"What can I use for homeschooling that is free and all online and requires no parent interaction and reads outloud becaus the child can't read"

[poppy]

Rant ahead. 

I am seeing this question every single day from parents of 6 and 7  year olds, and I'm fully convinced that at least half of those kids would be way happier in a classroom.

I know it's inside and too many hours. But really.  A child should have SOMEONE in their world who is directly interested in helping them learn. 

Now if you don't think formal learning is important at a young age-- I can respect that. But to force a child to do online classes, while aiming for LOW PRICE rather than quality, stinks. To me.

I have a learning disabled kid and I get that school is not a great place for everyone.  If y Take one hour out of your day to educate your child!!

I'm willing to hear other views.  For the most part, i just feel REALLY sorry for kids when I see these notes over and over.

[Lady Florida.]

If that is really what they're asking I'd tell them to just send the child to school. 

[NormaElle]

Grinds my gears just like "free, engaging online program that will catch my kid up 3 grade levels while I work full-time."

[MarieCurie]

I see this all the time as well, and it drives me nuts too. Yes, there are times when it comes from someone who needs to pull their kid due to bullying and they really don't have any money to spend on curriculum. But most of the time it's from someone who's also posting about the vacation they just took and all the sports their kid is in.

[NorthwestMom]

I always wonder if they would tolerate that level of interaction and commitment from any other teacher that works with their child. 

[LucyStoner]

I have adult friends who were homeschooled in a very hands-off way.  All report having serious deficits in their education.  One was especially upset about how his mom expected them to learn math from workbooks on their own and then when they started community college was irate that none of them placed into college-level math classes.  Well, none of them had had any instruction or support in math past the 4 basic operations.  ?

Even older kids, who can be independent quite a bit, still require parent effort AND many older children will need at least some instruction.  

IME people asking these sorts of questions have foolish or ill-conceived motivations for homeschooling in the first place.  

Just put the kid in school if you can't be bothered to provide an educationally enriched home.  

[Bambam]

I see these sorts of posts too. Or ones that want 100% online computer program/access that will educate their children while they go off to work (and we aren't talking teen kids either). 

I live in a extremely low regulation state, and the amount of questions that pop up on groups starting in March is amazing. People are removing their kids right and left. Failed the state test and not going to be allowed to advance to the next grade? Fine, pull child out and "homeschool" them during the rest of the year (i.e. set child in front of a computer, mom and dad go off to work), and then re-enroll them next fall in the next grade. Senior not going to graduate? Fine, pull them in April and graduate them from 'homeschool'. Maybe you do something, maybe you don't. 

I find it sad. 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, poppy said:

Rant ahead. 

I am seeing this question every single day from parents of 6 and 7  year olds, and I'm fully convinced that at least half of those kids would be way happier in a classroom.

I know it's inside and too many hours. But really.  A child should have SOMEONE in their world who is directly interested in helping them learn. 

Now if you don't think formal learning is important at a young age-- I can respect that. But to force a child to do online classes, while aiming for LOW PRICE rather than quality, stinks. To me.

I have a learning disabled kid and I get that school is not a great place for everyone.  If y Take one hour out of your day to educate your child!!

I'm willing to hear other views.  For the most part, i just feel REALLY sorry for kids when I see these notes over and over.

 

Is anyone seriously hearing different people say things like that “every single day” or “all the time?”

Where are you going and what kind of people are you meeting? 

I’m not trying to be rude, but it’s hard for me to imagine that anyone hears random people ask on a daily basis (or even frequently) about what they can use for homeschooling “that is free and all online and requires no parent interaction and reads out loud because the child can’t read.” 

I have occasionally met a parent who doesn’t want to put in much effort to homeschool their child, but I would think it would be rare to meet people every day who have the kind of extreme attitude described in the OP. For that matter, how many of us even meet that many brand new homeschoolers on a daily basis, even counting online forums?

 

 

[dirty ethel rackham]

6 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

I have adult friends who were homeschooled in a very hands-off way.  All report having serious deficits in their education.  One was especially upset about how his mom expected them to learn math from workbooks on their own and then when they started community college was irate that none of them placed into college-level math classes.  Well, none of them had had any instruction or support in math past the 4 basic operations.  ?

Even older kids, who can be independent quite a bit, still require parent effort AND many older children will need at least some instruction.  

IME people asking these sorts of questions have foolish or ill-conceived motivations for homeschooling in the first place.  

Just put the kid in school if you can't be bothered to provide an educationally enriched home.  

