"What can I use for homeschooling that is free and all online and requires no parent interaction and reads outloud becaus the child can't read"

[Katy]

29 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I feel like sometimes we tout the free and cheapness of homeschooling a little too hard. I mean, there are amazing, full curricula out there that are free. There are some great responsive learning technologies out there that are making stuff more accessible to all people. But it's still true that you mostly get what you pay for. And you will probably need to spend either time or money in order to find something that really works well.

It feels like a lot of these parents want some 21st century version of the Robinson Curriculum - remember that nonsense, where you were supposed to buy a box of old, vintage books and throw them at the kid and them leave them alone until they miraculously got into Harvard?

 

Ahh, but even Robinson required 6+ hours of daily supervision, six days a week and year round.  He might have been at his own desk doing his own work, but he wasn't on a computer, he was quietly working and making sure they were doing their own work instead of goofing off. And he didn't believe in starting his teach-yourself plan until a child already knew all the phonics and spelling rules, and had all of the math facts 1-12 memorized by rote.  Then he'd have them start with third grade level materials, somewhere between ages 7-9. And those kids did two hours of math per day, an hour of writing/vocab/spelling, and two or more hours of reading, and an hour of taking turns reading the Bible aloud to each other in the evening. They also corrected their own work, showed their father what they'd done wrong, re-worked math problems until they scored 100%, then they were directed into basically un-schooling themselves in anything else they were interested in during free time.  Never allowing TV, media or computer access, schooling year round six days a week, always exposing them to vintage books with difficult language, and preventing them from wasting time pretty much would provide a pretty good education for many kids, assuming they had the sort of introverted personality where sitting still and quiet working alone at a desk for more than 5 hours a day would work for them at all.  I can tell you it wouldn't work as he described for any of my kids, and I have taken a great deal of my philosophy from him.  It might have worked fine for me, though a parent would have had to stay on me about doing boring Saxon math instead of reading.  But the idea that he was doing nothing is ridiculous even with that self-teaching of a curriculum. He assigned books, he quizzed kids to make sure they really were reading them, he made up vocabulary and spelling tests, gave exams on Saturdays to replicate SAT testing, he very carefully chose many books that would offend a great deal of us on this board for their racist, sexist, and colonialist worldviews, and he spent plenty of time indoctrinating them into his even more strange worldview.  He also made sure they were eating a very clean diet without added sugar or chemicals because he was convinced sugar made it impossible for them to sit still and focus for that long every day. He was also very carefully steering them (by their education) into the sciences because he was convinced the Humanities was a moral minefield.

Many of us here don't make young kids do that sort of rote memorization of math facts - either because we don't see the philosophical need to or because it's a lot of work to spend that much time doing math drills every day. I let my kids have plenty of screen time, and even though I probably give them less sugar than a lot of parents, I'm not that strict about that either, in comparison.

[Bluegoat]

Yes, I see this more and more on the FB group here.  And tough I feel like a snob for saying, most of the time the posts are pretty difficult to read because they are writing in text language, with no capitalization and not much punctuation.

Which has made me wonder - I think all the points people have brought up are true, but perhaps one issue is these parents are younger millennials who really have lived their lives largely online. and that is their frame of reference.  

I've often found that many WTM  parents were people who had a sense of their own educations being inadequate, and so they have gone looking for something more substantial and deeper.  My impression of these people is that they are unaware that there could be a better education.

[EmseB]

Also, I feel like most of the people with little kids (K, 1st, 2nd) who are asking these questions never really get to homeschooling. Maybe they try it for a year or a semester, but what I saw in the circles near in my area is that they got tired quickly and put their kids back in public school. At that age, I think the "damage" of being shabbily homeschooled is really minimal.

Where things worry me is the older grades where public schools don't want the problem kids, the parents are fed up with the public schools, the kids don't care to learn and haven't learned to be self-motivated, and the parents are assured by the school that something like K12 would be a good option.

[Ellie]

8 hours ago, poppy said:

Rant ahead. 

I am seeing this question every single day from parents of 6 and 7  year olds, and I'm fully convinced that at least half of those kids would be way happier in a classroom.

I know it's inside and too many hours. But really.  A child should have SOMEONE in their world who is directly interested in helping them learn. 

Now if you don't think formal learning is important at a young age-- I can respect that. But to force a child to do online classes, while aiming for LOW PRICE rather than quality, stinks. To me.

I have a learning disabled kid and I get that school is not a great place for everyone.  If y Take one hour out of your day to educate your child!!

I'm willing to hear other views.  For the most part, i just feel REALLY sorry for kids when I see these notes over and over.

I feel your rant. Totally. I don't understand why the parents want to "homeschool" if they don't want to spend time with their children. o_0

[Terabith]

I’m no longer homeschooling, but I’m still on a few local Facebook groups and group emails, and I’m seeing stuff like this...not every day but maybe once a week or so.  It’s sad.  I’ve tried once or twice to engage, but it seems pretty pointless.  It doesn’t even seem to mostly be desperate people with kids who were being bullied or in need of something because of an emergency.  They seem...lazy and philosophically opposed to school.  

[LucyStoner]

Between the various homeschooling boards I am on and the local homeschool org, I hear inquiries in this vein about 2-3 times a week.  I try to be sympathetic to people who may be between a rock and a hard place- it’s not uncommon to hear about folks who have had a really challenging experience with the public school but who economically need to work to eat.  But for a lot of them it sounds like they think any homeschool is better than every public school and I think that’s hogwash.  Some of them I just don’t respond to because all I have to say is “no, I will not encourage you to neglect your child’s education out of fear” and so I decide to not say anything at all. 

