My dd (almost 8) told me she hated me today :(

[Peplophoros]

I kind of expected this later in her life, but she's SEVEN

 

I won't get into all the details, but dd is just sloppy.  Her hair is always a tangled mess, she wears dirty clothes if I let her, and her room is, well, disgusting. Garbage from snacks (which she knows she's not allowed to eat---they are for days when we have co-op, etc. but she steals them anyway), and junk.  Just junk everywhere.  Months and months of showing her how to tidy up, getting rid of unnecessary stuff, and begging and pleading (and dishing out punishment when necessary) has yielded no result whatsoever.  

 

Today I took every shred of matter from her room (which I have told her I would do if she didn't even make the least attempt to pick up--she has ample time for this every single morning, and it's a clearly-stated and expected part of her morning).   She was wailing in the next room when this all went down, then marched in to where I was bagging up her stuff and screamed that she hated me and wished I never had been born.

 

I was calm, and later she seemed contrite (we talked about how being angry is ok, but that those kind of hurtful things can have long-lasting effects on people).   I kept my composure around her, but when I went to bed I was a mess. :(  She's usually such a loving, affectionate little girl.  Am I expecting too much?  I'm generally not an affectionate person, and now I feel like homeschooling is stifling their emotional growth (I know, overreacting, right?).  Am I raising them to hate me?  We generally have a good relationship (other than when it comes to her appearance and her room), but lately I feel like I'm just an ogre around them....5 kids and cranky baby....it's hard to be loving during the day, and I feel like I don't have any more of me to give.  I guess I'm just worried that I'm not loving/patient enough to homeschool everyone through this stage of life when everything's noisy and messy and stressful.

 

I realize there are lots of feelings/behaviors that you all aren't privy to, but I would appreciate it if you would tell me I'm not the only one who has a super-emotional little girl who can say hurtful things. 

[Night Elf]

:grouphug:  One of my dd's said that to me when she was young, though I don't remember the age. She was just angry and wanted to hurt me as much as she thought I was hurting her. We did talk about it rationally when she was calm and she never did it again. I did let her know it upset me a great deal. I didn't hide that at all. I wanted her to learn that's just not something to say to someone.

 

Just as a tip for cleaning her room, I'd help her. She's young. She may not be mature enough to handle such a big job on her own. Do you break it down in small steps? Like tell her to go get the dishes and offer to help her carry them. Then tell her to go pick up the dirty clothes and put them in the hamper, and offer to help her. Give her more time to get used to doing the jobs on her own. Not all kids mature at the same rate.

[PrincessMommy]

:grouphug:

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think you are expecting too much all at once.  Pick on one thing at a time.  KWIM?   You aren't going to get perfection and put together from most 7 year olds.

 

That said, kids and older people get mad and say mean stuff sometimes.  At that moment she hated what you did.  It came out that she hates you.  I doubt she really hates you.  Sometimes I hate what my kids do too.

 

 

[Guest]

I kind of expected this later in her life, but she's SEVEN

 

I won't get into all the details, but dd is just sloppy. Her hair is always a tangled mess, she wears dirty clothes if I let her, and her room is, well, disgusting. Garbage from snacks (which she knows she's not allowed to eat---they are for days when we have co-op, etc. but she steals them anyway), and junk. Just junk everywhere. Months and months of showing her how to tidy up, getting rid of unnecessary stuff, and begging and pleading (and dishing out punishment when necessary) has yielded no result whatsoever.

 

Today I took every shred of matter from her room (which I have told her I would do if she didn't even make the least attempt to pick up--she has ample time for this every single morning, and it's a clearly-stated and expected part of her morning). She was wailing in the next room when this all went down, then marched in to where I was bagging up her stuff and screamed that she hated me and wished I never had been born.

 

I was calm, and later she seemed contrite (we talked about how being angry is ok, but that those kind of hurtful things can have long-lasting effects on people). I kept my composure around her, but when I went to bed I was a mess. :( She's usually such a loving, affectionate little girl. Am I expecting too much? I'm generally not an affectionate person, and now I feel like homeschooling is stifling their emotional growth (I know, overreacting, right?). Am I raising them to hate me? We generally have a good relationship (other than when it comes to her appearance and her room), but lately I feel like I'm just an ogre around them....5 kids and cranky baby....it's hard to be loving during the day, and I feel like I don't have any more of me to give. I guess I'm just worried that I'm not loving/patient enough to homeschool everyone through this stage of life when everything's noisy and messy and stressful.

 

I realize there are lots of feelings/behaviors that you all aren't privy to, but I would appreciate it if you would tell me I'm not the only one who has a super-emotional little girl who can say hurtful things.

Yes you are expecting to much. Taking everything from her room was cruel and unnecessary. It does not surprise me that she reacted the way she did. You said actions can have lasting effects - yes, they can, including yours. Children have a need for ownership of at least a few belongings. Taking it all away is like saying, "You mean so little to me you aren't even worthy of having your stuffed animals (or whatever)." How would you feel if your dh came home and said, "You don't take care of the kitchen, so I'm throwing everything away"?

 

Listen, I like tidy and don't like clutter. None of my kids are as neat as I would like. But I give them ownership over their things. My daughter has lots of stuff that I feel is unnecessary, but for now, it isn't hurting anything if her room is more cluttered than mine would be. When she moves out, I can have her room exactly as I want it.

 

With the messy hair, dirty clothes and snack foods, this sounds like you are not giving her enough personal direction. You need to spend some time in the morning helping her get ready for the day. Pick out clothes, brush hair and teeth. In the evening, same thing and if it's bath night, that too. Do you have meals together? It helps reduce snacking and food trash if the procedure is to eat meals together in the designated eating area.