Yes to the bolded.  Even my NMS kid needed guidance, direction, and TEACHING.  I had to outsource what i couldn't effectively teach.

[marbel]

Do you respond to those questions, or ignore them? 

To me, If I felt I had to answer the question, it's easy:  "I know of no such program. If this is truly what you require, you should probably reconsider homeschooling and send your child to school instead." 

And then move on. People are going to do what they want to do, and they can probably find someone who will say "try this, it worked great for us!"  

 

[KungFuPanda]

I’m noticing more of these questions over the last two years. I don’t think I’m getting old and crotchety. I really don’t remember hearing these questions even ten years ago. There is now a class of “homeschoolers” that wants their young elementary children to be taught by the computer while they work full time. It’s nuts. These people are just starting out. They can’t be tired yet!

[Sneezyone]

I see them almost daily in various online groups, mostly from brand new homeschoolers. Honestly, it’s a little frightening. I choose not to respond.

[KungFuPanda]

41 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Is anyone seriously hearing different people say things like that “every single day” or “all the time?”

Where are you going and what kind of people are you meeting? 

I’m not trying to be rude, but it’s hard for me to imagine that anyone hears random people ask on a daily basis (or even frequently) about what they can use for homeschooling “that is free and all online and requires no parent interaction and reads out loud because the child can’t read.” 

I have occasionally met a parent who doesn’t want to put in much effort to homeschool their child, but I would think it would be rare to meet people every day who have the kind of extreme attitude described in the OP. For that matter, how many of us even meet that many brand new homeschoolers on a daily basis, even counting online forums?

 

 

I do not blame you for thinking it’s an exaggeration, but I’m seeing this on local and state FB homeschooling groups a few times a week now. I’m left stammering each time. I have to stop reading them. I have ONE more year of homeschooling and then I’ll be out before this new crop of clowns cause tougher regulations for everyone. And I live in a fairly educated area with a good school system. I don’t see how people have the nerve to even ask! It’s even scarier to think this isn’t just a MD problem. 

[Lady Florida.]

46 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Is anyone seriously hearing different people say things like that “every single day” or “all the time?”

Where are you going and what kind of people are you meeting? 

I’m not trying to be rude, but it’s hard for me to imagine that anyone hears random people ask on a daily basis (or even frequently) about what they can use for homeschooling “that is free and all online and requires no parent interaction and reads out loud because the child can’t read.” 

I have occasionally met a parent who doesn’t want to put in much effort to homeschool their child, but I would think it would be rare to meet people every day who have the kind of extreme attitude described in the OP. For that matter, how many of us even meet that many brand new homeschoolers on a daily basis, even counting online forums?

 

 

I've been out of the loop for a while since ds graduated homeschool a few years ago, but I agree. Maybe things have changed and newer homeschoolers are saying these kinds of things? I just never ran into it.

[Sk8ermaiden]

42 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Is anyone seriously hearing different people say things like that “every single day” or “all the time?”

Where are you going and what kind of people are you meeting? 

I’m not trying to be rude, but it’s hard for me to imagine that anyone hears random people ask on a daily basis (or even frequently) about what they can use for homeschooling “that is free and all online and requires no parent interaction and reads out loud because the child can’t read.” 

I have occasionally met a parent who doesn’t want to put in much effort to homeschool their child, but I would think it would be rare to meet people every day who have the kind of extreme attitude described in the OP. For that matter, how many of us even meet that many brand new homeschoolers on a daily basis, even counting online forums?

 

Not the OP, but I hear something like this at a minimum, once a month on local homeschool support groups. Often from parents just pulling their kids from school, but not always. Because they are online support groups, I "meet" brand new homeschoolers on them every day.

I do subscribe strongly to the idea that to give your child a quality education, you're going to have to invest your time or your money (or both.)  You would think that would be obvious...I just scroll past those questions. I'm not going to give them the answers they want.

[KungFuPanda]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I see them almost daily in various online groups, mostly from brand new homeschoolers. Honestly, it’s a little frightening. I choose not to respond.

I responded once. The lady wanted to know how to choose curriculum. I told her to figure out her philosophy first. She asked how to do that. (Now I’m lulled into a false sense of security.) I told her to go online or to the library and read about the different styles until she figured out what suited her family the best. She responded with. “That sounds like a lot of work. Can’t you just tell me your philosphy?” I’m eternally grateful this convsersation wasn’t in person. I would not be able to control my face! I responded with “It’s less work than homeschooling” and that’s when I vowed to limp my way out of this world. 

