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It just never snows anymore.


Indigo Blue
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In the Deep South. I want snow, then when I’m tired of it, I want spring weather for weeks and weeks. 
 

It used to snow. Now it never does. 
 

Why can’t the weather just do exactly what I want it to do? 😬🙃

People in the North, please don’t come smack me. 

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Well….I live in upstate New York and have been lamenting for the last few years how it just doesn’t seem to snow or last anymore. It’s scientifically verified that we aren’t getting snow like we did when I was growing up, so it’s not all in my head.

https://dec.ny.gov/environmental-protection/climate-change/effects-impacts#:~:text=In New York%2C winters have,cover%2C and earlier spring snowmelt.
 

I don’t even like snow, but I like it more than endless winter rainstorms that just create mud.

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49 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

In the Deep South. I want snow, then when I’m tired of it, I want spring weather for weeks and weeks. 
 

It used to snow. Now it never does. 
 

Why can’t the weather just do exactly what I want it to do? 😬🙃

People in the North, please don’t come smack me. 

It tends to snow in GA when I visit. I’m flying down on the 18th. Keep an eye out! 🤣☹️

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I know exactly how it feels to wish for snow and then get tired of it pretty fast! 😉  Personally, I'd love to have all the snow on grass and dirt and forests, but not on roads, sidewalks or driveways. I'd really love winters like this. The shovelling and driving on snowy/icy roads is the part that really annoys me. I just want to play in the snow with skis. Also, I wish winters weren't very cold.

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I do remember what it’s like to get 12 inches of snow and lose power and all that. I mean, I know, global warming and all…but it is strange that I remember so much snow and now there is just none. Every year I think this will be the year. But no. It never happens. 
 

@Carrie12345I need to put on my calendar on that day, “Carrie is going to GA and it’s supposed to snow today.”

It would be funny if it actually happened. I’m keeping an eye on it. 

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1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

I get paid snow days at this new job so I fully expect it to never snow again. We get enough precipitation and we get enough cold, but we don’t seem to get them at the same time. Today is a sleety gross mess. 

Right?? I want the deep, fluffy snow of my childhood. I don’t like the dangerous stuff out there today. 

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The last big snow I remember was in early December 2018. That's very early for us to get snow, and we got close to a foot, which is a LOT for us. The drifts at our garage doors were 17" deep. I don't think we've had more than a dusting since then. 

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5 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

Right?? I want the deep, fluffy snow of my childhood. I don’t like the dangerous stuff out there today. 

My childhood was 2000 feet higher than where I live now. My mom gets all sorts of snow, from the same storms, and it’s just rain for us. 

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Even when my kids were little, we got snow.  We would have multiple small snow storms in a year, and we had multiple foot plus storms, including one more than three feet snow.  It wasn't that long ago....less than ten years.  So like 8-15 years ago, we got real snow.  But hardly anything in the last eight years.  A couple inches every few years, maybe.  

I was hopeful for this weekend's event, and there were some flurries for a couple of hours but nothing stuck and then it just rained.

 

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34 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

I do remember what it’s like to get 12 inches of snow and lose power and all that. I mean, I know, global warming and all…but it is strange that I remember so much snow and now there is just none. Every year I think this will be the year. But no. It never happens. 
 

@Carrie12345I need to put on my calendar on that day, “Carrie is going to GA and it’s supposed to snow today.”

It would be funny if it actually happened. I’m keeping an eye on it. 

Funny and not funny!

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2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

Well….I live in upstate New York and have been lamenting for the last few years how it just doesn’t seem to snow or last anymore. It’s scientifically verified that we aren’t getting snow like we did when I was growing up, so it’s not all in my head.

https://dec.ny.gov/environmental-protection/climate-change/effects-impacts#:~:text=In New York%2C winters have,cover%2C and earlier spring snowmelt.
 

I don’t even like snow, but I like it more than endless winter rainstorms that just create mud.

Climate change is kicking us too. Sigh. No ice on the bay. None. I honestly think ice fishing is going to be a thing of the past. When I was a kid, my dad could drive our Beauville van onto the ice by Feb. 1 because the ice was so thick, the Bay often icing to 24-26" deep sometimes even thicker.

