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[73349]

 

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Edited January 17, 2023 by 73349

[momof4babes]

None of them would bother me.

I'm from Canada.

[Donna]

None of them would bother me. I'm from the US.

[Farrar]

None would bother me.

 

I debated weighing in again on that other thread... It's such a difficult balance. I think it's unfair and unrealistic to force really young kids to navigate the dressing room alone, I dislike the sexualization of young kids - assuming that there's a sexual motive to what they're doing or seeing when they're 7 or 8 yo is a problem to me and I see it so often. But I also feel like it's fair to honor people's need for some level of body privacy and that the expectation of same sex changing rooms is a deeply ingrained cultural expectation and it's unfair to people who do feel uncomfortable to yank the rug out and change the rules midstream. I think the right policy is changing rooms with plenty of privacy curtains for those who want it, family changing rooms for those who need it, and a strong guideline of about 7 or 8 yos not going into opposite gender changing rooms. But also, as little ire and nastiness around it as possible.

[Guest]

None would bother me, but I believe I'm the only poster who said I'd prefer a dressing area with no curtains, just benches and showers, mixed sex and no age limits. Doesn't bother me a bit, and I'm a fairly modest woman. But it's washing off chlorine, not masturbation.

[Guest]

I'm good with this option. All I want to do after swimming is get dry and get my outdoor clothes on. I wonder if the above is the norm anywhere ?

Effectively it is the policy at a number of beaches and lakes because of the sheer lack of facilities. But I'm not sure if any developed country had this as standard.

[Melissa in Australia]

All of them would bother me. AU

 

I have 6 boys of my own

 

 I have taught a class of 8 year old boys.  I know how some 8 year olds carry on  - they are not little tiny innocent boys anymore at 8

 

 

With this whole discussion I wonder what people would think if it was an 8 year old girl going with her father into the men's change room - same age. think it might change some people's view.

[Gil]

I don't think any of those pictures are reasonable for the intent of gauging age/size of the children in question.

[Farrar]

 Pools could definitely solve the problem by providing a greater range of changing environments, from almost no privacy to full privacy.

 

I feel that one family change room to serve everyone with a child over 6 is pretty inequitable, especially for a public pool. 

 

As I mom, I do tend to give other moms a break. The rule isn't from God, ya know. There's a little leeway, in my opinion.

 

I've found that most family changing room set ups are just really lacking. For one thing, they typically don't include lockers or if they do, you're gambling that you'll be able to get that specific little room again when you know there might be a long wait. For another, in many of them, you can't then get into the pool. I was directed to one family changing room when my boys were little that was clearly a utility closet. There was even a mop and bucket in there. And a folding chair. And that was it. Of course, most are better than that, but they're still awkwardly placed, harder to get to, and overcrowded in terms of lines. There's only one pool we go to regularly that I can think of where the set up is good - a wide hall/room with lockers and smaller bathroom/shower rooms off the other side. Kids tend to get dressed in the hall space in front of their lockers.

[barnwife]

I voted that none would bother me. However, I agree with Gil that it's hard to tell ages from those photos.

Also, as a mom of 3 kids 5 and under, I have enough to do without worrying about other people's kids. If I am in the changing room/shower at the pool, another person would really have to be staring or whatever to make me notice. I'm too busy trying to get out of there ASAP to notice care about others. 

Well, I did notice one little (4ish) kid running through the shower area once and did say "whoa...slow down" (or something similar) as I didn't notice another adult with the child.

[Harriet Vane]

None would bother me.

 

I debated weighing in again on that other thread... It's such a difficult balance. I think it's unfair and unrealistic to force really young kids to navigate the dressing room alone, I dislike the sexualization of young kids - assuming that there's a sexual motive to what they're doing or seeing when they're 7 or 8 yo is a problem to me and I see it so often. But I also feel like it's fair to honor people's need for some level of body privacy and that the expectation of same sex changing rooms is a deeply ingrained cultural expectation and it's unfair to people who do feel uncomfortable to yank the rug out and change the rules midstream. I think the right policy is changing rooms with plenty of privacy curtains for those who want it, family changing rooms for those who need it, and a strong guideline of about 7 or 8 yos not going into opposite gender changing rooms. But also, as little ire and nastiness around it as possible.