 

Finally, if you think homeschooling is bad for your life, don't homeschool. If you're going through a rough spot, there are ways to work it out, but if you honestly don't have the energy, don't. Start making plans to have the school-age kids at school.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Plus try to imagine it from her perspective.  She is wondering what she is doing right.  Do you tell her what she does right?  If everything about her to you is wrong and you keep telling her all about the wrong stuff she will constantly feel defeated.  And I've got bad news.  Even my 13 year old is not put together.  I am still reminding him to do a lot of these things.  And he's a sloppy person (so am I frankly).  On the other hand my 9 year old is not so sloppy and needs less reminding.  Some people are just that way.  Not saying don't say anything ever, but give her some positive reinforcement too.  Don't give her a long list of what she is doing wrong.  And she probably won't be able to clean her room to your standards at 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, etc...  Maybe never.  Maybe next year.  Definitely not with you harping constantly. 

 

 

[Guest]

Plus try to imagine it from her perspective. She is wondering what she is doing right. Do you tell her what she does right? If everything about her to you is wrong and you keep telling her all about the wrong stuff she will constantly feel defeated. And I've got bad news. Even my 13 year old is not put together. I am still reminding him to do a lot of these things. And he's a sloppy person (so am I frankly). On the other hand my 9 year old is not so sloppy and needs less reminding. Some people are just that way. Not saying don't say anything ever, but give her some positive reinforcement too. Don't give her a long list of what she is doing wrong. And she probably won't be able to clean her room to your standards at 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, etc... Maybe never. Maybe next year. Definitely not with you harping constantly.

Even my 52-year-old (DH).

 

I just cleaned out my car yesterday and each child's seat area (one is an adult now!) had wrappers stuffed in the little niches. Cupcake wrapper. Hershey's kiss foil. A lone Skittle. Granola bar wrappers. Arrrrggg!

[plansrme]

I think it's easy for parents to expect too much of an older girl (maybe boys, too, but I see it most often with girls).  Maybe you are expecting too much, maybe not; it's hard to see from here.  But, I often see parents take an older responsible, mature-for-her-years girl and treat her like a third parent.  I don't think it is healthy for anyone involved.  Maybe that's some of what is going on here--you expect so much more from her because she's older than your littles and a girl, and I'll bet she's mature and independent for her age.  Besides, girls are supposed to be mature, etc.  Maybe try backing up a bit and taking away some of the responsibilities you have given her, such as picking out her own clothes or doing her own hair.  Do things for her for a while as you would if she were younger, not as punishment but as, "Hey, I'll do this for you for a while."  Start her bath; sit down on the floor and play with her, just her, in something non-competitive (no CandyLand, for instance); fill up her attention cup.  Just serve her for a bit.  Sharpen her pencils, straighten her desk.  Just look for ways to do stuff for her so she doesn't feel like she's running the show.  (I did this once with my oldest when she was about 5; I'm not just pulling this out of the air.)

 

You're going to get beaten up or feel like it on this thread--fair warning.  And you probably don't deserve that.  You'll all be fine, eventually!  But if you're over-the-top stressed, maybe you could get a sub to come in and run school for a couple of days.  I am a big fan of substitute teachers even if they just watch movies with the students.  

[amo_mea_filiis.]

My 10 year old says worse daily. I was a "dammit" when he was 3. It sucks. Hugs.

 

Is her room organized in a way that she can manage it?

 

I went through my daughter's room one day and boxed most stuff up and put it in the shed. She knew I didn't throw anything out, and she's also been fine without the stuff. We'll be going through everything closer to summer and getting rid of a lot.

 

I did my daughter's hair until almost 14! Even now, she sometimes asks for help.

 

Both of mine leave a steam of crap wherever they go. They're slobs. We're working on it.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Even my 52-year-old (DH).

 

I just cleaned out my car yesterday and each child's seat area (one is an adult now!) had wrappers stuffed in the little niches. Cupcake wrapper. Hershey's kiss foil. A lone Skittle. Granola bar wrappers. Arrrrggg!

 

Oh the car.  Since I got a new car I don't allow anything in my car anymore.  I'm sure that'll eventually wear off.  But my old car?  One of mine said it's so messy why don't I clean it.  I'm like YOU are the one making the mess!  I don't eat and drink while I'm driving!!  OY

[8circles]

I think you are expecting too much. Sorry it was a horrible day though :(

 

You may need to work on these tasks with her side-by-side. Plait her hair, so it doesn't get messy. She may need you to do this for her. Help her check her room daily for mess and clean it up - maybe just before bed.

 

Think about why she is 'stealing' the snacks. If you really don't want her eating them, don't buy them.

 

Don't beg and plead, that won't help. Punishment won't help either. She need you to help her develop good habits. Help her with everything and pick one habit to work on...it can be as simple as bringing you her brush and a hair elastic after breakfast, so you can do her hair. When one habit is established, start another.

 

Seven year olds need quite a bit of scaffolding re self care and room care.

Yes to all of this.

[Plink]

Kids say stuff. I've heard that before, and our relationship survived.

 

That said, I'd use this as an indicator that it is time to do a self-check.

 

Are you expecting results but not taking the time EVERY DAY to work beside her? 7/8yos need constant interaction. - You make the bed while I take the laundry out of your room. You brush your hair and I'll braid it before bed. You find 5 pieces of garbage in your room while I put these dolls on the shelf. They might know what to do, but they are easily overwhelmed by long term tasks. Mom's job is to be their frontal lobe until theirs s developed enough to take over.

