What is responsible?

[Terabith]

We've tried to be really careful and responsible with this pandemic.  We're probably more careful than anyone I know in real life, but less careful than many people here on the forum.  I don't wipe down the groceries, and I do go into the grocery store.  I try usually to go at less populated times.  We've gone to a handful of other stores:  Target, Pet Smart.  We've gotten take out from a variety of restaurants.  We've been to a handful of medical appointments.  We see my in laws a couple times a week, who claim they are being very careful and not seeing people, but I have seen neighbors stop by and come into their house.  I have done errands and house cleaning for a friend, who I also visited in the hospital several times.  I've taken him to medical appointments.  He's pretty quarantined himself.  My husband has interacted with another friend in the process of helping our hospitalized friend.  We always mask in public.  We wash hands religiously.  We take a lot of walks in deserted parking lots at night.

But, my kids have been locked down since March.  Other than my in laws, my oldest's only contact with anyone outside our family in person was a medical appointment.  My youngest has attended a few small social gatherings with a handful of friends whose families are also cautious.  School is starting in the next week or so, and it's online, although oldest has an in person orientation in small groups for two days.  Both kids are on medication for anxiety and depression.  We've been locked down for six months, but there is absolutely no end in sight for this.  My youngest's friend group are almost all seniors, so this will be the last year they can be together.  Her friend group wants to have a weekly hang out at someone's house.  And.....my feeling is to allow this.  I think she really needs this.  I think my oldest needs something similar, too.  It would be the same group each week.  A lot of it is indoors, though sometimes they'll play outside.  They'll have masks, but they'll probably take them off for pizza.  These kids are also doing school online, and their families work from home.  If I could find some friends for my oldest, I would really like for them to spend time with some kids, too.  

How irresponsible is this?  I'm trying to figure out how to balance covid caution and mental health.  

[Katy]

Chances are strong there will be a vaccine in 8 or so months.

How many people that you interact with regularly are high risk?  Does anyone have a heart defect, asthma, overweight or uncontrolled diabetes?  Do they smoke?  Do they take vitamin D?  Does anyone have a personal or family history of blood clots, heart attacks, stroke, or an inflammatory condition?  Do they have autoimmune conditions like Lupus?

How will you feel if one of the older people you interact with catches it from you, and either dies or doesn't fully recover?  Will you have the perspective of wishing you'd made the kids wait a little longer?  Have you thought about how short an inconvenience this is compared to other disasters throughout history?

I'm not saying I have the answers.  I think you should try to rationally understand all the factors, including that the emotional fatigue from saying no for so long is tiring. Once you're sure you know the answers I personally think it's fine to go with your intuition.  Just don't mistake wishing things were back to normal with intuition or responsibility. And IME kids take on the same attitude about quarantine as their parents do.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Irresponsible is large groups,  mingling, unmasked - especially indoors.  Small groups is rolling the dice a bit but if you do it carefully - masking when possible, the same small group which mainly interacts just with each other, I don't think that the risks are as much as other scenarios.  I would say, that at the first sign of illness then I would pull back for a two week period. 

If you mask in public, then you are protecting the public, especially if they are masked as well.  So the main risk is to your own family group and to the family groups associated with the small group that is meeting. 

Signed someone who is very pro-mask, pro social distancing but who has taken some small risks lately while still masking in public so that if I am a carrier then I am hopefully not spreading anything. 

[klmama]

We see the same friends outdoors every few weeks with distancing and masks.  It's been a huge boost to our metal health. My dc also has an outdoor activity with distancing, but without masks.  Afterward dc uses hydrogen peroxide on cotton swabs to wipe nasal passages in hopes of killing any virus present,  then uses a sinus rinse. It may not work, but we figure it might lower levels if dc has been exposed.  

[Ausmumof3]

How many high risk people are in your circle?  And how responsible are the other kids in the group being?  And are you in a higher risk area like Florida etc.

I hear you on the mental health thing.  We had such a short time locked down and it’s impacted one of my kids quite a lot so I can’t imagine how it would be having done it since March.

[Ottakee]

I am much less cautious than most on this forum, but more so than most in real life.

I would try to find outdoor things for them to do and get together with small groups of friends.   Mental health concerns are very real, esp if there is already anxiety and depression.

 

Also, how are the numbers in your area?  

