UPDATE: Arguing Over Obituary

[goldberry]

UPDATE:  After calming down and contemplating that privacy is a legitimate concern, I deleted the personal information.  Sister emailed what I was doing and I told her that I respected her wishes and was deleting the personal info.  Then she said she wanted to see it before I ran it.  I told her no.  I said that I honored her wishes not because I needed her permission to run it but because I loved her and was respecting her opinion, and that was how we should be communicating with each other rather than dictating.  I reassured her that I loved her, etc..  She did not respond to that email response, but all communications since then have been affectionate and loving with support and no drama issues for a week or so now.  So there you go!    Just to clarify, I would have had no problem her seeing it except for all that had gone before.  It had clearly become a control issue.

.................................

I am absolutely not thinking clearly here so I need perspective.  My dad passed away a week or so ago.  Dad was very low key and requested cremation with no service, which we honored but did have a small gathering at his house of friends and family.  When my mother passed we didn't publish an obituary, just saying our family is real low key about those things and not as formal as other families.  But I regreted that because I do geneology and I know obituaries are a big source of information.  For that reason I decided to publish one for my dad. 

I made a very brief one that included a statement about him taking care of my mom during dementia even though she called him an old goat.  (That was a family joke that was told to many outside the family, so not something anyone was ashamed of, it was told as a joke to people.)  Also I mentioned something about him warming up to dogs later in late which brought him much laughter.  I consider the obituary to be mostly for me and for anyone who looks up info in the future. 

My sister, who was not going to write or do anything like an obituary anyway said that it "sounded dumb about the dogs and was way too personal about mom".  I found that very hurtful and don't feel up to changing it.  I wanted to respond this: 

That was not kind to say it was dumb.  Nobody sees these anyway, it will likely only be viewed by anyone in the future looking Dad up. I will honor dad in a way that is appropriate to me as I am sure you will also. If you would prefer your names not be on there to connect you personally I understand that and you can let me know.  

Is that really rude or inappropriate? Interestingly enough before my dad died, he said several times "don't let your sister push you around when I'm gone".  I'm the peacemaker, get-along type and my sister is the runs-everything, tell-everyone-what-to-do type.  I'm tired of catering to her and not being allowed by own feelings.  But as you guys know, the peacekeeper is ALWAYS expected to just keep keeping the peace and not make waves.  Making the waves is horrible, but the other person who always demands their way, that's "just how they are".

Edited April 30 by goldberry

[goldberry]

The second option is not to respond at all and just publish it as is.  I don't think they will see that, they don't take the newspaper anyway and hardly ever go on line.

[prairiewindmomma]

First, my condolences on the passing of your father.

Second, death and grief does bring up a lot of emotions for everyone, even if a death is expected and even if the passing is a blessing (not saying either was the case for your father—just that a death, any death, is a time where emotions tend to swirl).

Third, given what you shared here, I’d publish it as is. It sounds authentic to you, obituaries are written for the living, and it sounds like you are ready to weather any blowback from your sister. Some people write formal obituaries. Some people write funny ones. For others, telling unvarnished truth about a terrible relative is cathartic. Neither anecdote you share sounds embarrassing, though it may be not what another individual would write.

[regentrude]

I am sorry for your loss.

I see no issue with the dogs; however, I would weigh whether your mother would have been comfortable with announcing her dementia publicly online. If she would not have been okay with that, I would respect her privacy and not mention it in your father's obituary. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Fwiw, as another genealogist, please share where he worked, his hobbies, any long-lived in areas, and anything that makes him sound like a real person. I agree that a well written obituary is a treasure.

[Scarlett]

12 minutes ago, goldberry said:

The second option is not to respond at all and just publish it as is.  I don't think they will see that, they don't take the newspaper anyway and hardly ever go on line.

I am so sorry about your dad. 😞 

I would say nothing and publish it as you wrote it. By the way it is not dumb, it is very sweet. 

[Katy]

I’m so sorry for your losses. 

Take his advice, don’t let her push you around. Her opinion is irrelevant. 

[Kassia]

I am also sorry for your losses and agree that you shouldn't let her push you around.  Interesting that your dad made a point of telling you that before he died.  I'm sorry about the drama during this difficult time.

[kbutton]

21 minutes ago, goldberry said:

 Interestingly enough before my dad died, he said several times "don't let your sister push you around when I'm gone".

I’m so sorry for your loss. It sounds like you had a lovely relationship with your dad. 

I think you can publish as is. I’ve seen all kinds of obituaries!

