I am going to rant about college administrators. Really rant. I am stuck in hotels for the weekend because of them.

[Faith-manor]

So I made it to our son's university in the upper peninsula, the last leg was a white knuckle drive because NWS/NOAH was wrong about when the first part of the storm would hit, and it came two hours early. But, I made it, and had a hotel foe the night so I could get ds out today.

His R.A. has 3 exams today. 3. They refuse to assign another person to do check outs for students leaving on the break. There is a $500 fine for leaving the dorm without an inspection, and then they won't guarantee your room the next semester. My son is a senior. He graduates April 30 IF nothing gets screwed up. So guess who is at the mercy of a check out? My son. 3 pm was the earliest, if his over worked R.A. is on time, that he can go through the process. By 7 pm. The entire UP is locked into leg two of the storm. Guess what the local police are saying. "Pack survival gear if you are in your car instead of home at 7 pm. Food, water, blankets ,flashlights, etc." We have no guarantee we can make it to St. Ignace and across the bridge by then, and the bridge may have to close down tonight for ice and high winds.

The college was told to simply wave the final exams and the check out crap today and get the students on the roads and home or at least for those of us in the lower peninsula, across the bridge. Nope. They won't do it. Exams for some of these students go to 5 pm.

On top of that, there is a commencement tomorrow which has not been canceled, and the dorms are closing, but roads out of here are not predicted to be even navigating until 4 pm. There is one dorm floor for students who applied to stay over the holiday in advance. Nothing else.

I got one of the remaining rooms in the city less than $200 for the night. Most of the hotels were already full, mostly of students who aren't going to make it home. 

I get that professors don't like to wave a final exam. But sometimes other considerations should be a higher priority. And given we pay $11,000 a year for room and board, would it kill the school to go sweep and mop floors in those dorm rooms before the students return instead of making these students lay over to do it when a life threatening storm is bearing down?

Sigh.

Not happy and stranded until Saturday afternoon.

 

[TheReader]

Oh, that is awful. I'm sorry they can't prioritize the right things. 😞

[catz]

Ugh, that is some cruddy inflexible leadership.  Sorry for you! ❤️  

 

[MEmama]

It’s baffling how clueless and inflexible some administrators can be. It’s not like you are in an area of the country that doesn’t see severe weather— they should have standard protocols in place for situations like this. 
 

I'm glad you are safe and cozy—and with your DS!—but I’m angry on your behalf for the unnecessary stress the school is placing on everyone. 

[ScoutTN]

How frustrating!! Stay safe! 

[RootAnn]

I'm sad for the students & families in this position. What happens if one of those people get into an accident due to trying to get through on the bad roads? SMH

So very glad ALL the dorns stay open over break at my dd#1's college--which is where your southern home is located & thus won't have the same risk of winter conditions you are facing now.

[barnwife]

I am sorry you are dealing with this. I am also fascinated by your post. Is your son not living in the dorm next semester? I've only ever experienced inspections when a student is moving out. So the vast majority of dorm students don't need an inspection in Dec., as they will be back in Jan. Therefore, RA's aren't overworked inspection-wise at this time of year. Also in my experience, any RA in a given dorm can inspect any room in the dorm, so you aren't limited to your own RA. 

So your experience intrigues me, because this isn't that far from me, and I know no one who's experienced dorm rules like this. 

I hope you  (and others) stay safe this weekend!

[Farrar]

I'm in a hate college administrators mood myself today for reasons of my own. So I really feel you. That absolutely sucks. People who are inflexible in the face of a natural disaster like that suck.

[Kassia]

That is really ridiculous and I'd be ranting too.  They are putting a lot of people at risk unnecessarily by handling things this way.  

[Faith-manor]

16 minutes ago, barnwife said:

I am sorry you are dealing with this. I am also fascinated by your post. Is your son not living in the dorm next semester? I've only ever experienced inspections when a student is moving out. So the vast majority of dorm students don't need an inspection in Dec., as they will be back in Jan. Therefore, RA's aren't overworked inspection-wise at this time of year. Also in my experience, any RA in a given dorm can inspect any room in the dorm, so you aren't limited to your own RA. 

So your experience intrigues me, because this isn't that far from me, and I know no one who's experienced dorm rules like this. 

I hope you  (and others) stay safe this weekend!

