Would you join a church that's not your faith? Long; opinions welcome

[poppy]

I am moving from a fairly urban, walkable, diverse neighborhood to a rural right-to-farm town in Massachusetts.
I want to build a network, and I'm not sure how. 

We're joining a homeschool coop two towns over, and a few other little things 30-45 minute away. But in town? There's not much.

And our kids won't be in school to make local connections, either.

 

So I'm thinking of the town Congregational church.

They have a really nice minister, social hour every Sunday, committees to join, occasional outings.

 

For those unfamiliar, New England Congregationalists are Protestants whose trappings are old fashioned (the choir wears robes) , but they are socially liberal and have a strong social justice focus.  I admire our local "Congo" church.  We didn't join because it is not our faith, but, they do a lot of good hands-on work in terms of helping the needy, showing up to demonstrations for the environment, welcoming LGBT in town, supporting international efforts. For example they recently did a sew-a-thon making reusable pads for girls in India who otherwise wouldn't be able to go to school during their periods.  Good stuff, IMO.

 

My husband and are are both non-believers.  

But we both grew up going to church on Sunday  and we like the idea of church and having our kids in Sunday school. 

Right now we are active members of a UU church. I run a committee, he teaches in Sunday school, etc etc.

(For those unfamiliar it is a non-theistic religion.)

Our kids do believe in God.   Not sure exactly how that happened.  I think they just picked up on references and ran with it.

My husband and I will NOT discourage positive beliefs in our kids.

We answer their questions fairly neutrally ("a lot of people believe ....")   We describe Jesus  as a great teacher.

 

If we join the Congregational church, my children will become Protestant. I feel odd about that, but, I don't think it is a bad thing.  I know they will learn positive things that generally align with our values, and will come to know community service and social justice is  is important.

 

And it would be nice to maybe make friends.  It's hard to be a newbie in a Massachusetts town. People are good but not generally open and warm with strangers here.

 

I'm rambling.  I'll stop. What do you think?

[RioSamba]

You can attend without joining. Speak to the minister. I think he will invite you to do just that.

[Bluegoat]

I would try going for a while to get a feel for the place.  I think Congregational congregations can be quite different from each other.

 

If you join, I think as non-believers you might want to consider how you will handle "official" things, like voting on issues that have a real religious component (not things like should we get a new roof.)  We have a few non-Christians in our congregation, and typically they seem to refrain from those kinds of decisions, but I've seen a few cases in other places where that didn't happen and it caused friction within the congregation.

 

As far as your kids - I guess to me the labels don't matter so much.  I think it's good for kids to have access to good  teaching about a coherent worldview as they mature, and a place to reflect as part of a community about some of the big questions.  If anything is too far out of your comfort zone you aren't likely to stay there anyway.  IN the end, they will make their own decisions about what they believe, and I think that good teaching about almost any thought system equips people to do that more effectively than no teaching.

[hornblower]

I couldn't do it. We even had to give up on our very loose & open UU, which is definitely on the non-theistic end of the UU spectrum.  

I think if you think you can find positives in it & not feel awkward, it might be ok. But if the assumption on their part will be that you *are* believers, won't it be awkward sooner or later? 

[nevergiveup]

Same god, isn't it?

[chiguirre]

I'd attend with no problem. What's involved in being a member? Is it pretty much putting your name on a mailing list or do you have to make a formal commitment?

[marbel]

I would go for a while and see how it goes.  Would you have to join?  We have a lot of nonmembers but regular attenders at our church.  The main difference is that nonmembers cannot vote.  I don't even know who are members and who are not, and I'm married to one of the pastors. It's not like it's a big secret, but there's just nothing much to differentiate between members and non.  :-)

 

But also... I have never been to a church that didn't have some sort of vows for members.  Maybe this church does not, of course. But if  a person at my church went to the membership class and could not say yes to the membership vows...they could not become members.   But you could find out the church's policy or philosophy on that.

 

I hope you find what you're looking for in your new home. :-)

 

ETA: short answer to actual question:  I would not join a church that's not my faith.  I might attend.

 

And re: vows - one of them is affirming a belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.  So that would be problematic, right?  But again, I don't know about Congregationalists so perhaps they would not require anything like that. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by marbel

[umsami]

I would definitely visit and see how you like it.

