I angered a piano teacher today and I can't get why. Can I ask you all...?

[MaryElizabeth]

I called a local music store to get some names of potential piano teachers for my son and I today. The store owner gave me about 5 names/numbers. I called a few today. I left a message for one this AM and she returned my call this evening. I explained to her that I had taken piano as a child but that I didn't learn to read music well as I had a teacher who made the mistake of playing my pieces for me and since I played by ear, I could play them back to her.....and, that in short, I needed to start over on my learning the rigors/theory and that I was also interested in finding an instructor for my son. I asked her about her background in music. She told me about her college degree and that she had taught piano for 18 years. My next question, "Do you have any plans to retire soon?" (now keep in mind I've NEVER laid eyes on this lady so I have no idea if she's 20 or 90 years old). She got offended and said, "Are you writing a book or something?" I replied, "No. I'm interested in finding a teacher that will stay with my son in his early years to have more continuity in his instruction." She acted really miffed and ended the conversation with something like "I hope you find the teacher you're looking for" and hung up.

 

I figured if I'm about to spend $1500/year per person (3000 total for us both) x 13+ years (if my son takes til 18), then that's about $40000! I don't know this lady from Adam having never heard of her (or any on the list for that matter). I just figured it was customary to find out some basic information. I literally asked her two questions.

 

So....I can tell she and I already clash and aren't a good fit if she's this easily offended, but I'm just curious now if anyone else thinks that what I asked her was offensive.

[Sophia]

It wasn't you.

She obviously was having a bad day.

 

Keep calling others.

[BMW]

The only thing I could say is, when you ask the other potential teachers, phrase the question along with why you are asking... "I am interested in a long-term teacher for my son to grow up with. Do you have any plans to retire or leave the area in the next several years?"

 

You didn't do anything really wrong, from how you shared it, imo.

 

Best wishes! I loved the years the kids took piano!

[Anne Rittenhouse]

Yes, you basically asked her "How old are you?", which is illegal if you were hiring her as a business. In fact you are hiring an independent contractor. And yes, I would be very offended if asked. This is something that is easily assessed with a personal meeting before the contract is written. I assume after weeding out the phone list you would have a "short" list of two or three people for an "intro" meeting.

 

The other thing you should know is that the piano teacher that is right for your son now, as a beginner, is not the same teacher he will need after he has studied for 3-4 years, and yet again not the same teacher he will need after 7-8 years, depending upon his time, talent, and interest. Also the teacher you need as an adult, who can play be ear, is not the same teacher your son needs at this time. Yes, it would be very neat and cosy to hire the same darling piano teacher for the two of you and have back to back lessons for the two of you for the next 13 years, but you shouldn't view it that way at all. You need to consider your instructor for each year of study. (Note: I did not say change, but consider if he or she is meeting your student's needs each year.) Don't expect a long term relationship especially if your son shows talent. You will need to "grow" in instruction level as your son grows in his musicanship. Any good teacher knows this.

 

You should have two different people and two different lesson times. As an adult with some previous experience you will progress much faster than your son. At no time do you want to appear to be in "competition" with his studies. You need to keep your studies clealy separate from his. I would actually suggest two different instruments (piano/violin or piano/clarinet or piano/trumpet) if you insist on returning to your music studies at this time or delaying your return to music until your son is well established with his own work and abilities.

 

Just my own, harsh opinion, for what it is worth. -Anne

Edited October 21, 2010 by Anne Rittenhouse

[Jean in Newcastle]

I do not see anything offensive in what you asked or how you asked it. I would cross her off of my list.

[Parrothead]

Ow. That old rule about never asking a lady her age still applies to many people. I know lots of ladies of a certain age that would have acted pretty much the same way to that question.

 

I would skip the question on a phone interview. See if you can meet your top picks in person for just a few moments. Then maybe work it into the conversation as how much you are looking forward to working with her for many years.

[ColoradoMom]

"Are you writing a book or something?" LOL...other people's kids...err piano teachers. Don't let her get to you - it must be a sore spot for her. Even so, you'd think she could muster up some professionalism and find another way to handle herself.