Yes, he is living in the dorm. But, they require a room inspection anyway if your dorm is not the one for students not going home. They close whole dorms for the break. No other R.A. was available. He had the option of using another one if they had been available, but were not. I wanted to be in his room during his exam just getting it all done so he could check out this morning and then go take his exam. But covid protocols and what not, so it wasn't allowed, and especially because I was a "guest" and the student wouldn't be with me because he would have been at his first exam. The guest rules due to covid have been tight. It has also been very hard to track the right people down to ask questions. Very very busy time. Sigh.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Faith-manor

[alisoncooks]

Sheesh. Not everyone can afford a hotel stay spur-of-the-moment. What do those people do?! Sleep in their cars in a storm?

[Terabith]

That is dangerous and despicable.  

[athena1277]

So sorry!  I was frustrated that we had to wait 1.5 hours for my dd’s RA to finish exams Wednesday so we could leave for home.  I was really hoping for a 30 minute turnaround, not 2 hours.  This story makes me thankful that it wasn’t worse.  Stay safe and I hope you have an uneventful trip home!

[Laura Corin]

As a university administrator,  I'm really sorry to hear this.

[Faith-manor]

He just got checked out and we are back in the hotel. I have a suite with two rooms and a kitchen, and it has an electric skillet, utensils, plates, etc. I decided to get everything to make nachos. He is thrilled. The food lately has not been very tasty at school. Something about cooking for him tonight is making me relax a little, and I don't like to cook! 😁

Tomorrow makes me nervous because I don't know when the main roads will be cleared, and not sure where to find this information. Our check out is 11 am, and I thought about begging for a late check out at 12 pm. to buy us another hour. We could go sit in the parking lot of a coffee shop for a while I guess. I am not thrilled about sitting inside a restaurant with our masks off for a long time, but maybe if I see one with a fairly empty parking lot that is open and staffed (I would assume it would only be open if their employees live right here in town), then that might be an option for wasting another hour. Fingers crossed I can leave by 1-2pm. That gets me home at 9 pm.is, but with most of the worst areas all traversed during daylight hours. Our area will get high winds, but not the big snow dump so the last three hours in the dark would be okay.

[natalie]

Ask for a late check out.  I always do (or should I say I did pre-covid).  It has never been a problem.  If I don't mention a time, they usually volunteer even later than I was going to ask for.  Good luck!  My ds heads home from up there next week.  Getting the timing right in the winter to be sure there are no problems at the bridge is always fun.  For some reason it always seems to be snowy or super windy on the dates needed to travel.  

FYI: They have changed tomorrow from wind advisory to high wind warning for tomorrow back home. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by natalie

[*****]

And its not like those kinds of storms are new to the U.P.  I can't even imagine what it must be like to find hotels with graduation, what a mess at this time of the year. Glad you got a room, stay another if you can?  Just take it slow...or get across the bridge and find a hotel elsewhere?

[Faith-manor]

5 minutes ago, ***** said:

And its not like those kinds of storms are new to the U.P.  I can't even imagine what it must be like to find hotels with graduation, what a mess at this time of the year. Glad you got a room, stay another if you can?  Just take it slow...or get across the bridge and find a hotel elsewhere?

That is my plan. Stick around the town until I can make it across the bridge. Hold up in Mackinac City of I75 south is not clear, otherwise push through to Gaylord and re-evaluate.

[PinkTulip]

I’ve used an app called “Drive weather” that has been pretty good for planning long-distance drives in sketchy winter weather. They update based on the National weather service and state department of transportation information. You can put in proposed start times to see what the weather and roads will be like at any given time. 

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, PinkTulip said:

I’ve used an app called “Drive weather” that has been pretty good for planning long-distance drives in sketchy winter weather. They update based on the National weather service and state department of transportation information. You can put in proposed start times to see what the weather and roads will be like at any given time. 

Thanks so much! I have never hear of it! (Faith scurried off to take a look.)

[PinkTulip]

15 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Thanks so much! I have never hear of it! (Faith scurried off to take a look.)

Hope it helps - stay safe!

Edited December 10, 2021 by PinkTulip

[TexasProud]

I would be livid as well. That is ridiculous. Stay safe!

[chiguirre]

Shutting down the dorms and forcing people out onto impassable roads in a blizzard is more than inflexible, that's just flat out irresponsible. A whole lot of people are going to be forced to camp out in the Wal-Mart parking lot waiting for the roads to clear. What a mess! 

[I talk to the trees]

What an awful situation! Rant away! I’m so sorry!

