"What can I use for homeschooling that is free and all online and requires no parent interaction and reads outloud becaus the child can't read"

[Lang Syne Boardie]

41 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

I have noticed that it is harder to sell used curriculum (good, solid stuff, not Evan Moor workbooks). People are looking for the lastest hands-free online stuff instead of actual books. 

 

I've got old Sonlight instructor's guides (pre-k through 100) that I am not going to bother listing. They were used for 2 to 5 children, and I did write in them. They are not the latest versions, but they are complete. Even in that state, I could have sold them easily, for about 40% of whatever the current new cost might be, ten years ago. But these days, I cannot imagine a newbie that wants to expend that much time and effort every day!

Having run down the newbies, I will also say that I wouldn't buy them, either, today. They are as dated as Five in a Row, which I also loved. If I ever conduct a Grandma School, I won't want SL, I'll want SOTW and a bunch of other stuff that I have used and am saving for that potentiality. 

But times have definitely changed, when an open-and-go program is now too much work.

[Happy2BaMom]

3 hours ago, Mimm said:

All these poorly educated homeschool students are going to grow up and speak out against homeschooling. Eventually, the backlash is going to be loud enough that homeschool rights are very threatened, or regulations will be adopted everywhere.

This morning I came across a post on a local homeschool group expressing shock that people homeschool 5-6 hours a day and saying they must count video gaming and chores. I live in Missouri where we have to count hours and getting that 1000 hours a year in is a preoccupation for a lot of people. 1000 hours is a bit much in the younger years so you end up counting anything remotely educational at first. But by the time they're in like 5th or 6th grade (maybe earlier, maybe later, depending on how fast or slow your child works), it's totally doable using only actual school work. I counted all the reading my kids did and never had trouble getting to 1000. But people are still counting going to the grocery store or having normal every day parenting conversations as school hours.

 

That is what I fear. For instance, Tara Westover's book, Educated, has been a #1 NYT bestselling book. It's a searingly powerful non-fiction book, detailing Westover's childhood struggles (including near-complete educational neglect because she was "homeschooled", and regular physical abuse from a mentally troubled & violent older brother, & more)  in her survivalist fundamentalist-LDS (not sure if that is the most appropriate term, don't kill me) family and her eventual escape through self-study & college scholarships. Or take the testimonies of the Homeschoolers Anonymous crowd. All of these things shape public opinion and motivation for legislation. 

Given the (seemingly) increasing numbers of children that now face lackluster educations at home, there will be more of these stories in the years ahead. And, yes, public school does fail children, too (that's why I pulled mine to begin with). But public school doesn't have the same big ole bulls-eye on it's back that homeschooling does. And when homeschoolers - still - are such a small percentage of the population, it's important to remember that public perception matters....potentially a lot. 

[TechWife]

11 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Someone just posted (on FB) asking about a free program for their high school aged child that is home bound. I hope I didn’t come across as a meanie but I said I think for high school they may be hard pressed to find something free that checks all the boxes. I suggested they look for reasonably priced options instead. I do know a mom that uses all free but I don’t know the links off hand and I think compiling the list may be more hands on than the parent is prepared for. I don’t know though. 

That's called a home bound teacher and is available free through their public school, if the child is truly home bound.

[prairiewindmomma]

survivalist fundamentalist Mormon isn't a thing-----There are wackos in most religions.  The fact that Westover scored high enough on her SAT to be admitted to BYU (which has competitive enrollment) makes me think that while her struggles are real and deplorable, she still had perhaps more opportunities than some other homeschooling families I hear of.  

I think part of the perception that new homeschoolers get comes from the stupid things we say about public schools.  "Public schools don't REALLY educate for 1000 hours a year. With all of the interruptions, it's probably only an hour of real teaching a day."  We take a nugget of truth (homeschooling can be more efficient in instruction) and then create all kinds of misperceptions.

I have kids in public school, and I homeschool others.  On paper, the public schools are not great ones. They're also not educational wastelands.  We shouldn't portray them generally as such.

[Happy2BaMom]

17 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

survivalist fundamentalist Mormon isn't a thing-----There are wackos in most religions.  The fact that Westover scored high enough on her SAT to be admitted to BYU (which has competitive enrollment) makes me think that while her struggles are real and deplorable, she still had perhaps more opportunities than some other homeschooling families I hear of.  

I think part of the perception that new homeschoolers get comes from the stupid things we say about public schools.  "Public schools don't REALLY educate for 1000 hours a year. With all of the interruptions, it's probably only an hour of real teaching a day."  We take a nugget of truth (homeschooling can be more efficient in instruction) and then create all kinds of misperceptions.

I have kids in public school, and I homeschool others.  On paper, the public schools are not great ones. They're also not educational wastelands.  We shouldn't portray them generally as such.

