If you and your spouse don't agree on risk assessment/management

[saraha]

How are you getting along? How are you dealing with a fundamental difference in your approach to risk assessment for coronavirus?

Thanks

[Guest]

Dh and I are not perfectly matched in this. He has fluctuated throughout the year, because he hears conflicting information. We have argued, I will tell you that. Fortunately, he is generally the less social of the pair of us, and I am the one who ordinarily plans things like parties, dinners and outings. He won't take the bull by the horns and, say, plan a Christmas dinner with extended family, because he's just not the one who arranges such things to begin with. So in a way, his executive function weaknesses there help me out! 

For the most part, he just grudgingly goes along with my standards. Also, I am helped by our state because we are under a mask mandate and a lot of other restrictions, so he goes along with those things though he wouldn't choose to if it were not an order. 

We just argued this morning about something regarding Christmas because he thought his sister might come into town and I said, "Well, she's not staying here!" Which irked him. But then I heard him talking to her on the phone and I don't think she was planning to do that anyway. He told her our governor is forbidding it without quarantining (inter-state travel) or a negative COVID test. It didn't sound like she was trying to do that anyway. 

[Elizabeth86]

I'm feeling rather resentful. I can't stand I don't have a choice in whether or not I'm exposed. I'm feeling resentful my parents will be alone on Christmas. 

[Kassia]

We don't agree, but most of the time we can work it out so that we're both satisfied.  I'm much more cautious and careful than DH is and he thinks I'm overreacting, but goes along with my wishes most of the time.  The hardest part was when his dad died over the summer and MIL insisted on regular funeral services.  He had to make some difficult choices at that time.

[forty-two]

1 hour ago, Kassia said:

We don't agree, but most of the time we can work it out so that we're both satisfied.  I'm much more cautious and careful than DH is and he thinks I'm overreacting, but goes along with my wishes most of the time.

This is kind of where we are, although in the grand scheme of things we are actually fairly similar.  We are both serious about masking, and neither of us are terribly social people in the first place.  We are more on the same page than it sometimes feels. Eta: We've had some sharp disagreements as we've come to our current near-consensus.

 

2 hours ago, Choirfarm3 said:

But what is going to be hard is when this is over. I am upset with some church members and cannot look at my friends the same way. I mentioned how I don't see how I can be friends when Covid is gone. He thinks I am judgemental. He would probably be acting like them if not for me.  So I don't know how we resolve that.

Hugs. FWIW, for my own sanity I've decided that I can't let people's approach to Covid become a litmus test.  People are complex - a failure in one area, even a huge failure, doesn't negate what is good about them (and likewise, what is good doesn't negate what is bad).  I can love people who are wrong about things that matter - I can even like people who are wrong about things that matter.  I can strongly disagree with them, be disappointed or even disillusioned about them in one area, even one that *matters*, without writing them off entirely.  And I hope they can return the favor. 

(Why this is for my sanity is because the area I am in is, by and large, not taking things very seriously.  I'm an outlier, and I thank God that both my dh and our immediate families are largely in agreement.  Our church (where dh is pastor) is an outlier for insisting on masking and social distancing.  Poor dh has been the second-most concerned person at our church (with me as most concerned) since the beginning, and feels caught between a rock and a hard place.  I'm also thanking God that our state has a mask mandate, because most people are masking only where required and nowhere else.  (And honestly, I respect that they are following the law even though they don't want to.)  I don't want to write off the majority of people that I know, and I don't want them to write me off either.  We can (and probably do) think each other is mutually insane over this, but we don't have to reject each other over it.)