My nephew, who doesn't believe science, was running off at the mouth about, "So what if the planet is 2° hotter than it used to be?" I asked him if anyone in school had taught him the difference between 32°F and 33°. He just stared. Stared for quite a while. I finally told him, freezing vs. not freezing. Then asked him what that might mean for an environment, and ecosystem. He was still staring at me so I mentioned his beloved honey crisp apple trees and reminded him that they require 800 chill hours (above 32° but below 45°) during the dormancy period of late autumn (for us most are going dormant some time in mid-October) and before the spring equinox when the day time temps get so much warmer, and increased light intensity wakes them up. And during that period, the trees should not experience a significant warming. Nov. 1-Mar. 22 is 142 days, give or take a leap year, x 24, is 3408. Doesn't seem like a problem. Every single day above 60° or below 32° subtracts a half hour from the total. More than half of our days in November did not produce any chill hours and contributed to 8+ hours removed from the total once we did get a few. We had several days in December that produced only small amounts. Two months of potential chill hours, and we haven't reached 100 yet. Some varieties of peaches require 1300 hours in this state.

His response was that he didn't realize that climate was that big of a deal. (I refrained from banging my head against the wall right there on the spot.)

Sigh.

I am trying to figure out how to chill my apple trees. Can I cover them with black tarps to block heat, and place ice under there with fans? Wracking my brains. We still have 82 days left before they really start waking up. Several of the next ten days are going to have daily highs that will be above 32, but the nights are now dropping below and won't count. We normally accumulate a lot of these chill hours in late October - mid December. So I am nervous. We will get some in March, but this is not good. I may regret not planting some 4 year old stock of varieties of fruit that need far fewer chill hours. Chill hour maps at the extension office show us historically, prior to 2010, averaging 300-400 chill hours from Nov. 1-Jan1. We are currently standing at about 100 for our local area, and there are spots around Traverse Bay (cherry capital) at less than 100.

So ya, I am worried. This isn't a one off, a "weird" year. We have been consistently having fewer chill hours per year since the 2010 with the warming trend beginning too be noticeable prior to that. In 2015 we still experienced 1400 ish chill hours. Every one of the last 8 years have been last. The prediction for this year, and definitely El Nino seems to be contributing, is 800-1000. Our variety of apples need 850 hours, and the blueberries need nearly 1000. We might eek it out, but it is going to be way too close for comfort. 😥

Edited by Faith-manor
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I'm mourning our lack of snow, and also can see a time when there will be no more maple syrup.  The trees need very specific conditions to run well, and it's rarely been that cold at night this year.

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9 minutes ago, Eos said:

I'm mourning our lack of snow, and also can see a time when there will be no more maple syrup.  The trees need very specific conditions to run well, and it's rarely been that cold at night this year.

This makes me feel like I need a keg of the stuff. I wonder how long it would last.

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El Nino years are always weird, with warm temps followed by a polar vortex or three. But this one is particularly weird. For the last few weeks my hometown in Florida has been the same temperature or slightly cooler than my home in the Midwest. 

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I just read an article about 9 foods that will be rapidly disappearing in this next 10-20 years due to climate change, and rainforest decimation. Coffee. Chocolate. The other 7 do not mean so much to me but would be rather bad if they were gone.

Beam me up Scottie. I need a replicator!

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We'd get snow maybe once every 10 years or so in the Deep South, so that's pretty normal as I remember it.  What always puzzled me was the attitude about the snow that I ran into up North when we lived there for 10 years.  Especially since a big part of their economy depended on it - skiing, etc. 

I was SOOO excited every single time it snowed, but the weather people on the news were constantly referring to it as "getting dumped on" when it snowed.  Same with a lot of the locals.  I just ignored them and happily went about shoveling my precious fluffy snow.  😄

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1 hour ago, Eos said:

I'm mourning our lack of snow, and also can see a time when there will be no more maple syrup.  The trees need very specific conditions to run well, and it's rarely been that cold at night this year.

We tap maples here every year, and the season fluctuates forward or backward on the calendar, but the spring temps are the ones that matter - best conditions are 20 at night and 40 during the day. Some years are good, and some are bad. 

(ETA: If it's at all reassuring, it's definitely been cold enough at night this year, and the outlook for maple syrup is strong. New technology both at the tree level and also at the production level is quite promising, and the temps are fine even in El Nino years. We harvest in late Feb / early March / sometimes late March.)

It lasts forever on your shelf, if properly bottled; it's been boiled for hours and hours, so any living impurities are well and truly gone. 😉 It's our first "garden crop" every spring.

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We've had years with actual BLIZZARDS where we live and years that are so brown we have barely two weeks of white. Dh is so bummed he's actually going on a little trip with ds to find some snow. 🤣 

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8 hours ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

We tap maples here every year, and the season fluctuates forward or backward on the calendar, but the spring temps are the ones that matter - best conditions are 20 at night and 40 during the day. Some years are good, and some are bad. 