 

?? Of course there are wackos in most religions. I never said there wasn't. Regardless of whether my term is an actual "thing" or not, Westover's family were (& perhaps still are) definitely survivalists, are Mormon, and are severely literalistic in their approach to the Bible & the book of Mormon. (I was merely giving a summary of the book, not trying to pick on the LDS religion.) And I think you need to read her book before you start making assumptions about how she scored so high on her SATs. It certainly wasn't due to any help from her family. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Happy2BaMom

[teachermom2834]

1 hour ago, dmmetler said:

At our recent getting started meeting, there was a discussion on days/hours (180 days/4 hours). For a 5 yr old, yeah, you probably won’t spend four hours of seat work a day, and a lot should look like play and field trips to the “touch a truck” day the local band puts on as a fundraiser.  But by middle or high school, well, the only response I could make is “trust me, if you actually teach everything that your child needs to be college ready, you’ll be over the days/hours required”. I do think it still takes less time than PS, though-DD is generally able to get her school work and outside class work and classes in during what would be a normal school day, while her same age-friends are doing several hours a night on top of that. But yeah, she probably puts in from 8:00-3:00 daily. And that’s not counting reading for fun, music practice, sports practice, or her herp stuff. 

I am in the same state and people hang on the 4 hours a day requirement. My ds will tell people about his schoolwork and they will say “why? You only need 4 hours per day!” 

Also people will post questions and the response will be “it’s easy! Only 4 hours a day!” as an answer. 

My 10th grader has eight online classes so way more than 4 hours a day. But he still has time for extracurriculars and manages more time than I like playing Fortnite. Yet people act like I’m abusive. What..he needs more Fortnite time??

It makes me crazy and I’ve withdrawn from the community. Which stinks because  I do have plenty of experience I’m willing to share.

[EmseB]

I do have to say that for every question I see about how to do hs'ing without any work (which, again, I think those people are largely putting their kids back in school after a year or so of trying it out) I see questions from parents in CC gung ho about figuring out how to get their kid through Henle in 7th grade, or the mom of the 3yo wanting to figure out what curriculum to get because she's chomping at the bit. I see a lot of Type-A people in my homeschooling circles who are really invested in their kids getting a rigorous education and providing an environment of learning in the home. Maybe I've insulated myself, but I don't think the HS'ing community is really going to hell in a handbasket quite as badly as this thread would make out.

I also am a bit hesitant to maybe, perhaps suggest that maybe there is a little bit of "back in my day" going on in this thread. When my MIL was homeschooling DH, all she had available as resources were ABeka and whatever textbooks she could get from the local Christian school's leftovers. It wasn't exactly a golden age. She definitely put in the work, but she marvels now at all the resources available and how people use them. And I honestly think that homeschooling the way a lot of people do it here on the WTM is not nor has ever really been the norm across the board. Classical homeschooling, I've found, has always been lonely with a lot of people wondering why I'm doing what I do with my kids.

I think homeschooling is "trendy" in that it is now more often suggested when kids have LD's and are having trouble in public school. I think parents are more likely to try it out as an option. But I haven't seen a large trend of uncommitted parents strapped for time continuing to stick with homeschooling once they figure out what a commitment it actually is. In my area that I just moved away from, which was not far from Quill, there were a lot of these people who I might give the side-eye for homeschooling because they were...flaky, to put it not very kindly. But as of now, 3 years later, I think 100% of those kids that I was worried about are back in PS. So, yeah, they were asking those questions a few years ago that were making everyone aghast, but you can kind of see where that is headed. And did their young kids suffer from being out of the PS for 1 or 2 years? Maybe. Comparatively to the average education everyone leaves PS with? Probably not.

And I take complaints from young adults with a grain of salt, even Homeschooler's Anonymous. I am fully prepared for my kids to have a beef with how they were educated or raised, and trust me, we are not slacking in the academics department.

[fairfarmhand]

48 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

survivalist fundamentalist Mormon isn't a thing-----There are wackos in most religions.  The fact that Westover scored high enough on her SAT to be admitted to BYU (which has competitive enrollment) makes me think that while her struggles are real and deplorable, she still had perhaps more opportunities than some other homeschooling families I hear of.  

 

I just finished that book and it wasn’t a “I want to go to BYU and I’ll take the sat. “ it took her a long time of study and prep. She also talks about how horribly unprepared she was, even after gaining admission, for college. 

She didnt know what the holocaust was. She spent years trying to act like she was educated while trying desperately to catch up.

you could say “look at the results. Eventually she did fine.” But she definitely did start with a huge disadvantage and if she’d not had the work ethic she was given by her family she would have failed.

Her family’s view of homeschooling definitely left her unprepared for higher education. 

[Targhee]

So they want free, uninvolved, online, and they want someone else to do the research for them.  And now they also want them to be magically ready for college.  I just saw a post from a parent whose child struggles in math.  This is a 16 year old, who is still working on PreA.  Rather than asking how to help the child, if an alternate approach would work, whether she should seek evaluations, if summer intensive math was an option, etc.  she asked "how do I list this on his transcript for colleges?" ?  