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by forty-two

[I talk to the trees]

Dd and I are both higher risk (her due to multiple autoimmune issues, and me due to asthma,) and I am an only child, and the only one to care for my extremely high risk parents, so this became a hill that I was willing to die on (or preferably not die on.) Dh has always had horrible hygiene habits- never covering coughs or sneezes, leaving used tissues lying about, not washing hands after blowing nose, etc...- and I have always tolerated it, while trying to remind him of the importance of not spreading germs. I am not willing to risk DD’s health or that of my parents, and he wants to continue to be around his own parents who don’t believe Covid is a thing, so he moved out to his family's old farmhouse until the pandemic passes. (Yes, we have other issues, but this one was not one that I was willing to compromise on, and I think he realizes that.) 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Our government has been my ally on this. And since dh is not going against government rules in public, that saves me. Except in our tiny (less than ten people there in person) church. He doesn’t mask with them and won’t ask them to mask. He knows that I think that they are sinning by going against the government mandate there. But he also knows that I am not God the Holy Spirit. I am not in charge of deciding if they really are sinning and I am certainly not in charge of convicting them of that sin. I am just one of the people not attending in person and won’t until I have been vaccinated. 
 

He is a nurse who knew some of the first people to die of Covid in the US. He knows that it is not a hoax. But he believes that “everyone will get it sooner or later”.   And he’s been influenced by political pundits. He knows that he is my primary disease vector. I have to put his “gambles” at church in the Lord’s hands. 

[Carrie12345]

Dh and I are actually pretty close in our risk assessment, but he is very slightly more lax than I am. And he is the one who got infected, most likely in the setting in which I’ve always told him he was too lax.  That said, he and dd (who was also there) swear up and down that all protocols were followed.  Of course it’s entirely possible that they were.

I did fear this would happen. Actually, I feared he’d bring it home and we’d all get sick.  Fortunately we have aa decent isolation set up and no one else has shown symptoms since we locked him up.

[saraha]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Dh and I are actually pretty close in our risk assessment, but he is very slightly more lax than I am. And he is the one who got infected, most likely in the setting in which I’ve always told him he was too lax.  That said, he and dd (who was also there) swear up and down that all protocols were followed.  Of course it’s entirely possible that they were.

I did fear this would happen. Actually, I feared he’d bring it home and we’d all get sick.  Fortunately we have aa decent isolation set up and no one else has shown symptoms since we locked him up.

I hope both he and your daughter have mild cases and feel better soon

[saraha]

On 12/21/2020 at 9:45 AM, Thatboyofmine said:

He tested positive. 

I'm sorry, that must be so hard. I hope he has a mild case and recovers quickly and that the rest of you don't get sick

[ktgrok]

In general the person with the most knowledge/experience in that matter gets the call. 

Thankfully we agree on Covid stuff. It's other stuff, like if it is okay to hang upside down on the indoor doorway gym with the swing still attached, over a foam mat, that is an issue, lol. 

[Bootsie]

DH and I don't differ tremendously, although I come down a bit more on the cautious end than he does.  It hasn't really been an issue in that there has not been a major decision to be made that we have differed on.  There have been a few short shopping outings, for example, that I would just avoid, but DH does anyway.  DH is the highest risk in our family due to age and some health issues; I am probably more careful about trying to make sure I am not doing something to expose him than he is.  

[fairfarmhand]

On 12/20/2020 at 8:47 PM, forty-two said:

This is kind of where we are, although in the grand scheme of things we are actually fairly similar.  We are both serious about masking, and neither of us are terribly social people in the first place.  We are more on the same page than it sometimes feels. Eta: We've had some sharp disagreements as we've come to our current near-consensus.

 

Hugs. FWIW, for my own sanity I've decided that I can't let people's approach to Covid become a litmus test.  People are complex - a failure in one area, even a huge failure, doesn't negate what is good about them (and likewise, what is good doesn't negate what is bad).  I can love people who are wrong about things that matter - I can even like people who are wrong about things that matter.  I can strongly disagree with them, be disappointed or even disillusioned about them in one area, even one that *matters*, without writing them off entirely.  And I hope they can return the favor. 

(Why this is for my sanity is because the area I am in is, by and large, not taking things very seriously.  I'm an outlier, and I thank God that both my dh and our immediate families are largely in agreement.  Our church (where dh is pastor) is an outlier for insisting on masking and social distancing.  Poor dh has been the second-most concerned person at our church (with me as most concerned) since the beginning, and feels caught between a rock and a hard place.  I'm also thanking God that our state has a mask mandate, because most people are masking only where required and nowhere else.  (And honestly, I respect that they are following the law even though they don't want to.)  I don't want to write off the majority of people that I know, and I don't want them to write me off either.  We can (and probably do) think each other is mutually insane over this, but we don't have to reject each other over it.)