 

I'm sorry but if you volunteer that you've been teaching piano for 18 years then you have no right to be offended when people ask if you will retire soon. Most people would NOT be offended and would laugh it off, even if they were, and say something like "Goodness no! I love my job." Or "Oh, I am way too young for that!" or even "I can't afford to retire with this economy!" would be better than what she did.

 

Definitely keep looking! :D

[atara]

I don't think your question was a big deal, but I would have understood what you were really asking. Be prepared, that life happens and just because you start with someone doesn't mean even you would stay with them. Or, sometimes their life changes and they may have to leave you. Long term lessons are something you can always have because you can find another teacher.

 

I disagree with pp about different teachers for son and mother. I would go in to the interview, and/or have a few lessons with both you and child. See how it goes and then decide if you need a change. I think if you have a good teacher who attends conventions, keeps current on certifications, etc. you will most probably have a teacher who can adapt to changing needs as you both grow. This is even more solidified if you love the teacher and have a good report. I've seen people change teachers for pedagogical reasons and were miserable. If the time comes that you want/need a change, either your or the teacher will know it.

 

I know it's tempting to plan the next 18 years with one person, but try to stay in the moment with each teacher.

Edited October 21, 2010 by atara

[asta]

Yes, you basically asked her "How old are you?", which is illegal if you were hiring her as a business. In fact you are hiring an independent contractor. And yes, I would be very offended if asked. This is something that is easily assessed with a personal meeting before the contract is written. I assume after weeding out the phone list you would have a "short" list of two or three people for an "intro" meeting.

 

The other thing you should know is that the piano teacher that is right for your son now, as a beginner, is not the same teacher he will need after he has studied for 3-4 years, and yet again not the same teacher he will need after 7-8 years, depending upon his time, talent, and interest. Also the teacher you need as an adult, who can play be ear, is not the same teacher your son needs at this time. Yes, it would be very neat and cosy to hire the same darling piano teacher for the two of you and have back to back lessons for the two of you for the next 13 years, but you shouldn't view it that way at all. You need to consider your instructor for each year of study. (Note: I did not saw change, but consider if he or she is meeting your student's needs each year.) Don't expect a long term relationship especially if your son shows talent. You will need to "grow" in instruction level as your son grows in his musicanship. Any good teacher knows this.

 

You should have two different people and two different lesson times. As an adult with some previous experience you will progress much faster than your son. At no time do you want to appear to be in "competition" with his studies. You need to keep your studies clealy separate from his. I would actually suggest two different instruments (piano/violin or piano/clarinet or piano/trumpet) if you insist on returning to your music studies at this time or delaying your return to music until your son is well established with his own work and abilities.

 

Just my own, harsh opinion, for what it is worth. -Anne

 

:iagree:

 

While the bagpipe teacher my son initially had was absolutely top-notch (one of the finest in the entire region), it was serendipitous that we moved when we did, age wise. His new teacher is younger and, although equally qualified, "hipper", so my (now teen) son responds to him better.

 

I think young kids respond well to mom/dad & grandma/grandpa types, teens respond well to late twenties/early 30s types, and adults respond well to whichever personality fits them.

 

And the whole keeping studies separate? Definitely.

 

 

a

[Renee in NC]

People get offended over the stupidest things. And they get over it.

 

When we had a business, a customer called one time because they had replaced their lawnmower blade and it wouldn't work. Trying to be nice and helpful, I asked the lady if it was on right side up (because putting it on upside down would do what she described.) She asked her dh and he said it was on right. I really was just trying to save them the trip and the $30 minimum charge.

 

She brought it in and told my dh that I had offended her dh by asking if it was on upside down.:confused: I never even talked to him! You know what? The stupid thing was on wrong!:lol:

 

The point it, different people have different triggers. I wouldn't have a problem with you asking me if I was planning to retire anytime soon (nor would my mother) but something else might offend me. I'd get over it, too.;)

[angela in ohio]

Yes, you basically asked her "How old are you?"

 

:iagree:

[hillfarm]

I guess I have a different take on the age-related thing. You are potentially planning to pay this woman a lot of money. IMO you have every right to inquire as to how long she plans to be available. You are not the one at fault here, she is. She had this one opportunity to impress you in what appears to be a competitive market (since you have other options). And yet she let her sense of vanity cause her to respond rudely to a prospective client.

