Where Do You Store Dirty Dishes?

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t like dirty dishes on the counter either. Dh will rinse them and set them on the counter. Ugh!

I prefer them neatly on the counter because I need to use the sink a million times a day, and when they get put in the sink, they end up dirtier from the other dishes, and they end up blocking the drain, which means more gross stuff floating in the blocked drain. 🤮 

If it bothered me to have to wipe the counter, I would get a basin for dirty dishes to sit in on the counter.

I like a very clean sink when I hand wash though, and I have to pay attention to the order in which I was dishes to not get gluten on my GF dishes. That doesn’t work with dumping it all in the sink unless everything fits in the dishwasher (and then they should be in there). 

 

[KungFuPanda]

Ok, as a person who hates hand washing dishes I get the impulse to put it off, but 5 days is way too much. You’ll run out of space and pots and it’s not sanitary. Can you tackle this another way?  
 

I’ve transitioned a LOT of my cookware to dishwasher safe stuff. I try not to buy things that can’t go in the dishwasher. I’m shameless about running another load later or in the morning if I can avoid hand washing. Dh is a little less resistant to washing pots than I am. 
 

Dd swears by that Dawn heavy duty spray stuff. That might be a better solution than a pot of gross soaking water. You may want to try a scrape in the trash, wash, then soak if necessary so nobody is just adding water to a gross pot. 
 

Most of my non dishwasher safe stuff is cast iron and you have to deal with it the same night or it rusts. A friends kids were in charge of pots and ruined her Le Cruset dutch oven by letting an acidic sauce sit in there for days. They just got busy and didn’t deal with it. She thought it was sitting with water because the lid was on but it actually had a sauce with vinegar in it eating away at the lining. 

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, kbutton said:

I prefer them neatly on the counter because I need to use the sink a million times a day, and when they get put in the sink, they end up dirtier from the other dishes, and they end up blocking the drain, which means more gross stuff floating in the blocked drain. 🤮 

If it bothered me to have to wipe the counter, I would get a basin for dirty dishes to sit in on the counter.

I like a very clean sink when I hand wash though, and I have to pay attention to the order in which I was dishes to not get gluten on my GF dishes. That doesn’t work with dumping it all in the sink unless everything fits in the dishwasher (and then they should be in there). 

 

I don’t want them in the sink either. But I sure don’t want them rinsed off and then set back on the counter. 

[Clarita]

Does anyone know why people are just rinsing off dishes but not actually cleaning them and/or putting all the dirty dishes in the sink and putting water all over it as a matter of course? What do they think they are accomplishing? 

I thought I was weird in not wanting dirty dishes in the sink. I have a sign for my big parties for guests not to put dirty dishes in the sink. Please just leave the dirty dishes where you are or I have a landing spot for them. Putting dirty dishes in the sink is going to get you uninvited to my parties (also rinsing them and putting them on my counter, too). 

 

[JennyD]

How is your house not overtaken by ants?  We never leave anything out here, especially overnight.  If we did it would be an ant plague of biblical proportions.

OP, I have no helpful advice but I am so sorry that you are struggling.  As others have said, you are so generous and empathetic with other people's problems and invariably give such thoughtful advice.  I hope you can find your way to a better place soon.

 

 

 

[KungFuPanda]

Have you considered trading responsibilities? Can he cook for a while while you do clean-up? He already has the easier job but might be more motivated to cook since he has an immediate need to eat. 

[Carrie12345]

Depressive episodes do run throughout my household and there absolutely was a time when, without a working dishwasher, with many small children, and with a traveling spouse whose local commute could be 2 hours, dishes sat. It is NOT unusual for depression to cause dysfunction in household maintenance. In fact, it’s probably more common than not. Which ISN’T to say that makes it okay.

Things that helped me:   
Working dishwasher.  
Someone (for a few year me) unloading dishwasher first thing in the AM so dirty dishes could go straight in.  
Meds, therapy, working hard on myself.  
Trading soaking for washing immediately so things can’t harden and need soaking.  
Using disposable items as needed. (Foil comes in all sorts of cooking shapes these days for the items that traditionally are hardest to wash.)

These days, dishes are not supposed to be my responsibility. My sons each have three nights and Dh has one. Dishwasher runs every night and empties every morning. That said, they do not work to my (nondepressed) standard. So I often have a random item of some sort to wash when I wake up, and I just do it because I can’t spend my life nagging, it isn’t that hard, and it makes my day go better. Plus I have an intimate understanding of being the one who is crappy at a job.

 

[marbel]

I prefer dishes go in the sink rather than sit on the counter, because I have very little counter space. But it is rare that things sit in the sink very long because, yes, I need the sink often, but also, things generally go right in the dishwasher. If the dishwasher is full, it's running, and so a few things might sit in the sink till that's done and emptied. Things that don't go in the dishwasher are just washed. Occasionally there are exceptions, but I don't have small kids so cleanup is quicker and not hindered by evening activities. 

When we have guests, I put a dishpan on the counter for dishes, but I generally ask people not to help beyond taking their plates to it, because they don't know what to do and mess me up. I actually prefer they just leave their plates and such anyway and let my people and me do the cleaning. They are guests, not staff. But that's a losing battle because people are conditioned to listen to their mother's voice telling them how to be a good guest, and not the actual host's voice asking them to enjoy themselves and leave the kitchen to me.  But this is off the OP.

I have no clue why anyone would think it's helpful to rinse a dirty item and put it on the counter. 

I hope the OP is getting some help from this thread. Cooking, eating, and the cleanup that results are such fundamental parts of living, it's terrible when it's fraught. 

[HomeAgain]

I like to have the dishes in the sink.  I am lucky to have a sink that is made for this and not so lucky to have large enough countertops in that area of the kitchen.  However, MIL had a single kitchen sink and it was more cumbersome.  Their solution was to use a separate dishpan that could be lifted out of the sink as necessary for other tasks, so during meal prep items could still be placed in the dishpan, but the sink was still usable as needed.