 

It might be a good match for your family.  :)

[Arctic Bunny]

I took my kids to a church in our previous town that was not "my" denomination. But it was close enough for me, and not a lot of choice. I enjoyed the services, my kids enjoyed Sunday School, and we all enjoyed the "community". My husband does not believe. At all. The minister at the time asked me why he didn't come, and I told him. The minister expressed that he was welcome to come anyway, and enjoy the fellowship. And for the record, nobody asked ME if I believe. So as long as you're okay with people assuming you're views align with theirs... It's a great way to find a community.

[lauraw4321]

I would attend. Usually joining a church involves an affirmation of faith. I couldn't affirm I believed something I didn't believe.

[Ravin]

Same god, isn't it?

 

You don't know much about UU's, do you?

 

 

I say, if you are comfortable with it, go for it. I joined the UU for a while when I was stuck in small town Texas. I'm not really even a CUUPS sort of pagan, but it gave me something to do on Sunday mornings while the rest of my family was in church, and helped me make some social connections. There was no pastor so the services were based on volunteer speakers and it was usually interesting.

 

I can see how in your shoes attending the Congregationalist church would make sense.

[mumto2]

I would attend but not become a member unless you feel comfortable taking the membership vows at some point in the future.

[Evergreen State Sue]

I would only join the church if I had the same core beliefs.  If the church believed Jesus was the son of God and I only thought he was a good teacher, that is not the same core belief.  I still might attend, especially if my children believed, but I wouldn't teach other children. 

[raptor_dad]

I think the UCC/Congregationalists and the UU's are as close as you are going to get to sister churchs.

 

The UCC is very welcoming of seekers, you can attend without joining without stigma. One of the recent classes of adults at our church had someone formally joining after attending for over a decade. Likewise the most recent youth confirmation class had one of the ~9 kids complete the rigorous year long class and decide not to join the church. It was no big deal. She still attends with her family, but she just wasn't comfortable with the affirmation of faith.

 

The UCC and UUs have similar social justice values and codevelopped the OWL sex ed curriculum.

 

Some of the New England UU churches are former congregational churches like First Parish in Cambridge or First Parish in Quincy.

 

I think a good Congregational church could be a good spiritual and social home without compelling you to compromise your beliefs.

[trulycrabby]

I would attend for at least a year to see how you like this particular church culture. Personally, I would not recommend joining unless you can give an honest expression of faith and commitment, but I see no reason why you cannot be a permanent, contributing visitor.

[Janeway]

I am more of a deist. But I was raised ELCA. I would be happy to raise my children in the ELCA church. It gave me a lot of comfort to have faith. I would happily take my children and go along with the teaching. I would love to give them that. It would really be giving them something I do not have. And I would not admit that I do not have it. ELCA members do not sit around questioning each other on their faith like many southern religions do. So yea, I would happily take my children there. I do not even tell my children now what my exact beliefs are. I am open with them about my feelings on key social points. But, not about my faith.

[Matryoshka]

We go to a church that is affiliated with both the UCC and UU.  We've had ministers from both.

 

One good thing is that the UCC does not have a creed, so there's nothing you 'have to' believe.

 

Wait, there's no UU church around?  Thought there was one in practically every town in MA - or at least the next one over... :)

It's true that attending church can be a good way to get to know people in town - as you say, people don't tend to roll out the welcome wagon to newbies...  Almost all the people I actually know in town are from church (since the kids didn't attend school...)

 

What general area of MA have you moved to?  Now I'm just being nosey. ;)  We're NW of Boston.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Matryoshka

[Doodlebug]

Probably not...

 

Supporting the good work of a religious group is not at all the same as joining with them in the things that motivate that work.

 

 

[Garga]

I think it's ok to attend. I don't think you should join. I don't think you should vote on anything spiritual that might come up. I don't think you should be in any sort of position that makes it look like you're a representative of that church: so no teaching a kid's class, no heading up a group. I think being in any kind of leadership position, even a mild one like leading a sewing group, would be misrepresenting yourself.

 

But attending? Sure. Making friends? Sure. Sounds good to me. Though any friends you make might be confused if they ever want to discuss something spiritual and find out you don't believe the same. It sounds like this is the kind of denomination that would be ok with it, but there might be a bit of confusion at first so be prepared for that. I'm not saying they'll shun you, but if someone is taken aback at first, don't be surprised.

 

I have some friends who moved to Maine and they said the same thing about the people in the northeast. Nice, salt of the earth, capable...but not exactly friendly to newcomers. She is a garrulous person and had to learn to tone herself down a lot, as the people there were not responding to her overtures at all. She overwhelmed them. Finding a church of people who are like-minded as you are would be a great way to make connections in the community. But taking on any role of any leader would feel dishonest to me.

