he didn’t talk to you before doing that. Mostly this sounds like a loaded issue because baggage. His family, your past experience, all of it. 

I have some older family members who feel strongly that they need to be represented by flowers, at a funeral. It’s traditional and important to them. They are the types to send both flowers and a donation. It’s not meant to be disrespectful, it’s just their generation and doing what they know. Maybe your FIL is a person like that? (I, personally, would have made the donation and sent a sympathy card. However, I will say that when I arranged the memorial for a friend, in my 20s, and we specified donations to a scholarship in her name — I ended up feeling grateful to those older family members who sent both flowers and donations.They were beautiful. We didn’t take the flowers home, I don’t recall what we did with them, but we donated them to something.) Anyway, I think I’m trying to say that I don’t think there’s a wrong gift to give, though of course honoring wishes is important.

[fraidycat]

You are not a jerk.
 

I'm going to be the dissenter to the "sending flowers is fine" club. 

{Steps up on soapbox}

No, it really is not fine if a family specifically asks "in lieu". It means that they are already overwhelmed and dealing with 30 flower arrangements is too much.

If you can't donate to the charity of choice but want to give in some way,  send cash or a restaurant gift card or something useful. Please, if they request "in lieu" Do.Not.Send.Flowers. It may make YOU feel better, but it is directly disrespecting the wishes of the family.
 

{Steps down from soapbox}

 

[BakersDozen]

4 hours ago, barnwife said:

I mean, OTOH, what happened to "it's the thought that counts," being grateful for any gift, blah, blah, blah. Even for birthdays/Christmas/any other gift giving occasion, a person may certainly make requests, but a gift giver is free to spend their money on whatever they choose. Why is this situation any different?

Many years ago I got myself into some pretty hot water on this site because of this issue. It had to do w/gifts my dh was buying for me...only they were really for him and he was being super selfish (imo). For me, gifts are for the receiver - it should make the giver happy to gift someone with what that person needs/wants, not what the giver needs/wants to give. If that all made sense...

If someone specifically requests no flowers, then it's no flowers. Because if it's the thought that counts then, imo, the giver should be thoughtful and considerate if requests for/against gifts are made. Otherwise, it comes across (imo, again) as the giver thinking only of him/herself. 

[BakersDozen]

double post

Edited March 17, 2022 by BakersDozen

[Soror]

5 hours ago, fraidycat said:

You are not a jerk.
 

I'm going to be the dissenter to the "sending flowers is fine" club. 

{Steps up on soapbox}

No, it really is not fine if a family specifically asks "in lieu". It means that they are already overwhelmed and dealing with 30 flower arrangements is too much.

If you can't donate to the charity of choice but want to give in some way,  send cash or a restaurant gift card or something useful. Please, if they request "in lieu" Do.Not.Send.Flowers. It may make YOU feel better, but it is directly disrespecting the wishes of the family.
 

{Steps down from soapbox}

 

ITA with that. I think it is a jerk move to send something when it is specifically requested not to do that.

[Kassia]

53 minutes ago, Soror said:

ITA with that. I think it is a jerk move to send something when it is specifically requested not to do that.

I agree too.  It would upset me if I requested no flowers and people sent them anyway.  And if $130 is a lot of money in your situation (it is in our family) then I'd be upset about that too.  

You are definitely not the jerk. I'm sorry about it all.

[HomeAgain]

8 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Honestly, I know a lot of people are saying that Saraha should just let this go, but if she does, it is just one more time that her DH is allowed to disrespect her with no consequences.

I would feel differently if the deceased was a close relative, but this is literally someone they barely knew. There was no reason for her dh to have spent money they don’t have in this particular instance, and I think saraha should insist that her dh get the money back from his sister. Why should saraha have to do without, when she never agreed to spend the money? 

I don't think she should let it go.  I think she should form her actions out of what she thinks she needs from the outcome.

Dh used to pull this sort of thing when we were so broke we were buying gas with a credit card.  I'd turn around and he's spend on something he felt was "important" without ever talking to me about it.  It was infuriating because I was coming last in his mind and he had no idea the amount of stress he was putting on me and our budget.