[Soror]

Sounds about right, I've stopped wasting my time trying to give a big long answer. Way too many hs'ers expect their young kids to perform at a level of independence higher than is expected from college students. 

[....]

3 minutes ago, soror said:

Way too many hs'ers expect their young kids to perform at a level of independence higher than is expected from college students. 

 

Exactly!

[Bluegoat]

It occurs to me - I wonder what they see their kids getting in school in terms of one on one attention or even directed teaching?

[alewife]

K12 and Connections Academy run a ton of tv and radio ads this time of year in my area.  They make it look so easy in their ads: let your child be taught at home by certified teachers using award winning curriculum and a computer that we provide - all for free. 

 I think these ads are contributing to the assumptions and expectations many of us old timers are seeing with the new homeschoolers.  I have had many parents call me stating that they want to homeschool their kids, but they don't want to be the one to teach them.  They ask me how they can find teachers in the homeschooling community that will teach their kids.  Oh, and some of these moms are shocked when I tell them that the teachers in the homeschooling community charge a fee for their services.    

[DawnM]

I didn't ask for free, but I was desperate to help my oldest learn to read and the things I was doing weren't working.  I might have asked something about online help.  I wasn't sure what to do.

Turns out, he had an LD and didn't read until age 9.  He is now 20, in college, but he still struggles with some reading issues.  

Once he was diagnosed, we got Learning Ally, and I wish we had done it WAY earlier!  

[Mimm]

55 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

It occurs to me - I wonder what they see their kids getting in school in terms of one on one attention or even directed teaching?

They may feel like their child is being largely ignored at school. Though they should be seeing this as part of the problem they are seeking to remedy by homeschooling.

The prevalence of these requests make me wonder if the non-homeschooling population in general sees homeschooling like this. Do many or most people assume this is what we do?

[Bluegoat]

Just now, Mimm said:

They may feel like their child is being largely ignored at school. Though they should be seeing this as part of the problem they are seeking to remedy by homeschooling.

The prevalence of these requests make me wonder if the non-homeschooling population in general sees homeschooling like this. Do many or most people assume this is what we do?

 

It should, but often it seems to me that people are just thinking of what the school does as normative, they don't seem to have any real sense of what education looks like, oe even really what it includes.  No sense of child development.  I wonder if they remember learning themselves as kids.

I think many people do think schooling at homes looks different than the reality.  I have had some odd questions asked from time to time.

[....]

15 minutes ago, Mimm said:

The prevalence of these requests make me wonder if the non-homeschooling population in general sees homeschooling like this. Do many or most people assume this is what we do?

 

Yes, they do!  I was at a family dinner once and one relative asked about my kids and homeschooling.  My BIL (who knows nothing about homeschooling) quickly started explaining (before I even had a chance to speak) that MY kids get their school books from the school district and a teacher comes out to our house once or twice a week and teaches.  

Yeah, I almost fell onto the floor in shock.  

[MeaganS]

1 hour ago, Mimm said:

They may feel like their child is being largely ignored at school. Though they should be seeing this as part of the problem they are seeking to remedy by homeschooling.

The prevalence of these requests make me wonder if the non-homeschooling population in general sees homeschooling like this. Do many or most people assume this is what we do?

 

I'm not sure. When I tell people we homeschool, the most common reaction is that they think it's great and wish they could too but they are afraid of the work. So while I see the attitude we're taking about online, in person I see a lot of the opposite too. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by MeaganS

[Mimm]

42 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

It should, but often it seems to me that people are just thinking of what the school does as normative, they don't seem to have any real sense of what education looks like, oe even really what it includes.  No sense of child development.  I wonder if they remember learning themselves as kids. 

I think many people do think schooling at homes looks different than the reality.  I have had some odd questions asked from time to time.

When I was a kid, the questions we got were "Is that allowed/legal?" and "Who teaches you?" Now homeschooling is so common but people still seem unclear on it.

 

28 minutes ago, Evanthe said:

 

Yes, they do!  I was at a family dinner once and one relative asked about my kids and homeschooling.  My BIL (who knows nothing about homeschooling) quickly started explaining (before I even had a chance to speak) that MY kids get their school books from the school district and a teacher comes out to our house once or twice a week and teaches.   

Yeah, I almost fell onto the floor in shock.  

What in the world???

[happypamama]

34 minutes ago, Evanthe said:

 

Yes, they do!  I was at a family dinner once and one relative asked about my kids and homeschooling.  My BIL (who knows nothing about homeschooling) quickly started explaining (before I even had a chance to speak) that MY kids get their school books from the school district and a teacher comes out to our house once or twice a week and teaches.  

Yeah, I almost fell onto the floor in shock.  

I can’t decide if that’s hilarious or appalling. Or both. 

[NormaElle]

2 hours ago, Mimm said:

The prevalence of these requests make me wonder if the non-homeschooling population in general sees homeschooling like this. Do many or most people assume this is what we do?

 

I think most people think my kids are enrolled in "online school" and spend the day in front of a computer. When I explain that I do all the teaching, they are shocked. They usually then ask for how I schedule it, which is hard to answer because we don't have a set schedule each day. People seem to assume that for homeschooling to work you need to schedule your day to the minute. Like a B & M school. ?

Edited July 30, 2018 by NormaElle

[BarbecueMom]

I’ve seen this many times in local online groups.  These groups cover the entire metro area, yet I’d say 75% of these kinds of questions come from parents in the same district I graduated from.  It’s alarming and yet very unsurprising.

