My sister’s neighbor is dying of Covid update: Latest update last post!

[KungFuPanda]

I wonder if, at some point, the number of Americans killed by propaganda will meet or exceed the number killed by Covid.

[kbutton]

49 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I don't disagree with this. My point is that I think conditions for a leftist populist are really strong right now essentially.

I appreciate that clarification. I hope I didn't sound argumentative; I am deeply concerned, and as a conservative that feels pretty homeless right now, I just wanted to vocalize support for the idea of my side taking responsibility to move toward stability even if I don't think it's likely that it will happen. I think it's necessary for my corner of the world to remain a stable place, and I am trying to not make that political; it seems factual at this point. 

I also didn't mean to derail the thread. Sorry! 

[Farrar]

3 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I appreciate that clarification. I hope I didn't sound argumentative; I am deeply concerned, and as a conservative that feels pretty homeless right now, I just wanted to vocalize support for the idea of my side taking responsibility to move toward stability even if I don't think it's likely that it will happen. I think it's necessary for my corner of the world to remain a stable place, and I am trying to not make that political; it seems factual at this point. 

I also didn't mean to derail the thread. Sorry! 

Same. I see it as very factual essentially. I don't know that a leftie populist would be successful in the way that populists on the right have been in recent years. Maybe though. Certainly maybe enough to blow up some powder kegs. I mean, there are conservative leaning and moderate folks in this thread and lots of others around here lately who are also feeling a deep seated resentment toward Americans who refuse to refuse to vaccinate or just accept some basic realities. Someone might come along who can effectively exploit that. And I feel vulnerable to it myself, honestly.

I had a FB post a few weeks back where I shared a thing about stopping blaming and shaming people for getting Covid. I mean, omicron is everywhere, stigmatizing people for a disease means they're less likely to do anything about it, holding that feeling isn't good for us, and shame is not a good motivator. And I got MAJOR pushback from a lot of friends who want to blame people for getting it, who want to be empowered to be the judges, who don't feel like they do owe anyone any compassion, even in the midst of the omicron surge. It's eye-opening.

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

There was an initial thought (though honestly, never subscribed to by any of the people who were actually experts in the field) that kids carried low viral loads and didn’t spread much. Research has shown that not to be true, and the kids carry just as high viral load as adults.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-outbreak-and-kids

“Though the studies varied in their methods, their findings were similar: infected children had as much, or more, coronavirus in their upper respiratory tracts as infected adults. And a November 2021 study conducted by Harvard researchers again confirmed that children carry live virus capable of infecting others.

The amount of virus found in children — their viral load — was not correlated with the severity of their symptoms. In other words, a child with mild or no symptoms may have just as many viral particles in their nose and mouth as a child that has more severe symptoms. So, the presence of a high viral load in infected children increases the likelihood that children, even those without symptoms, could readily spread the infection to others.”

This chimes with the infection patterns in the UK at present - schoolchildren and their parents, plus young people socialising. This is Scotland, with many of the youngest maybe asymptomatic and not tested.

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Laura Corin

[Frances]

23 hours ago, Farrar said:

Same. I see it as very factual essentially. I don't know that a leftie populist would be successful in the way that populists on the right have been in recent years. Maybe though. Certainly maybe enough to blow up some powder kegs. I mean, there are conservative leaning and moderate folks in this thread and lots of others around here lately who are also feeling a deep seated resentment toward Americans who refuse to refuse to vaccinate or just accept some basic realities. Someone might come along who can effectively exploit that. And I feel vulnerable to it myself, honestly.

I had a FB post a few weeks back where I shared a thing about stopping blaming and shaming people for getting Covid. I mean, omicron is everywhere, stigmatizing people for a disease means they're less likely to do anything about it, holding that feeling isn't good for us, and shame is not a good motivator. And I got MAJOR pushback from a lot of friends who want to blame people for getting it, who want to be empowered to be the judges, who don't feel like they do owe anyone any compassion, even in the midst of the omicron surge. It's eye-opening.

