Did I betray the baptismal promises I made for my kids?

[Terabith]

Deleting for now

Edited October 20, 2020 by Terabith

[Rosie_0801]

You kept your promises. It's just that it was a one way promise- from you to them, not them to you.

((hugs Mamma))

I know from your pov this was the most important thing, but if you put on secular glasses, you'll see the relationships as the most important thing. Do what you all need to do to remain emotionally intimate and valuing one another.

[Ausmumof3]

The journeys not over yet though. And you did what you said you’d do.  And school would not have made a difference I don’t think.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

Neither would do Confirmation, and I feel like I failed so completely and utterly at the only thing that mattered.

No you didn’t. You upheld your end of the bargain, so to speak, but none of us can “make” our children embrace a faith system. 

The quote above is literally the exact words my mother said a few years ago, and she said it for the same reason. One of my siblings went to jail and my mother placed the blame upon herself for “failing” to create five kids devoted to the faith and the church. For managing to raise one kid who made a big mistake that’s not only against scripture but is against the law of the land. For raising another who is an atheist. For raising zero kids who fully embrace the faith and live and breathe the church the way they did. 

I think it is difficult to raise a child with the goal of having them embrace any faith system in the modern era. It’s so easy to poke holes in belief systems nowadays. 

[Terabith]

33 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The journeys not over yet though. And you did what you said you’d do.  And school would not have made a difference I don’t think.  

Oh, it did, at least for oldest.  I found out much later they cried through Mass every week their first year.  They were so upset at being denied communion.  They told the priest, “Jesus is right there, but I can’t join in with Him and all the saints and you want to give me a blessing instead of Jesus?  How does that remotely compare?”   By the time anyone told me, they had given up and said they no longer cared about communion.  
 

Younger child told me directly that religion class taught her to bullshit and that it was a useful skill.

[Carrie12345]

There is nothing that my upbringing did to have me “turn” atheist.  I was brought to all the church things, I experienced zero traumas in my life, I didn’t have non-religious friends, I wasn’t rebelling against anything.  I just don’t believe in the existence of any gods.  I appreciate some of the stories of various religious texts. And I’m fine with people believing whatever they do, so long as expectations or restrictions aren’t placed on me.

My mother sometimes expresses similar feelings of having done something “wrong”. After the first time I tried to reassure her, I just got really annoyed with how she was more focused on herself than on the fact that I’m a dang good person who is quite content with where she stands.  Her self-imposed guilt doesn’t give me reason to suddenly believe.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I’m a dang good person who is quite content with where she stands.

This is what I hoped for my kids. I wanted them to be good people, however they arrived at that. So far, so good. 

[Terabith]

They’re both good people.  Youngest I think was wired to doubt.  I’m not surprised about her.  Oldest believed with all their heart until it all turned to ashes.  My mom says I should have made them go to confirmation class, even if they didn’t get confirmed.  But I think it would have pushed them away.  

[Carrie12345]

8 minutes ago, Terabith said:

They’re both good people.  Youngest I think was wired to doubt.  I’m not surprised about her.  Oldest believed with all their heart until it all turned to ashes.  My mom says I should have made them go to confirmation class, even if they didn’t get confirmed.  But I think it would have pushed them away.  

I can tell you that my mom made me go through confirmation even though I told her I didn’t believe. (She also felt I should have made that baptismal promise to my kids even though she knew I had no intention of keeping it.)  The fact that she did that didn’t push me away at all. I was already there.  But I still kind of hate that I stood there and lied. It feels like a very crummy thing to do to a big group of believers!  And that’s why I didn’t do baptisms. Not because it would have hurt my kids in any way, but because I hate the idea of being a liar, particularly in a house of worship that means something very important to the other people there.

(Funny enough, I did get married in a church, at my husband’s request. The minister knew where I stood, so I don’t feel too bad.)

Edited October 19, 2020 by Carrie12345

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Terabith said:

They’re both good people.  Youngest I think was wired to doubt.  I’m not surprised about her.  Oldest believed with all their heart until it all turned to ashes.  My mom says I should have made them go to confirmation class, even if they didn’t get confirmed.  But I think it would have pushed them away.  