Our solution was a little extreme, but it involved not fighting about it each time.  Instead I kept putting on that old Canadian show, Til Debt Do We Part, every week, until he started seeing us in the couples.  And then we started attacking finances for real because it finally got into his brain what he was doing. I couldn't keep going without a partner.  It was going to be that, or our eventual break up if he wouldn't put us first and think about long term us.

[Jenny in Florida]

13 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Not a jerk, but this was not disrespectful IMO.  Flowers in memory are always proper and appropriate.  Not everyone feels comfortable supporting a dog charity, and even if there is an expressed 'out' from sending flowers, that does not make it wrong to do so.

I'm going to disagree that flowers are "always" proper and appropriate. Personally, I hate cut flowers. My family knows this. It took me a few years to help my husband (who worked briefly for a florist and got a very nice discount) understand my feelings about this, but everyone who knows me well is aware that I find cut flowers -- and specifically watching them slowly die -- downright upsetting. (For the record, I also dislike receiving things like balloons for the same reason.)

Obviously, I won't be around for my funeral, but the idea that people would bring or send cut flowers to that event makes me upset in advance. And my close family members, I am 100% certain, will ask that no one do so and direct anyone who wishes to honor me to one of my favorite charities. Ignoring that request and bringing/sending something that would have negative associations for my surviving family members would be extremely inconsiderate.

[Jenny in Florida]

And, @saraha - Definitely not a jerk. I completely get why you are upset and why you needed to express your feelings to your husband. 

[Jenny in Florida]

7 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

Because if it's the thought that counts then, imo, the giver should be thoughtful and considerate if requests for/against gifts are made. Otherwise, it comes across (imo, again) as the giver thinking only of him/herself. 

I need an "Amen!" emoji.  🙌

[SKL]

I agree with asking SIL to share part of the cost of the flowers.  DH should ask her, unless he already told her she didn't have to pay.

[SKL]

About not having flowers at a funeral ....

Call me mean, but I think at least a couple close people should send or bring flowers.  Unless the deceased was an actual flower hater ....

I think when people are grieving, they aren't always thinking straight, and they may say/do "all or nothing" things that end up not being best in the big picture.

I understand not wanting to have to dispose of a gazillion flowers and plants on top of all the other troubles that losing a loved one brings.  So for me, it would depend on how close I was to the person.  If I was very close to the main mourners, I would probably make sure there were flowers at the funeral, and if necessary I'd take the flowers home myself rather than be a burden on the bereaved.

I did have one time when the "in lieu of" was a charity I refuse to support.  I don't remember what I did in that case.  But that's not relevant here, I don't think.

[fraidycat]

48 minutes ago, SKL said:

About not having flowers at a funeral ....

Call me mean, but I think at least a couple close people should send or bring flowers.  Unless the deceased was an actual flower hater ....

 

If they are close, they can ask the family directly if they can provide flowers for the funeral and offer to deal with them afterward. 

[dsmith]

You're not being a jerk and I think SIL should pay for half of the cost but I don't think it's something that should cause strife at home, it should be let go. And not everyone throws things out from the funeral. Our local funeral home donates whatever flowers are left to a local senior home, as long as they don't look like obvious funeral arrangements. I took home a beautiful plant from my dad's funeral and managed to keep it alive for 10 years, which is pretty amazing for me. And although many people ask for donations at funerals they do expect to receive flowers and plants, and many people look to make sure certain close relatives or employers have sent something. (I have seen and heard this at wakes, comments being made about someone not sending any flowers, family looking to see who sent what and being very appreciative for the kindness, even though donations were asked for.)

[livetoread]

Not really about the original topic, but what would make me haunt those who send flowers to my funeral is the ridiculous mark up. If someone wants to spend $10 at Trader Joes for a lovely bouquet and add a leftover vase, that would be one thing. Better yet, pick some from your garden. I like flowers, but $75 plus makes me enraged. The amounts of money expected to be spent during the whole funeral process is really something.

[Moonhawk]

Specifically about the idea of "is this reasonable to feel this way, vs am I just letting the past cloud my feelings?"