[KungFuPanda]

4 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

I've been out of the loop for a while since ds graduated homeschool a few years ago, but I agree. Maybe things have changed and newer homeschoolers are saying these kinds of things? I just never ran into it.

It’s brand new!  Less than two years. It’s terrifying. 

[itsheresomewhere]

Cat-  join some of the local groups on Facebook.  This is asked quite a bit. 

This pops up almost every week.  Drives me nuts.  I like the ones who also not only ask this but also talk about how hard it is to homeschool their one year old.  You are not homeschooling a one year old, it is called parenting.   Then we have those who not only want everything in the title but also for it to babysit the kid while they work full time outside of the house.  Or the is there a drop off program from 9-4 daily that will education my child.  

A few of you know me in real life and know how I have gotten yelled at by parents for putting an age level in stuff I run.  That is because we had babies ( crawling infants) show up for bowling ( not with older siblings).  

[Bambam]

26 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

Yes, but first prepare yourself for the "evil public school" and "bad home school is better than any instutional school" reasoning. 

Sigh. It's really sad but in the last year no less than 25% of the local home schooling group chat consists of requests like these. 

I am a big advocate of home education, but geez folks, you have to realize a good education requires a significant investment of time and resources. 

(I do realize there are outlier situations. Really I do. They are surely not numerous.)

Yes! We have a leader mom here who says the bolded ALL the time. Anything you do at home is much better than public school. It seriously annoys me. And all her kids think anyone who has been or is going to a public school is basically an abused and ignorant child. It is sad. And it doesn't matter what you say, she knows she is right. I'll be interested to see what the future holds for her family. 

[marbel]

6 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

Cat-  join some of the local groups on Facebook.  This is asked quite a bit. 

This pops up almost every week.  Drives me nuts.  I like the ones who also not only ask this but also talk about how hard it is to homeschool their one year old.  You are not homeschooling a one year old, it is called parenting.   Then we have those who not only want everything in the title but also for it to babysit the kid while they work full time outside of the house.  Or the is there a drop off program from 9-4 daily that will education my child.  

A few of you know me in real life and know how I have gotten yelled at by parents for putting an age level in stuff I run.  That is because we had babies ( crawling infants) show up for bowling ( not with older siblings).  

 

Well, there is that, right?  Public School.  

I believe all you who are saying you hear/see this a lot. I've never seen it.  

I wonder if it has to do with more families needing to have two parents working, but the public schools are not serving them. They may not be so much ignorant/stupid, as desperate for a solution.  Just speculating.

[itsheresomewhere]

Just now, marbel said:

 

Well, there is that, right?  Public School.  

I believe all you who are saying you hear/see this a lot. I've never seen it.  

I wonder if it has to do with more families needing to have two parents working, but the public schools are not serving them. They may not be so much ignorant/stupid, as desperate for a solution.  Just speculating.

Well public school is evil. Lol.  I answered with public school or private school and was yelled at for no supporting a fellow homeschooler.  It was comical.  Along with me saying homeschooling is not for everyone.  Quick ways to get asked to leave a group. Lol

[ktgrok]

 I agree totally. I mean, unless both parents are forced to work and have a babysitter who refuses to tutor and the public school is a literal war zone where death or injury or mental health is at stake, yeah. 

I've even seen people with children with speech and dyslexia issues who need help learning the sounds of the phonograms but the parents are hard of hearing and can't hear them but they refuse to use outside help so what can they do. Um...no idea. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

 

Is anyone seriously hearing different people say things like that “every single day” or “all the time?”

Where are you going and what kind of people are you meeting? 

I’m not trying to be rude, but it’s hard for me to imagine that anyone hears random people ask on a daily basis (or even frequently) about what they can use for homeschooling “that is free and all online and requires no parent interaction and reads out loud because the child can’t read.” 

I have occasionally met a parent who doesn’t want to put in much effort to homeschool their child, but I would think it would be rare to meet people every day who have the kind of extreme attitude described in the OP. For that matter, how many of us even meet that many brand new homeschoolers on a daily basis, even counting online forums?

 

 

Not the OP, but to be fair, I do see questions very similar to this with shocking frequency on a FB group I’m barely even involved with. IOW, it is very rare that I even comment on there or answer any questions but, because it is a group I belong to, each time I go on FB, I see notifications from that group. And a truly staggering amount of the time, the question might as well be, “How can I homeschool my young child yet directly interact with him/her barely at all?” And a large number of FT working parents ask how they can do it, which, I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it’s rarely ideal. 