[happypamama]

I might attend, but I wouldn't feel comfortable joining, and I probably wouldn't feel comfortable attending for very long.  I can't imagine taking an oath of membership in a place of worship where I didn't agree with the core beliefs, and I think that would probably make it not right for you to teach or otherwise have a place of leadership.  

Edited May 13, 2016 by happypamama

[poppy]

Thanks so much for all these comments. It's very helpful.

 

I hadn't even really thought of the difference between "attend" and "join" but now I see how important it is.

Lots to think about here.

 

We go to a church that is affiliated with both the UCC and UU.  We've had ministers from both.

 

One good thing is that the UCC does not have a creed, so there's nothing you 'have to' believe.

 

Wait, there's no UU church around?  Thought there was one in practically every town in MA - or at least the next one over... :)

It's true that attending church can be a good way to get to know people in town - as you say, people don't tend to roll out the welcome wagon to newbies...  Almost all the people I actually know in town are from church (since the kids didn't attend school...)

 

What general area of MA have you moved to?  Now I'm just being nosey. ;)  We're NW of Boston.

 

Well yes, it is Mass, so there is a UU church in the next town ! 5 UU churches within 10 miles...... even in the boonies. (not near you).
Just trying to find something to do in town.

 

Plus, honestly, I've been a little disappointed by UU.    So much about sprituality: spiritual practices, spiritual dimensions, spiritual growth.  And faith: a chosen faith, a liberal faith, a faith community.   I do not think it is my cup of tea.

 

[Audrey]

It's not hard to get along if it's a good group of people, but you will have to fake a lot.  Even if you're a good actor, that can get wearisome after a while, and you might not feel so good about yourself.  That's just my opinion, though.  There are lots of people who attend churches that don't align with their beliefs or non-beliefs.  It's not an unusual occurrence.  I guess it just depends on whether or not it is something that you can manage and still feel comfortable for the long term.

[Anne in CA]

My uncle is a minister in this denomination. I can tell you that NO ONE cares if you join or not, or if you believe in God or not. They are a special sort of group. If they are your tribe, just go and enjoy.

[Matryoshka]

Plus, honestly, I've been a little disappointed by UU.    So much about sprituality: spiritual practices, spiritual dimensions, spiritual growth.  And faith: a chosen faith, a liberal faith, a faith community.   I do not think it is my cup of tea.

 

You might want to try all the UU's around out... seems like every single congregation is different!  I've attended a few different ones, but it's never seemed like quite the right fit to me either (but maybe for different reasons than you ;) ).  i can't quite put my finger on it, but the ones I've attended seemed, I think, more like a social justice club than a church.  But then UCC churches I've been too are a bit too full-on Christian to me (I'm a theist, but not really Christian - more in the Jesus was a good teacher/prophet camp).  Although that latter belief I don't think is really out of place in most UCC churches.  

[Tsuga]

I would not attend but I'd support my kids' attendance at any religious services that I felt were not predatory (i.e. not a cult).

[Reefgazer]

I think it would be fine for you to go and visit and attend for a while without joining. I have attended the church we go to for close to ten years now (Methodist) and have never formally joined; not joining has nothing to do with my beliefs, either. I don't think there is any need to formally join a church at all or even discuss your beliefs with church members, and I think your reasons for going are perfectly valid and solid. If it turns out to be not for your family, you can leave with no harm, no foul.

 

 

 

I am moving from a fairly urban, walkable, diverse neighborhood to a rural right-to-farm town in Massachusetts.

I want to build a network, and I'm not sure how.

We're joining a homeschool coop two towns over, and a few other little things 30-45 minute away. But in town? There's not much.

And our kids won't be in school to make local connections, either.

 

So I'm thinking of the town Congregational church.

They have a really nice minister, social hour every Sunday, committees to join, occasional outings.

 

For those unfamiliar, New England Congregationalists are Protestants whose trappings are old fashioned (the choir wears robes) , but they are socially liberal and have a strong social justice focus. I admire our local "Congo" church. We didn't join because it is not our faith, but, they do a lot of good hands-on work in terms of helping the needy, showing up to demonstrations for the environment, welcoming LGBT in town, supporting international efforts. For example they recently did a sew-a-thon making reusable pads for girls in India who otherwise wouldn't be able to go to school during their periods. Good stuff, IMO.

 

My husband and are are both non-believers.

But we both grew up going to church on Sunday and we like the idea of church and having our kids in Sunday school.

Right now we are active members of a UU church. I run a committee, he teaches in Sunday school, etc etc.

(For those unfamiliar it is a non-theistic religion.)