 

ETA I am not against people asking for help!!! And kids who struggle in math can go to college - after the struggles are worked out.  I just am surprised that the mom was seemingly trying to gloss over math difficulties and make it look like he's ready for college.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Targhee

[prairiewindmomma]

I'm not in any way condoning her parent's behavior or trying to minimize her lack of provided education.  My point is that she was functionally literate enough and had enough skills and access books to self study. She also somehow found a way to take the SAT at 17 and get out. When I lived in south TX, I saw plenty of kids who were not functionally literate at 17, and who could not get beyond basic operations in math.  Self-studying is not going to be "enough" for them. Their best hope is to get into a GED recovery program and learn basic literacy skills because they didn't even have the tools to self-study.  Some of them had undiagnosed severe learning disabilities, some had disrupted educations (migrant families) but a scary number of them had parents who were completely disinterested in any type of education (and in all likelihood in part because they themselves are undereducated).  

When we allow, socially, families to claim religious reasons as justified reasons for opting out of educating their children with the masses--we are providing legitimacy but not necessarily providing oversight. I think a lot of failures occur because of the lack of oversight. Idaho does not require registration, reporting, or testing. No minimum days or hours must be logged.  Texas is similarly a low (almost no) regulation state.  Until everyone is willing to both accept freedom AND responsibility in homeschooling, we're going to have problems. 

 

 

[Meriwether]

4 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Just saw another one of these today. Parent wants as close to free as possible and 100% online. This is for a 5 and 7yo. SMDH.

I saw that. Just maybe the reason she can't find a complete and cheap online program for a 5 year old is that it is completely developmentally inappropriate for a 5 year old to learn that way.

[maize]

17 minutes ago, Meriwether said:

I saw that. Just maybe the reason she can't find a complete and cheap online program for a 5 year old is that it is completely developmentally inappropriate for a 5 year old to learn that way.

 

My state has a free online preschool program.

It is very popular.

[maize]

32 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I'm not in any way condoning her parent's behavior or trying to minimize her lack of provided education.  My point is that she was functionally literate enough and had enough skills and access books to self study. She also somehow found a way to take the SAT at 17 and get out.

High IQ

Literate family--even if they primarily read scripture, that is more reading than the average family does.

Work ethic.

Yep, it's more of a foundation than a lot of kids get.

I heard her say in an interview that a brother and his wife homeschool and are doing it well.

I saw an article recently that estimates average TV watching among adults in the US as 6 hours per day. Someone who spends any time reading is likely ahead of the bell curve.

[Clemsondana]

In a move that should make your hearts happy, today I saw a post in our local group asking if it was possible to do school without a computer, just one-on-one.  ?  I suggested that she check rainbowresource to get ideas and message me if she had more questions.  

As to whether homeschooling is falling apart or whether moms are pushing too much on kids who are too young, I wonder if we're seeing the same sort of bifurcation that I tend to see with grades in my classes.  When I started college, one prof said that she used to get a bell curve, but these days she gets an inverted curve - lots of As and Bs, lots of Ds and Fs, very few Cs.  That was 20 years ago, but in 5 years of CC teaching and 6 years of co-op teaching, that's what I tend to see, too. 

4-5 years ago, our co-op leaders were shifting to accommodate the 'new breed' of homeschool moms who wanted the option of a more rigorous, cohesive plan instead of just fun electives, and they settled on what I think is a great mix of fun stuff and more serious classes for middle school (elementary is still fun stuff).  Last year, they found themselves dealing with a different 'new breed', with parents who didn't come to the required work hours because they said that they had to work, or they shouldn't have to volunteer, since teachers are paid (teachers are paid, but it is still a co-op and requires a lot of work from the families - set up, clean up, hall monitors, nursery workers, helpers in elementary classes, etc).  With a couple of students, they talked to the mom about how, while they understood that there were different philosophies, they couldn't support truancy, which is what was happening if no work was done (espeically if they reported that they had taken a class with us in which they did nothing - our classes are known in the local community as being classes that require work).  Anyway, it seems like people may be having different experiences because we're losing the 'middle' and winding up with more people either being extremely rigorous or else complete slackers.  Unless you teach or run a group that involves both, you probably find your people and don't really see the rest.  

[unsinkable]

I don't think it is unreasonable at all for people to expect "free" homeschooling materials or expect that school districts would provide such materials for "free."

Everyone who lives in a district contributes monetarily to the district, one way or another. And if you have kids in the district, they are entitled to an education. 

If the district can't provide it in the brick and mortar paradigm, then I think parents deserve other options, paid for without additional monies from the parents.

Also, for all the parents who people think are not doing enough, there is another group of parents people think are doing too much.

It is like George Carlin's theory...everyone driving slower than him was a moron and everyone driving faster was an idiot.

[Dmmetler]

The inverted curve applies here, too. And there is kind of a whiplash that happens about 6th-9th grade, where the parents of the "any day at home is a good day" suddenly realize that maybe their kid should be doing more, and put them in tutorials/academic co-ops.  Which means middle school level homeschool classes locally are really, really hard to teach-because you have the academic kids who have parents who are reaching the level where they feel their child needs something beyond what they can offer, and the "have never really done "school" in any formal sense" kids. And the two sets of parents have very different motivations.

