PeacefulChaos Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 A friend of mine who is a teacher said that if I see one of the boys select a wrong answer, I should (or at least, teachers are encouraged to) say something regarding 'remember how we ___ for ____?' or something, and repeat the question. :001_huh: I didn't do that. At all. I feel like it would be cheating. I feel like, for me to give them this test, I should be just reading the questions (or getting them started, whichever is required at that part of the test) and sitting passively if they get something wrong. I assumed that was the norm...????? :confused: I just got everything ready to send in the standardized tests for my boys, but part of me is, I have to admit, a little nervous. I really don't know why... I'm sure they'll do fine. But I can't help but think, what if everyone else is coaching their kids through it? Would that end up with my kids scoring low? :( I'd say they each got maybe 15 wrong on the entire test (it was the CAT - and some of them... :svengo: .... but oh, well), which sounds like a lot to me, but... ugh. I know they have been learning so much. I know they know enough to do well. I don't know, I guess it's just weird nerves or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 No. I don't say one word. I sit there with a complete poker face. The only thing I do like this is, before I've handed out the test, I remind my kid that they may encounter something they've never seen before or don't know, not to get hung up on it and to skip over it if necessary and come back to it when they finish that portion. That's it. And I felt nervous sending in my son's test. It was fine. I think it's natural to feel nervous because in a way, it is *our* test, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy the Valiant Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 No. I was a school teacher before we had kids, and I *NEVER* did this for my students, nor would I. I agree that it is a form of cheating. Realizing others do it still doesn't make it sit right with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 I'm so glad to hear this. I was just thinking maybe I was the only one, and by not 'coaching' my kids through it, I would be 'doing them a disservice' (only according to standardized test scores... not according to their actual education. ;) ) This is making me feel a little better already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embassy Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 If a child is coached then the test is invalid. Standardized means the test is given the same way to every child. This is why you are given exact words to say and time limits. If others are coaching their kids it would not impact on your child's score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenL Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 No way. That is cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 No way. That is cheating. :iagree: I'm shocked a teacher would suggest it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Isn't the point of the test to see what the kid has retained? That totally sounds like cheating. We've chosen portfolio reviews over testing, but I would not do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I remind dd to slow down and read the instructions or the questions. She has a tendency to go really fast. I don't look at what she is doing. I've noticed that she does score better on tests when I remind her to slow down than when I just hand her the test and ignore what she is doing. I suppose it is a form of cheating, since I'm not likely to be in the room to tell her to slow down when she takes any high stakes testing.....but honestly dd is eight years old so I'm a bit conflicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 No way. That is cheating. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happymomofboys Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) No. That's cheating. I don't worry about a few problems. My son took the 4th grade CAT-E Survey this year and bombed the computational math section because he was in a sour mood that day and just didn't feel like working the problems out on scratch paper. :rolleyes: Oh well. That was his choice. I know he knows how to work the problems, and as long as his composite score is above the 33rd percentile, I'm good with my state. Even with that bombed section, his composite score was well above the cut-off. Next year, I'll let him decide when he's ready to do the computational math section. Edited June 2, 2012 by happymomofboys typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Absolutely not. That is cheating. I can't imagine who is "encouraging" teachers to do this. It invalidates the test results for the entire group. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petepie2 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Last year when my DD was taking the Woodcock-Johnson, I was sitting at the table while the administrator was doing the testing. On one math section, she was supposed to keep working until she didn't know how to do the math. Well, she stopped long before she should have and said, "I don't know how to do this." Yes, I wanted to jump across the table, but I just sat there. She scored "average" on that part of the test. Now this year I told her beforehand that she had better work until she saw something that looked Greek to her! Needless to say, she had great improvements in her math score this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 If a child is coached then the test is invalid. Standardized means the test is given the same way to every child. This is why you are given exact words to say and time limits. If others are coaching their kids it would not impact on your child's score. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 A friend of mine who is a teacher said that if I see one of the boys select a wrong answer, I should (or at least, teachers are encouraged to) say something regarding 'remember how we ___ for ____?' or something, and repeat the question. :001_huh: I didn't do that. At all. I feel like it would be cheating. I agree with you. Doing what your friend described is the same kind of activity that is getting teachers fired in Atlanta with the big cheating scandal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I would have been fired for such a thing in the PS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 No way. That is cheating. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calimom04 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 No I do not say a thing. Although sometimes I would like to when I know she knows something but I keep a straight face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 No, teachers are *NOT* encouraged to do that. :confused: Entire companies exist just to monitor test results to make sure teachers are not doing such things (fascinating methods to read about if you are into statistics and psychology,) and teachers are fired for such behavior. What she is describing might be a cheating culture that has evolved in her school, but it will be found out eventually. I am incredibly relieved to see the poll results (0-30-0 right now.) Homeschoolers fought long and hard to be able to give these tests on our own (it was only a few years ago that we could only give the Stanford with a group of non-relatives testing as well, for example,) and there is always that cloud of doubt over homeschoolers test scores. We need to follow the rules. And, finally, you only cheat yourself. You paid for the test; you might as well get real results that might help you in some way. It will be fine; send it in. