My MIL vent-pass the bean dip isn't working

[fruitofthewomb]

I really like my MIL. We have always gotten along great. She wasn't a fan of homeschooling at first but it was for selfish reasons & she later admitted it. She works at the local elementary as an aide-mainly doing reading intervention. She was very disappointed that she wasn't going to see her grandchildren every day.

 

Anyway-fast forward a few years. She always tells me that she is glad we are homeschooling bc the school system stinks. She sees a lot of the positive in homeschooling & she tells others how proud of us she is.

 

BUT she is also not shy about pointing out any & all areas where the kids are behind. My kids stayed the night with her & she informed me that they did 'homework' and then started listing all the things they struggled with. I was so mad!! She is constantly assessing them! And she isn't shy about it. She asked if she could take DDs to school with her just so she could give them a reading/phonics test and to see how they do in a classroom. I say NO every time but she asks at least 3 times a year. Her personality has always been overbearing & I can usually just let it go.

 

I have had my doubts lately about my ability to continue to homeschool (which I have kept to myself) so the latest list of kid school failures really bothered me. I didn't engage. I acted very uninterested & dismissed most of what she said. I pretty much always 'pass the bean dip'. But she doesn't stop!

 

My own mother is very anti-homeschooling but I think I nipped it in the bud earlier in the school year by being extremely hateful.

 

DH has told his mother before that it wasn't any of her business & that she will not take them to school & all that but she doesn't talk to him about school stuff.

 

In her defense-she also does this to her public school grand kids (makes them do school work at her house).

 

It's just so irritating & frustrating!

 

Why do family members think they have the right to question your education choices? This has been one of the hardest parts of homeschooling-meddling family members. My SIL called me the week before oldest was supposed to start kindy & begged me not to ruin DDs life by homeschooling. No exaggeration. Begged. I was furious & hung up on her! I have many more examples but you get the idea.

[jenn-]

:grouphug:   If she is typically a good grandma/MIL, is mainly supportive of your homeschooling choices, and treats her public schooled grandkids the same way, maybe look at it as a cry for wanting to see them more.  It sounds like her specialty is helping students that are behind and maybe she thinks that if she points out the bad you will let her "help" by seeing the kids.

 

Are the kids struggling in an area that maybe Grandma could "help out" on the weekends with?  Even if they are just sitting down and reading books with her, maybe she will feel helpful.

 

I get the frustration with naysayers.  I have a few in my life that like to point out where each of my kids struggle (and if I could chop the fingers off of the 9th grader during math without getting in trouble, I would have done it years ago. Until then, they just have to get over the fact she counts on her fingers).  A lot of the time I just correct their unrealistic expectations of what each child should be able to do in each grade and that shuts them up for that encounter. 

[JustEm]

If my parents or in-laws did that they would not be allowed around my children without my supervision.  If the homework continued even when I was there they would lose access to my children.  I don't mind getting grilled about my educational choices for my children because I am an adult and can back up my decision very well.  However, my children do not know what is appropriate and what is not.  Being tested to see if mom is teaching you correctly is not appropriate.  Since they can't defend themselves then I wouldn't put them in a situation where someone tried to attack them and the families decisions.

 

I'm sorry you are dealing with this.  I hope you don't have to distance yourself from them but it may be the only option in the future if you can't make it clear that the things they are doing are unwanted and wrong.

[hornblower]

This isn't a pass the beandip situation. This is a "sit down, listen. I'm going to explain the ground rules to you. You will follow them or there will be much unhappiness." situation.

Depending on your family dynamics, it might be best to have your dh in the convo as well.

 

The ground rules are:

 

"You will not undermine our parenting

You will not assess/judge/compare our kids

Not a single word will pass your lips as to whether they are ahead or behind whatever level you think is ok

You will not interfere in their academic growth and development

You will smile, have fun with them, play games, offer to teach them stuff they might be interested in but you will not "do school" or even "play school".

 

We've GOT this. It's our responsibility, we're taking it seriously, we have our own philosophy and we've GOT this. "

[zoobie]

Grandma needs some boundaries! Either she respects them or doesn't get alone time with the kids. That's obnoxious! What child wants to do homework with Grandma?

 

Does "aide" mean something different in your school district that here? The ones here have no special education or training. I don't think they need an education degree. Even if she had a PhD in Education, her behavior is wildly inappropriate!

[Alessandra]

Your post doesn't say JAWM, so I'll throw out my opinion.

 

Your MIL sounds decent to me. You said she admitted she had want your kids in school for selfish reasons. That is an honest admission.

 

Now she approves of homeschool and says you are doing a good job. That's great.

 

You have a reading intervention specialist in the family. My first reaction is, how lucky. Testing kids on a regular basis is not necessarily a bad thing. Can you talk to MIL about what kind of testing could be done? She may have some ideas of tests you or she could do at home.

 

I'm guessing here, but one reason she may be suggesting testing in school is that some tests use specific sets of books that cost a small fortune, and the entire set is required to gauge levels. Probably the school would not want those books removed. Perhaps MIL could test kids at school but after classes are dismissed.

 

MIL could be a real asset in helping you if help is needed. If your kids would benefit from intervention, it is not a reflection on you. Plenty of kids in school must need help, or you MIL would not have a job, kwim.

 

If there is a whole history with your MIL that I've missed, that would change things, but I haven't followed the story, if there is one.

[fruitofthewomb]

She isn't specially trained. She is good at her job bc she is very good with kids. But she just does what the specially trained people at school tell her to do.

 

Part of the rub with me is that she had no interest in her kids education. My DH had a lot of potential but was given no guidance or encouragement. He has done well in life bc of his work ethic (which comes from his parents).

 

She isn't really interested in helping me with teaching-just telling me what to do!

 

Her other grand kids have terrible behavior problems & one is overweight. They hate going to her house bc she makes them exercise & makes them mind. So my SIL doesn't make them go up there to see her. So yeah-boundary issues are a problem lol!