[2squared]

We are in a rural area with low community spread. Our schools are opening with full F2F learning as our county has had 0-9 cases per 10,000 residents over the past 14 days (MN rules). 

My kids have been seeing friends since our state went into level three. Most of their friend time is outdoors, but they have had overnights with one close friend each. They also participated in sports this summer - baseball, softball, weightlifting (indoors in cohorts), football, wrestling. Their mental and physical health is light years better than when we were in lock down. 
 

Also, my college freshman is living in the dorms. She moved in last week, and I can see living on campus is the right choice for her, despite having mostly online classes. 

[catz]

Outdoors for get togethers is far preferable.  I do think mental health is important.  But pick a very small crew you think is being safe and work on ways to meet safely.  
 

have your kids been socializing online?  I know that’s not the same but that has been super helpful here.  Mostly gaming stuff with live chat on.  It sounds like there’s a party in my living room.  Lol.  

[MEmama]

I hear you. It’s a tough balance, especially with suffering mental health.
 

DS has done a few things with friends irl this summer, mountain biking and kayaking and more recently XC practice. He went to a very small, outdoor, socially distanced party this weekend. He doesn’t leave the house for much of anything else. For him, the benefits of occasional, reasonably safe get together have been huge. He is at risk though, so indoor events are a no go.

I do have to mention we live in one of the safest states in the country. If we were anywhere else I’m not sure we would make the same decisions (particularly practice and the party. I do think distanced outdoor activities with a friend or two are pretty safe bets especially for aware teens).

[Terabith]

Our numbers are...hard to interpret.  We’re in Roanoke, Virginia.  They aren’t low like Vermont, but they’re also not super high like Florida or anything.  Our positivity rate is around 4% or so, which isn’t great.  I have some risk factors.  My in laws are over 70 but are pretty healthy.  We could pull back from them, but it would negatively impact their mental health and my husband’s.   The friend I have been helping has pretty much all the risk factors, but I always mask around him and now that he’s out of the hospital, I can distance from him a lot more.  
 

Outdoors would definitely be better, but for a variety of reasons, I have little social control over the group.  If I say she can only see them outside, she will just not be able to see them.  This is a group of about four kids that’s been together for five years, but she’s the only girl and the youngest.  We could wait 8 months, but they’re all high school seniors, except for her.  She’s a freshman.   If I tell her she has to wait till there’s a vaccine, that pretty much will be until they’re gone, and my autistic kid will have lost the only friends she’s ever really had.  My husband says the issue is if the social exposure is with three friends whose families are pretty locked down or if it’s from the psych ward, where we have far less control.  
 

They’ve been socializing online up until now, but if it’s moving to in person, her choice is to opt in or opt out.  
 

I would feel awful if we spread covid to anyone.  Sigh.  Probably the responsible thing is to say no.  I just hate watching my kids’ mental health deteriorate.  

[MEmama]

It’s a shame 4 teens can’t decide to just meet outside. There are still a few months for that to be a reasonable solution, until it’s too cold. Is it possible to suggest outdoor activities, so it’s not just sitting around the backyard? I think swimming seems safe, or going for a bike ride or a hike. Idk how far you to a beach, but maybe that’s a possibility? 
 

I'm so sorry. All of this is so, so hard and there are so few right answers. 😞 

[Terabith]

We’re in Virginia.  It’s almost never too cold here.  Nobody has a pool.  There are no beaches within four hours.  None of them ride bikes.  We’re on the Appalachian Trail; hiking is gorgeous here.  One gathering was a nerf battle outside.  But they’re four geeky kids who are mostly opposed to physical exercise.  Their main relationship is being a role playing group.  Sometimes they mix it up and play board games or video games.  Outside could definitely happen and would be better.  I should tell her she can only hang if they do that.  That would be the responsible thing.  In reality, it just means they’ll hang without her.  

[almondbutterandjelly]

I would allow it.  My dd started college last week, and her mental health boost has been amazing.  Mental health matters.  In fact, she just went to an indoor get-together last night, and most of the kids ended up not masking because it was a dinner, and now she is masking around the house, but it was worth it.  She needed it.  I saw a picture of it, and it was all these college kids sitting in a living room doing a Bible study and they all looked SOOO happy.  Mental health matters.