[Janeway]

I am a b!tch. This stuff might have been stored in some place my husband needs/wants to go regularly. Like the bathroom sink he uses. I would also not cook another thing. I would say no more cooked meals, not even eating out, until the dishes are done. Ok, I do not think I am a b!tch. Because it is being a way bigger b!tch to refuse to get it clean...yes, b!tch can refer to something a man is doing.  If your deal is that you cook and he cleans, then he will either need to clean this up or you do not cook. What would he say if he simply had no food for a few days? Do NOT let him eat out while waiting for you to cook again.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Janeway

[QueenCat]

One option would be to find a different job that you normally do for him to do, especially if he'd be more likely to do it.

The only things we handwash are knives, Tervis cups, and pots/pans that are not non-stick. 

[J-rap]

I'm sorry ~ this sounds very frustrating.  And I'm sorry about the depression.  Does your dh say why he doesn't wash the dishes?

Is his week so busy that by evening he doesn't have energy, so he puts the dishes aside assuming he'll catch up the next morning?  If so, what does he do the rest of the evening?  Does he ever offer an explanation ("I'm sorry, this will have to wait til tomorrow -- I'm really exhausted!")?

I think it's not unusual for a couple during their busiest years of working and child-raising to go through more times of tension than usual, by the way.  

Can you sit down and work out a solution with your dh together?  Such as, if he knows he's going to have a very busy week and lack energy to help around the house, he should let you know, and you can plan to do take-out, frozen dinners, and paper plates on those days.  He needs to step up and talk to you about this and help problem-solve.  Does he typically put-off problems or avoid talking about them?  It sounds like it would be helpful to be in couples counseling, not just you-counseling, with a focus on communication.  

He may or may not have a good reason for not washing the dishes, but if he isn't communicating this to you and helping come up with a solution, that's a problem.  

During our busiest years, I sometimes put off cleaning dishes for a full day, but our kitchen wouldn't have allowed any longer than that!  I don't know how you'd even pile up 5-days of dirty dishes in a kitchen!  But for one day, I'd at least feel better about scraping them and setting them in the sink so that the counters still looks clean. 

One thing that helped for me was to have the dishwasher emptied.  If the dishwasher was emptied already, then it felt so much easier to start loading it, even when I was tired.  If it was full, then it felt like one extra step that suddenly made everything feel a little overwhelming!  Perhaps you don't have a dishwasher.  (We didn't for the first 10 years of our marriage.)

Can kids help?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, marbel said:

I prefer dishes go in the sink rather than sit on the counter, because I have very little counter space. But it is rare that things sit in the sink very long because, yes, I need the sink often, but also, things generally go right in the dishwasher. If the dishwasher is full, it's running, and so a few things might sit in the sink till that's done and emptied. Things that don't go in the dishwasher are just washed. Occasionally there are exceptions, but I don't have small kids so cleanup is quicker and not hindered by evening activities. 

When we have guests, I put a dishpan on the counter for dishes, but I generally ask people not to help beyond taking their plates to it, because they don't know what to do and mess me up. I actually prefer they just leave their plates and such anyway and let my people and me do the cleaning. They are guests, not staff. But that's a losing battle because people are conditioned to listen to their mother's voice telling them how to be a good guest, and not the actual host's voice asking them to enjoy themselves and leave the kitchen to me.  But this is off the OP.

I have no clue why anyone would think it's helpful to rinse a dirty item and put it on the counter. 

I hope the OP is getting some help from this thread. Cooking, eating, and the cleanup that results are such fundamental parts of living, it's terrible when it's fraught. 

To the bolded! Thank you, me either! I guess Dh doesn’t like them in the sink at times like we are waiting for the dishwasher to finish up.  My thinking is if it bothers you so much then wash them !  Don’t just rinse and then put dirty dishes with dirty water on my counter.  Ugh.

But anyway, Dh and I have this worked out and he cleans a lot and cooks a lot so I just go with it.  

[Scarlett]

I absolutely do not recommend any of the retaliatory options mentioned by a few on this thread.  
 

A calm discussion explaining to him that you realize he is sorry about the fight and thanks but also this situation with dishes left for days is not working for you and something has to change.

Ultimately, if nothing changes, I would do the dishes myself before bed.  It may increase your workload and it may not be fair, but my peace is worth a lot of trade offs.  

[Wheres Toto]

I thought this was going to be one of those -give a slight eyeroll at someone who doesn't want dishes in their sink for even an hour- things since I tend to have WAY lower standards than many on here.   But 5-7 days is a lot.   

We have a single sink and only about 2 1/2 feet of counter space next to the sink that is between the sink and the stove.  The other side of the sink is a wall.     My kids do the dishes every day except Sunday but don't do the handwash stuff, Sundays I do the dishes (usually, dh sometimes does) and the handwash stuff, but dh will wash the handwash stuff if he needs one (he does all the cooking).  Our handwash is basically limited to decent, non stick cookware so really isn't hard to wash and aren't the things that need to soak.  

So we almost always have dishes in the sink during the day since the kids don't do them until after dinner (8pm).   I tried encouraging them to empty it earlier so things could be put in directly but that didn't work.     The handwash pots/pans are generally left on the stove until they get washed.   Things that need to soak are left at most overnight before being stuck in the dishwasher, but usually only soak until the kids do the dishes and put them in the dishwasher.    We may have things sit a day or two if the kids can't fit them in the dishwasher (then dh will usually "assist" with getting bigger items in).

Dh doesn't have huge standards for housework, neither do I, but the one thing he wants is the dishes washed before he cooks dinner.    He's okay with the few dishes from breakfast/lunch being in the sink when he's cooking dinner.    Would telling your husband you need the dishes washed before you cook help at all?

Or maybe another posters suggestion to switch another job so that you do the dishes and he does something that won't cause so many issues. 

[Ginevra]

20 hours ago, Terabith said:

My child's bedroom?  By the couch?  I'm constantly kinda going, "Soooo....where are all the glasses?" and kids going, "Oh yeah, I'll get them."

Represent! 
 