My brother was a very quiet, obedient kid with a couple LDs.  I did observation hours in his classroom as part of my music education degree.  He was in an eight student classroom for kids with IEPs, the only student without behavior issues, and the number of times I was left alone in there while the teacher AND aide ran errands elsewhere was disturbing.  Actually, there were a LOT of no-supervision moments happening in regular classrooms too.  I think the day I finished my observation hours was the day I became a homeschooler.

I wonder if those classrooms are now plopping kids in front of screens for a significant portion of their day, given how many are sticking iPads in the hands of little kids, and a hands-off online program ends up not being much different than what the school does.  That doesn’t justify a homeschool doing the same thing.  I suspect my kids use way less tech than their PS peers.  Intentionally.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, alewife said:

K12 and Connections Academy run a ton of tv and radio ads this time of year in my area.  They make it look so easy in their ads: let your child be taught at home by certified teachers using award winning curriculum and a computer that we provide - all for free. 

 I think these ads are contributing to the assumptions and expectations many of us old timers are seeing with the new homeschoolers.  I have had many parents call me stating that they want to homeschool their kids, but they don't want to be the one to teach them.  They ask me how they can find teachers in the homeschooling community that will teach their kids.  Oh, and some of these moms are shocked when I tell them that the teachers in the homeschooling community charge a fee for their services.    

Exactly. I just saw this ad run twice on TV and it really bothers me the way the ad is structured -with holographic people that are supposedly “enriching” the child’s life. 

Heck, I wasn’t even a fan of a grown child I knew who was doing college 100% on-line (not talking about someone trying to fit college into adult life; I mean someone who was otherwise sitting around in the house) because a college degree is not just about memorizing a set of facts and getting a good grade on your digitally-produced paper. This young lady wasn’t interacting with humans and the world much at all. I find it sad.

(Again - not talking about someone unable to gain a degree in any other way. This was a bright, neurotypical, pleasant young lady. But she was not interacting with the world.) 

[LucyStoner]

If a licensed teacher would come to my house 1-2 times a week and teach some things, I’d be down with that.  If I had unlimited financial resources, I’d totally hire more private tutors.  

[Murphy101]

3 hours ago, alewife said:

K12 and Connections Academy run a ton of tv and radio ads this time of year in my area.  They make it look so easy in their ads: let your child be taught at home by certified teachers using award winning curriculum and a computer that we provide - all for free. 

 I think these ads are contributing to the assumptions and expectations many of us old timers are seeing with the new homeschoolers.  I have had many parents call me stating that they want to homeschool their kids, but they don't want to be the one to teach them.  They ask me how they can find teachers in the homeschooling community that will teach their kids.  Oh, and some of these moms are shocked when I tell them that the teachers in the homeschooling community charge a fee for their services.    

 

This. So much of this.

I'm at the point of discouraging home schooling in the sense of not giving any Pollyanna bullshirt.

It's time consuming, emotionally and mentally draining, all those minor  parenting problems? Yeah, now they are also teaching problems. The kid is likely not going to be a natural at essay writing or calculus or biology or civil war knowledge. No, homeschooling doesn't take away free will, and yeah, that means marriages might not look godly and kids might not either. Yes, the laundry and dishes will come second.  On good days.  On most days, it's going to come in somewhere around 20th. There will be hours of their life spent repeating and going over the same thing.  Because once and done is more mythical than reality for the majority.

If they understand all that and are asking the right questions vs questions about how I make chore lists and menu planners, then maybe they have a chance of actually sticking with home schooling.  

[poppy]

16 hours ago, SKL said:

Possibly these people want to be told [given permission] not to homeschool.

 

That is possible. People put out feelers to see how easy something is.

I've had 4 different friends ask about it and I am super honest.  I dont' think I make it sound hard or easy.  "We do different curriculums for science, math, language and history.  It's about 2 hours a day".  And not one of them has followed through with homeschooling.  (Probably more to do with giving up that 2nd income than anything......) 

[katilac]

12 hours ago, Katy said:

 

Ahh, but even Robinson required 6+ hours of daily supervision, six days a week and year round.  He might have been at his own desk doing his own work, but he wasn't on a computer, he was quietly working and making sure they were doing their own work instead of goofing off. And he didn't believe in starting his teach-yourself plan until a child already knew all the phonics and spelling rules, and had all of the math facts 1-12 memorized by rote.  Then he'd have them start with third grade level materials, somewhere between ages 7-9. And those kids did two hours of math per day, an hour of writing/vocab/spelling, and two or more hours of reading, and an hour of taking turns reading the Bible aloud to each other in the evening. They also corrected their own work, showed their father what they'd done wrong, re-worked math problems until they scored 100%, then they were directed into basically un-schooling themselves in anything else they were interested in during free time.  

 

 

Right, by his own explanations, Robinson did plenty. It's all there on his web site. People see "self-teaching" and often don't bother to read his entire description (which, in fairness to him, is very detailed). 

There are a few other factors that I think were important to their success, not the least of which is that all of the Robinson kids are extremely intelligent, with at least some appearing off-the-charts smart. Every child can learn, but not every child can teach themselves academic subjects, much less get to advanced levels. Every student benefits from the chance to do some learning on their own, and every student benefits from struggling through the material at times, but that does not mean every student will thrive with a strong hands-off approach. 