 

[Wheres Toto]

I see some of the type of posts originally mentioned.  I see more people just asking "what's the best curriculum to use" and people start throwing out a bunch of suggestions.  Nobody seems to think to ask what the person is looking for, or how old the kids are, or how the kids seem to learn, or anything that might make it easier to suggest something.  And I can't imagine how that poor person feels being bombarded with just a bunch of names.  They could get better results (at least with explanations) from Google.  

I also belong to a national group that actually has "academic homeschoolers" it it's name, yet a lot of people seem to be looking for unschooling options or whatever they can get done quickly and easily.  I don't get it.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, unsinkable said:

I don't think it is unreasonable at all for people to expect "free" homeschooling materials or expect that school districts would provide such materials for "free."

Everyone who lives in a district contributes monetarily to the district, one way or another. And if you have kids in the district, they are entitled to an education. 

If the district can't provide it in the brick and mortar paradigm, then I think parents deserve other options, paid for without additional monies from the parents.

Also, for all the parents who people think are not doing enough, there is another group of parents people think are doing too much.

It is like George Carlin's theory...everyone driving slower than him was a moron and everyone driving faster was an idiot.

Philosophically, I agree with you, but this isn’t what is legally available here. I mean, I think it should be legal here to select a la carte from the public school offerings, because the public school is an entitlement service any parent should be able to use as much or as little as they wish, just as the public libraries or public parks are. But that isn’t a right protected by law here, so Junior cannot go to high school just for French and Chemistry, while homeschooling the balance. 

[maize]

2 minutes ago, Quill said:

Philosophically, I agree with you, but this isn’t what is legally available here. I mean, I think it should be legal here to select a la carte from the public school offerings, because the public school is an entitlement service any parent should be able to use as much or as little as they wish, just as the public libraries or public parks are. But that isn’t a right protected by law here, so Junior cannot go to high school just for French and Chemistry, while homeschooling the balance. 

We are fortunate to have the option of à la carte enrollment in my state.

I hope it spreads to all states.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, dmmetler said:

The inverted curve applies here, too. And there is kind of a whiplash that happens about 6th-9th grade, where the parents of the "any day at home is a good day" suddenly realize that maybe their kid should be doing more, and put them in tutorials/academic co-ops.  Which means middle school level homeschool classes locally are really, really hard to teach-because you have the academic kids who have parents who are reaching the level where they feel their child needs something beyond what they can offer, and the "have never really done "school" in any formal sense" kids. And the two sets of parents have very different motivations.

 

I agree with this observation. 

When I was on the board at my co-op, there was always some tension between the parents who wanted rigor and those who wanted fluff.  Some parent-teachers were all about free exploration while others favored classes with imposed structure; i.e. Parent A wanted a lego class in which a pile of legos was dumped out and the kids left to decide what to do with them, while Parent B wanted a lego class where all the kids had to design a bridge. I think the majority of younger moms in my co-op now do want some rigor. Parents who don’t want that tend to join a different co-op. 

[Targhee]

1 hour ago, unsinkable said:

I don't think it is unreasonable at all for people to expect "free" homeschooling materials or expect that school districts would provide such materials for "free."

Everyone who lives in a district contributes monetarily to the district, one way or another. And if you have kids in the district, they are entitled to an education. 

If the district can't provide it in the brick and mortar paradigm, then I think parents deserve other options, paid for without additional monies from the parents.

Also, for all the parents who people think are not doing enough, there is another group of parents people think are doing too much.

It is like George Carlin's theory...everyone driving slower than him was a moron and everyone driving faster was an idiot.

I think most states offer this but it comes with strings attached and isn’t necessary “independent” (ie parents have to do some work).

I don’t think it is reasonable to expect a district to pay for your independent homeschooling, unless they are just giving you the materials they would have otherwise used at the school and you teach at home. That a school district, which can barely afford funding for existing students, functions on marginal costs for additional students plays a large part in this.  Per pupil funding isn’t all going to curricula - it goes to buildings, buses (and gas), insurance, salaries, free/reduced lunch subsidies, equipment (from gym balls to Smartboards), etc. And they get a discount on bulk orders of curriculum. It may only cost $7 for an additional 4th grade math student’s books/supplies when you buy in volume of 100s across a district.  However, your individuality chosen math curriculum for your one student who is homeschooling may cost $50-$200 for the year.  And if you are receiving funds from the public  budget you should, like all other organizations receiving public funds, should be accountable for use of those funds (oversight, assessment, etc).  

We spent several years with a public umbrella which offered funds and even gave us some discretion on spending. We started when oldest was in K and loved it, but by 5th grade we had had enough. The program grew as the popular wave of homeschooling swelled, and people abused the funds and students failed to meet standards (ie they failed the accountability clause). How you could spend the funds narrowed, and reporting increased.  It is the very parents who fail to properly educate (“all online requires no parent interaction”) and has no skin in the game (“free”) which caused the once flexible and effective system to disappear.