Since my youngest went off to college, I have discovered we, in fact, *do* have enough glasses, bowls and spoons. 

[Teaching3bears]

Do you have a dishwasher?

How many people are currently in your household?  
If it is just you and your DH, 5 days of dirty dishes might equal 2 days for a big family.

I tend to wash dishes after every meal, leaving some dirty dishes overnight at most if there is no way to get to them.  It takes about 2 minutes after each meal with a dishwasher.  It takes 5 minutes at most to unload the dishwasher.  
I would get extremely depressed if there were 5 days of dirty dishes on my counter!  No therapy would help with that!  
You need to wash the dishes.  It doesn’t sound like your DH is going to do it.  Can he do the cooking? Or, another task?  How is the split of your chores (taking into account things like work outside the home, child rearing, homeschooling, care of elderly family members and chronic illness)?

[EKS]

In our house, hand washed items that are used during the day (i.e. not dinner) are washed immediately by the person who used them.  At diinner, they are washed either by me as I use them while making dinner or by the person who is doing the dishes that night immediately after dinner.  When it's just my husband and me here (as in, no adult children are home), I wash the dishes after dinner.  That incentivizes me to wash as many dishes as I can during the prep, and it also means that the counter and sink get cleaned properly (or if they don't, it's my fault).

Usually the clean up after dinner takes less than 10 minutes.  My husband clears the table, puts stuff away, and prepares the coffee for the next morning while I do the dishes.

Edited October 22, 2023 by EKS

[Pam in CT]

Oh dear. No.

 

I am NOT a super fastidious cleaner by any stretch of anyone's imagination; we have piles of books and papers and half-completed projects all over the house. But in the working area of the kitchen, no.

I also do 95% of the cooking, and the rule has always been that the folks who don't cook, clean; and now that the kids are mostly launched that mostly means that my husband cleans. And his standard is not my standard -- he doesn't wipe down counters, he does not scrub out the sink, he nearly always leaves the CLEAN pots and pans lying around on the counter on a dishtowel "to dry" rather than drying them and putting them away; he occasionally leaves a pot or lasagna dish in the sink "to soak" rather than actually dealing with it.  Eyeroll stuff.  Slightly annoying when I'm otherwise inclined toward irritation, but 95% of the time I just wipe, scrub, put the pots away, all of which collectively takes < 2 minutes.

 

But dirty dishes for 3+ days? An unusable sink chronically filled with cold gray dirty water with a film of floating flotsam on top and gross pots lurking beneath?  No.

I literally could not START cooking a subsequent meal with the kitchen in that state. And, I emphatically repeat: I am NOT fastidious by any stretch of anyone's imagination.

 

I would not START with the sandwiches and paper plates thing; by a certain slant of light, without prior discussion or forewarning, that COULD feel passive aggressive from his perspective.  I would START by 100% cleaning everything up and IMMEDIATELY having a clear discussion that would include what **for me** would be the essentials:

1. This is what a "cleaned up" kitchen looks like
2. If the kitchen doesn't look more-or-less like this, I feel overwhelmed and stressed and demoralized
3. When I'm overwhelmed and stressed and demoralized I can't function well
4. Including facing the next meal.

If the gross returns, I would THEN consider steps like the sandwiches and paper plates thing.  (There is still, IMO, a passive aggressive risk to that route, but, OTOH, 3+ days of dirty dishes and an unusable sink resulting in a marital experiment of who will break down and do it first is, also, arguably passive aggressive.  Hugs.)

I would also, personally, consider a different distribution of tasks, particularly if there's something else you're doing that you loathe / postpone / do half-assedly, that perhaps he could take on.  I was so irritated by my husband's bad laundry habits, which nearly-always entailed my re-doing mildewed smelly grossness that had sat around wet too long, that I took on 100% of it and he takes my car in for checkups and repairs and renewals, and we're both happier. I dislike laundry but I DO it on a timely basis whereas I was not getting my oil changed regularly and I was NEVER vacuuming it out.

[annandatje]

We store them in dishwasher.  If you do not have dishwasher (or even if you do), wash them as you use them, especially pots and pans.  Of course, this is an added task for you.  Short of telling husband that leaving dirty dishes out is not negotiable (my top choice), you could buy paper or disposable plastic plates, bowls, glasses and cutlery.  Hope you find resolution that works for all members of household.

[marbel]

1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

his standard is not my standard

As often happens, Pam's post got me thinking, and I kept coming back to this little bit.  What do we do when two adults in the house have different standards in areas that are shared?  I am not really interested in training my adult husband to do things that he can do, but doesn't do to my standard. He will neglect to dry off the counter if it gets wet. He knows how evaporation works and thus knows it will dry (I'm not talking about puddles). I on the other hand can't stand to walk up to a counter that is the least bit wet. So I dry it off. Sometimes dramatically, but not usually. I'm the one whose standard includes leaving hand-washed dishes to dry in a drainer. For whatever reason, he prefers to dry them and put them away. He doesn't try to impose his standard on me, but if he sees the drainer stacking up, he'll dry the things and put them in their correct place, sometimes after confirming with me what the correct place is. And that's why I don't impose rules like "whoever cooks, doesn't clean" because I don't see that working well for me. Because of different standards. 

Now I imagine people will talk about "weaponized incompetence" and I won't deny that that's a thing. But there is also this difference of standards. In the most perfect world, all inhabitants of a house would have the same standards of cleanliness, clutteredness, and even decor. But it doesn't always ((if ever) work that way.  Which is why I generally handle all the kitchen work. Of course I have tried to train my children to my highest standard, which by the way would be lower than many of yours, but whether or not they carry on with that is out of my control.