[Innisfree]

Would one of those self-contained, outside screened "porch" enclosures help? (I don't know how expensive those are...) Could that, with cheap, comfortable chairs or chaise lounges (and maybe a long extension cord for devices), plus a fire pit outside tempt them at all, at least as an occasional place for their get togethers?

I think, given the situation you've outlined, I'd allow it, but I'd be going over the top to provide the best outside teen hangout spots anyone could imagine. S'mores makings, pizzas, heck, if they want to furnish the place to match a role-playing game I'd be all in. 

[Garga]

Get her the best mask you can find. Ask the other people in the group to mask (ask the boys directly).  And then let her go. 

I’m in the same boat WRT small group of geeky boys wanting to play DnD inside vs mental health.  

Ask her if she has the social strength to wear a mask even if no one else does. That’s my one rule. 

[Terabith]

I’d love to host, but between the location of our house and the layout of our house, we are never the hosts.  I will see what I can do to change that, but not sure how successful it will be.  (No fire pit or porch or anything like that.)

[Terabith]

But no.  Given the lack of control we have and that it won’t be outside, I should tell her she can’t go.  
 

Sigh.  I know that’s the right answer.  We’ve just topped out antidepressant dosages.  

[Innisfree]

29 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I’d love to host, but between the location of our house and the layout of our house, we are never the hosts.  I will see what I can do to change that, but not sure how successful it will be.  (No fire pit or porch or anything like that.)

In that case, if you think your dh's summation is essentially accurate, you make sure she masks, encourage whatever outdoor stuff you can, but make the best decision for *your* child*. And then make sure she isn't in a position to pass infection to others. You're in a hard spot, but you have depression and anxiety to balance against covid.

I would probably allow it, with excellent masks, but pull back from some other exposures.

* I'm thinking of "teach the child in front of you." You have to protect the child in front of you, and that means she needs some social contact . But try not to let that additional Covid risk spread to others.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Innisfree

[PeterPan]

3 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Given the lack of control we have

She has control over her own self, no one else. So she could wear a mask even if they don't.

If the table is big enough, they'll naturally be 6' apart anyway. She's in an extremely low risk age bracket. 

If she got the virus, what would happen? 

[Innisfree]

It sounds like you, personally, are at at least some elevated risk. That is a serious concern.

Your in-laws are at elevated risk, but may (?) not be seriously isolating. If that's the case, they are exposing all of you now.

Do your ILs need contact with you as badly as your dd needs contact with her friends? Would it be possible to trade out for a while?

Would your dd feel able to carry a smallish hepa filter (with UV if possible) with her, and would the other families feel insulted if she did? I wouldn't make that a hill to die on, but it could provide a bit of extra protection.

[Terabith]

Just now, CuriousMomof3 said:

I don't agree.  I think that mental health is important.  We've got far more reasons to quarantine than you, and we break quarantine for health reasons.  

I think that unless you have very vulnerable family members, your responsibility is to act in a way so that you aren't adding to the R0 in a way that risks putting it over 1. To me, you have to look at the sum total of the ways you expose yourself as a family.  Pick a few important things and mitigating within those things (e.g. it's 4, not 20, they're at someone's house not a bowling alley, it's a few times a week, not 30 hours a week like school) is the way to make this sustainable. 

This helps.  Yeah, it's four kids.  It's once a week.  (And probably not even every week.)  They're all attending school online, although at some point one of them might be going in one day a week. Cat has a few risk factors.  I have a few risk factors.  We all take vitamin D (and C and zinc and quercetin and melatonin).  Some of the gatherings are at least partially outdoors.  I could say no now.....but I've already said no for six months mostly.  There might be a vaccine in 8 months but we probably won't have access to it for a few more months than that, and I'm not sure 18 months of lockdown is realistic.  

There's also an equity issue.  If oldest, whose mental health is way, WAY worse, makes some friends with the new school (that's meeting online), we would take the risk in a heartbeat for a small group of social exposure, because they are falling apart in a way that is super hard on the whole family.  It would be hard to tell youngest no friends and oldest yes.  Of course that would up everyone's risk level but we'd still be talking two very small groups of exposure.  