It would have, IMHO. Forced faith works about as well as forced marriage. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Carrie12345 said:

But I still kind of hate that I stood there and lied. It feels like a very crummy thing to do to a big group of believers!  And that’s why I didn’t do baptisms.

Same. I did not baptise or christen my kids, because it felt like a lie, and that was even though I was a full-on Christian when my first two kids were born. I felt like I cannot speak for what they will believe, so I was not willing to make those promises. 

I also never had my kids go to VBS, which would have really shocked a lot of people who knew me and my mom would have probably cried. I just remember VBS as being heavily...well, indoctrinating, in my upbringing and I didn’t think it was just to try to instill groupthink in my kids while plying them with ice cream and puppet shows. That never set well with me. 

[regentrude]

No. You did the best you could to introduce your children to, and educate them in, your faith. That is what you promised.

They did not make a promise to choose your religion; their choice, as independent thinking beings, is theirs.
 

 

 

[regentrude]

32 minutes ago, Terabith said:

  Oldest believed with all their heart until it all turned to ashes.  

That was I. I grew up Christian and was a believer and active in the youth group, until as an older teen, I found myself unable to reconcile the concept of a benevolent and omnipotent God with the prevalence of suffering and became appalled by what humans have done in the name of organized religion. I had many conversations with my wonderful minister about that, but he was not able to convince me.

God has given each of us a brain and the freedom to make our own choices. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by regentrude

[ktgrok]

49 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Oh, it did, at least for oldest.  I found out much later they cried through Mass every week their first year.  They were so upset at being denied communion.  They told the priest, “Jesus is right there, but I can’t join in with Him and all the saints and you want to give me a blessing instead of Jesus?  How does that remotely compare?”   By the time anyone told me, they had given up and said they no longer cared about communion.  
 

Younger child told me directly that religion class taught her to bullshit and that it was a useful skill.

Oh, honey, you didn't fail them! The school should have told you how upset your kids were!

But seriously, you did your part. Now let God do his. He's not done with them yet! And many many many very devout adult Christians had times of rejecting the church in their youth. 

And many many many many seemingly devout teens end up turning away from the church later. 

In other words, it ain't over yet!

And I say that as somone who is in a similar situation with one kid. And I DO have serious regrets about how I raised him, regarding faith, up to an including a similar issue with attending a Catholic church where he couldn't receive the Eucharist after being able to at our Episcopal church. (although he actually got so angry he punched a random parishioner while walking back up from getting a blessing!)So hey, at least your kids haven't assaulted anyone in the church yet, lol! 

But God didn't ask us to be perfect. And even if we somehow could have been, that still wouldn't produce any guarantees! God is the perfect parent, and STILL Adam and Eve rebelled! So if he can have his children do that, it is no wonder that we, as imperfect parents, also experience that! But he didn't give up on humanity, and you don't need to give up on your kids. But you are right that pushing them won't help. 

I don't know if my oldest will ever be a believer, but I know God loves him. And I can say that who he is now at 21 is a totally different person than h was at say, 14 or even 17. So..yeah. God's timing, not ours. 

And in the meantime, evangelize with your LOVE and the joy that Christ brings you. In other words, don't push "religion" but let the light of your faith shine through you. Be an example, not an enforcer, of faith. And you can also keep your eyes open for things that might at least give your kids a less cynical view of religion or the church. That might mean bringing up quotes you find interesting, or news, etc, and then dropping it. Or listening to Bishop Michael Curry while washing the dishes - I've yet to find even a hard core atheist that doesn't respect him  and find him inspirational. Not to convince them to believe, but to at least balance out the anger by showing some examples of love that they would respect. But not all the time, just now and then. 

And again, to keep harping on this, God's time, not yours! Read about St. Monica and St. Agustine. Remember that everything your kids are going through now may strengthen their faith later. Heck, the Catholic priest Fr. Richard Rohr says that all the best Catholics he knows left the church for at least a decade before coming back! 

My own (episcopal) church emphasizes over and over, at least once a service, that they don't care where you are on God's journey, they just want to be there for you. Be like that for your kids. Don't push but be an example. 