This doesn't address the problem of dirty dishes left for multiple days, of course. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by marbel

[Pam in CT]

re differing standards of how a job "should" be done

6 minutes ago, marbel said:

As often happens, Pam's post got me thinking, and I kept coming back to this little bit.  What do we do when two adults in the house have different standards in areas that are shared?  I am not really interested in training my adult husband to do things that he can do, but doesn't to do my standard. He will neglect to dry off the counter if it gets wet. He knows how evaporation works and thus knows it will dry (I'm not talking about puddles). I on the other hand can't stand to walk up to a counter that is the least bit wet. So I dry it off. Sometimes dramatically, but not usually. I'm the one whose standard includes leaving hand-washed dishes to dry in a drainer. For whatever reason, he prefers to dry them and put them away. He doesn't try to impose his standard on me, but if he sees the drainer stacking up, he'll dry the things and put them in their correct place, sometimes after confirming with me what the correct place is. And that's why I don't impose rules like "whoever cooks, doesn't clean" because I don't see that working well for me. Because of different standards. 

Now I imagine people will talk about "weaponized incompetence" and I won't deny that that's a thing. But there is also this difference of standards. In the most perfect world, all inhabitants of a house would have the same standards of cleanliness, clutteredness, and even decor. But it doesn't always ((if ever) work that way.  Which is why I generally handle all the kitchen work. Of course I have tried to train my children to my highest standard, which by the way would be lower than many of yours, but whether or not they carry on with that is out of my control.

This doesn't address the problem of dirty dishes left for multiple days, of course. 

Agreed.

While my husband's standard for "clean up the kitchen" and mine aren't the same, they are within shouting distance, eyeroll distance, not-a-big-deal distance.  (and as an aside, I dunno that I'm even in full concurrence that

Quote

...In the most perfect world, all inhabitants of a house would have the same standards of cleanliness, clutteredness, and even decor...

as when I try to shift off my personal POV to "the balcony" or "the view from nowhere", I'm not really convinced that (forex) there's a "right" answer to air-drying vs dishtowel-drying the dishes, or fastidiously sorting socks vs just buying loads or identical pairs and leaving them all loose in a basket, or having piles of half-read books on every side table vs scooping them up and putting away half-read, or any number of other differences in style that seem to me ultimately to boil down just to different weights to different values, which most of the time on most of the differences is among the ways in which our world is delightful and interesting rather than monolithic and dull... but aside...)

 

 

But back on topic, OTOH,

If the standards are TOO far apart -- "eh, I'll get around to it in a day or two, or five" ; while the other person is stewing with resentment, tensions are festering, silent marital "who will cave first" experiments are being conducted... that's not sustainable.

[SanDiegoMom]

Everyone has different standards and what some people think of as "disgusting" and "gross" is what other people might be only capable of doing at the time.  I don't prioritize a perfectly clean home and it is very common for me to leave a pot up to two days filled with water until I get around to cleaning it.  I don't see what's so disgusting -- it cleans up, I clean the sink right after, it's all good?  Sometimes I want to spend time with my teenage kids and then I work all day the next day, but it gets done eventually.  I guess I got a little "triggered" reading all the judgement, lol. 

Four to five days would mean something else is going on, and if it happens regularly I would honestly just ask to change chores around -- see if he can take care of a different chore and just take over the dishes from then on. 

My husband doesn't really ever do the dishes, or cook, or clean.  But we just came in from digging holes in the yard for some giant plants and let me tell you, I was very grateful he kept sending me away to do the smaller jobs -- he is much better suited to digging a two foot by two foot hole in rocky compacted soil.  He has remodeled our bathroom, our fireplace, our bar area, and paints the tallest ceilings.  I am very happy in return to do all the chores around the house:) 

 

[Pam in CT]

re priorities

20 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

Everyone has different standards and what some people think of as "disgusting" and "gross" is what other people might be only capable of doing at the time.  I don't prioritize a perfectly clean home and it is very common for me to leave a pot up to two days filled with water until I get around to cleaning it.  I don't see what's so disgusting -- it cleans up, I clean the sink right after, it's all good?  Sometimes I want to spend time with my teenage kids and then I work all day the next day, but it gets done eventually.  I guess I got a little "triggered" reading all the judgement, lol. ...

 

I don't prioritize a perfectly clean home either, and there's no problem at all **if there's no problem** with the other members in the household who are sharing the space.  If everyone using the kitchen is OK with managing around the status quo, and no one is grossed out or simmering with resentment or too demoralized to face food preparation or whatever... then the status quo is fine, it makes not difference if other households do it differently.

That is not the OP case. In the OP's case, there IS a problem with another person sharing the kitchen.

 

re just taking the task on / exchanging for a different task

20 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

...Four to five days would mean something else is going on, and if it happens regularly I would honestly just ask to change chores around -- see if he can take care of a different chore and just take over the dishes from then on. 

My husband doesn't really ever do the dishes, or cook, or clean.  But we just came in from digging holes in the yard for some giant plants and let me tell you, I was very grateful he kept sending me away to do the smaller jobs -- he is much better suited to digging a two foot by two foot hole in rocky compacted soil.  He has remodeled our bathroom, our fireplace, our bar area, and paints the tallest ceilings.  I am very happy in return to do all the chores around the house:) 

 

Right.

When the big picture is reasonably balanced, the small stuff registers proportionately.  Dopey little stuff reads as... dopey little stuff. And when communication is reasonably good, big picture cracks can be addressed before they widen into cosmic chasms.

When one person in a relationship is desolate and/or simmering with rage, the big picture is not reasonably balanced. And one person can't fix the big picture (as opposed to little stuff) unilaterally. Communication is needed.

 

[kathyl]

2 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

re priorities

I don't prioritize a perfectly clean home either, and there's no problem at all **if there's no problem** with the other members in the household who are sharing the space.  If everyone using the kitchen is OK with managing around the status quo, and no one is grossed out or simmering with resentment or too demoralized to face food preparation or whatever... then the status quo is fine, it makes not difference if other households do it differently.

......

 

Yes, this. 

I can handle a less than perfectly cleaned kitchen.  What I can't handle is trying to cook with ants crawling on the counter, in the sink, and making a beeline for my ingredients as I'm trying to cook.  I'm just thankful we don't have roaches. 