 

 

It helps me to think of it in terms of the facts that many many people are manipulated by political influences, media, and all sorts of other interests due to their social media and news consumption. Some people are more easily manipulated than others.

On 12/21/2020 at 12:23 AM, Jean in Newcastle said:

Our government has been my ally on this. And since dh is not going against government rules in public, that saves me. Except in our tiny (less than ten people there in person) church. He doesn’t mask with them and won’t ask them to mask. He knows that I think that they are sinning by going against the government mandate there. But he also knows that I am not God the Holy Spirit. I am not in charge of deciding if they really are sinning and I am certainly not in charge of convicting them of that sin. I am just one of the people not attending in person and won’t until I have been vaccinated. 
 

He is a nurse who knew some of the first people to die of Covid in the US. He knows that it is not a hoax. But he believes that “everyone will get it sooner or later”.   And he’s been influenced by political pundits. He knows that he is my primary disease vector. I have to put his “gambles” at church in the Lord’s hands. 

That's a very good point.

[Pen]

On 12/20/2020 at 5:52 PM, Thatboyofmine said:

Dh won't mask anymore, not because of an anti-govt thing, but because he just cannot stand that mask.  🙄.  In his defense, he does not go into stores (except one occasionally and they don't care at all about masking 🤦🏻‍♀️), so to some degree, it's a moot point.  He should be masked at work--they all should be.  Guess what, 2 coworkers have tested positive this week, one is his BFF, and dh started with flu symptoms this morning.  He will be tested in the am, sure it's positive.  He said this is the first time he's praying for a flu diagnosis.  I will not tell him 'I told you so' and if ds, ds' gf, and I are positive, he will be overcome with guilt anyway.  The crappy person in me wants to smack him tonight. 

 

I am sorry to hear that.

 I hope you will all be okay. 
 

🙏

I know people now who have gotten CV despite mask wearing.
 

I increasingly think that in situations (often like work) where there is long duration of exposure in a confined space that masks don’t actually help all that much .  For a short trip into a store I still think they can help both the wearer if it’s the type mask to do that, and to reduce what’s perhaps going out as droplets while people speak or reduce getting onto the produce piles as people stand over them 

 

(I had thought masks might help reduce severity by reducing viral load, but I am not sure about that now. I think there’s a better equivalence between low severity of illness  high Vitamin D level in people I know now than correlate of mask wearing and low severity. ) 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Pen

[Pam in CT]

@Carrie12345 and @Thatboyofmine  holding your loved ones in the light. May their cases be mild and their recuperations complete.

 

My husband and I are on more or less the same big-picture page. It's managing the lines with our nearly-adult kids that has turned out to be trickier for us.  They're too old for My Way or the Highway; and this has hit them quite hard mentally/emotionally. We've all had to step up our communication / compromise games.

We've also struggled with having to move the line as circumstances in our area have shifted. Our part of CT was one of the worst hit very early hot spots... then we inched down over the summer to be among the lowest incidence in the country... and now we've flared up to almost as bad as we were in April (sigh). So we've gone from total lockdown, to gradually getting to the point where we were doing outdoor picnics and patio gatherings and occasional indoor setting activities for the by-then-emotionally-basket-case-kids, to (sigh) back to near-total lockdown.  And the pace with which some of us have arrived at the "Time to Readjust the Covid Line!" decision has varied across the family.

This is all.so.hard.

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

I increasingly think that in situations (often like work) where there is long duration of exposure in a confined space that masks don’t actually help all that much .

Last study I read, 87% of people testing positive in our state said they were strictly or reasonably strictly masking. Ineffective masks make no difference, imagine that. Wearing cotton knit underwear on your face makes no difference. The majority of what is being worn makes NO DIFFERENCE.

When I go out in the stores now, I hear people ACTIVELY COUGHING IN THE STORE. This completely astonishes me. They knew they had a cough and they cannot guarantee they don't have it but it's SO important that they be in that store (that did offer pick up and online shopping) that they just have to be there.