And don’t even get me started on posts I see that are full of the most incoherent grammar and errors. I know we all get lazier on a computer in informal contexts but still. I see things that make me feel extremely sorry for some kids if that is the person who is going to be “teaching” them. 

[Heatherwith4]

  I am another person who sees these questions pop up on our local FB homeschooling pages.  I don’t answer, because I’m not interested in getting into arguments with people, and they won’t like my answers.  I have noticed these questions more in the last couple of years.  

 I have an acquaintance who is the guidance counselor at the public school.  She says they have issues with parents who pull their kids on a whim and then can’t hack homeschooling.  Some of the kids will come back and then get pulled again when the parents get upset about something.  These are probably the same parents who are asking for a free online program they don’t have to supervise.  It makes all of us look bad, imo. 

[MarieCurie]

I wonder if some this comes from the commercials for K12. I see commercials that say online school free in most states. So parents start to think "hey I can just put my kid in front of the computer for 7 hours a day and they'll learn everything they need."

[Amira]

I’ve seen this from plenty of SAHMs too.  I had to leave a FB group because all I wanted to do was tell people their expectations were unrealistic, unless they sent their children to public school.  And I agree this is something that has happened in the last three to five years.  It has honestly made me very concerned for the future of homeschooling in the US.

ETA that I’m not concerned about increased regulations (I personally think the no reg states should have some, if only to avoid problems like this), but that too many homeschooling parents won’t understand that their primary responsibility as a homeschooler is to made sure their child gets a good education.  They might homeschool for other reasons, but they are actively choosing to take full responsibility for their child’s education and that is not a small thing at all.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, marbel said:

 

Well, there is that, right?  Public School.  

I believe all you who are saying you hear/see this a lot. I've never seen it.  

I wonder if it has to do with more families needing to have two parents working, but the public schools are not serving them. They may not be so much ignorant/stupid, as desperate for a solution.  Just speculating.

I’m probably going to get in trouble with someone for saying this, but IMO, it is an after effect that logically followed Radical Unschooling. First, there was Colefax-style Unschooling. This was far from work-free for the parents, because the parent was called upon to structure the environment as a facillitator so kids would learn algebra while building pens for their dairy goats. Then, the Dodd-style RU came along, and with it, any sense that a guiding parent was in any way useful or necessary for teaching/learning. Marry that wih the blossoming of digital resources that can do everything but change the baby’s diaper and there you have it - a clueless bunch of young, new hopeful homeschoolers who don’t think they are necessary or maybe not even ideal. 

The “pioneers” of homeschooling were nervous that they might do it wrong and so they turned out largely highly knowledgeable kids who were really nice to be around. But IMO we have arrived at complacency now because so many young people intending to homeschool have become totally fearless that they can “homeschool.” Just sign up for some digital program and boom! Kid learns everything he needs to know from the droning computer screen. 

[....]

41 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I responded once. The lady wanted to know how to choose curriculum. I told her to figure out her philosophy first. She asked how to do that. (Now I’m lulled into a false sense of security.) I told her to go online or to the library and read about the different styles until she figured out what suited her family the best. She responded with. “That sounds like a lot of work. Can’t you just tell me your philosphy?” I’m eternally grateful this convsersation wasn’t in person. I would not be able to control my face! I responded with “It’s less work than homeschooling” and that’s when I vowed to limp my way out of this world. 

 

Yep.  We must've met the same lady.  I've been talking about this for a couple of years, now.  It's disturbing.  Some of the new homeschoolers are not taking the time to research anything.  It's so bad, it's like they don't even know where to start and never even googled the word homeschooling.  There are SO many websites, online curriculum stores, blogs, books about homeschooling, homeschooling webinars and heck, youtube channels about homeschooling.  There is really no excuse.  It has to be laziness (sorry to sound so harsh).

And the free...on the computer...completely hands-off for the parents while the parents went to work all day....we got to watch that in action a couple of years ago with one of my daughter's friends.  It was a disaster.  This kid basically wasted an entire school year surfing the internet.

It upsets me, too, because like you said, I'm worried it's going to cause a push for tighter homeschooling regulations.  My oldest is 16, but my youngest is 3, so I have a long time before I'm done with homeschooling.

No, you all are not making it up.  I've noticed this trend, too.  

[FairProspects]

40 minutes ago, marbel said:

 

Well, there is that, right?  Public School.  