[BusyMom5]

She sounds like an otherwise very good grandma.  She does it to all of the grandkids, including the PSed ones, so she's not really picking on your HSed kids.  It sounds like she wants to make sure they are where they should be academically, and while that is your job as teacher/parent, I think it's good that she cares!  If one of you kids did have an issue, I think she is someone who could offer you some extra ideas about instruction, which is great!  I get that it's aggravating, and that you feel she is undermining you.  I don't see it quite that way.  I think she is expressing her own care for the kids. 

 

My MIL is a former teacher, I get it.  I hear ALL the time about what the school kids are doing, what my kids need to be doing more of (writing!).  She does not understand how I can *not* have the reading tests, but still be sure they are advancing (yes, I'm sure they are improving, I hear them read daily!).  I have the PS grade assessments, and she subs and brings home whatever work they did that day.  She isn't near as accepting as you MIL (but this is our first year of HSing).  She wants them back in school, and is constantly worrying me that I am not doing something right.  Yes, it's annoying, but I do know she loves the kids!  I've gotten to where I sometimes send them w/ 'homework' of my own- read 30 minutes each, finish this math worksheet, ect. so that she can see what we are doing and feel a little better about it.  My little ones will also be getting the reading assessment in the next week while school is out.  I really don't mind.  I don't feel it's necessary, but I do think it will help her to see that they are improving by leaps and bounds! 

 

 

[Farrar]

I think passing the bean dip for her is coming off like you don't care and she's concerned so it's just increasing her concern. I think pass the bean dip works best for people who just like to complain or express their opinions but don't really care. Or who have boundary issues but have been given the ground rules, it can be a subtle reminder that you're not going to engage. But in the past you have engaged. I think she's not sure what her role should be. So I agree with sitting her down and saying, look, homeschooling isn't perfect all the time, even the best homeschools have ups and downs, but you need to trust that I have this and if I want you to stay out, I need you to do that.

[kbutton]

***Edited to say, OP, that your additional information went up while I was typing this out. I don't want to delete this in case it is helpful, but I wanted you to know I saw it and hope that you can work out a good solution--sounds like the whole family would like a bit of reprieve from her "concern."

 

I am going to say, very gently, that your MIL's doing this is not nice, but how we react to these things often has a lot to do with how we feel about our own ability to school well, and you have said you are in a doubting phase at the moment (I'm sorry about that. That is not fun, and it's very difficult on its own). If I had a good relationship with MIL, this approach would make me angry on a good day, and I'd feel defeated on a bad day. On a good day though, I could probably find a way to actually say, "Hey, why do you think they are behind?" and figure out if behind means not in lockstep with the school's scope and sequence or something more worrisome. Your MIL is probably worried--I haven't met a grandmother yet that wasn't, and I lived with my two grandmothers within a block of my home, and my great-grandmother next door to me for 17 years--my GG had the corner on nosiness beyond reason. You are rightly feeling like you have a target on your back. If you really like her, I'd try to work myself up to an honest conversation and tell her this is the worst timing possible for you to hear that you might be doing something wrong with homeschooling (but don't let her press for answers about why it's bad timing--you have a right to keep your own doubts to yourself). I'd try see if her concerns are grounded or not. If all goes well, I would work in some ground rules for how she addresses future concerns, including not testing the kids. It may be possible that she sees something that you could work on (and not at all related to your competence as a teacher) that, in the end, resolves your doubts about your homeschooling. If you knew me in person, you would be rolling on the floor right now because I don't have a good relationship with my MIL, and I am not typically a cheery, kumbuya, let's all get along, this happened for a reason, kind of person. But for some reason, it sounds like this situation has the potential to work out okay and maybe go well in the end. If not, please don't let my suggestions get you down--just ditch the whole idea.

 

I think each family has to decide how much input to allow from others who have our best interests at heart. I would not want to have this done to me in this way, but I would also be totally crushed if my FIL (retired reading specialist) didn't read with my kids or let me know if he was worried because I want to know if my kids are doing okay--if I had a physician in my family that wouldn't do something while my kid was having an unusual allergic reaction that I didn't recognize the signs for, I'd be upset. But, I have kids that are quirky, and one has many labels after his name (that we couldn't figure out until he was 9), so my position is admittedly different.

 

Best wishes as you navigate this. 

[Word Nerd]

Her behavior is certainly out of line and inappropriate, but based on what you've shared here I'm not sure I'd call her a naysayer. To me it doesn't sound like she is questioning your decision to homeschool or attacking your parenting choices. She believes she is helping her grandkids--not just the ones who are homeschooled--and wants to be actively involved in their education like she is with other students.

 

Rather than deflecting and ignoring her comments, I'd set specific boundaries and tell her directly with DH that the kids' assessment and education is your responsibility, not hers. Emphasize that you appreciate her desire to help, but you have it covered. The issue is that she's presumptuous and meddlesome, not that she's against homeschooling.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'm with hornblower 100%: This is not a bean dip moment. Children are hurt by lack of acceptance from grandparents, being tested and taught constantly, parents second-guessed, criticism overheard. It's not harmless or just a little quirky, what she's doing here. You and your SILs don't deserve this treatment but more importantly the children should be protected from it.

[Miss Mousie]

Her other grand kids have terrible behavior problems & one is overweight. They hate going to her house bc she makes them exercise & makes them mind.

 

This makes me think it is not about homeschooling at all.  It is about her desire to "help" by tapping at what she sees as each kid's particular "issue" or "flaw."  I think she thinks she can show each kid that there is another way he or she may not have been shown before (e.g., a little exercise every day can make a big difference overall, or a little extra phonics practice can make reading so much easier). 

 

If your kids were not homeschooling, she would focus on something else - like maybe they watch too much tv or picked up bad language habits at PS or don't eat a wide enough variety of vegetables.

 

I think she just wants to find a way to have some positive influence on each kid, and doesn't realize that just being a loving attentive grandma is all each kid really needs from her.  She is trying to shape them instead of just loving them for who and where they are.  And don't we all do that sometimes?  Go a little overboard with the shaping at the expense of the accepting and enjoying?  I know I do.