And as for any differences in our house, well I'm not very polite about it. The percentages are just now getting high enough in our state that we are starting to know people who've gotten it. He makes some effort when he knows and isn't flagrant overall. I just wish he wore a mask that was worth more than underwear on your face. I guess I'll decide how upset I am when it happens. 

[Tenaj]

1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

@Carrie12345 and @Thatboyofmine  holding your loved ones in the light. May their cases be mild and their recuperations complete.

 

My husband and I are on more or less the same big-picture page. It's managing the lines with our nearly-adult kids that has turned out to be trickier for us.  They're too old for My Way or the Highway; and this has hit them quite hard mentally/emotionally. We've all had to step up our communication / compromise games.

 

This is all.so.hard.

We've been on the same page most of the time but adult children  and their families have made this all more complicated!  I'm trying to be flexible about it and reasonable but it's hard when you know that parts of the family are not being as careful as they could and then you multiply that by the risks we've accepted as reasonable within our own household  and all of a sudden you realize that you're exposed on lots of levels even when you are trying hard to be careful. 

I'm a little tense this week because there have been some sarcastic remarks made within the family regarding activities vs. Covid.  I'm weary of being the bad guy that's always saying that somethings probably not a good idea.  Family game nights involving multiple households are just not worth the risk right now  but I was met by a sarcastic remark when I expressed my opinion. 

[Pawz4me]

32 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Last study I read, 87% of people testing positive in our state said they were strictly or reasonably strictly masking.

Just based on what I've personally observed -- people are frequently lying about masking, social distancing, etc. I know people who claim they're being very careful, wearing their masks all the time, avoiding restaurants, social distancing, etc. And yet the pictures they post on FB tell me a completely different story. I'm not sure it's intentional lying. I tend to think they believe they're being much more careful than they are. And the cynical part of me believes that a portion of people who get Covid probably want to re-write history in their own mind, so that they don't feel responsible for their own predicament. So . . do I trust polls like that? Nope.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Pawz4me

[mlktwins]

57 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

When I go out in the stores now, I hear people ACTIVELY COUGHING IN THE STORE. This completely astonishes me. They knew they had a cough and they cannot guarantee they don't have it but it's SO important that they be in that store (that did offer pick up and online shopping) that they just have to be there.

This is why I haven't been in stores more than a handful of times since mid-March.  I don't trust people to do the right thing anymore 😞 !!!  Very sad...

Edited December 22, 2020 by mlktwins

[Pam in CT]

re COVID-line mismatches between branches of extended family

7 minutes ago, JanOH said:

We've been on the same page most of the time but adult children  and their families have made this all more complicated!  I'm trying to be flexible about it and reasonable but it's hard when you know that parts of the family are not being as careful as they could and then you multiply that by the risks we've accepted as reasonable within our own household  and all of a sudden you realize that you're exposed on lots of levels even when you are trying hard to be careful. 

I'm a little tense this week because there have been some sarcastic remarks made within the family regarding activities vs. Covid.  I'm weary of being the bad guy that's always saying that somethings probably not a good idea.  Family game nights involving multiple households are just not worth the risk right now  but I was met by a sarcastic remark when I expressed my opinion. 

Yes, it's so very hard. Our kids are a bit younger than yours -- not yet married with families of their own -- our eldest is mostly-launched, living in NYC; and the other two were off at college/boarding school until both schools abruptly ejected them and everyone, including the eldest, came back to the nest to quarantine through the worst of it (when NYC was super-weird and eerie).

Since mid-summer all three have drifted back to their respective "real lives," where they are all *immensely happier* than back in their childhood rooms and (sigh) childhood roles... but now since Thanksgiving the younger two are back at least through end-January; and who knows if their schools really will allow on-campus classes then.

It's an awkward age to be navigating slightly different COVID lines, because they really aren't children anymore; My Rules My House ultimatums will only increase the rancor level, and we're not REALLY going to eject them in a pandemic anyway. And they really were suffering from real anxiety, isolation, stress. So we've been forced into a lot of hard balancing-act conversations. It's all so hard, and it's been so long. 