:iagree:

[KungFuPanda]

I do quick changes backstage, so I just don't care anymore. My own son gets embarrassed going by VS, so he's too shy to peek even with the opportunity. Dd was super shy and wouldn't even change in front of women until high school. Then she did theatre and ceased caring anymore.

 

So, none of those boys phase me. I have teens, so they all look super young to me.

[zoobie]

I don't think any of those pictures are reasonable for the intent of gauging age/size of the children in question.

I agree. My DS is 10 and has a baby face. If I cropped a photo of just his face, he would look younger. In person, he's over 5ft, 100 lbs, and from behind could be 12 easily. If I were expecting all women or children 4 and under and came out of the showers to see a male child his size, I'd be startled to say the least.

[Guest]

I'm just gonna say I am glad I do not have this issue in my life. I don't belong to any community pool or gym. I have only been to one with kids when they were in a swimming lesson class and showering and changing was not necessary.

[sbgrace]

None would bother me. I'm from the US. I think D and G look a year or so older than the rest fwiw.

 

 

[Lolly]

Can't make a decision based on the pictures. I did realize something just now though. Some of my decision would be based on the dc's comfort with being in the changing room. I was thinking that I needed to see good full body pictures with other people to compare for size/age. I would also need to see behavior to gauge age/ability. Face shots don't give enough information. Fully body shots without anything to give reference don't either.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Lolly

[Julie Smith]

I go on behaviour not looks. If the child is happily managing everything himself and/or showing that he is uncomfortable, and/or showing inappropriate joy, awkwardness or another emotion at seeing naked woman - then he doesn't belong.

 

In other words I try to go by mental age, and not height or looks.

[SKL]

To me photos don't tell anything.  There are baby-faced boys who are most definitely aware of their surroundings and both they and their same-age classmates would be embarrassed to be in a changing area together.  Some of my kids' 10yo classmates look younger than those photos.  But they have been too old to change in the same room with their female classmates for a long time.

Edited January 31, 2016 by SKL

[MEmama]

All of them.

[HeWillSoar]

None of them would bother me but then I always change in a locker room with a curtain and some privacy.  

[HRAAB]

I really can't tell by the photos.  Also, behavior would probably speak louder than just looks.  

 

I'm 55.  Old.  I can deal with all sorts of things.  On the other hand, I have some dds who would absolutely freak out if boys (I'm thinking 8 and over) were in the women's locker room.  Even though they've been raised in a home that is fairly open and liberal about nudity, they all reached an age where they became very private about their bodies.  I'm sure they have the expectation that they will be around other females when they go into a women's locker room (excepting little boys), and I don't think that's an unfair expectation on their part.  I don't expect a mother to send her young son into a locker room by himself, but I would think by the age of 8 or so that most boys could manage on their own.  Then again, what do I know since I don't have any boys.  That is based on the fact that my dds could manage by themselves at that age.  Also, I wonder how comfortable a 8+ year old boy would be in a women's locker room?  My dds would have been horrified at the thought of going into a men's locker room.  It's an age where kids are trying to be comfortable with their bodies, and I don't want to push them into any situations before they're ready to handle it.

 

I'm sure much of this stems from the fact that we were all raised in the US, and we know people who don't even allow co-ed swimming unless they're covered from shoulders to thighs.

 

eta:  I'm thinking of locker rooms with benches along the wall and no private changing rooms.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Ishki

[Farrar]

I think we don't really know what we think we know when we evaluate a situation. I think we tend to think we're so sure of our impressions of a child but even with face, body, context, emotions, etc. aren't really going to tell you how old that child is. And everyone is inevitably going to be reading into the situation. Someone primed to assume that even a 6 yo can get a thrill from seeing a naked woman is going to interpret a child's reactions through that lens.

[MrsWeasley]

Behavior trumps appearance. I don't mind any prepubescent boy acting appropriately.

[frogger]

I agree. My DS is 10 and has a baby face. If I cropped a photo of just his face, he would look younger. In person, he's over 5ft, 100 lbs, and from behind could be 12 easily. If I were expecting all women or children 4 and under and came out of the showers to see a male child his size, I'd be startled to say the least.

Even my 8 year old is 100lbs. He acts older too so people mistake him for a kid in the 10-12 range.

 

 

The fact he acts older also means he has been using the other locker room for a very long time though.

 

 

None of them have a mustache but that's about all I can say.