What I quoted above seems like your dad giving permission to do this your way. 

[goldberry]

It's hard I think because yes I am always the peace-keeper and my sister always has her demands.  So when I ever do make a "demand" just really expressing how I want to do something, then I'm the one viewed as making trouble. I accommodate everyone else's feelings, but when do mine get accommodated?  I confess I'm tired of it....

[goldberry]

The dog comment was relevant because it was an example of how much he changed as he got older.  He was very serious and stoic.  When I grew up dogs were NEVER allowed in the house.  As he aged, he let the dogs come in the house grudgingly at first.  Then eventually you could hear him baby-talking to the dogs in another room.  It progressed from there!  The dogs actually opened his heart in a way that was beautiful.  

[prairiewindmomma]

6 minutes ago, goldberry said:

It's hard I think because yes I am always the peace-keeper and my sister always has her demands.  So when I ever do make a "demand" just really expressing how I want to do something, then I'm the one viewed as making trouble. I accommodate everyone else's feelings, but when do mine get accommodated?  I confess I'm tired of it....

Who views you as “making trouble”? 
 

Is this someone other than your sister and her immediate family? 
 

“Shut up and get along” patterns dont tend to be healthy ones. 

[Pawz4me]

8 minutes ago, goldberry said:

The dogs actually opened his heart in a way that was beautiful.  

They have a knack for doing that.

I'm sorry for your loss, and for the disagreement.

[goldberry]

5 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Who views you as “making trouble”? 
 

Is this someone other than your sister and her immediate family? 
 

“Shut up and get along” patterns dont tend to be healthy ones. 

My sister, who I have a rather fragile relationship with.  However, I am pretty close with her 35 yo daughter (my niece) and although her my niece recognizes her mom has some issues, will still mostly take her mom's side if push comes to shove.  To her credit she normally tries to stay out of the middle of anything with me and my sister.   But that's still her mom.

[goldberry]

1 minute ago, Pawz4me said:

They have a knack for doing that.

I'm sorry for your loss, and for the disagreement.

When he started baby-talking them, we were like, wow, he never talked like that to US! 🤣

[prairiewindmomma]

What is your underlying fear that will happen if you and your sister don’t agree on a given subject? It sounds like you are willing to entertain the idea that it’s ok if you and your sister dont agree, but you are more concerned about how your niece perceives you. How strong and healthy is that relationship if she cant accept that sometimes adults disagree with each other and yet can still have healthy and loving relationships? 
 

Like, what pattern is there in your family history that “shut up and get along” is your normal? Did you have an overbearing parent and another who just shut up and got along?

[prairiewindmomma]

No need to answer, btw, but I dont think this pattern popped up overnight, and I would learn to tolerate the uncomfortableness of disagreeing. You have the right to your own opinions. 😃

[Murphy101]

I don’t think you should respond if you don’t want to change anything and her opinion doesn’t matter to you. 

Setting aside sibling baggage. You wrote this knowing the rest of the family probably wouldn’t appreciate it to various degrees based on past experience at the death of other family members being kept “low key” on this kind of thing - so it isn’t surprising that this is just the way you deciding to write any obit was going to go.  That the sister who you think tends to be more out spoken generally is also the one who spoke up about it also shouldn’t be a surprise either.

But I think it says a lot that your dad didn’t want it for his wife.  It seems unlikely that he wanted it for himself  and for ME, that would be the end of it no matter whether I agreed or not with him. 

[Faith-manor]

2 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I don’t think you should respond if you don’t want to change anything and her opinion doesn’t matter to you. 

Setting aside sibling baggage. You wrote this knowing the rest of the family probably wouldn’t appreciate it to various degrees based on past experience at the death of other family members being kept “low key” on this kind of thing - so it isn’t surprising that this is just the way you deciding to write any obit was going to go.  That the sister who you think tends to be more out spoken generally is also the one who spoke up about it also shouldn’t be a surprise either.

But I think it says a lot that your dad didn’t want it for his wife.  It seems unlikely that he wanted it for himself  and for ME, that would be the end of it no matter whether I agreed or not with him. 

I agree with this. I don't think future genealogy trumps present, living descendents wishes. 

[goldberry]

4 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I don’t think you should respond if you don’t want to change anything and her opinion doesn’t matter to you. 

Setting aside sibling baggage. You wrote this knowing the rest of the family probably wouldn’t appreciate it to various degrees based on past experience at the death of other family members being kept “low key” on this kind of thing - so it isn’t surprising that this is just the way you deciding to write any obit was going to go.  That the sister who you think tends to be more out spoken generally is also the one who spoke up about it also shouldn’t be a surprise either.

