Want to send ds6 to school but can't

[Seasider]

Here's what I think about - should the other children in the household be deprived of their share of mom's time by one child who sucks all the energy out of her? Yes, it is important to meet the needs of each, but one parent can only be spread so far. For a short season, perhaps the other kids will be fine and can catch up later. But if this is going to continue, with the oldest child requiring every bit of OP's attention and disrupting the learning opportunities of siblings, well, that's a problem. He's not the only child in the equation.

[Mimm]

Some years ago, when I was starting to homeschool, advice on homeschooling board swould center around how to make homeschooling work for this child. What changed that now the majority of the advice is to send him to school?

 

What kind of message about learning and education will this child receive? That school / learning is a punishment? That he is separated from his family, against his will, so that he could do what? "Learn to read"?

 

This child, mature in many areas, seems to be emotionally immature. This is the child who needs to be with his mother and his siblings for proper emotional development. And yet he's the one to be send away, to be around equally emotionally immature peers for most of his day? Learning to read, but at what cost to his emotional and social development? And, I'd argue, academic development as well, as there are no guarantees that he will be supported academically either.

 

Has this world gone entirely mad???

 

She SAID she wanted to send him to school. People are offering support on that. If she'd said, "I'm not sure I can homeschool this child and I really wish I could make it work," I guarantee that would be the direction of most of the advice. Personally I think it's awesome that on a homeschooling board, people don't recommend homeschooling in all situations for all children. This is a reasonable attitude. The comments I read on this thread were supportive of continuing to homeschool the other children.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

:confused1:

 

I think it is totally fine for me to believe (and express my belief, on a homeschooling board, no less) that school is not "the handiest potential solution."

 

Not that it matters, but I have one of those highly spirited children. It is not like I don't know about having a "challenging" child at home.

 

True, we can all say and think what we want. I should have said that I believe your judgment to be misguided, unnecessary, and unkind, in a case where the parent has said what she wants to do and is looking for support.

[Desert Strawberry]

I feel like the ramping up of expectations has been really hard for him. He was so, so, so hard at age 4, but 5 was better and I thought we were past the difficult stage. I think, in reality, 5 was an easier age because he was still preschool age, but totally able to handle it. He understood why he had to do most of the things I made him do. While he used to fight the car seat, by 5 he understood that it kept him safe. He understood why he needed to brush his teeth, etc. I don't think he yet sees why he should learn to read, or add, or write.

I held my defiant child back a year (and sent him to school for a short time) for just this reason. I didn't want to fight with him over school in addition to all the fights we really do need to have. 

 

Now at 7, he's ready to start moving faster.

 

It is ok to slow down if he needs that.

[EMS83]

Yes it isn't really about school. He has been hard from day one. I just thought school would give us a break from each other and he is now old enough to go. And I actually think he will like it once he tries it.

 

I think one reason Dh doesn't want to send him is because it isn't about school and he thinks I need to learn to deal with him (not exactly the wording I am looking for). He thinks ds will still not behave at home even if I send him to school. I actually agree with that, but sending him to school would let the rest of the family function for those hours.

 

It is really hard to talk about ds like this because he is just a young child and a very sweet one. I don't like making it sound like he is an uncontrollable monster.

 

I have talked to the pediatrician but it wasn't very helpful. I may make another appointment. Ds really is very normal most of the time. It is just when things don't go his way or he has to do something he doesn't want to do that he becomes very difficult. What my other kids might whine about or try to argue their way out of, he flat out refuses. He is never violent or destructive. He just won't do it. If he doesn't want to get in the car, he won't. I just don't know what the diagnosis for that would be. When I filled out one questionnaire, it asked a lot about violence. He honestly has never phyiscally hurt anyone.

 

That questionnaire and being referred to as an informant are why I dropped then entire line of inquiry.  It made me uncomfortable. 

[PeterPan]

These quotes from the same person are from a similar philosophy, so I snipped from both.

Some years ago, when I was starting to homeschool, advice on homeschooling board swould center around how to make homeschooling work for this child. What changed that now the majority of the advice is to send him to school?

 

What kind of message about learning and education will this child receive?

...

This child, mature in many areas, seems to be emotionally immature. 

 

 

 

Maybe now is the time to re-examine those assumptions. What are the advantages of early academics in general (evidence based) and for your particular child? Is your child thriving on early academics and on your belief that he should be learning to read now?

 

The most academically successful countries in the word have play-based programs until children are 7 to 7.5 years old. Early reading in particular is not correlated with higher literary later in life.

 

One of the biggest advantages of homeschooling is flexibility...
 

Carrots has where s/he is coming from, and that's fine.  I think it's also useful to insert some information that balances that out.  For instance, the CTOPP is now available normed for as young as 4.  The IDA (international dyslexia association), iirc, is now saying they want kids with dyslexia identified BEFORE 1st grade.  Not 3rd grade, not 8/9/10.  Before 1st grade.  And that's because you do NOT have to be reading to diagnose dyslexia.  They can run the CTOPP and diagnose it based on the phonological processing scores, bam, done.

 

So the whole "but in Finland" thing is a red herring.  Early is better with dyslexia identification.

 

Thing two, when people say their kid outgrew xyz, blah blah, we can actually quantify those delays with testing.  For instance, we can run the CELF or CASL and actual determine the degree the language is behind.  My ds has both a phonological processing problem (traditional dyslexia) AND language problems (low CELF scores).  We spent a year remediating language, pausing Barton entirely, and he began reading.  Yes, he would have eventually (like age 10 or 12) gotten those equivalent language scores WITHOUT the therapy materials and then have begun reading.  And I would have been saying SEE, YOU JUST WAIT TILL KIDDO IS 10 AND STOP BEING SO UNREALISTIC AND IT ALL OUTGROWS AND FIXES ITSELF!!  And think about how pissed that mom should be that no one told her that she could get language testing, do 15 minutes a day of intervention, and in 6 months bridge the language gap, improve those scores, and get to the same place.  By age 7, not 10/12.  

 

Just because someone says something turned out well for them doesn't mean you'll be happy with the results.  It doesn't mean it turned out for the reason they SAY it turned out.  Data is where it's at.  Evals, testing.  Even "immature" what kind of thing is that to say?  Like, hello, give the kid theory of mind testing, run adaptive living and other inventories on him, and see whether he is objectively behind his peers and in what.  