(and although I said don't push, I do ask that my son attend on Easter, Christmas, and Mother's Day, as a favor to me. He doesn't have to believe, or pray, but I do ask that he attend, and after a few years of pushing back a bit, he now shows up without issue and not only does he refrain from punching anyone, he is better behaved in the pew than my husband, lol)

And you can probably ASK if they'd attend a youth group - just once- at some point, at an Episcopal church, but not require they attend church. See if you can get someone else in their lives to be an example, as they are at an age where that can be helpful. But don't push - it isn't worth turning religion into a fight. Not only because that hurts your relationship, but because it will just push them further from religion. 

[ScoutTN]

Because they are not believers now does not mean they will never be. God is not limited to their life experience this far. 

I actually think it is good that they were not confirmed if they do not believe the essential truths of Christianity. Hypocrisy is never good. 

I think at this point your role as a parent is to model an authentic life of faith in Christ, to pray faithfully for them, and to be open for honest discussion.  A low key approach. 

I think you fulfilled your vows. 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by ScoutTN

[Terabith]

Deleting for now

Edited October 20, 2020 by Terabith

[Terabith]

5 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

Because they are not believers now does not mean they will never be. God is not limited to their life experience this far. 

I actually think it is good that they were not confirmed if they do not believe the essential truths of Christianity. Hypocrisy is never good. 

I think at this point your role as a parent is to model an authentic life of faith in Christ, to pray faithfully for them, and to be oprn for honest discussion.  A low key approach. 

 

 

I would never, ever have forced them to be confirmed.  That would be dishonest.  My mother said I should have made them go to the classes.  

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Terabith said:

They never punched anyone but youngest hissed (like a cat) at someone she didn’t know who sat next to her in a pew.  She was a believer in social distancing before the pandemic.  She was like 12, too.  
 

I am also sad because oldest has rejected the name we gave them.  And I can deal with that, but they want every picture and everything with the old name on it not just boxed up but destroyed, which means I have no baby pictures, no preschool art, no Christmas ornaments they made, no plates with their drawings and the year, no five year old t-ball T-shirt, no awards with their name, no programs from the Nutcracker that they danced in.  And because youngest was in most of the pictures, I have to get rid of all of hers too.  

I don't know that they get to tell you what to do with that stuff. You can box it up and put in the attic, but I think requiring you to erase them like that is...not okay. But no matter what, you have your memories. 

Can you agree to put a piece of tape over the name, or white out, or whatever? 

[Storygirl]

I'm really sorry. We are dealing with some rejection of our faith with one of our teens, as well, and it hurts my heart.

I understand why your child would want to reject mementos, but they shouldn't get to demand that you wipe out your own memories. I would not comply with the request. You don't need to comply with their request, because these mementos are yours as well. It's an unreasonable request for you to destroy photos that are important to you. You can box them up and remove them from your home without destroying them, perhaps by storing them with a relative.  Even if your child will disagree with this decision and be angry, it's your decision what to do with things that you own.

I'm sorry.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Storygirl

[Carrie12345]

34 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I am also sad because oldest has rejected the name we gave them.  And I can deal with that, but they want every picture and everything with the old name on it not just boxed up but destroyed, which means I have no baby pictures, no preschool art, no Christmas ornaments they made, no plates with their drawings and the year, no five year old t-ball T-shirt, no awards with their name, no programs from the Nutcracker that they danced in.  And because youngest was in most of the pictures, I have to get rid of all of hers too.  

Oh, I’m so sorry!
I know I just said I hate being a liar, but I might have lied in that scenario.  Or maybe just stretched the truth to say they’re “gone” (in an out of the way location.)

[Terabith]

23 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

I'm really sorry. We are dealing with some rejection of our faith with one of our teens, as well, and it hurts my heart.

I understand why your child would want to reject mementos, but they shouldn't get to demand that you wipe out your own memories. I would not comply with the request. You don't need to comply with their request, because these mementos are yours as well. It's an unreasonable request for you to destroy photos that are important to you. You can box them up and remove them from your home without destroying them, perhaps by storing them with a relative.  Even if your child will disagree with this decision and be angry, it's your decision what to do with things that you own.

I'm sorry.

They won’t be angry exactly.  Just hurt. And I will be considered not supportive.  

[Innisfree]

(((Terabith)))

I think your elder child is not respecting your own reasonable boundaries if they ask you to destroy those old photos, etc.-- especially the ones including their sister. I understand that they don't feel those items reflect who they are now, and perhaps they're hurting or angry. But asking you to destroy precious keepsakes is not okay. I think you can draw a line there while still respecting the person they are now.