 

If there is a sufficiently sized segment of the extended family willing to try it, we have regular game nights virtually, and it really does work. Scattergories and hearts seem to be the two with greatest staying power in our crowd, but we've tried a number of other ones. It's been a major way we've been able to stay connected.

[Jaybee]

4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

When I go out in the stores now, I hear people ACTIVELY COUGHING IN THE STORE. This completely astonishes me. They knew they had a cough and they cannot guarantee they don't have it but it's SO important that they be in that store (that did offer pick up and online shopping) that they just have to be there.

I mask and try to be careful, though I live in a very "uncareful" place. But I cough fairly often just in the normal scheme of things, and it makes me anxious when I cough in a store. It could be covid, but I easily cough by just strangling a little on my own spit, or by walking by the detergent, etc. 

[Pen]

4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Last study I read, 87% of people testing positive in our state said they were strictly or reasonably strictly masking. Ineffective masks make no difference, imagine that. Wearing cotton knit underwear on your face makes no difference. The majority of what is being worn makes NO DIFFERENCE.

When I go out in the stores now, I hear people ACTIVELY COUGHING IN THE STORE. This completely astonishes me. They knew they had a cough and they cannot guarantee they don't have it but it's SO important that they be in that store (that did offer pick up and online shopping) that they just have to be there.

And as for any differences in our house, well I'm not very polite about it. The percentages are just now getting high enough in our state that we are starting to know people who've gotten it. He makes some effort when he knows and isn't flagrant overall. I just wish he wore a mask that was worth more than underwear on your face. I guess I'll decide how upset I am when it happens. 

clearly lace underwear makes no difference 

 

however
even if they are quite good, Happy Mask say, I think a lot of aerosols go out around edges rather than through filter and that in an enclosed space for a long time that it builds up the ambient viral load

[theelfqueen]

4 hours ago, mlktwins said:

This is why I haven't been in stores more than a handful of times since mid-March.  I don't trust people to do the right thing anymore 😞 !!!  Very sad...

I have asthma that causes me to cough, sometimes a lot and basically out of nowhere - often triggered by someone's perfume. I don't have a cough. It isn't contagious, I promise 🙂

[sassenach]

On 12/20/2020 at 4:58 PM, saraha said:

How are you getting along? How are you dealing with a fundamental difference in your approach to risk assessment for coronavirus?

Thanks

It's been tough. We've had a few big fights. We came together yesterday and really committed to putting our one-ness above Covid and its friends, the news and social media. 

But yeah, the longer this has gone on, the harder it's gotten.

[sassenach]

6 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Last study I read, 87% of people testing positive in our state said they were strictly or reasonably strictly masking. Ineffective masks make no difference, imagine that. Wearing cotton knit underwear on your face makes no difference. The majority of what is being worn makes NO DIFFERENCE.

When I go out in the stores now, I hear people ACTIVELY COUGHING IN THE STORE. This completely astonishes me. They knew they had a cough and they cannot guarantee they don't have it but it's SO important that they be in that store (that did offer pick up and online shopping) that they just have to be there.

And as for any differences in our house, well I'm not very polite about it. The percentages are just now getting high enough in our state that we are starting to know people who've gotten it. He makes some effort when he knows and isn't flagrant overall. I just wish he wore a mask that was worth more than underwear on your face. I guess I'll decide how upset I am when it happens. 

Dh brought that study to me and I pointed out that I bet 100% of the people who those Covid-carrying mask-wearers encountered were probably happy that those people masked. After all, that is the point- to protect others.

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Jaybee said:

I mask and try to be careful, though I live in a very "uncareful" place. But I cough fairly often just in the normal scheme of things, and it makes me anxious when I cough in a store. It could be covid, but I easily cough by just strangling a little on my own spit, or by walking by the detergent, etc. 

 

I also tend to cough from detergent aisles, fragrance products on people including fragranced hand sanitizers. I don’t assume cough necessarily means sick. 

[hopeallgoeswell]

We are both analytical and logical, thankfully.  When we disagree, both sides leave feelings at the door, present the evidence, and we go with whatever has the most clear, unbiased data behind it.  