 

Heaven forbid that you went to her for lessons and ever questioned her choice of music selection or asked if she could explain something another way. She probably would have thrown a piano at you. I would definitely steer clear of anyone so touchy and prickly.

 

Sure, she had the right to be offended. And you certainly have the right to take your business elsewhere. Being unpleasant comes at a high cost.

[Dianne-TX]

Her response would help me make the decision not to use her, no matter how good she is, because if she isn't patient in answering the questions of a potential student, then she likely won't be a good fit for a piano teacher who needs patience to teach. Like a PP said, maybe she was just having a bad day. What she might not realize is that not only did she lose you as a client, but now you will not recommend her to other people looking for piano teachers, so she just cost herself many potential clients. Mommas talk! ;)

[SquirrellyMama]

Should you have asked the question? Probably not. Especially on the phone. Should she have been offended? NO.

 

I was asked in an interview right after college if I planned on getting pregnant soon (I was getting married in a month). I'm not offended although that was a very inappropriate question. I understand why they asked but it shouldn't have been asked.

 

Kelly

[creekland]

Whether what you asked was right or wrong, someone that easily offended would never get my money. I'd always be worried about what I said/did and would more or less be walking on eggshells around them. That's simply not pleasant to me and I definitely wouldn't pay to be in that situation.

 

Some people are simply more trouble than they are worth - no matter the talent.

 

For future questions, I agree with the person that said to also ask about moving out of the area if you want a longer term teacher. Retirement isn't the only way to lose a teacher.

[Mary in VA]

I don't think the question is really age related at all, although the teacher took it that way. People can stop teaching for all sorts of reasons, moving, other employment, burn-out. She took it as, "How old are you?" which is not what you meant. You just needed to know if she was in this for the time you needed her. If she's that sensitive you are better off finding that out now and not hiring her.

 

Mary

 

ETA: There are certain questions that are illegal to ask if you are hiring an employee. Here you are contracting with someone, different thing , and I think you can legally ask anything you want to.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Mary in VA

[Harriet Vane]

Yes, you basically asked her "How old are you?", which is illegal if you were hiring her as a business. In fact you are hiring an independent contractor. And yes, I would be very offended if asked. This is something that is easily assessed with a personal meeting before the contract is written. I assume after weeding out the phone list you would have a "short" list of two or three people for an "intro" meeting.

 

The other thing you should know is that the piano teacher that is right for your son now, as a beginner, is not the same teacher he will need after he has studied for 3-4 years, and yet again not the same teacher he will need after 7-8 years, depending upon his time, talent, and interest. Also the teacher you need as an adult, who can play be ear, is not the same teacher your son needs at this time. Yes, it would be very neat and cosy to hire the same darling piano teacher for the two of you and have back to back lessons for the two of you for the next 13 years, but you shouldn't view it that way at all. You need to consider your instructor for each year of study. (Note: I did not say change, but consider if he or she is meeting your student's needs each year.) Don't expect a long term relationship especially if your son shows talent. You will need to "grow" in instruction level as your son grows in his musicanship. Any good teacher knows this.

 

You should have two different people and two different lesson times. As an adult with some previous experience you will progress much faster than your son. At no time do you want to appear to be in "competition" with his studies. You need to keep your studies clealy separate from his. I would actually suggest two different instruments (piano/violin or piano/clarinet or piano/trumpet) if you insist on returning to your music studies at this time or delaying your return to music until your son is well established with his own work and abilities.

 

Just my own, harsh opinion, for what it is worth. -Anne

 

:iagree:

[Angie in VA]

Well, when I found a music teacher for dc, she volunteered that she was a college graduate, had been married about 5 yrs, was in a house and was building another house. I realized: What's next? CHILDREN! So I just came out and asked her what her plans for teaching were once she had children.

 

Boy, that lady would have loved me, huh? :P

[T Baer]

[ My next question, "Do you have any plans to retire soon?" (now keep in mind I've NEVER laid eyes on this lady so I have no idea if she's 20 or 90 years old). She got offended and said, "Are you writing a book or something?" I replied, "No. I'm interested in finding a teacher that will stay with my son in his early years to have more continuity in his instruction." She acted really miffed and ended the conversation with something like "I hope you find the teacher you're looking for" and hung up.