As far as taxes paying for the public education your child isn’t getting as a homeschooler, well that’s your choice not to use the system. There are plenty of people with no kids in school who pay property tax.

[Targhee]

1 minute ago, Kinsa said:

 

For some bizarre, incomprehensible reason to me, we have groups in Texas who are actively working AGAINST this option.  I truly don't get it. 

We had those on WA - they excluded people who used part-time school services/classes or who used state umbrella schools from being called Homeschoolers by the state homeschool organization or participating in the homeschool scholarships they offered. As it was explained to me it was because they did not want the camel’s nose of state regulation in the homeschooling tent.

[Bluegoat]

3 hours ago, Targhee said:

We had those on WA - they excluded people who used part-time school services/classes or who used state umbrella schools from being called Homeschoolers by the state homeschool organization or participating in the homeschool scholarships they offered. As it was explained to me it was because they did not want the camel’s nose of state regulation in the homeschooling tent.

 

In some provinces here in Canada, homeschoolers can get funding or help from the province.  It can include a certain amount of plain old cash - around about $1000 in most cases I think, but also parents can sometimes access resources like texts or libraries, or even have a teacher help them put together a plan.

In my province though, when a lot of this was going on, the homeschooling groups decided not to pursue this kind of approach because they absolutely did not want more regulation.  And it's true that where money is offered, they do require more accountability.  I guess the problem is that I don't see a problem with that - yes, it could become invasive potentially, but so can a lot of things.  The point to me is to stay engaged so that is less likely to happen.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

In some provinces here in Canada, homeschoolers can get funding or help from the province.  It can include a certain amount of plain old cash - around about $1000 in most cases I think, but also parents can sometimes access resources like texts or libraries, or even have a teacher help them put together a plan.

In my province though, when a lot of this was going on, the homeschooling groups decided not to pursue this kind of approach because they absolutely did not want more regulation.  And it's true that where money is offered, they do require more accountability.  I guess the problem is that I don't see a problem with that - yes, it could become invasive potentially, but so can a lot of things.  The point to me is to stay engaged so that is less likely to happen.

I do think that is one pitfall, potentially, of accepting public funds for homeschooling. I am not a YEC, but that is one good example; I know some people fear that would be disallowed from teaching according to their Bible-based worldview. It would be like there was no longer a way to truly teach one’s own according to one’s views, which is why a bunch of us (me included) wanted to hs in the first place. 

[Bluegoat]

2 minutes ago, Quill said:

I do think that is one pitfall, potentially, of accepting public funds for homeschooling. I am not a YEC, but that is one good example; I know some people fear that would be disallowed from teaching according to their Bible-based worldview. It would be like there was no longer a way to truly teach one’s own according to one’s views, which is why a bunch of us (me included) wanted to hs in the first place. 

 

Yes, but I think it can be done well.  The think that is tricky is making sure any guidelines for hat needs to be taught are within pretty broad parameters.  The thing to keep an eye on is that the state needs to stay out of dictating the worldview being taught from, so that has to be a principle.  But that has to be a principle in any case even if no money is involved.

In at least one province, there are a few levels you can access funding, depending on how much information you want to provide.  I think the main thing there is a duty of care with public funds.

[Targhee]

22 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Our umbrella schools did it on a piece by piece basis - like, they aren’t paying for specifically religious materials in things like Calvert or Sonlight, but they would compensate the geography books, math, readers, etc, that weren’t explicitly religious.  So you could seek reimbursement for 80% of the package, essentially.  And there was no disallowing *teaching* with them and submitting grades, just no funding.

 

Worked well.

This is similar to the umbrella we used in WA, but after several years of abuse they changed to offering on-grade-level packages only, and only 3-4 curricular choices for each grade/subject.  And we had to start doing weekly reports with greater detail.  I am not against using state funds! I do think that there will always be a trade off though.  And for a while, at least in WA, the homeschool "boom" had lots of people using the state funds but that also meant lots of people abusing or misusing.  Isn't frustrating how the few stinkers spoil it for everyone? I liked the upthread comment about how movements have vanguards (though I don't claim to be one) but as the movement swells the vision of the vanguard is not caught be all the followers and the sheer numbers of less-oriented/driven followers overtake the direction.

[Targhee]

? (wishing we still had "bangs head" emoji).  I just saw a FB request re: morning baskets, which in my own mind is the most snuggly-time-together-sharing-engaging time you can do. The poster mentions that kids are 5 and younger and do not read yet and doesn't understand how this (a basket of books) will work with non readers.  Also includes:  "I am trying to make it as independent for them to do on there own my fantasy is to have a basket they can play with and learn from while I sit on the couch with a cup of tea and watch them play and practice our quiet time"  Hopefully it is just a misunderstanding of what most people do with the whole Morning Basket thing. I know it isn't for everyone, but this kind of blows my mind ?