 

Don't expect what you won't inspect: http://www.libertyhillhouse.com/2013/05/29/dont-expect-what-you-wont-inspect/

[AimeeM]

*gently*

She may not be able to handle these life skills on her own yet. Some 7 year olds aren't. My 13 year old daughter still needs to be walked through the steps of cleaning her room; organization just doesn't come naturally to her. I fought with her for years over it, but things are so much better now that I've realized she just. needs. help. 

This applies to personal hygiene as well; at 7 she may still need you to wash her hair, remind her to change, shower, etc. 

[Peplophoros]

I think it's easy for parents to expect too much of an older girl (maybe boys, too, but I see it most often with girls).  Maybe you are expecting too much, maybe not; it's hard to see from here.  But, I often see parents take an older responsible, mature-for-her-years girl and treat her like a third parent.  I don't think it is healthy for anyone involved.  Maybe that's some of what is going on here--you expect so much more from her because she's older than your littles and a girl, and I'll bet she's mature and independent for her age.  Besides, girls are supposed to be mature, etc.  Maybe try backing up a bit and taking away some of the responsibilities you have given her, such as picking out her own clothes or doing her own hair.  Do things for her for a while as you would if she were younger, not as punishment but as, "Hey, I'll do this for you for a while."  Start her bath; sit down on the floor and play with her, just her, in something non-competitive (no CandyLand, for instance); fill up her attention cup.  Just serve her for a bit.  Sharpen her pencils, straighten her desk.  Just look for ways to do stuff for her so she doesn't feel like she's running the show.  (I did this once with my oldest when she was about 5; I'm not just pulling this out of the air.)

 

You're going to get beaten up or feel like it on this thread--fair warning.  And you probably don't deserve that.  You'll all be fine, eventually!  But if you're over-the-top stressed, maybe you could get a sub to come in and run school for a couple of days.  I am a big fan of substitute teachers even if they just watch movies with the students.  

 

Thanks for this, and for not jumping to conclusions.  I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

For the advice to prepare my kids for PS, what can I say, Quill, you sound like real a gem.  

[fairfarmhand]

I had that child.

 

Yes, for some kids, that is not out of the ordinary.

 

Please read the Explosive child to help you understand how to handle the emotional melt downs. I had my dd say the same kinds of things to me and yes it was hurtful. But she grew out of it.

 

Yes it is normal for kids to not want to bathe or comb their hair or clean their rooms. You will have to stay on top of that for years! (I know, I am sorry, but that;s what moms are for)

 

So...Here's what you do. Start cheerfully insisting on a daily hygiene regimen. Clean clothes, combed hair, washed face, brushed teeth before anything else happens. Make it part of the routine and keep in mind that you will probably have to remind her to do this all the time. Just stay positive when she moans and groans about it. Get her a low maintenance hair cut or if she insists on long hair, keep it tied back in braids all the time.

 

Next, her room...Most of us moms have had trash bag melt downs in our kids' rooms. It's okay. We all mess up.

 

Generally, keeping the amount of "stuff" in a kids' room low is somewhat helpful. When I had infants and toddlers, I banned all toys with a million tiny pieces because I couldn't handle that. Every afternoon, you will need to clean up WITH her. If the two of you do this every day, it shouldn't get too terrible.

 

Room cleaning is one of those things like hygiene that will take years for her to do independently.

 

You are totally overwhelmed with your houseful of littles. I get that. But please keep back a small bit of patience for this little girl. Seven (almost 8) is still very small and she probably wants a little more of momma than she may be getting.

 

If you can accept the fact that her messiness, and lack of hygiene, and emotionalness is somewhat normal, you can approach these things with a much more cheerful attitude. Try to come alongside her and help her please you. I was way too hard on my oldest and I know she probably felt like all I did was complain and nag and gripe. (when I was pregnant and nursing that was probably most of what I did do. I'm a very grumpy person when I don't get sleep) I wish someone had told me that if I could spare some energy to work alongside my girl and be positive with her, I would have actually had my load lessened because I wouldn't have been dealing with the attitude that comes with my own too-high expectations.

 

So, to recap..

 

Daily hygiene routine

Work alongside her and show her how things are done.

Help her be successful

Be cheerful and kind.

 

[plansrme]

As I think about this a little more, I have thought of another couple of things we did that might help (and of one thing I did that did not help and that I regret).  First, we took away decision-making responsibilities as well.  None of this, "Do you want the blue plate or the white plate?"  "What subject do you want to do first?"  I very gently, and not punitively, because it was truly not punishment, just took away her everyday choices for a while.  It soothed her heart or something; I don't know what, but it calmed her.  It was part of treating her like a kid, I suppose?  I don't know, really, but it helped.  One thing I think I did inadvertently that I wish I hadn't was discourage her from complaining or yelling at me.  I had one kid who was much more emotive, who complained about everything there for a while.  And I would scold that kid, but this kid took instructions to the other children and acted like they were instructions to her.  I wanted my oldest (still want my oldest) to talk to me, to express more emotion, even anger.  But I really feel like she took my instructions to my other kid--the one who, at the time, never had an unexpressed thought--as if they were directed at her as well.  Anyway, I say all that to suggest that you maybe don't want to discourage her from saying what she feels even if it hurts your feelings.  You can take care of your feelings for a while; let her express what she needs to say.  (On the other hand, I don't think it's wrong to let kids know you're angry with them or hurt; I just try not to punish them for making me angry or hurt.  They can be disciplined for the underlying behavior but not because my feelings are hurt.  Possibly that doesn't make much sense; sorry!)  

[Epicurean]

It sounds like you're feeling really overwhelmed (understatement of the year, I know!). Is there any way you can afford to have a housekeeper come in once a week so you don't have so much on your plate? Or get a Mother's Helper from a nearby family?