 

I'm sorry you're feeling doubtful about continuing to homeschool.  I'm sure that feeling is contributing to your sensitivity right now.   Hugs to you, and best wishes for coming out happily on the other side, whatever that other side looks like.

 

Until you're back at a place of confidence, a little distance from grandma is probably a good choice right now.

[Anne in CA]

It is hard to know how hurtful her behavior is without actually seeing your kids react to it. But some of what you said does not seem healthy.

 

But I wanted to address the actual testing because that seems to have made you nervous. Testing a child at night when they are tired is not going to get accurate results. School districts do important testing in the morning. Also, school testing is not always going to reflect what a child really knows. I have seen parents put their home schooled kids back in school and the school does assessments that show the kids are behind and the parents freak out, but later it turns out that the kids were just unfamiliar with the way the information was presented in those tests and the kids were actually far ahead of their schooled peers. Especially math. The schools give new kids tests without calculators and don't tell the parents that kids in school use calculators to complete these exercises and make the parents feel behind, when, again, the kids are really ahead of their ps counterparts, but it takes time in school to reveal that. Also, some kids are not good test takers. My oldest has always been like a deer in the headlights every time she has been tested. She will ALWAYS pick a wrong answer on a multiple choice test, even through college.

 

If you are following TWTM it is unlikely your kids are very far behind ps kids in any subject. My younger two children followed TWTM very closely and have always been very far ahead of ps and even private school kids most of the time. My youngest child is in ps as a high school freshman right now and keeping up just fine even though she basically did almost no school her eighth grade year because she did TPS and we had a lot of internet issues and I was working too much to school her outside that. She is struggling in math and science, but still getting decent grades. Common Core math is just nuts, but that is another subject. 

[texasmama]

My MIL was critical of my kids and vocal about that to them.  "This is the worst handwriting I've ever seen" said to a first grader.  She was also harsh in other ways, and my kids did not enjoy spending time with her.  She no longer spends any time with my kids alone and has not for years, for these and other reasons.  Her boundaries are poor and unfixable, and her judgment is terrible.  Dh's grandmother was critical of homeschooling when we first began (her background is a teacher and public school principal).  So I bombarded her with all the good things the kids were learning, and she came around quickly to say that what I was doing was better than public schooling. 

 

It sounds to me like your MIL is not likely to come around.  It also sounds like her way of interacting with the kids is to "help" them.  If that is her only way of interacting, this may be a lost cause.  My MIL had no other ways of dealing with kids other than to be harsh and irresponsible.  We allowed her more second chances than we should have, and it is a relief to all that she no longer has contact with the kids other than about twice a year at family gatherings when we are present.  She can no longer do any damage.  The kids still talk about the crazy and inappropriate things she would say to them, though, like unicorns are Satanic.  Ugh.  I correct this as utter nonsense.

 

That said, your MIL sounds like she brings some positive things to the table so I would have your dh talk to her and set some very firm and clear boundaries, letting her know what will happen if she crosses them.  If she crosses them, enforce the boundaries.  It is pretty simple, but it is not easy.  I would not give a lot of second chances.  People show very quickly if they are willing to respect the boundaries of others.  If they are not, this is rarely fixable.  If she is cut off from contact with her grandchildren, that will be her own doing, and that needs to be made clear.

[bettyandbob]

I would not subject my dc to overnights with a grandma like this. Overnights with grandma are for bowling, cookie making, board games, learning to knit, learning about grandma's garden, etc. 

 

dc should visit and stay overnight with relatives who want to engage with them and get to know them as they are. They should not stay overnight or unsupervised with someone who wants them to be different, who sees them as not good enough. 

 

You do not have to cut off contact. I would invite grandma to do specific activities with the family and the grandchildren. I would invite her to do things where she can and where you expect her to be an active participant. She can be a spectator at ballet recitals and soccer games, but she can also participate in games of checkers. If she still works at an elementary school, I assume she can do stuff like kick a ball around, go to the pool and go bowling.

 

One of my grandmas judged a lot and wanted us to spend time with her, but when we spent time with her she did not play with us. She really didn't engage with us. Ironically, she was a public school teacher for 40+ years. I don't think anything positive arose from my relationship with her. 

[MysteryJen]

This story gives me flashbacks with my own mother. The result of her being overbearing and critical of things like handwriting and appearance is that my kids only see her out of obligation. She is lonely and says she wants to see them more, but who wants to go somewhere where criticism is the first response to you? Not me, so I don't make them see her much.

 

Your Dh needs to make it clear to her that the end result of this behavior is grandchildren who do not wish to have her in their lives. I can't think of anything sadder than that.

[Jyhwkmama]

A grandmother who makes kids do homework and exercise? I would see her 100% less.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Depends on how she's encouraging the kids to blossom.  Is she encouraging them to exercise by doing fun games with them in the yard (even if she's cheering from the sidelines)?  Is she encouraging them academically by playing board games that encourage reading, math and thinking skills?  Or is she more heavy handed?  

[kewb]

I see a couple of things going on here.

 

1. Grandma has some boundry issues.

2. Since you are in a doubting moment everything she is doing seems that much worse.

 

You and dh need to sit down with mil and lay down some boundries and what the consequences are of crossing them and stick to it.

 

As for the constant assessment and wanting to test based on your comments it is coming from a place of love even if the delivery is awful. You could take her uo on her assessment offer. Knowing areas that your kids can improve on is not a bad thing.

 

First the boundaries need to be set then you can discuss her helping.

[readinmom]

I would counter it with, "Is there anything that the kids are doing that you are proud of? Your grandchildren have many positives that you never talk about.  You seem to only focus on the negative."  That right there is an opening to dialogue, if you want it. 