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjx2khsmj Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I always follow the directions as given. I can't imagine that it would benefit anyone if I didn't. The scores don't matter at all to me. I tell my children to do their best because the scores are submitted to the public school officials to show that we are learning what we need to learn. If my children understood that I was cheating in order for them to perform better I have no clue how I'd explain that. I worked in the public school system. As much as we hated the role of standardized testing, we were professional educators and administered the tests as professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I always follow the directions as given. :iagree: And the CAT comes with *explicit* instructions on what to say if a child asks for help. You say something very vague like, "Make your best choice and mark your answer." If they finish early, the directions also say something about, "If you have more time, you may check your answers again." Those are the only kind of "coaching" allowed. I follow the script to the letter with my son. I try not to even look at his page lest I inadvertently signal something with body language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoVanGogh Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 And, finally, you only cheat yourself. You paid for the test; you might as well get real results that might help you in some way.:iagree: I am in a non-reg state, but give the ITBS because 1.) I want DC to know how to take a test and 2.) I want to judge how we are doing academically. If I coached, it would be cheating myself first and foremost. Why spend the time and money if I won't get accurate results? Granted, there are times (like an OP mentioned) that I was mentally banging my head against a wall because of a silly error or brain lapse. But that is part of the learning process of taking a standardized test. That all said... We attended a neighborhood pool party last year and I got in a conversation with two neighbors - both middle school teachers in the same school. They talked about how they walked around the room during tests and handed out pieces of candy while they "coached" the students. I don't know what I was more shocked over - handing out candy during a test or the coaching. They acted like it was the norm, encouraged by the principal, and not the least bit unethical. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemyboys Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 No way. That is cheating. Totally agree. We review some basics the week before -- times tables, math algorithms, general rules for caps, etc. -- briefly. But when testing starts -- No Way! It's cheating, doesn't really help the child, doesn't matter in the overall scheme of things and sets a bad precedent..... I think we all cringe when/if we're nearby the child and see errors, but that's the way it goes. And sometimes the results come back with a portion that's less than stellar, but hey, that just gives us something to work on and be humble about, right? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 No, but I did do a quick prep session for the part of the CogAT where the student has to imagine folding a piece of paper, punching hole(s) in it, and then choosing what it would look like unfolded. I didn't use the actual test questions, of course, but it seemed like such an oddball task that I didn't want DD to go into it without having practiced the skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoGal Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I gave my kids the Stanford test and it was really hard not to say anything sometimes! There were a few questions they wanted to talk about and explained their reasoning for. I did a lot of shrugging/blank looks. The most I said was "just pick the answer you think is the best." It was really hard to keep a straight face for one question ds answered. It was a social studies question. I can't repeat it, but the answer he chose was pretty funny and I had to keep myself from laughing/showing anything as he reasoned it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 A friend of mine who is a teacher said that if I see one of the boys select a wrong answer, I should (or at least, teachers are encouraged to) say something regarding 'remember how we ___ for ____?' or something, and repeat the question. :001_huh: I didn't do that. At all. I feel like it would be cheating. I feel like, for me to give them this test, I should be just reading the questions (or getting them started, whichever is required at that part of the test) and sitting passively if they get something wrong. I assumed that was the norm...????? :confused:I just got everything ready to send in the standardized tests for my boys, but part of me is, I have to admit, a little nervous. I really don't know why... I'm sure they'll do fine. But I can't help but think, what if everyone else is coaching their kids through it? Would that end up with my kids scoring low? :( I'd say they each got maybe 15 wrong on the entire test (it was the CAT - and some of them... :svengo: .... but oh, well), which sounds like a lot to me, but... ugh. I know they have been learning so much. I know they know enough to do well. I don't know, I guess it's just weird nerves or something... Heck, no. I don't even do that with practice testing, which we are doing this week. After he is done and has handed it in, I simply circle any wrong answers or any badly worded things and make him do it again. And again. If it's an area he did not learn, we go over it. But coaching THROUGH a test. No, that's cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 No way. Not when I was a homeschooler and not as a teacher. What's the *point* of standardized tests if they are coached? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 [quote name=angela in ohio; I am incredibly relieved to see the poll results (0-30-0 right now.) Homeschoolers fought long and hard to be able to give these tests on our own (it was only a few years ago that we could only give the Stanford with a group of non-relatives testing as well' date=' for example,) and there is always that cloud of doubt over homeschoolers test scores. We need to follow the rules. And, finally, you only cheat yourself. You paid for the test; you might as well get real results that might help you in some way. It will be fine; send it in. :001_smile:[/quote] that's what I was thinking! (first paragraph - I haven't figured out how to select text to bold it on my iPad :) ) I would hate to think that after all that homeschoolers have done to show that we are responsible, something like that would become prevalent. :( I gave my kids the Stanford test and it was really hard not to say anything sometimes! There were a few questions they wanted to talk about and explained their reasoning for. I did a lot of shrugging/blank looks. The most I said was "just pick the answer you think is the best." It was really hard to keep a straight face for one question ds answered. It was a social studies question. I can't repeat it, but the answer he chose was pretty funny and I had to keep myself from laughing/showing anything as he reasoned it out. Yes, my kids tried to do that, too. :) I just sat and looked at them and said, choose what you think... I followed what the instruction sheet said to the letter lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 A *teacher* said that?!?! No, that's totally cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawana Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 