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Is this teacher fair or not?


simplemom
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As a former Kg teacher, I think the line order idea sounds fine. I mean she does switch it, so he'll be 1st for the rest of the year.  Doesn't sound like a big deal to me. I have other issues with Public schools, so that would not be my issue to instigate homeschooling over (mine never attended B&M schools).

 

I did by groups of whom was ready to go when I help up my sign, so often several well behaved tables were always towards the front and 1 or 2 groups would be toward the end. (until those groups figured it out and started getting cleaned up faster  :laugh: .)

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Hmmm ... well to me that is no big deal.  I guess I'm mean mom and have told my kids from the get go, sometimes life isn't fair.  Sometimes teachers make rules that seem random, but keep their classroom much more sane.  And it's not like the teacher is planning on doing it ALL year long.  She's going to mix it up next semester.  So that alone to me is not remotely a reason to pull a kid out of school.  But sometimes it's just something like this that sets a parent off after a string of minor annoyances.  Maybe this would be less annoying to a slightly older and more mature kid?  He's like the youngest now, correct?  So the parent is being inconsistent.  My child is so vastly ahead he needs to grade skip, but is such a special little pumpkin, you need to switch rules that have been working for you for years to accommodate my kid that is now the youngest in your classroom.  I could see why that would drive an admin nuts. 

 

All that said, I did pull oldest my kid out after 1st grade and I have lots of problems with kids being in a holding pattern most of the day.  Especially kids that are ahead of the curve.  And given that this is a kid (and a boy) that is academically ahead, that is now very youngest for grade, the decision to homeschool may be a good one.  The reading level of my son's first grade class ranged from not reading to beyond Harry Potter level.  My kid was at that higher level.  But was he ready to really do the higher output and more focus the older kids were expected to at that age?  Hmmm ... hard to say.  Now my son is an 8th grader, he's had a ditzy, hormonal year and the pressures of early high school early may not have been right.  You only get one opportunity to launch your kid to high school, and then to college.  My son has a couple friends just a few months older than him that are a year ahead of him in school that struggled with the organizational and work load aspects of junior high, even though they are academic high achievers.  Sometimes academics don't necessarily align with maturity and overall focus.  So my 8th grader is definitely doing high school work and beyond at home, with the required work load and output more like a junior high student.  Homeschooling has allowed him to develop more naturally at his own rate without the pressures of NEEDING to graduate early.  Which I still do hold in my back pocket as an option.  I just think it's hard to know in a very young kid what their development and interests into their teens will be. 

 

Maybe this is just karma working for this little boy and being home and being able to be his own age while working where he is actually at in terms of academics is where it's at for him?

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Mom is overreacting big time. She either needs to teach her son that life isn't fair and help him understand that being last in line doesn't reflect on who he is or home school him I suppose. The teacher's line system makes sense to me. It leads to less confusion and less fighting overall.

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But a 7 year kid is not a big kid. Even if the fear or upset seems like no big deal to others it can be a very real and very big deal to a small CHILD.

 

As a general rule the line being alphabetized is not a big deal for me. But I am not a 7 year old boy who is upset by it.

 

Perhaps because I have a child with a neurological difference who can be quite sensitive, I try to take my kids concerns seriously and acknowledge them as valid even if they seem small to adult eyes. This doesn't mean the line order has to change or that the solution can't be talking up the positives of being at the back of the line. But I wouldn't write it off as no big deal.

 

As the youngest child in the grade without knowing other kids is it possible that his fears are allayed not by being at the front of the line but by being in proximity to the teacher? It's possible that he is being teased or bullied and it's manifesting as anxiety about being at the back of the line (far from the eyes of the teacher). Many kids that age won't say a word if they are being bullied at school. They will just develop problems and resistance to going to school.

 

I don't think I'd make this my hill to die on but I'd try to figure out what is bothering him about it. It may or may not be about being "last".

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I can totally see why a teacher would line kids up according to their last name.  Dealing with kids pushing and fighting for line position several times a day would drive me nuts. And doing it the same way all semester means kids figure out where they are in line and lines form easily.   

Switching it up second semester will help the kids at the end of the line..and the poor kids in the middle will always be in the middle. But it's just a line. 