[Another Lynn]

You could tell her that part of your homeschooling philosophy is not only considering academic goals, but also emotional, spiritual, goals as well.  You could say it's not your goal to hit certain academic benchmarks at certain times, but rather to take a slower path emphasizing their love of learning as well as their progress - and that you are content that the rest will even out in time.  You could also say that while you appreciate her enthusiasm for her job, you would rather her relationship with them as their grandmother be more affirming and not assessment based.  You hope your children will see her as someone they want to spend time with for other reasons (for who she is, for baking with them, for working puzzles, for shopping, for cleaning, for gardening, for <insert xyz activity>, not someone they dread to see because she will be judging their academic abilities.  For the sake of your children's relationships with her, I would kindly, respectfully work on boundaries.

[Tammyla]

My simple solution would be not to allow her any alone time with the children unless she agreed not to undermine your parenting.  

[Joanne]

The actual tool of Bean Dip is not a polite and quick change of subject. It is actually the use of clear firm boundaries based on the situation.

 

This situation, if it were my family, would include no unsupervised visits and the immediate end to visits the moment she "Goes there".

 

 

Let me know if you want to read the actual "bean dip".

[gardenmom5]

fruitofthewomb, on 01 Jan 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

 

Why do family members think they have the right to question your education choices? This has been one of the hardest parts of homeschooling-meddling family members. My SIL called me the week before oldest was supposed to start kindy & begged me not to ruin DDs life by homeschooling. No exaggeration. Begged. I was furious & hung up on her! I have many more examples but you get the idea.

did you ever thing this is less about your mil's questioning your choices - and more about her lack of trust in the job she did rearing her own children? - so she doesn't trust them to rear her grandchildren?  (and it sounds like she has no confidence in *anyone* else to do stuff.)

 

 

my sister did something similar to your sil before I sent my daughter off to college on the east coast.  did a major "It's a horrible school, etc."  respond-all to an email and I had other people asking me who the whackadoodle was. basically she was jealous my public schooled daughter got into a top tier school, and her hobnobbing with children of the upper-middle class liberals private schooled daughter didn't.

[duckens]

1) Grandma may not realize that she is not at work anymore.  There are lots of people this way.  (My sister used to nanny for a high-powered lawyer who would behave that way at home sometimes). 

2) Grandma loves her job.  It provides her respect and a role she is comfortable in.
--she is needed

--she is appreciated by her co-workers

--she is good at her job

--people (students and their parents) benefit from what she says

 

She may want to re-create that at home.

 

In another age with better opportunities for women, she may have earned a teaching degree and become everyone's favorite 5th grade teacher.

3) Being in a teacher/adviser role also gives her a framework for how to interact with you.  Homeschooling is a big part of your life right now; she has worked in education for years, so she is confident discussing "education topics" with you. 

My opinion ===> Otherwise she feels anxiety over other subjects or doesn't know what subjects to talk about with you with confidence.

Of course, her interactions with you in this manner have not been handled appropriately. You are not interested in her advice or her style of help at this time.

 

[MotherOfBoys]

I would not allow unsupervised visits but also I worry about the supervised ones as well. I don't like extended family commenting on our parenting style/choices around my children. It under minds my authority in front of my children. BIG NO! I would not do that to my dh and he doesn't do that to me. Extended family are not strangers. Their opinions carry more weight with my children so them having an opinion around my children is a no. They are call me or wait till my children are outside to talk about their concerns.

 

I had similar things happen this Christmas. They waited for dh to be out of the room to bombard me with socializing and sports questions. My children were at my feet playing. Long story short, dh had to make a phone call to his parents, sister, and grandma the next day about boundaries.

[Spring Flower]

Sounds like we have the same MIL! Mine only visits once or twice a year and she always brings a pile of assessments that she uses in her classroom. (She is a teacher's aide.) She thinks I have my kids placed too low and should be pushing them through more difficult work. She goes on and on about how wonderful Saxon is and how we MUST use it! And Wordly Wise, that is the best spelling/word study program available!    :glare: Yes, Saxon and Wordly Wise are good programs. No, we will not be using them in our homeschool. Yes, I want to challenge my kids. No, I will not place DS in a 5th grade math book because that is what your assessment places him in. I have to brace myself every visit for something new. It really is tiring. 

 

For me, the thing that stands out in your post is that you are beginning to doubt your ability to homeschool. That is why her comments are particularly harmful right now. When my MIL and I get to a point where I feel like I just can't explain why our choices or best for our family, I always have my DH talk to her. I haven't had to do it for homeschooling yet, but every time we go home to visit our families DH has to give her a big explanation of why we can't do every little thing she expects. I try politely talking to her and explaining our situation but she is able to push me into things I don't want to do. She doesn't push him the way she pushes me. DH has to talk to her multiple times during the trip and we have to keep firm. Maybe try having your DH talk to your MIL will help. When she sees that you and DH are on the same side, she will be less likely to push you. It won't work the first or second time, but maybe having him share the load will help ease some of your burden. 

 

 

[Anne]

just to address the doubting issue: I homeschooled for 16 years (both kids from K through 12) and I doubted myself regularly for most of the years. I sent my second child off to college still second-guessing myself.

 

But you know what? Both kids graduated from college and did very well. Both are employed adults. And irony of ironies, one is a public school teacher....!

 

Use your doubt to encourage yourself to seek out the best you can afford in education, to educate yourself where you need to, and to encourage your dc to their best work.

 

Anne

[KungFuPanda]

It sounds to me like you and MIL are BOTH genuinely concerned that the kids aren't working up to their full potential. Perhaps you can swallow your insecurity and have an honest conversation with her explaining that EVERY education will have an occasional gap; and area where the child could have done better had attention not been focused elsewhere. The trouble is that attention was likely focused somewhere equally worthwhile. There is no perfect education.

 

Since your MIL sounds caring and capable, I'd try to channel that. Maybe let her take over a class with the kids? It would lighten your load and give her the time and involvement she craves. It'll also mix things up for the kids and keep it fresh. These sound like very loved and lucky children.

[fruitofthewomb]

The reason I am doubting myself is bc my oldest (9) has recently been diagnosed with LD & ADHD. She also has other health issues. I don't know if I can manage her & my 4 others. I already feel stretched so thin & now I really need to ramp up time spent with oldest for remediation.