 

My ds has had all that testing, and I have data to guide my decisions.  I choose to intervene because it's not necessary to wait wishfully.  I choose to intervene because intervention CAN be done in a respectful, even CHILD LED way, believe it or not.  

 

I think it's easy to have low expectations for our kids and want the easy way out.  When I first started bringing professionals into my home to help with ds, I was SO caught up in being sensitive to what I thought he could/could not do (special snowflake) that I had no perspective on where he COULD be with some support.  It's not good enough to say we know our kids, because in really challenging situations we're caught in such a whirlwind of emotions we can't even help ourselves or make it slow down, let alone see the road we could be walking down AND figure out how to get us turned onto it.  That takes outside help.

 

And fwiw, this is a board with lots of perspectives.  If someone likes Cindy Gaddis (all the way to the childled, just wait and let it happen with your kid with disabilities, warm fuzzies perspective), there are people.  And there are people who are like done with it, send 'em to school.  And there are weirdos like me in the middle bringing a team in and calling it homeschooling, lol.  There is no board morality to protect here.  We're grown-ups with a lot of ideas floating around.  People have to try things and think through the consequences.

[38carrots]

True, we can all say and think what we want. I should have said that I believe your judgment to be misguided, unnecessary, and unkind, in a case where the parent has said what she wants to do and is looking for support.

 

If the OP only wanted support, and not opinion, she should've marked it as JAWM.

 

I believe OP is misguided (She *feels* he should be learning to read at 6???) and I really don't want to sugarcoat  everything.

 

This is a discussion board, so I'm discussing by offering a different opinion.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

OP, I agree with others that you might try getting a private evaluation.  There could be things going on that need to be addressed.  For instance, my cousin, who is just weeks different in age from me, was not an easy kid to raise but he was the sweetest thing.  He was very "defiant" though.  He refused to do things on a regular basis.  Turned out he had serious issues processing certain sounds but he passed normal hearing evaluations.  His hearing processing issues (what would probably now be called CAPD) were making him very frustrated and angry but no one understood why he was so frustrated and angry.  When they finally got a very thorough hearing evaluation and found out the issues they were able to help him and his behavior improved dramatically. (I'm not saying this is your child's issue, I'm just saying there could be a REASON why he is so much harder to parent.)

 

With my own kids, DD had undiagnosed dyslexia and  several other things that created some stress but she was super sweet and very bright.  Parenting her in those early years was challenging, however.  She argued a lot and was incredibly stubborn.  She would dig in her heals and could NOT be budged.  There were days I felt so worn out from the arguments and the constant stress I just wanted to curl up and cry.  She had no currency once she set her mind that she wouldn't do something (like potty training). School was challenging for her, too, but at least while she was at school I could recharge my batteries, get my other work done, and have more patience and more time for her and be more loving when she came home from school.  She would actually listen to her teachers and was rarely EVER in trouble at school (7 years in school and she got written up maybe 5 times?). School was still a struggle, though, because she had undiagnosed learning issues.  I simply did not understand where her struggles were coming from and neither did her teachers.  Getting solid answers helped so much with how to parent her and assist her academically.  And when we brought her home to homeschool I was in a much better place to help her than I had been when she was younger and so was she.

 

Along with that, if you think your child would do better with lots of structure and outside instruction then school may very well be a better fit.  For various reasons school is not an option for either of my kids right now but DS did so much better in a school environment than he does at home.  He is a lovely human being and I adore him and we are very close but he was much happier in school with someone else as his instructor plus he did much better with the structure of school and the interaction with other kids.  I have never been able to recreate what he gained from being in school.  He misses school.  DD?  She thrives now as a homeschooler, but DS never has.  Every child is different and every child has different needs at different times in their lives.  

 

I hope you can find a path that will work.  Hugs and good luck.

[luuknam]

Btw, I'd start keeping a notebook of ABCs - Antecedent, Behavior, Consequences. Whichever route you decide to go, knowing what things exactly cause him to refuse to do stuff, what exactly he does in refusing, and what you do in response to his behavior, will be helpful to a therapist/behaviorist, etc.

[OneStepAtATime]

Btw, I'd start keeping a notebook of ABCs - Antecedent, Behavior, Consequences. Whichever route you decide to go, knowing what things exactly cause him to refuse to do stuff, what exactly he does in refusing, and what you do in response to his behavior, will be helpful to a therapist/behaviorist, etc.

I agree.

 

Is the resistance mainly with academic type things?  Or is he really struggling with transitions?  Could he have severe anxiety building up with certain things?  And what is the response?  Is it something he can predict?

 

I would start trying to record things.  I realize that is one more thing on your plate but if you get a notebook and start trying to jot things down it might help you see a pattern.  Certainly if you seek outside evaluations that would help the assessor too.

[ktgrok]

I feel like the ramping up of expectations has been really hard for him. He was so, so, so hard at age 4, but 5 was better and I thought we were past the difficult stage. I think, in reality, 5 was an easier age because he was still preschool age, but totally able to handle it. He understood why he had to do most of the things I made him do. While he used to fight the car seat, by 5 he understood that it kept him safe. He understood why he needed to brush his teeth, etc. I don't think he yet sees why he should learn to read, or add, or write.

 

So don't make him. If you KNOW he's a late bloomer and does things on a later time table then go with that. Give him another year. Make this his kindergarten year and do it the old school way...letter of the week with lots of crafts, art, play, etc. There is a reason boys did better when K was still like that. 

[ktgrok]

So don't make him. If you KNOW he's a late bloomer and does things on a later time table then go with that. Give him another year. Make this his kindergarten year and do it the old school way...letter of the week with lots of crafts, art, play, etc. There is a reason boys did better when K was still like that. 

 

quoting myself, lol. 

 

Adding that if he was maturity wise at a preschool level last year, than this year you have to keep that in mind. You don't get to skip and move faster than he is ready. Slower developing is fine, if you can accommodate it, and you probably can better at home than at school, if that is the case. 

[Tanaqui]

Not that it matters, but I have one of those highly spirited children. It is not like I don't know about having a "challenging" child at home.

 

You have "one of those children", sure. But you don't have her child. You don't have her family. You don't know her situation.

 

This is a discussion board, so I'm discussing by offering a different opinion.

 

Other people managed to offer the opinion "you can just delay academics for a year with this one child" without being really judgmental about it. And look! Nobody criticized them for it.