[Faith-manor]

Well, the travel advisory (which includes what to pack in your car because of stranding), is that probably 28 isn't going to be clear.before Sunday nor will 41, and those are my two main road options out. The storm is going to dump until 4 pm tomorrow with horrible wind so......

Guess who has a room for Saturday night now? Ya. Me. I think the college students though stoic, is seething a little inwardly because he will be missing his grandmother's Sunday noon ham.

I can't stay in the suite. It was booked for tomorrow night. But we will still.have a microwave and mini fridge so my plan for meals tomorrow is if we can go directly from this room to the new one, running to Target for Bob Evans mac n cheese, mashed potatoes, and shredded barbecue pork or beef, whatever they have, and some plastic silverware and paper plates, then add a couple of oranges and a bag of snack veggies. We can just eat on that all day. Plus I have some leftover taco meat and beans.I have a zip lock bag I can use to store it, and we still have nacho chips and sour cream. 

 

[LJPPKGFGSC]

If you can't get out of town, maybe whoever reserved your room can't get into town.  So you might be able to stay there after all!

[Faith-manor]

When ds accepted the offer up here, ad did a lot of investigating about the winter driving. It was shocking how many students over the past ten years have died, been badly injured in car wrecks on these winter roads, not to mention students suffering in the cold stranded in cars. Friends of ours had a daughter, four years older than ds, who came to the same.school. They sent her with a car, and let me just say, they had some horrible scares. Local hotels will let students younger than 21 book rooms, but the corporate ones don't. I would imagine there have been times that professors and staff have maybe taken some students home with them. We just looked at it, and decided we did not want to put a fairly new driver out on these roads. So it has been a long four years of making these runs. Eight per year: move in, T day break and return, Xmas  break and return, spring break and return, and then move out. Christmas sophomore year, same deal...laid over in a hotel waiting it out. I love the U.P. in the summer. It is gorgeous, just stunning in the summers and autumn, so much to do and enjoy. But winter is a killer!

[2squared]

I will admit that winter driving is stopping us from sending our kids to particular schools. We live on the MN/SD border, and we are not sending our kids to school beyond western MN border schools. We hope the kids go East, but Sioux Falls, Brookings, Fargo are as west and north as we would be comfortable.

If they went into SD or ND, I think we would have to plan as though we would get stranded on every winter trip. It’s just a reality of winter here, so we would go into it with eyes wide open, extra travel funds, and contingency plans. 

ETA: We also make sure our kids start driving as much as possible at 15yo so they are as experienced drivers as possible when they graduate high school. Safe winter driving requires experience. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by 2squared

[Faith-manor]

14 minutes ago, 2squared said:

I will admit that winter driving is stopping us from sending our kids to particular schools. We live on the MN/SD border, and we are not sending our kids to school beyond western MN border schools. We hope the kids go East, but Sioux Falls, Brookings, Fargo are as west and north as we would be comfortable.

If they went into SD or ND, I think we would have to plan as though we would get stranded on every winter trip. It’s just a reality of winter here, so we would go into it with eyes wide open, extra travel funds, and contingency plans. 

ETA: We also make sure our kids start driving as much as possible at 15yo so they are as experienced drivers as possible when they graduate high school. Safe winter driving requires experience. 

Sounds like a good plan. Even starting young, we live far enough down state, they could never be prepared for this without many years of experience. Even I am still daunted by it. Yes I have decades of experience, but the U.P. is a gazillion times worse for snow fall totals, high winds, long, stalled storms, and long long stretches of road with nothing and no one for help than anything they have where we live. From US 10 South the lower half of the lower peninsula is just very different. We have plenty of bad weather, schools called off for snow days ice on roads etc. and it is NOTHING compared to say Gaylord, which is nothing compared to Houghton.

[2squared]

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Sounds like a good plan. Even starting young, we live far enough down state, they could never be prepared for this without many years of experience. Even I am still daunted by it. Yes I have decades of experience, but the U.P. is a gazillion times worse for snow fall totals, high winds, long, stalled storms, and long long stretches of road with nothing and no one for help than anything they have where we live. From US 10 South the lower half of the lower peninsula is just very different. We have plenty of bad weather, schools called off for snow days ice on roads etc. and it is NOTHING compared to say Gaylord, which is nothing compared to Houghton.

Sounds like the prairie where we live!