(ETA: If it's at all reassuring, it's definitely been cold enough at night this year, and the outlook for maple syrup is strong. New technology both at the tree level and also at the production level is quite promising, and the temps are fine even in El Nino years. We harvest in late Feb / early March / sometimes late March.)

It lasts forever on your shelf, if properly bottled; it's been boiled for hours and hours, so any living impurities are well and truly gone. 😉 It's our first "garden crop" every spring.

It's been sugar weather here for weeks, not a true January thaw.  We had a great maple year last year.  But winter is taking longer to arrive, it still feels like late October or mid-March here. We heard geese heading south in the night last night - on January 6th! We're near the coast which is warming faster.

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13 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

It tends to snow in GA when I visit. I’m flying down on the 18th. Keep an eye out! 🤣☹️

We used to live south of Atlanta and moved to northwest GA 2.5 years ago. I was looking forward to snow, but we've only had a couple of dustings. It's been very disappointing!

I used to live here and just north of here growing up. There were always 1-2 good snows and maybe more. Last winter we had so much rain that part of our backyard seemed like a swamp. I hope we at least won't have that again. 

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10 hours ago, PeterPan said:

We've had years with actual BLIZZARDS where we live and years that are so brown we have barely two weeks of white. Dh is so bummed he's actually going on a little trip with ds to find some snow. 🤣 

One year when we lived in China, we set off from the city where we lived (Kunming - 'spring city', usually no snow) up into the mountains to see snow with the kids.  We saw snow on the ground there but the kids weren't that impressed.  On the day after we returned to Kunming it snowed, and actually seeing the stuff coming out of the sky was much more of an experience for them.

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10 hours ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

We tap maples here every year, and the season fluctuates forward or backward on the calendar, but the spring temps are the ones that matter - best conditions are 20 at night and 40 during the day. Some years are good, and some are bad. 

(ETA: If it's at all reassuring, it's definitely been cold enough at night this year, and the outlook for maple syrup is strong. New technology both at the tree level and also at the production level is quite promising, and the temps are fine even in El Nino years. We harvest in late Feb / early March / sometimes late March.)

It lasts forever on your shelf, if properly bottled; it's been boiled for hours and hours, so any living impurities are well and truly gone. 😉 It's our first "garden crop" every spring.

I measured every one of our many maples and it’s going to be a few years before they’re tap-able. I’m worried about how it will go by then.

A local nature center produces syrup, but they’re not certified to sell, so you have to sponsor a tree in advance to get some or win as a prize at some point. They’ve had some hard times these past few years. 

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4 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Well the forecast changed for the storm coming Tuesday.  Yesterday they said an inch today they are saying 5-8.

I think you're getting the same system as us in N IL - 5-8 inches expected on Tuesday. We've had dustings, maybe a half inch here or there, but this (if it shows) will be the first big snow. 

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On 1/6/2024 at 9:35 PM, Lucy the Valiant said:

 

It lasts forever on your shelf, if properly bottled; it's been boiled for hours and hours, so any living impurities are well and truly gone. 😉 It's our first "garden crop" every spring.

Yep, and you can reboil it if it gets crystallized at all.

My family knows a lot of former or trying to retire farmers who do maple syrup, and it’s a killer when the days are too warm—they really struggle to get the sap processed before it goes bad, and processing sap is already a 24/7 job for many people while it runs.

@Faith-manor, I think you are hitting the key points; it’s not just snow, it’s the number of days below freezing. Snow has always varied in my lifetime; there was less snow in my hometown growing up than there is now, but now it can start later and often ends abruptly. When I was little, we always had cold and we had some snow, but I remember only one or two times that we got more than six inches. When I was in high school we suddenly had several years where we’d have at least one blizzard, had more snow overall, and had numerous school cancellations to save stress on the power grid because it was -20 for days at a time. My senior year of high school, we started with a dusting on Halloween and barely saw the ground again until April (and then it didn’t get below 85 for months—freakishly weird year!). Now it’s warmer and shorter winters with more evenly distributed amounts of snow. Where I live now, it varies even more, but the trend is toward fewer days below freezing.

Neither place I’ve lived typically had a lot of snow before January, but there were/are always outlying storms. 

Snow past March or mid-April used to be rare even if temps stayed low, but now it seems like we can expect snow flurries in April or May almost every year even after spring is well established and everything has warmed up! It’s very weird.

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On 1/7/2024 at 11:37 AM, Faith-manor said:

So ya, I am worried. This isn't a one off, a "weird" year. We have been consistently having fewer chill hours per year since the 2010 with the warming trend beginning to be noticeable prior to that.