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, Targhee said:

? (wishing we still had "bangs head" emoji).  I just saw a FB request re: morning baskets, which in my own mind is the most snuggly-time-together-sharing-engaging time you can do. The poster mentions that kids are 5 and younger and do not read yet and doesn't understand how this (a basket of books) will work with non readers.  Also includes:  "I am trying to make it as independent for them to do on there own my fantasy is to have a basket they can play with and learn from while I sit on the couch with a cup of tea and watch them play and practice our quiet time"  Hopefully it is just a misunderstanding of what most people do with the whole Morning Basket thing. I know it isn't for everyone, but this kind of blows my mind ?

 

So, basically, she just needs a box of toys.

[Mimm]

A box of independent toys and games for the kids to play with while you wake up with your tea (in my case coffee) doesn't seem like the worst thing in the world. Just don't call it a morning basket. That term is already taken and that's not what it means. ? How about a Quiet Time Basket? (I realize Quiet Time Basket mom isn't here reading this.) ?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Mimm said:

A box of independent toys and games for the kids to play with while you wake up with your tea (in my case coffee) doesn't seem like the worst thing in the world. Just don't call it a morning basket. That term is already taken and that's not what it means. ? How about a Quiet Time Basket? (I realize Quiet Time Basket mom isn't here reading this.) ?

Yeah - only one of my three kids would quietly look at books and play with little animal figures quietly for an hour or so in the morning. I did discover, though, with my last kid, that if I invested a half hour or so directly sitting with him playing trains, I would buy at least another half hour of peace while he continued to play with the trains. I used to call this, “filling his tank.” A little gas-up of direct attention was good for a coast down the hill. 

[Targhee]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Yeah - only one of my three kids would quietly look at books and play with little animal figures quietly for an hour or so in the morning. I did discover, though, with my last kid, that if I invested a half hour or so directly sitting with him playing trains, I would buy at least another half hour of peace while he continued to play with the trains. I used to call this, “filling his tank.” A little gas-up of direct attention was good for a coast down the hill. 

I think this applies to older kids in homecool too, even if it’s no longer a 1:1 time ratio. They need a “top off” or perhaps a “priming” to run independently too 

[unsinkable]

16 hours ago, Targhee said:

I think most states offer this but it comes with strings attached and isn’t necessary “independent” (ie parents have to do some work).

I don’t think it is reasonable to expect a district to pay for your independent homeschooling, unless they are just giving you the materials they would have otherwise used at the school and you teach at home. That a school district, which can barely afford funding for existing students, functions on marginal costs for additional students plays a large part in this.  Per pupil funding isn’t all going to curricula - it goes to buildings, buses (and gas), insurance, salaries, free/reduced lunch subsidies, equipment (from gym balls to Smartboards), etc. And they get a discount on bulk orders of curriculum. It may only cost $7 for an additional 4th grade math student’s books/supplies when you buy in volume of 100s across a district.  However, your individuality chosen math curriculum for your one student who is homeschooling may cost $50-$200 for the year.  And if you are receiving funds from the public  budget you should, like all other organizations receiving public funds, should be accountable for use of those funds (oversight, assessment, etc).  

We spent several years with a public umbrella which offered funds and even gave us some discretion on spending. We started when oldest was in K and loved it, but by 5th grade we had had enough. The program grew as the popular wave of homeschooling swelled, and people abused the funds and students failed to meet standards (ie they failed the accountability clause). How you could spend the funds narrowed, and reporting increased.  It is the very parents who fail to properly educate (“all online requires no parent interaction”) and has no skin in the game (“free”) which caused the once flexible and effective system to disappear.

As far as taxes paying for the public education your child isn’t getting as a homeschooler, well that’s your choice not to use the system. There are plenty of people with no kids in school who pay property tax.

this could have been written by the local teachers' union president. They are so afraid of sharing the pie and giving up one penny...

[KungFuPanda]

2 hours ago, Mimm said:

A box of independent toys and games for the kids to play with while you wake up with your tea (in my case coffee) doesn't seem like the worst thing in the world. Just don't call it a morning basket. That term is already taken and that's not what it means. ? How about a Quiet Time Basket? (I realize Quiet Time Basket mom isn't here reading this.) ?

I call that not starting school until I drink my tea and I’m ready. ?

[KungFuPanda]

2 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

this could have been written by the local teachers' union president. They are so afraid of sharing the pie and giving up one penny...

 

I agree with her. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect the state to pay for my child’s private education and allowing them to do so inevitably comes with paperwork I don’t want. As much as my budget would enjoy some relief, it’s not realistic for the government to keep a school running in case I need it AND pay for my home program. There aren’t a ton of homeschoolers who manage to homeschool all 13 years and there’s no predicting who will do it. 

[SamanthaCarter]

I wonder what would happen if you just showed up at the school district office and asked for a loan of the appropriate grade textbooks for the year. They might just surprise you and be perfectly okay with that. 