I believe all you who are saying you hear/see this a lot. I've never seen it.  

I wonder if it has to do with more families needing to have two parents working, but the public schools are not serving them. They may not be so much ignorant/stupid, as desperate for a solution.  Just speculating.

 

I  see it all the time. And I think your observation is spot on. Public schools are hopelessly overcrowded and are not serving students well at all locally. They just can't even come close to keeping up with all the needs. I do think it is desperation. It's still frustrating though. You can't get something for nothing in life. It either takes time or money and sometimes both. A good education is no different.

[Xahm]

I think some of this may come from the attitude of the homeschoolers they meet on the playground. One mom mentions how much she'd love to homeschool, but it seems like so much work, and the other mom or moms (generally only with young kids) jump in, trying to be reassuring, saying things like "it's no trouble at all" "kids learn so much through play" and the like. Then, they do a bit of research and all the advertising bots start hitting them with ads for k12, Accellus, Calvert, Bob Jones, etc that seem to promise education in a box and from a screen. Yes, they should use their heads and realize nothing worthwhile is ever both free and easy, but it isn't just that us young moms are lazy and clueless.

[SamanthaCarter]

I see similar questions about once a week on FB groups. They are usually people who rashly pulled thier kids out and I’m assuming they’ll be assimilated back into the public schools in a year. I don’t respond. 

[SamanthaCarter]

45 minutes ago, MarieCurie said:

I wonder if some this comes from the commercials for K12. I see commercials that say online school free in most states. So parents start to think "hey I can just put my kid in front of the computer for 7 hours a day and they'll learn everything they need."

This and EasyPeasy are the usual answers to the question on my FB groups. Seems like there are quite a few in my city using K12? I haven’t met any irl. It’s weird. 

[SKL]

Possibly these people want to be told [given permission] not to homeschool.

[prairiewindmomma]

I had to leave FB homeschooling groups because these kinds of posts were all too frequent.   Horrifying doesn't even begin to encompass all of the feelings I have on the matter.  I worry to some degree that "good" homeschoolers are silo-ing themselves to some degree as a number of us have also all left co-ops and community enrichment groups due to some of the same elements (give me everything for free, with no effort required on my part).  Thank goodness the WTM boards are here! I can't imagine homeschooling without them! 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

This does show up, nearly daily, in FB groups in low reg states like Texas and Indiana.

Local schoolteachers have told me that a pp is right, they will be back in school eventually - 1 to 3 years later, having learned nothing. ? 

The legit reasons are all true - inadequate public schools, unaddressed bullying, two (at least) working poor incomes and no time, parents who lack the education and responsibility levels to adequately homeschool a child. I am hyper aware of all of that, because of where I live. But it should NOT be true that staying home and doing nothing, unsupervised, is even an option. My township has been declared a "cyclical poverty area." That's with the vast majority going to school, over the last few generations. Now what is it going to be like, if the same people do not send their children to school, failing to realize that at least that's where they, themselves, had learned to READ?? 

And you know what, whether it's a high poverty, low education area, or a fundamentalist religious enclave, "not-schooling" is incredibly contagious. Quill talked about how the pioneers pushed each other to succeed, and another pp mentioned how overwhelmed newbies get when they google homeschooling (but there are those ladies at the park who explained how the kids will just teach themselves, so...).

[Clemsondana]

I didn't initially come to homeschooling with a philosophy - it was mostly practical, due to moving and having an advanced kid starting K, but I did have the idea that I needed to find some sort of math, handwriting, stage-appropriate language arts, and some sort of framework for history/science/geography.  I did some research, picked some stuff, and spent from 1-2 hrs/day doing it with my kid.  We're about to start year 8 and I've made some changes based on what worked/what didn't, but that's still my basic approach.  I also specifically wanted some sort of group learning sometimes, so I went looking and found a co-op full of fun stuff for youngers and real classes for people who want to outsource some classes for olders.  I didn't know what I was doing, but it was clear that some things needed to be done, and as the homeschooling mom, it was up to me to do them, however imperfectly.  