13 hours ago, Terabith said:

 

You get to feel hurt, too, and to set your own boundaries.

One of mine, who is (I think) a year or two older than yours, was very angry with us for a while about a few things. We had a very difficult couple of years. Recently she has almost entirely changed her attitude, and is glad I didn't do the thing she was demanding at 16. It's a hard time, but it may not last forever.

Regarding your original question, I think you did everything you could do. The rest is out of your hands, beyond continuing to offer an example by the way you live your own faith. Both kids have a lot of growing up to do still, and plenty of time to change their minds. 

More hugs.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Innisfree

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

They never punched anyone but youngest hissed (like a cat) at someone she didn’t know who sat next to her in a pew.  She was a believer in social distancing before the pandemic.  She was like 12, too.  
 

I am also sad because oldest has rejected the name we gave them.  And I can deal with that, but they want every picture and everything with the old name on it not just boxed up but destroyed, which means I have no baby pictures, no preschool art, no Christmas ornaments they made, no plates with their drawings and the year, no five year old t-ball T-shirt, no awards with their name, no programs from the Nutcracker that they danced in.  And because youngest was in most of the pictures, I have to get rid of all of hers too.  

Don’t destroy it. That’s not a reasonable request.

[J-rap]

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Don’t destroy it. That’s not a reasonable request.

I agree.  Just box it up, tape it up, hide it somewhere.  

[J-rap]

"if you put on secular glasses, you'll see the relationships as the most important thing. Do what you all need to do to remain emotionally intimate and valuing one another."

I think that's great advice, and for the record, I think that's Jesus's most important message too. 

You didn't fail them.  If anything failed them, it's the institution of the church  -- of all churches throughout history -- for putting emphasis on things that don't matter yet make it sound like important theology. 

Sure, it's possible that their school caused your kids to question things, but if they never went to that school, something else would have caused them to question things, because that's who they are.  And they're right...  so much of what the church teaches is BS.   So at the end of the day, it's not a bad thing to question that stuff and start over again and make it their own.   The hardest part is that the church and Christians in general can turn people off of it so much, that people no longer want to give it a chance to learn what it's really about.  But, God understands their hearts and this is their journey.

It does sound like your oldest is struggling with a lot of things though right now, not just faith-related.  Just be there for her and keep loving her through it.   Hang in there!

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by J-rap

[fairfarmhand]

2 hours ago, Terabith said:

They never punched anyone but youngest hissed (like a cat) at someone she didn’t know who sat next to her in a pew.  She was a believer in social distancing before the pandemic.  She was like 12, too.  
 

I am also sad because oldest has rejected the name we gave them.  And I can deal with that, but they want every picture and everything with the old name on it not just boxed up but destroyed, which means I have no baby pictures, no preschool art, no Christmas ornaments they made, no plates with their drawings and the year, no five year old t-ball T-shirt, no awards with their name, no programs from the Nutcracker that they danced in.  And because youngest was in most of the pictures, I have to get rid of all of hers too.  

Box it up and store it. They’re your memories too, and your other kids. One kid can’t insist that history isn’t what it was just cause they’ve changed. I’d wager that at some point in the future they will realize that all the things that happened in the past have made your child who they are. And they’ll be glad you didn’t discard these things. When one is in their early 20s it’s pretty common to think you know who you are and all you’ll ever be.  They don’t realize how they’ll change over the years and what’s important. Quietly box it up and say “I love you, I know you’re going through some stuff but blotting out the past won’t change this struggle or make it easier. You may change your mind in the future and you won’t ever get this stuff back. Plus this stuff means something to me and your siblings. I’m not going to shove it in your face, but I am going to hang on to it.”

 

it’s like if you’d divorced and tossed everything that had anything to do with their dad. That wouldn’t be fair to your kids because they have an interest in those things too.

[Junie]

(((Terabith)))

I'm so sorry that you're struggling right now.

 

[Carol in Cal.]

God has no grandchildren.  Everyone comes to Him individually.  You made it possible for that to happen for your kids, and unfortunately they rejected it, which is SO hard.  But it’s not over til it’s over.