Somewhat related are the facts that dad was a college professor and, when mom died, the three oldest kids were 12, 10, and 9. That means dad was not only highly educated himself, but that the kids were surrounded by other smart, educated people. And the three oldest were advanced enough that they could help each other, and a lot of incidental help was likely provided to the younger children. Perhaps not during "official" school time, but I'm guessing they had each other's backs, lol. The oldest completed two years of college science and math by 16, to give an idea of where he was at 12.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

17 minutes ago, poppy said:

 

That is possible. People put out feelers to see how easy something is.

I've had 4 different friends ask about it and I am super honest.  I dont' think I make it sound hard or easy.  "We do different curriculums for science, math, language and history.  It's about 2 hours a day".  And not one of them has followed through with homeschooling.  (Probably more to do with giving up that 2nd income than anything......) 

 

Cant fault them there...I've been homeschooling for twenty years (with four years to go), and I'm not sure it's a good idea. Between college costs and healthcare, it feels like a huge responsibility to advise anyone to move to one income. When I started hsing in the late 90s it was a different world; we could still tell ourselves that a single breadwinner and a SAHM is a viable setup, as long as you work hard and are frugal! We even said dumb stuff like, "You can easily use your degree or reenter the work force later, after you raise your kids."

I am doggedly seeing it through, and it's possible I'd make the same choice now, because my kids would still be square pegs in a round hole world, but I would be very, very nervous. 

To bring this back to the thread topic, I will say this: I wouldn't quit working and remove a third of my family's income, and wreck my future career plans, to park my kid in front of a computer or tell him to teach himself! Maybe we need to answer these people differently, so they know the job of a homeschool teacher AND the costs to the family. Homeschooling may be worth it. It may be necessary. But it's not going to work if they have no clue about any of this.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Tibbie Dunbar

[Faith-manor]

15 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

 

This. So much of this.

I'm at the point of discouraging home schooling in the sense of not giving any Pollyanna bullshirt.

It's time consuming, emotionally and mentally draining, all those minor  parenting problems? Yeah, now they are also teaching problems. The kid is likely not going to be a natural at essay writing or calculus or biology or civil war knowledge. No, homeschooling doesn't take away free will, and yeah, that means marriages might not look godly and kids might not either. Yes, the laundry and dishes will come second.  On good days.  On most days, it's going to come in somewhere around 20th. There will be hours of their life spent repeating and going over the same thing.  Because once and done is more mythical than reality for the majority.

If they understand all that and are asking the right questions vs questions about how I make chore lists and menu planners, then maybe they have a chance of actually sticking with home schooling.  

Yes, agreed. 

I have heard some of this pollyanna kind of crap before. LOL, it is often from parents who are "homeschooling" a pre-schooler, and telling this stuff to parents about to pull an older child out of PS. It kind of makes my head spin, but I don't like to engage in the conversation. I have become cranky in the past few years about being a free education consultant. I don't have the energy for it, and need to work to pay college tuition and expenses. So I lay low, and wage the internal war to overcome the urge to speak.

[KungFuPanda]

13 hours ago, kitten18 said:

I understand the frustration but what this increase says to me is that people are frustrated and desperate to get their kids out of public school. 

 

With the questions they ask, it says to me that they haven’t really spent time at the table helping their kids with homework.  You don’t have to be a teacher to know this takes time and effort.  It’s probably a better place to start than looking for a computer program to teach your kid while they’re home alone all day. Even an overworked teacher is better than no teacher at all. 

11 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

A popular question I've seen a couple times in the recent months has been, "what is the best curriculum?" by a brand new homeschooler. What surprises me more is the quick one word responses some people offer (ie. A Beka). I usually say something longer, like, well, that depends on a lot of factors. Budget, learning style, online vs offline material, secular vs religious

I just don't like the idea of a new homeschooler shelling out a ton of money on one curriculum because they were told it was "the best" and then realizing it was not a good fit for their child or themselves for whatever reason.

 

I almost wish they’d just pick something inexpensive and do that for a year. For K-1-2 you’re covering mainly the same objectives no matter what you choose. It’s so much easier to find something better once you have a little experience working with a particular child. 

[frogger]

1 hour ago, Plum Crazy said:

Yes I think many confuse nonschooling, deschooling, unschooling, online schooling. It's no surprise since many homeschoolers do too! The online charter I plan to have them attend next school year clarifies in the student handbook that if you are a homeschooler, you give up your homeschooler status and take on the status as a charter school student that is educating at home. 

 

 

My oldest will be 19 soon and none of my children have ever been in school and I can't say I know what a homeschooler is. Some don't even school at home! Do they take public funding? Are they doing dual enrollment? Bah. It has become a vague and meaningless word. Now if I were queen and could control language I would define it as a parent and child taking responsibility for their education, with parents taking the brunt of responsibility when the child is younger and passing it to the child slowly until they are an adult capable of steering their own education but alas I don't control the English language. 

 

ETA: Before someone is offended- I see nothing wrong with schooling away from home. I could also care less if someone else thinks I fit their definition of a homeschooler. When I mentioned not even schooling at home it was in regards to the vague meaning of the word and the confusion people might have regarding it's actual meaning. 

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by frogger

[Angie in VA]

The nice answer is, yes, put the child in school where a teacher will spend time with him. 

The snarky answer I heard in my head as I read the OP was my friend's words, "Just get an air fern that you don't even have to water. Don't bother having children."

[frogger]

Regarding the Pollyanna crap mentioned above, over the years I've heard many people argue for homeschooling. They are advocating for homeschooling not just by making sure people are allowed to do it but also by trying to get as many people to do it as possible. Perhaps we are seeing the results of that.