I was pretty distressed about this at the beginning of ant season.  But then I realized there really is a simple solution.  I get takeout.  So I spent most of the summer cleaning and cooking when I could, but also getting a lot of takeout for myself.  Dh doesn't care about the ants, so he cooked his own food at home and ate that.  This probably isn't a permanent solution, but I have all winter to come up with something better.

I can understand why my dh is the way he is.  We had only been married a short time when I went to help clean up the dishes in his parents' house.  The sink was full of dirty dishes and when I picked up a dish from the sink, a bunch of those giant SC roaches went scurrying away.  In the middle of the day no less.  That was their (and my dh's) 'normal'.  But that was not MY normal.  And I don't want it to become my normal because it's downright unsanitary.  To me, it's a health issue.

[SKL]

Someone asked why a person would rinse but not wash a dish.

It reminded me that sometimes, what stops me from just washing things right away is a full drying rack.  Once I noticed that, I started trying to put away the clean dishes as soon as I have a chance so there's always room for the next batch of washed dishes.  🙂

I also think the person who cooks should soak the cooking items as soon as s/he's done cooking (if practical).  It makes the washing so much easier.  And things that are quick & easy are likely to get done sooner.

[SKL]

For those who get ants:  try Terro.  The ants will be gone within a few days.

When I occasionally get ants, it has nothing to do with my kitchen being unclean.  But yeah, it's that much grosser if there are a million ants running around when you go to wash the dishes, or cook, etc..  (I hate ants to an irrational degree.)

[Clarita]

44 minutes ago, SKL said:

For those who get ants:  try Terro.  The ants will be gone within a few days.

When I occasionally get ants, it has nothing to do with my kitchen being unclean.  But yeah, it's that much grosser if there are a million ants running around when you go to wash the dishes, or cook, etc..  (I hate ants to an irrational degree.)

Ants by my house I guess have a lot of things to eat. When they come through my house they are 80% of the time just made their home under my house and happen to make a path into my house. (I don't know what this says about my cooking but I've had ants make paths right past my food stuffs. Although no matter what they will make a beeline for the cat food.) Apparently the ants we have seasonally move so having ants doesn't mean you keep a dirty house, it just means their current temporary home is close to or under your house. I put out some terro which they like so they just go for that until they move away again. 

We actually reduced our ant problems by moving fruiting trees/bushes away from the house. Not necessary fruiting for humans but fruiting in general. Then planted edible plants away from the house. We also installed artificial turf. I haven't read anything that says doing these things are proven ways to mitigate ant issues but they have for our home.

[kathyl]

I've put out many Terro baits and even that didn't work.  I think it's partially that they are all around the outside and there is some way they're getting inside.  We had a pest service for a little while, but I really hate gardening in all the chemicals they put out.  I'll figure it out eventually.  

[Bootsie]

I can commiserate.  DH is a soaker and stacker.  And he unloads the dishwasher--with anything that was the least bit wet taken out of the dishwasher and set on the counter, along with anything he doesn't know where it belongs.  He refuses to fill a sink with soapy water to wash dishes; he turns on the water full force and holds one dish at a time under the running water (and he half-way washes each dish this way before putting it in the dishwasher--leaving the water running as he moves about the kitchen to put each dish in the dishwasher.  I cringe thinking about the wasted water.  He doesn't have any priority of washing less messy things first, doesn't empty the sink before he begins "washing" and doesn't put food scraps in the trash or down the disposal--they just accumulate in the sink along with wet dish cloths and soaking dishes that don't go in the dishwasher (the only thing that successfully makes it down the garbage disposal is spoons).  He will tell me that he "cleaned up the kitchen" and I can go in the kitchen and I cannot find 12 square inches of counter space.  

This has been a constant source of frustration, aggraviation, irritation... in our almost 30 years of marriage.  It is difficult for me because I find a messy kitchestressful and sanitary food prep is a must.  And, I enjoy cooking, so I find it annoying to come into the kitchen and find that my favorite tools have not been cared for properly.  It isn't that the kitchen is simply shared work space that we need to coexist and "work" in; it is a place where I want to do things for enjoyment--but I can't just say "this is my hobby--KEEP OUT!"   

Some things that I have found over the years that help:  a good dishwasher; my unloading the dishwasher as soon as possible; labeling the cabinets of where items are to be returned (including tracing the bottom of the pots and pans on the bottom of cabinets and drawers); designating a certain are of the ktichen countertop as a work area wear nothing can be set down; throwing away any sponges that come into the house; cleaning up as much as possible as I cook and making sure the work area is as clutter free as possible when DH begins to "clean up".  A nice drying rack also comes in handy, so that I know what has been washed (so I can put it away) and what is simply soaking.  When I am very busy and extra-stressed, I will let the kitchen go for several days and try not to think about it and then will go in with a deep clean once I have time.

II have also found certain kitchen setups make things worse.  We lived in a house with the sink on a wide peninsula with bar seating--it was the worst!  Dirty dishes and clean dishes, dish clothes, puddles... all over the area all of the time.  There was no backsplash or containment area.  I our current house the sink is awful; the bowls are small and slanted--so much that a water glass does not even sit straight on the bottom of the sink.  

[Clarita]

3 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I can commiserate.  DH is a soaker and stacker.  And he unloads the dishwasher--with anything that was the least bit wet taken out of the dishwasher and set on the counter, along with anything he doesn't know where it belongs.  He refuses to fill a sink with soapy water to wash dishes; he turns on the water full force and holds one dish at a time under the running water (and he half-way washes each dish this way before putting it in the dishwasher--leaving the water running as he moves about the kitchen to put each dish in the dishwasher.  I cringe thinking about the wasted water.  He doesn't have any priority of washing less messy things first, doesn't empty the sink before he begins "washing" and doesn't put food scraps in the trash or down the disposal--they just accumulate in the sink along with wet dish cloths and soaking dishes that don't go in the dishwasher (the only thing that successfully makes it down the garbage disposal is spoons).  He will tell me that he "cleaned up the kitchen" and I can go in the kitchen and I cannot find 12 square inches of counter space.  