[hippiemamato3]

They are still young. But...our children are not ours. They become their own people with their own feelings, opinions, faith (or not). And it can be painful. My son says he has no faith, but he has had great conversations with our minister (who sadly just retired) and I think his relationship with her will color his faith in the future, when he gets to a place where he's ready to think about it more. Maybe it won't.

Edited October 19, 2020 by hippiemamato3

[hippiemamato3]

5 hours ago, Terabith said:

They never punched anyone but youngest hissed (like a cat) at someone she didn’t know who sat next to her in a pew.  She was a believer in social distancing before the pandemic.  She was like 12, too.  
 

I am also sad because oldest has rejected the name we gave them.  And I can deal with that, but they want every picture and everything with the old name on it not just boxed up but destroyed, which means I have no baby pictures, no preschool art, no Christmas ornaments they made, no plates with their drawings and the year, no five year old t-ball T-shirt, no awards with their name, no programs from the Nutcracker that they danced in.  And because youngest was in most of the pictures, I have to get rid of all of hers too.  

I'm asking this gently, and if I'm wrong then I apologize. But if your child was misgendered and is now correcting it - perhaps an offer at some point in the future of attending a UCC church might be a place to re-find faith. If religion has told you your whole life that you are not "enough" or not loved by God as you are - maybe it's time to find a safer space. There is room in God's family for everyone IF  you find the right place.  

Edited October 19, 2020 by hippiemamato3

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, Terabith said:

They won’t be angry exactly.  Just hurt. And I will be considered not supportive.  

Well, you may need to explain that if they want to be treated as a mature person they need to accept that other people need support too, including you. It goes both ways. Just getting what you want is not adult behavior. 

[MEmama]

57 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

I'm asking this gently, and if I'm wrong then I apologize. But if your child is changing gender - perhaps an offer at some point in the future of attending a UCC church might be a place to re-find faith. If religion has told you your whole life that you are not "enough" or not loved by God as you are - maybe it's time to find a safer space. There is room in God's family for everyone IF  you find the right place.  

Correcting the bolded: If the child was MISgendered...
 

Assuming the OP has a trans kid, it would be beneficial—indeed, crucial— for her to consider why they don’t want mementos around with their dead name. Honestly, how can keeping paper plate decorations be more important than fostering a healthy, respectful relationship with ones child? They aren't rejecting YOU when they use their new name; they are embracing the person they have always been. 
 

Also, it isn’t a failure to be an atheist. Just sayin'.

[hippiemamato3]

10 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Correcting the bolded: If the child was MISgendered...
 

Assuming the OP has a trans kid, it would be beneficial—indeed, crucial— for her to consider why they don’t want mementos around with their dead name. Honestly, how can keeping paper plate decorations be more important than fostering a healthy, respectful relationship with ones child? They aren't rejecting YOU when they use their new name; they are embracing the person they have always been. 
 

Also, it isn’t a failure to be an atheist. Just sayin'.

Thanks for the correction. I agree it's not a failure to raise an atheist.

[Amy Gen]

We might be living parallel lives. 
 

We are also Episcopalians. My kids went through Catechesis of the Good Shepherd. I still teach Godly Play. Only my oldest chose to be confirmed. She doesn’t attend church now but enjoys going with us when she visits. 
 

They didn’t go to Catholic school, but at one point we moved to a place where the Episcopal church was toxic so for 10 years, we went to Catholic mass but not Faith Formation.  At least 2 of my kids are now nonbelievers. I suspect a third as well, but she sees no reason to tell me. 
 

I knew the day would come when they would have to choose for themselves. I just wanted them to know their options so they would have an informed choice. I wanted them to always know the church is there when or if they want it. I can’t do more than continue to pray for God’s perfect will in their lives. I don’t have to know what that is or understand it. 
 

My middle child is trans. 

I feel like Tevye in Fiddler on the Roof. I feel like a fiddler on the roof. 
 

I told my child that I would accept and support them no matter what, but I really don’t understand. They wanted to get gender-conforming surgery right now, in 2020. I said I would feel much better if they waited until they were 25 and their brain was completely developed. I would say the same thing if they wanted to get married or have a child. They saw my point and considered it, but when they talked to their therapist about it, she said, “I understand where your mother is coming from, but it doesn’t apply in this situation.” 
 