 

It's not what you said. It's very much how you said it. Calling people crazy for thinking a six year old should be ready to learn to read? Saying - or at least strongly implying - that if the OP cared about her child's emotional development she wouldn't dream of sending him to school?

 

Maybe it's your social and emotional development that needs work, because that's just mean. Even if you think it's true, it's not nice to say like that.

[Susan in TX]

I think one reason Dh doesn't want to send him is because it isn't about school and he thinks I need to learn to deal with him (not exactly the wording I am looking for). He thinks ds will still not behave at home even if I send him to school.

 

To me this seems like your DH thinks that the problem is simply your lack of parenting skills. How much time does he spend parenting your son? I think it is really easy for the parent who isn't the one around the kid 24/7 to think that a child's difficult behavior is simply a discipline issue. In addition to getting an evaluation for your son, you may want to look into some family/marriage counseling. Parenting a difficult child is hard. You don't need the additional burden of having a spouse that thinks you are part of the problem. I have BTDT. My son didn't get a diagnosis until he was 14. Turns out all his difficult behavior was caused by being bi-polar and on the autism spectrum.

 

Susan in TX

[LucyStoner]

It sounds like this is a child who potentially needs a high level of structure, predictable scheduling, scaffolding and support. Some times the best place for that is home. Other times the best place for that is a school.

 

I have two sons who need that high level of structure etc. It's not an easy thing to take on. We have an entire wall of visual organization and consistent reminders for each child. It's definitely possible to provide that at home but it may not be the ideal for the OP or for her son or other children. My brother has a child who is very similar to my younger son. She needs to go to school. It's what works for her. It's what works for my SAHD brother. That is a-ok.

[ElizabethB]

Some out of the box ideas to help him see he needs to be able to read and add:

 

Write everyone notes for a few days that they get a priviledge, cookie, something if they read the note themselves to you for a few days. No cookie if you don't read the note...

 

Some sort of similar thing with change and getting small items from a "store" that requires math to buy and get change. No math skills, no ability to buy...

 

It sounds like you also need to look into other underlying problems that may be causing the behavior.

 

There are game based phonics and math programs that are acceptable for a 6 year old. If he likes games, you can start a new thread and people can suggest ideas.

[Katy]

I think that a lot of boys just aren't ready for formal schooling at 6.  I think a lot of them need big rocks to jump off of, and streams to play in, and dangerous monkey bars and merry go rounds to play on, and their brains are not ready to sit still.  If people would calm down and give them a couple of years to mature, they would, and they would never get diagnosed with anything.  And I'm in a family where we all have ADHD.

 

Having said that, if the problem is not just that he won't sit still and learn for more than 10 minutes a day, but that he is actively being disruptive of others, or it's not a matter of readiness so much as it is defiance against you...  well in that case I'd consider school too.

 

 

Edited because auto-correct failed.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Katy

[eternalsummer]

Some out of the box ideas to help him see he needs to be able to read and add:

 

Write everyone notes for a few days that they get a priviledge, cookie, something if they read the note themselves to you for a few days. No cookie if you don't read the note...

 

Some sort of similar thing with change and getting small items from a "store" that requires math to buy and get change. No math skills, no ability to buy...

 

It sounds like you also need to look into other underlying problems that may be causing the behavior.

 

There are game based phonics and math programs that are acceptable for a 6 year old. If he likes games, you can start a new thread and people can suggest ideas.

 

 

??????

 

Seriously?  You would punish not being able to read at 6?

[scoutingmom]

 

 

When you say you couldn't get him to school, I personally believe you. Until someone has btdt with a dc like that, they don't get that you LITERALLY MEAN you wouldn't be able to get him to school.

 

 

 

 

Save

Save

Yeah, I have btdt too with a step-daughter, except she was 12 when I married her dad. Her attitude was that we couldn't make her do anything - and she was right. Truant officers exist here, and for a while were often at our house, and they saw that it was impossible for us... they saw us try everything. We brainstormed with people. Family coucilling, councilling for her. I wish I had a happy ending to report, but she is struggling as an adult with about a grade 7 education.

 

The OP's son might do well in school and it not be a problem. Or there could be struggles over homework and attendance and behaviour issues etc.

 

I don't have much to recommend except getting help somehow... probably a diagnosis to start. I do think I would likely unschool while proceeding with that, unless the school thing does work out.

 

I mainly commented to say that I do understand.

 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[displace]

A couple of additional thoughts for OP:

1) Though I actually agree with a more European view of delayed start of schooling, I will also add that if you have a bright child (insightful, smart, etc), difficulty in academics can be a red flag for learning or other disabilities. This is assuming you did some schooling already.

2) I also caution for you to somewhat consider public school's timeline if you think public school is an option in the near-ish future. Unschooling or different curriculum for a year may work, things may settle down, academics may be able to increase in a year, and you may homeschool forever. But, if not, and you start public school there may be quite a difficult transition.

3) Homeschooling may very well be a good possibility in the future if it isn't a great fit for now. Don't feel like it's all or nothing, and discuss it with DH as a possibility, to reevaluate every so often which placement is better for the family.

 

Echoing the thought of getting professional testing, but I'm quick to recommend that :)

[PeterPan]

Btw, I'd start keeping a notebook of ABCs - Antecedent, Behavior, Consequences. Whichever route you decide to go, knowing what things exactly cause him to refuse to do stuff, what exactly he does in refusing, and what you do in response to his behavior, will be helpful to a therapist/behaviorist, etc.

 

Amen. When I started doing ABC logging (thanks to someone else here on the boards!), it was HARD.  Things were happening so often and so fast, it was hard to keep up.  What I did was jot little notes, just key words, for a few hours, then I'd sit down and fill things in.  Rinse and repeat.  

 

Stop That Seemingly Senseless Behavior!: FBA-based Interventions for People with Autism (Topics in Autism)  This book was VERY helpful to me in learning how to ABC.  It is short, was available at my library on ILL, and it will get you up to speed very quickly.

 

I'm really concerned for you, because, having btdt, I know that "would refuse to go" means there's a lot more going on.  Even the SLD questions are so moot.  That's just one fraction of the iceberg of what is going on here.  And people don't say everything.  For us, in our family, that level of refusals and the behaviors and what was going into it took significant evals and months and months of in-home help to get calmed down.  And the whole wait thing leaves people waiting to get disabilities identified.  