Edited January 31, 2016 by frogger

[zoobie]

I have to say, I have never seen a male child in the women's changing room showing joy at the sight of naked women. Unless that naked woman is their mom, and they haven't weaned yet.

Showing joy? Whuck? Who's saying that about children? I don't want to change clothes in front of a gay male who has zero sexual interest in women, and I would never assume anyone would be sexually excited by my body. Privacy isn't about sex.

[8circles]

I can't tell aages by those photos especially being on my phone. They all look like kids and as such wouldn't bother me.

[SKL]

nm

Edited January 31, 2016 by SKL

[poppy]

I feel like this is a trick question?

 

I don't really mind boys in a women's restroom.  It's in gym locker rooms that I find it inappropriate to have older boys.

Anyone who doesn't know the difference probably isn't a gym goer, IME.

[MercyA]

None would bother me, but I believe I'm the only poster who said I'd prefer a dressing area with no curtains, just benches and showers, mixed sex and no age limits. Doesn't bother me a bit, and I'm a fairly modest woman. But it's washing off chlorine, not masturbation.

 

Taryl, you would be okay with being completely unclothed in front of grown men to whom you're not married?

[Ivey]

I don't think any of them would "bother" me, but I would wait for a stall rather than change in the open if any of them were in the change room. If there are only women and baby/toddler boys in the room, I just cover myself with a towel while I change, but I wouldn't want boys this old watching me do even that. Not that most boys would even care, I'd just feel a little awkward. 

 

D, E, and G look 6+ to me, and look old enough to use the men's change room alone, but I would assume that if their mother brought them in the women's, she had a good reason for it. I'm lucky that my son with autism has brothers who are able to help him in the men's room, so this really hasn't been an issue for us. 

 

I'm from Canada and living in the US. 

 

At the pool where my kids took swim lessons when we lived in Canada, sending boys into the men's locker room alone wasn't an issue at all, because the male lifeguards took turns acting as "locker room attendants" while kids' swimming lessons were going on. It was great to know that there was a background-checked university student in there to keep an eye on things.

[Plagefille]

I think many are forgetting an important factor. Many adults may be okay with these boys in the locker room, but what about tweens and teens. My daughter would be very uncomfortable with a boy near her age in there.

[Ailaena]

 

If I was in the locker room and had to change to/from a swimsuit and I saw one of those boys, I would go change in a toilet stall.

 

If I was in the locker room and had to change to/from a swimsuit and I saw literally ANYBODY in the area with me, I would go change in a toilet stall (or curtained area).

 

In fact, it has been only in the last couple of years that I said screw it and will even wear a swimsuit in public again. So one step at a time, people :p

 

Now that I think about it, though, just changing clothes into a gym outfit, or whatever, I could do that on the street corner since I'm relatively certain I could do it without showing too much to the world. Weird. I'm just weird.

[nd293]

None would bother me - Australia.

 

That said, I do expect that boys in the women's change room behave appropriately and / or be guided directly to the shower stall. Change rooms here don't have cubicles apart from the showers. At 5 my son would not have been especially interested in female anatomy. At 8 he would have been curious about the 'differences' and would have found it difficult not to look. (Some women are less discrete than others when changing in an open change room.)

[38carrots]

None would bother me. I'm "other." I have to admit that I'm quite curious why Canada is lumped with "other." Is it because you find our president ugly? (Goes to cry in the corner.)

[Aiden]

I can't judge ages from any of the pictures, but they all would make me uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable with any male over toddlerhood being in the women's locker room, unless the norm in that locker room is to go into private stalls/curtained areas to change. It's not necessarily a sexual thing. It's that the kid is old enough to notice differences, be curious, ask questions, make comments, etc.

 

And I would be uncomfortable for the sake of my daughter--she's 5, and she's just beginning to develop modesty. We're teaching her that she gets to choose who sees her body. She's still ok with mom and dad, and she seems to be ok with other women still, but she's started being careful to ensure that men other than Daddy and boys don't see her undressed--or even in her pajamas, which are perfectly modest pants and shirts. I think that having a boy near her age in the locker room where she was expected to change clothes would confuse and embarrass her.

[frogger]

We have no cubicles for dressing or showering. We have three toilets that have walls but I wouldn't want my daughter to feel the need to change in a toilet stall with a toilet with no lid. I would foresee problems with that.