My #1 driver training goal is to teach the kids when to stay put. Plans can and do change based on weather, especially surprise ground blizzards. An inch of snow can become very dangerous with our prairie winds. We have missed many family winter gatherings and our winter activities are constantly rescheduled. 

If I could go back in time, I would not choose to live here again.

 

[MEmama]

DH and I spent our first anniversary trip cross country skiing in the UP (we lived in MN). Our first afternoon we got stuck on ice in the parking lot (aka frozen over bog), literally couldn’t back the truck out at all. We were no strangers to winter driving but the ice had encased the tire and we had no idea what to do. It was getting dark (it was like 3pm) and cold and we were definitely nervous. Of course there was no one else around. Finally a single car drove by— and they actually stopped and managed to get us out. We were so grateful, but he just said in a very matter of fact, northern way that there isn’t anyone up there who doesn’t get stuck from time to time and everyone just helps each other. 

That trip was weird in all kinds of ways but man is it pretty up there. Such a stark and raw landscape, I really loved it. 

[kiwik]

How come kids don't catch buses home?   Do they have so much stuff it is impossible? It just always seems a bit inefficient to drive so far to pick them up you have to stay overnight if they get delayed.  

[TexasProud]

44 minutes ago, kiwik said:

How come kids don't catch buses home?   Do they have so much stuff it is impossible? It just always seems a bit inefficient to drive so far to pick them up you have to stay overnight if they get delayed.  

LOL, well, I am not sure how buses work where you are, but it would take at least 3 days if not more to take a bus from Texas to Indiana. They stop at every single small town. She would have to transfer lines. Even when I looked at it for my son who lived 3 hours away, it would take nearly 24 hours to get him here.  

[2squared]

1 hour ago, kiwik said:

How come kids don't catch buses home?   Do they have so much stuff it is impossible? It just always seems a bit inefficient to drive so far to pick them up you have to stay overnight if they get delayed.  

Buses take so long, and we live very rurally so buses aren’t an option anyway. We would have to drive pretty far to pick up college kids, so not worth it versus driving. 

We plan on our kids having vehicles at school whenever possible. Part of our paying for college plan includes funding a nice car for them. Our lives are far too busy to be driving college kids around, and I don’t want kids driving with cars that might break down. Our rural weather conditions get tough very quickly. 

[mommyoffive]

Hoping you are safe and sound.

[Alicia64]

wow, that is not cool.

Just my .02, but in your mood you could write one hell of a letter for the local paper's letter section (as long as you stay somewhat neutral on how much you dislike the admin. at the moment).

I'm really sorry.

[Dmmetler]

3 hours ago, kiwik said:

How come kids don't catch buses home?   Do they have so much stuff it is impossible? It just always seems a bit inefficient to drive so far to pick them up you have to stay overnight if they get delayed.  

Mine does, but we live in a suburb of a major city, as is L's college. Even then though, it can be tough. L's school required checkout within 24 hours of their last final, but there is only one express bus a day between the two cities. There simply wasn't enough time to finish the final, teach the last two online classes, do the check out process, catch an Uber or take the subway, get to the bus station, and catch the bus on Friday, which left my kid kicked out of the dorm four hours before the bus departed, in the remnants of a tornado system. L took an Uber to an off campus coffee shop and spent most of the time there, but that's not ideal during COVID, then another Uber to wait on the platform, and then a 7 hour bus trip, the first half of it through a severe weather alert. It was pretty anxiety producing. 

 

When I was in college, I had to catch a bus to get to the airport, and then fly home. It would have been a three day bus trip-or drive, and almost every year I ended up being able to fly home in Spring for free because of airline snafus. I also once got snowed in and was only saved from sleeping in an airport overnight because the pilot on the flight I was supposed to be on told me to go with the flight crew to the hotel and pointed out to the management that if they didn't give me a room, they would be responsible for making a teen girl sleep in the airport alone. Normally, teens can't check into hotels, so that makes it hard if you do end up somewhere stranded. Part of what had L so anxious was that if the bus had been cancelled due to weather, there was no place to go (in actuality, DH has several co-workers there who would have been more than willing to pick L up and give a place to stay until either the bus ran the next day or we could drive there-and L has several on campus friends who are local and would likely have had parents willing to do the same ). 

 

It's a mess, especially at winter break where weather often IS bad. (Although tornadoes are atypical...)