Well, yes, this specific instance is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, and yes, the past is coloring how you see it --> AND I THINK THAT IS APPROPRIATE. Context matters. In Context, This is a fairly big deal (to me), not something that should be poo poo'd with "Oh, but it's just flowers. It's just his family. You don't need to get emotionally involved about this."

There is an established pattern that you have a problem with, a pattern of disrespect for you (and in this case others: the widower), a pattern that puts hardship on you that is not your responsibility. It's not overreacting to realize that this incident is a continuation of the pattern.

And that's before we even touch the severity of the amount: $130! $130?! Like what?! That's  huge amount to me. An expensive wedding present for someone I've seen once in the past 5 years is going to be $50. For someone you had no relationship with, and it's done because an outsider said to do it, that isn't even directly the bereaved, and is in fact contrary to the bereaved wishes, and it's $130?! I'm in the same boat as you of "that'd have to go on the credit card", and my stressed out meter just went up, coincidentally, 130 points. I'm sorry that you have that now taking up already non-available stress bandwidth.

This would all be different if there were no past pattern of problematic prioritizing and if you guys were millionaires living on your yacht in Tahiti. But that's not the reality. Context matters. Don't let someone tell you it's not a big deal by saying that you should ignore the context.

This doesn't mean you have to go nuclear or anything, and I'm not trying to feed your anger, but I want to affirm that you don't have to minimize your emotions about it. 

[thewellerman]

I would be upset, but understanding.  After I got over the initial reaction, it would be upsetting to realize the level of recovery from family issues was lower than I thought or wanted to admit to myself.  So, I would try to play the long game.  $130 in the moment when we don't have it would be really hard, but a worthy expense to realize my husband still has a lot of hurt.  Sometimes, I think we can feel like a man who grew up a certain way should just suddenly stop being in that pattern, but when there is a lot of stress, it is really, really hard to break those cycles.  He probably has made a lot of progress over the years, and this instance tripped him up.  If he were your child, could have sympathy for the mistake?  Appreciation for the effort and struggle?  Now you know where he is and what he can manage, so now you know where the work is for the future.  I try to be a friend and supportive to my husband in these situations.  We aren't going to be a team, and neither of us will grow, if I drive a wedge with anger.  

Also, it sounds like you have a lot of emotion wrapped up in the circumstances with your dad's funeral, and you just have to try to separate that from this situation. 

I think there are at least 3 trigger points to your frustration.  1 is your past experiences which are causing embarrassment.  Your husband's choice to send flowers doesn't reflect on you, so you can let this go.  The second is the money.  I know it is tight, and I've known what tight is like, but if you have the credit card, this is isn't changing your monthly budget by much.  Yes, he will accrue interest, but it can be paid off over time.  If this is a card that has benefits if you always pay it off on time, then I would try really hard to find the money, even if it took a few months of using the card, to get back ahead.  If you use your grocery money to pay the card, then use the card to buy groceries after the payment clears.  Slowly, you can carefully ease off the card without having to find $130 right now.  The 3rd is lingering family issues.  These take time and steady work.  Getting mad or really upset isn't going to feel any less controlling to him than his sister.  You have to be different.  

No, you aren't being a jerk, and yes, he was wrong.  I just don't think fighting about it or being really upset about it is going to get you anywhere good.

[HS Mom in NC]

14 hours ago, barnwife said:

This seems...over the top.

I mean, OTOH, what happened to "it's the thought that counts," being grateful for any gift, blah, blah, blah. Even for birthdays/Christmas/any other gift giving occasion, a person may certainly make requests, but a gift giver is free to spend their money on whatever they choose. Why is this situation any different?

Because "It's the thought that counts" is dismissive if someone specified not getting something in particular and told you something else is better for them. I get "It's the thought that counts"  when there's no way to know what someone does or doesn't want.  It's only appropriate in that context-it isn't universally applicable.  No, no one has to be grateful at any gift.  Giving something that pleases the giver is rude and selfish when the receiver told you they don't want something. It only counts as thoughtful if actual thought was put into it. This is not one of those situations. People don't need to throw away a bunch of stuff they told you they don't want. That's something toxic people are famous for.