But I think it says a lot that your dad didn’t want it for his wife.  It seems unlikely that he wanted it for himself  and for ME, that would be the end of it no matter whether I agreed or not with him. 

We never talked about an obit for mom at the time. Like I said it just hasn't been something we've done in our family. I did mention later about the genealogy thing and he said yeah we probably should have done that. He didn't have a strong opinion on the subject.

[amyx4]

I'm sorry for your loss. I'm sorry that family can be difficult.

IMHO I preferred it when obituaries where just the facts.

When my name is listed in an obituary as a family member it seems so strange to me that some of the paragraphs written don't reflect my relationship or life experinces with the deceased. However, I have never asked anyone to change anything in a more flowery obituary. I definitely do not want a flowery obituary for myself.

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

however, I would weigh whether your mother would have been comfortable with announcing her dementia publicly online

I would not be comfortable with listing medical issues in an obituary. Even for relatives (my husband and mine) we leave out cause of death or any health issues in obituaries. 

[goldberry]

Just to clarify, the issue was publishing the obituary in general, or my mom's medical condition.  It was the part about her calling him an old goat (which was a long-standing family and friend joke) and about the dogs.

[freesia]

I wouldn’t want my sibling including that my mom called my dad an old goat bc that is also a reflection on her that is only representative of the end of her life. It seems a bit disrespectful of her memory—to me. The dog part is lovely and wonderful though. 

[Carol in Cal.]

Personally, I don’t think that an obit is where to be very creative.

If you were writing a personal essay about your dad for a holiday letter, that would be the place for stories like that.

But an obit is for the world, strangers mostly, a permanent, semi-formal record.  That being so, it’s not the place for insider jokes or bad news or anything that could be interpreted as critical, even if overcome.  I think that it would be better to craft a more formal obituary if you are going to publish anything at all, and possible one that remembers both of your parents now that they are both deceased.  

Your sister sounds annoying but at the same time I would leave out the dog story and the mention of dementia and especially the mention of ‘old goat’.  Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Rosie_0801]

Your sister can publish a piece that suits her sentiments if she wants to.

[Katy]

2 hours ago, Arcadia said:

I would not be comfortable with listing medical issues in an obituary. Even for relatives (my husband and mine) we leave out cause of death or any health issues in obituaries. 

I could not disagree more. I want to include cause of death so no one is left whisper-asking what happened or worse, trying to google it. 

[MercyA]

Sympathy and hugs to you, @goldberry.

[DawnM]

Hugs to you.  I know what losing your dad is like.   I probably would change it, only because I hate conflict like that.   But I wouldn't want to.   

Thankfully I was an only child.

[klmama]

Out of respect for your mom's privacy, I would leave out her goat comment and the mention of her dementia, while still including that he lovingly cared for her in her later years.  I have no real opinion about the dog comment.

[goldberry]

Well, this thread confirms what I already knew and what prairiewindmomma said, that people write obituaries differently and for all different reasons.  I really don't know who even sees an obituary as far as the "public" goes unless it is a famous or well-connected person.  No one even gets newspapers any more, and it doesn't show up online unless you go searching.  So, it was for me and my dad, not for any "public" unlikely to ever see it, that was not part of my concern.  Thanks for your input folks...

[Arcadia]

36 minutes ago, Katy said:

I could not disagree more. I want to include cause of death so no one is left whisper-asking what happened or worse, trying to google it. 

Our relatives are very private and they already know cause of death. There is no need for the general public to know. 
My relatives have made their wishes clear to the executors of their will so there won’t be an issue for my side of the family. 

[bolt.]

1) I'm sorry for your loss.

2) Your obituary idea is lovely.

3) Your intended reply to your sister, is raw, harsh, combative, inappropriate, and unnecessary. I know that you are hurting and that's why you had those feelings and wanted to write it like that. But I think you will regret it. It's likely to cause a family rift that will last for years. Please don't send it.

4) Send something like, "I'm sorry you feel that way."

5) Carry on honoring your dad in your way -- you don't need her permission, and it doesn't need to be talked out.

[bibiche]

Listen to your dad. He told you what to do. 
I am terribly sorry for your loss. Sending big hugs. 

[J-rap]

I'm so sorry...  I went through a similar loss just recently and it's hard.  Personally, I would enjoy reading your dad's obituary as written!  I like the humor, especially if you think it reflects your dad.

