S/O - Showers and Middle schoolers

[Emba]

My DD just turned 13. I kind of think she's getting old enough to remember to bathe herself and wash her hair (and brush it, but that's a different topic) without my nagging. I don't care if she takes a shower every day, but I don't insist on it. On average i think kids here get 2 to 3 showers per week. As she gets older, though, she needs more. She has fine hair and it looks stringy and greasy quickly. Also she just has always had more body odor than my other kids, since early elementary.

Am I off base in thinking she should naturally be taking more responsibility for self care by now? And how do I gently encourage it without coming across as "you stink" and nagging? Some evenings i mention (or she will!) that she needs to shower the next morning before co-op, and she'll agree, and say she'll set the alarm, but when it's time for school the next morning she hasn't done it and we don't have time so she has to go without. I'm kind of worried it will affect her socially.

[TABmom]

I have to force my almost 12 yo boy to shower. He does it at night, because he can't be depended on to do it in the morning. She probably *should* be taking more responsibility, but since she's not, you 'll probably have to keep after her. I'd try to make it a habit and have her do it every night. Tell her that as she gets older she'll need to do it daily and you're just helping her get into that habit so she's ready. 

[Scarlett]

I think it is normal at that age to have to remind.  For my kid it was not too difficult because 'baths every night' had been the norm since birth for him. 

[EKS]

Yes, you are off base.

And my suggestion is to forget about being gentle.  Inform her that she stinks (you don't need to use that word, but I would) and needs to bathe immediately and that from now on, she will bathe, washing all parts including hair, every evening (since morning doesn't work for her).  Then stick to it.  

The reason I suggest making it every evening rather than some other schedule is because in my experience, that sort of routine is easier to enforce.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2019 by EKS

[gardenmom5]

it's nice when they take an interest in their own personal hygiene . . but is seldom realistic.   that's a developmental stage and seems to have a genetic component, and it seems to come *after* all the hormones have kicked in and upped the oil gland production in their hair and BO on their bodies. (it settles down when puberty is over)  

dudeling is willing to take a shower every other day, but he really needs one every day.  I still can't get him to use deodorant either.  at least his big brothers (who still live here and probably will for another year or two.), will get on his case about taking a shower so I have back-up.

what you do, is make it a requirement.   I nag, and I also - you will shower before  you can ___.  and it is something over which I have control.  (for him, his incentive is electronics)

[Rachel]

Can you just make it part of her regular routine? My 11 year old doesn’t really need a shower every day, but daily showers work better for him to be in the routine. He doesn’t need his hair washed often, so we agreed he should do it on Tuesdays and Saturdays no matter what, plus any day he gets really sweaty. So far it’s working and I don’t have to nag him. 

Eta: Tuesdays because he has basketball and Saturdays so he is clean for church in the morning. 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Rachel

[skimomma]

Many 13 yos need help with this.  I agree with others to just make it part of the non-negotiable routine and to be frank about the necessity of it.  Is she in sports?  I have a 15yo who trains almost daily year-round for her sport so daily showering is automatic and has been for years.  Otherwise I would have enforced it.

[Ellie]

No, you aren't off base. If she isn't doing it on her own, I think you're going to need to insist and make sure that she showers and washes her hair.

[Farrar]

2-3 showers a week is not an uncommon number in the rest of the world. Assuming she is using proper hygiene in other ways - brushing teeth, washing hands, using deodorant if she's started puberty, etc. - then I don't actually think her current standard sounds bad. Many adults all over the world take a shower every other day, which means about 3 times a week. Some take less. I mean, I love my daily shower, but it's a luxury - not a necessity.

I agree that whatever the standard you'd like to hold her to, most 13 yos need reminders. FWIW, my boys were horrible about showering through most of middle school. And I was simply not willing to fight with them about it. They probably showered once a week. Yes, even my dancer. Now that they're older, it has resolved itself and they shower at least every other day.

[Bluegoat]

I'm kind of with Farrar, I don't think it's a necessity to shower every day, necessarily.  But it is necessary to groom every day.  For a kid that is smelly that will maybe mean washing armpits and groin and using deodorant of some kind.  Possibly dry shampoo occasionally - washing hair daily is not necessarily good for it and can make it more oily.