One of the moms who does tours for families considering our co-op was talking about the number of families that she's had recently that come in and ask where they go to get their curriculum, or who tells them what to do.  They don't mean 'What stores/websites should I check?' - they think that somebody will issue them a curriculum.  They don't seem to understand that homeschooling means that it's all on you to make sure that the kids learn a reasonable set of things.  They assume that somebody at the co-op will make sure that their kids get what they need.  The co-op offers classes that you can choose from, a la carte, but even if you take a class at every time slot, you have to make sure that you've chosen classes that do what you want.  Elementary classes are specifically enrichment, and we have to explain that if you come to grade 3-5 math, they'll play games with math facts or work math puzzles, but that 50 minutes is not a complete math curriculum.  They want to know how to make this work when both parents work full time, and think that the required work hours (16/semester) are unfair to working families.  They want recommendations for self-teaching materials for elementary.  One of my kids actually was pretty self-teaching from an early eage, but you can't count on it (the other one definitely isn't!).  Tour guide mom says that she's gently suggested that some families consider a public, private, or hybrid (3 day/week) school that might be a better fit for what they're expecting - she's willing to help the ones who are interested but clueless, but some seem shocked that there isn't somebody to manage it for them.  This seems to be a new thing - our group has been around for more than 15 years, some families have been there from the beginning, and nobody has seen this before.  

[Farrar]

I never know quite what to make of requests like these, but I'm with others - I'm seeing them more and more. I think there can be good reasons to do something simple and straightforward and get it done online. Example - a parent of a serious gymnast on another board I was on asked about homeschooling and was unsure if it would work, but said his kid was pretty devoted, was a good student, etc. and wanted to streamline her gym and home life and was asking for it. She was in middle school, I think. Like, okay, here's an example of when a simple online program might work.

But when I see it from these parents who specifically want something super enriching and fun it's like... what are you thinking?

[lavender's green]

35 minutes ago, xahm said:

I think some of this may come from the attitude of the homeschoolers they meet on the playground. One mom mentions how much she'd love to homeschool, but it seems like so much work, and the other mom or moms (generally only with young kids) jump in, trying to be reassuring, saying things like "it's no trouble at all" "kids learn so much through play" and the like. Then, they do a bit of research and all the advertising bots start hitting them with ads for k12, Accellus, Calvert, Bob Jones, etc that seem to promise education in a box and from a screen. Yes, they should use their heads and realize nothing worthwhile is ever both free and easy, but it isn't just that us young moms are lazy and clueless.

This. It's all too easy for the homeschool moms at the playground (or church social, or whatever) to gush about how easy-peasy it is. I hear it all the time. In their defense, many started homeschooling because the public schools just weren't serving their needs (especially diagnosable issues), and they want to kindly reassure others who are walking the same path. They're assuming that the inquirers have done their research already, though.

I appreciated a pre-school teacher of ours, former homeschool mom to an autistic son, like me, who said "I'll pray for you. You're going to need it." ? She said it in the nicest way possible. She's now a sample lady at the grocery store and we always stop and chat when we see each other. She was the one dose of homeschool reality I got. Everyone else was gushing about how easy-peasy it is.

[Dmmetler]

2 hours ago, Seasider too said:

 

Yes, but first prepare yourself for the "evil public school" and "bad home school is better than any institutional school" reasoning. 

Sigh. It's really sad but in the last year no less than 25% of the local home schooling group chat consists of requests like these. 

I am a big advocate of home education, but geez folks, you have to realize a good education requires a significant investment of time and resources. 

(I do realize there are outlier situations. Really I do. They are surely not numerous.)

And the same folks also want free or super-cheap outside classes and activities that they can drop their kid off for. They don’t seem to realize that the reason a co-op can be super cheap or free to the parent is because parents are doing the volunteer labor, and someone is buying the supplies-and usually a sponsoring organization is donating space.  If you just drop your kid off, and don’t put in the time or the money, someone else has to pick up the slack. It’s one thing when it is the parent who just had a new baby or who’s husband just lost his job who needs help right now, but last year they were contributing actively, and they probably will again a few years down the road. It’s another when someone’s first post on a local forum is complaining about how much homeschool classes cost, and how much volunteer time co-ops want, and that they can’t drop their child off and leave them all day...It’s so tempting to say “sure, I know somewhere”-and give them the phone number for the local elementary school. 

 

 

[Mimm]

I see this type of question asked all the time and it does drive me nuts. I get it. The kid is doing badly in school, the school isn't willing or able to do what it takes to help the child, the parent pulls them out and wants to homeschool, but feels overwhelmed. What the parent needs is someone to sit them down and tell them they must commit a lot of time at probably some amount of money to this endeavor. You can trade a certain amount of money for time, (spend more time to save money or spend more money to save time) but you can never go zero on time.