I agree with everything you wrote, but still think it far more likely that we end up next with an extreme swing in the other direction with a scarily competent person who will not just very, very successfully continue stoking division by using the proven tactics of lies, propaganda, misinformation, and conspiracy theories, but actually achieve far more of their agenda.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Frances

[El...]

I've been thinking about the issue of extremism, from whatever political angle, especially since it was the Holocaust remembrance day this week.  Here is a photo I took in Rimburg, Netherlands, which I find very meamingful. These stones were placed over several decades, starting with those in German and Dutch, near a little bridge between Germany and the Netherlands. They all say the same thing in different languages. "Be aware of people who teach you to hate, for they will not save you."

Edited January 29, 2022 by elroisees
Spelling

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

And now my mom has Covid.  She didn’t get vaccinated because she was exposed a couple times and didn’t get it early on so somehow she decided she was immune. I can’t roll my eyes enough.  I suspect she’s gone down some conspiracy theory paths but since my dad can’t stand that stuff she doesn’t talk about it.

And there’s absolutely no one else to take care of my homebound bed ridden grandmother. My aunt is out of town and basically refuses to help much anyway(I don’t blame her; her stance all along was that she would not do personal care and my grandmother needed to make other plans once they first had the Parkinson’s diagnosis, which she didn’t do) and there is no other family or caregivers.  So I expect my grandmother will catch Covid now too. She just got out of short term rehab that was filled with Covid and never caught it, but the facility wouldn’t give her the booster and the county health department is dragging their feet on boosters for homebound people, so I fully expect Covid will not end well for her. She was vaccinated with Janssen a year ago, and I was so happy and relieved, but everything has changed now.

Everywhere I turn it just sucks.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Amy in NH]

6 hours ago, kbutton said:

 the most my pastor said while these vile lies have ripped through my church is something like, "Don't fall for that conspiracy theory nonsense." That's it. A one-liner, timed mostly as if it's not real, and he just wants to not be bothered to have to deal with it. People who still attend tell me that every Sunday is like the pandemic is not happening. They don't talk about it at all.

Doesn't it make you more pious, thus better than everyone else, if you don't live a "worldly" life?

[Kassia]

@Mrs TiggywinkleI'm so sorry.  I don't even know what to say.  Thinking of you and praying that your grandmother doesn't get Covid and your mom doesn't get too sick.  Sending hugs even though I know that doesn't change anything.  😞 

[Farrar]

Holding your mom and grandmother in the light, Mrs Tiggywinkle. That's rough.

[freesia]

2 minutes ago, Kassia said:

@Mrs TiggywinkleI'm so sorry.  I don't even know what to say.  Thinking of you and praying that your grandmother doesn't get Covid and your mom doesn't get too sick.  Sending hugs even though I know that doesn't change anything.  😞 

I couldn’t think what do say, but this is it. I wish we still had the group hug emoji. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

And my dad and disabled adult sister just tested positive.  They are both vaccinated and my dad is boostered, however; but my sister is already compromised. She was a extremely early 22 week preemie a long time ago and has cerebral palsy and residual lung damage.

We aren’t telling my sister in Florida, the one who’s friend is dying.  Not yet; she doesn’t need one more thing to worry about.

[Kassia]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

And my dad and disabled adult sister just tested positive.  They are both vaccinated and my dad is boostered, however; but my sister is already compromised. She was a extremely early 22 week preemie a long time ago and has cerebral palsy and residual lung damage.

We aren’t telling my sister in Florida, the one who’s friend is dying.  Not yet; she doesn’t need one more thing to worry about.

This is just too much.  It just seems like a nightmare you can't wake up from.  Seriously, I am in tears for you and wish I could do something to help other than to keep saying how sorry I am and wishing your family all the best.  😞 

[DreamerGirl]

@Mrs Tiggywinkle I do not have the words to say anything meaningful except send you a huge virtual hug. You have been through hell. Sending you strength and all the wishes I could muster. I am so sorry.