[Murphy101]

29 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

If a licensed teacher would come to my house 1-2 times a week and teach some things, I’d be down with that.  If I had unlimited financial resources, I’d totally hire more private tutors.  

 

Me too.  Foreign language,  music, ...

[Dmmetler]

4 hours ago, alewife said:

K12 and Connections Academy run a ton of tv and radio ads this time of year in my area.  They make it look so easy in their ads: let your child be taught at home by certified teachers using award winning curriculum and a computer that we provide - all for free. 

 I think these ads are contributing to the assumptions and expectations many of us old timers are seeing with the new homeschoolers.  I have had many parents call me stating that they want to homeschool their kids, but they don't want to be the one to teach them.  They ask me how they can find teachers in the homeschooling community that will teach their kids.  Oh, and some of these moms are shocked when I tell them that the teachers in the homeschooling community charge a fee for their services.    

I had a mom offer me $5/kid/week to teach a preschool/K co-op class from 9:00-12:00 so the parents wouldn't have to do it (I have no child in the co-op at this point).  She felt she was being generous because "we have 5 kids, so that's $25/week!". Uh, $25 for three hours is barely over minimum wage-and does not account for set up, clean up, any materials needed, or my prep time. Not worth it-and kind of insulting when you're making that offer to someone who has taught child development and early childhood education at the university level and has the degrees and certifications required to do so!

[Murphy101]

47 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’m not sure I get this.  I’ve been homeschooling for eight years now and we aren’t quitting anytime soon.  My house isn’t a *total* disaster, but juggling the home keeping responsibilities with limited time and energy is way more of a concern for me than education. I’ve got the teaching part down pretty well, it’s the daily routines and discipline to stay on task and not dawdle that is my fight.

 

I can’t be the only one - and that was a consideration for me even when I was beginning.  Why would that make me an unserious homeschooler or someone who wouldn’t stick with it if I already knew what I wanted to teach and how, but wanted to pick the brains of other homeschoolers for how they bring all the OTHER aspects of life together?  To this day that is my highest interest in talking with other moms.  I don’t need pointers on how to address logic puzzles and the civil war, or which handwriting style to use.  And I didn’t even when I was a newbie.  Maybe ten percent of my homeschooling research time the last decade has been in materials and methods - most has been community and family.  The materials and methods are the EASY parts compared to the people.

 

Meh.  Then say that.  If someone says they've got home schooling but the house management need pointers, fine by me.

But that's almost never what happens. Last month I had a lady ask me for coffee to discuss home schooling.  She is new to home schooling and wanted to know what methods and materials I use.  Okay.  30 minutes into our coffee I can't take it anymore.  The entire convo has been about how she thinks home schooling is wonderful for godly families and how do I menu plan and do chores and... I finally interrupted her as kindly as I could and just said flat out, menu plans won't teach Timmy algebra or develop his writing skills. And I kid you not she used one of my top 5 hated phrases.  She said, "oh I know but I'm educating for heaven, not Harvard."  ugh. I really hate that phrase.  I'm not delusional about my kids academic chances of Harvard, but it's not in conflict with heaven to educate them as best I can.   Another time, a gal was stunned, STUNNED, when she heard how I teach writing.  I'm literally sitting over them for about 20-30 minutes a day. She couldn't believe it.  But with other subjects and so many kids that means I spend several hours every day sitting with them going over work? Yes.  Really, I'm schooling 6 kids currently, ages 7-17, so why would 2-4 hours a day on their education seem shocking? That's just bizarre to me to expect less than that.  There's making sure the work is done, corrected, discusses, guidance on how to do it properly, research for problem areas ... that takes time and frankly, I'm kinda feeling rather kick ass to get the majority of it done in <4 hours. Then some newbie or not so newbie who comes to me often because they are struggling and the Pollyanna bs doesn't seem to be panning out as advertised and thinks I'm just some crazy over achiever. Just... What?

Edited July 30, 2018 by Murphy101

[PeachyDoodle]

Add me to the list of those who are seeing things like the OP on a regular basis. Just saw one this morning, matter of fact.

18 hours ago, Quill said:

And don’t even get me started on posts I see that are full of the most incoherent grammar and errors. I know we all get lazier on a computer in informal contexts but still. I see things that make me feel extremely sorry for some kids if that is the person who is going to be “teaching” them. 

Yep. I pulled dd from ps after two consecutive years of teachers who couldn't put together a grammatically coherent one-page newsletter. It was scary.

17 hours ago, ClemsonDana said:

One of the moms who does tours for families considering our co-op was talking about the number of families that she's had recently that come in and ask where they go to get their curriculum, or who tells them what to do.  They don't mean 'What stores/websites should I check?' - they think that somebody will issue them a curriculum.  They don't seem to understand that homeschooling means that it's all on you to make sure that the kids learn a reasonable set of things.  They assume that somebody at the co-op will make sure that their kids get what they need.  

I see a lot of this too. I'm always tempted to post a "let me google that for you" link to homeschooling in reply. I can't believe the number of people who are planning to homeschool but think that somebody else will provide them with everything they need.

1 hour ago, poppy said:

 

That is possible. People put out feelers to see how easy something is.

I've had 4 different friends ask about it and I am super honest.  I dont' think I make it sound hard or easy.  "We do different curriculums for science, math, language and history.  It's about 2 hours a day".  And not one of them has followed through with homeschooling.  (Probably more to do with giving up that 2nd income than anything......) 