Our kids do believe in God. Not sure exactly how that happened. I think they just picked up on references and ran with it.

My husband and I will NOT discourage positive beliefs in our kids.

We answer their questions fairly neutrally ("a lot of people believe ....") We describe Jesus as a great teacher.

 

If we join the Congregational church, my children will become Protestant. I feel odd about that, but, I don't think it is a bad thing. I know they will learn positive things that generally align with our values, and will come to know community service and social justice is is important.

 

And it would be nice to maybe make friends. It's hard to be a newbie in a Massachusetts town. People are good but not generally open and warm with strangers here.

 

I'm rambling. I'll stop. What do you think?

Edited May 13, 2016 by reefgazer

[Reefgazer]

This exactly!

 

My uncle is a minister in this denomination. I can tell you that NO ONE cares if you join or not, or if you believe in God or not. They are a special sort of group. If they are your tribe, just go and enjoy.

[mamiof5]

I wouldn't attend, or become members in a church that is not my faith. For several reasons it just wouldn't work out.

[Tap]

I do not think there is any harm in attending.  If you want to work in leadership at all, I would make sure to have a conversation in the first month or so, with the pastor (preferably in private) about your spiritual path and let him know your intentions are to be good parishioners with or without believing in a deity.  My guess is that you will be welcomed with open arms and by being open with him/her it will allow that person to guide you in any leadership roles you are asked to participate in.  

 

I would not join as a member if there is a faith statement.

 

 

 

 

[DawnM]

Sure, go check it out.  If you don't like it, you are under no obligation to continue going.

[Alessandra]

This reminds me of a time I visited, as a tourist, the Arch Street Meeting House in Philadelphia, the oldest Quaker meeting in the U.S. Our guide said that members were free to have their own beliefs, and that there were even some atheist Quakers.

 

If your new church is as liberal in its range of beliefs, I'd say go ahead and join, as opposed to just attending. I'd go/attend for a while and not pretend to have any beliefs I didn't truly have. Then see what happens.

[Lecka]

At my church, the only difference between being someone who regularly attends and who is a member, is whether or not you can vote at a congregational meeting. This is like -- voting to pass the church budget at the annual meeting.

 

I have never gone bc of needing to take my kids home after church.

 

I am a member, but I was a "friend of the church" (what we would call somebody who has never formally joined) for several years, and there is really no difference.

 

We do not have a denominational creed or statement of faith. Nobody would be surprised if you didn't hold some certain set of beliefs.

 

It is a church where many people are involved bc they do not want to make a statement of faith. Here you would have that in common with quite a few people.

 

But it is not a secret, you don't have to pretend.

[Bluegoat]

The difference between being a member and joining doesn't seem at all the same in many kinds of churches.  There isn't the emphasis on theis kind of strong membership requirements and such.

 

My denomination is sacramental, joining is being baptised (ever) and confirmation, but that is joining the Church as a whole rather than a congregation, and for a variety of reasons many people are never confirmed.  Being a parish member just means coming and being committed to the parish.  We have members on our parish counsil that were born and baptized into comepletely different denominations and have never had to do or sign something that makes them a parish member.  (Though, there are other ways of making sure people who end up in particular jobs like parish council o teaching are actually qualified to do the job.)

 

[heartlikealion]

I couldn't get past the fact that you currently go to church but define yourselves as non believers. :confused1:  Did you initially start going for your kids? For fellowship? I don't understand.

 

Dh and I are not the same faith. When we moved here, very tiny town, he did think about going to the local church. He was planning on going with ds, at least to check it out, and I basically said, "ok, but ds is still going to church with me" (moral obligation. He's been raised Catholic so far and is baptized. We are supposed to go every weekend. It is not convenient. We have to leave town to attend). But they never ended up going. I doubt we would have felt like we fit there, anyway.

 

There is nothing wrong with attending a church, believer or not. But I personally could not switch faiths or go regularly if I didn't believe and no one in my immediate family was tied to the faith. I guess I'd be asking myself if I'm doing this for convenience (access to fellowship or whatever) and if so, what happens when I move again? What if my kids got baptized in this town. Will I have my kids convert if the next town has a different town church? I'm not saying you are doing this, just thinking hypothetically. It sounds like you'd be attending in part for your kids' sake... but is that what got you started going to UU? If not, what drew you there? I don't expect you to answer me, but this is food for thought.

 

I cannot personally fathom being a leader of any sort in a church where I didn't believe. But then again, I'm not really sure I understand what is taught in your Sunday school and what it means to be in a non-theistic religion. I tried googling, but still kinda lost. Not much help, I know.