[unsinkable]

9 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

 

I agree with her. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect the state to pay for my child’s private education and allowing them to do so inevitably comes with paperwork I don’t want. As much as my budget would enjoy some relief, it’s not realistic for the government to keep a school running in case I need it AND pay for my home program. There aren’t a ton of homeschoolers who manage to homeschool all 13 years and there’s no predicting who will do it. 

Good, you can be a union rep.

It's all about the money, not the child and her education.

[wendyroo]

11 minutes ago, SamanthaCarter said:

I wonder what would happen if you just showed up at the school district office and asked for a loan of the appropriate grade textbooks for the year. They might just surprise you and be perfectly okay with that. 

Except there are less and less textbooks used at all.  Our local schools routinely throw away TONS of "old" textbooks...ie elementary math texts that were purchased in the dark ages of 2015.  More and more those textbooks are not replaced at all, but the students instead are taught online or via random worksheets or smart board presentations.  A huge textbook purge actually happened a couple months ago, and some of my homeschooling friends went dumpster diving and came away with all sorts of books...not books that I would want or use, but to each his own.

Wendy

[Scarlett]

My ds18’s charter is its own school district and not tied to the local district at all. They pay k12 for their curriculum.  For low income families they supply  a computer per family and some internet reimbursement . I think that is just for low income... I really can’t remember.....

The strings weren’t bad. They got worse as the years passed.  I was never sure if that was because he was getting into higher grades or because the red tape is just getting worse .  I do not know a single person in real life who has their kid in the K-12 charter. They are all using the epic charter because it is  easier work, less teacher involvement and more flexibility overall and they get a learning friend with it 

[Targhee]

42 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

this could have been written by the local teachers' union president. They are so afraid of sharing the pie and giving up one penny...

I’m definitely not a member of the teacher’s union, but I think anyone who is concerned about budgeting resources for homeschooling (or a host of other factors that go along with educating your children)  could probably muster a little empathy for those trying to figure out how to educate 30 kids in a classroom or hundreds, of not thousands, of kids in a district.  

[Sneezyone]

40 minutes ago, SamanthaCarter said:

I wonder what would happen if you just showed up at the school district office and asked for a loan of the appropriate grade textbooks for the year. They might just surprise you and be perfectly okay with that. 

 

This is totally acceptable in most places we've lived. They just check them out to you.

[Targhee]

31 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

Good, you can be a union rep.

It's all about the money, not the child and her education.

You really think that thousands of teachers across the nation go into education for the money ?

[unsinkable]

2 minutes ago, Targhee said:

You really think that thousands of teachers across the nation go into education for the money ?

Maybe read what I actually wrote...

[maize]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

 

I agree with her. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect the state to pay for my child’s private education and allowing them to do so inevitably comes with paperwork I don’t want. As much as my budget would enjoy some relief, it’s not realistic for the government to keep a school running in case I need it AND pay for my home program. There aren’t a ton of homeschoolers who manage to homeschool all 13 years and there’s no predicting who will do it. 

 

We have public schools because the state has an interest in the education of citizens.

In the education of all children.

I think it is reasonable to provide for some flexibility in education--the standard public school model can never serve all students well. I had an interesting discussion a couple of years ago with a state school board candidate who was canvasing my neighborhood. He had spent many years as a high school principle and, in discussing educational options, he estimated that a typical school was a good fit for about 25% of students--students that could really thrive there. It was a decent enough fit for another 50%, and a really lousy fit for the remaining 25%.

This is where other options are needed--brick and mortar charter schools, magnet schools, virtual charters, part time enrollment, early college, technical schools, private schools, apprenticeships, and homeschool can all help meet this need. As the state has an interest in seeing that all children receive an education providing funding for some or all of these additional routes is entirely reasonable. The funds help the child access education.

For families who can afford to fund high quality home or private education, I agree that having the option to do so without unnecessary government oversight or strings is great. Many, many families however live on very tight budgets and some educational funding can be well worth dealing with extra oversight and reporting of it means the children receive a better education.

I actually feel like my current state is doing a decent job of navigating these options. I would like to see a few changes--increased educational funding overall (we are near the bottom in per pupil spending) with higher teacher salaries the primary beneficiary; possibly slightly increased homeschool regulation (right now there are no requirements or oversight at all) to discourage educational neglect though I haven't been able to think of a really effective way to do that that doesn't just unnecessarily burden diligent parents.

We have a lot of educational options and flexibility and I value that immensely.

Edited August 3, 2018 by maize

[Targhee]

15 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

Maybe read what I actually wrote...

I did! It isn’t all about the money. I’m not going to get into politics of teachers unions, but I can guarantee that most educators (even union members!) care about educating children! But they also have to eat, go to the doctors, and be able to have somewhere to live so money is a factor but not THE factor.