 

If this friend is this upset over line formation, it's going to be a long year. I predict there will be many other things to get upset over this year...some justified, some not. 

 

Maybe the kid is ready for second grade, but is the mom? She has to adjust and expect him to fit in with the other second graders, not always think of him as the youngest. (Which she might or might not be doing, but this seems like a minor hill to go to the principal about)

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Coming from a W, who was secretly relieved to have married a K....

 

I think she should focus more on helping him deal with a situation neither he nor she is in control of. Both of my kids *could* be in the next grade, according to their ages and academic ability. But boy am I glad they're not. I can supplement with challenging academics at home, but I can make up for going from oldest to youngest in terms of class dynamics.

 

It's a case of equal not being the same as fair, I guess. They line up A-Z for half the year, then Z-A for the other half. Only two kids in the whole class ever get to be at the front of the line - isn't hers lucky he'll be there for half of it? And what about A? He/she will never be at the front again in grade 2!

 

If she was looking for an excuse to start homeschooling, instead of a reason, I guess she's got one!

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I had to go through my entire K-12 experience between Marc and Kim. He looked down on poor people (Kim and me), and she hated girls who wore dresses or hair bows (me) and rich people (Marc), and I had a mild but awkwardly obvious crush on Marc even though he was from a family of snobs and I had NO idea how to talk to Kim, but our last names were in line alphabetically so there you go.

 

Desks in a row through elementary, lockers next to each other in middle school and in high school, following each other in the rope climb and high jump in gym class, fewer than a dozen conversations.

I survived. I can't remember anybody ever complaining about the alphabetical order thing, whether first, last, or just surrounded by people you hate.

 

I guess I'm saying I think the ordering of children is a necessary evil and I can't imagine the teacher trying to accommodate everybody so a system of any kind makes sense. But I also think little children should be happy during their school day, and this little guy does not sound happy. Lastly, I think his mom sounds like a nut.

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I wouldn't make a huge deal out of it.

What really gets me is this 'The mom said it was her child and she could walk him back to class so atleast one time of the day he wasn't at the end of the line, that she didn't have to follow the rules because she knew homeschooling was an option if the school didn't change the situation' just because you homeschool doesn't mean you don't follow the rules. Maybe that's not what you meant when writing that, but it sounds like she believes she's above the rules and she isn't. Rules are in place for a reason.

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What about the kids in the middle? They never get to be first. :) mountain molehill.

 

As far as the walking from lunch. I used to so that all the time at my boys' school without issue. However, I might cut some slack at the beginning if the year as routines are developed.

 

LOL - that's all I could think of too.  My kids' last name starts with a K.  They'd be doomed ALL.YEAR.LONG.  :D

 

And I'm all about honoring the kids feelings.  But I feel like the parents should have been working with the kid to help him empathize with the teacher being in charge of 20-30 kids all day and all the other kids in line.  And at the end of the day, it's really not that big a deal.  I think there's a difference between helping your child deal with a situation like this and allowing your child to feel like a victim by escalating something that really is small potatoes.

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Listening to him about it and maybe even bringing it up with the teacher seems fine and good to me - I would have put it in the context of helping him transition to this new situation of having skipped a grade.  Teacher sounds a little inflexible and uncaring toward such little kids, but we're really only hearing one side.  She doesn't sound "unfair" - that's for sure.

 

But going to the principal?  Thinking about homeschooling mainly over a lining up issue!?!  Good grief.  No.  just no.

 

In the end, I think a kid that age can learn to adjust to the line order and, in fact, should.  I'm not saying don't sympathize or be sensitive to the fact that these things can feel really big to little kids, but this will not be the biggest injustice of his young life.

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Honestly this mother should homeschool because I'm sure this is just the beginning of her struggles with the system. And I don't think the teacher or the principal is being unfair. The teacher rules the class and she gets to decide the system that works best for her. Switching at the semester sounds fair. In the grand scheme of things, life at the back is okay (says the "W" who was always in the back of the classroom instead of up front!). It really doesn't sound like the boy has the maturity to survive second grade yet. We have a very sharp niece whose parents put her in private school a year early. Her life is pretty miserable with lots of bullying because she is the youngest, even though she is the same size as the others and is clearly able to do that level of work. It's making her hate school. There is so much at school that parents can't control; if you can't live with that or help your child grow through those experiences, perhaps it's best to homeschool if that is a feasible option for you.