 

[kbutton]

@Mrs Tiggywinkle, I am so sorry. How crazy!

 

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, Amy in NH said:

Doesn't it make you more pious, thus better than everyone else, if you don't live a "worldly" life?

Sorry, I don't quite understand the question in the context you quoted me. I will try to answer if you can clarify. 

[ScoutTN]

@Mrs Tiggywinkle I am so sorry! Wish I could send you hope and help and hugs. Praying for you and all of your family.

[math teacher]

I'm so sorry!!

[happi duck]

Many (hugs)

[bolt.]

51 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Sorry, I don't quite understand the question in the context you quoted me. I will try to answer if you can clarify. 

I think she means, in somewhat snarky friendliness, that maybe such a person believes themself to be 'above' talking about 'affairs of the world' (i.e. a pandemic) because they are too pious for such things. Thus they have a religious excuse for their silence.

I don't think there is a question there that you need to understand or answer: just a little bit of gentle humour.

Edited January 30, 2022 by bolt.

[Faith-manor]

2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

And my dad and disabled adult sister just tested positive.  They are both vaccinated and my dad is boostered, however; but my sister is already compromised. She was a extremely early 22 week preemie a long time ago and has cerebral palsy and residual lung damage.

We aren’t telling my sister in Florida, the one who’s friend is dying.  Not yet; she doesn’t need one more thing to worry about.

Tiggy, my heart is breaking for you! I just want to hug you.

[kbutton]

42 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I think she means, in somewhat snarky friendliness, that maybe such a person believes themself to be 'above' talking about 'affairs of the world' (i.e. a pandemic) because they are too pious for such things. Thus they have a religious excuse for their silence.

I don't think there is a question there that you need to understand or answer: just a little bit of gentle humour.

This makes sense and is what I thought she might mean. I didn't want to derail things if I was totally off! 

Locally it's more of the "living in fear" rhetoric online; I am not sure what they say in person.

[Murphy101]

9 hours ago, KrisTom said:

Geez, maybe these people shouldn't even both getting medical care and wasting other people's time.  I know not everything is pleasant, but I still believe doctors and nurses know more than I do in terms of medical care, seeing that I didn't go to medical school and don't have a nursing degree.  I just wonder what these same people did before Covid.

Basic obviously in common common sense would do the trick! I’m dying because I need blood. Whatever is in the blood doesn’t much matter at that point.  Worse case, what’s in it kills me later vs this week. So I take the bleeping blood transfusion and pray.

9 hours ago, Farrar said:

The sentiment that "this is not who I want to be" really resonates with me.

Dh thinks there is a lot of political space right now for someone who comes in and really hardcore demonizes the people who refuse to do these basic things. Like, there's a lot of hate building up against the people who are conspiracy nuts - the people who don't believe in Covid, the people sucked into Qanon stuff, the people who tried to overthrow the election (and are still trying), people who are just generally anti-education, anti-science, anti-life. Instead of the traditional, we need to do better and educate, we need to do more to help, we need to serve everyone no matter their stance, reach out, etc. - I think a lot of people are ready to cut them loose, including from medical treatment.

Yeah. I’m really tired of riding the pendulum extremism swing. I want off this ride. 

9 hours ago, goldberry said:

An anti-vax family member had remdisivir and the family are convinced it *gave him* blood clots.  Not the virus, but the remdisivir.