I prayed for God to close a door if this isn’t His will, but I didn’t try to convince or argue with my child. When they called the surgery center, they found out that the out of pocket cost was prohibitive. I did say that I think this is a mistake because we have already reached our max out of pocket. They claim to want this surgery desperately, but apparently not enough to actually call the surgery center back and discuss it. I’m breathing a huge sigh of relief. 
 

What I’m discovering is that I still have enough influence to plant seeds. The new name that my child chose for themselves was chosen during a depression, and represents an unlovable monster. Several times, I’ve said that I wonder if that is really the identity they want to carry forward for the rest of their life. I always got back, “I know what I want, Mom.”

But this week, they texted me from the other room and said, “I thought of what you said and I think I want a more hopeful name.” I said that makes me very happy and they said it makes them happy too. 
 

I don’t know what else to do. I’m putting a lot of energy into staying connected. I’m continuing to pray. I’m staying open minded. I’m seeking counsel from a couple of friends whom I trust. 
 

Instead of seeing myself as a failure, I said, “Autism, mental illness and transsexuality-God must really trust me with his most fragile creatures.”

I know it is a difficult situation. I keep reminding myself of the cliche to parent the kid you have got. 
 

Very gentle hugs to you. Let me know if you ever want to talk more. 
 

 

 

[Terabith]

Deleting for now.  Thanks.  

Edited October 20, 2020 by Terabith

[ktgrok]

25 minutes ago, Terabith said:

 

I am not saying I want to display pictures or things with their old name.  I just want a box in a closet with pictures and memories that at one time I had a little girl named Anna.  I want baby pictures of both of my children.  Just for me and maybe for my other child to have some relics of her past someday.  I just don’t want a bonfire to destroy everything and have to smile about it.  I switched names and pronouns on a dime.   I just don’t want to burn everything.  

And it isn't wrong to want to avoid permanent actions like that when dealing with a teenager. We ALL have changed our minds about HUGE things since then, and this might be one of them. 

And your child not wanting to see their baby pictures is not the same as saying YOU can never see your own child's baby pictures. That's crossing a boundary. 

[YaelAldrich]

I've gone through this with sadly now my two oldest.  I thought G-d have me enough sadness with one leaving our faith (and so flamboyantly!). This year the next oldest told us he wasn't interested anymore either. And is mean and hurtful on top of it all.

My oldest is not as angry any more. That's a blessing. And his best friend, who also left our faith, is trying to show my son that we aren't the hypocritical people he likes to think we are.

I'll pray for you and your family. 

[Hannah]

13 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

And your child not wanting to see their baby pictures is not the same as saying YOU can never see your own child's baby pictures. That's crossing a boundary. 

This. You can respect their wish by packing them away, but destroying them is not their decision alone. They're your memories too.

[Murphy101]

I am presuming you fulfilled your baptismal promise because it seems as though you did what you thought was best towards that goal. But regardless, it’s important to remember Jesus saves, not momma.  All you can do is plant the seed and do your best to give conditions for that seed to grow healthy.   To affirm the healthy and the good,  and to love them through what isn’t that in the hopes that some day healthy and good will return from them. The rest is between them and God. 
 

They can be hurt but they don’t have the right to demand you erase everything of the child you raised. That isn’t just part of who they were, it’s part of you too. And you have every reason to want to surround your home with those things same as for anyone else that’s been a part of your life.  I’d refuse to that because it is unreasonable and frankly I see nothing healthy in denying who they are.  And everything they were IS part of who they are.  That’s true of everyone.
 

The confirmation issue would be a non issue if it was restored to its proper order immediately followIng FHC instead of holding a sacrament hostage for good behavior during the worst of puberty.  I would have made mine go for the sake of learning, though I would not have made them receive if they didn’t want to.

Were they interested in becoming catholic?  I’m not sure why an Episcopalian would expect to receive Eucharist at a RCC school but I‘m terribly saddened that no one told you about their spiritual struggle at the time.  That’s a damn shame   (Language for purposeful adjective.) 

It sounds like your children seem to demand that their lack of living in the faith obligates you to stop living in it too?  And that would Indeed be heartbreaking because I love my kids too much to be able to do that. Praying you find peace and comfort in the Lord in loving your children through this difficulty.  (((Hugs)))

[Terabith]

No, they didn’t want to become Catholic, although I offered.  I had thought they knew they wouldn’t be allowed to receive at Catholic school but maybe not?  Or maybe in practice not receiving was harder than in theory.  They were in fourth grade.  