In laws are older, and my FIL has had a TIA.  They're fit and healthy, and they say they're social distancing, but I've witnessed numerous unmasked neighbors coming into their house.  Honestly, they're exposing us far more than we've been exposing them, although when questioned, they always swear up and down they're social distancing.  I'd be willing to trade off seeing them for my kids to be able to see friends though.  

I'm trying so hard to do the right thing.  I really wish we'd societally do what we need to do for a short time to really drive down the virus levels to make it so these choices don't feel freighted with guilt.  

[mommyoffive]

I would do it and we are still locked down in my house.   But if we had a group of friends who were taking it seriously then we would do it.  Mental health is important.  It sounds like when they gather they will take it serious. 

Get a firepit and host an outside game play.  

[Terabith]

Just now, CuriousMomof3 said:

I think you should do this for youngest, and try your hardest to find something for oldest. 

Is there an extracurricular your oldest likes the way their sister likes D&D?  Something they could do in a small group class?

Oldest likes theater and music and also likes D&D.  They play D&D online.  Despite youngest being the one with ASD, honestly oldest is super ASD-adjacent, and one way it shows up is extreme rigidity about socialization.  Youngest will say, "This person/ these persons aren't perfect.  There are things about them that annoy me, but I would rather have friends and overlook these imperfections."  And she finds a friend or two almost everywhere she goes.  Oldest is perfectionistic, and if a potential friend upsets them, they tend to scorch earth the relationship.  It's really, really, really a problem, and it's also really hard to teach "have boundaries and there are some things that are worth cutting people off for but you really need to go along to get along sometimes."  We're working on it.  Oldest started out as part of this group of friends years ago, but decided they were irritating and dropped out.  We've tried to encourage them to go back, because while they're goofy teen boys, they're an accepting crowd.  (And I'd love for both kids to be in the same group, germ wise.)  I'm really hoping new school has some prospects.  They will have two days of orientation, and the school is talking about arranging Friday social events outdoors (and masked) some days, and we've already told oldest that they're going.  

[TCB]

I would just make sure your family wasn’t causing risk to the older people you are around. You can still see your in-laws outside and at a safe distance can’t you? You have more control over who you expose so I would just be very careful with that.

[SanDiegoMom]

Four teens who are staying home and parents are working from home? Definitely we would do it.  

We had two teens over multiple times before we moved away, making our group four teens total.  Their parents were working from home too and only went out for groceries.  It's a balancing act, but when you are reducing chance of exposure in so many places, it's worth it to take one risk for mental health, imo, as long as their aren't any high risk members in your direct family.  

[maize]

I would allow small group interactions where the families are mostly isolating and where kids mask most of the time.

If you host gatherings yourselves you could increase safety by opening some windows, making sure seats are a bit separated, etc.

My family has taken bigger risks than that for the sake of mental health. Long-term lockdown with no social engagement can be devastating for kids who are inclined towards anxiety and depression already.

I take the virus seriously, more so than 90% of people locally. I worry about long-term consequences if we catch it.

But my family has also lived the long-term consequences of mental illness and mental health will always be one of my top priorities.

Sending hugs your way, 2020 is a tough year to navigate 

[alisoncooks]

I'd allow it. But I've been allowing my kids to meet with a couple of families they're close friends with  (indoors and unmasked). For the most part, we are all following the same degrees of caution (masking in public, staying home except for errands/health appt, no big traveling or large groups). I felt the benefits outweigh the risks for our family. 

[Catwoman]

We are on the Crazy Paranoid Lunatic side of all of this, having not even been in a store since the end of February... but given the circumstances you described, I would allow this. I mean, I wouldn’t want it to be an every day thing, but I nearly cried when you said that your dd is autistic and these are the only real friends she has ever had. I just couldn’t take that away from her. 

If the other kids are sweet and geeky, maybe they would be fine with wearing masks if your dd suggested it and mentioned that she has high risk family members. And maybe your dd could even make fun masks for everyone with some kind of game-related decoration on it. 

I would say no to this under most circumstances, but it seems like your dd is such a good kid, and she really needs this. 

[Farrar]

I definitely wouldn't allow it in our situation. We have been allowing any outside, masked or distanced interaction. I take them up to hang out in a friend's backyard about once a week on average. And have let the kids stay up absurdly late all summer playing Minecraft and Valorant and D&D and Jackbox games online with friends (the comeback of Minecraft as a social thing during quarantine is wild to me, but that's another story). 