[luuknam]

My 7.5yo said "I hate you" to me earlier this year, and I didn't really care, to be honest. It's pretty normal for kids to say stuff like that while angry, so I didn't take it personally. I suggest you don't take it personally either.

[Lolly]

My general response to that comment is, "Oh good! I am doing my job right."  Kids say things in the heat of anger. Don't take it personally.

 

As to whether or not you are expecting too much, I have no idea. I've had 7 yos who could handle your expectations without a problem. I've had others who could not. Only you can decide if she is truly capable of what you are asking. It is okay to step back and reevaluate. I can tell you that I expected too much from my eldest from the second the next were born. She was suddenly so old an capable of so much. Only she was still just a babe herself. And, she really couldn't. Unfortunately, I didn't realize that for a long time. End result, she learned things very early and is an overachieving perfectionist who stresses about a lot of things that she shouldn't. Or, maybe that was just her personality from the get to. It probably was. I'm sure I didn't help with that though! Relax a little on yourself, and maybe a little on her too. Or, keep the expectations and try to make sure to have smaller follow throughs on smaller tasks instead of when it turns into a mountain. Hard to do when you have 5 littles to keep up with!

[Just Kate]

First, a big hug for you.  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I also have a 7 year old dd (who will be turning 8 later in the summer) and dh and I always joke that she can go from 0-60 in 10 seconds flat! Yes, she has told me she hates me. She has also screamed at me and stomped her foot at me. I don't like it at all, but I remain calm and give her the opportunity to calm down as well. She has always apologized (on her own) for her words and we have had many discussions on how words hurt. And I totally understand where you're coming from about the messiness. My dd is also my messy child! She can not keep her room clean, she constantly has food all over her face, and she gets knots in her hair regularly (due to her hair texture and also due to the fact that she hates to brush her hair!).

 

Here is what I've done...

 

For the messy room, I've lowered my expectations big time. I also work with her to clean her room once every two weeks or so. I will admit that I've gone in and "cleaned" on my own a few times (removing toys that don't have a home or are just junky). Sadly, she rarely misses these things! I am also a messy person, so I figure that, like me, staying neat is just something that dd will have to work hard at. It certainly doesn't come naturally to me and I can't imagine it will to her either.

 

For the hair, we have started braiding it each night before bed, which really helps with tangles. I also comb through it each day with a wide tooth comb. Dd has a very tender head and she hated this at first. But since she wants to have long hair, I have told her that if she won't let me comb through it we will have to cut it off shorter. I also apply conditioner to her hair for her when she showers, as I determined that the kids shampoo/conditioner combo that she was using alone just wasn't cutting it. I purchased Aussie 3 Minute Miracle conditioner and we apply it every few days, which has seemed to help quite a bit.

 

I wouldn't get so worried about your dd saying she hates you, but I would just keep talking to her so that she can learn to control her outbursts as she gets older. I think she sounds like a very normal little girl. I'd just keep doing what you're doing.

[AimeeM]

 

 

For the advice to prepare my kids for PS, what can I say, Quill, you sound like real a gem.  

Is that sarcasm? You did say that you wonder if homeschooling is stifling their emotional growth; I think Quill took from that what I did - do you feel like you can homeschool and keep positive relationships with your kids? It sounded like you were questioning it yourself.

In general, this isn't a board that always recommends homeschooling, or believes that homeschooling is always better than public or private school. 

[Pronghorn]

My seven-year-old screamed that she hated me in the gym at our coop. Yes, in front of whoever happened to be there. When they melt down, their verbal skills decline dramatically and they may express themselves in nasty ways. She did not really hate me.

[itsheresomewhere]

If I may recommend for her hair- get a wet brush.

[AK_Mom4]

Hang in there OP.  You lost your temper, you were a jerk and took away all her "stuff".  She reacted by saying the "worst" thing she could think of.

 

Sounds like both of you are perfectly normal human beings.  We get tired, things get messy, it's hard to keep it all together.

 

I raised this kid.  She's 21 now and a fine young lady and still functions best in a state of refined disorganization.  I lost my temper and said things I shouldn't have - she lost her temper and did the same thing.  It's all ok now.

 

The advice to step back and treat her as though she were younger for a while is good.  She probably does need more attention and hand-holding now.  And I get it that it's tough with littler ones - you just want her to step up and do SOMETHING for herself to give you a break.  She feels that as pushing away - try stepping in and pulling her closer for a while.  Or see if your DH can step up for this one kid for a while while you deal with cranky baby.

 

:grouphug:  

[Shellydon]

2 of my kids still need me in the room to help them clean it.  We do it every single night. I would be more worried about the stealing snacks that you have told her she is not allowed to have.    I have taken many items out of my kids' rooms if they refuse to pick up even with my help and direction.  If you refuse to pick up, then I confiscate the toy(s) for a time.

[SKL]

My bullet thoughts.

• It is not too early for hormones to begin.
• Could you be reacting to hormones, sugar, illness, exhaustion?  These things can make our reactions unreasonable.
• I agree with scaffolding mentioned above.
• I agree with pointing out what she does right.
• It helps when I tell my daughters we are a team and need to work together to have a nice house.
• I have learned to be satisfied with incremental improvement; a day when the room doesn't get more messy is a good day at this age.
• Once or twice I removed all my kids toys from her bedroom because of a serious infraction (not messiness).  I'm not sure it did any good.
• If it makes you feel any better, my kid, when she gets into a spiral (not often, thankfully), says she wishes she wasn't alive.  :(  Kids are capable of some pretty strong emotions and words.