 

I have been a slow & steady mom. I am not rigorous & go at the pace of the child. I think this makes everyone uneasy.

 

For ex-my 6 yr old has just started reading & writing well although she is 'technically' halfway through 1st grade. This was what MIL was concerned about.

[Word Nerd]

1) Grandma may not realize that she is not at work anymore.  There are lots of people this way.  (My sister used to nanny for a high-powered lawyer who would behave that way at home sometimes). 

 

2) Grandma loves her job.  It provides her respect and a role she is comfortable in.

--she is needed

--she is appreciated by her co-workers

--she is good at her job

--people (students and their parents) benefit from what she says

 

She may want to re-create that at home.

 

In another age with better opportunities for women, she may have earned a teaching degree and become everyone's favorite 5th grade teacher.

 

3) Being in a teacher/adviser role also gives her a framework for how to interact with you.  Homeschooling is a big part of your life right now; she has worked in education for years, so she is confident discussing "education topics" with you. 

 

My opinion ===> Otherwise she feels anxiety over other subjects or doesn't know what subjects to talk about with you with confidence.

 

Of course, her interactions with you in this manner have not been handled appropriately. You are not interested in her advice or her style of help at this time.

 

 

 

I agree. My sister was a teacher at a private preschool and is now a classroom teacher. Especially when the kids were little, I sometimes had to remind her that she didn't need to correct or redirect them because that was my job (or my other sister's when it was directed at her kids). Her nieces weren't at school, she wasn't their teacher, they were not subject to her classroom's rules but mine, and I was fully capable of handling them myself. I think it's hard for some people to take off their occupational hat when they get home. I don't think she was even doing it consciously; she automatically took on that teaching role when she was with kids. At first she was offended when I told her to knock it off, but she eventually got it and recognizes that she isn't on duty when she's spending time with her nieces and nephews. She can relax and just have fun with them.

[MysteryJen]

The reason I am doubting myself is bc my oldest (9) has recently been diagnosed with LD & ADHD. She also has other health issues. I don't know if I can manage her & my 4 others. I already feel stretched so thin & now I really need to ramp up time spent with oldest for remediation.

 

I have been a slow & steady mom. I am not rigorous & go at the pace of the child. I think this makes everyone uneasy.

 

For ex-my 6 yr old has just started reading & writing well although she is 'technically' halfway through 1st grade. This was what MIL was concerned about.

:grouphug: here. I have a couple of dyslexics here and those early years were hard enough without "helpful" judgments and assessments. Also, your 6 yr is doing fine, for pete's sake. Many kids aren't reading or writing well before 7. 

 

If you feel you need help, get it from someone other than your mil. She needs to be the grandma who loves the kids. Period.

Anything else is not remotely close to helpful.

[kbutton]

:grouphug: here. I have a couple of dyslexics here and those early years were hard enough without "helpful" judgments and assessments. Also, your 6 yr is doing fine, for pete's sake. Many kids aren't reading or writing well before 7. 

 

If you feel you need help, get it from someone other than your mil. She needs to be the grandma who loves the kids. Period.

Anything else is not remotely close to helpful.

 

I agree. The more I hear, the more I suggest you ignore my first post!!! I did some research, and you are clearly working hard to do right by your kiddos in a situation that transcends "normal" situations with grandparents.

 

Joanne, I would love to hear more about the proper use of bean dip. I did a brief search but didn't really find it if you've posted before.

[Joanne]

I agree. The more I hear, the more I suggest you ignore my first post!!! I did some research, and you are clearly working hard to do right by your kiddos in a situation that transcends "normal" situations with grandparents.

 

Joanne, I would love to hear more about the proper use of bean dip. I did a brief search but didn't really find it if you've posted before.

 

http://www.joanneketch.com/ParentingChoiceBoundaries.en.html

[Lisbeth]

No more alone time with grandma. Tell her without explaining or justifying that testing the children and questioning their education is very inappropriate...and is to stop. If it starts to happen during supervised visits, pack up and leave without hostility. Rinse and repeat. If her goal is a do-over, that's too bad. These are your children.

[idnib]

.

[HeWillSoar]

My MIL is a teacher, and she recently told my 5th grader, after he wasn't able to tell her the capital of Colorado, that 5th graders should know their states and  capitals.  Now we just started homeschooling this year and for some reason, last year they didn't learn this, but man did that cause me a bit of self doubt.  I know that it wasn't my fault that he didn't know his states and capitals, and I put that on the list for our homeschooling, but it just made me realize that any gaps that she can find in the future are going to be blamed on me.

 

All that to say that I can understand how that must make you feel when she does those things.  I think it would be best to let her know (by way of DH) that it isn't her job to assess your kids but to just be a grandma and have fun with them.  My middle son remembers, with no amount of fondness, the time when she made him read to her and he didn't like it.  I'm not sure if she was using him as practice for her degree or what but he has not forgotten that.   As far as testing, let her know that you do your own testing and you have it taken care of. 

[mamaraby]

No more alone time with grandma. Tell her without explaining or justifying that testing the children and questioning their education is very inappropriate...and is to stop. If it starts to happen during supervised visits, pack up and leave without hostility. Rinse and repeat. If her goal is a do-over, that's too bad. These are your children.

This. My MIL is very much the "grandchildren are my chance at a do-over for all the things I didn't get to do as a parent." She's actually used those words more or less. It's not loving in the way most people would expect and it isn't even about my children, it's all about my MIL.

 

A loving grandmother who wants to be involved with the kids? Hey, I'm all for that. My mother listens to the kids read when they're first learning and it's exciting and fun cuz it's grandma. She does art with them both with us and on her own. She reads to them. She listens to them and tries to share their interests. She doesn't quiz them to see what they know. She isn't trying to fix them.

 

What the OP describes desn't sound like my mother (or my sister's MIL for that matter who does many of the same things with my kids). She sounds like my MIL and that's not the sort of thing I think it's wise to engage in.