 

The tests are good enough now to DISCRIMINATE normal development from a disability.  Do people understand there's a RANGE to the scores??  You can have scores and they'll go sure, you're still in normal range.  They KNOW there's a normal range, my lands.  But the signs of disability CAN be identified accurately.  Waiting only causes you to miss out on valuable windows of intervention.  It lets challenging behaviors get set in as habits.  

[mom2att]

Before you send him to school, consider the costs. And I don't mean monetary costs. My son was and is one of those kids. The year he was six is a blur because homeschooling him was so difficult. Sending him to school for a few hours of peace for the rest of the family certainly was tempting, but there would have been hell to pay once he got home. I knew then and I know now that school would not have been the best option for him, but most days he probably would have held it together enough to get through the school day, barely. But when he got home his stress from the day would have been unleashed on the rest of the family, and there would have been constant battles from the time school ended until bedtime. So for us, the cost was definitely not worth it.

 

The thing about homeschooling is you get to teach your child where he IS, not where he is "supposed" to be. The school won't make this accommodation and will likely put more pressure on him to read, and sit, and focus. If you think he needs this structure and pressure (and he may--for some kids seeing the rest of the class in conformity is a good incentive--only you know your kid), try it, especially if you think he will be fine once he gets there. But do consider his response after the school day is over and what that will make the rest of the day like for you family.

 

If you keep him at home, Fairfarmhand had some great advice upthread about adjusting your day to fit his needs, especially along the lines of devoting some time just for him, to fill his mommy cup. That was a big deal at my house with my challenging child.

 

And if you haven't yet read The Explosive Child by Ross W. Greene, I highly suggest it. I know you don't think of him as violent or explosive, but his refusal to do things could be just his way of exploding/dealing with frustration. My reading of this book when my son was 6 changed my parenting of him and understanding of his difficult behaviors.

[QueenCat]

That's not necessarily true. If you come in with a diagnosis and a doctor saying he or she does not advise full time school, they should immediately refer the child to the homebound team for review. It may not be approved, but they will look at it.

 

This is exactly what happened to me this year. I sent written notice that I had a child that I believed should be evaluated for an IEP. We had a meeting (not enrolled), I gave them the doctor's report, and we discussed how they could accommodate her anxiety if I enrolled her.The doctor had said she advised that my DD not attend school yet and they called me and said homebound full time or part time was an option I could consider. All of this was before my child was enrolled. We ultimately decided to send her to 1 class a day as a homeschooled student but homebound was an option from the beginning without them ever having met my DD and her never being enrolled before. 

 

I guess that must depend on school districts, despite it being based on federal law. Where I've lived, you'd they would've started with some support during the evaluation process but at the school. And in none of the states that I've lived would a student classified as homeschooled be allowed to attend any classes. Sounds like you live in a far more pro-active, pro-child area.

[Lecka]

I think (my personal opinion) that for a lot of kids like this, having good supports during the school day can dramatically improve the "holding it in together, falling apart at home" problem.

 

I completely agree this is a real thing.

 

I do think though, very often things can be done at school to lessen the stress that builds up.

 

This could be breaks, working in a smaller group, having a schedule, etc.

 

Yes maybe more on the IEP side.

 

But if kids are this stressed or anxious from school they may get these kinds of supports, and for a lot of kids can change this dynamic.

 

And then other kids the same things are tried and do not work out as hoped.

 

But there are things to try that can help. I think it is one thing to say you know this would happen without supports, but not enough to say it would happen with supports without trying (well, unless you just know!).

 

There is the issue of it being a hassle to deal with it (staying on top of things, meetings) and that is very real. It is not like it is stress free as a parent.

 

But for a child who really may have supports at school, I don't think it is fair to say "here is how bad it would be with no supports" and not mention "but it could be better with supports."

 

Bc supports do exist for this issue, based around decreasing stress over the day for kids who are very stressed by some things even if they do not have the behavior until they get home.

 

But yes sometimes there are drawbacks for various reasons, I am not saying it is perfect. I am just saying that there are things possible to try that do help sometimes.

[Paige]

I guess that must depend on school districts, despite it being based on federal law. Where I've lived, you'd they would've started with some support during the evaluation process but at the school. And in none of the states that I've lived would a student classified as homeschooled be allowed to attend any classes. Sounds like you live in a far more pro-active, pro-child area.

 

We've lived in several states and this is the first school system that I think I can actually work with! They have been great! I think the magic words that made them offer a homebound teacher to DD was when the doctor said he did not want her in school yet, at least not full time. I'm sure they wouldn't offer it based on just my preferences, but if the OP could get an eval and have the doctor say the same thing it could be an option. They can't go against a doctor's order can they?

 

I believe her when she says she can't get the child to school. If he has anxiety or some other issue that causes him to lose all sense of reason, then there's really no forcing. Punishments, threats, bribes,...nothing will sway the child to cooperate and I don't think it's right to try to get someone dressed and out the door kicking and screaming the whole way even if it were possible. Maybe a small 6yr old could be physically handled, but that's no way to live every day. If the child is bigger and stronger it may not be possible without someone getting hurt. 

 

A doctor's eval would be the first step. It's not a parenting issue, IMO. Once you know what you're dealing with, then you can find the best approach to helping the child. 

[lovinmyboys]

Wow, so much good advice. Thanks everyone for taking time to type that all out.

 

The thing with ds is that he is so mature in a lot of ways. He can go play in the woods with his little brother and follow all the rules and come back safely. He plays settlers of catan and other strategy game like that. He does a great job in conversations with adults (he talks on the phone to my parents better than my other kids). I can drop him off at baseball and he keeps track of his stuff and where he is in the lineup with no help. I think his coach would say he is the most mature kid on the team.

 

He really only acts like that for me. I think if he were comfortable with anyone else, he would act like that for them too. He had a huge fit last week because I told him we were all going to the eye doctor. I honestly didn't know if I would be able to get him to go. Once he was in his exam the nurse came back and told me he was just "so darn adorable." I really don't think it is because of my lack of parenting skills (my other 3 kids are all basically compliant). I really think he just feels safe to act like that for me. I don't think he will act like that at school at all (at least for the first several months). I do think he will be very difficult in the evenings since he will be using up all of his "goodness" at school.