 

I figured if I'm about to spend $1500/year per person (3000 total for us both) x 13+ years (if my son takes til 18), then that's about $40000! I don't know this lady from Adam having never heard of her (or any on the list for that matter). I just figured it was customary to find out some basic information. I literally asked her two questions.

 

 

friend has been asked this question too. In her professional opinion those are legitimate questions.

[Pippen]

I don't think the question is really age related at all, although the teacher took it that way. People can stop teaching for all sorts of reasons, moving, other employment, burn-out. She took it as, "How old are you?" which is not what you meant. You just needed to know if she was in this for the time you needed her. If she's that sensitive you are better off finding that out now and not hiring her.

.

 

I think by using the word "retire" it definitely implied age. When I left my job to have a family it wasn't referred to as retiring, nor is a move to a different location considered retiring. Retiring implies the end of a career.

 

I think different wording would have been better.

[cathmom]

Why would she think you were writing a book? :confused:

[kokotg]

I can understand someone being taken aback by the question, particularly if she didn't immediately understand what you were getting at, but as a professional she should really be able to handle an awkward question without getting flustered and defensive. I wouldn't want to deal on a weekly basis with someone so sensitive.

[Karen in CO]

Yes, you basically asked her "How old are you?", which is illegal if you were hiring her as a business. In fact you are hiring an independent contractor. And yes, I would be very offended if asked. This is something that is easily assessed with a personal meeting before the contract is written. I assume after weeding out the phone list you would have a "short" list of two or three people for an "intro" meeting.

 

 

 

Yep - that is the offensive and illegal part.

[Catwoman]

As others have already said, it sounds like the woman was offended by your retirement question because she assumed you thought she was old.

 

But I'm assuming you asked politely, and she certainly didn't respond in kind, which I think was rude.

 

She seemed to think that you should hire her for a potentially long-term teaching position based on her own availability, rather than on her qualifications, because when she asked if you were writing a book, it sounds like she resented being questioned about anything at all.

 

Piano teachers don't come cheap, and let's face it, there are lots of them out there, so you have every right to ask some questions to see if this woman would be a good fit for your family. Thankfully, you learned about this woman's unpleasant personality during the first phone call, so you were able to immediately cross her off your list of possible teachers.

 

If she'd been recommended to you by several friends and family members who'd used her services for years, I might say that she was probably just having a lousy day and that's why she took offense at the slightest little thing, but since she's a complete stranger to you, I can't imagine why she wouldn't have expected you to question her -- and I would think she would have been interested in the info about what type of teacher you were trying to find, to see if your family would be a good fit for her style of teaching.

 

I think you dodged a bullet. ;)

 

Cat

[plansrme]

There have been several posts implying that asking about retirement plans is illegal or would be if you were an employer. First of all, ADEA, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act does not apply to employers unless they have 20 or more employees. Even if you are an employer and have 5 employees, you are free to discriminate on the basis of age unless there is a state law that says otherwise.

 

Second of all, even if ADEA did apply, asking about retirement plans does not violate it. Nor does asking an employee for her age. Using her age (as long as it is over 40) as a basis for not hiring her would violate ADEA.

 

And I think the prospective piano teacher was a nitwit for being offended by such an excellent question. The OP should be happy that such idiocy was revealed so early in the process.

 

Terri

[Veritaserum]

I don't understand why she got offended. I agree that it could have been phrased better, but it didn't strike me as "how old are you" until some of the other posters mentioned it. I have recently chosen to take a leave of absence from private teaching that I do (not piano). I am in my 30s, but if I never go back then I guess I've retired. ;) If the nature of the classes I teach included a long-term element (the way piano lessons do), I would not be surprised or offended if someone asked questions about my long-term availability. People ask me all kinds of questions when calling to inquire about my classes. I can't remember ever being offended, even when bizarre and potentially inappropriate things are asked.

[PineFarmMom]

It wasn't you.

She obviously was having a bad day.

 

Keep calling others.

 

:iagree:

 

At least you've found out quickly that she'd be the easily offended type and you wouldn't want to deal with that weekly anyway. Your reasons were valid. I'm afraid, as a society, we have gotten to the point that the slightest glance can cause someone to get their panties in a wad...over nothing!!! :001_huh:

[flyingiguana]

I took violin lessons right along with my daughter for awhile. It was GREAT. The teacher was totally cool with it, and my daughter was thrilled that we had this thing in common. All three of us had a better understanding of where we all were because of it.