[jenn-]

The reason I am doubting myself is bc my oldest (9) has recently been diagnosed with LD & ADHD. She also has other health issues. I don't know if I can manage her & my 4 others. I already feel stretched so thin & now I really need to ramp up time spent with oldest for remediation.

 

I have been a slow & steady mom. I am not rigorous & go at the pace of the child. I think this makes everyone uneasy.

 

For ex-my 6 yr old has just started reading & writing well although she is 'technically' halfway through 1st grade. This was what MIL was concerned about.

 

Your 6yo is perfectly within the norm.  My dd was in PS until halfway through second grade and reading didn't click until halfway through first grade and that was with intensive reading pull outs by the school.  One day it clicked and she could read.

 

 

If you very recently received your DD's diagnosis, take a few breaths before making any decisions.  I've btdt with the "OMG what do I do now" and the overwhelmed feeling does get better.

[fruitofthewomb]

I don't know how to multi quote so I copied & pasted. I am sorry if this is a mess! There was so much I wanted to respond to & I wasn't able to be online much today until now!

 

She is a good grandma in lots of ways-she does picnics, crafts, baking, etc. with them also. So she isn't just making them do school work.

 

 

"I hear ALL the time about what the school kids are doing..."

 

Yes! She is always telling me that kindergartners at her school are doing XYZ.

 

 

 

"But in the past you have engaged. I think she's not sure what her role should be."

 

You are right. If I could go back in time I would do things differently.

 

 

 

"figure out if behind means not in lockstep with the school's scope and sequence or something more worrisome."

 

I think you hit on a big factor: she can't wrap her head around the fact that I don't have to do things just like the public school.

 

 

 

"The issue is that she's presumptuous and meddlesome, not that she's against homeschooling."

 

Yes you are right!

 

 

 

 

"I think she just wants to find a way to have some positive influence on each kid, and doesn't realize that just being a loving attentive grandma is all each kid really needs from her. She is trying to shape them instead of just loving them for who and where they are."

 

You know I have been thinking about this. I think maybe it's not so much that she is trying to shape them. I think she is trying to 'help' me. I think she feels like she can 'fix' them or find a solution to whatever their problems are. She has never been the kind of person who you can just vent to. If you vent to her she will tell you how to fix all your problems.

 

 

 

"I'm sorry you're feeling doubtful about continuing to homeschool. I'm sure that feeling is contributing to your sensitivity right now. Hugs to you, and best wishes for coming out happily on the other side, whatever that other side looks like."

 

Thank you

 

 

 

 

"My MIL was critical of my kids and vocal about that to them. "This is the worst handwriting I've ever seen" said to a first grader. She was also harsh in other ways, and my kids did not enjoy spending time with her."

 

I don't think my MIL would ever be critical like that. She does try to find the best in whatever they do.

 

 

 

"It also sounds like her way of interacting with the kids is to "help" them. If that is her only way of interacting, this may be a lost cause."

 

Yes! But it isn't her only interaction with them. She does do lots of typical grandma type things with them.

 

 

 

 

"Depends on how she's encouraging the kids to blossom. Is she encouraging them to exercise by doing fun games with them in the yard (even if she's cheering from the sidelines)? Is she encouraging them academically by playing board games that encourage reading, math and thinking skills? Or is she more heavy handed?"

 

I don't think she is heavy handed. The few things I have seen her do were fun activities (for exercise) but my nephew didn't think it was fun. He wanted to go back in & play video games. I think she had DD6 copy a funny sentence & read to her. DD9 refused to play along. It wasn't much but it still rubbed me the wrong way.

 

 

 

 

 

"1. Grandma has some boundry issues.

2. Since you are in a doubting moment everything she is doing seems that much worse."

 

Yes and yes! I don't take criticism well & the whole thing yesterday left me feeling very discouraged.

 

 

 

 

 

"You could tell her that part of your homeschooling philosophy is not only considering academic goals, but also emotional, spiritual, goals as well. You could say it's not your goal to hit certain academic benchmarks at certain times, but rather to take a slower path emphasizing their love of learning as well as their progress - and that you are content that the rest will even out in time.

You could also say that while you appreciate her enthusiasm for her job, you would rather her relationship with them as their grandmother be more affirming and not assessment based. You hope your children will see her as someone they want to spend time with for other reasons (for who she is, for baking with them, for working puzzles, for shopping, for cleaning, for gardening, for <insert xyz activity>, not someone they dread to see because she will be judging their academic abilities. For the sake of your children's relationships with her, I would kindly, respectfully work on boundaries."

 

Thank you! You put my thoughts into words! This sums up my feelings very well!

 

 

 

 

"The actual tool of Bean Dip is not a polite and quick change of subject. It is actually the use of clear firm boundaries based on the situation."

 

I did re-read your bean dip post. I had read it several years ago. Obviously I had forgotten much of it! I haven't been using it properly with MIL. I will amend my ways!

 

 

 

 

 

"1) Grandma may not realize that she is not at work anymore. There are lots of people this way. (My sister used to nanny for a high-powered lawyer who would behave that way at home sometimes).

2) Grandma loves her job. It provides her respect and a role she is comfortable in.

--she is needed

--she is appreciated by her co-workers

--she is good at her job

--people (students and their parents) benefit from what she says

She may want to re-create that at home.

In another age with better opportunities for women, she may have earned a teaching degree and become everyone's favorite 5th grade teacher.

3) Being in a teacher/adviser role also gives her a framework for how to interact with you. Homeschooling is a big part of your life right now; she has worked in education for years, so she is confident discussing "education topics" with you."

 

Wow! All 3 points seem to be spot on! She is good at her job & I think she would have made a great teacher! And I do think she likes talking to me about education although we do have many other shared interests.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"just to address the doubting issue: I homeschooled for 16 years (both kids from K through 12) and I doubted myself regularly for most of the years. I sent my second child off to college still second-guessing myself.