So - there are options.  But I would be straightforward about telling her that she needs to do these things, when, and why.

[Tanaqui]

Many kids that age still need reminders. Even if 99% of them didn't, your kid still needs reminders, and it's a lot nicer for you to remind her than for her peers to have to. Trust me, they wouldn't be half as gentle as you! Even if you outright go "Whew, kid, you stink! Go take a shower now, and remember to soap all the parts!" it's still nicer than what her peers would say.

[Emba]

Farrar - do I seem to be laboring under the misperception that daily showers are a must? I ask this in a bemused way, because it seems like it I did, we'd already have daily showers here. Yes, having lived in South America, and having had various European friends and acquaintances, I'm aware that not all of the world thinks daily baths are a necessity. I also know a whole lot of Americans who don't bath daily. I myself try for as often as it takes not to stink. And I wash my hair less often than that, because too frequent shampooing definitely doesn't do my hair any favors. But dry shampoo has not been a good solution here.

I do think it she learns to make daily showers or cleansing of some kind a part of her routine it will be easier to remember. Any type of routine is hard to start, and without me standing over her, hard to enforce (so far as face washing and washing with a washcloth goes. I mean , I can ask and she'll say it's done but the level of face wash I've provided doesn't seem to go down). It's hard on our relationship for me to either treat her like a child who needs constant supervision or to demand proof. Maybe it is just what needs done.

 

[SKL]

Agreeing with those who say this isn't the time to be subtle, LOL.

I will never understand why a developing young lady would want to risk being stinky around other people.  But I have to nag my kids to take a shower.  Usually they will wash in the morning and put on deodorant without a reminder, but apparently standing under a stream of water is a huge hardship.

I do think this will pass ... eventually.  As I pointed out to my kid the other day - I don't wait around for my mother to tell me to shower.  😛

[catz]

Yep, I think this is normal.  I still have to nag my 14 year old daughter at times.  I tell her she smells like her dance studio and to get the shower and throw all her clothes in the laundry.  She is better than she was a year ago.  

My 18 year old son is completely self cleaning now so there's hope!  😂

[LarlaB]

When DD15 was 12/13 I instituted a you.must.shower.every.other.night.no.matter.what policy.

Eventually she learned to see when her hair was greasy and know when she was smelly- but more so she did eventually start to care. 😜 but it took much longer for the caring kick in. 

 

[MercyA]

Gently (and not directed at the OP)...some people do not seem to notice or (maybe care?) that their elementary age kids are regularly stinky. Maybe if a family is not in the habit of bathing often enough, they might get a little used to the odor? Other people do notice, though, and parents who don't insist on baths aren't doing their kids any favors. 😞 

And plenty of kids need deodorant early. I was puzzled by how *very* stinky some of DD10's bras were, even without strenuous exercise, until I realized the problem was inconsistent use of antiperspirant. Now I keep her deodorant right by her bras so she sees it when she gets dressed and is reminded.

[Emba]

Well, I'm glad to see this isn't out of the range of normal. I can't remember when I started caring about hygiene enough to bathe of my own volition but I think it was t least a year earlier, and I got the feeling i was a late bloomer in that regard. But I went to public school. There was definitely lots of peer pressure so far as grooming went.

[May]

Around that age, my daughter had stinky feet😳 I did make a big deal out of it and eventually, she started using foot powder and wearing socks or footies with shoes that were meant to be worn with socks. 

[mathnerd]

Daily showers before bed. it is a part of my son’ nightly routine, after brushing teeth. No discussion or negotiations about it. It is good hygiene!

Edited January 25, 2019 by mathnerd

[Bluegoat]

I think it's true that part of the issue is to get into a habit of washing.  In that vein, I'd think about some of the ways that help get habits established.  One thing is that you have to try and get the kid to buy in to the effort.  But another is that if every time you do all the reminding, that can backfire - the habit becomes, wash when you are reminded.  So - maybe sit down with her and think of some ways she can help herself remember - triggers or times of day where she says - oh, I need to think about whether I need to have a wash now.  