Yep. 

We get about 1 snow day a year where we live, as in one day where it is actually cold enough to settle on the ground. This year (2023), nope. Not a single day of snow. I wonder if it will ever really snow up here again. 

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Anyone else read that article in the NYT about the end of the Dutch ice skating race? It used to be held most years. It was a big cultural thing. It hasn't been held in 26 years because the ice hasn't been thick enough. Young people have no cultural connection with it. Even if there's a freak year where it's cold enough for it, the idea was that it's essentially dead - this big cultural event. I found it to be a really interesting perspective about the cultural shifts that climate change is bringing. 

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I'm in Memphis. We get ice. We get sleet. And we finally, in 2020,got enough snow, once, that building a snowman that was bigger than about 6 inches tall was possible.
 

Right now, we're getting cold, wet, icky rain. 
 

One of the talks that we attended a few years back was a researcher who was looking at wood frogs in Canada, and what he found was that these frogs, which literally can freeze solid and revive without harm to the frog, were struggling because it got warm too soon. So they were reviving earlier, breeding earlier, and the tadpoles would morph at smaller sizes because the water temperature was telling them it was time to do it. If there was a  cold snap (and it was well within the season for it) these small frogs were unable to survive freezing. And ALL the frogs ended up with a longer active season and less brumation period, which led to smaller clutch sizes and fewer offspring. 

 

It was pretty grim, and it's been shown to occur in other frogs as well-it's particularly noticible for wood frogs because they have such a short historical active phase and are the ONLY native Herp at the extremes of their range. 

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35 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I'm in Memphis. We get ice. We get sleet. And we finally, in 2020,got enough snow, once, that building a snowman that was bigger than about 6 inches tall was possible.
 

Right now, we're getting cold, wet, icky rain. 
 

One of the talks that we attended a few years back was a researcher who was looking at wood frogs in Canada, and what he found was that these frogs, which literally can freeze solid and revive without harm to the frog, were struggling because it got warm too soon. So they were reviving earlier, breeding earlier, and the tadpoles would morph at smaller sizes because the water temperature was telling them it was time to do it. If there was a  cold snap (and it was well within the season for it) these small frogs were unable to survive freezing. And ALL the frogs ended up with a longer active season and less brumation period, which led to smaller clutch sizes and fewer offspring. 

 

It was pretty grim, and it's been shown to occur in other frogs as well-it's particularly noticible for wood frogs because they have such a short historical active phase and are the ONLY native Herp at the extremes of their range. 

It is so scary what is happening, and even more terrifying how few people give a damn!

It is FINALLY snowing. Large, fluffy, beautiful flakes, and it might actually accumulate and not immediately melt.

Yesterday and today, we will get 16 chill hours during the day time temps. The night time temps will be too low. The temp during the daytime from Wed-Sun will also fall too low. That is it. We will still be below 200 hours. I am actively tracking now. We barely had enough last year. If we do not get enough this year, it will inform my decision about what varieties of apples, peaches, and cherries to plant on our 10 acreas of land up north. The apple, peach, and cherry orchardists in Traverse City/Antrim county are pretty nervous or at least that is what was discussed among 4H master gardeners recently. The varieties I have here, three hours further south, are easily apples that should be fine in zone 5b which is what we are currently zoned. (Be afraid because 50 years ago where I am right now was zone 4b.) But, I think despite the Department of Ag optimism that we won't change zone again for a while, we may need to look at 6b varieties in order to have apples on trees 10 years from now. The high chill hour need trees just aren't going to be able to produce.

If we get close to the required numbers, within say 50 hours, then on the first days of march when temps want to get to 45+ and stay during the day, I could put sprinklers on the tree spraying cold well water on them which will prevent the internal temp of the tree from rising, artificially adding chill hours. But given we might see a drought this summer due to lack of snow pack and ice melt this winter, I am also concerned about that water usage for just one food source.

At any rate, I am trying to at least enjoy the fluffy white today. It is very pretty.

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Snow is becoming that rare that if it snowed in the late evening our child and I made a midnight walk in the snow (and the dark) just case it would melt away before we woke up.

Of course we skipped homeschool when it snowed to make a snowlady how small it became. We knew our priotities in live.

And if ever somebody complains about snow in my area I always say they should be generous and allow the next generation their fun of a few days of snow..

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4 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

I'm in Memphis. We get ice. We get sleet. And we finally, in 2020,got enough snow, once, that building a snowman that was bigger than about 6 inches tall was possible.
 