How many people say something along the lines of, "If there's anything I can do, let me know." in these situations, then someone specifically lets them know, and it's ignored and the asker does exactly the opposite.  That's just obnoxious.  

[barnwife]

27 minutes ago, HS Mom in NC said:

Because "It's the thought that counts" is dismissive if someone specified not getting something in particular and told you something else is better for them. I get "It's the thought that counts"  when there's no way to know what someone does or doesn't want.  It's only appropriate in that context-it isn't universally applicable.  No, no one has to be grateful at any gift.  Giving something that pleases the giver is rude and selfish when the receiver told you they don't want something. It only counts as thoughtful if actual thought was put into it. This is not one of those situations. People don't need to throw away a bunch of stuff they told you they don't want. That's something toxic people are famous for.

How many people say something along the lines of, "If there's anything I can do, let me know." in these situations, then someone specifically lets them know, and it's ignored and the asker does exactly the opposite.  That's just obnoxious.  

But maybe the thought was "hey, I've walked this road/a similar road and I said "no chocolate/flowers/dancing bears," but someone did it anyway and it ended up being a good thing. Now I want to pass that on..." Or "I just followed requests last time someone I know passed, an it turned out they actually were trying to be polite and did want flowers. So this time I'll do that." Maybe the giver is thinking "boy, that can't be what they really want. They are trying to be polite. So I'll go with these -insert whatever gift here- instead." Because  we all know there are people who don't say what they want/say what they think others want to hear. Why isn't that okay? Also, I hope everyone gets that the examples I gave are TIC, and I am not truly suggesting gifting anyone dancing bears.

FWIW, I definitely have people in my life that are not really thinking of me when they give gifts. One once asked me if I wanted a medication for an issue I don't have, which they know, as a gift. I declined, repeatedly. I am still slightly shocked it wasn't given to me that Christmas. They think they are, but most of the physical gifts from them end up straight in the donation pile, so I totally understand gifts like that. Other "gifts" from them fall into the obligation pile. I long ago made peace with it.

I just know I have no control over other people's actions. I can make requests; others can say no. Yes, even when it comes to gifts (funeral or not). I get that some (many?) see that as rude.

[saraha]

@Moonhawkthanks for expressing this in a way I cannot

@thewellermanthanks for reminding me that his reactions to his sister/family is a response to past treatment and not necessarily a choice

[Arcadia]

If the flowers and wind chime are from the SIL (just that OP’s husband is doing the buying and paying), then the person being rude would be the SIL.  SIL should reimburse her brother the full amount of $130. If SIL doesn’t pay up, that’s taking financial advantage of her brother.

If the SIL expect OP’s husband to co-share, then that’s emotional manipulation as well.

OP and her husband has ongoing financial arguments. That’s for them to thrash it out because it is going to be worse than the $130 as her husband’s parents age if her SIL is really manipulative. I was annoyed enough to tell my husband that he was satisfying his parents wants when our kids have some needs that aren’t met. 

[Katy]

14 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Honestly, I know a lot of people are saying that Saraha should just let this go, but if she does, it is just one more time that her DH is allowed to disrespect her with no consequences.

I would feel differently if the deceased was a close relative, but this is literally someone they barely knew. There was no reason for her dh to have spent money they don’t have in this particular instance, and I think saraha should insist that her dh get the money back from his sister. Why should saraha have to do without, when she never agreed to spend the money? 

I don’t know all of the family history, but my comment was because both DH & I have cousins we were close to as children that the other hasn’t met. We aren’t close as adults but we would still send something. If a spouse died we would say the other should do what we thought was best. And generally I think charity requests aren’t for family members, they are for acquaintances. 

If DH needs to stop his family over mine then that’s something to discuss, but a death in the family doesn’t seem like the time to do that when she’s aware her own past is making this whole situation triggering. And frankly how her family of origin handled uncomfortable death situations was also problematic in respect to boundaries. 