I am very careful in my response to people who ask me personally what homeschooling is like. I will never say "it's easy!" or "you can do it!" I usually say something along the lines of, "It's not for everybody, although you might surprise yourself." I have extended numerous offers to friends and acquaintances who are considering homeschooling to meet, to look at the materials we use or get suggestions of other things to check out, even to observe a school day in action. Not one person has ever taken me up on it. Every single one has abandoned the idea of homeschooling. Which, to be fair, is better than taking on a responsibility that you're not prepared to commit to.

[Dmmetler]

32 minutes ago, frogger said:

 

My oldest will be 19 soon and none of my children have ever been in school and I can't say I know what a homeschooler is. Some don't even school at home! Do they take public funding? Are they doing dual enrollment? Bah. It has become a vague and meaningless word. Now if I were queen and could control language I would define it as a parent and child taking responsibility for their education, with parents taking the brunt of responsibility when the child is younger and passing it to the child slowly until they are an adult capable of steering their own education but alas I don't control the English language. 

 

ETA: Before someone is offended- I see nothing wrong with schooling away from home. I could also care less if someone else thinks I fit their definition of a homeschooler. When I mentioned not even schooling at home it was in regards to the vague meaning of the word and the confusion people might have regarding it's actual meaning. 

 

I have no clue if I'm a homeschooler or not anymore. DD is taking most of her classes at the CC, plus working with an online Spanish tutor and doing a weekly science class that another homeschool mom is running. I am literally teaching nothing to her this fall. But I am still the one with responsibility for her education and making those decisions, and we still have to have her apply to universities as a homeschooler and do the homeschool hoops.  It's not that I don't want to homeschool...it's that she outgrew me academically before she outgrew the need to be parented and live at home.

[Faith-manor]

3 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

Cant fault them there...I've been homeschooling for twenty years (with four years to go), and I'm not sure it's a good idea. Between college costs and healthcare, it feels like a huge responsibility to advise anyone to move to one income. When I started hsing in the late 90s it was a different world; we could still tell ourselves that a single breadwinner and a SAHM is a viable setup, as long as you work hard and are frugal! We even said dumb stuff like, "You can easily use your degree or reenter the work force later, after you raise your kids."

I am doggedly seeing it through, and it's possible I'd make the same choice now, because my kids would still be square pegs in a round hole world, but I would be very, very nervous. 

To bring this back to the thread topic, I will say this: I wouldn't quit working and remove a third of my family's income, and wreck my future career plans, to park my kid in front of a computer or tell him to teach himself! Maybe we need to answer these people differently, so they know the job of a homeschool teacher AND the costs to the family. It may be worth it. It may be necessary. But it's not going to work if they have no clue about any of this.

Really agree here!!!

I really wish I had been more practical about the cost of homeschooling, and by that, I mean the long term cost, not the dollars spent on curricula or museum memberships or whatever.

 

[Murphy101]

40 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I almost wish they’d just pick something inexpensive and do that for a year. For K-1-2 you’re covering mainly the same objectives no matter what you choose. It’s so much easier to find something better once you have a little experience working with a particular child. 

 

I have no problem with this.  It's what I did.  I knew of exactly one home schooler when we reached a point where the public schools were no longer a viable option to us. She was a stranger I met the summer before at a public pool during swim lessons.  I was shocked that such a large family (I mean holy moly she had SIX kids! LOL) would home school and I remembered that she said she went to X parish.  So 6 months later I probably sounds like some crazed nut calling her out of the blue and asking what I should do. I didn't have much money either.  She said I should just buy Seton and join a local support group.  She paid my membership dues for me without telling me. I ordered registered with Seton for kindergarten and first grade and the rest is history.  That first year, there's more energy going into figuring out the new dynamics of things and not having the stress of curriculum shopping was probably the best thing for all of us.

[Chelli]

9 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

 

Another time, a gal was stunned, STUNNED, when she heard how I teach writing.  I'm literally sitting over them for about 20-30 minutes a day. She couldn't believe it.  But with other subjects and so many kids that means I spend several hours every day sitting with them going over work? Yes.  Really, I'm schooling 6 kids currently, ages 7-17, so why would 2-4 hours a day on their education seem shocking? That's just bizarre to me to expect less than that.  There's making sure the work is done, corrected, discusses, guidance on how to do it properly, research for problem areas ... that takes time and frankly, I'm kinda feeling rather kick ass to get the majority of it done in <4 hours. Then some newbie or not so newbie who comes to me often because they are struggling and the Pollyanna bs doesn't seem to be panning out as advertised and thinks I'm just some crazy over achiever. Just... What?

 

I gave  a talk about teaching writing in your homeschool at a small homeschool conference earlier this year. When I was doing the high school session, I made it a point to mention  that your high schooler will need you to be a participant in the writing process even at that level. I explained that even if all you did was be a sounding board for thesis statements or brainstorming ideas or helping to edit, writing is not a solitary endeavor. I had one mom visibly shaking her head in the back and saying, "I can't commit to that." At which point I said, "Then find an online class or a co-op that teaches writing because that's what your child needs to become a strong writer." 

?

[SKL]

38 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I have zero regrets about being a single income homeschooling family, but I think you’re right that it behooves us to not underrepresented to workload.  I think it’s fairly easy most days, but it’s still hours of work and time and attention and prep for the whole family.

Yes - not referring to you personally, but I've often seen posts where people say they spend like 20 minutes a day for a 5yo to 7yo.  I suspect that isn't all-inclusive.  Even if a kid (a) learns super quick and (b) doesn't crave more academics, he still needs interaction.  And the teacher also has other duties (prep / reporting) that s/he wouldn't have to do if not homeschooling.