Right now, we're getting cold, wet, icky rain. 
 

One of the talks that we attended a few years back was a researcher who was looking at wood frogs in Canada, and what he found was that these frogs, which literally can freeze solid and revive without harm to the frog, were struggling because it got warm too soon. So they were reviving earlier, breeding earlier, and the tadpoles would morph at smaller sizes because the water temperature was telling them it was time to do it. If there was a  cold snap (and it was well within the season for it) these small frogs were unable to survive freezing. And ALL the frogs ended up with a longer active season and less brumation period, which led to smaller clutch sizes and fewer offspring. 

 

It was pretty grim, and it's been shown to occur in other frogs as well-it's particularly noticible for wood frogs because they have such a short historical active phase and are the ONLY native Herp at the extremes of their range. 

Does this kind of stuff affect tarantulas, too?  We go looking for them here during the summer when they're supposedly migrating, but they're pretty hard to find.  And some of the rangers say there used to be tons of them on the roads in past years.  Not nearly so much anymore.

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28 minutes ago, kathyl said:

Does this kind of stuff affect tarantulas, too?  We go looking for them here during the summer when they're supposedly migrating, but they're pretty hard to find.  And some of the rangers say there used to be tons of them on the roads in past years.  Not nearly so much anymore.

It does. Many species of animals are migrating north at a significant rate and have been for a while.

https://viterbischool.usc.edu/news/2022/09/in-a-warmer-world-half-of-all-species-are-on-the-move-where-are-they-going/

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We have a couple bluebirds that are still hanging out in our backyard which is very unusual.  They should be long gone by this point.   They are acting like its Spring and checking out the bird houses where we've had nests the past few years.   It's really strange. 

And I just read an article about a particular species of very large spider that is moving North and will be here soon, plus mosquito-borne diseases are expected to become more widespread as they are able to survive farther North for longer seasons. 

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1 hour ago, Wheres Toto said:

We have a couple bluebirds that are still hanging out in our backyard which is very unusual.  They should be long gone by this point.   They are acting like its Spring and checking out the bird houses where we've had nests the past few years.   It's really strange. 

And I just read an article about a particular species of very large spider that is moving North and will be here soon, plus mosquito-borne diseases are expected to become more widespread as they are able to survive farther North for longer seasons. 

Where do they go, do you know? I ask because we have bluebirds all year and they are extra prolific at my feeders in winter, and I live much farther north of you. Maybe they migrate north, usually? I truly have no idea. But they are so beautiful in the winter landscape!

Our loons are still on the open lakes, instead of having moved onto the coastal waters. It's not often that lakes aren't frozen by now.

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1 hour ago, MEmama said:

Where do they go, do you know? I ask because we have bluebirds all year and they are extra prolific at my feeders in winter, and I live much farther north of you. Maybe they migrate north, usually? I truly have no idea. But they are so beautiful in the winter landscape!

Our loons are still on the open lakes, instead of having moved onto the coastal waters. It's not often that lakes aren't frozen by now.

I'm not sure, I always assumed they went south but don't know.  We just never had them here past mid-October.  We have had at least two mating pairs in our birdhouses for the last 4 or 5 years.  They are usually gone before it's getting cold.  

ETA:  We do have some birds that stay all year round.  Blue Jays and Cardinals are always here, lots of sparrows and grackles are still here. 

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1 hour ago, Wheres Toto said:

I'm not sure, I always assumed they went south but don't know.  We just never had them here past mid-October.  We have had at least two mating pairs in our birdhouses for the last 4 or 5 years.  They are usually gone before it's getting cold.  

ETA:  We do have some birds that stay all year round.  Blue Jays and Cardinals are always here, lots of sparrows and grackles are still here. 

We have had more cardinals the past couple years than we used to. I love them so much! And actually, we didn’t have bluebirds at our feeder (though they lived in the fields) until maybe 3-4 winters ago and now we have them year round. 
 

We used to have nesting woodpeckers but I haven’t seen many the last couple years. We used to get lots (several varieties). I miss them and hope it’s just a fluke they’ve not been in our yard as frequently. 

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4 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

It does. Many species of animals are migrating north at a significant rate and have been for a while.

https://viterbischool.usc.edu/news/2022/09/in-a-warmer-world-half-of-all-species-are-on-the-move-where-are-they-going/

Oh, that would explain seeing armadillos way above the Deep South now.  When I was growing up, the only time we saw armadillos was when we got down around south Miss and south Louisiana.  Now I think they're all the way up in TN or somewhere like that..

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