SIL sounds delightful but the way this has been handled isn’t the problem. Lack of boundaries and triggering painful memories is. I stand by letting this one go. And I issued an ultimatum about my MIL less than 24 hours after meeting her, before DH even proposed. I get the need for boundaries. I just don’t think funerals are the time for it. 

If DH spending money we don’t have for food or rent IS the problem I’d put the kids in school, get a job so we can eat, and prepare to leave him. Because spending money on SIL’s manipulation over what’s best for our family is completely unacceptable. But I don’t think that’s the case here. I think it’s anxiety and triggering. 

[prairiewindmomma]

To clarify, my “let this go” was in regard to this issue only because there are much bigger things in play…..namely the siblings and saraha are all providing nursing home level care to the in-laws and SIL is being her charming self in directing actions in that arena also. I think that (MIL is unable to manage affairs, FIL is slipping) is what triggered SIL to try to arrange a gift from FIL and family for the funeral. It’s still entirely possible that saraha’s family will be fully reimbursed for the gift. I do agree SIL should have done it herself but saraha’s husband chose to take that on. This may be a non-issue—which is why I advocated restraint because battles have to be chosen carefully in the greater war here.

Saraha, you can’t choose dh’s actions, but you can choose yours. You mentioned in a later post yesterday that you feel you don’t have much control over your life. Maybe that is a starting point? Do you know what kind of life you want to have and can you identify things you would shift so you were spending your time and energy the way you want to? 

[Jenny in Florida]

1 hour ago, barnwife said:

But maybe the thought was "hey, I've walked this road/a similar road and I said "no chocolate/flowers/dancing bears," but someone did it anyway and it ended up being a good thing. Now I want to pass that on..." Or "I just followed requests last time someone I know passed, an it turned out they actually were trying to be polite and did want flowers. So this time I'll do that." Maybe the giver is thinking "boy, that can't be what they really want. 

All of which is still about the giver's feelings/concerns/experiences and not about the receiver's. 

(Actually . . . I'm sorry, all. I clearly have a lot of big feelings and baggage about this, but I don't want to derail saraha's thread by continuing discussion of this side issue.)

Edited March 17, 2022 by Jenny in Florida

[SKL]

Speaking of the giver's own baggage, this reminds me of the time my brother asked his wife what she wanted for Christmas.  She said she really didn't want anything.  So he didn't buy her anything.  That happened exactly once.  😛

[barnwife]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Speaking of the giver's own baggage, this reminds me of the time my brother asked his wife what she wanted for Christmas.  She said she really didn't want anything.  So he didn't buy her anything.  That happened exactly once.  😛

But, according to other posters here, he didn't do anything wrong, right? I mean, giving her something for that Christmas would have been awful! He'd have been disregarding her wishes!!! How dare he!

(Please note that was written in my hard to see sarcasm font.)

And with that, I am going to let this thread return to its original point.

 

 

[HomeAgain]

3 minutes ago, barnwife said:

But, according to other posters here, he didn't do anything wrong, right? I mean, giving her something for that Christmas would have been awful! He'd have been disregarding her wishes!!! How dare he!

(Please note that was written in my hard to see sarcasm font.)

And with that, I am going to let this thread return to its original point.

 

 

I wouldn't fault anyone for taking words at face value.  The fault was all hers for not saying what she meant.

I tell dh I don't want anything for holidays all the time.  I mean it.  He often disregards it, but he knows that I really prefer not being celebrated or put on the spot and that I feel like gifts do that.

[fraidycat]

10 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

I wouldn't fault anyone for taking words at face value.  The fault was all hers for not saying what she meant.

 

QFT! If you want something, say what you want or say "surprise me". 

When I tell DH I don't want a (insert gifting occasion) gift, that is exactly what I mean. This year for my birthday, he asked what I wanted and I gave him an idea of something small (a hobby I'd like to try) if he wanted to get me something, but I also told him that I didn't need it and I am fine with not getting anything. I guess next week, I will find out if I am getting the item or nothing, but either way I am fine with whatever choice he makes because I gave two options and meant both of them.

If you want a gift, don't lie and say you don't want one then act like a jerk because the person believed your lie.