This has been a constant source of frustration, aggraviation, irritation... in our almost 30 years of marriage.  It is difficult for me because I find a messy kitchestressful and sanitary food prep is a must.  And, I enjoy cooking, so I find it annoying to come into the kitchen and find that my favorite tools have not been cared for properly.  It isn't that the kitchen is simply shared work space that we need to coexist and "work" in; it is a place where I want to do things for enjoyment--but I can't just say "this is my hobby--KEEP OUT!" 

My DH would blow a gasket at your DH. Leaving the dishes dirty whether or not he puts them in the dishwasher is better than what he's doing. If he argues with you tell him this https://www.countryliving.com/home-maintenance/cleaning/a35906/stop-prerinsing-dishes/.

[Heartstrings]

3 hours ago, Clarita said:

My DH would blow a gasket at your DH. Leaving the dishes dirty whether or not he puts them in the dishwasher is better than what he's doing. If he argues with you tell him this https://www.countryliving.com/home-maintenance/cleaning/a35906/stop-prerinsing-dishes/.

That’s what the heavy duty  option is for.   I’ll use that if dishes sit overnight and have dried stuff on them.   

[LuvToRead]

I am one who requires rinsing vessels before leaving on the counter.  I am easily disgusted by milk and I don't want to see a splash of milk left in a cereal bowl or glass.    We don't normally rinse plates first, though.  Just cups and bowls, and the inside part only, not the bottom so standing water on the counter isn't an issue.  

The reason I don't like stuff left in the sink is a mother issue.  My mom left (and still leaves) stuff soaking in the sink.  She will fill the sink with hot soapy water and just put all the dishes in and leave them.  Not wash one, or maybe just one she needs right away.  I grew up with this and so now I can't tolerate dirty dishes stacked in a sink.   It is definitely a "me" thing!!

[Scarlett]

7 hours ago, Clarita said:

My DH would blow a gasket at your DH. Leaving the dishes dirty whether or not he puts them in the dishwasher is better than what he's doing. If he argues with you tell him this https://www.countryliving.com/home-maintenance/cleaning/a35906/stop-prerinsing-dishes/.

Not all dishwashers are created equal.  My current  one and the one in the house before this were almost useless……I do a lot of rinsing and scrubbing before I put in the dishwasher.  I know from experience with these dishwashers the dishes will not be clean if I don’t. 

[Scarlett]

Since this thread started I did notice we leave some things in the sink maybe for the whole day.  We definitely rinse them out and so food or milk doesn’t get stuck on before they get washed.  We are empty nesters and for instance yesterday we did not cook….we ate out a lunch and heated up leftovers for supper.  So there are a couple of bowls and several glasses in the sink that I will take care of this morning.  
 

It is the cooking a meal and the dirty stove top and dirty counter tops and dirty dishes stacked all over that I can not tolerate.  
 

As someone mentioned we all have different standards and different ways of doing things.  Dh is so good to clean the kitchen after I cook and he does a good job but he never cleans the stove. That is the first thing I do when I clean a kitchen. That way after I wash a skillet I can set it on a clean stove.  But  I now know he will not clean it and if that is all I have to do well that is good.
 

But what is going on with @bolt. I think we all agree is too much.  I hope she is ok since she has not come back to this thread.   

[dsmith]

The only time we may have dirty dishes that aren't washed after a meal is if we are having a really large dinner, like Thanksgiving for example. I will wash what I can after the meal, take a break, wash some more, and if there are still a lot left, I will soak some in the sink overnight. Others will stay to the left of the sink. They are washed as soon as I get up in the morning. I will occasionally leave a pot soaking overnight, either in the sink or on the counter to the left of the sink. There are never dirty dishes after that, ever. If dishes were my husband's responsibility and he didn't do them, I would probably do them the next morning. But he would never leave them for days. Nobody in the house would.

[SKL]

Based on some of my life experiences, I'm not convinced it's always fair for one person to cook and the other person to clean afterwards.  I have certain associates who are just gross when they cook.  Spilling sauces etc. onto the stove and then they get cooked on, grease dripping down the front/sides/insides of the stove, severely burnt dishes, dried on goop everywhere, "clean" dishes pulled out and left out to get dirty despite not being used ... just a total lack of awareness / consideration / common sense.  I don't know how common this is and am not suggesting anyone here would do that.  But I find that people will be more careful about how they cook if they know they have to clean after themselves.

I prefer one person to cook & clean on alternate days. But with work schedules etc., I suppose that can't always work.  However, it may be reasonable to have certain tasks belong to the person cooking that day ... such as wiping off the stove and soaking the dishes.

Edited October 23, 2023 by SKL

[fairfarmhand]

My dh and I do not have this deal at all. In fact, I am the person who does 99% of the dishes and kitchen cleaning. As far as dishes and cleanup, I don't care. I like it that way because I'm picky and nobody has ever been able to do it to my standards except for my dd21. (dd25 probably can now that she has her own home, but not when she lived here) 

But, one thing that I do have people do is take care of their own messes. If you got out the mustard and cold cuts, put them away. Stack your dirties in the sink and I'll get them cleaned after supper. If you spill, wipe it up. etc. 

 

[marbel]

It seems like over the past few (?) years the idea that the cook doesn't clean has become sort of a standard of "fairness" for a lot of people. I mean that's just an observation I've made from talking to people, reading blogs, etc.  I know I said before in this thread that I don't subscribe to that view.  

1 hour ago, SKL said:

But I find that people will be more careful about how they cook if they know they have to clean after themselves.

I agree, but also... who is deciding what to cook? Some things are quick and simple and easy to clean up after. Some things require multiple bowls, pans, etc. I just tried a new recipe that had me using two bowls, nearly all my measuring cups, several spoons, a sauce pan... and later there will be a baking pan to wash. Oh and I still have to make the glaze.  Plus, I can be messy. I have a dearth of working space on my counters and sometimes things are crammed and I spill. I try to be careful, but yeah. 

Really not "fair" to tell another person to clean up after this debacle. Even though I expect they will love it, I am the one who decided to make it. As I am the one who decides 90% of our meals. 