Bc people are stupid.  I’m not even in medicine and I have heard:

kerosine is what we used back in the day for colds. We’d run some on the babies chest.

me: um. That can cause all kinds of kidney and other problems

them annoyed at MY stupidity: oh good grief that’s why we rubbed it in their CHEST and not their kidneys!

me not commenting and thinking: Dear God, how the hell did Adam and Wve even make it out of the garden without ending our species?!

another example:

woman: you can’t let them do a biopsy! It causes the cancer to spread everywhere.

me: uh, I don’t think it works like splicing a mushroom spore?

woman: well no one I know who had breast cancer had it anywhere else until after they let the doctor cut into them!  It’s BREAST cancer, it will stay there if the horrible doctors don’t mess with it.

me: *again God I ask you? How can anyone claim divine providence doesn’t exist when there’s so many stupid humans who as a species really shouldn’t have lasted this long?!*

Covid reasons the doctors “let their loved one die” or cause it with bad medicine is not much different imo. And let’s be clear I am very medical skeptic. I have lots and lots of questions for our medical care and I have seen some crazy bad medicine at times. And still. Here I am alive and not dead because most medical staff are not complete lazy morons letting patients die. 

8 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I wonder if, at some point, the number of Americans killed by propaganda will meet or exceed the number killed by Covid.

Well thanks to propaganda, we will never know.

[KSera]

47 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Whatever is in the blood doesn’t much matter at that point.  Worse case, what’s in it kills me later vs this week. So I take the bleeping blood transfusion and pray.

From what I'm seeing, it seems at that point, it's not anything about worrying about health effects, but rather adherence to their cult. It's dying for their anti-vax belief. I read two different stories this week of people refusing to get vaccinated so that they could get a transplant. One of them has already since died, and even their family still says she made the right decision to stand by her beliefs. That might make some sense if those beliefs were something meaningful, but when they are dying for provably false propaganda that others are using frequently for monetary or political gain, it's a crying shame and waste of a life.

[Murphy101]

10 hours ago, KSera said:

From what I'm seeing, it seems at that point, it's not anything about worrying about health effects, but rather adherence to their cult. It's dying for their anti-vax belief. I read two different stories this week of people refusing to get vaccinated so that they could get a transplant. One of them has already since died, and even their family still says she made the right decision to stand by her beliefs. That might make some sense if those beliefs were something meaningful, but when they are dying for provably false propaganda that others are using frequently for monetary or political gain, it's a crying shame and waste of a life.

I know. It makes no sense. That’s my point. Even if I did think all the wackadoodle stuff was true - so what? I’m DYING, so what’s the harm in risking the wackadoodle anyways?!  Zero. But there they are being stupid humans anyways.

But I don’t think it’s a waste.  It means those transplants are going to those most likely to stay healthy enough to keep it. So okay then. Judicious stewardship of scarce resource to save the lives the doctors can.

[Janeway]

I have never heard anyone say they do not believe in Covid, even from those who won't vaccinate or mask. What I hear is, I do not believe the vaccinations work or I do not believe they are safer than Covid.  And also, I do not believe masks work. 

 

Personally, I do not believe masks work, other than for when people sneeze and such. I feel that only social distancing and such truly works, and I do not mean just stand 6 feet away but then walk through each others' space. 

I am sorry about the neighbor, but are you sure she was not vaccinated? Because every single person I have known to die from Covid since the vaccinations came out was vaccinated. 

[goldberry]

11 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

 

 And let’s be clear I am very medical skeptic. I have lots and lots of questions for our medical care and I have seen some crazy bad medicine at times. And still. Here I am alive and not dead because most medical staff are not complete lazy morons letting patients die. 

 

YES!  Exactly this.  I DO NOT believe every single thing a doctor says just bc they are a doctor.  I do research - from reputable and verifiable sites!  But dear Lord what is happening with these people is insane.  "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."  That's their mantra.

[catz]

Well we've had a number of known exposures since being vaccinated.  Especially my teen and young adult.  They have been wearing KN95's or surgical masks mostly since last fall.  But in groups with known exposures with the entire groups being masked there has been no further spread among the groups in their instances.  And that even goes for long term indoor exposures (all day rehearsals with singing, dancing, etc), all masked.  These groups are generally highly to fully (as in it's a requirement to participate) groups too so I'm sure that is helping as well.  There is plenty of data on this too but I'm not going to dig it up because that obviously won't convince anyone.  It was really obvious in our metro early in the fall which schools were masking and which weren't because they were publishing school covid data every week.  Our dense urban schools were actually doing the best. 