I considered myself a homeschooler for about 6 months when my kids were KG age.  Even then, I spent a good 2 hours per day working directly with them, in addition to having them do art, phys ed, handwriting, music, foreign language, and playing-with-kids elsewhere.  That was with just using the books I had and going to the zoo / museums.  I would have continued to homeschool if necessary, but honestly it would have been second-best in many respects.  I can't see myself doing their middle school right now.  I mean, parents do what they need to do, but it sure would be hard.

[rebcoola]

I have seen a little of this but not tons maybe their is more at meetups full of little ones.  We do have this problem with our ALE and their award winning MS program.  Its been all over the news because the kids do amazing things and the school district is very open in steering students to it when there are issues.  Unfortunately they have had to tighten up the enrollment process because so many people signed their kids up and just left them on their own.  6-8th graders in general are not capable of going to class one or twice a week and than doing all the rest of the work unsupervised.  Those lucky kids came failed and than had to take those transcripts back to the regular schools not helpful at all I am sure.

[frogger]

9 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

I have no clue if I'm a homeschooler or not anymore. DD is taking most of her classes at the CC, plus working with an online Spanish tutor and doing a weekly science class that another homeschool mom is running. I am literally teaching nothing to her this fall. But I am still the one with responsibility for her education and making those decisions, and we still have to have her apply to universities as a homeschooler and do the homeschool hoops.  It's not that I don't want to homeschool...it's that she outgrew me academically before she outgrew the need to be parented and live at home.

 

 

But the important thing is you are doing what is best for your child. That is really all that matters.

 

I just think homeschoolers as a group have out grown the word homeschooler. I don't know if I'm one either.

 

When discussing what is best for my child it is just not concrete enough for planning. If someone is asking me questions on whether they should "homeschool" I can't really say.  I think plans of action and discussions of pros and cons take more specifics. 

 

 

 I could say I homeschool my eldest son since he won't technically graduate until next year but that might be confusing to outsiders since he does very little at home. Next year, it will be only one class at home well, and lots of life skills. Of course, how much detail I want to go into our conversation will make a difference in how I respond to questions.

[Dmmetler]

I think homeschool discussions on cost are often skewed by how many homeschooling expenses overlap with regular expenses. So it's easy to attribute the big Rainbow resource order to homeschooling, but not the 6 boxes of toothpicks picked up at the grocery store so your 8th grader can make the toothpick bridge and test it like was suggested in the physical science book. I don't think I've ever done a "household items" experiment that didn't require picking up something somewhere. I never taught a co-op that I didn't have to buy supplies-so a $20/semester rent to the church co-op usually was more like $120 by the time I paid for the materials for the two weeks I was responsible for.  I run my clubs relatively cheaply up front, but I suspect that most of the parents end up donating $50 or more in materials and supplies by the end of the year. I KNOW I do.  Christmas, Birthday....a lot of gift giving occasions included stuff for school. The fun stuff, but still stuff that ended up under the "Christmas" budget, but that probably wouldn't have been as likely to be a Christmas gift were it not that I could use it for school. 

 

It still might have been less expensive than PS. NOt sure. I do know that when DD started taking most of her classes at the CC,and I was paying tuition up front and books, but not needing many of the day to day supplies,  I ended up spending quite a bit less under the "Household" line item, even though "education" went up.

[Dmmetler]

1 minute ago, dmmetler said:

I think homeschool discussions on cost are often skewed by how many homeschooling expenses overlap with regular expenses. So it's easy to attribute the big Rainbow resource order to homeschooling, but not the 6 boxes of toothpicks picked up at the grocery store so your 8th grader can make the toothpick bridge and test it like was suggested in the physical science book. I don't think I've ever done a "household items" experiment that didn't require picking up something somewhere. I never taught a co-op that I didn't have to buy supplies-so a $20/semester rent to the church co-op usually was more like $120 by the time I paid for the materials for the two weeks I was responsible for.  I run my clubs relatively cheaply up front, but I suspect that most of the parents end up donating $50 or more in materials and supplies by the end of the year. I KNOW I do.  Christmas, Birthday....a lot of gift giving occasions included stuff for school. The fun stuff, but still stuff that ended up under the "Christmas" budget, but that probably wouldn't have been as likely to be purchased t were it not that I could use it for school. 

 

It still might have been less expensive than PS. NOt sure. I do know that when DD started taking most of her classes at the CC,and I was paying tuition up front and books, but not needing many of the day to day supplies,  I ended up spending quite a bit less under the "Household" line item, even though "education" went up.

Sigh. I was trying to edit, not post a duplicate! Sorry!!!

Edited July 30, 2018 by Dmmetler2

[Bluegoat]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

Yes, agreed. 

I have heard some of this pollyanna kind of crap before. LOL, it is often from parents who are "homeschooling" a pre-schooler, and telling this stuff to parents about to pull an older child out of PS. It kind of makes my head spin, but I don't like to engage in the conversation. I have become cranky in the past few years about being a free education consultant. I don't have the energy for it, and need to work to pay college tuition and expenses. So I lay low, and wage the internal war to overcome the urge to speak.

 

One of the ladies who runs the homeschooling group here posted an article earlier in the year along those lines - how easy it was, anyone could do it, it was less than two hours a day.  I don't usually post there but I did that time, and said that I thought it was kind of misleading, particularly for parents with older kids.  In a nice way.  No one else said boo though a few liked my comment. 