Oh and I do clean as I go, as the process allows.  But still. 

ETA: But of course if it works, it works. I'm sure it does for some people.  But I think some people don't really give it a lot of thought; it just sounds good so they make the rule.  Again, my observations only!

Obligatory recipe link:  https://www.halfbakedharvest.com/brown-butter-apple-blondies/

Edited October 23, 2023 by marbel

[pitterpatter]

For the most part, DH and I share all duties of cooking and cleaning up afterward most days. If he grills, I work on the things he's not...like setting the table, slicing fruit, tending whatever might be on the stove. Then, we both clean up afterward. We just work on whatever needs to be put away or cleaned until it's all done. (DD does some too, but she's the slowest eater, so she usually ends up just cleaning up her own spot.) We do rotate cleaning the pans. When I do most of the cooking, he washes the pans (and usually puts the dishes in the washer) while I complete the easier tasks. When he cooks, I do the pans. Having said that, I'm the type of cook who cleans as she goes. When I'm finished with a pan, it quickly gets sprayed with soap and squirted with water so the food doesn't harden. Many times, I have time to wash the pans completely while waiting on other food.

Now, I do get stuck with DH "soaking" some of the particularly bad pans (usually from cooking soups and stews) from time to time, but I totally call him on it. I will typically clean it, but I'll let him know that I cleaned his pan. I try to do this in a fun-loving way. (Unless I know he was having a rough morning or whatever, then I'll let it slide without a word.) He does try, overall.

I also typically get stuck with dumping leftover casseroles. etc. from the fridge and cleaning those containers. I know he would help if I asked, but I usually don't bother him with it. Sometimes on the weekends, we do clean out the leftovers and wash those dishes together.

I generally agree with others, though. I can't stand grody dishes standing longer than a few hours to overnight at the most. You might try thinking of a new routine that might work better for both of you. Maybe some new products too. I've fallen in love with Dawn Platinum Powerwash Dish Spray and a pack of sponges. We don't immerse most of our pans. We spray and wash with a sponge. (Usually a couple of times.) Then, rinse and put them on the drying rack for a couple hours. 

[pitterpatter]

Right! When either DH or I make something that's messy or takes a lot bowls, etc. when the other person isn't really on board, then it's the maker's responsibility to deal with it all. Having said that, most of the time, we still help each other out in some way just because it's the nice thing to do. Now, if I'm making something messy and/or labor intensive because DH wants me to, he's totally expected to help with cleanup. He understands the time and labor involved and usually does all cleanup right-away as a thank you. Or, at least as much as he can.

12 minutes ago, marbel said:

I agree, but also... who is deciding what to cook? Some things are quick and simple and easy to clean up after. Some things require multiple bowls, pans, etc. I just tried a new recipe that had me using two bowls, nearly all my measuring cups, several spoons, a sauce pan... and later there will be a baking pan to wash. Oh and I still have to make the glaze.  Plus, I can be messy. I have a dearth of working space on my counters and I spill. I try to be careful, but yeah. 

Really not "fair" to tell another person to clean up after this debacle. Even though I expect they will love it, I am the one who decided to make it. As I am the one who decides 90% of our meals. 

Oh and I do clean as I go, as the process allows.  But still.

 

[Kanin]

I agree that the one cooks/one cleans thing is not always fair. If I make something that uses tons of pots, specialty tools, etc and there's a mountain of dishes, that's a whole different story than a meal that was reheated soup and bread. The cook is the one who controls the amount of dishes, so if I don't want to deal with a big mess, I'll cook something simpler.

As far as dishes go, DH empties the dishwasher and drying rack. He also puts the "easy" things in the dishwasher - things that don't need to be scrubbed much. We came to this agreement after I realized he would never keep up with the dishes the way I wanted, and it was constantly making me mad. I think our current arrangement not very equitable, but I'm less mad... so it's good enough for now.

[Pam in CT]

I don't think it matters what the distribution-of-tasks deal is, any more than it matters what the precise details of a particular household's "cleanliness standard" is. What matters is whether everyone in the household is more-or-less content with the household compact, whether that compact is explicit or de facto (itself a matter that differs by household, which again, fine... so long as it's fine).

Whatever the distribution of roles and tasks and habits, and however photo shoot-ready or not the household is... if everyone sharing the space and the tasks is more or less OK most of the time, it's sustainable and healthy and "fair" (or fair enough).

 

If OTOH a member of the household is being rendered too stressed/overwhelmed to function, or too festering with resentment to prevent spillage into other elements of the relationship, or etc. ... then readjustments to the compact are needed. And that entails communication.

[pitterpatter]

Yup! I hate dealing with the coffee pot, but I make sure that the coffee grounds are emptied, the pot rinsed, and the reservoir filled with water every week day evening so that DH can have a good start to each day. And usually as a reward, a travel mug of coffee fixed to my liking is waiting on the counter for me each morning. It's not an equal division of tasks, but it makes us both a little happier.

14 minutes ago, Kanin said:

I agree that the one cooks/one cleans thing is not always fair. If I make something that uses tons of pots, specialty tools, etc and there's a mountain of dishes, that's a whole different story than a meal that was reheated soup and bread. The cook is the one who controls the amount of dishes, so if I don't want to deal with a big mess, I'll cook something simpler.

As far as dishes go, DH empties the dishwasher and drying rack. He also puts the "easy" things in the dishwasher - things that don't need to be scrubbed much. We came to this agreement after I realized he would never keep up with the dishes the way I wanted, and it was constantly making me mad. I think our current arrangement not very equitable, but I'm less mad... so it's good enough for now.

[Heartstrings]

I don’t soak dishes most of the time.  The first thing I do is put water and soap in the pans and put them on the heat to boil while I clean the rest of the kitchen then wash those last.  That usually takes care of it.  

[bolt.]

Thank you for all the responses everyone!

I was reading along since I posted the first post, but it was really hard, and I couldn't figure out how to respond. My feelings have been bouncing around like a pinball, and I simultaneously feel like giving up -and- like being retaliatory and passive-aggressive.