There's also plenty of data showing the death rate is substantially higher in the unvaccinated.  I luckily don't know anyone directly who has died, but I'm in a sea of vaccinated people where there is less death and less spread.  If you look up death rates by state, the states with some of the lowest vaccination rates also have the highest death rates.  It would be interesting to see that broken out more  after initial vaccine rollouts.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~All+ages

[KSera]

8 minutes ago, catz said:

There is plenty of data on this too but I'm not going to dig it up because that obviously won't convince anyone.

Anyone who denies that the vaccines dramatically decrease death rates isn’t interested in data. I was going to repost some graphs, but I’m not going to bother. As research shows, for many people, data that opposes their view only makes them dig in their heels more stubbornly. 

[WendyLady]

*snipped out personal stuff

I hope we can have compassion for those who have different views on topics that mean the most to us. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by WendyLady

[Kassia]

@WendyLadyI'm so sorry for your daughter's losses (and yours too) and hope she can have children someday.  ❤️

[Frances]

2 hours ago, Janeway said:

I have never heard anyone say they do not believe in Covid, even from those who won't vaccinate or mask. What I hear is, I do not believe the vaccinations work or I do not believe they are safer than Covid.  And also, I do not believe masks work. 

 

Personally, I do not believe masks work, other than for when people sneeze and such. I feel that only social distancing and such truly works, and I do not mean just stand 6 feet away but then walk through each others' space. 

I am sorry about the neighbor, but are you sure she was not vaccinated? Because every single person I have known to die from Covid since the vaccinations came out was vaccinated. 

The plural of anecdote is not data. Please go and read statistics on hospitalizations and deaths in the vaccinated vs the unvaccinated. It’s very easy to find lots of local, state, and US data. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, WendyLady said:

I don’t understand the anger against those who don’t vaccinate, or the joy when they get sick.

I hope no one here would ever show joy when anyone gets sick. I have seen that sometimes in comment sections, and find that abhorrent, though it doesn’t shock me anymore given all the other awfulness I also see in comments sections.  It saddens me though. I do understand frustration about needless deaths—I mourn all the lost lives that didn’t need to die and I do absolutely feel anger at the people who spread (and frequently monetize) the misinformation out that led to their deaths. 
 

Like @bolt. I tend to feel upset in the abstract at people buying into the misinformation and not vaccinating or taking Covid seriously, but as soon as I read or hear about anyone who is actually sick, I feel terrible for their situation and sad for their families and want them to heal and be home healthy again. 
 

I’m terribly sorry to hear of your dd’s struggles, @WendyLady . I hope her doctors are able to help her address the clotting and go on to have successful pregnancies. Loss is devastating 😞. 

[Corraleno]

2 hours ago, catz said:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~All+ages

The difference is so stark that it boggles the mind anyone can deny it. The most recent CDC data  showed that the unvaccinated were 13 times more likely to catch covid and 68 times more likely to die from it compared to people who had boosters. 

[Frances]

7 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The difference is so stark that it boggles the mind anyone can deny it. The most recent CDC data  showed that the unvaccinated were 13 times more likely to catch covid and 68 times more likely to die from it compared to people who had boosters. 

But you know, I have a friend, neighbor, mother’s brother’s sister’s cousin who …

[Jean in Newcastle]

I understand anger against those who don’t vaccinate. They endanger themselves and others. It’s more of a frustration. However, I am now at the point where it’s more of a weary resignation. 
 

Who’s expressing joy that anyone gets sick?  We don’t want anyone to get sick. Thus the frustrated anger. No one (that I know) is frustrated because they want everyone to arbitrarily agree with them. They are frustrated because this matters for the health of all in our communities. 
 