[Farrar]

For me, in middle school, when it was a question of relationship or showers, I picked relationship, hands down. I mean, my kids were still handwashing, toothbrushing, etc. But the shower thing? Ugh. One of my kids and I especially could bicker about it. He was my long haired boy and his hair could get so greasy. And I just had to say, you know, his hair looks icky, but it's not that bad. It's not worth a fight. Unless it becomes an actual health issue or it's before an important event or something, I decided it wasn't worth it.

And, like I said, two years ago, I would have said it might never get better. Now, my boys both bathe routinely. One of them just used the hair dryer!

[TechWife]

I realize that people in every country don't shower every day. It isn't a necessity, health-wise. However, it is a cultural norm here in the US. People who shower at different frequencies smell different and it is noticeable. You need to decide if you want to teach her this cultural norm or not.

I think it is common to have to remind middle school aged children to shower. But, I would do it, and if she stinks, tell her that is why. She needs to learn to connect the lack of showering with odor. She also needs to have good hygiene practices with her genital area, for both odor (blood has a distinct smell, as do vaginal secretions) and health reasons (infections - infections can occur if there is poor rectal cleaning and poor vaginal cleaning).

[katilac]

7 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

I'm kind of with Farrar, I don't think it's a necessity to shower every day, necessarily.  

 

It's usually much more necessary during puberty, lol. Some kids, both boys and girls, just get pretty stinky without that daily shower even if they haven't exercised or anything. 

I don't think that what the rest of the world does is all that relevant, you need to be looking to your local norms for reference. OP, is she going to brick and mortar school? If she is, then yes, absolutely, this can affect her socially. I agree with those who say that families who don't shower every day may not notice an odor but other people often do. When I worked, I had to give the "yes, you actually do need deodorant and a daily shower" conversation twice, and that is not a fun time for anyone. 

fwiw, we were homeschoolers and my kids did not shower every day but they showered every time we had an activity. For an adolescent going to school, I would just default to a shower every school night. She can skip Friday and Saturday nights if she's staying home.

Edited to add that it can affect homeschoolers socially as well, but it's usually not as swift or brutal, lol. 

Edited January 25, 2019 by katilac

[Tanaqui]

I know people who shower every day and people who don't. Except in a few situations there isn't any large difference in the smelliness level because most of them, by adulthood, do clean themselves when they smell bad. Really. But if you or somebody in your care stinks then they need to bathe more often and also make sure their clothes are always fresh. Dirty clothes smell worse than dirty humans... and anyway, I'm sure we all are capable of discerning when our kids smell rancid and making them clean themselves.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Tanaqui

[katilac]

37 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 I'm sure we all are capable of discerning when our kids smell rancid and making them clean themselves.

 

I think, though, that one can't really ignore the fact that the American norm kicks in way, way before rancid. And that puberty is a weird time with weird smells and some extra caution is called for when leaving the house, lol.

Showering the night before co-op or a field trip seems reasonable enough to me. Have a set time to check the calendar so she has time to do it each evening. If you have family dinner, right after is a great time. If you don't, just set a timer. Reviewing the upcoming day is an excellent habit: Do we have to get up early, bring supplies, dress a certain way, take a shower tonight? 

[Bluegoat]

2 hours ago, katilac said:

 

It's usually much more necessary during puberty, lol. Some kids, both boys and girls, just get pretty stinky without that daily shower even if they haven't exercised or anything. 

I don't think that what the rest of the world does is all that relevant, you need to be looking to your local norms for reference. OP, is she going to brick and mortar school? If she is, then yes, absolutely, this can affect her socially. I agree with those who say that families who don't shower every day may not notice an odor but other people often do. When I worked, I had to give the "yes, you actually do need deodorant and a daily shower" conversation twice, and that is not a fun time for anyone. 

fwiw, we were homeschoolers and my kids did not shower every day but they showered every time we had an activity. For an adolescent going to school, I would just default to a shower every school night. She can skip Friday and Saturday nights if she's staying home.

Edited to add that it can affect homeschoolers socially as well, but it's usually not as swift or brutal, lol. 