[Catwoman]

17 minutes ago, fraidycat said:

QFT! If you want something, say what you want or say "surprise me". 

When I tell DH I don't want a (insert gifting occasion) gift, that is exactly what I mean. This year for my birthday, he asked what I wanted and I gave him an idea of something small (a hobby I'd like to try) if he wanted to get me something, but I also told him that I didn't need it and I am fine with not getting anything. I guess next week, I will find out if I am getting the item or nothing, but either way I am fine with whatever choice he makes because I gave two options and meant both of them.

If you want a gift, don't lie and say you don't want one then act like a jerk because the person believed your lie.

Yes, if you expect a gift, it's so easy to say something like, "I don't have anything specific in mind, but I'm sure I'll love whatever you get me."  

[livetoread]

18 hours ago, barnwife said:

But, according to other posters here, he didn't do anything wrong, right? I mean, giving her something for that Christmas would have been awful! He'd have been disregarding her wishes!!! How dare he!

(Please note that was written in my hard to see sarcasm font.)

And with that, I am going to let this thread return to its original point.

 

 

He didn't do anything wrong, and he was respecting her wishes. She was wrong for telling him one thing and meaning another, and if I were him, I'd be sitting her down and having a clear heart to heart about communication. It wouldn't be "awful" if he got her something anyway every once in awhile, and it wouldn't be "awful" if he did it every time, but it would be unhealthy, imo.

 

[Catwoman]

@saraha -- Any updates? I hope you were able to get this straightened out with your dh!

[saraha]

Well, I won’t see him again til tonight. His approach has been I don’t want to talk about it. And he’s not asking anyone for money. Trying to decide if I want to push the issue or just let it go

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, saraha said:

Well, I won’t see him again til tonight. His approach has been I don’t want to talk about it. And he’s not asking anyone for money. Trying to decide if I want to push the issue or just let it go

Ugh! If it were me, I'd be telling him that if he didn't ask his sister for the money, I would, but I'm nervy and obnoxious like that.

I wouldn't be able to live with a spouse who said things like, "I don't want to talk about it," when it was about something I considered important. I have no patience for that kind of nonsense. I wish you and your dh could get on the same page with regards to his family, and his sister in particular.  He needs to prioritize you over her!

[KungFuPanda]

You're not the jerk.  I'm the jerk because I'd pay the CC off with grocery money and just make vegetarian meals and drink water until the budget recovered.  

[Corraleno]

55 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

You're not the jerk.  I'm the jerk because I'd pay the CC off with grocery money and just make vegetarian meals and drink water until the budget recovered.  

No joke, that is exactly what I would do. Unless there is a budget item of his (buying lunch every day or a weekly night out with the boys or something) that he's willing to give up until the CC is paid, then we'd be eating plain oatmeal for breakfast, PB&J for lunch, and beans and rice for dinner for the foreseeable future, so the consequences of spending his family's grocery money on appeasing a sibling's whim to send an expensive, unwanted gift are clearly visible to him. 

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

No joke, that is exactly what I would do. Unless there is a budget item of his (buying lunch every day or a weekly night out with the boys or something) that he's willing to give up until the CC is paid, then we'd be eating plain oatmeal for breakfast, PB&J for lunch, and beans and rice for dinner for the foreseeable future, so the consequences of spending his family's grocery money on appeasing a sibling's whim to send an expensive, unwanted gift are clearly visible to him. 

Exactly. The way I see it, if the consequences of disappointing his sister are greater than the consequences of disappointing his wife, he’s going to continue down the easiest path. 

[Matryoshka]

On 3/17/2022 at 3:32 PM, HomeAgain said:

I wouldn't fault anyone for taking words at face value.  The fault was all hers for not saying what she meant.

I tell dh I don't want anything for holidays all the time.  I mean it.  He often disregards it, but he knows that I really prefer not being celebrated or put on the spot and that I feel like gifts do that.

This is me too. I genuinely don't want gifts. They are *not* my love language. 

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

This is me too. I genuinely don't want gifts. They are *not* my love language. 