 

I am ok with him not doing school right now except for two things. I am not sure that we will be homeschooling forever and I don't want him to get so far behind his public school peers. Also, our state law requires kids age 6-16 to be learning certain subjects. I guess I could count learning in different ways, but I do want to comply with the law. (We have a very low regulation state so no one really checks, but kids 6 and up are supposed to be getting an education).

 

I think he would do well in school because he does much better with structure. I can be more structured around here, but it is a hard thing for me. I have 4 kids and a house to run. Last week we had eye dr, the week before was dentist, then flu shots. We had to have a home repair this week. Things keep interrupting our structure.

 

I have been parenting him full time for 6 years now so I do have some tricks to get him to do things. It just takes so long and so much of my mental and emotional energy. I am tired of it. And I feel like my other 3 kids just get my leftovers and that isn't fair to them. In my ideal world, ds6 would want to go to school and I would just take him.

 

It isn't just academic stuff that he won't do. He hates running errands so he often won't get in the car. It is like he can only comply so many times in a day and then he is just done. Since I started academic expectations in September I think it just overloaded his ability to comply in general. So he kind of regressed to being oppositional about things he had quit being oppositional about.

 

Dh and I probably do need family counseling. He doesn't come right out and say it but I am sure he thinks that this child's behavior is my fault. Really I have been doing almost all of the child raising for various reasons. But this ds has been hard his whole life and I rarely have had a break from him. I have literally gone years when I was his only caregiver without even one evening off. So I can kind of see why Dh would think it is my fault. I will just say that dh's response to my asking for help hasn't been super supportive.

 

I think one reason ds is defiant is because he is anxious. For his birthday my mom took him rock climbing, which is right up his alley and something he really wanted to do. That morning he wouldn't get dressed. I couldn't believe it, but I think he was nervous about going. I think he also struggles with transitions. And sometimes I think he just doesn't want to do something and he has no currency that makes doing whatever worth it.

Edited October 12, 2016 by lovinmyboys

[fairfarmhand]

I do understand the "acts like this just for me" and "so mature in so many other areas." Yes, that was my dd.

 

Please at least read the explosice child book mentioned above.

It will give you concrete strategies to help manage his behavior. Because, even if he's ast school all day, he will need help with that. He obviously has some lagging skills and will need assistance in developing those.

[luuknam]

We've lived in several states and this is the first school system that I think I can actually work with! They have been great! I think the magic words that made them offer a homebound teacher to DD was when the doctor said he did not want her in school yet, at least not full time. I'm sure they wouldn't offer it based on just my preferences, but if the OP could get an eval and have the doctor say the same thing it could be an option. They can't go against a doctor's order can they?

 

Actually, they can. I've been on a 2E email list for about 6.5 years, and some of those people did have doctor's orders for this (homebound instruction) specifically (and/or other things), and the school district "took them under consideration" and then did the opposite anyway.

 

OP should probably begin by talking to parents of special needs kids in her school district (especially districted for her school) and ask them what the school has been like. Some schools have a SEPTA or whatever they call it (a PTA for special needs), most don't, but it's probably possible to find some local support group for special needs. Unfortunately, OP doesn't have a diagnosis, but she might want to try asking people in her local autism support group (picking autism because it's common enough she's likely to find a support group for that), just to see what the local school is like. If the local school is hell in dealing with autistic (or other special needs kids), sending her kid may not be very helpful at this point in time.

Edited October 12, 2016 by luuknam

[SproutMamaK]

Halfway through your update, I was thinking that it sounds like a very big issue with anxiety, and then I saw at the end that you'd already recognized this a bit. He's so good and responsible for other people because he's on guard at all times, trying to remember everything, trying to behave correctly, trying to be perfect. And then he gets to YOU. And you are his safe place to fall, his place to not have to be perfect and where he can just relax, and you get the brunt of all that tension that he carries around the rest of the time. He sounds like a good kid who is so terrified of failing that he can't even bring himself to try and panics at the thought of doing something he's not 100% sure he can do perfectly. How does he respond when he makes little mistakes or things go a little wrong?

As for family counselling... I think that would be a wise idea, and that is all that board rules will allow me to say about the way your DH is treating you.

[sassenach]

Your other kids are 8 and 10- do you really need an adult to be with them while you run ds to school?

[heartlikealion]

I feel so stuck. I wish I could send ds6 to school. He makes every day so difficult and won't do anything he is supposed to do. I actually think he would enjoy going to school. He likes doing academic things and he does much better with structure.

 

There are 2 problems though. First, I don't think I could make him go to school. I could if I had another adult here to take care of my other kids while I forced him to go. Dh won't take off work to be that other adult and I don't really have anyone else to ask.

 

Second, Dh says if one kid goes to school then all 3 school age kids have to. I am not really into all of them going to school this year for various reasons.

 

I would love to send ds6 and really have time to work with my other two. My ds8 is a little behind but I think he could catch up if I could work with him without ds6 around. Ds10 is interested in going to school next year in 6th grade, but doesn't want to start 5th in the middle of the year. He is not behind.

 

I just don't know what to do. Having an "explosive" child is just so difficult and I feel like no one understands. He is a sweet kid and never violent or destructive. He just will not do anything (and I mean anything) he doesn't want to do. He has been hard his whole life and I am just tired. I am sure it makes me a bad parent, but I just want a break from him. I want someone else to make him do the things he doesn't want to do. He is finally old enough for school and I would like him to go.

 

This is my life right now with ds8. Getting him to school is a huge drain. He won't do his homework in a timely manner and then it's hard to get him to bed on time. He doesn't want to get up in the morning because he says he's tired or cold. He wakes up complaining and making noises. The only time I got him up without much fuss was the night he went to sleep around 7:30pm (but it's hard to repeat that with dinner, homework, shower). We decided not to send him back to that school next year so I'm going to look into tutors/homeschool. He's so difficult to me and always has been. I don't know what to do, either. I'd pretty much have to win the lottery to justify moving closer to a better school district or my pick for private school.

 

I don't know what you can do, but I'd try to talk my dh into the option of school for one. Maybe if your dh lived in your shoes for a day he'd understand... has he ever done that? My dh understands better when he's off of work and around to see the behavior more.

[sassenach]

Wow, so much good advice. Thanks everyone for taking time to type that all out.

 

The thing with ds is that he is so mature in a lot of ways. He can go play in the woods with his little brother and follow all the rules and come back safely. He plays settlers of catan and other strategy game like that. He does a great job in conversations with adults (he talks on the phone to my parents better than my other kids). I can drop him off at baseball and he keeps track of his stuff and where he is in the lineup with no help. I think his coach would say he is the most mature kid on the team.