 

It's entirely possible to wash without showering, and not stink.  

 

[EKS]

23 hours ago, MercyA said:

Gently (and not directed at the OP)...some people do not seem to notice or (maybe care?) that their elementary age kids are regularly stinky. Maybe if a family is not in the habit of bathing often enough, they might get a little used to the odor? Other people do notice, though, and parents who don't insist on baths aren't doing their kids any favors. 😞 

And plenty of kids need deodorant early. I was puzzled by how *very* stinky some of DD10's bras were, even without strenuous exercise, until I realized the problem was inconsistent use of antiperspirant. Now I keep her deodorant right by her bras so she sees it when she gets dressed and is reminded.

This.

In our society, it is pretty typical to bathe daily.  That means that people's noses are attuned to that, and that anything beyond it has the potential to be noticed.  

Just because people in other cultures bathe less frequently is not a reasonable argument for allowing kids in this culture do the same.

Edited January 26, 2019 by EKS

[katilac]

9 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

It's entirely possible to wash without showering, and not stink.  

 

Absolutely, but kids who don't notice their own greasy hair and stuff are not good candidates for that, lol. Which is MANY kids at 13. Standing in the shower gets something done even if they are fast/careless. 

[Jaybee]

I find the "bath/shower" posts kind of interesting. It was norm in my FOO to bathe every night, and so that's what we expected with our kids. We've lived in cultures where it is hot and humid, and strong body odors are common. Not pleasant. In general, my children and I get smelly quickly. It's usually easier to me to actually get a shower than it is to wash off, or at least I feel better. I haven't read the other bathing thread, but my kids always slept better when they went to bed clean. When they got older, they usually switched to morning showers, but due to sports/exercise, often took another at night. I found bluntness to be most effective. With one ds, I had to become increasingly more blunt until he finally got the message and developed better habits, and that did include using the actual words, "You stink, and you need to get a shower--and you need to use soap." I sent him back into the shower a few times when he obviously tried the "I'm just going to get wet and she'll think I've showered" trick. He has a strong distinct smell, and it was easy to tell when he used soap/shampoo and when he didn't. Maybe it would be different if we lived in northern climes, but we've usually lived more southern or in tropical/subtropical climates.

[Farrar]

It's also the American norm to send kids to public school. It's the American norm to watch tons of TV. It's the American norm to eat a lot of processed food. I am not really swayed to make my kids do something that isn't essential to them just because everyone else does it.

Do y'all really think you can tell which kids are showering daily instead of every other day and which kids aren't? Or even which adults? I'm sure I can't.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Farrar

[Frances]

On 1/25/2019 at 4:55 PM, Tanaqui said:

I know people who shower every day and people who don't. Except in a few situations there isn't any large difference in the smelliness level because most of them, by adulthood, do clean themselves when they smell bad. Really. But if you or somebody in your care stinks then they need to bathe more often and also make sure their clothes are always fresh. Dirty clothes smell worse than dirty humans... and anyway, I'm sure we all are capable of discerning when our kids smell rancid and making them clean themselves.

Yes to the dirty clothes. 

Edited March 4, 2019 by Frances

[Chris in VA]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

It's also the American norm to send kids to public school. It's the American norm to watch tons of TV. It's the American norm to eat a lot of processed food. I am not really swayed to make my kids do something that isn't essential to them just because everyone else does it.

Do y'all really think you can tell which kids are showering daily instead of every other day and which kids aren't? Or even which adults? I'm sure I can't.

If kids haven't been taught how to what my mom used to call, "sponge bathe," then they are probably going to become stinky. And peers are going to notice. It may not be best for skin to shower or take a full bath every day, but then we need to teach how to use a facecloth! And many don't. 

We also don't use bidets here in the states, so genital washing is important. 

[Tanaqui]

We really need, as a society, to get on the bidet bandwagon.

[theelfqueen]

On the topic of cultural expectations ...I was an exchange student to Russia in the 90s. We were part of a direct exchange system - so a student stayed with our family, then we went and stayed with that same student's family. 