They're my love language -- can I have your gifts? 😉 

[Catwoman]

3 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

You're not the jerk.  I'm the jerk because I'd pay the CC off with grocery money and just make vegetarian meals and drink water until the budget recovered.  

 

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

No joke, that is exactly what I would do. Unless there is a budget item of his (buying lunch every day or a weekly night out with the boys or something) that he's willing to give up until the CC is paid, then we'd be eating plain oatmeal for breakfast, PB&J for lunch, and beans and rice for dinner for the foreseeable future, so the consequences of spending his family's grocery money on appeasing a sibling's whim to send an expensive, unwanted gift are clearly visible to him. 

 

10 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Exactly. The way I see it, if the consequences of disappointing his sister are greater than the consequences of disappointing his wife, he’s going to continue down the easiest path. 

Not me.

I agree that he needs to see some consequences, but I wouldn't punish the rest of the family. In saraha's situation, I would tell him to get the money back from his sister, or I would be selling something of his to make up for it. It would be different if the money didn't matter, but they are broke, so it has to come from somewhere.

[TechWife]

On 3/16/2022 at 8:34 PM, HS Mom in NC said:

I think ignoring specific requests like "in lieu of flowers..." is being a jerk. If they didn't really care about not getting flowers, they wouldn't have specified. Good heavens, what else do people have to do to make it clear they don't want flowers and stuff?  I mean, if they were anymore direct they'd be accused of being jerks, but they state it neutrally and matter of factly and people still dismiss it.  (!??!?!?!?) When else is it acceptable to totally disregard someone politely asking something perfectly reasonable?  It's not.  Have some respect.

If someone can't bring themselves to donate to the designated cause, just send a sympathy card.

Asking for a gift, especially a gift of money, is seen by most people as rude. I view the “in lieu of flowers” requests the same way I do gift registries. They are a convenience for both parties. I try to buy from them when possible. If I can’t, I do send a different gift or maybe a check as a gift. The person giving a gift/memorial is the one that chooses. Being ungrateful for a gift is rude. Most people are able to deal with unwanted items at some point.

In the case of a death, decisions don’t have to be made immediately. I know that at both my parents’ funerals the funeral home asked in advance how we wanted to manage flowers and gave us some options. We chose to look them over after the funeral, we selected a few that had special significance to keep, and the rest went to the cemetery, because cemetery flowers are customary among my parents’ peers. Other options we were given included having the funeral home deliver them to a charity of our choice for distribution by the charity, delivered to my parents’ house or discarded. Those are the ones I remember, there may have been others. 

[Scarlett]

On 3/17/2022 at 10:21 AM, Moonhawk said:

Specifically about the idea of "is this reasonable to feel this way, vs am I just letting the past cloud my feelings?"

Well, yes, this specific instance is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, and yes, the past is coloring how you see it --> AND I THINK THAT IS APPROPRIATE. Context matters. In Context, This is a fairly big deal (to me), not something that should be poo poo'd with "Oh, but it's just flowers. It's just his family. You don't need to get emotionally involved about this."

There is an established pattern that you have a problem with, a pattern of disrespect for you (and in this case others: the widower), a pattern that puts hardship on you that is not your responsibility. It's not overreacting to realize that this incident is a continuation of the pattern.

And that's before we even touch the severity of the amount: $130! $130?! Like what?! That's  huge amount to me. An expensive wedding present for someone I've seen once in the past 5 years is going to be $50. For someone you had no relationship with, and it's done because an outsider said to do it, that isn't even directly the bereaved, and is in fact contrary to the bereaved wishes, and it's $130?! I'm in the same boat as you of "that'd have to go on the credit card", and my stressed out meter just went up, coincidentally, 130 points. I'm sorry that you have that now taking up already non-available stress bandwidth.

This would all be different if there were no past pattern of problematic prioritizing and if you guys were millionaires living on your yacht in Tahiti. But that's not the reality. Context matters. Don't let someone tell you it's not a big deal by saying that you should ignore the context.

 doesn't mean you have to go nuclear or anything, and I'm not trying to feed your anger, but I want to affirm that you don't have to minimize your emotions about it. 