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

clearly lace underwear makes no difference 

 

however
even if they are quite good, Happy Mask say, I think a lot of aerosols go out around edges rather than through filter and that in an enclosed space for a long time that it builds up the ambient viral load

@PeterPan

someone shared this with me - it sort of fits with my impression that over time a lot of aerosol escapes from masks as why more people I know have gotten it when wearing good masks in a diligent way (not lace thongs draped over)

https://youtu.be/hJpS_jajub0

https://youtu.be/hJpS_jajub0

Edited December 23, 2020 by Pen

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, Jaybee said:

But I cough fairly often just in the normal scheme of things, and it makes me anxious when I cough in a store. It could be covid, but I easily cough by just strangling a little on my own spit, or by walking by the detergent, etc. 

But there's a difference between that and a sick, yucky cough, which is what I am hearing in stores. I'm with you that that occasional dust, something is getting you cough makes you feel embarrassed. But that's not the kind of cough I'm hearing. They're actually coming in with sick coughs. Could be flu, could be anything. I have asthma and have a pretty strict I don't want to be around your cough policy anyway. Now I just find it astonishing. 

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

clearly lace underwear makes no difference 

LOL Love this! I actually know someone who was *crocheting* masks with lots of holes and then putting a kleenex in. I kid you not! 

[Lecka]

I think indoor dining is a big area locally, where a lot of people who would say they are doing what is expected and making reasonable precautions, are also indoor dining, because it is allowed and it is doing the right thing to wear a mask when not at your table, but take it off while seated.

I wish we had better contact tracing locally to really have an idea on things like this, about what is a riskier setting locally.  We really don’t have that locally.  

[Lecka]

I saw a mom and daughter in matching crocheted masks in April, when I first started to see anyone wearing a mask.  I thought they were so cute!  

I would be surprised to see it now!

They could be used for a lot of things for dolls or teddy bears, though.  

[Emba]

There’sa lot of not talking about Covid. We each do our own thing re: masks, and he backs me up on When I tell the kids they must wear theirs. But he doesn’t make them wear masks if he takes them somewhere.

 It’s hard. It’s very frustrating.

[saraha]

3 hours ago, sassenach said:

It's been tough. We've had a few big fights. We came together yesterday and really committed to putting our one-ness above Covid and its friends, the news and social media. 

But yeah, the longer this has gone on, the harder it's gotten.

I'm sorry

[Bootsie]

So I have been wondering... if you are wearing a mask and feel like you are going to sneeze or cough, do you sneeze into the mask, or do you pull it up and sneeze into a cloth?

[Drama Llama]

2 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

So I have been wondering... if you are wearing a mask and feel like you are going to sneeze or cough, do you sneeze into the mask, or do you pull it up and sneeze into a cloth?

I cover my masked nose with my elbow, because it's just reflexive, and then if I need to I'd leave the setting and change my mask outdoors, or if I'min a hospital room, I go in the bathroom and change.  

Taking it off when you're sneezing would defeat the point. 

[wathe]

25 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

So I have been wondering... if you are wearing a mask and feel like you are going to sneeze or cough, do you sneeze into the mask, or do you pull it up and sneeze into a cloth?

I do the same as B&H.  Sneeze into mask.  My elbow wants to come up to cover as habit - I have to restrain myself to not actually touch the mask.  Then change the mask.    When masks were strictly rationed it was very gross.

[Frances]

11 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Last study I read, 87% of people testing positive in our state said they were strictly or reasonably strictly masking. Ineffective masks make no difference, imagine that. Wearing cotton knit underwear on your face makes no difference. The majority of what is being worn makes NO DIFFERENCE.

At a minimum, I’m guessing the vast majority are not wearing them at home (including when others are in their homes) or at any gatherings they attend at other’s homes. Also, many are probably not wearing them in restaurants while eating or while eating with others at work. My brother is almost certain that’s how he and his wife got it, at a restaurant. There are very few people working in person at my workplace, but when I had to stop by at lunchtime a week ago to pick something up, there were unmasked groups of people eating together everywhere. Unless the survey is carefully defining what masking means and then asking about compliance, the results are likely meaningless.