 

He really only acts like that for me. I think if he were comfortable with anyone else, he would act like that for them too. He had a huge fit last week because I told him we were all going to the eye doctor. I honestly didn't know if I would be able to get him to go. Once he was in his exam the nurse came back and told me he was just "so darn adorable." I really don't think it is because of my lack of parenting skills (my other 3 kids are all basically compliant). I really think he just feels safe to act like that for me. I don't think he will act like that at school at all (at least for the first several months). I do think he will be very difficult in the evenings since he will be using up all of his "goodness" at school.

 

I am ok with him not doing school right now except for two things. I am not sure that we will be homeschooling forever and I don't want him to get so far behind his public school peers. Also, our state law requires kids age 6-16 to be learning certain subjects. I guess I could count learning in different ways, but I do want to comply with the law. (We have a very low regulation state so no one really checks, but kids 6 and up are supposed to be getting an education).

 

I think he would do well in school because he does much better with structure. I can be more structured around here, but it is a hard thing for me. I have 4 kids and a house to run. Last week we had eye dr, the week before was dentist, then flu shots. We had to have a home repair this week. Things keep interrupting our structure.

 

I have been parenting him full time for 6 years now so I do have some tricks to get him to do things. It just takes so long and so much of my mental and emotional energy. I am tired of it. And I feel like my other 3 kids just get my leftovers and that isn't fair to them. In my ideal world, ds6 would want to go to school and I would just take him.

 

It isn't just academic stuff that he won't do. He hates running errands so he often won't get in the car. It is like he can only comply so many times in a day and then he is just done. Since I started academic expectations in September I think it just overloaded his ability to comply in general. So he kind of regressed to being oppositional about things he had quit being oppositional about.

 

Dh and I probably do need family counseling. He doesn't come right out and say it but I am sure he thinks that this child's behavior is my fault. Really I have been doing almost all of the child raising for various reasons. But this ds has been hard his whole life and I rarely have had a break from him. I have literally gone years when I was his only caregiver without even one evening off. So I can kind of see why Dh would think it is my fault. I will just say that dh's response to my asking for help hasn't been super supportive.

 

I think one reason ds is defiant is because he is anxious. For his birthday my mom took him rock climbing, which is right up his alley and something he really wanted to do. That morning he wouldn't get dressed. I couldn't believe it, but I think he was nervous about going. I think he also struggles with transitions. And sometimes I think he just doesn't want to do something and he has no currency that makes doing whatever worth it.

I think you might be on to something with the anxiety. As I was reading back through some of your posts, your ds reminds me of my friend's son. They have recently figured out that the root of many of his behavior problems is anxiety. They decided to try medication and it's making a HUGE difference. Not just for the parents, but for the child. Consider getting him evaluated.

[katilac]

Your other kids are 8 and 10- do you really need an adult to be with them while you run ds to school?

 

I believe there is a 4-yr-old as well. 

[maize]

I mentioned briefly that my six year old is in school this year. My four year old is also in preschool this year. I'll share a bit more of my story here in case it helps.

 

The six year old is not my most intense child, but he was unhappy and fighting a lot at home. I felt that he might thrive in the structure of school. He has a June birthday and I made the decision to put him in kindergarten this year in a second language immersion program. So far, he is really thriving there. There are occasionally days when he doesn't want to go, but even on those days he is happy when I pick him up. It really does seem to be a good for for him.

 

The four year old is my most intense child--he has ADHD and anxiety diagnoses, and also has some autism spectrum traits though no diagnosis at this time. He's a tough kid to parent. Last year I tried sending him to the district preschool on an IEP; that was OK at the beginning of the year but he became increasingly unhappy with it and resistant to going as the year went on. I decided it was not a good fit and pulled him out in January. This year I enrolled him in a private Montessori preschool that seems to be working really well for him.

 

I hate all the driving, this really doesn't simplify my life at all--but both boys are thriving and seem to be happier with the outside structure of school. I have three older children being homeschooled--including another very intense child--and a toddler underfoot. Life is never boring around here.

 

I can't tell anyone else what will be best for their child, but do encourage you to consider the needs of and options for each child individually.

Edited October 12, 2016 by maize

[mamakelly]

My oldest was super challenging to homeschool. By about 6th grade I was drowning. My friends and family convinced me to continuity homescholing him through 8th grade. I honestly wish I had sent him to school before high school. He doesn't have fond memories of homeschooling in middle school. We were just constantly butting heads. Would school have made it better? Maybe. Would it have made it worse? Maybe. I just wish I had been willing to give it a try. I was just so stuck in my "homeschooling is always best" bubble. I wasn't in our situation, and I wish I have been brace enough to see that.

[ElizabethB]

??????

 

Seriously? You would punish not being able to read at 6?

It is not punishing, it is incentive...to get him to figure out one of the benefits of being able to read. I have a friend who did it for one of her boys who was like this after she had tried a bunch of other things to get him to work, he was also one who needed to see a reason and have a motivation before he would work. Edited October 12, 2016 by ElizabethB

[PeterPan]

Wow, so much good advice. Thanks everyone for taking time to type that all out.

 

The thing with ds is that he is so mature in a lot of ways. He can go play in the woods with his little brother and follow all the rules and come back safely. He plays settlers of catan and other strategy game like that. He does a great job in conversations with adults (he talks on the phone to my parents better than my other kids). I can drop him off at baseball and he keeps track of his stuff and where he is in the lineup with no help. I think his coach would say he is the most mature kid on the team.

 

He really only acts like that for me. I think if he were comfortable with anyone else, he would act like that for them too. He had a huge fit last week because I told him we were all going to the eye doctor. I honestly didn't know if I would be able to get him to go. Once he was in his exam the nurse came back and told me he was just "so darn adorable." I really don't think it is because of my lack of parenting skills (my other 3 kids are all basically compliant). I really think he just feels safe to act like that for me. I don't think he will act like that at school at all (at least for the first several months). I do think he will be very difficult in the evenings since he will be using up all of his "goodness" at school.

 

I am ok with him not doing school right now except for two things. I am not sure that we will be homeschooling forever and I don't want him to get so far behind his public school peers. Also, our state law requires kids age 6-16 to be learning certain subjects. I guess I could count learning in different ways, but I do want to comply with the law. (We have a very low regulation state so no one really checks, but kids 6 and up are supposed to be getting an education).