My experience relative to cultural questions. Americans have a horror of "smelling". This horror is not shared universally. However. Our Russian students quickly adopted American style hygiene habits in America. Frequent bathing, wearing of daily deodorant, and for the girls the relevant shaving habits appeared immediately after the first time they went to an American pool. They wanted to fit in and therefore adopted these habits ... when we went to Russia to stay with them, quite a few had maintained the American habits, but it was vogue at the time to be as American as possible in Russia.

The opposite was not true for the Americans in Russia. I don't recall anyone giving up deodorant, shaving or applying the heavier perfume expected culturally there. Though I will admit I showered less than at home due to unfamiliar fixtures and sometimes weird-to-me hot water limitations (like the hot water shut off late at night). 

[Caroline]

My tweens shower every day. They are athletes and really need to de-funk every day. They don’t need reminding. Don’t get me started on their soccer boots and tennis shoes. 

[Bambam]

My kids needed to bathe daily at this age. Yes, sometimes I had to remind them. It is okay to tell your kids, "Hey, look, you are x years old now. It is time you start remembering to bath daily so you don't smell bad. I'll help, but you need to try to remember too."

And it is okay to go by your stinky child and tell them to go take a shower. And to check them before they go over to friends - or anywhere else!

It is a parent's responsibility to teach their kids to bathe regularly and to apply deodorant - for some kids, you have to remind and remind and remind. 

Please, please do this. We had a kid in our group that this wasn't done at their house, and it was *very* uncomfortable. Don't set your kid up for embarrassment if someone else should say, "Hey, wow it smells *really* bad in here. What's up with that?"

Edited January 26, 2019 by Bambam

[KungFuPanda]

In my opinion, the American norm is to NOT expose others to your natural musk. We’re not used to B.O. as a socially acceptable thing to walk around with. THE “smelly kid” has social consequences in this culture. Our kids are offered showers after gym class so nobody has to smell them in their next class. 

It’s also worth noting that most of us don’t have bidets and some cultures who don’t shower daily do. Without daily showers, at least learn to hit the hot spots. That can go a long way. It takes very little water to clean away B.O.

I’m in a dance class for hours every week. I can’t just walk around in wet clothes! If I had a smelly kid reluctant to shower, I might try sending them to wash while I cook dinner. “See you at the table when you’re clean.” 

My disabled child who needs a lot of help gets bathed regularly. It would be SO EASY and SO FAST if he could do it himself. You can turn a five minute shower into a 1-2 minute shower if water usage concerns you. Turn on the water to get wet, turn it off and soap and scrub, then turn it back on to rinse. 

I smell EVERYTHING so I really appreciate when people aren’t funky. 

[EKS]

12 hours ago, Farrar said:

It's also the American norm to send kids to public school. It's the American norm to watch tons of TV. It's the American norm to eat a lot of processed food. I am not really swayed to make my kids do something that isn't essential to them just because everyone else does it.

Well, actually, I would hope that anyone who decides *for their children* to forgo public school or television viewing is seriously weighing the social implications of their decision.  I'm serious about this.  There are social implications to both decisions, both positive and negative.

You're right.  It certainly isn't essential to bathe every day or every other day or whatever you're not making your kids do.  But the only positive social implications for your decision are in your relationship with your kids.  The social implications they will bear in the outside world, on the other hand, will either be neutral (if they're bathing enough so that body odor is not a problem) or negative (if  they're not). 

So the suggestion to enforce daily bathing isn't because bathing daily is always necessary to avoid negative social implications.  Instead, it is a way to enforce a bathing schedule that keeps the kid from stinking in a way that is least taxing to the parent-child relationship.  When the kid bathes every day, there is no question about whether a bath is happening, so, after a period of adjustment, there is far less room for argument--the answer to whether a bath is happening today is always yes.

None of this helps with other hygiene issues--such as the using of deodorant or the brushing of teeth (ask me how I know)--but at least it solves one problem.