 

Then this teacher "retired" (actually, she was quite young -- she left for law school). My daughter and I started with the new teacher who replaced her. And once again, I was glad we were both taking lessons from the same teacher, but for a not so nice reason. This new teacher (who had loads more experience than the first teacher and played much better) really just wasn't all that good. And because I was taking lessons right along with my daughter, I knew it a whole lot sooner than I would have otherwise and was able to move my daughter out of there before she got turned off to violin entirely.

 

My daughter was pretty much a beginner when she started, while I was ahead of her by a number of years. It didn't matter. That first teacher was able to deal with both of us at our level. My daughter wasn't offended that I was so much better than her. I wasn't offended that my daughter learned so darn quickly and was in danger of catching up with me.

 

I've since heard from others who were taking lessons from that second teacher. They didn't think he was so great either. So it wasn't our peculiar mother-daughter lesson time slot that soured the relationship. He just didn't have a clue how to teach. And, oddly, he was asked to replace the first teacher because he had so many years experience teaching at a pricey conservatory in town.

[ma23peas]

I figured if I'm about to spend $1500/year per person (3000 total for us both) x 13+ years (if my son takes til 18), then that's about $40000! I don't know this lady from Adam having never heard of her (or any on the list for that matter). I just figured it was customary to find out some basic information. I literally asked her two questions.

 

I think you were just too intrusive..I took piano for 9 years all three of my children have had lessons for 5 years...the BEST recommendation for where to spend your money is going to be from her students..I never look for piano teachers by calling them directly...I find students I know and respect and ask who they like...most the times they have already been through 2-3 teachers and can help guide you...when I DO call a piano teacher I simply ask them what books they like to use, how much each lesson runs and how many recitals does she do each year...your questions just got progressively more and more personal..I could care less about their 'education' in music...many have phd's in music and can't teach worth a flip..

 

If anything, ask if they will give you a reference and call them with questions but again just keep the questions about what they "like" about their teacher, let them speak and do not grill about any negatives, it will put them in an awkward position...you can easily tell when someone tells you about likes if it's a match for you.

 

Tara

[Julie in CA]

I was asked in an interview right after college if I planned on getting pregnant soon (I was getting married in a month). I'm not offended although that was a very inappropriate question. I understand why they asked but it shouldn't have been asked.

 

Call me insensitive, but I've never been able to figure out *why* this should not be asked. :confused:

 

Talk about stacking the deck against the employer...

 

It's reasonable, from a business standpoint, to want to know if someone is planning (before they're even hired) to do something that would disrupt their service to you. That would include settling into a job and then immediately becoming pregnant/requiring maternity leave/possibly leaving after all, retirement, etc. The unplanned happens, but I think it's fair for the question to be asked, even if it's "Are you planning retirement in the near future?".

[Mary in VA]

There have been several posts implying that asking about retirement plans is illegal or would be if you were an employer. First of all, ADEA, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act does not apply to employers unless they have 20 or more employees. Even if you are an employer and have 5 employees, you are free to discriminate on the basis of age unless there is a state law that says otherwise.

 

Second of all, even if ADEA did apply, asking about retirement plans does not violate it. Nor does asking an employee for her age. Using her age (as long as it is over 40) as a basis for not hiring her would violate ADEA.

 

And I think the prospective piano teacher was a nitwit for being offended by such an excellent question. The OP should be happy that such idiocy was revealed so early in the process.

 

Terri

 

:iagree: Plus, she wasn't trying to hire her as an employee but as a contractor. She can ask her anything she wants and it wouldn't be illegal. Impolite maybe, but not illegal.

 

Mary

[unsinkable]

You might have gotten better info if you had expressed the question differently.

 

I don't think it's offensive. Considering she lost her cool that easily, I'd not want her as a teacher.

[unsinkable]

People get offended over the stupidest things. And they get over it.

 

When we had a business, a customer called one time because they had replaced their lawnmower blade and it wouldn't work. Trying to be nice and helpful, I asked the lady if it was on right side up (because putting it on upside down would do what she described.) She asked her dh and he said it was on right. I really was just trying to save them the trip and the $30 minimum charge.