But you know what? Both kids graduated from college and did very well. Both are employed adults. And irony of ironies, one is a public school teacher....!

Use your doubt to encourage yourself to seek out the best you can afford in education, to educate yourself where you need to, and to encourage your dc to their best work.

Anne"

 

Thank you so much!

 

 

 

 

"It sounds to me like you and MIL are BOTH genuinely concerned that the kids aren't working up to their full potential. Perhaps you can swallow your insecurity and have an honest conversation with her explaining that EVERY education will have an occasional gap; and area where the child could have done better had attention not been focused elsewhere. The trouble is that attention was likely focused somewhere equally worthwhile. There is no perfect education.

Since your MIL sounds caring and capable, I'd try to channel that. Maybe let her take over a class with the kids? It would lighten your load and give her the time and involvement she craves. It'll also mix things up for the kids and keep it fresh. These sound like very loved and lucky children."

 

I like your approach. she is usually a reasonable person so maybe I should have a heart to heart with her. But then I am afraid of opening up a can of worms!

I think she could be an asset IF she were reliable. But using her to help with school isn't an option right now for many reasons (time, logistics, etc)

 

 

 

 

"Loving and available Grandma ? You're stretched thin ? I'd make her an ally.

I am somewhat bemused at the suggestions to cut her off...she just needs redirection. 'Oh, thanks for that, but do you know what would REALLY help ? I would be so thankful if you could do x, y or z with child.'

Loving grandparents can be an awesome homeschool resource."

 

I will be honest-I have no plans to cut her off. I think there is an issue that needs to be addressed but I have confidence that 'cutting her off' won't be necessary. I used to wish she would retire so she could help me but I have come to realize that I need some space from her. She likes to be in charge & tell everyone what to do. I don't work well with people like that.

 

 

 

 

 

"it just made me realize that any gaps that she can find in the future are going to be blamed on me."

 

I feel like I am under a microscope by so many people who are just waiting to point a finger & say "see we told you that homeschooling was a mistake!"

 

ETA: I had to add a sentence & fix spacing.

[fruitofthewomb]

Your 6yo is perfectly within the norm. My dd was in PS until halfway through second grade and reading didn't click until halfway through first grade and that was with intensive reading pull outs by the school. One day it clicked and she could read.

 

 

If you very recently received your DD's diagnosis, take a few breaths before making any decisions. I've btdt with the "OMG what do I do now" and the overwhelmed feeling does get better.

Yes DDs diagnosis is brand new. And I am reeling.

 

My MIL keeps comparing my 6 yr old to PS kids who read by Christmas in kindy & all that.

 

Thanks for your reply.

[Tanaqui]

My MIL is a teacher, and she recently told my 5th grader, after he wasn't able to tell her the capital of Colorado, that 5th graders should know their states and  capitals.  Now we just started homeschooling this year and for some reason, last year they didn't learn this, but man did that cause me a bit of self doubt.  I know that it wasn't my fault that he didn't know his states and capitals, and I put that on the list for our homeschooling, but it just made me realize that any gaps that she can find in the future are going to be blamed on me.

 

As somebody who really *does* have a good grasp of state and national capitals, let me assure you that that is extremely useless information. I've never once been called upon to tell people that the capital of Vermont is Montpelier or the capital of Louisiana is Baton Rouge.

 

"Just think about how embarrassing it will be for you to be so ignorant. Imagine when you grow up and somebody asks you what the capitol of Portugal is, and you can't answer!"

 

"Oh, I can answer all right, " said Pippi. "I'll answer like this: 'If you are so bound and determined to find out what the capital of Portugal is, then, for goodness' sakes, write directly to Portugal and ask.'"

 

"Yes, but don't you think that you would be sorry not to know it for yourself?"

 

"Oh, probably," said Pippi. "No doubt I should lie awake nights and wonder and wonder, 'What in the world is the capital of Portugal?' But one can't be having fun all the time," she continued, bending over and standing on her hands for a change. "For that matter, I've been to Lisbon with my papa," she added, still standing upside down, for she could talk that way too.

 

There, now, just trust Pippi. Astrid Lindgreen was a genius when she wrote her up.

 

[FO4UR]

4 words.  "YOU ARE NOT HELPING!"

 

 

Set some kind and clear boundaries.  Leave the schoolwork and assessments to dh and myself. We will seek out unbiased professional help as needed.  We will not mix holidays with schoolwork.  Time with extended family will remain *just* that.

 

 

 

 

When you make my 6yo think he is behind in school, YOU ARE NOT HELPING.

 

When you compare an LD & ADHD kid to a NT kid, YOU ARE NOT HELPING.

 

When you........, YOU ARE NOT HELPING.

 

 

 

Give clear guidelines.  You may read aloud to them, play games with them, craft, bake, etc...you may not assess them or do any schoolwork with them b/c you are causing problems with confidence, attitude, and confusing the kids...not to mention frustrating me.  IOW - You are not helping.

 

 

 

 

I have a gut feeling that having this conversation will show some underlying stuff that might surprise you.  The fact that she targets overweight grandkids as well, etc...she likes to be bossy, etc....sounds like a controlling personality with some manipulative and emotionally hurtful tactics used.  You will know quickly what you are dealing with b/c a controlling person will lash out when boundaries are drawn (passive-aggression included), but a caring person will abide by your boundaries and feel repentant about having harmed anyone.

 

 

 

Do NOT give her more influence over schooling.  You are probably feeling some lack of confidence, in part, b/c you've been hearing her in your head for the last few years. Reality:  Many LD & ADHD kids do so much better at home with a parent who takes the slow& steady, at the child's pace approach.  The key is a dedicated parent who works at teaching them.  That sounds like an accurate description of you, so carry on...kick your MIL out of your head.

[Laurel-in-CA]

I would just tell her that your scope & sequence is different from that at her school (speaking her educationalese), so please don't try to apply the standards she works to for public school kids to yours. And I would tell her that assessments are not welcome at any time, but positive encouraging comments that build her grandchildren's self-esteem or introduce them to new hobbies she would like to do with them ARE welcome. I might even invite her along on a family "field trip" to a museum or whatever (and discourage schooly-type scavenger hunt exercises and just savor the experience).