[bethben]

I’ve responded to mom’s on Facebook posts who have rashly pulled their kids out of school for various good reasons, but have no plan in place, no way to pay for any plan and some are even working full time.  I tell them maybe they need to work with their public school better or put them in a different one (not too hard around here) because it doesn’t really sound like they want to homeschool.  They just want their kid out of that particular situation.  Then a bunch of other moms of young kids get in there and say how if you “just read” to them, it will be great.  Or some other such non-school thing.  Then I try to explain that plan may work great for young kids, but 4th,5th,6th graders really need more than just good read alouds and an actual parent who can teach them.  The response usually is all encouraging...”you can totally do this!”  “You’ll never regret homeschooling!!”  Stuff like that.  Annoying.

[EmseB]

The people I see asking for this know PS isn't working or think it isn't going to work for their kid but have no frame of reference for homeschooling or how much commitment it might take and might not have the means to only work part time or have a parent sah full time. I think they're between a rock and a hard place, a lot of times, and suggesting public school is maybe not even going to solve their problem.

But I think it all becomes clear pretty quickly. Even trying to do k12 or easy peasy requires some work to get a kid going. K12 is nuts for little kids and parents, IMO, with the amount of seat work. Heck, I buy a box curriculum with "workbooks" and fully planned lessons and it's still pretty involved on my end, to say the least.

 

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

And the same folks also want free or super-cheap outside classes and activities that they can drop their kid off for. They don’t seem to realize that the reason a co-op can be super cheap or free to the parent is because parents are doing the volunteer labor, and someone is buying the supplies-and usually a sponsoring organization is donating space.  If you just drop your kid off, and don’t put in the time or the money, someone else has to pick up the slack. It’s one thing when it is the parent who just had a new baby or who’s husband just lost his job who needs help right now, but last year they were contributing actively, and they probably will again a few years down the road. It’s another when someone’s first post on a local forum is complaining about how much homeschool classes cost, and how much volunteer time co-ops want, and that they can’t drop their child off and leave them all day...It’s so tempting to say “sure, I know somewhere”-and give them the phone number for the local elementary school. 

 

 

Exactly. 

When I was on the board at our co-op, one parent with two kids complained that there should be a sibling discount. I was like, we have families here with 5, 6, 7 kids...who is going to support the ability to have a sibling discount?! Should the less than ten families with only one child or only one homeschooler somehow subsidize the 70 families with multiple kids? 

I know that drop-off co-ops are gaining popularity...but then, that isn’t a CO-OP, people...

On a related note, there are sometimes moms who are constantly scarce whenever they are not actively doing their job, but then they are sad that they haven’t built friendships and don’t really know anyone. Well, how do you think you get to know people? You gotta be around...

[happybeachbum]

4 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

I have adult friends who were homeschooled in a very hands-off way.  All report having serious deficits in their education.  One was especially upset about how his mom expected them to learn math from workbooks on their own and then when they started community college was irate that none of them placed into college-level math classes.  Well, none of them had had any instruction or support in math past the 4 basic operations.  ?

Even older kids, who can be independent quite a bit, still require parent effort AND many older children will need at least some instruction.  

IME people asking these sorts of questions have foolish or ill-conceived motivations for homeschooling in the first place.  

Just put the kid in school if you can't be bothered to provide an educationally enriched home.  

I think a lot of this has to do with taking for granted what we know and how.  People forget someone taught them.  

[happybeachbum]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

I’m probably going to get in trouble with someone for saying this, but IMO, it is an after effect that logically followed Radical Unschooling. First, there was Colefax-style Unschooling. This was far from work-free for the parents, because the parent was called upon to structure the environment as a facillitator so kids would learn algebra while building pens for their dairy goats. Then, the Dodd-style RU came along, and with it, any sense that a guiding parent was in any way useful or necessary for teaching/learning. Marry that wih the blossoming of digital resources that can do everything but change the baby’s diaper and there you have it - a clueless bunch of young, new hopeful homeschoolers who don’t think they are necessary or maybe not even ideal. 

The “pioneers” of homeschooling were nervous that they might do it wrong and so they turned out largely highly knowledgeable kids who were really nice to be around. But IMO we have arrived at complacency now because so many young people intending to homeschool have become totally fearless that they can “homeschool.” Just sign up for some digital program and boom! Kid learns everything he needs to know from the droning computer screen. 

Nah, I don't think that's what it is. The pioneers were Holt, the Moores, Beechick etc. They were more concerned with the push toward curriculum being pushed on parents that cost an arm and a leg.