We did write something about my mother...  "XXX continued to be devoted to his wife XXX after a decline in health required her to move into a long-term care center. He spent most every afternoon by her side..."   We didn't list dementia specifically because we didn't think our mother would have wanted that, but if you think your mom wouldn't mind, I don't have a problem with that. 

I think your sister was rude, but for family peace, I'd probably try and find a version that everyone is okay with.  My siblings and I passed our dad's obituary back and forth between us and tweaked it several times and made compromises and eventually found a version that we all agreed on, even if not perfectly.

Edited April 11 by J-rap

[fraidycat]

I'm sorry for your loss.

Reading this on the 4th anniversary of my own dad's passing, and having a difficult, demanding sibling myself, I say do whatever works for you.

This is your grief journey - everybody else can go kick rocks.

[TechWife]

I don’t have an opinion on the obituary. However, I can empathize with your sibling situation. For me it was a misogynistic brother who was in for a real shock when none of his sisters would defer to him. It wasn’t pretty. Be yourself. Mourn your way. Your family has changed forever and you and your siblings have a lot to adjust to. Being yourself is really, really important as y’all move forward with the new shape of your family. You will get to know each other in new ways.

FWIW, it’s not too late to publish an obituary for your mother. It might be harder to find, but it would be there. You could even do a joint obituary, which might make it easier to find as it would be connected to her husband. 

I am so very sorry about the loss of both of your parents. 

[KungFuPanda]

If you lost your sister tomorrow would you regret publishing the obituary as is? If not, go ahead and publish it. If you would have regrets, edit it to something that she wouldn’t find offensive. You can always publish a more personal tribute elsewhere. The actual formal obituary can be more emotionally loaded than any other publication.

I wrote my son’s obituary. I was sparse on details because I knew it would be more searchable and widely read. DH edited to make it much more beautiful and personal. Eventually the more formal version was made public and the objectively better version was used in the eulogy where it could be heard by people who had a personal relationship with my son.  There was a comment page on the funeral home’s website.  Those personal stories are still there and searchable.  People can add whatever they want to the conversation, it’s just not part of the obituary. 

[Scarlett]

Obituaries are funny things……People can put any thing in there true or not. And there is always going to be someone to complain. 
 

I wrote my former MIL’s obituary. Per my xh’s request I included the siblings that had been found late in her life. MIL had never accepted the science and I think one of her sons  did not want it mentioned but it was included. 

Something  like ‘late in life MIL discovered her birth family. She is survived by sisters Martha and Mary and brother James all of TX. 

No last names no city. Mary’s son Tom, up on hearing this plan, called me up to tell me I needed to get permission to include the birth siblings in the obit. Um, actually I do not. 
 

The siblings were thrilled to be included. They sent flowers to the funeral home too. 

Edited April 11 by Scarlett

[goldberry]

I decided to just wait a bit. It's causing stress right now that I'm not in a place to deal with. My dad was a good man who I got very close to in the last  years. He was a distant, serious father as we were growing up (never abusive just not emotionally engaged) but in his older years he regretted that so much and made efforts to change and to have a relationship with us. He laughed more, called more, engaged more. He was 92 and he was ready to go... but he has left a huge hole in my heart. 🖤

[Kassia]

Sending hugs @goldberry  How wonderful that your dad worked to make things right.  ❤️  

[Chris in VA]

Mine passed on March 6, and I did not really like the obit my sister-in-law published, but I let it go. I spoke at his funeral, as did my 2 sisters-in-law (my brothers are both gone); I had my say tbere. 

I'm sorry for your loss and glad you had a good relationship w your dad. I'm not sure what I would do w the obit. I have read really hilarious jokey ones, and just the facts ones. Both have their place. I don't think you can really make a poor decision in your case. 

[goldberry]

UPDATE ALSO ADDED TO FIRST POST  After calming down and contemplating that privacy is a legitimate concern, I deleted the personal information.  Sister emailed what I was doing and I told her that I respected her wishes and was deleting the personal info.  Then she said she wanted to see it before I ran it.  I told her no.  I said that I honored her wishes not because I needed her permission to run it but because I loved her and was respecting her opinion, and that was how we should be communicating with each other rather than dictating.  I reassured her that I loved her, etc..  She did not respond to that email response, but all communications since then have been affectionate and loving with support and no drama issues for a week or so now.  So there you go!   Just to clarify, I would have had no problem her seeing it except for all that had gone before.  It had clearly become a control issue.

Edited April 30 by goldberry