 

She brought it in and told my dh that I had offended her dh by asking if it was on upside down.:confused: I never even talked to him! You know what? The stupid thing was on wrong!:lol:The point it, different people have different triggers. I wouldn't have a problem with you asking me if I was planning to retire anytime soon (nor would my mother) but something else might offend me. I'd get over it, too.;)

 

I think I remember you sharing this before! :lol:

[Crissy]

My next question, "Do you have any plans to retire soon?"

 

I don't find that to be an offensive question. Surely she knows the time and energy parents put into finding the right music instructor for their children.

Understanding whether or not a teacher plans to continue for at least a few more years is a legitimate concern.

 

A local violin instructor just surprised his students and their families with retirement. Four of my sons close friends from youth orchestra are without a teacher and struggling to find one with openings that fit their schedules.

[catz]

It probably wasn't worded in the correct way, but I think asking if someone plans to continue teaching in the area for the next several years is a totally valid question! There are lots of reasons besides retirement that could change - starting a family, grad school, moving away, or even moving across town.

 

I also agree with the comment about keeping an open mind in the future about changing teachers. My oldest is on his 3rd piano teacher and my youngest is on her 2nd violin teacher. Every change had it's own story! It is nice to find someone that will work well for you the first few years if possible (didn't happen for us for either kid unfortunately!). But you just never know.

 

My son's piano teacher is 64 and I am hoping he hangs in there for at least 8 more years! We just love him. :001_smile: We are encourage by the fact that he takes on a new student from his waiting list when he has an opening.

[LG Gone Wild]

I called a local music store to get some names of potential piano teachers for my son and I today. The store owner gave me about 5 names/numbers. I called a few today. I left a message for one this AM and she returned my call this evening. I explained to her that I had taken piano as a child but that I didn't learn to read music well as I had a teacher who made the mistake of playing my pieces for me and since I played by ear, I could play them back to her.....and, that in short, I needed to start over on my learning the rigors/theory and that I was also interested in finding an instructor for my son. I asked her about her background in music. She told me about her college degree and that she had taught piano for 18 years. My next question, "Do you have any plans to retire soon?" (now keep in mind I've NEVER laid eyes on this lady so I have no idea if she's 20 or 90 years old). She got offended and said, "Are you writing a book or something?" I replied, "No. I'm interested in finding a teacher that will stay with my son in his early years to have more continuity in his instruction." She acted really miffed and ended the conversation with something like "I hope you find the teacher you're looking for" and hung up.

 

I figured if I'm about to spend $1500/year per person (3000 total for us both) x 13+ years (if my son takes til 18), then that's about $40000! I don't know this lady from Adam having never heard of her (or any on the list for that matter). I just figured it was customary to find out some basic information. I literally asked her two questions.

 

So....I can tell she and I already clash and aren't a good fit if she's this easily offended, but I'm just curious now if anyone else thinks that what I asked her was offensive.

 

You know, it's not like you asked if she was a l@sbian or an old maid. What you posted didn't sound rude but only a natural follow up to the point that she had been teaching for close to 20 years. Even IF your question was rude (it wasn't) so what? She can't handle a question? Her response didn't even make sense!

 

You probably do have to be prepared to change teachers. Life happens.

[Saille]

I would probably have interpreted the question in a broader sense, using "retire" as a more polite term for "closing up shop". People might do this for a variety of reasons: job-related moves, pregnancy, loss of primary income and the need to go find a full-time job, or age. You wanted to know about continuity, not age per se.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

I wonder if maybe she is older and isn't getting new students because people think she will retire soon. That might make her sensitive about it. However, I don't think she had anything to be offended about.

[misscometa]

This can be look at in different ways, the most important question to ask is: Could I had asked the question in a different manner? Most probably so, but the piano teacher should of given this situation, the benefit of the doubt. I am a freelance designer, get asked all kinds of questions on a daily basis. Sometimes, I feel like the piano teacher, wanting to hang up the phone, but I also need to realize; I have a business. The customer always comes first, so If I don't like the question, I just go around it, give the potential customer the benefit of the doubt and move on. Otherwise, I could not only loose a customer, but a referral from the potential customer.