 

And I would find other homeschoolers to discuss doubts and difficulties with. Clearly she's not the person to share your fears and trials or give you suggestions for homeschool success. She's more of a hostile audience; I would never share my challenges with her.

 

Every time she tried an assessment, it would be time to leave her presence. Every time she made a positive comment or did something non-schoolish can be an opportunity for praise and more time together.

 

She may be overcompensating for feeling she didn't do the best for her own kids, feeling that her new expertise should serve her family and all that - but it's not her place and it's not the way she wants her grandkids to remember her. Try to keep the focus on helping her figure out how to build positive memories from the kids' point of view.

[Rebel Yell]

This isn't a pass the beandip situation. This is a "sit down, listen. I'm going to explain the ground rules to you. You will follow them or there will be much unhappiness." situation.

Depending on your family dynamics, it might be best to have your dh in the convo as well.

 

The ground rules are:

 

"You will not undermine our parenting

You will not assess/judge/compare our kids

Not a single word will pass your lips as to whether they are ahead or behind whatever level you think is ok

You will not interfere in their academic growth and development

You will smile, have fun with them, play games, offer to teach them stuff they might be interested in but you will not "do school" or even "play school".

 

We've GOT this. It's our responsibility, we're taking it seriously, we have our own philosophy and we've GOT this. "

 

:hurray: :iagree:

 

[Danestress]

It sounds like she is a good grandmother who is just a bit overbearing and overly needing to "help."  Sometimes I think the direct approach is best, especially in a context when you care about the person and they care about you.

 

"MIL, I need you to stop asking me to let you test the kids.  It's not going to happen, and I am not sure why you keep asking.  It really bothers me.  I love how you spend so much time with the kids, and you are a great grandmother, but I need to ask you not to try to test the or give them homework.  That is my job as a mother, and you are overstepping your bounds."

 

Yeah, she will be mad.  But you got to say your bit.  She can argue, but you can say, "I am sure a lot of people would agree with you, but I don't, and DH and I as parent have the only votes.  Please just respect my feelings about this."  And be super nice and polite about everything else.  Don't defend, argue, present evidence etc.  Just let this be your one "thing" that she can like or not like but that you have decided.  If you are awesome to her otherwise, and not otherwise controlling, it will blow over.  Sometimes you just have to let people be mad.  Right now, you are upset and are the one who is expending energy being troubled by this dynamic.  Lay down your position clearly, and let HER be the one dealing with any negative feelings it conjures.  

 

You can expect that might short term cause some conflict.  But don't let yourself get mired in it.  If she says you are controlling, a micromanager, ruining your children, etc, you just say something like, "I hear you, and maybe you are right, but in the end, I am the Mom, so I am making this choice."

 

I know a lot of people say to let each spouse deal with his or her own parents, but sometimes I just think it's effective to say your bit very directly and let the chips fall.  My MIL did not really like it when I was direct with her early in our marriage, but we haven't had a cross word in 18 years since.  If she has "issues" with me, she copes with them somehow.  And I do give her leeway to be herself and to do things differently with the kids than I might prefer, but I did lay down my bottom line about the thing that mattered to me.  

[HS Mom in NC]

You're husband is going to have to be more blunt and if MIL tries to divide and conquer by coming to you, you'll both have to be on the same page. Maybe both of you need to sit down with her and have the conversation. Either way I suggest you stick to this page:

 

"We have already answered that question. [About an assessment.] Don't ask us about it again. It's not open for discussion. If you do, we'll leave/hung up/ ask you to leave. We send our children to your house to be their grandmother, not their tutor.  If you try to tutor them again, we will end unsupervised visits. You would probably be a good tutor, so why don't you look into getting some sort of specialized certification so you can tutor the children of parents who want a tutor for their children? "

 

Expect her to be angry or upset or whatever strong emotion she's prone to feel.  Don't give her emotions a hold over you.  She's over stepping and she's already been told you don't want an assessment.  She can experience the consequences of not taking the answer given. That's just reality and there's no good reason to alter reality for her.

 

I would also suggest you spend time at the Learning Challenges Board and get advice from the BTDT crowd.

[fruitofthewomb]

You're husband is going to have to be more blunt and if MIL tries to divide and conquer by coming to you, you'll both have to be on the same page. Maybe both of you need to sit down with her and have the conversation. Either way I suggest you stick to this page:

 

"We have already answered that question. [About an assessment.] Don't ask us about it again. It's not open for discussion. If you do, we'll leave/hung up/ ask you to leave. We send our children to your house to be their grandmother, not their tutor. If you try to tutor them again, we will end unsupervised visits. You would probably be a good tutor, so why don't you look into getting some sort of specialized certification so you can tutor the children of parents who want a tutor for their children? "

 

Expect her to be angry or upset or whatever strong emotion she's prone to feel. Don't give her emotions a hold over you. She's over stepping and she's already been told you don't want an assessment. She can experience the consequences of not taking the answer given. That's just reality and there's no good reason to alter reality for her.

 

I would also suggest you spend time at the Learning Challenges Board and get advice from the BTDT crowd.

Thanks-I need to rehearse for when this happens again!

[kiwik]

The thing is I think it is reasonable for a grandparent to drag a kid away from video games for fun energetic activity (not actual running laps or punitive type but easy fun stuff) and I also think it is reasonable for a grandparent to insist on good behavoir. So looking it from this angle I think that most of the problem is that you are feeling insucure. Have you pointed out that there is no reason to expect if your children were in PS that they be anything other than average readers. It is not uncommon for a 6 year old to be just taking off in reading and writing. It is also not uncommon for a 6 year old to be in K. Maybe her pride as a grandmother leads her to have unrealistic expectations. With the testing you will just have to make her understand that at this point morevtesting is not desired. But maybe she is seeing something that she thinks could be helped - have you discussed it with her?