[Farrar]

I don't buy that there are social implications for the vast majority of adults and teens who shower every other day. I'm sure there are some people whose individual funk is such that they need to. But I don't think that's most people. With a clean clothes, some deodorant, and proper hygiene showering every other day is just invisible to others. It's not something fraught with social implications.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Farrar

[Bluegoat]

21 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I don't buy that there are social implications for the vast majority of adults and teens who shower every other day. I'm sure there are some people whose individual funk is such that they need to. But I don't think that's most people. With a clean clothes, some deodorant, and proper hygiene showering every other day is just invisible to others. It's not something fraught with social implications.

 

Seriously, I really do not get this assumption people have that showering two or three times a week means people are smelly, as in BO.

There are likely many people that are bathing that amount and they have no idea, because they still don't stink.

[marbel]

18 hours ago, TechWife said:

I realize that people in every country don't shower every day. It isn't a necessity, health-wise. However, it is a cultural norm here in the US. People who shower at different frequencies smell different and it is noticeable. You need to decide if you want to teach her this cultural norm or not.

I think it is common to have to remind middle school aged children to shower. But, I would do it, and if she stinks, tell her that is why. She needs to learn to connect the lack of showering with odor. She also needs to have good hygiene practices with her genital area, for both odor (blood has a distinct smell, as do vaginal secretions) and health reasons (infections - infections can occur if there is poor rectal cleaning and poor vaginal cleaning).

I agree with this.

One of my kids had to be reminded constantly.  Sometimes I could smell the dirty hair when I wasn't even that close to the child. I'd just tell the kid, "your hair stinks, you need to shower." 

Some people do need to shower daily or they stink.  That's just a fact, it's not personal. I was that way in middle/high school.  I think in general US culture is obsessed with good smells (people burning candles, using oils, fabric softeners, dryer sheets, etc.),  I'm not really into that myself, but I like to do all I can to eliminate unpleasant odors.  

[Tanaqui]

Quote

Our kids are offered showers after gym class so nobody has to smell them in their next class. 

 

Do you mean your personal kids or American kids in general? I was under the impression that showers in schools were increasingly being shut off entirely with no time given to showering after gym even when they're available.

[KungFuPanda]

5 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

Do you mean your personal kids or American kids in general? I was under the impression that showers in schools were increasingly being shut off entirely with no time given to showering after gym even when they're available.

You might be right. My school had showers and my local schools still have and use showers in middle and high school. If it’s a dying practice overall, I’d be out of that loop. 

[EmseB]

 

19 hours ago, TechWife said:

 People who shower at different frequencies smell different and it is noticeable.

I don't know how anyone could possibly know this. Just logically speaking, if you don't notice a smell how do you know if it is because that person showers twice a day, every day, or three times a week? Or are you saying that if you do notice a smell that must mean they aren't showering every day? I know people in my family who shower every day and they can be outside for an hour post-showering and come back in smelling like they haven't bathed in a week. And for others, they can come back in and I wouldn't even notice. Aside from different bodies putting out different odors, people's noses are sensitive to vastly different smells and pheromones in different ways. What I find offensive does not always seem offensive or even noticeable to others.

I just can't figure out how I could know how often someone showers by how they smell at any given time.

[TechWife]

37 minutes ago, EmseB said:

 

I don't know how anyone could possibly know this. Just logically speaking, if you don't notice a smell how do you know if it is because that person showers twice a day, every day, or three times a week? Or are you saying that if you do notice a smell that must mean they aren't showering every day? I know people in my family who shower every day and they can be outside for an hour post-showering and come back in smelling like they haven't bathed in a week. And for others, they can come back in and I wouldn't even notice. Aside from different bodies putting out different odors, people's noses are sensitive to vastly different smells and pheromones in different ways. What I find offensive does not always seem offensive or even noticeable to others.

I just can't figure out how I could know how often someone showers by how they smell at any given time.

I didn't say I could tell how often someone showers. I said people who shower at different frequencies smell different. Someone who showers daily is going to smell differently than someone who showers every three days, or every week, or every two weeks, or whatever.  I also didn't say it was "offensive," I said it was "different."  Differences in body odor can be attributed to body chemistry and to hygiene habits, that's a known fact. Cultural norms (and personal preferences) determine whether or not a particular odor is pleasant or not.

ETA: As to how I know this - it is based upon personal experience with people in a variety of cultures within the US and abroad. It's not hard to figure out that people smell different.