This has had a big impact on my kid with anxiety and depression... but it's been such a huge mix, at least in my view (he says all negative, but my outsider view is that his anxiety is way down). And he has complete buy in so he wouldn't ask in the first place to see someone inside. He'd be aghast that any of his friends suggested it. If I was in your situation, I get that it would be a lot harder. I really don't think it's responsible to go see friends inside. But also, you have to choose. And I hate that. It's exhausting all this bearing the burden of these choices. 

[JustEm]

Mental health is incredibly important, especially now and for the teenage years. They need to be taken into account when evaluating what risks one is willing to take.  And from what you describe they'd be holding a lot more weight than the downside of these gatherings being inside.  If I were you I would allow it.

 

Edited to add: but we've been having family and a few friends in our house for a few months now with no masks or distancing.  These are people who aren't seeing many other people and are still masking and distanced while out in public settings just like us.  I do believe it is responsible to consider mental health and decide that the added risks are worth it over further negative effects to multiple peoples' mental health.

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by hjffkj

[katilac]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

If the table is big enough, they'll naturally be 6' apart anyway.  

No, that would be one ginormous table, lol. The biggest tables are usually 78" long, which allows 6 1/2 feet from head to foot, but only 36" to 40" wide. That's banquet table length, which most people won't have. Four kids at a table are not going to be anywhere near 6' apart. 

If I were the OP, I would allow it, but with the knowledge that they are not going to be 6 feet apart. 

[Farrar]

I guess what would frustrate me the most would be that no one else is supportive of moving outside. Like, my kids suck at organizing themselves so they just end up seeing friends and sitting around in backyards. But if they wanted to organize D&D not online, they'd all just go play at a set of picnic tables at a park pavilion or something. Or they'd set up the wifi extender and play in our backyard at different ends of the patio. Because people we know are mostly abiding by that line of thinking. Like, this is a lack of buy in among the group and that would make me more annoyed than anything else. I mean, I get that it is what it is (a phrase that now lives in infamy). But it doesn't have to be. That's what would drive me most crazy. It would also be less psychologically trying if everyone was actually in it together.

WaPo's pandemic voices this weekend was a family whose totally healthy 15 and 16 yo both nearly died from the virus. Both had to go on ventilators. Both are recovering at home now, but very slowly. I hate that we're having to choose that risk.

[PeterPan]

10 minutes ago, katilac said:

No, that would be one ginormous table, lol. The biggest tables are usually 78" long, which allows 6 1/2 feet from head to foot, but only 36" to 40" wide. That's banquet table length, which most people won't have. Four kids at a table are not going to be anywhere near 6' apart. 

If I were the OP, I would allow it, but with the knowledge that they are not going to be 6 feet apart. 

I do. I use them for homeschooling, so I have some that collapse and some with adjustable legs. I put them together to make islands for events, ironing curtains, whatever. Fits fine in the basement. May or may not be common, as you say. And it's not so uncommon for people to have a 5' round poker style table. Even if it's 4 ½, just by sitting back a bit the kids are already 6' apart. Doesn't have to be a 6' table.

[Terabith]

4 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

Are the parents people you could talk to?

I know that you probably think we're all stuck on fire pits, but could you buy your youngest one that she could take with her?  Obviously one of those little metal ones that's portable.  Maybe that could be a trade off "Hey, if we eat outside, my mom will buy us a fire pit and some marshmallows!"  Then they could play inside, and she could wear a mask at least.  You could also buy something like a happy mask for her so she's more protected.  

Portable fire pits?  I'm off to google.  All the ones I've seen were gigantic things built into people's yards with stones and stuff.  

[Farrar]

2 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Portable fire pits?  I'm off to google.  All the ones I've seen were gigantic things built into people's yards with stones and stuff.  

They're not that expensive either. We have one. It roams the patio.

[Terabith]

Ooohhhh!  That's kinda cool!  I'll ask.  

[mommyoffive]

12 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Portable fire pits?  I'm off to google.  All the ones I've seen were gigantic things built into people's yards with stones and stuff.  

Oh yeah we had one 13 years ago. They are pretty cheap too.  Now we just have a pit in the yard.  Although I want to get a pit again.  My tween and teen love having fires even when it isn't cold.  Mesmerizing and s'mores so the ask to do it every night.  