I just don't see who is served by that, the idea I think is to help people feel empowered, but what if they take on something under a really false idea of what is involved.  What was really weird to me though is that this women didn't have young kids, hers were teenagers.  So - shouldn't she have known better?  I'm positive she was spending way more time than that on her work.

[regentrude]

4 hours ago, Evanthe said:

Yes, they do!  I was at a family dinner once and one relative asked about my kids and homeschooling.  My BIL (who knows nothing about homeschooling) quickly started explaining (before I even had a chance to speak) that MY kids get their school books from the school district and a teacher comes out to our house once or twice a week and teaches.  

Yeah, I almost fell onto the floor in shock.  

People are not clear about the distinction between homeschooling and homebound public education . The latter which works exactly as your BIL described. 

[BusyMom5]

I consider myself still a newbie (on year 5 of homeschooling, but kids 2nd to 10th grades) and I have noticed this, too.  My Jr high abd high schoolers take a lot of time!  They may do a lot on their own, but planning and prepping take me just as long.  My 2nd grader is still very hands on at this point, too.  2 hours for Kindy is a good start, but that time commitment will go up as they age.   I get aggrivated at the number who want to be able to plop a kid down in front of a computer while they work a regular job from home.  I have worked from home for years, and I cannot work while also teaching.  I can do one or the other, not both.  That means if I have a bunch of work, school is light.  I usually end up working after schooling 4 hours, working evenings and weekends.  I consider homeschooling a privilege, and it takes a lot of work.  If you don't have the time, just send them to public school.  I live in a low regulation state,  and I really think that there are a lot of homeschoolets getting a poor education.

[vonfirmath]

22 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

Is anyone seriously hearing different people say things like that “every single day” or “all the time?”

Where are you going and what kind of people are you meeting? 

I’m not trying to be rude, but it’s hard for me to imagine that anyone hears random people ask on a daily basis (or even frequently) about what they can use for homeschooling “that is free and all online and requires no parent interaction and reads out loud because the child can’t read.” 

I have occasionally met a parent who doesn’t want to put in much effort to homeschool their child, but I would think it would be rare to meet people every day who have the kind of extreme attitude described in the OP. For that matter, how many of us even meet that many brand new homeschoolers on a daily basis, even counting online forums?

 

 

 

Maybe not everyday. And not all in one place like that. But I see it frequently on our local homeschool page. (which is for those friendly to homeschooling as well). They start out looking for something low cost for their elementary student. Except in the course of communication you find out low cost=free. And the child can't read yet so they need online or an app.  That will do all the planning for the parent.

[vonfirmath]

21 hours ago, dmmetler said:

I have no clue if I'm a homeschooler or not anymore. DD is taking most of her classes at the CC, plus working with an online Spanish tutor and doing a weekly science class that another homeschool mom is running. I am literally teaching nothing to her this fall. But I am still the one with responsibility for her education and making those decisions, and we still have to have her apply to universities as a homeschooler and do the homeschool hoops.  It's not that I don't want to homeschool...it's that she outgrew me academically before she outgrew the need to be parented and live at home.

 

You are still a homeschooler. This is how my sister is managing my nephew's education this year (outsourcing content subjects  -- mostly due to the fact that they have some other boys in their community taking these classes and it will help with social needs that are not being met well enough elsewise). But it is still her and her husband making the decision to do so and they could easily change that decision next semester, etc.

 

ETA: Nephew just turned 17. He's effectively a junior with next year planned as his senior year. But since he'll turn 18 next June and experiences with older DD, I do wonder if they will decide to graduate him a year early and let him move on. Scholastically he's already well prepared.

Edited July 31, 2018 by vonfirmath

[Heatherwith4]

 Speaking of outgrowing the word homeschooling - People are regularly shocked to hear that I teach all my kids all their subjects.  No, we aren’t in a co-op.  No they don’t take classes at the ps.  (I’m not dissing any of those options or online classes either.  It’s just not what we are currently doing. I’m sure that will change soon, as my oldest is a rising 8th grader.)  People seem really shocked when I tell them that.    Yes, they participate in all kinds of extra curriculars where they learn from other people, but I teach all their official school subjects.  Anyway, my point is that homeschooling is hard to define at this point. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

 

One of the ladies who runs the homeschooling group here posted an article earlier in the year along those lines - how easy it was, anyone could do it, it was less than two hours a day.  I don't usually post there but I did that time, and said that I thought it was kind of misleading, particularly for parents with older kids.  In a nice way.  No one else said boo though a few liked my comment. 

I just don't see who is served by that, the idea I think is to help people feel empowered, but what if they take on something under a really false idea of what is involved.  What was really weird to me though is that this women didn't have young kids, hers were teenagers.  So - shouldn't she have known better?  I'm positive she was spending way more time than that on her work.

Even though I am not recent to homeschooling (started in 2002), I still say that I was falsly lured into thinking “homeschooling takes two hours a day” and “most homeschoolers are finished for the day by lunch.” This may be accurate for first graders, but few people online or IRL ever said otherwise or ever made a distinction between little kids and older kids. The “logical”explanation given was that “teachers spend a lot of time taking attendence, preparing to move to other classes, stopping to address behavior problems...” and supposedly, by homeschooling, I would just buzz along without interruption for two hours and then go frolic in the meadow for the balance of the day. ???

In some ways, I wish a few people had just leveled with me, especially once I had my very energetic youngest child. I spent a couple years feeling like a half-cocked nutjob because my demon child took all my endurance and we couldn’t get through the most basic homeschooling task without 78 interruptions. I was really wondering how other people were succeding with finishing homeschooling by lunch when I was struggling to comb my hair by lunch.