[Carrie12345]

16 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Just based on what I've personally observed -- people are frequently lying about masking, social distancing, etc. I know people who claim they're being very careful, wearing their masks all the time, avoiding restaurants, social distancing, etc. And yet the pictures they post on FB tell me a completely different story. I'm not sure it's intentional lying. I tend to think they believe they're being much more careful than they are. And the cynical part of me believes that a portion of people who get Covid probably want to re-write history in their own mind, so that they don't feel responsible for their own predicament. So . . do I trust polls like that? Nope.

Yes to people believing what they’re saying. 
Our friend who probably infected dh (not intentionally, of course!) has been flabbergasted. He wears a mask, his hands are raw, etc.  But I’ve seen him de-mask in a room, I know he sees relatives, and I know what those relatives do for work, for fun, and where they stand on COVID. But he doesn’t see that as a real factor, and I just don’t understand. 
 

I know that I have taken some calculated risks, but I’ve been able to call them calculated risks. 

[mlktwins]

14 hours ago, theelfqueen said:

I have asthma that causes me to cough, sometimes a lot and basically out of nowhere - often triggered by someone's perfume. I don't have a cough. It isn't contagious, I promise 🙂

@theelfqueen I get that!  My mom is gone now, but she always had a little cough - a tickle she called it.  She always carried cough drops and I could find her in any store because of it 🙂.  But...in my mind, because of the pandemic, my assumption is that people with conditions (like asthma) would maybe be utilizing curb-side pickup and other options rather than risk being in a store.

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, mlktwins said:

@theelfqueen I get that!  My mom is gone now, but she always had a little cough - a tickle she called it.  She always carried cough drops and I could find her in any store because of it 🙂.  But...in my mind, because of the pandemic, my assumption is that people with conditions (like asthma) would maybe be utilizing curb-side pickup and other options rather than risk being in a store.

IME it's normal for women especially to develop an easy-to-trigger cough as they age. My grandmothers both had it, and now that I'm approaching 60 it seems to be happening to me. I've discussed the phenomenon with other women my age and they all agree it's a thing. But I don't have any respiratory related issues. Neither did either of my grandmothers. It's just a thing with some people, but not a thing to worry about or that puts them at higher risk.

[mlktwins]

8 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

IME it's normal for women especially to develop an easy-to-trigger cough as they age. My grandmothers both had it, and now that I'm approaching 60 it seems to be happening to me. I've discussed the phenomenon with other women my age and they all agree it's a thing. But I don't have any respiratory related issues. Neither did either of my grandmothers. It's just a thing with some people, but not a thing to worry about or that puts them at higher risk.

I understand.  I was responding to her saying she had asthma, which I believe can be a higher risk.  It's all good.  I have seen and heard so much at this point, that I don't trust most people anymore.  My issue and my opinion.  I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that feels this way.  

[I talk to the trees]

6 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

IME it's normal for women especially to develop an easy-to-trigger cough as they age. My grandmothers both had it, and now that I'm approaching 60 it seems to be happening to me. I've discussed the phenomenon with other women my age and they all agree it's a thing. But I don't have any respiratory related issues. Neither did either of my grandmothers. It's just a thing with some people, but not a thing to worry about or that puts them at higher risk.

Yep. My mother's MD calls it a stress induced bronchospasm. I can always tell when my mother is getting worked up over something in a conversation because she starts clearing her throat and reaches for a cough drop. 

[AmandaVT]

DH and I are mostly on the same page, but even though I consider myself very cautious, I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm a walking covid germ. I avoid most non-essential shopping trips, but have been to staples a couple of times. I always wear my mask and wash my hands/sanitize very very frequently. But, I work in person in school, so that means I'm in contact w/ a ton of people every day. So I'm ok with going to our office to work my other job on the weekend even though I may see someone else in passing. He's been working from home even though he has his own (well ventilated) office because he doesn't think seeing co-workers in passing is safe. I'm ok with getting take out or eating Christmas cookies from a colleague. He called them 'covid cookies' and refused to touch them. So we're close, but my tolerance for risk is a bit higher because I go out every day and see lots of humans (masked). 