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But a 7 year kid is not a big kid. Even if the fear or upset seems like no big deal to others it can be a very real and very big deal to a small CHILD.

As a general rule the line being alphabetized is not a big deal for me. But I am not a 7 year old boy who is upset by it.

Perhaps because I have a child with a neurological difference who can be quite sensitive, I try to take my kids concerns seriously and acknowledge them as valid even if they seem small to adult eyes. This doesn't mean the line order has to change or that the solution can't be talking up the positives of being at the back of the line. But I wouldn't write it off as no big deal.

As the youngest child in the grade without knowing other kids is it possible that his fears are allayed not by being at the front of the line but by being in proximity to the teacher? It's possible that he is being teased or bullied and it's manifesting as anxiety about being at the back of the line (far from the eyes of the teacher). Many kids that age won't say a word if they are being bullied at school. They will just develop problems and resistance to going to school.

I don't think I'd make this my hill to die on but I'd try to figure out what is bothering him about it. It may or may not be about being "last".

What about the kids in the middle? They never get to be first. :) mountain molehill.

As far as the walking from lunch. I used to so that all the time at my boys' school without issue. However, I might cut some slack at the beginning if the year as routines are developed.

My feeling lies with these two posts.
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Yea, she needs to get a life. My kids are 'W's. One went K-12, one K-5., the third only K3. If that upset me I would certainly be a basket case by now. I also didn't throw a fit when my geeky son was always picked last in sports. It's life.

 

If she doesn't homeschool for a better reason then that it is going to be a really long year. If you are really her friend, I would try to let her know.

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I think she should focus more on helping him deal with a situation neither he nor she is in control of. 

 This. 

I think having a consistent system of lining up is fine. I understand why a little kid who just skipped a grade and is at the back of the line with a new cohort would have negative feelings associated with that. But as a mother, it is my job to help my kids work through their feelings about situations, fair and not. Demanding a change in an institutional process to cater to the sensibilities of a six year old doesn't help that, and it probably ensures he will be slighted in the future as the kid with "that mom". 

 

Plus, imagine the poor Jones and McDonald kids who are stuck, invisible, in the middle all.year.long. Yeah, probably everyone needs therapy stemming (metaphorically) from their place in the line, all for different reasons. 

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It wouldn't be a big deal to me as an adult but I can see where it could be to a child.  My youngest I could see being very upset by it.  He would be in the middle never being in front or back.  And in the life of a child that age, a half a year is a very long time.  While I as a parent would talk to my child about life not being fair, I would also think that maybe the teacher could be a bit more flexible.  I get the teachers often make decisions based on making things easiest for them and keeping order, and I get that, but some children really do require more hand holding, especially in younger grades.  I am always grateful that my lower elementary teachers were so caring or I may never have made it through.  I was a very sensitive child and telling me to just toughen up and get over it would have just pushed me more into my shell.

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That isn't a big deal to me and I wouldn't be asking to change it if was happening with my dc. I think the kids in dd's school line up in order every day and some kids were probably always in the back. It definitely would not be a battle I would pick. My kids can be very sensitive but even so I don't think everyone has to change for them or be on eggshells nor do I think it is good for them. Life is disappointing and unfair sometimes. Kids can learn to deal with those feelings. Bending to their every whim is not good in the long run. That said I would acknowledge his feelings and talk to him to see if there is another underlying reason for the strong feelings about it. I am guessing he is a little anxious about a new class with all new kids and a sudden change.

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My maiden name started with a "W".  I used to joke with the girl whose last name started with a "Z" that we needed to marry someone whose last name was Aardvark!

 

Chiming in to agree that I think it's small potatoes, but I can understand how that would be the straw that broke the camel's back if she's already faced a lot of opposition over grade-skipping him.  With the caveat that I don't have a 7-year-old boy of my own, I think it's an odd thing to be really upset over and that there must be something else going on.  The stress of dealing with advanced expectations with an entirely new group of kids?  Bias from the teacher or staff since he was skipped?  Some misconception of the child's own from hearing the discussions about grade-skipping? 