[matrips]

11 hours ago, Terabith said:

They never punched anyone but youngest hissed (like a cat) at someone she didn’t know who sat next to her in a pew.  She was a believer in social distancing before the pandemic.  She was like 12, too.  
 

I am also sad because oldest has rejected the name we gave them.  And I can deal with that, but they want every picture and everything with the old name on it not just boxed up but destroyed, which means I have no baby pictures, no preschool art, no Christmas ornaments they made, no plates with their drawings and the year, no five year old t-ball T-shirt, no awards with their name, no programs from the Nutcracker that they danced in.  And because youngest was in most of the pictures, I have to get rid of all of hers too.  

That part I wouldn’t go along with.  They’re your memories too.  I don’t think they should ask that of you.

pray for them.  Love them.  

Hugs.

[Tanaqui]

I think it's certainly reasonable for them to ask that old pictures etc. be put out of sight and out of mind. As for destroying, I agree that at the very least, it's better to wait until they're fully an adult. But definitely I'd box all that stuff up now and shove it in the attic.

As for your kid being an atheist - I know your religion is important to you, but you're not a failure. You raised good kids, who are secure and trust you enough not to hide this sort of thing from you. That's a success. There are plenty of other religious parents who have atheist kids, but don't know it because their kids are sneaking and hiding and lying out of fear - often justified fear! - that their parents will reject them. Those parents are failures. Not you.

[Junie]

I had a family member destroy some of her photos which was very hurtful to me.  They were my memories, too. 😞

[Frances]

13 hours ago, Terabith said:

They’re both good people.  Youngest I think was wired to doubt.  I’m not surprised about her.  Oldest believed with all their heart until it all turned to ashes.  My mom says I should have made them go to confirmation class, even if they didn’t get confirmed.  But I think it would have pushed them away.  

Growing up Catholic, it was very common in our church for parents with kids who were not wanting to go to church anymore to tell them they just had to go until they were confirmed, and then they could make their own choice. That always seemed like the stupidest thing to me, given what confirmation means. And I thought then and still think now that most denominations confirm kids way too young. While I know some kids are ready early, in general I don’t think it should happen until after they graduate from high school and have some independence.

[katilac]

7 hours ago, MEmama said:

Assuming the OP has a trans kid, it would be beneficial—indeed, crucial— for her to consider why they don’t want mementos around with their dead name. Honestly, how can keeping paper plate decorations be more important than fostering a healthy, respectful relationship with ones child? They aren't rejecting YOU when they use their new name; they are embracing the person they have always been. 

But it's not just paper plate decorations - the kid in question wants her to destroy pictures not just of her, but of her with a sibling. I agree with boxing things up for now, bc it may be too hard for them to see it right now, but I wouldn't destroy everything. 

5 hours ago, Terabith said:

I am fine with a name change, but I wish one had been chosen with more thought and care.  

Unless they did something official, this may change at some point, and honestly is very likely to. I know many kids who have changed their names and  they tend to go through more than one new name. It's a big decision! 

Even if they did do something official, they can still change it again in future if they so choose. 

[Terabith]

Going to delete.  Thanks.  

[KungFuPanda]

My 2 cents? 
 

1. You can’t make promises for other people because they have free will. You lived up to your end of the bargain. 
 

2. Photographs of your children are your property. Destroying them is irreversible. Your child may change their mind one day, but even if they don’t you deserve to have your photos of YOUR babies. I’ve seen too many young people change their minds about EVERYTHING to honor this request. Put them in a safe deposit box, or get them scanned if you must have a symbolic bonfire. 

[TravelingChris]

17 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

I am presuming you fulfilled your baptismal promise because it seems as though you did what you thought was best towards that goal. But regardless, it’s important to remember Jesus saves, not momma.  All you can do is plant the seed and do your best to give conditions for that seed to grow healthy.   To affirm the healthy and the good,  and to love them through what isn’t that in the hopes that some day healthy and good will return from them. The rest is between them and God. 
 