[Bootsie]

I would take into consideration how much spread there is in the local area, but I would probably allow teens to have some interaction with friends.  DH and I have been very cautious, but we have allowed our college-aged son to do things with friends;  I think it is important for his mental and physical health.  I would try to make suggestions and encourage activities that are low risk and that can be done outdoors.  You may not be able to come up with things that they spend 100% of the time they are together outside, but I would work toward ways to do this with the least risk possible.  

[Catwoman]

26 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I guess what would frustrate me the most would be that no one else is supportive of moving outside. Like, my kids suck at organizing themselves so they just end up seeing friends and sitting around in backyards. But if they wanted to organize D&D not online, they'd all just go play at a set of picnic tables at a park pavilion or something. Or they'd set up the wifi extender and play in our backyard at different ends of the patio. Because people we know are mostly abiding by that line of thinking. Like, this is a lack of buy in among the group and that would make me more annoyed than anything else. I mean, I get that it is what it is (a phrase that now lives in infamy). But it doesn't have to be. That's what would drive me most crazy. It would also be less psychologically trying if everyone was actually in it together.

WaPo's pandemic voices this weekend was a family whose totally healthy 15 and 16 yo both nearly died from the virus. Both had to go on ventilators. Both are recovering at home now, but very slowly. I hate that we're having to choose that risk.

 

Your post got me thinking — does Terabith know for sure that there wouldn’t be buy-in among the group? Maybe they are great kids and if Terabith’s dd told them she had high risk family members, they might all work together to make things as safe as possible. It’s a small group and it sounds like they are all good friends, so they might be very open to taking some extra precautions. It certainly wouldn’t hurt to ask!

 

[sassenach]

There will always be someone (especially here) that thinks anything social is irresponsible. It's become the new form of mom-shaming.

Time, proximity, environment. I say yes to almost everything my kids want to do, but we work to do it in ways that mitigate exposure. For my kids, environment is key. Outdoors- as much as you want. Indoors- only with a select few people (one friend for each kid), but I'm allowing as much time as they want with those people. Proximity I've had to let go a few times. My son went boating with friends and they rode in the same car together but with windows down. I didn't insist on masking. My dd was at an outdoor party yesterday but was masked the whole time (I usually don't worry about masking outdoors but there was a lot of people there and the smoke was an issue so she had on her N95). Son went camping but only shared a tent with his one person.

My big thing is no prolonged indoor gathering with groups. I would do everything possible to make outdoor gatherings happen. Love the fire pit idea. Can you host? 

My kids are social and they're at important social ages. I saw what full lock down did to them and we're just not going to live like that. Take that for what it's worth.

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by sassenach

[Katy]

I'm really not sure that a fire pit outside will be safer than gaming inside.  You know there will be s'mores and sodas and probably pizza too, so they won't be masked.

I think I'd allow it anyway, given the circumstances.

[sassenach]

15 minutes ago, Katy said:

I'm really not sure that a fire pit outside will be safer than gaming inside.  You know there will be s'mores and sodas and probably pizza too, so they won't be masked.

I think I'd allow it anyway, given the circumstances.

Really? I think those are very different from each other. One is peeing in a bathtub, the other is peeing in the ocean. Get enough people in that bathtub and it's gonna be gross, but in the ocean I'm not even worried.

[Ali in OR]

I think my level of quarantining is similar to yours. I would allow some social interaction now with an expectation that if numbers get worse as fall/winter progresses, there might come a time when it's back to online only. Yes, look at ways to lower the risk--outdoors if possible, wear a mask, stay 6' apart, verify that no one present goes out in other situations, etc--but I would try to find a way to make it happen.

[BusyMom5]

We have been much the same,  and I feel I am slowly loosing my mind!  I the last month I have decided that our family needs more interaction,  so we've been slowly adding in activities.   3 of my kids are in Robotics- its 2 other families.   My oldest is going to college (as long as its in session), and has a low contact job a few days a week.  This is all new!  For 5 months we have been home- we see grandparents and 2 cousins.   Mental health is important,  and staying home so much, without friends,  isn't mentally healthy.  Its a balance.  If we get sick,  we are not high risk.  I would try to stay away from MiL (70, but healthy).  