 

I think he would do well in school because he does much better with structure. I can be more structured around here, but it is a hard thing for me. I have 4 kids and a house to run. Last week we had eye dr, the week before was dentist, then flu shots. We had to have a home repair this week. Things keep interrupting our structure.

 

I have been parenting him full time for 6 years now so I do have some tricks to get him to do things. It just takes so long and so much of my mental and emotional energy. I am tired of it. And I feel like my other 3 kids just get my leftovers and that isn't fair to them. In my ideal world, ds6 would want to go to school and I would just take him.

 

It isn't just academic stuff that he won't do. He hates running errands so he often won't get in the car. It is like he can only comply so many times in a day and then he is just done. Since I started academic expectations in September I think it just overloaded his ability to comply in general. So he kind of regressed to being oppositional about things he had quit being oppositional about.

 

Dh and I probably do need family counseling. He doesn't come right out and say it but I am sure he thinks that this child's behavior is my fault. Really I have been doing almost all of the child raising for various reasons. But this ds has been hard his whole life and I rarely have had a break from him. I have literally gone years when I was his only caregiver without even one evening off. So I can kind of see why Dh would think it is my fault. I will just say that dh's response to my asking for help hasn't been super supportive.

 

I think one reason ds is defiant is because he is anxious. For his birthday my mom took him rock climbing, which is right up his alley and something he really wanted to do. That morning he wouldn't get dressed. I couldn't believe it, but I think he was nervous about going. I think he also struggles with transitions. And sometimes I think he just doesn't want to do something and he has no currency that makes doing whatever worth it.

 

The things you listed as signs of maturity were more likely due to high IQ and professorial tone and verbal style.  And yes, people like my kid.  He still has autism.  The non-compliance and refusals, the anxiety, the issues with transitions, these are HUGE, HUGE, HUGE, glaring red flags, I'm talking like so glaring, as common to autism.  They are things people EXPECT to see happening with autism.  You say autism and they expect problems with transitions.  You say autism and they expect anxiety.  

 

My dh blamed me.  It took 4 psych evals and bringing an ABA team into our home for 6 months to stop some of that. Actually, what helped it MOST was bringing the team into the home.  Because they did the same things to them as he did to me.  

 

The reason he has behaviors with you?  One, he's more comfortable with you, and two you make demands.  Grandparents, SS teachers, dads, these people are usually smoothing things over, avoiding demands.  Moms are the ones going no you're going RIGHT NOW whether you like it or not.  That's a demand.  That's sort of crass.  A demand could be "hey, could you bring me that cup of water?" or even more inocuous like smiling for a photo or...

 

Anyways, when I brought the team into our home and they started working with him, the novelty quickly, quickly wore off.  He began having the same behaviors with them he would have with me, but I finally had objective evidence that it wasn't ME.  It was that, even with a highly structured environment and clear expectations and reasonable supports and motivation and clear explanation of rules and consequences, he was still non-compliant and having behaviors.  

 

The divorce rate in autism families is like 80% from what I've read.  I wouldn't pay money for family counseling.  I'm controversial.  I'm saying ABA CHANGED OUR LIVES.  I would get the proper psych evals for him, get the right words, and get the right intervention, and get it pronto.  If you bring in a behaviorist (BCBA), they can answer your questions, help you problem solve, and do what the counselor would have done.  But instead of wasting $$ on talking, you're spending it on getting something to CHANGE, soon, right away.  And for us that took a team and sufficient hours of ABA.

[PeterPan]

Yeah, you're going to have to calm down that schedule and get some help.  What's working really well with my ds (similar age) is to have a weekly calendar whiteboard thing (cheap at walmart!) where we write down the plan for the week.  That way he knows the plan.  Go through the plan Sunday night, write it out, and let him get it all in his head.  Ask if there are things he wants to do.  etc.

 

As far as apps, we set alarms for 20 min before we need to leave.  We're RELIGIOUS about alarms.

 

I wouldn't allow appts that disrupt your morning routine.  He needs consistency.  Only schedule appts in the afternoon.  

 

If you get evals and get a diagnosis and get an in-home team, you'll have coverage and hours to be more flexible.  Like now my team does 4 hour chunks.  I can go run errands, etc., because I know they have him.

[mommyoffive]

I think that a lot of boys just aren't ready for formal schooling at 6.  I think a lot of them need big rocks to jump off of, and streams to play in, and dangerous monkey bars and merry go rounds to play on, and their brains are not ready to sit still.  If people would calm down and give them a couple of years to mature, they would, and they would never get diagnosed with anything.  And I'm in a family where we all have ADHD.

 

Having said that, if the problem is not just that he won't sit still and learn for more than 10 minutes a day, but that he is actively being disruptive of others, or it's not a matter of readiness so much as it is defiance against you...  well in that case I'd consider school too.

 

 

Edited because auto-correct failed.

 

I agree.

 

I think a lot of us moms with the younger kids need to hear this with real examples of moms that have gone through it and seen the kid is fine in 5 years or whatever.  It is like when you dont think your 2 year old will ever pee on the potty.  

[mamiof5]

Yes you can. I'd have a heart to heart conversation with dh. Why the all or nothing? If school is working for other kids, why change it because of the one? I don't get it.

 

Maybe ds 6 would benefit from school. Doesn't mean the others have to change what they are doing

[Katy]

Anxiety....  has he always been anxious?  Has he had strep?  Has anyone mentioned PANDAS?

[QueenCat]

We've lived in several states and this is the first school system that I think I can actually work with! They have been great! I think the magic words that made them offer a homebound teacher to DD was when the doctor said he did not want her in school yet, at least not full time. I'm sure they wouldn't offer it based on just my preferences, but if the OP could get an eval and have the doctor say the same thing it could be an option. They can't go against a doctor's order can they?

 

 

Doctor's can't order schools to do anything....... They can just make recommendations. I've had schools disagree with a doctor's recommendation before. Schools do have to consider any private evaluations but legally, it doesn't trump their own evaluations. They're supposed to consider it all in developing the IEP with the parents.... A good school district would do what yours did for at least the short term while conducting the full-scale eval but they don't have to.........

[Lecka]

We don't all get the "happy ending" where our kids grow out of all of their difficulties with the gift of time.