They can be hurt but they don’t have the right to demand you erase everything of the child you raised. That isn’t just part of who they were, it’s part of you too. And you have every reason to want to surround your home with those things same as for anyone else that’s been a part of your life.  I’d refuse to that because it is unreasonable and frankly I see nothing healthy in denying who they are.  And everything they were IS part of who they are.  That’s true of everyone.
 

The confirmation issue would be a non issue if it was restored to its proper order immediately followIng FHC instead of holding a sacrament hostage for good behavior during the worst of puberty.  I would have made mine go for the sake of learning, though I would not have made them receive if they didn’t want to.

Were they interested in becoming catholic?  I’m not sure why an Episcopalian would expect to receive Eucharist at a RCC school but I‘m terribly saddened that no one told you about their spiritual struggle at the time.  That’s a damn shame   (Language for purposeful adjective.) 

It sounds like your children seem to demand that their lack of living in the faith obligates you to stop living in it too?  And that would Indeed be heartbreaking because I love my kids too much to be able to do that. Praying you find peace and comfort in the Lord in loving your children through this difficulty.  (((Hugs)))

I went to a Catholic school in 6th grade.  I was a Catholic then but already had some disagreements with the church- I became a Presbyterian shortly after our wedding- and no, we hadn't planned it that way.  But, anyway, at my Catholic school in Arlington, VA, we had a lot of students coming from Bolling Air Force Base in Washington DC which is in Anacostia.  Anocostia, at least at that time, was well known for horrific crime rates and appalling schools.  As a Catholic, I found it awful that those children weren't allowed communion.  After all, no one was questioning me about what I thought about communion -and even then I didn't believe in transubstantiation (and in looking up how to spell it on google, I found out that only a third of Catholics believe it).   In fact, many of those 6th graders were surprised and hurt that they couldn't have communion.

[TravelingChris]

Terabith, I am so sorry for all you are going through.  I agree with others, do not destroy the photos but you can hide them- maybe outside the home would be better for now. 

As to baptismal promises, two of mine were baptised in the Presbyterian Church and one in the United Methodist church.  (We moved a lot and chose churches by individual congregations and not by denomination).  Anyway, all three churches had us promise to raise our children in the church- but nothing about forcing them.  I was lucky that all my children were attending until they were adults.  But two out of three don't attend now.  The oldest was very angry with God for many, many years because of he had had very deep depression and his depression and anxiety really changed his life's path.  That happened in 2008 and while he is still not back, he has become a lot less hostile, his depression has finally totally lifted, and we are hopeful.  The same with the other one who currently isn't going to church- (well we aren't either for that fact- we do online church) but wasn't before pandemic.  Her boyfriend was going to church and I think that together they will find a church they can both live with when this pandemic is over.

Governing teens is very hard and governing adults is even harder.  They end up doing things we do not agree with so many times over.  And beliefs we hold dear- whether using drugs, alcohol, smoking, to varying beliefs with you about healthcare - to political beliefs- to religious beliefs,  Basically anything. This election season hasn't been easy for me -not only because of stuff by acquaintances on Facebook, but outbursts by two of my kids too and actually I think the third one also.  

I didn't post earlier but I did start praying for you, Terabith.  Many hugs.

[Murphy101]

2 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

I went to a Catholic school in 6th grade.  I was a Catholic then but already had some disagreements with the church- I became a Presbyterian shortly after our wedding- and no, we hadn't planned it that way.  But, anyway, at my Catholic school in Arlington, VA, we had a lot of students coming from Bolling Air Force Base in Washington DC which is in Anacostia.  Anocostia, at least at that time, was well known for horrific crime rates and appalling schools.  As a Catholic, I found it awful that those children weren't allowed communion.  After all, no one was questioning me about what I thought about communion -and even then I didn't believe in transubstantiation (and in looking up how to spell it on google, I found out that only a third of Catholics believe it).   In fact, many of those 6th graders were surprised and hurt that they couldn't have communion.

That’s all a shame.  You should have had someone to talk to about those thoughts who would have advised you to abstain from Eucharist under those conditions. They should have someone to advise new families to the school of the situation so kids don’t get hurt and can grow in understanding. 
 

That said I’m not surprised.  Everyone here calls our local catholic high school the place to be if you want to leave the faith. 🥺

Edited October 20, 2020 by Murphy101