[Joker]

Oldest meets with five friends every week for D&D. I don’t love it but I do feel it’s necessary. Youngest will only have one in person college class this semester and if she finds a friend or two I am fine with them also hanging out. It’s been a hard balance between worrying about the virus and their mental health and we’ve had to find a compromise we are comfortable with. I’m sure some think we’re not careful enough but this thing has definitely made me less judgmental in many areas because you just don’t know what someone else is going through.

[Terabith]

30 minutes ago, kand said:

I would work to find a way, like Curious’ suggestion of providing the firepit. When there are severe mental health concerns, such that you are legitimately concerned the alternative would be inpatient, the decision making shifts a bit (though I would wonder if meeting with friends in person once every week or two would be likely to make a difference if that’s the case. Is she doing regular therapy with a therapist right now?) I do think your situation needs to be differentiated from a more general “my kid is down about not seeing friends” kind of thing. Lots and lots (maybe most?) kids feel the latter and this isn’t happy for anyone, but I think people should recognize that isn’t the same as someone having serious mental health struggles where you are afraid for their safety. Otherwise everyone will think it’s fine to do risky thinks  because their kids mental health, but in most cases, those people aren’t worried about hospitalizing their kid, or even needing to get them on medication. 

Both kids are on medication and have been for quite awhile.  Oldest has a therapist; youngest does not.  Never really found one that worked well.  Honestly, despite what my husband says, I don't think there's a serious risk of youngest winding up inpatient.  There is a definite risk of oldest winding up inpatient.  But youngest has had serious mental health issues for years, and we've worked on them a lot over a long period of time, and small amounts of time with peers regularly is part of what we've figured out is important.  She's been pretty stable, but we're seeing chinks in the armor.  If this was forecasted to last another month or even two, we could suck it up, but not for another year.  

[Pen]

As between 4 kids from fairly locked down families versus psych ward, being with 4 kids seems preferable.  So I would go with mental health and allow the social time,  I think. 

She may get physically sick either way (at friends or in a psych ward), or bring home infection. 

I guess being only younger girl with group of older boys isn’t a concern?  Are they highly responsible boys both in terms of TeA, emotions, not getting into smoking, vaping, alcohol etc; and also mask wearing and physical distancing ?   If they ended up going somewhere are drivers and vehicles safe?  (I have a senior boy, and know several senior boys currently and am aware that responsibility can vary a great deal. Can even change depending on circumstances. )  Much of this isn’t specific CV19 related, but could be affected, like if driving has gotten rusty while not doing it much. 

Besides eating pizza what do they actually plan to do?

Playing outside may or may not be a senior boy thing — is there something especially fun for that age level?  What do they usually do When they hang out together?

Fire pit may or may not seem “fun” week after week. Also, smoke may temporarily paralyze epithelial cilia making for more vulnerability to respiratory pathogens if any. And there’s been some indication that virus may hitch rides on pollution/dust etc.  

 

[Terabith]

I have no concerns about non covid safety.  They’ve been friends for five years.  Age gap is way smaller than grade gap if that makes sense.  Driving isn’t an issue; teens can’t transport other teens in our state.  

[Scarlett]

5 hours ago, Danae said:

I’m on the higher end of lockdown support for this forum, but I would allow this. It’s relatively low risk, neither you nor the other families are taking a lot of other risks, and your kid’s mental health is important. 
 

This is pretty much us.  We have a 19 year old still at home and he is going and socializing a bit.  We keep reminding him to be safe, be safe, be safe.  My parents drove by where he was the other day and she said they were all outside well apart.  He went to see a girl friend the other night and her family is being so careful they won't even come swim at out house, but she and dss19 sat on her large porch and visited for several hours.  He also hangs out with his guy friend in a small apartment.....and they work on friend's fixer house he just bought.  

I think we need to remember that even the CDC is saying the biggest risk is large gatherings.  

I would allow it.  I would just remind her how important it is to be careful.

[ktgrok]

1. Is this the ONLY social group activity these kids will be participating in? If this is it, and no other social activities in person, and parents are working at home, kids are schooling at home,  I'd lean toward yes. If the other kids (or their parents) are also having many other social activities with other kids, and thus are at higher risk of catching/transmitting it, I'd say no. 

2. If you get it, are you going to transmit it to any elderly or at risk people? Between family, friends, etc it seems that may be the case?