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IMHO..... the mother is making a mountain out of a molehill. This is a dumb thing to fight about. The boy will have his chance later in the year. The mother looks like she is creating a Special Snowflake, even if that is not her intention. 

 

:iagree:  I wonder how much it really bothered the kid before mom made such a big deal of it.  They switch for the second half of the year, so then the kid who is first now will be last.  Should he complain that he doesn't like it?   I don't think the teacher should be expected to put a lot of energy into finding a "fair" way to change up the line on a frequent basis.  It's silly.

 

I remember when I was in elementary school, we usually lined up by last name but in 3rd and 4th grade my teachers did separate lines for boys and girls and they were by height.  In third grade I was second shortest in the class, in fourth grade I was the tallest girl.  Which meant I had to stand next to the tallest boy - a mean bully who had been held back two or three times.    The teacher didn't change things all year and none of the other girls grew enough to knock me out of last place.  :sad:

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Well, to me it sounds that she is just choosing this to be the mountain she dies on. She has issues with the school and they are mounting on her conscience.

 

My last straw with our school was my son being assigned in school suspicion for something I notified the school about and brought to their attention and had already disciplined at home for 2 weeks prior. I chose that mountain to die on. It wasn't the only reason or issue but it was what ignited my spark to raging inferno. I am sure to many it looked quite petty.

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It sounds like he is not mature enough to be in 2nd grade. Which is not shocking.

 

I think homeschooling is a great option for that mom . She is combative towards the school which likely reflected her attitude before this issue arose.

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Well, to me it sounds that she is just choosing this to be the mountain she dies on. She has issues with the school and they are mounting on her conscience.

 

My last straw with our school was my son being assigned in school suspicion for something I notified the school about and brought to their attention and had already disciplined at home for 2 weeks prior. I chose that mountain to die on. It wasn't the only reason or issue but it was what ignited my spark to raging inferno. I am sure to many it looked quite petty.

 

This makes sense to me, especially combined with the OP's sharing that it's kind of a betrayal of family culture for this mother to consider homeschooling. Maybe she needs a final straw, even if it's not the most impressive to the watching world.

 

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I think the issue with not putting him in another 2nd grade class is the admin can be rude, they are strict, and they have run off some good teachers because of it.

 

I'm not saying the admin in this school aren't generally jerks.  But I do know that when my child was in K and 1st the personalities and numbers in the classrooms were distributed very carefully.  It would have been hard if a parent of maybe a younger for grade and having a harder time kid just wanted to dump the child in another class.  It would have had one class slightly smaller and one slightly larger, possibly with a more demanding personality in the classroom.  I volunteered heavily my son's 1st grade year.  My son's 1st grade teacher had 2 extremely challenging kids in the classroom, and one more would have really changed everyone's year.  I do know at least one shift that had to happen while we were there, but it wasn't taken lightly.  The administration also doesn't want to have a situation where every involved parent is going to want to hand pick their child's teacher over the tiniest altercation. 

 

I'm not relaying this to your friend's situation necessarily.  I just think classroom dynamics like this aren't necessarily as straightforward as they seem sometimes, especially in the younger grades, where the kids are kind of oblivious and the parents don't necessarily get to see all the day to day dynamics. 

 

I just think if your child is going to attend a particular school, you have to pick your battles.  My battle was trying to get some academic challenge for my own kid to keep him somewhat engaged and that was hard enough.  And I mostly failed anyway - lol.  Hence the homeschooling!  

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Haven't read all responses. My maiden name began with W and I skipped a grade. So, I was the youngest, least mature and last for anything that called for alphabetical order. Alphabetical order is used A LOT in school.

 

If mom is making a big deal out of this, school is just going to be horrible, long, painful experience. This is not a reason to homeschool. If it is the reason she decides to homeschool there will be other (many other) things like this she encounters elsewhere.

 

Gosh, what about the kids in the middle who never get first or last. First and last get noticed and that's better than being ignored.