 

 

 

[Bootsie]

5 hours ago, kiwik said:

How come kids don't catch buses home?   Do they have so much stuff it is impossible? It just always seems a bit inefficient to drive so far to pick them up you have to stay overnight if they get delayed.  

It really depends on the location of the school and the location of home whether this is practical or not.  DD went to school almost 275 miles from home, but there was a FLIX bus option that was fairly convenient.  She had several times of day that were options and the bus took about the same amount of time as driving.  However, she was once delayed by three days because of an ice and snow storm in Texas that shut down parts of I-35 for several days and the bus could not run.

[ieta_cassiopeia]

Also, buses may not be able to get home either, if there is a storm...

[Shoeless]

9 hours ago, kiwik said:

How come kids don't catch buses home?   Do they have so much stuff it is impossible? It just always seems a bit inefficient to drive so far to pick them up you have to stay overnight if they get delayed.  

The US is really BIG. It can take days on a bus to get from place to place. And the bus is awful. I rode a bus from Chicago to Rapid City, South Dakota. It took nearly 3 days. I hope I never have to spend 3 days on a bus ever again. 

Amarillo, TX to Chicago, Il is like going from Paris to Copenhagen. It's FAR. 

[Faith-manor]

It is a 24 hour bus ride to go 7 hours from there to here and that is if they don't cancel due to a blizzard and leave the students stranded in some hamlet along the way. That has most definitely happened.

I made it home and roads were decent today, just a few squirrelly patches getting to 75, and then totally fine from there. I am very happy I made the run. Some students from the school tried to make it out Friday night after dark, and that didn't end well though no one was hurt. Phew! But ya, no thanks. The down state young drivers from south of US 10 don't have enough experience that I am comfortable with my son riding with them. We were safe, comfy, cozy in our hotel. Yes, it was expensive. But I will take that expense over the risk of something terrible happening to him. And our insurance company charges an unholy amount of money to insure someone under 25 to keep a car up there. It is crazy! $200 a month. Over four years, me driving when the weather is not good so he isn't tempted to "catch a ride" is way way cheaper. 

I did check into a plane ticket from the "International" airport up there. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. $1054.00 yes, you read that number correctly. To go 7 hours, 450 miles. And it would have been canceled anyway! LOL

 

[Kassia]

Glad you made it back.  What an adventure!  

[TravelingChris]

On 12/10/2021 at 2:58 PM, PinkTulip said:

 

I am so  happy you are home.

[Faith-manor]

2 hours ago, MissLemon said:

The US is really BIG. It can take days on a bus to get from place to place. And the bus is awful. I rode a bus from Chicago to Rapid City, South Dakota. It took nearly 3 days. I hope I never have to spend 3 days on a bus ever again. 

Amarillo, TX to Chicago, Il is like going from Paris to Copenhagen. It's FAR. 

My sister and daughter did it when they were coming home from Arizona on Amtrak. A freight train derailed on the tracks, so instead of starting out on the train, Amtrak brought in a big bus, and drove them some ridiculous distance out of the way, to pick up the train in Texas on a different set of tracks. It was not particularly pleasant.

[Shoeless]

3 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

My sister and daughter did it when they were coming home from Arizona on Amtrak. A freight train derailed on the tracks, so instead of starting out on the train, Amtrak brought in a big bus, and drove them some ridiculous distance out of the way, to pick up the train in Texas on a different set of tracks. It was not particularly pleasant.

Yeah, the bus is really not great for long distances. I sometimes took Greyhound from Buffalo, NY to NYC and it was a (mentally) loooooong night.

[2squared]

If the buses and train options in the US were more like public transportation in big cities, I would love a bus/train option. I puffy heart love public transportation. 
 

Instead, I live in the middle of nowhere hours from public transportation. We own as many vehicles as we have drivers, and the vehicles are heavily used. 

[historically accurate]

On 12/12/2021 at 6:12 AM, kiwik said:

How come kids don't catch buses home?   Do they have so much stuff it is impossible? It just always seems a bit inefficient to drive so far to pick them up you have to stay overnight if they get delayed.  

As other people said, it's brutal on the bus.

I rode the bus from Lexinton KY home (about a 9 hour normal drive) during college. It was usually about 20ish hours with 3 layovers. It was awful, but my parents often worked 6 days a week, so it was the option for me as a plane cost 4x as much.