[Farrar]

I feel like sometimes we tout the free and cheapness of homeschooling a little too hard. I mean, there are amazing, full curricula out there that are free. There are some great responsive learning technologies out there that are making stuff more accessible to all people. But it's still true that you mostly get what you pay for. And you will probably need to spend either time or money in order to find something that really works well.

It feels like a lot of these parents want some 21st century version of the Robinson Curriculum - remember that nonsense, where you were supposed to buy a box of old, vintage books and throw them at the kid and them leave them alone until they miraculously got into Harvard?

[Chelli]

I agree with the OP and others that I've seen this disturbing trend gain momentum in homeschooling groups and circles. In fact just a couple of weeks ago on my Instagram (it's tied  to my blog so lots of homeschool stuff on there) I took a picture of my first grader working on making tens using manipulatives with his Math in Focus workbook. I had a mom ask me what program it was, and I told her. Then she asked if it was teacher intensive. I told her that its first grade math, so, yes, I teach the lesson and then stay with him as he completes his worksheets to make sure he doesn't have trouble, which takes us about 20 minutes. She then asked me if I knew any math curriculums for first grade that the child could do on their own. I told her that in early elementary kids really needed some direct instruction and oversight to make sure they understand. She told me she couldn't do that and a homeschool friend of hers had told her about Teaching Textbooks, so she was trying to find something like that to teach her kid until they could start TT. At that point I didn't respond, because I didn't know what to say other than, maybe you shouldn't homeschool.

[dirty ethel rackham]

In the 20 plus years we homeschooled, I saw the homeschoolers of the 90s and early 2000s who were earnest and wanted to learn what to do.  They embraced homeschooling as a lifestyle and wanted to be with their kids.  We had park days where we built community and experienced homeschoolers mentored newer ones.  We had evening parent meetings to give moms a night out to discuss homeschooling issues without the constant interruptions.  I noticed a change after the Time magazine article in 2001.  Many people whose children were struggling in school either due to learning issues or bullying all of the sudden started to see homeschooling as an option.  But, having come from a world where other people (the school) did things for them, they came to us and asked what we could do for them.  In our evening parents meeting, they dominated the conversations with their questions, so much so that there was never time for the planned discussions and the regulars got burned out and stopped coming.  So, we scheduled newcomers' teas to provide an informal "homeschooling 101" devoted totally to these families.  We had dedicated parents with a strong desire to help.  But these newcomers still dominated our parents meetings, so that fell apart.  The old timers had their tribe and were tired of these "what can you do for me?" parents.  And park days started to fall apart as well.  

The internet replaced meeting face to face.  People who started groups or clubs became much more selective of who they invited to join them because of the "age range ignorers" and the "drop off" mentality.  In these years, I worked with several moms to partner with our local library to put on "homeschooling 101" panel discussions to help people who wanted to investigate this option.  I have to say that in the past few years, I have been seeing this attitude mentioned by the OP.  They can't be bothered to attend one of our meetings, but want me to tell them what to do ... for free.  

I, too, have seen an uptick in the "everything for free and no work on my part" parents on online forums.  I have dropped some truth bombs on these people (in a gracious way, highlighting the very real needs of kids), but that didn't win me too many friends.  Now, I recommend my friend who does homeschool consulting and regularly does intro classes.  I have been backing out of many of these groups because I've sprained my eyes from rolling them too much.

[kitten18]

4 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I do not blame you for thinking it’s an exaggeration, but I’m seeing this on local and state FB homeschooling groups a few times a week now. I’m left stammering each time. I have to stop reading them. I have ONE more year of homeschooling and then I’ll be out before this new crop of clowns cause tougher regulations for everyone. And I live in a fairly educated area with a good school system. I don’t see how people have the nerve to even ask! It’s even scarier to think this isn’t just a MD problem. 

I understand the frustration but what this increase says to me is that people are frustrated and desperate to get their kids out of public school. 

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, happybeachbum said:

Nah, I don't think that's what it is. The pioneers were Holt, the Moores, Beechick etc. They were more concerned with the push toward curriculum being pushed on parents that cost an arm and a leg.

By “pioneers,” I did not necessarily mean the famous ones. I just meant the regular-people homeschoolers who were doing it before the internet and when they weren’t even certain it was legal. The old-school homeschoolers, as we have called them on here. They were more likely to worry that they would do a good job of it and they normally assumed it was going to take a substantial amount of involvement from the parent(s). They had more to prove and were likely thought nuts by everyone from their MIL to their pediatrician.