The most I have seen is a hope that certain vocal antivaxxers might change their minds after getting sick with the goal of keeping others from also getting sick. 

[cintinative]

@Mrs Tiggywinkle  I am so sorry to hear about your sister's neighbor and also about your mom, sister and father. Joining the others in prayer for you and your family. 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Who’s expressing joy that anyone gets sick?  We don’t want anyone to get sick. Thus the frustrated anger. No one (that I know) is frustrated because they want everyone to arbitrarily agree with them. They are frustrated because this matters for the health of all in our communities. 

I don't think it's on here, but there are sites dedicated to mocking those who are loud and proud about being unvaccinated and then die.

I feel a sense of anger when people I have a personal connection to choose not to vaccinate, and I have to hear the progression toward death unfold in predictable fashion. It's like being forced to watch someone do something terribly dangerous like running blindfolded in traffic, except that it takes a lot longer, and people not only want prayers, they want acceptance, a go fund me, and meal deliveries to help them cope. I just can't with all that. I am sad for them, but I cannot be sad in the same supportive way that I am sad when someone fights cancer and loses or is in a tragic accident or even just someone facing a surgery that makes them unable to care for their family, so they need a meal. This is not that, and no one can make me equate them in my mind. 

I mostly don't blame people for getting sick (though I do shake my head when someone reasonably cautious gives non-cautious people the benefit of the doubt, and they get sick while doing so). I do blame people for behaving recklessly, and I think that is different.

I also don't dance on their graves or wish them dead, but I do wholeheartedly wish that their deaths would open eyes to reality (but it doesn't). 

[Jean in Newcastle]

11 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I don't think it's on here, but there are sites dedicated to mocking those who are loud and proud about being unvaccinated and then die.

I feel a sense of anger when people I have a personal connection to choose not to vaccinate, and I have to hear the progression toward death unfold in predictable fashion. It's like being forced to watch someone do something terribly dangerous like running blindfolded in traffic, except that it takes a lot longer, and people not only want prayers, they want acceptance, a go fund me, and meal deliveries to help them cope. I just can't with all that. I am sad for them, but I cannot be sad in the same supportive way that I am sad when someone fights cancer and loses or is in a tragic accident or even just someone facing a surgery that makes them unable to care for their family, so they need a meal. This is not that, and no one can make me equate them in my mind. 

I mostly don't blame people for getting sick (though I do shake my head when someone reasonably cautious gives non-cautious people the benefit of the doubt, and they get sick while doing so). I do blame people for behaving recklessly, and I think that is different.

I also don't dance on their graves or wish them dead, but I do wholeheartedly wish that their deaths would open eyes to reality (but it doesn't). 

I have run into the “So-and-So was unvaxxed and got a light case”. They seem to blink in astonishment when I genuinely am grateful that they had a light case. I don’t add that I am glad that they won at Russian Roulette.
 

And I hear (the gleeful)  “So-and-So was vaxxed and got it” announcement. I have stopped pointing out that vaccination was never a 100% guarantee from illness or even death. It’s just much much better odds. 
 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Jean in Newcastle

[Melissa in Australia]

4 hours ago, WendyLady said:

My daughter is an ICU nurse in a small town and has helped after two very traumatic births where the mom did not survive due to covid complications. One was vaccinated one was not. One was very similar to your friend where the mom was kept on life support after the section but eventually died. The other died during delivery - and it was terrible. The babies both made it. 

My daughter developed a clotting disorder about the time she got her first vaccine and has had two miscarriages this year due to clotting issues that may be connected to the vaccine, though there’s no way to know. She is heartbroken and not sure that she will be able to have children. She says that while she is pro vaccine and has followed all vaccine protocol, her miscarriages have helped her see the side that maybe vaccines aren’t great if you are wanting to have a baby (info considered propaganda) and has a lot of compassion for pregnant women who have made to choice to not vaccinate.
 