 

I didn't vote because A) I'm the one who argued in the last thread that it is really hard to tell a child's age from looks alone. My son ages a year every time he gets a haircut. :) and B) though I personally am old enough or callous enough or whatever to not care if a little boy sees me I wouldn't say it's always best for everyone involved; other children, the boys own feelings depending on age and the accepted social norms of all the other children he is with, etc.

 

Honestly, they all look capable of getting dressed themselves though so why?

 

Circumstances matter. We have mentioned cubicles but you know if I ended up with my son without his dad or some trusted person I might be way more concerned about my son's safety in a water park type establishment or public beach. I have always not chosen to get in that circumstance though and if they were ten we would be more likely to build our own cubicle by holding up beach towels then flaunt the rules.

 

Our local public schools though with no cubicles and only other children in the locker room after children's lesson except for an occasional Dad and the life guard or swim instructor is asked by mom to tell them to get out of the shower is in a farely safe situation and besides the one time he came and asked me for help pantless my son has done fine on his own since he was four. I do have brother's with mental disabilities and I'm not saying everyone has to be able to do so at four but I do wonder, why? I would be more understanding of someone in a bind for disregarding a rule but I can't vote because though I might say I wouldn't be uncomfortable but that doesn't mean it is automatically ok.

[Guest]

Taryl, you would be okay with being completely unclothed in front of grown men to whom you're not married?

If the purpose was entirely non-sexual? Yes. I'm very comfortable with nudity in an appropriate context, and me washing down and dressing myself and my kids is not immodest - the purpose has nothing to do with titilation or sexuality. I'm very comfortable with a male OB, nurse, or chiropractor/physical therapist as well and have had great experiences.

 

The attitude of the heart is what is crucial far more than the physical dress, which changes with cultural and social mores. I think in our culture it is slightly scandalous to not mind nudity in certain contexts. I have much bigger issues with clothing and activities whose sole purpose is to induce lust than much larger displays of bodies that are just part of normal life.

 

Just like at the urinals or in barrack showers it's eyes on the wall, you don't go seeking out ogling the bodies of others. It's perfectly doable in a group setting where the expectation is that sexualizing the *normal activity* is the taboo - and boy would I love to make perving out in public over things like breastfeeding or half clothed swimming taboo instead of the nursing mom or swimmer being the one who is supposed to feel some shame. Humph.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[Laura Corin]

None of them would bother me.  UK.

[Ausmumof3]

I do get that privacy not sexuality is the issue for some but then why are you comfortable changing in front of other women?

[MercyA]

I'm not Taryl, but I'm comfortable with the situation she described.

 

In a mixed gender room for the purposes of changing, yes. 

 

I realise you might want to hear from Taryl because of shared world view :)

 

I promise, I am not a shameless hussy in real life! I even follow a modest dressing board on Pinterest, 'cos I like the clothes!

 

Thanks, Sadie! Always good to hear from you.  :)

 

If the purpose was entirely non-sexual? Yes. I'm very comfortable with nudity in an appropriate context, and me washing down and dressing myself and my kids is not immodest - the purpose has nothing to do with titilation or sexuality. I'm very comfortable with a male OB, nurse, or chiropractor/physical therapist as well and have had great experiences.

 

The attitude of the heart is what is crucial far more than the physical dress, which changes with cultural and social mores. I think in our culture it is slightly scandalous to not mind nudity in certain contexts. I have much bigger issues with clothing and activities whose sole purpose is to induce lust than much larger displays of bodies that are just part of normal life.

 

Just like at the urinals or in barrack showers it's eyes on the wall, you don't go seeking out ogling the bodies of others. It's perfectly doable in a group setting where the expectation is that sexualizing the *normal activity* is the taboo - and boy would I love to make perving out in public over things like breastfeeding or half clothed swimming taboo instead of the nursing mom or swimmer being the one who is supposed to feel some shame. Humph.

 

Thanks for your reply, Taryl. I would say, first of all, that seeing an individual medical practitioner in a private room is quite a bit different from being naked in front of random men in what is basically a public setting.

 

The purpose of a unisex changing and shower room may initially be just that, changing and showering, but it would soon turn into more than that for many people. You may think that's not your problem. I believe that Biblically speaking, it is.