 

In my faith you register at a parish, but you might attend other local parishes of the same faith without changing your registration. It's maybe not the norm, but it's what I do a lot because the Mass times vary so much around here and I end up going to different ones in different cities. I only change my registration when I move long distance.

[Paige]

Attend, but don't join and don't teach or do anything related to theology. You could even speak to the minister and tell him what's up. He or she probably wouldn't care, but it's nice to know who not to ask to do something.

[poppy]

 

I couldn't get past the fact that you currently go to church but define yourselves as non believers. :confused1:  Did you initially start going for your kids? For fellowship? I don't understand.

I went to a church that welcomed people of all faiths as well as agnostics and atheists. The founding principles of UU church are:

1. The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
2. Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
3. Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
4. A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
5. The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
6. The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
7. Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

Most of the people in my church were raised either Christian or Jewish, no longer had faith in the dogma of the church they grew up in, and wanted to be in a community that welcomed questions with a sense of mutual respect.

Make sense?

[AddlepatedMonkeyMama]

I am an atheist married to a Congregationalist. While the congregation and pastor at my husband's church (also in MA) were very welcoming at both the Sunday services and fellowship gatherings, I ultimately did not feel comfortable being involved in the church as a non-belieiver. For several years, I was asked (not in a pushy way at all) if I was interested in joining and politely declined. Even though they have the same origin and many similarities, UCC is definitely feels like a Christian denomination as opposed to the more inclusive philosophy of UU. Here is a PDF about becoming a member.

 

My husband takes the kids to church and Sunday School with my blessing. I'm very pleased with the focus on social justice both the youth group and the congregation as a whole, and I like that it's "open and affirming." I hope my kids will be able to participate an OWL program and go on service trips with the youth group when they're older. It is a great way to get to know people in your town.

 

Good luck with your decision and your new home!

[heartlikealion]

I went to a church that welcomed people of all faiths as well as agnostics and atheists. The founding principles of UU church are:

1. The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
2. Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
3. Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
4. A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
5. The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
6. The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
7. Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

Most of the people in my church were raised either Christian or Jewish, no longer had faith in the dogma of the church they grew up in, and wanted to be in a community that welcomed questions with a sense of mutual respect.

Make sense?

 

Thank you. Yes, makes more sense now. But what is taught in Sunday school then? Basically overall equality and respect for other religions/spirituality?

Edited: I guess that's a dumb question. I suppose it could be any/all of the seven things you listed.

Edited May 13, 2016 by heartlikealion

[poppy]

Not a dumb question!

 

The 1st graders learn basic little kid stuff - be kind, help people. They do a collection for the animal shelter.

 

2nd graders learn heroes and role models. My daughter's favorite was Clara Barton.

 

3rd grade does Old Testament stories.

 

I forget 4th and 5th.

 

6th graders do a 'think about the Big Questions' year.

 

7th graders learn about and tour a variety of churches. Catholic , Muslim, Orthodox, Jewish, Buddhist and one other- I forget .

 

Then they do youth group stuff and service trips.

[nevergiveup]

You don't know much about UU's, do you?

 

 

Nope.  But she said her kids do believe in god, and, according to Poppy, UUs are supposed to foster "Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations." 

Couldn't this be looked as promoting "spiritual growth?"

[poppy]

Obviously I am very open to theism for my kids. But I don't know if it's accurate to say it's all the same God, particularly if you are contrasting from a Christian perspective . I've not raised up the divinity of Jesus, for example, or the immutability of God.

[MistyMountain]

As another poster said UUs are more like a social justice club then a church. A lot of members are atheists. Kids learn about all kinds of religions and encouraged to come to their own conclusions. In the classes for kids things such as compassion, kindness, and caring are discussed. Sometimes they will be focused on learning about all kinds of religions and read teachings on religion and sometimes it is not about religion at all. Recently they had a unit on wonder and all the things it could mean. They have curriculum based on grade level but they also do special units that are multi age. For the middle school and high school kids they do a lot of service stuff.

Edited May 15, 2016 by MistyMountain

[luuknam]

I could be mistaken, but I don't think it's rare for people to commute to another town for church if their kind of church isn't in the town they're in. So, you might find people from your town in the UU church the next town over.

[MistyMountain]

Oh and I would consider attending a church like you describe for the community and for the kids who have a belief in a higher power even though I am a non believer. I like the community aspect and it sounds like a place that is welcoming. The only thing that may be hard is the assumed belief but I bet you would not be the only one.