If you want free materials from the district with Little to no strings attached I think going and asking to check out resources your student would have had in school is reasonable. I also think participating in a public education charter/cover/umbrella which provides resources free of cost is fine too - as long as you are accountable for them.  What I don’t think it reasonable is expecting to remove funds from public education to privately (in this case simple meaning “no strings attached”) educate your child at home. I don’t get funds from the public coffers to pay for my private driveway, or personal security, or personal library... You pay the taxes where you live for the public good and they are no longer under your personal management (unless you are talking about your responsibility as a citizen for civic participation). 

[unsinkable]

1 minute ago, Targhee said:

I did! It isn’t all about the money. I’m not going to get into politics of teachers unions, but I can guarantee that most educators (even union members!) care about educating children! But they also have to eat, go to the doctors, and be able to have somewhere to live so money is a factor but not THE factor.

If you want free materials from the district with Little to no strings attached I think going and asking to check out resources your student would have had in school is reasonable. I also think participating in a public education charter/cover/umbrella which provides resources free of cost is fine too - as long as you are accountable for them.  What I don’t think it reasonable is expecting to remove funds from public education to privately (in this case simple meaning “no strings attached”) educate your child at home. I don’t get funds from the public coffers to pay for my private driveway, or personal security, or personal library... You pay the taxes where you live for the public good and they are no longer under your personal management (unless you are talking about your responsibility as a citizen for civic participation). 

Yeah, this is going no where..

I never mentioned no strings attached. Maybe you are confusing me with another poster. 

and I specifically mentioned union president and union reps, not teachers in gensral.

[Targhee]

4 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

Yeah, this is going no where..

I never mentioned no strings attached. Maybe you are confusing me with another poster. 

and I specifically mentioned union president and union reps, not teachers in gensral.

When I quoted you there was no distinction on accountable.  I quoted you specifically to bring up the point of accountability - not to say you were wrong but to say it would be unreasonable to assume the state should supply things free without oversight. You responded to my post, in which I said most states offer free materials with strings attach and no strings attached is unreasonable, with suggesting I sounded like I was from a teachers union (and someone who agreed with me as sounding like a union rep, which organization was about money and they were unwilling to share a penny, and BTW these people are or were at one point teachers). I took this to mean you disagreeded with the assertion the district/state shouldn’t have to give Homeschoolers funds if there is no oversight.

I am glad we agree that any funds from the state (and *most* states have some kind of option of receiving funds for homeschooling if you go through their accountability requirements) require accountability.

[73349]

22 minutes ago, Targhee said:

I am glad we agree that any funds from the state (and *most* states have some kind of option of receiving funds for homeschooling if you go through their accountability requirements) require accountability.

It seems to be about 50-50, and only that much if you count things attached to virtual school enrollment (e.g., free laptop), if links like this are to be believed. Most states seem to want homeschoolers to pay their own way. I think we should be able to get copies of any textbooks in use in the district where we live, enroll in extracurriculars after a semester waiting period [so parents don't withdraw and not-school failing high schoolers], and use the state test as our required standardized test if we choose.

Re: the OP, I saw a lot of this on Facebook this spring. IDK if people took the hint when the answer was usually "Check out books like TWTM from the library" or if I left the group where it was happening most.

[katilac]

On 7/31/2018 at 1:57 PM, GoodGrief1 said:

Certainly in middle school/high school I had nothing to do with her education, apart from researching and obtaining the resources.

2

 

No discussion of history and literature? No debating of scientific ideas or ethics? Or did she get this via outsourced classes? 

On 8/1/2018 at 8:33 AM, mommyoffive said:

 Maybe some people are doing that?  Doing school everyday, but for only a few hours each day?    Or maybe they are not counting everything that would count at school?  

1

 

Definitely, some people say "school" when they really mean "lessons and seatwork". 

We did very small amounts of seatwork in the younger grades. All the way through, we did shorter days but more of them. I always try to be very explicit when people ask questions. Yes, we were finished with seatwork by lunch in nth grade, but afternoons would include shared reading, hands-on projects, and so on. No, my kids didn't do much work in the evenings even in high school, but they were fast workers and we started a full month earlier than most families in our area, and were wrapping up a few subjects in the month after most had finished for the year. If the had wanted a shorter school year, they would have had longer days. 

[HS Mom in NC]

I see this a lot now that I'm in NC.  I wonder if it's from parents who know they didn't get a solid education themselves and are insecure about providing it directly to their children.  They clearly don't their kids in the same kind of ps they had.  I hear a lot of complaining about bad schools here.

I responded to a request for recommendations about online history/social studies with, "No, there are better options.  I like Story of the World Vols. 1-4 and the activity guides that go with them because......."

[Bluegoat]

5 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

 

I agree with her. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect the state to pay for my child’s private education and allowing them to do so inevitably comes with paperwork I don’t want. As much as my budget would enjoy some relief, it’s not realistic for the government to keep a school running in case I need it AND pay for my home program. There aren’t a ton of homeschoolers who manage to homeschool all 13 years and there’s no predicting who will do it. 

 

But this isn't really different than the way they keep track of which areas have more or fewer students, how any they can expect to need special programs, and other demographic trends.  Homeschooled kids are just another demographic which will have certain trends as a group.