 

Hope this helps ;)

[Mejane]

"Are you writing a book?" Really? I'd have said, "Yes, and you won't be in it" - click. :glare:

[angela in ohio]

Call me insensitive, but I've never been able to figure out *why* this should not be asked. :confused:"

 

Because it's the law. Age is a protected class, and you can't discriminate against anyone for their age when you are hiring.

[angela in ohio]

I never look for piano teachers by calling them directly

 

This may also be part of it. It is common to get students on the recommendation of other students, so she may not be used to being asked a lot of questions up front like that, and it may have surprised her.

 

FWIW, we found a young teacher for my dd, and then she dropped most of her students after having a baby. On the other hand, our piano teacher is teaching past the point when some would retire, and she has lasted longer. It's really hard to tell.

[mhg]

She'd be off my list of potentials just b/c I'd thereafter not feel "free" to question/ask her anything else lest I step on her delicate ego. Regardless if it could have been worded "more perfectly" (it was JUST LESS THAN perfect), she shouldn't have acted so over the top. It's not like you said, "I heard you were old and crusty....you going to be around for a bit?" (by the way...I "retired" from my out-of-home work at age 30, so I don't think it was an inapropos question at all --- pretty benign IMO).

Edited October 21, 2010 by mhg

[Vida Winter]

The question may have bordered on too personal but she definitely overreacted. Plus, the person doing the hiring is not a company but an individual who cannot be expected to know and follow all the latest employment rules (companies regularly retrain their HR people). She sounds like someone who would be difficult to work with. Better to find out now than later and have to deal with the unpleasantness of firing her. I have no experience with piano lessons but have had to hire and fire people -- firing someone is agonizing so do your homework (references, references!!) and do a good job hiring.

 

ETA: Even better, when you find the person you are going to hire, make the first month or so a "no questions asked" trial period. Then if you have any reservations you can get out of it by simply saying it's not working. I know this is probably a little much for a piano teacher. It's something I wish I had done when hiring caregivers for an ill parent.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Dana in OR

[kalanamak]

I do not see anything offensive in what you asked or how you asked it. I would cross her off of my list.

 

:iagree: I know many people who retire in their 50s. Most piano teachers are doing some extra on the side while hubby has the "real job" and stop when they don't need the extra. I think it was a fair question.

[Alicia64]

I didn't read any posts, but just reading your post: I think your question makes total sense. I'd want to know too. In fact I think you were smart for thinking of it.

 

If this teacher is three years away from retiring and your child needs ten years of lessons -- well, you'd like to know ahead of time.

 

Either she's easily offended -- and who needs more of that in their life?? Or something recently happened involving the same subject that was really hard for her -- and your question was just a matter of bad timing. Which, of course, you couldn't have known.

 

I think we all need to learn to give people the benefit of the doubt and not hastily become offended and dismiss them.

 

I'm not a heavy person, but at the time I was a few pounds over what I am now and a coat I was wearing hung funny on me. Some poor guy at the airport made a comment about me expecting!!!! This was years before I even had kids. He was mortified, but I immediately knew that he was confused by my coat.

 

I think you're right to be confused by her being offended.

 

Alley

[DarlaS]

Because it's the law. Age is a protected class, and you can't discriminate against anyone for their age when you are hiring.

 

 

A piano teacher is not being "hired". A student and/or the student's family is not her employer. They are a business providing a service. If I ask the girl who does my hair if she's going to start a family soon, am I breaking the law?

[angela in ohio]

A piano teacher is not being "hired". A student and/or the student's family is not her employer. They are a business providing a service. If I ask the girl who does my hair if she's going to start a family soon, am I breaking the law?

 

Did you read the post I was replying to? Julie was asking about why employers can't ask about age. I wasn't talking about the piano teacher.

Edited October 22, 2010 by angela in ohio

[elegantlion]

I would probably have interpreted the question in a broader sense, using "retire" as a more polite term for "closing up shop". People might do this for a variety of reasons: job-related moves, pregnancy, loss of primary income and the need to go find a full-time job, or age. You wanted to know about continuity, not age per se.

 

:iagree: I don't think of retirement as in age, but as a cessation of doing what you are currently doing.

[mcconnellboys]

No, I don't think you did anything wrong at all....