[SKL]

As for the hoarding, I had this problem with one of mine too.  She has a problem with sugar and I try to involve her in the battle against this problem.  On one hand we don't want her to get addicted (again).  On the other hand, we don't want to focus on deprivation, which only causes more problems.  My suggestions:  talk to her about why it's best for her to limit snacks.  Get some enjoyable snacks that she is allowed to have and provide a place where she is allowed to eat them.  Don't get upset when she reverts, just redirect, and reaffirm that you love her no matter what and want to team with her on keeping her healthy and happy.  Give it time.

[zoobie]

A cranky baby and no sleep always push me over the edge. :grouphug:

 

I agree with everyone else that you're expecting too much of her. Does she have ADHD? Even if no, organizing and hygiene 100% independently would make for a very unique 7 year old.

 

Clearing everything out of her room as punishment would elicit that type of response from most children. You can apologize and use it as a way to help her return only what she really loves and organize things. Then you go through at bedtime and help her put things in their places.

 

I'm totally with you on food in the room. You say she sneaks it from co-op? Check her bag at the door. Put her items away with her and put food in an appropriate place.

 

You sound very stressed. If you are, she is too. If there's ADHD or anxiety or even OCD (hoarding?) at play, those behaviors ramp up under stress. :grouphug:

[lllll]

..

[Word Nerd]

It sounds like she needs more hands-on direction. I'd stop focusing on what you think she should be able to do at this age and focus on helping her develop those skills. I can definitely relate to your post, as my 9YO DD still needs quite a bit of hands-on parenting in those areas, though she's been getting much better with grooming and clothing neatness in the last year. However, her bedroom goes right back to being a disaster area rather quickly if I don't keep on top of it, give her explicit instructions, and help her on a regular basis. Neither of us likes it when I have to micromanage her, but I'll keep doing it until she can handle more responsibility on her own. It'll take as long as it takes. Just keep working with her and showing her what to do and how to do it. I'd give her an opportunity to earn back her things, and I'd also look for ways to praise her. If all she ever hears is criticism (not saying that's necessarily the case here), it would definitely affect her attitude toward you.

[fairfarmhand]

pssst...If you aren't already figuring out a self-care routine, now is the time to think about it. Fatigue and stress will make it much harder for you to handle age appropriate behaviors.

 

Work with your dh to figure something out, whether you go to bed way early with the babe and he puts bigger kids to bed, or he helps with a homeschooling lesson in the evening so you can take a nap with the littles in the middle of the afternoon.

 

I'm reading lots of "mommy is so tired" in your post. And you are allowed to be tired. It really is okay to admit that you can't homeschool, have an immaculate house, cook from scratch, teach at co-op, etc.

[mom2bee]

I only read the OP and just wanted to chime in and say that the fact that your daughter even felt comfortable enough to say "I Hate You" to you tells me that you have a good relationship with her. I know a lot of kids who would NEVER say that to their parents--not because they don't feel it, but because it isn't acceptable or even safe to express it.

 

I know many kids who refrain from saying negative things to or arguing with their parents out of fear. It isn't respect or love that makes them stay quiet, its fear, plain and simple. Your daughter doesn't fear you. She doesn't feel so restricted that she can never have a moment where she shows you her true feelings. That out-burst was just her showing you her feelings. It was hurtful to you, because it was a hurtful feeling that she shared, but its how she expressed that feeling to you.

 

I'm sorry that that happened. It sounds like you are fighting the same battle that parents everywhere fight of showing tough love and following through on warnings. She is going to learn and grow from this experience (and the next 1000 times that you have to repeat it. Because you should expect to have to repeat it.)  But I want you to focus on this very important fact: Your daughter has demonstrated that she can share her feelings with you. That is a part of the bond that you want to nurture.

 

I know your feelings were hurt--that is a hard thing to hear :grouphug: but try and think about all the times she has expressed her positive feelings towards you. I'm betting there were 100 times as many positive outbursts as there were negative. That says a lot. Your daughter has shown you that she can share her feelings with you--and not just the "approved of" feelings, but all of her feelings. You must be doing a great job there mom.

 

Of course, 7 is the age where you can really start teaching and coaching kids to share their feelings without attacking others emotions. This is the age where she can understand other peoples feelings and perceptions, you don't want to hide from her that her words hurt you--you address it, you teach her the correct way to handle and express her feelings. And by doing this you become an even safer person to share her emotions with, because you aren't on the counter-attack.

 

People speak in extremes, but its just one way to communicate and usually we don't think much of it. When your kids says "I love you" it doesn't mean less than the times that they tell you"I love you to the moon and back" or "I love you more than anything mom" or "I'm glad your my mom, I love you so much." does it? Because its the sentiment--the expression itself--that counts.

 

There is a video on Positive Discipline that I like on YouTube in which the lecturer (a Montessori teacher or teacher-trainer) says that she took her children saying "I hate you" as a sign that she was going a good job parenting them because it was her job to be the mom, to teach them, the train them, to discipline them and in order to do her job, she had to do things that the kids didn't like or always approve of. So you are definitely not the only one.

 

:grouphug:

[Lang Syne Boardie]

 

 

For the advice to prepare my kids for PS, what can I say, Quill, you sound like real a gem.  

 

Foul ball.

 

You ended your original post by wondering if you really should homeschool. Quill's answer is that if you are looking at yourself honestly and finding that you lack patience and/or time to homeschool, you don't have to homeschool. Nobody does. You have the option of preparing your children to enter brick and mortar school in the fall.