 

I'm not a fan of uncovered public breastfeeding or what amounts to lycra underwear as swimwear, either, so I'm guessing I'm included in your "humph."  ;) I doubt we'll have a meeting of minds on this here, so I'll bow out of any further debate.

Edited January 31, 2016 by MercyA

[DawnM]

Wait, what are we talking about?  Full nudity in front of those boys?  Or just a changing area where you could go behind a curtain to get naked?

[SparklyUnicorn]

If they are with their parent/guardian I would not have a problem with it.   But I would expect also that the caregiver keep an eye on the kid.  For example, I would not appreciate a kid sticking his head under a bathroom stall.  I've had this happen with boys AND girls.  I'm sure it's just curiosity and being a kid, but I would not appreciate it.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I do get that privacy not sexuality is the issue for some but then why are you comfortable changing in front of other women?

 

I'm not comfortable changing in front of other women. 

 

(But I also said I don't care if the boys were there.) 

[Bluegoat]

I flagged two, but I would say those were borderline, and also it's hard to say based on photos like that - a lot of other things contribute to the sense of how old someone is, like relative size, behavior, speech, even their clothes.

 

I'm in Canada.

[MEmama]

I'm not comfortable changing in front of other women.

 

(But I also said I don't care if the boys were there.)

Yeah, I assumed the OP meant getting fully changed in front of these boys. I voted no way because I wouldn't get changed in front of anyone. I don't want to see women getting changed, either.

 

That said, if they were just in the room? I would still think it was odd and assume the mother was a helicopter parent unless it was clear there were reasons the boys were there. First impressions and all. But in reality I'd probably be in and out of a room like so fast I wouldn't notice.

Edited January 31, 2016 by MEmama

[Carrie12345]

My kids aren't lesson/competition swimmers, and my gym doesn't have a pool, so I don't imagine this every being an issue my family will need to face.  When we swim in our community pool (no changing area), we drive home to rinse and change. When I go to the gym, I drive home to shower and change. It wouldn't occur to me to see that as a problem or inconvenience b/c it's always been my default.

 

For some reason I can't figure out, I *want to be able to say that none of the scenarios I've read here would bother me, but it's not true.  I don't want to change in front of anybody else, including my own kids at this point.  My kids don't want to change in front of their siblings anymore.  The 8 and 5yos aren't militant about it at this point, but they are beginning to set boundaries for themselves.  My daughters often take to the bathroom to change instead of their shared bedroom.  I don't see any of that as a problem, and I can't imagine their comfort levels would, or should, accommodate a room full of strangers, as the "proper" age and gender OR the "questionable" age and gender.

 

Stalls and/or curtains would change my perspective.  I still take my 5yo to the ladies room at our co-op simply because he isn't strong enough to open the heavy bathroom doors or tall enough to reach the soap.  If that were still an issue for my 8yo, I'd take him, too.  But we only ever see fully clothed people and half naked babies in the ladies room.

[73349]

FYI the boys pictured are as young as 4 and as old as 7. They're getting similar numbers of votes.

[Joker]

We've never used the locker rooms as we all prefer to change and shower at home. Dds are bothered changing or showing their bodies to anyone. They know sometimes they have to with medical professionals but they do not want to with anyone else.

 

In fact, we have to meet with the high school counselor here because PE is mandatory for two semesters and they must swim and shower. I'm of the mind that unless there is a private way dd can do so that she shouldn't have to. I can't get behind the idea that my 13/14 year old should be forced to show her body to anyone she doesn't want to. I also think it's perfectly fine that she is so modest at this stage of her life.

[Dmmetler]

I think many are forgetting an important factor. Many adults may be okay with these boys in the locker room, but what about tweens and teens. My daughter would be very uncomfortable with a boy near her age in there.

I was thinking that, too. None of those boys would bother me-but anyone who looks old enough to not require a daily nap would bother my 11 yr old. A boy she KNOWS...and she'd probably die of embarrassment on the spot. I remember having to change and go through open showers after PE in 7th grade, and that it was basically torture because I was so aware of my body at the time as a late developer. In 20/20 hindsight, I suspect the early developers were just as nervous and found it just as hard.

[Farrar]

FYI the boys pictured are as young as 4 and as old as 7. They're getting similar numbers of votes.

 

Are some of them the same child at different ages? Or brothers? Just curious. The pics are so little so I wasn't sure.