It seems, in answer to my question, that most of you don't choose to even try to function in a chore system that involves anyone else doing the dishes. Thank you. I know those are honest answers to my actual question of, "What do you do in your home about this?" At times, those answers really felt a lot like what my DH said when he was angry, "If you don't like it, do it yourself." -- which made me very angry when he said it. I don't understand how, if one worker doesn't do their job, and their co-worker notices and is annoyed, it's right for it then to just shift over become the second person's job. That feels like a lose-lose perspective: either I find more patience, or I do more work. (But I recognize that analysis is classic black-and-white thinking, which means it's probably an error... but I can't find the error in it right now.)

Many of you suggested re-negotiating the household responsibilities. That might have promise, but right now I'm only seeing roadblocks. DH has a chronic illness, and he works a demanding job full-time-plus on a daily basis. He already does, it seems to me, virtually nothing of a household nature besides dishes, cat boxes, trash and his personal laundry. It already doesn't seem fair, If we remove dishes from his responsibilities, I'm not sure I could do anything other than feel like a maid/housewife from the 1950s. That may be negativity bias. I'm not sure. Can some of you share with me examples of division-of-labour that seem actually fair? If your spouses aren't doing dishes, what do they do instead? Should I really just consider the option of saying, "A working man is working hard enough, and nothing should be expected of him at home."?

I don't think the actual dishes are making me depressed. We don't have ants, and if they aren't in the sink wet, they don't stink or seem gross to me. The irritation only really begins when, after maybe 3 or 4 days there's just a lot of them taking up space, and I begin to run out of space to cook and things to cook in. The significant relationship friction happens when I try to politely mention that it's getting beyond my tolerances and I hope he can attend to it soon -- and somehow it all gets turned around and he is angry at me for "complaining". It's like I have no right to expect more (when my expectations are so minimal already) and no right to care whether or not he lives up to the responsibilities he has committed himself to.

And the thing is, I'm okay with helping out with his responsibilities from time to time. I'm understanding, and kind, and I love this guy. If he just said, "Hon, the dishes have gotten away from me. I'm sorry. Would you help by doing a load while I'm at work?" -- I totally would! But somehow he reads my determination to respect his areas of responsibility and not just spontaneously "help" any time there's a "problem" means I'm doing something wrong, and I'm being unkind and demanding. The thing is though, that there's always at least a small dish problem and if I "help" anytime I notice dishes, I'd be doing them full time. If a person wants help, I'll help them: but they need to at least own their own area of responsibility enough to *ask* me to step in.

I have a therapy appointment for Thursday, just for me. I don't quite know what to say about couple's therapy. I don't think DH would like it.

DH did the dishes both Friday night and Sunday night -- which is frequent for him. Maybe he is trying harder too.

[Laura Corin]

@bolt. how much free time do you have compared to your husband? There have been times when I have expected very little help from my spouse and other times when he has expected very little help from me.

[SKL]

Was the original agreement that he does the dishes an agreement that he wholeheartedly participated in?

Would it be a serious problem if you cut back your cooking activities in order that the total amount of work is less for both of you?  Or, what stops you from feeling OK with a choice to cook less?

TBH, as a person who dislikes cooking - especially for kids whose tastes differ greatly from mine - I have managed to do little serious cooking the past 8 years or so.  There are so many other options that are "good enough" and better than fights and resentments - assuming you don't have serious dietary issues to consider in your home.

I am not much use in discussions about division of labor, because I am a single mom.  When you don't have anyone to fight with over chores, you just do them, and it's fine.  Unpopular opinion:  fairness is a mental construct that we might not actually need in every transaction.

[fairfarmhand]

In my doing the dishes, the attitude is less "If you don't like it, do it yourself" and more "I happen to care more about this particular chore, so I will take care of it."

When you negotiated the "I cook, you wash up" was he actually saying "I will be glad to wash up." Or was he saying "I feel obligated that I should wash up since I am an enlightened man who wants to do my part" 

What I'm saying is was his agreement aspirational (maybe he thinks of himself as an equal partner kind of man) and his actuality is more "I would rather change the oil, put gas in the car, and trim the hedges." 

Sometimes, I think we commit ourselves to things because our vision of our selves is significantly different from our reality. And when someone points out that our aspirational self is not who we actually are, we get testy. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by fairfarmhand

[Heartstrings]

56 minutes ago, bolt. said:

It seems, in answer to my question, that most of you don't choose to even try to function in a chore system that involves anyone else doing the dishes. Thank you. I know those are honest answers to my actual question of, "What do you do in your home about this?" At times, those answers really felt a lot like what my DH said when he was angry, "If you don't like it, do it yourself." -- which made me very angry when he said it. I don't understand how, if one worker doesn't do their job, and their co-worker notices and is annoyed, it's right for it then to just shift over become the second person's job. That feels like a lose-lose perspective: either I find more patience, or I do more work. (But I recognize that analysis is classic black-and-white thinking, which means it's probably an error... but I can't find the error in it right now.)

I was one who said that I would just do the dishes myself.  I do 90% of the household work, in a way that is not fair or evenly distributed and my husband helps when asked specifically.  I think your black-and-white analysis is spot on, except that I don't want to blow up my whole family over household work, unlike if a co worker annoyed me.  It's NOT fair and I do resent it at times.  I just decided that either 1) we can divorce, 2) I can get over it, or 3) we can live in misery fighting over all of it and I chose option 2 with some dabbling in option 3.   The same decision many of our mothers and grandmothers made.  Making him do more of the work so things are fair is not possible, I have tried.  I have cried, I have screamed, I have talked rationally.  I can't actually force him to do it though.  So I do more than my fair share and we go on.  

(yes, I do mean 90%. I do the yard work and take the cars to the shop. I organize the garage, I do the budget and the investments. I do all the things men usually point to as their contributions. It's not that I don't "see" the contribution, it really is just that I do the vast majority)

Edited October 23, 2023 by Heartstrings