No way! It is cheating, plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 If a child is coached then the test is invalid. Standardized means the test is given the same way to every child. This is why you are given exact words to say and time limits. If others are coaching their kids it would not impact on your child's score. :iagree: Coaching a child would be cheating and wouldn't let me know how much my child knows or has retained which would be the whole point of testing in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujsky Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I don't coach them, but if my son needs it, I will give him extra time. He has ADHD and a nonverbal learning disorder. If he was in public school, he would probably have a 504 plan (he's not bad enough off for an IEP) that would allow him extra time on things like standardized tests. I did inwardly cringe at some of the mistakes he made when he was rushing through the test though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeegal Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Other: My kids test with a bunch of other homeschooled kids in the county. I don't have to keep a full house quiet, and I don't have to worry about accidently coaching my kids through the testing. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I don't at all. I still cringe at the thought of a person I know who, the week or so before, gives her kids the spelling words on the standardized test she has them take. I do look over the test after I give it, before I hand it in, so I can see how she did. No correcting or anything, of course. And I don't tell her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda in TX Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 No. We're in the midst of testing right now and DD did not understand one of the graphs in a math problem and asked me a question. My answer was, "I'm sorry. I cannot help you with the test." She was frustrated, but understanding the graph was part of the test! I want accurate results. Testing is not required here. The main reason I do it is so that I can find weak areas that need to be worked on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higginszoo Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 As a test administrator, it is usually VERY, VERY clear in the instructions to administer the test that that sort of behavior is strictly forbidden. If a child seems frustrated with a particular test question, I make a general announcement that it is ok to move on and come back to a question later, and that it is a good idea to check your work anyway if you finish with time remaining. This is true whether I have a group or it is only one of my own dc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 No. I was a school teacher before we had kids, and I *NEVER* did this for my students, nor would I. I agree that it is a form of cheating. Realizing others do it still doesn't make it sit right with me. :iagree: I also was a PS teacher, and we were NOT allowed to coach the students during testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 As a test administrator, it is usually VERY, VERY clear in the instructions to administer the test that that sort of behavior is strictly forbidden. If a child seems frustrated with a particular test question, I make a general announcement that it is ok to move on and come back to a question later, and that it is a good idea to check your work anyway if you finish with time remaining. This is true whether I have a group or it is only one of my own dc. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I would have been fired for such a thing in the PS. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Totally agree that it's cheating to coach. I'm also not a big fan of using the word coach as a euphemism for cheating. As an aside, how can I get these tests you all speak of? :D I have printed off some old TAKS tests from online and given the kids those but I would like to give them something like the ITBS or whatever else is standard these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) I just administered the ITBS to younger dd and I do not coach. She asks, but I don't help. I did stop the time and have her fix a bubble mistake because she had two filled in on one line. The ITBS instructions actually say to stop the time and allow the student to correct the mistake. Edited June 2, 2012 by Horton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Last year when my DD was taking the Woodcock-Johnson, I was sitting at the table while the administrator was doing the testing. On one math section, she was supposed to keep working until she didn't know how to do the math. Well, she stopped long before she should have and said, "I don't know how to do this." Yes, I wanted to jump across the table, but I just sat there. She scored "average" on that part of the test. Now this year I told her beforehand that she had better work until she saw something that looked Greek to her! Needless to say, she had great improvements in her math score this year. This is me. I take mental notes for future test prep, but I don't give correction or direction during the test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 No, I've always followed the proctoring the test guide and I've never had one that prompted a student for anything other than basic instructions like use a #2 pencil, fill in the bubbles, etc. My two have taken the CAT, and ITBS tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 If a child seems frustrated with a particular test question, I make a general announcement that it is ok to move on and come back to a question later, and that it is a good idea to check your work anyway if you finish with time remaining. This is true whether I have a group or it is only one of my own dc. This is the type of help I give. My oldest is only 10, and has only had to take 2 standardized tests so far. Looking back, I gave her too many reminders on the first one. The 2nd one I didn't give her any reminders or help at all, except what was mentioned above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson'smama Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 my ds took his first CAT yesterday and i did not do this. as pp have said, it would feel like cheating to me. i even felt a little weird at the beginning of each section saying, "take your time and read carefully" - simply b/c it didn't say that in the booklet and otherwise, i read that little script verbatim! ...well, until he told me "i already know how to fill in the little circles. you don't have to keep telling me!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyinTN Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Absolutely not...that to me is just cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phathui5 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 No. It doesn't feel right to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie in Ma Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Absolutely not, it is flat out cheating. As a test administrator for our local hs group I might make general statements such as, if you are stuck, move on and go back to it. But coach them through an answer? No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmom2011 Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 No way. That is cheating. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I coach him in hurrying on, and marking his paper correctly. I don't know that it helps much :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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