 

You are the only one who knows if you need to take that option. We can't peer into your home and say, "My God, this woman should not be homeschooling," OR "Why is she so hard on herself, it's one bad day, she's doing fine." All we can do is read the fatigue in your words and reassure you that you can do whatever your family needs, whether it's more rest and support for you, more information about child development to give you some patience with dd, utilizing public school for a year or two until cranky baby gets a little bigger...

 

The choices are yours. Support can definitely be found here, no matter what you choose, but we're more likely to genuinely attempt to encourage you if we're not met with comments like this in reply.

[Mom22ns]

My general response to that comment is, "Oh good! I am doing my job right."  Kids say things in the heat of anger. Don't take it personally.

 

As to whether or not you are expecting too much, I have no idea. I've had 7 yos who could handle your expectations without a problem. I've had others who could not. Only you can decide if she is truly capable of what you are asking. It is okay to step back and reevaluate.

 

I've responded this way to the same statement.

 

Expectations are hard. Are you expecting to much? Since she is consistently failing to meet the expectations, the answer is yes. There are many 7 year olds that can do what you're asking, I had one. There are many who can't, I had one of those too :). But if you are putting your child in a position where she will fail to meet your expectations every day, and encouraging, reminding, nagging, and punishing have all failed, you are expecting too much. She should be able to succeed in meeting your expectations most of the time. That is the only way either one of you will have peace.

 

Change your expectations. Start over. Help her with EVERYTHING you are expecting and she is failing in right now. Then gradually reduce support in one area at a time until she has it mastered, then move on to the next. It may be that she can't master some areas and you have to pause on those with some support still in place and try a different area. Go slow. Be gentle. Let her feel successful and loved again.

 

You'll be ok and so will she.  :grouphug:

[fraidycat]

My kids "hate" me when I'm in *mom mode*, too. It's normal. At 9 and 12, they've pretty much grown out of it. I don't take it personally - it's just their immature way if expressing anger or disappointment at not getting their way. I just tell them "I love you." After they calm down, have a talk about the language and give them more appropriate responses to use for the next time, because there's always a next time - we all get angry or disappointed. Then keep reminding when they forget and revert to the easy way. "We talked about this - why are you feeling angry? Are you feeling disappointed? Tell me what exactly is frustrating you." Hopefully by adulthood, they will be able to express their real feelings - many (most?) adults never learn how to do this.

 

That said, my 12 year old DD still needs me to "walk her through" cleaning her room step by step. I give her one task at a time. Pick up garbage. Pick up dirty laundry. Make bed. Etc. she also has a sensitive scalp and super thick hair - I'm still in charge of washing and combing her hair because she avoids it - it's painful to her. We keep it in a short bob so it's easier for both of us to deal with. I still need to nag her into the shower most of the time - she is getting better about that though. I'm hoping by about 16, she'll be hygienically independent.

 

I can't help you on the stealing of food - I just don't have it in the house if I don't want them to eat it. I buy it on the way to the event, or have DH pick it up the night before if we need it.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Good luck! I wish kids came with an instruction manual!

[Brit29]

If she can't keep her room clean, maybe she just has too much stuff. I'm in my 20s and live a minimalist life because I flat out won't keep my stuff organized. Well, not won't...can't I guess. I'm totally that person who doesn't even see if there is dirt on my clothes or if my hair is a mess. I have to consciously think to check these things before I leave the house.

 

I have a real issue with a 7 year old "stealing" food in her own home. Either don't buy the food or expect her to want to eat food from her kitchen. If neither of those is an option, discuss what the food is for and allow for some freedom. Alternatively, allow her to buy some healthy snacks with her own money, that she's free to eat on non-coop days. 

 

 

[Guest]

I'm sorry, that stings doesn't it? My six year old is the one most likely to brandish that particular insult right about now. She always folds after she has cooled off and been corrected, thankfully, but I've had to just let it roll off my back in the heat of the moment.

[alisoncooks]

OP - I can totally understand the frustration that leads to bagging it all up. I've been there! My oldest is messy and likes to "hoard" wrappers, string, rocks...pretty much anything. It totally clashes with my need for order (and I'm not that much of a neat freak.)

 

This child of mine (almost 9) doesn't have the skills to clean her whole room independently. She needs guidance -- we have given her specific places store everything (cute storage box systems). I have her clean small sections -- I use a jump rope to give a section to clean. When that's done, we move on to another spot.

 

I also agree with having too much stuff. My kids do, and they are very resistant to getting rid of stuff. I haven't found a solution to this.

[Arcadia]

My oldest had say I hate you/other people and I hate (something) when he was younger. It is an emotional outburst and he is my more intense child. Your daughter is seven, "hate" tend to be a catch all word for "dislike", "annoyed", "do not want to ...". My older actually hates bathing (mild sensory to water, took him a long time to learn swimming) and had a phobia of public toilets. Find out why she prefers dirty clothes and mess. Maybe she has favorite clothes that she doesn't want to change out off.

 

I just cleaned out my car yesterday and each child's seat area (one is an adult now!) had wrappers stuffed in the little niches. Cupcake wrapper. Hershey's kiss foil. A lone Skittle. Granola bar wrappers. Arrrrggg!

I threatened to charge car cleaning bills to my kids allowance :lol:

[momacacia]

I love a decluttered home and room. I can keep my home that way, but there's only so much energy I'm willing to put into the girls' room. I finally decided that maintaining my relationship with them was more important than them having a consistently tidy room or even developing the wonderful habits of tidiness in their rooms. I still try to maintain it on a micro level with their school work. I'm just not going to follow them into their room all the time and harp on every piece of stuff they have. And I got tired of yelling at them. They will likely be the same way at 14 as at 7 or 10. And those kids with the messy rooms (I have SILs like this) end up with adorably decorated and tidy houses when they grow up.