Edited January 26, 2019 by TechWife

[EmseB]

32 minutes ago, TechWife said:

I didn't say I could tell how often someone showers. I said people who shower at different frequencies smell different. Someone who showers daily is going to smell differently than someone who showers every three days, or every week, or every two weeks, or whatever.  I also didn't say it was "offensive," I said it was "different."  Differences in body odor can be attributed to body chemistry and to hygiene habits, that's a known fact. Cultural norms (and personal preferences) determine whether or not a particular odor is pleasant or not.

ETA: As to how I know this - it is based upon personal experience with people in a variety of cultures within the US and abroad. It's not hard to figure out that people smell different.

Ah, I thought you were saying it is noticeable how frequently someone does or does not shower based on how they smell. That's what I erroneously got from the part of your post I quoted. Of course someone who showers daily is going to smell differently than someone who showers less than that, but I would argue that they would smell differently anyway, even if they used the exact same hygiene products and frequency of bathing. And I think you could argue that someone who has not showered in two days but, say, works at home doing sedentary tasks will smell a lot more "culturally normative" at the end of the day than someone who has showered every day of their life and works construction in the hot sun. Which is why I don't think frequency of showering is particularly noticeable, IMO.

So, yes, all people smell different and there are a lot of variables that contribute to that including hygiene. I can't disagree with any of what you've written above. I didn't realize that was gist of the discussion, so I'll stop skimming posts too rapidly, I suppose!!

Edited January 26, 2019 by EmseB

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

I didn't say I could tell how often someone showers. I said people who shower at different frequencies smell different. Someone who showers daily is going to smell differently than someone who showers every three days, or every week, or every two weeks, or whatever.  I also didn't say it was "offensive," I said it was "different."  Differences in body odor can be attributed to body chemistry and to hygiene habits, that's a known fact. Cultural norms (and personal preferences) determine whether or not a particular odor is pleasant or not.

ETA: As to how I know this - it is based upon personal experience with people in a variety of cultures within the US and abroad. It's not hard to figure out that people smell different.

I don't think you can realistically tell the difference between someone who showers daily or someone who showers every other day with decent hygiene and clean clothes in between. I don't buy it. Of course there are differences, but this stuff is so individual. I don't think people's noses are sensitive enough to tell. I mean, someone who does a strenuous, dirty job is going to stink at the end of a day despite a shower. Someone who sits at a desk is going to probably smell cleaner at the end of two days. Someone who has a personal tendency toward smelliness is going to smell more midday than someone who is just naturally less sweaty/smelly after three full days. I don't think your nose knows.

[moonflower]

What percentage of people in the US do you think are showering every day?  From this and the other thread, I'd say certainly not more than 75%.  If that's the case, are you saying that 25% of people that you walk by at Target smell to you like they haven't showered in the last 24 hours?  Like, fully 25% of people are smelly?  I shower pretty often and when I was younger showered and washed my hair daily and I would say that maybe 1 in 50 people smelled odd to me, maybe less than that.

[Guest]

On 1/25/2019 at 10:33 AM, EKS said:

Yes, you are off base.

And my suggestion is to forget about being gentle.  Inform her that she stinks (you don't need to use that word, but I would) and needs to bathe immediately and that from now on, she will bathe, washing all parts including hair, every evening (since morning doesn't work for her).  Then stick to it.  

The reason I suggest making it every evening rather than some other schedule is because in my experience, that sort of routine is easier to enforce.

 

 

That’s my philosophy, too. I don’t think it’s useful to be too tender about it. Other kids won’t be. 

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

 

Seriously, I really do not get this assumption people have that showering two or three times a week means people are smelly, as in BO.

There are likely many people that are bathing that amount and they have no idea, because they still don't stink.

Yeah, I rarely shower daily at this point. Every other day ideally, sometimes into that third day just do to time of day randomness...like early thursday, not on friday, then late on saturday or whatever. But I do wear deodorant, and I'm known to steal a baby wipe from the baby's stash to freshen up the important bits. 

I also change clothes fully daily, so that helps. And sometimes will wash my hair in the sink quickly.