I hope we can have compassion for those who have different views on topics that mean the most to us. I don’t understand the anger against those who don’t vaccinate, or the joy when they get sick. It’s a scary time and I’m not sure it helps anyone to vilify one group of people. And I think scientific progress happens when all options are open. 

Huge hugs

I am so so sorry for your daughter.

 My dd is pregnant and unvaccinated. 

[Melissa in Australia]

2 hours ago, Frances said:

But you know, I have a friend, neighbor, mother’s brother’s sister’s cousin who …

Are you trying to ridicule peoples lived experiences because they don’t fit into your narrative?

Or am I just confused by the American dialect? 

[catz]

2 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Are you trying to ridicule peoples lived experiences because they don’t fit into your narrative?

Or am I just confused by the American dialect? 

There is nothing wrong with sharing your lived experiences as anecdotes.  When you insinuate your lived experience is evidence that large scale data collected over a range of time is "wrong", that is something different.  Unless you have other evidence showing a conspiracy of thousands falsifying and misreporting data.  Still waiting for that.  No one is saying that masking or vaccination is perfect and I personally value people sharing their personal experiences in general.  But I am touchy about people stating things as fact based on their experience.  

I will also say since vaccine rollouts, we've ran into a few cases of knowing people that say their vaccine status is one thing when it was later shown to be something else.  Especially on my son's college campus where 95% are vaccinated and unvaccinated young people not wanting to say they are unvaccinated when they expose friends or end up in an urgent care.  I wouldn't assume people are necessarily reporting vaccine status accurately.  And double that when you're hearing a 2nd or 3rd hand story and reposting or retelling it as accurate.  There are reasons going both ways why people don't want to have to answer about their vaccine status.   I really did just assume people were honest this way as vaccines were rolled out.  But as covid policies have evolved on my son's campus seeing various students he know get accidently outed for their vaccine status has taught me differently (as they've required testing of different populations, certain groups asking for proof of vaccine, etc).  

And I'm not saying people here are lying at all, I don't get the feeling that is generally a problem here.  What I do think CAN happen is people can tell a 3rd hand story they don't actually know all the details on.

[Frances]

3 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Are you trying to ridicule peoples lived experiences because they don’t fit into your narrative?

Or am I just confused by the American dialect? 

It was a direct response to a post by @Janewaywhere she questioned whether the neighbor dying from covid was actually unvaccinated because everyone she knows who died has been unvaccinated, thus viewing her anecdotal experiences as equal to or superior to the mountain of group data that has been collected worldwide. It is one of many reasons why the pandemic has been so devastating in the US.

Of course it is fine for people to share there experiences that are outliers or out of the norm. But it’s very important to remember the vast issues with anecdotes and not elevate them above actual data.

And honestly, sometimes you just have to laugh at the absurdity of where we are now in the US in regards to so many different things, including covid, due to the now astounding acceptance of lies, propaganda, misinformation, and conspiracy theories by a significant chunk of our population. Otherwise, it’s just too depressing and scary to deal with on a daily basis.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Frances

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I am quite sure my sister’s neighbor is non vaccinated. I’ve looked at her Facebook and she posted a lot of anti-vax stuff, plus I’ve reviewed some of her medical records to explain it to her husband.  Honestly, if the vast majority of people you know are vaccinated, then it’s likely if someone dies from Covid in your social circle they were vaccinated.  I’m certainly not denying that it happens, but the statistics are really clear that vaccinations are helping reduce your chances of death.

My sister fortunately is doing very well. I was not aware she was vaccinated, since she doesn’t drive and lives with my parents, and I doubted they’d even think about it.  My mom is not anti-vax for anyone but herself, but she doesn’t always think about my sister and what she needs.   It’s the strangest thing. My mom refuses to get vaccinated but bugged me every single day from the day I was eligible until the day I got boostered and is beyond livid that she can’t seem to get my grandmother boostered.  It’s just so weird to me.