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The boy's immaturity is showing and his mom is a bully.  It is a line and the world does not revolve around him and life is not fair-- and will never be fair.

 

Principals manage school (business) affairs and teachers.

Assistant principals are the official liaison between parents/students and the school.  They are not a lesser person than the principal-- they have a different job description.

At least this is how it was in all of the districts I have worked in.

 

The principal will side with the teacher.  It is his job to do so.

 

It is extremely RARE for a student to be allowed to switch classes.  Most rosters are already balanced (similar number of students in each class).  Also-- if this was allowed it would be a HUGE headache for the administration as people are petty. 

 

 

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He just skipped a grade. He isn't going to be first any more; not in line, not in academics, not in sports, not in social situations. This is a big adjustment. He has just gone from being the big cheeze advanced student in K to being the little guy who doesn't know more than anyone else in 2. It can't be easy. I'm not surprised that he is having trouble transitioning.

 

The mom sounds controling and entitled. I think the teacher and principle are wise to set boundaries with her.

 

It is too bad that she set up a confrontational dynamic because they could be a great resource for her right now.

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Guest submarines

I think it is fine, *for a school* and if I sent my children to school,  it wouldn't occur to me to set a meeting about this. I'd prepare my children to deal, and would hope that they'd deal.

 

However, it is not fine for my children, because at the age of 7 my children weren't ready for this kind of institutionalized rigidity and neither I think it is important for them to "learn" it at 7. When they are older, they won't care how they line up, if they have to line up.

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I think the mom is completely unreasonable. There is nothing wrong with the teacher's lining up system. And it is not the norm for 2nd graders to have mommy walk back to class with them. It will make the other students look at her child as being younger, when mom should be helping him learn to fit in. This is not something that a decent principal would agree to move a child to another class for. If this is the type of thing causes one to say the admin is not good, then that is ridiculous. Just cannot imagine contacting admin about something like this.

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If the situation is truly as it's described, the teacher is fair and the mom needs to get a grip.  I understand being upset with a school system over many thing, but this isn't one of them.  This is a waste of the principal's time and a completely fair system that the teacher has devised.

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The child is young, and his sensitivity is within expectations for his age. It's ok for him to not like the trivialities of school life. It's ok for unpleasant things to happen to him.

 

In this situation it seems a lot like he's too young to cope well with the social dynamics of a 2nd grade classroom. I imagine in a group of his peers (grade 1) they might be "babied" a little longer. This mom was told it would be a problem, and has discovered it is a problem... And now wants grade-1 special treatment for her grade-1 aged child, but in a grade-2 classroom. That's unreasonable.

 

It's a package deal: advanced academics with less sensitive handing in grade 2, or grade 1 academics with sensitivity for younger children. She can pick one, not demand the best of both worlds.

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She wants to switch classrooms because the teacher lines the kids up alphabetically? Really?

 

We lined up alphabetically all through elementary, never flip flopped the alphabet. I made it through without alphabetical therapy.

 

 

LOL…I was always in the middle, no matter what.  Last name, first name, you name it…middle.  (Both start with the same letter.)

 

I think I'll go call my therapist.  

 

 

 

As for the OP: I think it's nice that the teacher switches things up.  I'd explain things to my son, and hopefully that would be that.  I'm assuming that they haven't been in school very long as of yet, so hopefully he'll get over it. 

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The child is young, and his sensitivity is within expectations for his age. It's ok for him to not like the trivialities of school life. It's ok for unpleasant things to happen to him.

 

In this situation it seems a lot like he's too young to cope well with the social dynamics of a 2nd grade classroom. I imagine in a group of his peers (grade 1) they might be "babied" a little longer. This mom was told it would be a problem, and has discovered it is a problem... And now wants grade-1 special treatment for her grade-1 aged child, but in a grade-2 classroom. That's unreasonable.

 

It's a package deal: advanced academics with less sensitive handing in grade 2, or grade 1 academics with sensitivity for younger children. She can pick one, not demand the best of both worlds.

 

Well said!

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Sounds like the school was right all along. Kid isn't mature enough to be in 2nd grade. Tbh, the mom doesn't sound too mature either. 

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