 

I didn't get it.

 

It is okay.  My son has a diagnosis and he is doing very well with the supports that we provide because they are known to help with his diagnosis.

 

But once upon a time I shared things with others and got a message of "just believe in the gift of time" and for me, that didn't end up being how the story has played out.

 

Yes, it works out that way for many people.

 

But with just some words on a screen, I think there are a lot of possibilities, and they include that maybe a child will be one who does get diagnosed with something and then get the right kind of help and support. 

 

I do know people from pre-school whose kids have really just grown out of things, too, and I am happy for them.  In a lot of ways this is my oldest son, too!  But I think it is only fair to say, the gift of time is great for many kids, and then for other kids, it is good to see about seeking help that could include getting diagnosed with something.

 

I think one thing to look at, is if all the problems are on the parents' side with things being inconvenient to the parents or not on the parents' timetable. 

 

But what if problems are on the child's side, the child is unhappy, the child would like to do things that are difficult, the child would like to be able to participate in things..... but maybe something is getting in the way. 

 

I think there are times when it is really in the best interest of the child. 

 

Other times I think it is not.

 

It can really go either way, but I think it depends on the child. 

[luuknam]

The divorce rate in autism families is like 80% from what I've read.  I wouldn't pay money for family counseling.

 

From what I've read, that simply isn't true:

 

http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20100519/autism-famlies-high-divorce-rate-is-a-myth#1

 

Also, if the OP's husband can't verbalize why he thinks "kids in school" is an all-or-nothing thing, to the point that the OP thinks that if she puts one in school, her husband will enroll the others against her will, then I think one or two sessions with a couples' counselor may very well be worth it. There might be some simple things they can do to improve their communication. E.g. "I heard you say", where you paraphrase back what you heard the other one say. Or even writing a letter if talking about the feelings is too hard. Or who knows? I'm not a couples' counselor. I wouldn't just go week after week with minimal progress, but I'd definitely recommend going a couple of times, because not feeling heard is going to breed resentment, which is not good for anyone. Plus, her insurance may cover it.

[Desert Strawberry]

These quotes from the same person are from a similar philosophy, so I snipped from both.

 

 

Carrots has where s/he is coming from, and that's fine.  I think it's also useful to insert some information that balances that out.  For instance, the CTOPP is now available normed for as young as 4.  The IDA (international dyslexia association), iirc, is now saying they want kids with dyslexia identified BEFORE 1st grade.  Not 3rd grade, not 8/9/10.  Before 1st grade.  And that's because you do NOT have to be reading to diagnose dyslexia.  They can run the CTOPP and diagnose it based on the phonological processing scores, bam, done.

 

So the whole "but in Finland" thing is a red herring.  Early is better with dyslexia identification.

 

Thing two, when people say their kid outgrew xyz, blah blah, we can actually quantify those delays with testing.  For instance, we can run the CELF or CASL and actual determine the degree the language is behind.  My ds has both a phonological processing problem (traditional dyslexia) AND language problems (low CELF scores).  We spent a year remediating language, pausing Barton entirely, and he began reading.  Yes, he would have eventually (like age 10 or 12) gotten those equivalent language scores WITHOUT the therapy materials and then have begun reading.  And I would have been saying SEE, YOU JUST WAIT TILL KIDDO IS 10 AND STOP BEING SO UNREALISTIC AND IT ALL OUTGROWS AND FIXES ITSELF!!  And think about how pissed that mom should be that no one told her that she could get language testing, do 15 minutes a day of intervention, and in 6 months bridge the language gap, improve those scores, and get to the same place.  By age 7, not 10/12.  

 

Just because someone says something turned out well for them doesn't mean you'll be happy with the results.  It doesn't mean it turned out for the reason they SAY it turned out.  Data is where it's at.  Evals, testing.  Even "immature" what kind of thing is that to say?  Like, hello, give the kid theory of mind testing, run adaptive living and other inventories on him, and see whether he is objectively behind his peers and in what.  

 

My ds has had all that testing, and I have data to guide my decisions.  I choose to intervene because it's not necessary to wait wishfully.  I choose to intervene because intervention CAN be done in a respectful, even CHILD LED way, believe it or not.  

 

I think it's easy to have low expectations for our kids and want the easy way out.  When I first started bringing professionals into my home to help with ds, I was SO caught up in being sensitive to what I thought he could/could not do (special snowflake) that I had no perspective on where he COULD be with some support.  It's not good enough to say we know our kids, because in really challenging situations we're caught in such a whirlwind of emotions we can't even help ourselves or make it slow down, let alone see the road we could be walking down AND figure out how to get us turned onto it.  That takes outside help.

 

And fwiw, this is a board with lots of perspectives.  If someone likes Cindy Gaddis (all the way to the childled, just wait and let it happen with your kid with disabilities, warm fuzzies perspective), there are people.  And there are people who are like done with it, send 'em to school.  And there are weirdos like me in the middle bringing a team in and calling it homeschooling, lol.  There is no board morality to protect here.  We're grown-ups with a lot of ideas floating around.  People have to try things and think through the consequences.

I want to be clear. The child that I hled back has been evaluated twice, received therapy and does not have learning disabilities. He does have a medical issue that we are now dealing with.

 

I currently have a child receiving multiple therapies. I am not against intervention at. All. 

 

I did not mean to just wait and see. If an eval is needed, absolutely, get one. Or two. 4 of my five have had evals and/or inventions. Absolutely life changing.

 

I was solely addressing the need to pace the learning for the child. Pushing any child past their readiness is counter productive. Pushing a defiant child is extremely damaging.

[kiwik]

Just bear in mind that in a year or two it will be harder to make him go to school than it is now. I would not leave a 8 and 10 year old alone (even if it were legal here) as it will probably take you a lot longer to get him into class than you expect especially with a four year old in tow. If your husband won't stay I would look at employing someone to watch all three kids at drop off and pick up times. Do you have a neighbour or someone who you can ask?

 

Here we take kids that age into the class which means parking and taking younger siblings which is hard when one child is resisting and people are staring. The teachers also tend to not handle it that well so you end up staying so they don't make it worse. Usually the parent makes an arrangement to hand the child to the principal but it is unpleasant and upsetting for everyone especially siblings.

 

But if you can get assessments and maybe look for allergies or imbslances/nutritional lacks. And does he get enough sleep?

Edited October 14, 2016 by kiwik