We did look into it for oldest who is in Huntsville AL, about 10-11 hours away from home for college. It's about 50 hours on the route, has 8 stops including 4 layovers (one from 11:20 pm - 3 am, which may not be altogether safe). It is only $101 for a one way ticket though. I just made the run Sat/Sun - it's a long drive, but doable. Unfortunately, I feel sore and behind for the entire week after, but I just can't send her on a bus.

Edited December 13, 2021 by historically accurate

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'm glad your home safe, and it's still worth a complaint to residential services and the dean of students. 

It's understandable that someone in authority would need to check the room out. (My son's roommate was famous for leaving dairy or meat in the unplugged fridge.)

What is unreasonable is that only one RA, who has their own exam schedule, can check out students for that hall/floor/dorm. There ought to be a duty RA schedule so that a couple are available all day. If that's not sufficient, then paid college staff should cover the gaps.

It should not take a series of consecutive miracles to leave at the end of term. 

 

Our oldest went to Virginia Tech, which has a lot of students from NY/NJ area. There were a couple years with bad storms around Thanksgiving, such that 95 & 81 were unsafe. But students weren't allowed to stay in the dorms after Wednesday or return before Sunday. At one point a severe  incoming storm and a flurry of angry parents convinced them to change policy and keep the dorms accessible through Thanksgiving. 

[Faith-manor]

2 hours ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

I'm glad your home safe, and it's still worth a complaint to residential services and the dean of students. 

It's understandable that someone in authority would need to check the room out. (My son's roommate was famous for leaving dairy or meat in the unplugged fridge.)

What is unreasonable is that only one RA, who has their own exam schedule, can check out students for that hall/floor/dorm. There ought to be a duty RA schedule so that a couple are available all day. If that's not sufficient, then paid college staff should cover the gaps.

It should not take a series of consecutive miracles to leave at the end of term. 

 

Our oldest went to Virginia Tech, which has a lot of students from NY/NJ area. There were a couple years with bad storms around Thanksgiving, such that 95 & 81 were unsafe. But students weren't allowed to stay in the dorms after Wednesday or return before Sunday. At one point a severe  incoming storm and a flurry of angry parents convinced them to change policy and keep the dorms accessible through Thanksgiving. 

What griped my cheese was that the salaried, non student, resident director for the dorm was NOT checking students out! That is unacceptable!

[Faith-manor]

On 12/13/2021 at 9:07 AM, historically accurate said:

As other people said, it's brutal on the bus.

I rode the bus from Lexinton KY home (about a 9 hour normal drive) during college. It was usually about 20ish hours with 3 layovers. It was awful, but my parents often worked 6 days a week, so it was the option for me as a plane cost 4x as much.

We did look into it for oldest who is in Huntsville AL, about 10-11 hours away from home for college. It's about 50 hours on the route, has 8 stops including 4 layovers (one from 11:20 pm - 3 am, which may not be altogether safe). It is only $101 for a one way ticket though. I just made the run Sat/Sun - it's a long drive, but doable. Unfortunately, I feel sore and behind for the entire week after, but I just can't send her on a bus.

That is where I am at. And when middle ds went to WMU, we thought we would be able to use the train. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Amtrak if on time and it never is, picks up in Kzoo two hours after the forms close so students congregate down there because there is nothing to do close by, no McD's with WIFI, etc. But Amtrak doesn't like that and gave them a hard time about getting there too early so they began locking the station up leaving the students out in the cold. Then it dumps, IF on time, at 11:30 pm at a station 35 minutes from our house. But it is never on time so it is about 1 am when it arrives to a locked up station in not the best neighborhood. Going back? One pick up time 6 am ish, and again never leaves Port Huron on time so it begins the route late. It is a 6 hour ride at that point back to campus. And it costs the same in ticket price has it costs me to make the run round trip in the car. So I made those runs until he moved permanently to Kalamazoo, and now is moving to grad school out of state.

Michigan is a joke for public transport. But part of that is because the Big Three automakers have always lobbied heavily against any kind of robust public transportation. They want to sell cars, and if people in urban areas could get along without every adult in the family owning one, it would put a crimp in their style. The Michigan legislature is only all too happy to capitulate to corporate America in a way that probably makes even some federal legislatures envious!. I mean DTE has such a great deal here that they can net 900million in profit and pay no taxes among many many other deals made. So we drive all the freaking time because we don't have options as a family that has had three kids in college at one time. We can't afford to buy and insure three vehicles for them plus two for us in a state with the highest car insurance rates in the nation.