So far we're ok - he'd have preferred I take the unpaid leave of absence we were all offered this year, but we would have had to pay for health insurance out of pocket again and he ended up being ok with me going back. If I were a classroom teacher, I may have considered it more though. 

[Bootsie]

9 hours ago, mlktwins said:

@theelfqueen I get that!  My mom is gone now, but she always had a little cough - a tickle she called it.  She always carried cough drops and I could find her in any store because of it 🙂.  But...in my mind, because of the pandemic, my assumption is that people with conditions (like asthma) would maybe be utilizing curb-side pickup and other options rather than risk being in a store.

I have been using some videos (from pre-covid) in teaching some of my classes online.  It is amazing how much coughing I notice by the speakers and those in the crowd in those videos that I never paid attention to before.  DH always has a cough this time of year from allergens.  His cough is not due to COVID.  But, should he be asymptomatic and cough due to his allergies, the cough would propel droplets that are infected more so than if he were just walking along through a store not coughing (or singing, or speaking loudly)

[Tap]

Wellp, It sounds funny to type it here....but I am divorcing him over it. Haha!  Joking, but not really. Dh and I have been talking about divorcing for 3 years. We are amicable, but just not in a relationship anymore. He went to Sturgis in August. It was the final straw. It wasn't a fight or huge issue, but it was the moment that I decided I was done.  He agreed to quarantine when he came back and wasn't a jerk about it, but it was the moment that I realized, that we really, truly, had different lives. He went on a vacation, that was all about him and his wants in the middle of a pandemic. My dd 14 and I are both high risk for COVID and complications.   On top of that, I work in healthcare and spend 8 hours a day in an N95 mask, my eyeglasses, and goggles (mandatory). Plus, washing my hands no less than 8-10 times per day, and cleaning a work station 3 times per day. He tosses all caution aside and head into a mass of 40,000 people unmasked for over a week.  Our divorce should be final in a couple months. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Tap

[Terabith]

49 minutes ago, Tap said:

Wellp, It sounds funny to type it here....but I am divorcing him over it. Haha!  Joking but not really. Dh and I have been talking about divorcing for 3 years. We are amicable, but just not in a relationship anymore. He went to Sturgis in August. It was the final straw. It wasn't a fight or huge issue, but it was the moment that I decided I was done.  He agreed to quarantine when he came back and wasn't a jerk about it, but it was the moment that I realized, that we really, truly, had different lives. He went on a vacation, that was all about him and his wants in the middle of a pandemic. My dd 14 and I are both high risk for COVID and complications.   On top of that, I work in healthcare and spend 8 hours a day in an N95 mask, my eyeglasses, and goggles (mandatory). Plus, washing my hands no less than 8-10 times per day, and cleaning a work station 3 times per day. He tosses all caution aside and head into a mass of 40,000 people unmasked for over a week.  Our divorce should be final in a couple months. 

(((((((((((((((Tap)))))))))))))  I'm so sorry.  

[Tap]

15 minutes ago, Terabith said:

(((((((((((((((Tap)))))))))))))  I'm so sorry.  

Thanks. 🙂 But honestly, it was the push I needed. 

[Hilltopmom]

Our problem is we don’t agree on how to handle our young adult still at home who refuses to abide by our risk management decisions but who we do not want to kick out because that would cause worse long term issues for them (dropping out of school, couch surfing, med refusal, etc ).

And I’m teaching in person and tbh probably just as likely to bring it home.

[BlsdMama]

On 12/20/2020 at 6:58 PM, saraha said:

How are you getting along? How are you dealing with a fundamental difference in your approach to risk assessment for coronavirus?

Thanks

It’s not very easy? He’s the more cautious one. I’m the person who doesn’t want the kids to be hermits. I’m trying to give in, but we have this agreement kids can participate in January, assuming numbers don’t take a major climb post Christmas. I think January is going to be a very rough month for us. 
I have no issues wearing a mask, reducing activities, etc., but it has been a long time and my child did State mock trial competition online while her teammates were all together. High school season is just beginning. I’d like for that kiddo to have practice with her small team. I’d like the other daughter to return to her part time job. I miss activities. I also recognize it’s because he worries about me. It’s just hard.