I have not heard anything more about my sister’s neighbor. 
 

I am struggling with compassion.  I am working on compassion towards the individual, even if en masse I don’t have much left.  Every day I work I get at least one patient feeling miserable with Covid who isn’t vaccinated because they didn’t think Covid was that serious or just a mild cold.  I’ve just got nothing.

I am starting to wonder how any HCW are going to come out of this without being irretrievably broken.  

[SKL]

I pray that your family members who are infected will have mild cases.

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Are you trying to ridicule peoples lived experiences because they don’t fit into your narrative?

Or am I just confused by the American dialect? 

I don't think it's ridiculing, it's that it's so frustrating to see people scaring people away from life saving vaccines because of their "friend, neighbor, mother’s brother’s sister’s cousin who … " It's not a small problem, it's massive, and there are scores of pregnant women who have refused the vaccine and died as a result because of someone's anecdotes about their mother's brother's sister's cousin who... It is an enormous threat to pregnant women and their to have these people scare them off getting vaccinated, and way too many have died and/or lost their babies because of it. It's not someone's personal narrative, either. Covid has been clearly shown more dangerous to pregnant women than non-pregnant women and the outcomes are clearly much worse for unvaccinated pregnant women than vaccinated, such that it's almost to the point of despair to continue to see people discourage pregnant women from being vaccinated. I have an extended family member who recently gave birth, having refused vaccination while pregnant due to fears and it was a huge sigh of relief for us when she and baby came through the whole thing without having contracted covid.

 

18 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

It’s the strangest thing. My mom refuses to get vaccinated but bugged me every single day from the day I was eligible until the day I got boostered and is beyond livid that she can’t seem to get my grandmother boostered.  It’s just so weird to me.

Is it possible she's needle-phobic?

[DreamerGirl]

28 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

am starting to wonder how any HCW are going to come out of this without being irretrievably broken.  

And their families.

BIL is one of the strongest people I know but he had to isolate from his family to keep them safe as a doctor and that and seeing people die regularly just about made him sob everyday to DH.

My DS is determined to go into medicine and honestly I really want to steer him away because of what I see with BIL. He was so compassionate and has similar feelings like you.

We hear so many stories of people spitting, fighting, hurting them. 

Add in stories like these and I wonder why anyone even goes to work

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/24/us/thedacare-lawsuit-wisconsin.html

All the clapping, banging of pots was all for show ?

[Melissa Louise]

Of cours it was all for show! Clapping is easy, demands nothing, and makes people feel good. It was always just theatre. 

The best way to help HCW's has always been to behave in a covid-resonsible way - get vaccinated, wear your mask, avoid large gatherings, take care of your overall health. 

 

[Frances]

3 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Of cours it was all for show! Clapping is easy, demands nothing, and makes people feel good. It was always just theatre. 

The best way to help HCW's has always been to behave in a covid-resonsible way - get vaccinated, wear your mask, avoid large gatherings, take care of your overall health. 

 

At least in my neighborhood, the people banging pots and pans were also the ones taking all of the covid precautions. I didn’t personally participate because I knew it was meaningless to my spouse, a healthcare worker. But maybe the two tended to go together? So those not out there showing support by banging pots or whatever are also the ones not taking covid seriously? I haven’t read any articles or research about it.

[TCB]

54 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

 

 

I am struggling with compassion.  I am working on compassion towards the individual, even if en masse I don’t have much left.  Every day I work I get at least one patient feeling miserable with Covid who isn’t vaccinated because they didn’t think Covid was that serious or just a mild cold.  I’ve just got nothing.

I am starting to wonder how any HCW are going to come out of this without being irretrievably broken.  

I am right there with you my friend. I don’t know if it is compassion exactly but more that I can no longer give of myself like I used to be able to. It makes me sad, but I’m not beating up on myself because I too am a human being.