 

I think some people (my mom and firstborn) also feel more "secure" with stuff around them. My oldest's bed is a literal nest of blankets, pillows, a few dolls and her books. It's not horrible, but it would drive me nuts. They like to have things out on counters and in all the shelves and are not bothered by the clutter. They just don't see it. THey need a lot of help if we want them to see it. I was like that at their age and older. Now, I'm a visual minimalist and would love a clutter-free home, which would require getting rid of the kids. Lol. It's just another way that our relationship, not our stuff, is the most important thing. Preaching to myself, too.

[SKL]

My younger 8yo is also a "more is more" kind of person, while I am a "less is more" type.  She drives me nuts.  But if I threaten to remove her piles and piles of stuff, she views it like some sort of injury.  Usually I find a balance, but right now I'm not thrilled with her room.  She has decided that her desk top is to be used for a corral of her many toy horses, and the dolls that ride the horses must be kept next to that.  Ugh.  We have a place for that stuff, in a bigger room where it doesn't stand out so much.  I need to find a compromise with her but I haven't had time/energy to deal with it recently.  There are higher things on my priority list.

 

My kids have too much stuff for their space also.  That isn't their fault.  We're doing a remodel that will give them much more space, so right now I'm holding off on making a big stink about stuff that will resolve itself soon.

[LibraryLover]

I have a couple of very sensitive children. When I tried to help w/the bedroom of one, encouraging some things to be tossed/donated/recycled, I was met with a very hurt child who softly said, "You're trying to give away pieces of my childhood."  Maybe that sounds dramatic, but it was said seriously, and since the dc was so young, it was not for affect. Some children can't manage to purge. Child is a tidy young adult today.

 

I don't know how dc might have reacted to me purging everything at that time. Some kids really are extra sensitive.

 

7 is still very young, and your child may need much more support to keep things in order. Don't berate yourself. Have a heart-to-heart, and brainstorm together ways you can help. I agree with plaiting/braiding her hair. My youngest child (not same dc as above) has always had long hair, and it was curly to boot.  We had to braid every night to keep it from becoming a nest in back.  Also, Wet Brush. Works like a charm.

 

Find the good in her, acknowledge it, set aside time to be together, chat warmly as your help her pick out  clean clothing, comb hair, tidy up her room together at night, in the morning. Be mindful of her treasures. Don't take a stress melt down personally. It is personal, but we all lose it at times-- even 7 year olds.

[Anne in CA]

My biggest rant can be about the amount of stuff modern American kids own. How can most of them be expected to take care of it without years of training? It is ridiculous if you think about it. And once they have the stuff, they are going to feel like they should keep it, even when they don't take care of it. There are some kids who manage to take care of a lot of stuff, those born organizational geniuses, who make even adults look bad, but that doesn't mean kids who aren't there yet are bad. 

 

Honestly, unless you can take five minutes every mid day and five minutes every night to keep the room clean you are probably going to have to do a big overhaul every couple of months and get rid of stuff. You are not being cruel to do it if you need to. I understand that to the child it feels like you are cutting their heart, but allowing them to place too much importance on junk is not healthy for them. Two of my children liked to save candy wrappers. They would mix their candy wrappers in with loose change, Barbie accessories, ect so that I wouldn't come in their rooms and throw them away. 

 

Also, really short hair may be needed for a girl who won't let you groom it, or groom it herself. It is not wrong to make them cut it if caring for it is not something they are willing to do.

 

I know the world ends on the board when someone mentions limiting food in any way, but I would make her do chores for "stolen" snacks, and I would consider keeping prepackaged snacks in the trunk of the car and keeping them locked up so you have them when you need them. Junk food is just too tempting for some kids and for every family that has no problem with their kids sneaking junk food, there is another family that is inviting a pest problem because of kids squirreling it away. The companies that make prepacked food spend a LOT of money to make it appealing/ addicting, ect. There is nothing wrong with keeping some for convenience, but if that isn't the way you eat most of the time I would remove the temptation completely. 

 

She sounds like a great kid who needs some time to grow into impulse control. You sound like a mom who cares about her. Try to enjoy her the way she is, while helping her be the person she is going to become.

[Kiara.I]

I kind of expected this later in her life, but she's SEVEN

 

I've only read the first few answers so far so maybe you add more later, but...

 

It's taken her UNTIL NOW to say that she hates you????  You're right!  She's an amazingly loving little girl!

 

I've heard "I hate you" sporadically from both kids starting about 2 years after they can speak (the youngest doesn't speak that well yet.)  I just mentally translate it as "I'm angry you're setting a boundary."

[MomatHWTK]

My 11 y.o. can just in the last year take care of her long hair and somewhat keep her room clean.  At 7, a request like that would have met with uncontrollable weeping for hours.  The child feels the weight of the task PLUS the fear of parental disapproval when they fail.  This is a heavy burden.  Being punished for failure, the child is going to want to hate the person who does so to take away the pain of feeling like they've failed someone they love. 

 

 

As other of mentioned, no one can see into your house or life, but from what you have described the whole psychology of the situation is off.  If you as the parent know there are areas in which you are lacking (affection) and know that you are overtired and stressed, then it is up to you as the parent to make sure those conditions don't negatively affect your children.  It is not up to the child to accomodate your needs.  You can teach them about your limitations- "Don't ask mommy for anything before she's had her coffee." You can explain to them that you love them deeply even though you don't hug a lot.  But you cannot expect young children to adapt to a stressful situation without feeling the consequences. 