This is how I feel about it.   The main issue is that @saraha is not the top priority to her husband.  I rarely recommend counseling, but I feel this situation calls for it.  I have another friend who is going through this same thing but it is in regards to the husbands adult daughter instead of a sibling.  The husband does back flips for his 40 year old daughter who has three kids of her own and a husband.  The reason appears to be guilt over what he imagines his daughter suffered when he and girl’s mom divorced when  the girl was about 9.  But really who knows and regardless of the reason it needs to stop.  
 

Same with @saraha and her husband and his back flips for his sister—- if he wants to understand why he does it….great….go see a therapist. But either way if he values his wife and his marriage he better stop it.  
 

There is a phenomenon called The Walk Away Wife.  Women with seemingly great husbands just inexplicably walk away from a long term marriage.  Many times this is because husbands have refused to listen to their wife’s complaints and requests.  When the husband fully grasp that she is leaving they begin to offer to do anything they can to save the marriage.   I believe we have a recent thread with another poster with this playing out in real time…because once the love bank is empty or in the red the wife just can’t bring herself to stay.  
 

So I hope you are able to get your husband to see what his overall disrespect and disregard is doing to your love for him.  Before it is too late.  

[Scarlett]

My husband is one of 7 siblings.  He is very close to 4 of them.  He is almost 13 years older than the youngest….a sister.  She is glue and direction to the siblings that are close.  She plans things, makes suggestions, asks for things etc.  My husband adores this sister.  He will do anything for her and their other siblings and their mother . The difference is all of them are respectful and considerate of me as a person and more importantly as his wife.  I am put on almost every group text and often I am the one they text to ask what our plans are etc.  

I love his family.  It is possible to have a very close family and maintain healthy boundaries and respect for the wife/husband/in-law.  

[katilac]

On 3/16/2022 at 8:03 PM, barnwife said:

I mean, OTOH, what happened to "it's the thought that counts," being grateful for any gift, blah, blah, blah. Even for birthdays/Christmas/any other gift giving occasion, a person may certainly make requests, but a gift giver is free to spend their money on whatever they choose. Why is this situation any different?

Because the death of a spouse is not equivalent to one's birthday. 

Yes, the thought does count. Sometimes the thought is, "I thought I'd ignore your wishes" and no one should expect gratitude for that. 

On 3/16/2022 at 8:43 PM, Arcadia said:

My husband’s aunt is dying of lung cancer (as in her doctors say it is soon). We would only be able to give a certain amount of “bereavement money” and if his parents want us to “sponsor” them, it would be another heated argument. 
 

What does "sponsor them" mean? That you would give bereavement money on their behalf? 

On 3/17/2022 at 8:28 AM, Jenny in Florida said:

but the idea that people would bring or send cut flowers to that event makes me upset in advance.  

I feel these words deep in my soul 😄

On 3/17/2022 at 12:06 PM, Katy said:

If DH spending money we don’t have for food or rent IS the problem I’d put the kids in school, get a job so we can eat, and prepare to leave him. Because spending money on SIL’s manipulation over what’s best for our family is completely unacceptable. But I don’t think that’s the case here. I think it’s anxiety and triggering. 

So many people are taking the view that $130 is either needed for food and rent, or it is unimportant and can be forgotten. I don't get this. OP is saying that it is a significant amount of money for the family and will negatively impact their finances. It doesn't have to result in hunger or homelessness to be a big deal. 

On 3/17/2022 at 2:26 PM, barnwife said:

But, according to other posters here, he didn't do anything wrong, right? I mean, giving her something for that Christmas would have been awful! He'd have been disregarding her wishes!!! How dare he!

Adding my voice to those who say he indeed did not do anything wrong. She's not a character in a 1960s sitcom; she's a grown-up who should communicate honestly with her spouse. Both dh and I have said at various times that we didn't want gifts for certain occasions, and guess what? We didn't get them, and we didn't get mad. Because we are adults, and also sane. 

17 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

if the consequences of disappointing his sister are greater than the consequences of disappointing his wife, he’s going to continue down the easiest path. 

QFT

Edited March 19, 2022 by katilac