 

Talk to your children gently and lovingly when you aren't in the midst of stress.  Allow them to say what they are feeling and how they interpret your actions without responding negatively and make sure that you aren't unwittingly undoing your own good efforts as a parent. 

 

 

 

ETA:  This is solely my issue, but I've really never forgiven my mom for cutting my hair short as a child.  But, it was cut so short that I was mistaken for a boy.  So- if you cut it, make sure it is still GIRLY!!!

[gardenmom5]

:grouphug:

 

1ds started when he was four.   yelling "you're not my mom". etc.  don't bother with the pop-psych "I'm sorry you're angry with mommy - but I still love you" garbage as that's all it is.  I tried versions of that for six months.

 

I finally said "fine, I'm not your mom".  I calmly listed all the things I no longer had to do for him. and went back to working on dinner.  he stared at me for a good 30 minutes.  then he came up to me and asked for something.  calmly - "no, I'm not your mom, and I won't be until you apologize".  and went back to what I was doing.  he promptly did so and NEVER said anything like that again.

 

Incidentally, we have a very close relationship now.

 

and yes - I think you're expectations of her completely caring for her room is too high.  some kids can, most can't at this age.  start by simplifying things.  give her an in order list she can follow to help her so she can learn basic steps.  then do it with her for as many weeks as it takes for her to be on top of things.  if you will even only do it with her a few days a week (i.e. put away laundry, dirty clothes in the laundry, etc.) it shouldn't take long.  she can hang up her coat and put her shoes in her closet.

[foxbridgeacademy]

What Sadie said.  Yes, you're probably expecting too much, but that's an easy fix. For the clean clothes, I'd help her lay them out at night before bed.  When she comes in in the morning remind her that she has clean clothes already laid out so please go change, and bring the brush and a hair band back with her.  I gave up on the clean room years ago it is often a losing battle, one I've totally given up on. Pick one thing to work on and focus on that one thing until good habits have been established. Many children say that they hate their parents, when DD said it I always responded, "yes, but I love you" she got tired of not getting a response and only ever said it a couple times.  

[Laurie4b]

I kind of expected this later in her life, but she's SEVEN

 

I won't get into all the details, but dd is just sloppy.  Her hair is always a tangled mess, she wears dirty clothes if I let her, and her room is, well, disgusting. Garbage from snacks (which she knows she's not allowed to eat---they are for days when we have co-op, etc. but she steals them anyway), and junk.  Just junk everywhere.  Months and months of showing her how to tidy up, getting rid of unnecessary stuff, and begging and pleading (and dishing out punishment when necessary) has yielded no result whatsoever.  

 

Today I took every shred of matter from her room (which I have told her I would do if she didn't even make the least attempt to pick up--she has ample time for this every single morning, and it's a clearly-stated and expected part of her morning).   She was wailing in the next room when this all went down, then marched in to where I was bagging up her stuff and screamed that she hated me and wished I never had been born.

 

I was calm, and later she seemed contrite (we talked about how being angry is ok, but that those kind of hurtful things can have long-lasting effects on people).   I kept my composure around her, but when I went to bed I was a mess. :(  She's usually such a loving, affectionate little girl.  Am I expecting too much?  I'm generally not an affectionate person, and now I feel like homeschooling is stifling their emotional growth (I know, overreacting, right?).  Am I raising them to hate me?  We generally have a good relationship (other than when it comes to her appearance and her room), but lately I feel like I'm just an ogre around them....5 kids and cranky baby....it's hard to be loving during the day, and I feel like I don't have any more of me to give.  I guess I'm just worried that I'm not loving/patient enough to homeschool everyone through this stage of life when everything's noisy and messy and stressful.

 

I realize there are lots of feelings/behaviors that you all aren't privy to, but I would appreciate it if you would tell me I'm not the only one who has a super-emotional little girl who can say hurtful things. 

 

When I was in children's mental health, I noticed a correlation between families in which children eating food without permission was labeled "stealing", a child who repeatedly did it, and a child who seemed to feel a need for more parental nurturing. IOW, food was a metaphor for nurturance/affection. Parents felt used up, like there wasn't more to give. Kids felt a dearth.

 

You've received a lot of good advice on this thread: to back down on expectations, to work together on what you want from her (clean together, do her grooming together, etc.) but I wanted to add that you might want to think about whether you can increase your overt affection and positive comments toward her.

 

Also, you sound understandably overwhelmed and stressed. If there is any possibility of getting some outside relief (babysitter, mother's helper, housekeeper) whether paid or from a friend, that might help everyone.

 

[SKL]

My youngest had beautiful long hair until last summer (age 7).  She wasn't even close to being able to take care of it herself, and she didn't love other people combing it either.  It got tangled so easily that it had to be in a braid all the time, day and night.  It was just no fun.  I sort of gently nudged her toward the decision to have it cut.  I let her decide, and I let her pick the new haircut.  We donated her hair.  She knows it will grow back when she is ready to take care of it.  Now she can wash and comb it (though I usually help her to save time).  It still isn't perfect by any means, but at least it isn't impossible for her to deal with.

 

My eldest was more of an early bloomer with the self care stuff.  Lucky me.  It wasn't anything I did as a mother that made her that way.

[SKL]

I don't think my kids have said "I hate you" so far, but I'm sure at least one of them has thought it.  She is insecure and is probably afraid to say it.  If she ever does, I would probably say something like, "you do not hate me, you love me.  Otherwise you wouldn't care what I did or said.  Because you do care, you are angry enough to use harsh words."  (My purpose being to reassure my daughter that her words will not damage our relationship.)  I might also suggest more accurate words.  (Though that kid tends to be surprisingly articulate when she talks about her feelings.  So maybe that is why she doesn't say "hate.")